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matticas
12-13-2016, 02:50 AM
So, is nobody else frustrated (and a little suspicious) at Schifty getting Scout every damn time? Even if he's doing it fairly, is there no regulation on greed?

He's doing turn in, kiting the mob until buyer arrives, then killing mob and selling loot rights. Meanwhile hundreds of players can't afford to buy, just stuck waiting...really taking the fun out of the game, and esp questing.

Notaa
12-13-2016, 03:04 AM
lol that guy accused someone else of cheating because he didn't win the previous turn in, and then proceeded to win, kite, and die to his own kite leaving his customer very upset and angry at all the jerks tryin to do the quest themselves. so that was fun!

Sadiki
12-13-2016, 03:24 AM
is there no regulation on greed?
On P99? It's actually encouraged. See: Raiding

matticas
12-13-2016, 03:45 AM
What's encouraged? Could you be a bit more specific?

matticas
12-13-2016, 03:45 AM
lol that guy accused someone else of cheating because he didn't win the previous turn in, and then proceeded to win, kite, and die to his own kite leaving his customer very upset and angry at all the jerks tryin to do the quest themselves. so that was fun!

That just makes me happy. :)

Meep
12-13-2016, 06:04 AM
"Am I breaking any rules?" - every scumbag on p99

Nitsude
12-13-2016, 06:53 AM
This isnt any different than cock-blocking epics.

Leiker
12-13-2016, 07:59 AM
I know for a fact that some people use multi-click macros and/or autofire to make the Scout Charisa turnin. I wish there was a way for these people to get banned. (If a GM is interested I can tell you how they do it)

I dont mind the same person winning the turnin over and over, nor do I mind them selling it for their own profit, but when they are using 3rd party programs to gain an unfair advantage, the banhammer needs to come down.

Now I dont know if this Schifty dude is using macros, but its suspicious to me when any person repeatedly wins day after day.

Meep
12-13-2016, 08:29 AM
There's something about the winner's name, isn't there

Nexii
12-13-2016, 08:55 AM
I've never understood why this isn't a roll off like ring 8. Yes I know there's no cost to getting scout tools unlike ring 1-7 quests. But at least a roll off would give equal chances.

Nexii
12-13-2016, 09:09 AM
I'm looking to form up a new crew of perhaps 12-14 players who are willing to camp the Commander Leuz spawn in Skyshrine on a rotating shedule of, perhaps, 2-3 hour shifts. Need players from multiple time zones in order to secure a permanent 24 hour presence.

Before you get mad about messing with the Scout Charisa quest, that isn't the goal at all.

This is a legitimate camp that can be done for adventure and good times. When people want to turn in their Scout Charisa quest, and thusly consume the game's content, we will facilitate that experience for a small fee.

With the current blue economy, I'm thinking 30,000 plat is a fair price for Leuz, but I'm open to discussing the financials with interested parties. My primary concern is for fairness, as those camping the spawn in off-hours won't be able to assist as many players as those playing in peak hours. An option might be to log each transaction and split the plat evenly on a weekly basis.

As best I can tell, this is a safe, profitable venture that falls within the rules and culture of this server. There's no difference between this and monopolizing epic quest mobs, or any high value target, for profit and good times.

Leuz is a level 35 mob with 3500 hit points. If you can handle that, you're eligible.

Please PM me with your interest and we can meet up in game to discuss how this is going to work. Looking to get started within a week's time.

Tykain
12-13-2016, 09:38 AM
It's statistically impossible that the same person always win the turn in even when there are 30 other people there doing the same thing unless a 3rd party program is involved to give a significant advantage.
To say it's suspicious is an understatement.

Meep
12-13-2016, 10:02 AM
I've never understood why this isn't a roll off like ring 8. Yes I know there's no cost to getting scout tools unlike ring 1-7 quests. But at least a roll off would give equal chances.

http://i.imgur.com/JlK8eAN.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/JlK8eAN.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/JlK8eAN.gif
http://i.imgur.com/JlK8eAN.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/JlK8eAN.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/JlK8eAN.gif
http://i.imgur.com/JlK8eAN.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/JlK8eAN.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/JlK8eAN.gif

Who cares? Lets all just hoard fake currency ;)

Red_Messiah
12-13-2016, 10:04 AM
Don't like it? FORM A CREW!

trite
12-13-2016, 10:10 AM
It's statistically impossible that the same person always win the turn in even when there are 30 other people there doing the same thing unless a 3rd party program is involved to give a significant advantage.
To say it's suspicious is an understatement.

This would be true if it were random, which it isn't....I do agree that this quest is stupid, too easy for the reward you get...

Alanus
12-13-2016, 10:50 AM
What shocks me is that people are still camping the hell out of it even after all this time

sergan
12-13-2016, 10:53 AM
Not classic but you could change the code : only the player that make the turn can loot the captain, or scout give you an item that you need to back to her with broken disk, no mqable. those are not solutions for programmable mouse / keyboard but almost they cant sell the quest in redguides ....

Alanus
12-13-2016, 10:55 AM
What does he charge for loot rights anyway? I will have to start doing jboot MQs so I can buy it

kaev
12-13-2016, 11:01 AM
It's statistically impossible that the same person always win the turn in even when there are 30 other people there doing the same thing unless a 3rd party program is involved to give a significant advantage.
To say it's suspicious is an understatement.

That's some top quality tinfoil-hattery there. I especially like the use of "statistically impossible", unsupported claims that use words with lots of syllables are the best. Take note people, that's how you lift your conspiracy theory out of the realm of mere whining into the promised land of pure bullshit!

sergan
12-13-2016, 11:05 AM
wake up .... not a cospirancy .... when a player try to trade something with you when you are in the melee, he is giving the coordinates of trade box to her programmable mouse or macromaker program .....

Vallanor
12-13-2016, 11:10 AM
I got a couple turn-ins over the last few weeks and was feeling like a pretty studly Scout slinger. Then I realized I only won because Shfiftyfiver wasn't there...

Whatever he's doing... it's effective.

Boilon
12-13-2016, 11:12 AM
I got a couple turn-ins over the last few weeks as was feeling like a pretty studly Scout slinger. He I realized I only won because Shfiftyfiver wasn't there...

Whatever he's doing... it's effective.

so what you're saying is don't bother unless the known monopolizers aren't there.

Daldaen
12-13-2016, 11:35 AM
#InstanceAllTheContent

supermonk
12-13-2016, 11:37 AM
there are little nuances that will increase your chances of winning, but things like this come down to ping in the end.

Leiker
12-13-2016, 11:42 AM
there are little nuances that will increase your chances of winning, but things like this come down to ping in the end.

Yes, ping and a progammable keyboard.

There is even a guide on how to set it up and do it effectively.

supermonk
12-13-2016, 11:45 AM
Yes, ping and a progammable keyboard.

There is even a guide on how to set it up and do it effectively.

if all things are equal. a guy spamming with 20 ping should theoretically always beat the autofire guy with 30 ping.

Leiker
12-13-2016, 11:46 AM
All things aren't equal though, with a macro you can click 50 times in the time it takes for someone to click once.

Ravager
12-13-2016, 11:51 AM
I know for a fact that some people use multi-click macros and/or autofire to make the Scout Charisa turnin. I wish there was a way for these people to get banned. (If a GM is interested I can tell you how they do it)

I dont mind the same person winning the turnin over and over, nor do I mind them selling it for their own profit, but when they are using 3rd party programs to gain an unfair advantage, the banhammer needs to come down.

Now I dont know if this Schifty dude is using macros, but its suspicious to me when any person repeatedly wins day after day.
Pretty sure this is something the GMs are interested in and it belongs in the Petitions forum with your evidence. Making vague accusations in server chat doesn't get much attention.

supermonk
12-13-2016, 11:51 AM
All things aren't equal though, with a macro you can click 50 times in the time it takes for someone to click once.

that is true, but that guy is still limited by how many times the client registers his clicks if he has higher ping than a legit guy.

Leiker
12-13-2016, 11:56 AM
Yep, I agree - but a legit guy will not be able to reach that limit at all.

Pretty sure this is something the GMs are interested in and it belongs in the Petitions forum with your evidence. Making vague accusations in server chat doesn't get much attention.

The accusation is vague because I dont want to encourage this kind of behavior by posting the "How-to"
That being said, I will take your advice and post it in the petition forum.

fadetree
12-13-2016, 12:05 PM
Post the how to in Petitions forum.

supermonk
12-13-2016, 12:49 PM
Pretty sure this is something the GMs are interested in and it belongs in the Petitions forum with your evidence. Making vague accusations in server chat doesn't get much attention.

there was an identical issue with ragefire a long time ago involving Catherin to which he casually admitted to using autofire. I think he was banned 30 days or something, but was a one-off exception and got temporarily banned because he blatantly admitted to using it not because GMs had to investigate data to build a case. it was also a big elephant in the room at the time because how it affected the raid scene being that AF programs gave you an advantage with the old FTE mechanics; that's why the current FTE situation deters it's competitive advantage. still, back then it wasn't against the rules because it was difficult to police. instead it was "frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplaine".

a great man once said, "it's not what you know...it's what you can prove". the client can't detect AF programs because it registers macros as a key stroke, so it's impossible to truly give you a black and white answer. afaik, I remember reading somewhere that some GMs can analyze apm logs in order to identify probable cause of a player using an AF program. I don't think it's feasible to keep a running log of APM data of every single character on p99..that would require an immense amount of storage (maybe I'm wrong).. perhaps they need to 'turn it on' when someone is acting fishy?

what I'm trying to get at is GM's have the capability to detect probable cause of a person using AF programs, though it's difficult, requires a lot of work, and in the end still not as black and white as detecting a showEQ or something of that sorts. my guess is that it's too much effort to ban a single person; the effort doesn't outweigh the reward (remember GMs are volunteers) not to mention the endless list of other issues, petitions, and clowns they have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. this issue sadly isn't low hanging fruit. i'm sure if detecting it was a quick win, they would be more inclined to do something about it on a micro-level. remember...they did do something about it on a raid level.

my question is that even if someone is using an AF program, can the client even register the clicks/second if the purp has lets say 50ping. theoretically, doesn't the client only register one action per every 50 ms? so even if he's truly registering let's say 100 clicks per 50ms, wouldn't the client logs only show 1 click per 50ms? if my theory is right, then a legit guy should still be able to register 2 actions before the purp does.

Raev
12-13-2016, 12:50 PM
Guys. The staff here prioritize a classic server over a fun server. They have explicitly chosen rules that give all pixels to poopsocking neckbeards for the past 6 years. It's not the choice I would make. In fact it seems like a completely insane choice to me. But accept that it's not changing. Either figure out a system that lets you have fun anyway or stop whining.

Cecily
12-13-2016, 12:56 PM
Under normal circumstances, lore items prevent abusing quests like this. Allowing someone to spam turn in after turn in for loot rights is just bottlenecking an already horrible bottleneck. There's no reason this quest shouldn't be randomed.

Vladimir
12-13-2016, 12:56 PM
Really guys.....
Your just in the wrong spot facing the wrong way.
People who can bind have infinity more chance to get the turn in compared to people to can't.
I swapped my main (melee) to turn in for my caster and I get the scout turn in quite a bit once I found a good spot.

If your not getting it, try a better spot, learn from your mistakes and try again.

Duane
12-13-2016, 01:12 PM
After winning 3 in a row, the salty tells were pretty good; I even made some streamer sperg out. I handed broken discs to guildies. 52ms, spamming trade bound on the spawn spot facing a certain direction. Isn't hard. Isn't fun either.
http://i.imgur.com/3614OmE.jpg

Leiker
12-13-2016, 01:22 PM
Really guys.....
Your just in the wrong spot facing the wrong way.
People who can bind have infinity more chance to get the turn in compared to people to can't.
I swapped my main (melee) to turn in for my caster and I get the scout turn in quite a bit once I found a good spot.

If your not getting it, try a better spot, learn from your mistakes and try again.


After winning 3 in a row, the salty tells were pretty good; I even made some streamer sperg out. I handed broken discs to guildies. 52ms, spamming trade bound on the spawn spot facing a certain direction. Isn't hard. Isn't fun either.


All good advice and this should be bare minimum for anyone attempting scout. You dont NEED to be able to bind to know the correct spot to stand on. Just use /loc and geographical markers to determine heading and make sure you have your trade windows aligned correctly. Again though, wont help you when up against a macro-clicker.

Without a doubt, a lot of people do get scout in a legitimate way and its not hard if there is no macro-clicker present. Lots of people who come to scout to do the turnin have no clue about what to do. You can even trick clueless people into standing at the wrong spot, quite hilarious. Doesnt change anything that has been said about macro-clickers.

Ravager
12-13-2016, 01:25 PM
After winning 3 in a row, the salty tells were pretty good; I even made some streamer sperg out. I handed broken discs to guildies. 52ms, spamming trade bound on the spawn spot facing a certain direction. Isn't hard. Isn't fun either.
http://i.imgur.com/3614OmE.jpg
This is the problem with the server. People do not fun things for imaginary rewards which escalates to other people doing even less fun things for the same imaginary rewards.

This game is playable without a Bracer of Benevolence. Velious was beat with Kunark gear. People shouldn't be losing their shit over inconsequential things.

Should just drop the drama and rotate everything, but since people can't share, just let the babies have their bottle and have fun raiding Velk's, Siren's Grotto and other enjoyable content that the BiS nerds won't touch.

Duane
12-13-2016, 01:26 PM
You dont NEED to be able to bind to know the correct spot to stand on.

Gating to your bind will body block others out of the spot. So you wait till its near scout time and gate, effectively pushing those w/o a bind out of the location.

Nixtar
12-13-2016, 01:43 PM
Guys. The staff here prioritize a classic server over a fun server. They have explicitly chosen rules that give all pixels to poopsocking neckbeards for the past 6 years. It's not the choice I would make. In fact it seems like a completely insane choice to me. But accept that it's not changing. Either figure out a system that lets you have fun anyway or stop whining.

Server is shaping up to be the most convincing case study for why future MMORPG has instancing. Also, why I'm no longer excited about Pantheon. The same people who play here will f*** everything up there too.

Lhancelot
12-13-2016, 02:29 PM
Server is shaping up to be the most convincing case study for why future MMORPG has instancing. Also, why I'm no longer excited about Pantheon. The same people who play here will f*** everything up there too.

We can only hope it takes 15 years for the players to master the art of fucking it up on Pantheon like it did for this game.

It's taken a long time for the nerds to figure out every possible way to exploit a situation and screw over other players on this very old elf sim.

EQBallzz
12-13-2016, 02:40 PM
We can only hope it takes 15 years for the players to master the art of fucking it up on Pantheon like it did for this game.

It's taken a long time for the nerds to figure out every possible way to exploit a situation and screw over other players on this very old elf sim.

Pantheon will also have more than 1 server including different rule sets and won't be frozen in time with no new content.

Lorglath84
12-13-2016, 02:41 PM
What are the rules regarding the scout? If you turn in the tools, you have 20 minutes to pull the captain, but once you pull him you can kite around as long as needed until your force to kill arrives?

khandman
12-13-2016, 02:53 PM
I've never liked the scout hand in because of the way it is handled. So I doubt I will ever get a bracer upgrade as I don't roll on the disc unless I am handing in the tools 'making an effort' and not just showing up for free stuff.

Crap camp.

On a side but kinda related note. Once the server has achieved it's 'classic' goal, and is ready for custom content. Introduce flags. Once you've done the quest, you are flagged and unable to do it again, if it is not designed to be repeatable. Thus NPC's will not respond to you due to the flag, and maybe even not entertain handin's conducted under MQ conditions. You'r MQ profit is 'gobbled' up.

Anyways :) there are other ways to enjoy the game than sitting at a single spot getting a cold arse.

Leiker
12-13-2016, 02:59 PM
What are the rules regarding the scout? If you turn in the tools, you have 20 minutes to pull the captain, but once you pull him you can kite around as long as needed until your force to kill arrives?

Correct

A bunch of FoH'ers were even DT'ed the other day for tryin to steal someone elses scout if I recall.

Vallanor
12-13-2016, 03:08 PM
Yeah, basically if your people don't get the turn-in, just pack it up and come back next time. They own that spawn until it depops.

sergan
12-13-2016, 03:51 PM
A bunch of FoH'ers were even DT'ed the other day for tryin to steal someone elses scout if I recall.

The mistake in take in consideration some tell made by one FoH about anything. I will love a /ignorefullguildmembers command

Lorglath84
12-13-2016, 04:38 PM
The mistake in take in consideration some tell made by one FoH about anything. I will love a /ignorefullguildmembers command

I do not understand your comment

Lhancelot
12-13-2016, 04:43 PM
The mistake in take in consideration some tell made by one FoH about anything. I will love a /ignorefullguildmembers command

^^ Translation: It is a mistake to consider the above statement made about FOH. If only there was an /ignorefullguildmembers command, so I could refrain from reading garbage spewed by players who are in some lowly zerg guild.

***Did I interpret what you meant? Or, am I off the mark here? I really want to know!

kaev
12-13-2016, 05:00 PM
Under normal circumstances, lore items prevent abusing quests like this. Allowing someone to spam turn in after turn in for loot rights is just bottlenecking an already horrible bottleneck. There's no reason this quest shouldn't be randomed.

I'd love to see the evidence of loot rights being sold. Seriously, all these unsupported and unsupportable bullshit accusations are the purest of RnF shit. RnF is the place for all your ignorant whining, they like it there.

rezbott
12-13-2016, 05:01 PM
wow some of you people need to start a new community on red because its literally not any less toxic than blue and you can get scout whenever you want.

Cecily
12-13-2016, 05:06 PM
Wow...

sergan
12-13-2016, 05:21 PM
Lhancelot traslation from sux english to good englisn +1

Samoht
12-13-2016, 05:31 PM
kave goes pure sperglord

Lhancelot
12-13-2016, 06:24 PM
Lhancelot traslation from sux english to good englisn +1

haha nice! What is your first language if I may ask? :)

dslaybac
12-13-2016, 07:13 PM
The fact that the same person has gotten *numerous* turn ins versus many conpetitors is what brings up the question of whether or not he is using a third party program. I can take getting beat by different people each time... but the same guy every time? Fishy af. I mean what... is he the Michael Jordan of Scout Charisa turn in? He also accused me of using autofire the one time I beat him. Cheater assumes the only way to be beat is by another cheater? Or does he really think he's just that badass?

Ciroco
12-13-2016, 07:28 PM
I'd love to see the evidence of loot rights being sold. Seriously, all these unsupported and unsupportable bullshit accusations are the purest of RnF shit. RnF is the place for all your ignorant whining, they like it there.

I like when people quote posts and then rant about things that weren't mentioned in the post at all

Cecily
12-13-2016, 07:42 PM
The fact that the same person has gotten *numerous* turn ins versus many conpetitors is what brings up the question of whether or not he is using a third party program. I can take getting beat by different people each time... but the same guy every time? Fishy af. I mean what... is he the Michael Jordan of Scout Charisa turn in? He also accused me of using autofire the one time I beat him. Cheater assumes the only way to be beat is by another cheater? Or does he really think he's just that badass?

I think the only justification for this type of turn in is the assumed level playing field. That assumption fails when one person can consistently lock out others on a regular basis. Clearly everyone does not have a "fair and equal chance of succeeding." It certainly does raise questions about 3rd party programs. Even if that isn't the case, we have a situation in which a player is bottle-necking a quest they otherwise would have moved on from after a completion or so. I sincerely hope the server will come to an agreement on /random being the preferred way to settle Scout spawns in the future. There's no gaming the system in that rule set.

He also accused me of using autofire the one time I beat him. Cheater assumes the only way to be beat is by another cheater? Or does he really think he's just that badass?

This part in particular is funny because that's the exact same reaction Catherin, patron saint of autofire, had when she lost to legit players.
HOW COULD THEY BEAT ME? I'M CHEATING.

Kagey
12-13-2016, 07:56 PM
you don't need auto fire for this camp, just low ping.

~Shrink.
~Stand under the spawn loc.
~Have a ping of 30-40ms.
~Look up and spam click. (have timer down by the second)

Your success is based off position/ping, and not having someone in front of your clicks.

If you don't meet these requirements find someone in your guild that does.

Cecily
12-13-2016, 07:57 PM
Or come to a player agreement that's fair to everyone? I know that sounds crazy.

Leiker
12-13-2016, 08:00 PM
you don't need auto fire for this camp, just low ping.

~Shrink.
~Stand under the spawn loc.
~Have a ping of 30-40ms.
~Look up and spam click. (have timer down by the second)

Your success is based off position/ping, and not having someone in front of your clicks.

If you don't meet these requirements find someone in your guild that does.

What if your "opponent" does all those things AND uses autofire/click-macro?

Dreenk317
12-13-2016, 08:07 PM
What if your "opponent" does all those things AND uses autofire/click-macro?

As it has been pointed out. The server can only recognize so many clicks a second. Auto fire macros often click way way more times than can be registered. So in essence it's 90% wasted clicks, it just increases there chance of clicking at the right time. But anyone with low ping and good timing can click there mouse 10 times a second no problem. And I'd be surprised if the server registered many more clicks per second than that. And scout is a zero variance spawn. So three seconds before she pops start clicking like a fiend.

Edit: this does not account for the more tricky macros that automatically open trade/move item/close trade all in about a half second. Anyone using one of those is officially cheating and an asshat. Though it's not exactly easy to prove when they are using the sorts of macro programs with programmable mouse movements. Not just auto clickers.

Kagey
12-13-2016, 08:08 PM
Then lets hope a GM catches him.

....

on that note, I've beat him. And have won 5 and given 2 away to old guildmates.

Maybe yall are just doing it wrong and or badluck with clicks.

Leiker
12-13-2016, 08:22 PM
As it has been pointed out. The server can only recognize so many clicks a second. Auto fire macros often click way way more times than can be registered. So in essence it's 90% wasted clicks, it just increases there chance of clicking at the right time. .

Not trying to be contrarian here, but do you have anything to back this claim up or is it just speculation?

How many times can you manually click a mouse pr second? How many clicks can the server register pr second?

I'm guessing manual clicking would give you somewhere inbetween 5 and 10 clicks per second (probably closer to 5). As for the server, I have no idea, but I bet it can register more.

Even in worst case scenario and the click macro having little effect, which I dont believe is the case, its still using a 3rd party program to gain an unfair advantage.

This does not account for the more tricky macros that automatically open trade/move item/close trade all in about a half second.

If you are moving items around while trying to do the turnin, you are doing it wrong. Have you ever tried to get Scout at all?

Anyway, tired of discussing this as I dont really care THAT much. I already got a couple of bracers and I play at Euro times and often it has very few people at scout and good chances to win. Cheaters piss me off though

Dreenk317
12-13-2016, 08:52 PM
Not trying to be contrarian here, but do you have anything to back this claim up or is it just speculation?

How many times can you manually click a mouse pr second? How many clicks can the server register pr second?

I'm guessing manual clicking would give you somewhere inbetween 5 and 10 clicks per second (probably closer to 5).



I will bet everything I own against everything that you own that I can click a mouse at least 15 times in a second, easily. Did you never play any games other than mmo's? There are a ton of games out there that require you to click at lightning speeds at some point. Everything from metal gear solid series (during some of the cinematic knife fights clicking rapidly is how you block some of the attacks). Mario party mini games (a ton of them require you to rapidly push buttons to win). First person shooters with semi-auto, shoots as fast as you can click weapons. The list goes on and on. I can confidently say that most human beings are capable of clicking a mouse ten times in a single second.

Maybe a second is a lot longer than you realize.

And my comment about mouse moving marries doesn't necessarily apply to scout turn in. But doesn't mean they aren't a thing. Was merely pointing out the fact that there are multiple types of "auto-fires"

Kagey
12-13-2016, 08:55 PM
I will bet everything I own against everything that you own that I can click a mouse at least 15 times in a second, easily. Did you never play any games other than mmo's? There are a ton of games out there that require you to click at lightning speeds at some point. Everything from metal gear solid series (during some of the cinematic knife fights clicking rapidly is how you block some of the attacks). Mario party mini games (a ton of them require you to rapidly push buttons to win). First person shooters with semi-auto, shoots as fast as you can click weapons. The list goes on and on. I can confidently say that most human beings are capable of clicking a mouse ten times in a single second.

Maybe a second is a lot longer than you realize.

And my comment about mouse moving marries doesn't necessarily apply to scout turn in. But doesn't mean they aren't a thing. Was merely pointing out the fact that there are multiple types of "auto-fires"


This is 100% spot on... sorry for the people who want a ps4 game style where even if you fail your spam clicks you get to continue onto the next cutscene.

bravo.

Cecily
12-13-2016, 09:00 PM
I love that PS4 game where you stand on top of a very specific position, mashing a button, and hope another player doesn't stand in your way or have a better internet connection. Good analogy.

Leiker
12-13-2016, 09:00 PM
Maybe I have fat fingers, its possible, I just went on click pr second website and I score a quite consistent 7 clicks pr second. With a basic macro that took me 5 seconds to set up, I scored 70 clicks pr second. Even assuming that someone can click twice as fast as your estimate, thats a significant advantage.

https://cookie.riimu.net/speed/

Anyway, there are videos out there of people setting up macros to do the scout turn in (and succeeding) just saying.

Kagey
12-13-2016, 09:03 PM
awesome link!

Clicks per second: 8.97
Sprint: 96 clicks, 9.28 c/s, 10 seconds

Kagey
12-13-2016, 09:06 PM
Cecily = C ranking

Darkatar
12-13-2016, 09:11 PM
The server can only recognize so many clicks a second. Auto fire macros often click way way more times than can be registered.

The "clicks" the server cares about are only the important ones. "This item cannot be dropped, traded, sold" is a client-side only notification

1-The mob spawns, mob is now tradeable, Person spamming click now has a valid trade target

Having a valid trade target, adds CURSORITEM to the TRADEWINDOW, removes CURSORITEM from mouse

2-Having a valid trade window, with a valid item, a valid click happens to the "accept trade"

So, as you can see, only 2 clicks are valid/possible/registered (assuming you don't trade your shit to a pet.) Those "wasted clicks" (after spawning) always come secondarily to the actual valid clicks, and are unimportant.

Leiker
12-13-2016, 09:16 PM
awesome link!

Clicks per second: 8.97
Sprint: 96 clicks, 9.28 c/s, 10 seconds

Not bad, nowhere near the (atleast) 15 clicks per second claimed by Dreenk317 though.

And of course, not even close to my 5 second macro:

Clicks per second: 69.79
Sprint: 681 clicks, 70.23 c/s, 10 seconds

Im sure someone who actually knows computers beyond googling a how-to could set up a better macro than mine.
Anyway, bedtime.

Izmael
12-13-2016, 09:17 PM
Summon a pet at the mob spawn point to get rid of the autofirers? Then discard the pet 5 seconds latwr.

Darkatar
12-13-2016, 09:25 PM
Summon a pet at the mob spawn point to get rid of the autofirers? Then discard the pet 5 seconds latwr.

This used to happen at ragefire quite often, the tears were real, threats of petitioning, but I've seen pearls eaten, but have yet to see anyone banned/suspended for the summoning. Been a long time though.

Dreenk317
12-13-2016, 09:28 PM
Not bad, nowhere near the (atleast) 15 clicks per second claimed by Dreenk317 though.

And of course, not even close to my 5 second macro:

Clicks per second: 69.79
Sprint: 681 clicks, 70.23 c/s, 10 seconds

Im sure someone who actually knows computers beyond googling a how-to could set up a better macro than mine.
Anyway, bedtime.

So, with your logic, because it's possible to easily set up a macro, everyone must be doing so? At least that's what it sounds like your argument is.

And his 9 clicks a second is a lot closer to my proposed "the average human could click ten times a second" then your 5 times a second estimate, and I'm at work, on a phone, no access to mouse or screen, so I'll have to post my results when I get home. But this isn't my first click speed rodeo, so start liquidating your shit, I'll send my pay pal info

skarlorn
12-13-2016, 09:49 PM
I love to play on project 1999 elf server with all these normal, healthy adults.

Lammy
12-13-2016, 10:39 PM
Last time Scout was locked down by an individual Braknar rewarded him with a permanent vacation to use his new keyboard on some other game. Perhaps it gave him some motivation to seek employment. But sadly it seems okay to use Autofire as long as you're not dumb enough to make a personal fraps and share it on youtube.

Dreenk317
12-13-2016, 11:28 PM
Not bad, nowhere near the (atleast) 15 clicks per second claimed by Dreenk317 though.

And of course, not even close to my 5 second macro:

Clicks per second: 69.79
Sprint: 681 clicks, 70.23 c/s, 10 seconds

Im sure someone who actually knows computers beyond googling a how-to could set up a better macro than mine.
Anyway, bedtime.



Clicks per second: 15.3
Sprint: 157 clicks, 15.7 c/s, 10 seconds

done.

Briscoe
12-14-2016, 01:55 AM
[Mon Dec 12 13:26:15 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'Multiple turn ins for the same guy Schfiftyfiver. I would suggest petitioning.'
[Mon Dec 12 13:26:53 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'Timer is started.'

[Mon Dec 12 13:40:23 2016] Catclaw says out of character, '15 miutes'
[Mon Dec 12 13:40:30 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'time is wearing thin'

[Mon Dec 12 13:46:18 2016] Catclaw says out of character, '21 minutes ENGAGING'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:25 2016] Cerealia says out of character, 'NOT YOUR TURNIN '
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:29 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'My mob'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:32 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'please do not engage'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:39 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'now we have 20 minutes'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:40 2016] Cerealia says out of character, 'sod off'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:49 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'Petition incoming if you mess with my mob'

[Mon Dec 12 13:54:16 2016] Sirken shouts 'LORGLATH'
[Mon Dec 12 13:54:21 2016] Sirken shouts 'CURTS'
[Mon Dec 12 13:54:24 2016] Sirken shouts 'CATCLAW'
[Mon Dec 12 13:54:29 2016] Sirken shouts 'NOREST'
[Mon Dec 12 13:54:31 2016] Sirken shouts 'FUZZYBRITCHES'
[Mon Dec 12 13:55:00 2016] Cugel says out of character, 'petition backfire? :P'
[Mon Dec 12 13:55:17 2016] Sirken shouts, 'stop KSing people. next time expect an extended winter vacation'

Meep
12-14-2016, 02:38 AM
[Mon Dec 12 13:26:15 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'Multiple turn ins for the same guy Schfiftyfiver. I would suggest petitioning.'
[Mon Dec 12 13:26:53 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'Timer is started.'

[Mon Dec 12 13:40:23 2016] Catclaw says out of character, '15 miutes'
[Mon Dec 12 13:40:30 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'time is wearing thin'

[Mon Dec 12 13:46:18 2016] Catclaw says out of character, '21 minutes ENGAGING'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:25 2016] Cerealia says out of character, 'NOT YOUR TURNIN '
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:29 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'My mob'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:32 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'please do not engage'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:39 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'now we have 20 minutes'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:40 2016] Cerealia says out of character, 'sod off'
[Mon Dec 12 13:46:49 2016] Catclaw says out of character, 'Petition incoming if you mess with my mob'

[Mon Dec 12 13:54:16 2016] Sirken shouts 'LORGLATH'
[Mon Dec 12 13:54:21 2016] Sirken shouts 'CURTS'
[Mon Dec 12 13:54:24 2016] Sirken shouts 'CATCLAW'
[Mon Dec 12 13:54:29 2016] Sirken shouts 'NOREST'
[Mon Dec 12 13:54:31 2016] Sirken shouts 'FUZZYBRITCHES'
[Mon Dec 12 13:55:00 2016] Cugel says out of character, 'petition backfire? :P'
[Mon Dec 12 13:55:17 2016] Sirken shouts, 'stop KSing people. next time expect an extended winter vacation'

I see dead people, but what actually happened there?

kagrobb
12-14-2016, 02:59 AM
change it to 45 min repop

Lorglath84
12-14-2016, 03:08 AM
I see dead people, but what actually happened there?
We had a misunderstanding of the rules surrounding Scout... We thought that once you turn in you have 20 minutes to actively engage the target (captain), as we thought rule 10 applied....


Q10: What about a raid mob being indefinitely kited, stalled, or occupied?
A: It is against server policy to indefinitely kite, stall, or otherwise keep occupied, a raid mob without intention of killing it. You either bring it to your raid, die, or zone out. Obvious stalling of a raid mob, especially in situations to prevent engagement by another guild/party, is against the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse to break this rule, if you are pulling raid targets, we expect you to know what you’re doing.


But apparently this isn't the case....

in the specific instance above, after we waiting for him stalling 20 minutes we engaged as he was stalling the mob. Sirken came and corrected us on our misunderstanding, and said once he engages he can kite it around forever, until he loses aggro - once mobs aggro is clear, mob is free to engage by anyone.

khandman
12-14-2016, 03:43 AM
Scout Charisa is the 'Hyper Sports' equivalent for the 21st century :)

Fifield
12-14-2016, 03:55 AM
We had a misunderstanding of the rules surrounding Scout... We thought that once you turn in you have 20 minutes to actively engage the target (captain), as we thought rule 10 applied....

in the nicest way i can say this, your a dumbass if you think raid rules apply to scout,

Meep
12-14-2016, 03:55 AM
We had a misunderstanding of the rules surrounding Scout... We thought that once you turn in you have 20 minutes to actively engage the target (captain), as we thought rule 10 applied....

But apparently this isn't the case....

in the specific instance above, after we waiting for him stalling 20 minutes we engaged as he was stalling the mob. Sirken came and corrected us on our misunderstanding, and said once he engages he can kite it around forever, until he loses aggro - once mobs aggro is clear, mob is free to engage by anyone.

I take it then the same applies on the South Ro ancient cyclops? Or is that going to be another "misunderstanding"? ;)

I feel like a lot of problems on the server could be solved if we weren't applying different rules to different camps...not to say we need "more rules" but just some consistency.

Notaa
12-14-2016, 04:05 AM
your a dumbass

<3 irony

Lhancelot
12-14-2016, 04:05 AM
We had a misunderstanding of the rules surrounding Scout... We thought that once you turn in you have 20 minutes to actively engage the target (captain), as we thought rule 10 applied....



But apparently this isn't the case....

in the specific instance above, after we waiting for him stalling 20 minutes we engaged as he was stalling the mob. Sirken came and corrected us on our misunderstanding, and said once he engages he can kite it around forever, until he loses aggro - once mobs aggro is clear, mob is free to engage by anyone.

Goddamn this is just embarrassing. Anyone involved in situations like the one above who behave in this fashion over pixels, just, I don't even have the words...

I honestly don't know how Sirken and the other guides don't troll the fuck out of people when they go neckbeard-crazy over mobs like this.

I mean, if I seen some dude spend 20 minutes kiting a mob around while a pack of neckbeards follow the kite around counting down in chat channels when they are engaging while others are begging others not to engage it, I'd inexplicably despawn the mob just to see them all go batshit crazy.

This behavior is why the raiding scene is so awful too. Same attitude, same greedy neckbeards involved in that scene too.

Ikon
12-14-2016, 04:38 AM
Goddamn this is just embarrassing. Anyone involved in situations like the one above who behave in this fashion over pixels, just, I don't even have the words...

I honestly don't know how Sirken and the other guides don't troll the fuck out of people when they go neckbeard-crazy over mobs like this.

I mean, if I seen some dude spend 20 minutes kiting a mob around while a pack of neckbeards follow the kite around counting down in chat channels when they are engaging while others are begging others not to engage it, I'd inexplicably despawn the mob just to see them all go batshit crazy.

This behavior is why the raiding scene is so awful too. Same attitude, same greedy neckbeards involved in that scene too.
A lot of it would disappear if MQ farmers were told to feck off and people could actually do the quests themselves.

TheDuck
12-14-2016, 05:40 AM
this is done at every "needed" piece on p99. people who treat farming like its some kinda job (is it a job? i think we can guess), basically there is absolutely no reason for people to be out at this camp rotating it between him and a few others since velious launch, whats the point.(i think we all know the point), when does he have time to play the alt he is gearing up with all that plat? (bullshit he doesnt have an alt to play).

I dont play anymore, i do enjoy the community though, i started on blue and realized blue is like this all through the game, these seemingly never ending farmers that never leave that camp, and i play 24 hours at a time, for fun. like you know, getting my item and progressing. These people are littered throughout blue and it's like some kind of heirarchy. Depending where u fit in the social status of farmers you are allowed to keep that plat source on farm.

I wish the staff would do something about the obvious plat farmers littered throughout the blue server. Classic was nothing like trying to beat your way through plat farmers, not in the least. if its not jboots, its an epic piece, if its not an epic piece, its scout, if its not scout its the FBSS camp, if its not a haste item camp its something else. the same people have been sitting on the same camps for years.


edit : plat farmers = use imagination.

double edit: forgot to mention, these guys have been on the server long enough to know the landscape, say all the right things when the GM's come around to make sure the the FTE's and camp lists are working correctly. These people repeatedly win out in lawyer quest situations to new players. i remember when i played live, i never had to refer to a rule book constantly, i always went by the "don't be a dick policy". If i didn't know better i'd say u got the perfect plat farming system that takes advantage of new players who need there items but cock block the items thru rules and perma farmers, forcing the new players to farm raw plat to buy the items.

Whirled
12-14-2016, 08:06 AM
Pull the plug. That will stop all of this. Maybe come back in 30, 90 180 days or never again. Force the no lifers to get a job, new hobby and make America great again instead of turning them into mindless zombies fighting over imaginary items. Maybe it's too late though. I'd definitely buy any one in charge of this drinks if only for the sheer thought of what they have put up with for years.

paroxysmal
12-14-2016, 08:09 AM
Lol. I told them all the night before not to engage a mob that is already aggro on someone. They didn't listen to papa and got rekt. Live and learn.

Schfifty did die to his captain the night before and they got the kill on him.
As long as there are idiots willing to buy the loot rights he's going to keep doing this until it gets fixed.

Meep
12-14-2016, 08:49 AM
Wipe it clean, enough is enough

maskedmelon
12-14-2016, 09:53 AM
in the nicest way i can say this, your a dumbass if you think raid rules apply to scout,

Whew, glad someone else spoke up so I don't have to say that you either have to be super dumb or dishonest to suggest the scout event is a raid ^^ Oh wait, I just said it :c

Ikon
12-14-2016, 10:01 AM
Why dont all you cry babies grow a pair and play on red99. I would love to see an entire blue guild roll on red and suceed.
EQ pvp is sortof shite. Can't charm players and drown them in Nek river. I play EvE when I want to PvP. Not perfect but its a hell of a lot better than EQ pvp.

Whirled
12-14-2016, 10:14 AM
EQ PvP is pretty pitiful on many levels. Trying to equate it in any manly terms is frightening. I feel sorry for you if that's all you have to prove your manliness with. I pity you.

fugazi
12-14-2016, 10:24 AM
Why dont all you cry babies grow a pair and play on red99. I would love to see an entire blue guild roll on red and suceed.

This is what conscious irrelevance sounds like.

Jimjam
12-14-2016, 10:30 AM
Goddamn this is just embarrassing. Anyone involved in situations like the one above who behave in this fashion over pixels, just, I don't even have the words...

I honestly don't know how Sirken and the other guides don't troll the fuck out of people when they go neckbeard-crazy over mobs like this.

I mean, if I seen some dude spend 20 minutes kiting a mob around while a pack of neckbeards follow the kite around counting down in chat channels when they are engaging while others are begging others not to engage it, I'd inexplicably despawn the mob just to see them all go batshit crazy.

This behavior is why the raiding scene is so awful too. Same attitude, same greedy neckbeards involved in that scene too.

I think the solution to this problem is for Kerafym to return during such silliness. He never did his Velious wide crawl to Lord Yelinak afterall.

Lhancelot
12-14-2016, 10:48 AM
i always went by the "don't be a dick policy".

The problem here is the people running the plat camps non-stop can't help it. Their thirst and greed overrides any sense of moral scruples they should have. It's like some sort of weird pixel addiction/disease.

Also, because others who run the plat camps behave in this way, it seems to create a merry-go-round situation where this behavior is encouraged.

A year ago I went from playing like a true casual, then joining a relatively successful raiding guild to see how it was, plus I thought it would be fun to develop my toon and gear him up. I seen the same type of greedy behavior exhibited by the guild and not just to other guilds.

I witnessed firsthand how greedy many of these dudes are.

One guy literally has at least 5 alts I know of, all geared better than most members mains in the guild mind you, yet this did not stop him from sending me a tell begging me to "buy" an item I won fair and square on a /ran roll when it was determined many of us could use the item for a quest. He wanted the quest item for his alt. Nevermind I had one main, and nevermind his alts were all geared better than my main. Dude had to have this quest piece.

Thing is, a large number of the players in these raid guilds either are blind to it, or simply choose to pretend they don't see this selfish, greedy, nasty behavior. It really appears the majority of them have truly drank the koolaid.

These types of players are the majority in the top tier echelon of raiding and plat farming camps I believe.

Either you act this way, or you get scraps and leftovers. Just how it is here. Sad.

I know many of these same greedy dudes will say, "Yeah but, I put the time in I deserve what I get that's how it works." But, it's not how it works. You can show some sort of decency towards other players, and control your inner greed and desires so others can get some too.

You don't have to be so greedy and so shitty to other players that you simply control a camp whenever you are logged in and can. You can let other people who can't sock a camp or item 24/7 have a chance to do it sometimes, too. This is being a greedy POS if you deliberately hold a camp hostage and do not allow all the hundreds of other players a chance to enjoy a camp, ever.

Alanus
12-14-2016, 10:52 AM
Threads like these make me glad I am a casual plat farmer with a life outside of Project 1999 that buys MQs and loot rights and don't have to deal with this crap.

Lammy
12-14-2016, 11:25 AM
The problem here is the people running the plat camps non-stop can't help it. Their thirst and greed overrides any sense of moral scruples they should have. It's like some sort of weird pixel addiction/disease.

Also, because others who run the plat camps behave in this way, it seems to create a merry-go-round situation where this behavior is encouraged.

A year ago I went from playing like a true casual, then joining a relatively successful raiding guild to see how it was, plus I thought it would be fun to develop my toon and gear him up. I seen the same type of greedy behavior exhibited by the guild and not just to other guilds.

I witnessed firsthand how greedy many of these dudes are.

One guy literally has at least 5 alts I know of, all geared better than most members mains in the guild mind you, yet this did not stop him from sending me a tell begging me to "buy" an item I won fair and square on a /ran roll when it was determined many of us could use the item for a quest. He wanted the quest item for his alt. Nevermind I had one main, and nevermind his alts were all geared better than my main. Dude had to have this quest piece.

Thing is, a large number of the players in these raid guilds either are blind to it, or simply choose to pretend they don't see this selfish, greedy, nasty behavior. It really appears the majority of them have truly drank the koolaid.

These types of players are the majority in the top tier echelon of raiding and plat farming camps I believe.

Either you act this way, or you get scraps and leftovers. Just how it is here. Sad.

I know many of these same greedy dudes will say, "Yeah but, I put the time in I deserve what I get that's how it works." But, it's not how it works. You can show some sort of decency towards other players, and control your inner greed and desires so others can get some too.

You don't have to be so greedy and so shitty to other players that you simply control a camp whenever you are logged in and can. You can let other people who can't sock a camp or item 24/7 have a chance to do it sometimes, too. This is being a greedy POS if you deliberately hold a camp hostage and do not allow all the hundreds of other players a chance to enjoy a camp, ever.

I'm pretty sure your typical Neckbeard has some sort of real life handicap or social disorder. It's an escape, and is most likely why they dedicate their entire lives to the pixel hunt. I know I tried it for a period once on P99. You can do it for a while but you'd have to be quite the exception to maintain a quality real life and keep a solid raid attendance in those guilds. That's why most of them are miserable people who rock their jollies on you not getting their pixels. Just look at the way some of them speak to GMs and other players. It is a sickness though, so you can't really call them bad people.

Alanus
12-14-2016, 11:31 AM
I'm pretty sure your typical Neckbeard has some sort of real life handicap or social disorder. It's an escape, and is most likely why they dedicate their entire lives to the pixel hunt. I know I tried it for a period once on P99. You can do it for a while but you'd have to be quite the exception to maintain a quality real life and keep a solid raid attendance in those guilds. That's why most of them are miserable people who rock their jollies on you not getting their pixels. Just look at the way some of them speak to GMs and other players. It is a sickness though, so you can't really call them bad people.

You nailed it. I used to play on live way too much. It was an escape for me. I had no real life. It was college and EQ. That was it.

paulgiamatti
12-14-2016, 11:31 AM
It is a sickness though, so you can't really call them bad people.

That's a little too Zen Buddhist for my blood. You're right, sociopathy is a mental disorder, but under the "you can't really call them bad people" ethos you have to be consistent - if a psychopath murders your best friend, then you can't hold them in contempt either.

Meep
12-14-2016, 11:32 AM
The problem here is the people running the plat camps non-stop can't help it. Their thirst and greed overrides any sense of moral scruples they should have. It's like some sort of weird pixel addiction/disease.

Also, because others who run the plat camps behave in this way, it seems to create a merry-go-round situation where this behavior is encouraged.

A year ago I went from playing like a true casual, then joining a relatively successful raiding guild to see how it was, plus I thought it would be fun to develop my toon and gear him up. I seen the same type of greedy behavior exhibited by the guild and not just to other guilds.

I witnessed firsthand how greedy many of these dudes are.

One guy literally has at least 5 alts I know of, all geared better than most members mains in the guild mind you, yet this did not stop him from sending me a tell begging me to "buy" an item I won fair and square on a /ran roll when it was determined many of us could use the item for a quest. He wanted the quest item for his alt. Nevermind I had one main, and nevermind his alts were all geared better than my main. Dude had to have this quest piece.

Thing is, a large number of the players in these raid guilds either are blind to it, or simply choose to pretend they don't see this selfish, greedy, nasty behavior. It really appears the majority of them have truly drank the koolaid.

These types of players are the majority in the top tier echelon of raiding and plat farming camps I believe.

Either you act this way, or you get scraps and leftovers. Just how it is here. Sad.

I know many of these same greedy dudes will say, "Yeah but, I put the time in I deserve what I get that's how it works." But, it's not how it works. You can show some sort of decency towards other players, and control your inner greed and desires so others can get some too.

You don't have to be so greedy and so shitty to other players that you simply control a camp whenever you are logged in and can. You can let other people who can't sock a camp or item 24/7 have a chance to do it sometimes, too. This is being a greedy POS if you deliberately hold a camp hostage and do not allow all the hundreds of other players a chance to enjoy a camp, ever.

There was one guy in a guild I was in, and about 18 months ago maybe now he had literally 7-8 characters he'd raid with depending on what the raid was and what we were doing. The DKP system was at the point where everyone would bid the minimum and usually get it, so he'd often have his other characters camped out just in case something was going to rot... he'd get it for the minimum each time.\

Nothing wrong with that you might think... but while it didn't happen to me he'd sometimes ask people in the same class he was playing ahead of time NOT TO BID, like really as if he needed it more but wanted to pay the minimum and no more than that.

What you going to do with 7-8 averagely geared characters? Loser. Gear 1-2 and gear them properly. 1 is best. Stay focused.

Rang
12-14-2016, 12:35 PM
do not interfere with infinite kiting of quest mobs being sold for RMT

-the staff

FTFY

Kagey
12-14-2016, 01:06 PM
All good advice and this should be bare minimum for anyone attempting scout. You dont NEED to be able to bind to know the correct spot to stand on. Just use /loc and geographical markers to determine heading and make sure you have your trade windows aligned correctly. Again though, wont help you when up against a macro-clicker.

Without a doubt, a lot of people do get scout in a legitimate way and its not hard if there is no macro-clicker present. Lots of people who come to scout to do the turnin have no clue about what to do. You can even trick clueless people into standing at the wrong spot, quite hilarious. Doesnt change anything that has been said about macro-clickers.

Debating with you is like debating God with a Christian.
You view is if a macro clicker is there no one will beat him. And if someone else actually does win, it's cause the macro clicker isn't there.

Dreenk317
12-14-2016, 01:23 PM
Debating with you is like debating God with a Christian.
You view is if a macro clicker is there no one will beat him. And if someone else actually does win, it's cause the macro clicker isn't there.

His view is more of "if I didn't win it's because a macro clicker was there". Why can't someone just be first? Why can't people accept that someone might have beat them without cheating?

Lammy
12-14-2016, 01:41 PM
I believe they're referencing the ones that win time and time again.

Leiker
12-14-2016, 01:47 PM
His view is more of "if I didn't win it's because a macro clicker was there". Why can't someone just be first? Why can't people accept that someone might have beat them without cheating?

Nice strawman, but this is not what I am saying at all.
Please see Lammys comment above.

I never said that macro-clickers are present at every scout. All I am saying is that macro clicking gives an unfair advantage and that it should be sanctioned, nothing more, nothing less. Its like having a 100m race with one guy starting 30m ahead of the other guy. It does not mean that the first guy cannot win, just that the second guy has a significant advantage.

The fact that you can beat a macro clicker does not mean that it does not give an unfair advantage.

Thugnuts
12-14-2016, 02:52 PM
The problem here is the people running the plat camps non-stop can't help it. Their thirst and greed overrides any sense of moral scruples they should have. It's like some sort of weird pixel addiction/disease.


We are certainly dealing with some unhealthy individuals on this server, but there's another form of addiction that many folks here are feeding: $3 USD for 1K on the shitlord RMT market.

When you've got someone with access to ten different max level epic'd characters on six different accounts, who are in or have been in the top raiding guild or guilds for years on end, you're talking about someone who already has access to all the content in the game. Every zone. Every item. They can have any of it.

So why are they farming cash camps, MQ's, and generally cockblocking scruffy newbs who've only been here for a year? $3 USD for 1,000 plat. All day, everyday on multiple websites.

What does that add up to for people who are banging out hundreds of thousands of plat each month? Rent, weed money, the co-pay on their benzos, etc.

Been going on here since the Kunark era when one guild took over pretty much all the endgame content. Heaps of top-end gear that only they had regular, ongoing access to was being RMT'd for a mint on a daily basis... for years.

Most of those folks are still here playing today, and still doing the same thing. Only the guild names and the mule names change. It works like this:

Scumlord sells 50,000 plat for $150 USD to some random schmuck who is locked out of content, but really really wants the Spergy Axe of Sundering.

Scumlord then sells schmuck the Spergy Axe of Sundering MQ in the game for 50,000 plat. Totally legit, just farming MQ's dontcha know?

Scumlord then takes that same 50,000 plat and sells it again for another $150 to a totally different schmuck, who is locked out of content, but really really wants the Illustrious Robe of Incontinence.

Rinse and repeat.

Alanus
12-14-2016, 02:59 PM
We are certainly dealing with some unhealthy individuals on this server, but there's another form of addiction that many folks here are feeding: $3 USD for 1K on the shitlord RMT market.

When you've got someone with access to ten different max level epic'd characters on six different accounts, who are in or have been in the top raiding guild or guilds for years on end, you're talking about someone who already has access to all the content in the game. Every zone. Every item. They can have any of it.

So why are they farming cash camps, MQ's, and generally cockblocking scruffy newbs who've only been here for a year? $3 USD for 1,000 plat. All day, everyday on multiple websites.

What does that add up to for people who are banging out hundreds of thousands of plat each month? Rent, weed money, the co-pay on their benzos, etc.

Been going on here since the Kunark era when one guild took over pretty much all the endgame content. Heaps of top-end gear that only they had regular, ongoing access to was being RMT'd for a mint on a daily basis... for years.

Most of those folks are still here playing today, and still doing the same thing. Only the guild names and the mule names change. It works like this:

Scumlord sells 50,000 plat for $150 USD to some random schmuck who is locked out of content, but really really wants the Spergy Axe of Sundering.

Scumlord then sells schmuck the Spergy Axe of Sundering MQ in the game for 50,000 plat. Totally legit, just farming MQ's dontcha know?

Scumlord then takes that same 50,000 plat and sells it again for another $150 to a totally different schmuck, who is locked out of content, but really really wants the Illustrious Robe of Incontinence.

Rinse and repeat.

I would imagine it'd be easy to catch RMTers. Just set up some code to flag when high amounts of plat get traded for almost nothing. Then investigate them (i.e. check if it was a legit reason, such as transfer or loot rights or whatever, versus RMT)

Thugnuts
12-14-2016, 03:05 PM
I would imagine it'd be easy to catch RMTers. Just set up some code to flag when high amounts of plat get traded for almost nothing. Then investigate them (i.e. check if it was a legit reason, such as transfer or loot rights or whatever, versus RMT)

I think they have that already, but it's not very effective. Same folks have been doing it for years. If they slip up and get banned on one account, it's OK.. they just move to the next account and keep going.

The GMs try, but there's only so much they can do. When people are willing to buy, and people are willing to sell, they always find a way.

It's the folks who want to play the game legitimately who get sandwiched between the sewer, and the turd floating down it.

nyclin
12-14-2016, 03:09 PM
lollin' at the long-winded posts ascribing grandiose Machiavellian schemes to cockblock casuals from loot, when in reality people just want to gear their chars and are willing to put in the time to do it and some aren't able or willing to

don't let this stop you from concern trolling and shitposting your way to forum superstardom though

Leiker
12-14-2016, 03:30 PM
Yeah I doubt there are any ulterior motives to this sort of behavior as suggested. The guy who is named in the OP is even in a casual guild. Paradigm shift is hardly known for being super hardcore and locking down content.

Alanus
12-14-2016, 03:41 PM
Yeah I doubt there are any ulterior motives to this sort of behavior as suggested. The guy who is named in the OP is even in a casual guild. Paradigm shift is hardly known for being super hardcore and locking down content.

He probably does what I and many others do that have a life outside of P1999: Farm shit, save up, and buy shit you want that you can't get yourself.

I am not in a raid guild and would never be able to have most of my gear without buying MQs or loot rights. I don't want to join a raid guild.

He likely just happens to have a low ping and can click fast.

Erati
12-14-2016, 03:52 PM
gladI did my Scout early when we all were gentlemen and stood in circle around spawn point

BDA was big on policing the turn in bc they would show up w 15+, thats the current issue w this, lack of Chest n BDA

Ravager
12-14-2016, 04:58 PM
gladI did my Scout early when we all were gentlemen and stood in circle around spawn point

BDA was big on policing the turn in bc they would show up w 15+, thats the current issue w this, lack of Chest n BDA
BDA leaves and the server goes to shit.

Vladimir
12-14-2016, 04:59 PM
Just to let you guys know, PS has never sold the rights of the disc to anyone and the item has always gone to someone in the guild.

There have been times where we have been short of people and invite others to help kill the Captain and then everyone rolls a random 1000 and the highest roll wins.

Leiker
12-14-2016, 05:31 PM
Just to let you guys know, PS has never sold the rights of the disc to anyone

Not for the lack of trying though:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260191

Not that there is anything wrong with selling items if they are acquired in a legitimate way.

Lorglath84
12-14-2016, 05:49 PM
Just to let you guys know, PS has never sold the rights of the disc to anyone and the item has always gone to someone in the guild.

There have been times where we have been short of people and invite others to help kill the Captain and then everyone rolls a random 1000 and the highest roll wins.

Considering Schwifty sold to an Anon player earlier this week, that statement is a lie.

TheDuck
12-14-2016, 06:00 PM
think its pretty clear what we have uncovered here with the scout. Wish you guys would call out all the people that do it on blue server, every single camp is rotated by /cough "plat farmers" /cough.

reevesz
12-14-2016, 06:08 PM
Considering Schwifty sold to an Anon player earlier this week, that statement is a lie.

this is very true, i sold him my body for a night for the disk.

valaka
12-14-2016, 06:09 PM
Not for the lack of trying though:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260191

Not that there is anything wrong with selling items if they are acquired in a legitimate way.

Lul

Lhancelot
12-14-2016, 07:08 PM
Just to let you guys know, PS has never sold the rights of the disc to anyone and the item has always gone to someone in the guild.

There have been times where we have been short of people and invite others to help kill the Captain and then everyone rolls a random 1000 and the highest roll wins.

Really? That's interesting.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=260191 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260191)

reevesz
12-14-2016, 07:12 PM
Really? That's interesting.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=260191 (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260191)

I believe that is just a troll. Sorry Lhancelot

Lhancelot
12-14-2016, 07:16 PM
I believe that is just a troll. Sorry Lhancelot

It's pretty funny if it is. Well done indeed. :p

Crawdad
12-15-2016, 11:17 AM
Paying someone for a MQ on scout tools is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard of happening on this server. It might make sense if it were to twinks, but you people are entirely able do this yourself, and are somehow still choosing to enable this shitfest. It takes like 3 people. Do it your freaking self and stop making everything a GD plat farm.

I honestly don't see how someone new to the server could see posts like this and not go screaming the other direction. Great work guys.

TheDuck
12-15-2016, 11:21 AM
you are not enabling shit when they kill the mob/stop the quest from being able to be done unless you pay them. lol.

Sloshed
12-15-2016, 11:26 AM
Paying someone for a MQ on scout tools is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard of happening on this server. It might make sense if it were to twinks, but you people are entirely able do this yourself, and are somehow still choosing to enable this shitfest. It takes like 3 people. Do it your freaking self and stop making everything a GD plat farm.

I honestly don't see how someone new to the server could see posts like this and not go screaming the other direction. Great work guys.

You're absolutely right. I've been playing since September and the closer to 60 I get the more asshattery I see pushing me away.

TheDuck
12-15-2016, 11:47 AM
You're absolutely right. I've been playing since September and the closer to 60 I get the more asshattery I see pushing me away.

i got to 50 on the blue server before i had enough of running into long lines to get an item already, that was ok. Thats classic. What wasn't was going to do part of my epic and keep trying to get on the list repeatedly only to find out its an "plat farm" crew that never comes off the spawn and in order to get your very small part epic piece its going to cost u 20k.

So you pay the 20k and ur like fine whatever i got that over with. on to the next item, lets go camp an SMR. ok slight wait, 2 people ahead of me. no big deal. Wait my turn, get the camp. a couple hours later. great i get my robe and move on to my next camp.

Get on over to my next epic item camp, and there are 3 people just sitting there, they never reply, nothing. i ask to get put on the list, no reply ever. i finally get there attention and they say yea yea, we will add you to the list. only to find out old song and dance, they never leave the spawn so how does a list enforce jack shit. eventually they tell you, for 20k we will kill it for you. So you start realizing, i just paid 20k for my last very minor epic quest piece. and now someone is trying to charge me 20k for this other minor quest piece. I simply do not have the plat for this 2nd epic piece let alone the other 10 minor pieces that i most likely will have to buy because the "plat farmers" never leave the spawns.


This is leveling up and gearing for a new player in a nutshell. and it's def not classic.

Crawdad
12-15-2016, 11:50 AM
you are not enabling shit when they kill the mob/stop the quest from being able to be done unless you pay them. lol.

That's called extortion hombre. Don't feed the beast.

Alanus
12-15-2016, 12:14 PM
Paying someone for a MQ on scout tools is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard of happening on this server. It might make sense if it were to twinks, but you people are entirely able do this yourself, and are somehow still choosing to enable this shitfest. It takes like 3 people. Do it your freaking self and stop making everything a GD plat farm.

I honestly don't see how someone new to the server could see posts like this and not go screaming the other direction. Great work guys.

Eh some of us have other things to do than to sit there and wait for her to spawn while spam clicking trying to turn in the tools against a dozen others. I would gladly spend 20k if it means I don't have to do that and then bother a few others to come and help me kill captain.

Easy solution to it: make it /random like the 8th ring. The way it is done now is pretty awful. I don't want to sit there and spam click and hope I can win the turn in against some neckbeard trying to get a bracer for his 7th alt.

Kagey
12-15-2016, 12:20 PM
Eh some of us have other things to do than to sit there and wait for her to spawn while spam clicking trying to turn in the tools against a dozen others. I would gladly spend 20k if it means I don't have to do that and then bother a few others to come and help me kill captain.

Easy solution to it: make it /random like the 8th ring. The way it is done now is pretty awful. I don't want to sit there and spam click and hope I can win the turn in against some neckbeard trying to get a bracer for his 7th alt.

theres no variance to scout window, she pops 10hours (i think) on the dot, each and every time.
you log in for 20 secs, spam click for 5 secs and your done. Your not camping this for 10+hours, unless you like doing things the hard way.

Lhancelot
12-15-2016, 12:30 PM
i got to 50 on the blue server before i had enough of running into long lines to get an item already, that was ok. Thats classic. What wasn't was going to do part of my epic and keep trying to get on the list repeatedly only to find out its an "plat farm" crew that never comes off the spawn and in order to get your very small part epic piece its going to cost u 20k.

So you pay the 20k and ur like fine whatever i got that over with. on to the next item, lets go camp an SMR. ok slight wait, 2 people ahead of me. no big deal. Wait my turn, get the camp. a couple hours later. great i get my robe and move on to my next camp.

Get on over to my next epic item camp, and there are 3 people just sitting there, they never reply, nothing. i ask to get put on the list, no reply ever. i finally get there attention and they say yea yea, we will add you to the list. only to find out old song and dance, they never leave the spawn so how does a list enforce jack shit. eventually they tell you, for 20k we will kill it for you. So you start realizing, i just paid 20k for my last very minor epic quest piece. and now someone is trying to charge me 20k for this other minor quest piece. I simply do not have the plat for this 2nd epic piece let alone the other 10 minor pieces that i most likely will have to buy because the "plat farmers" never leave the spawns.


This is leveling up and gearing for a new player in a nutshell. and it's def not classic.

That's fucked up. Do guides support extortion and allow for sockers to literally hold a camp that is needed for epic pieces and charge for their "services"?

I hope not.

TheDuck
12-15-2016, 12:45 PM
That's fucked up. Do guides support extortion and allow for sockers to literally hold a camp that is needed for epic pieces and charge for their "services"?

I hope not.

as long as the sockers, or what i like to call "plat farmers" (we know the real term for them is) follow the rules, add u to the list(it never goes anywhere) and comply with the rules they can stay at the camp all they want.

The only time they will come off it is if you petition them and the guide asks them to let you get a chance at the spawn(key word ASKS, they don't have to leave). I played live from 2 months before kunark launch to the end of PoP, not once did i ever have to contact a GM to ask people nicely to let me have a chance at the camp. lol.

Crawdad
12-15-2016, 12:51 PM
theres no variance to scout window, she pops 10hours (i think) on the dot, each and every time.
you log in for 20 secs, spam click for 5 secs and your done. Your not camping this for 10+hours, unless you like doing things the hard way.

I mean, this pretty much right here. Get rid of the monopoly and switch to randoming, throw out some DTs if some people don't want to cooperate. This is quite possibly the worst risk:reward quest in the game (in a good way), and you're letting plat farmers ruin it for by throwing plat around senselessly.

Sadiki
12-26-2016, 03:02 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, but the situation is just going downhill.

We now have a new person that now sits at all of the scout spawns, mysteriously wins every one, and sells the kill rights. This is somehow okay. Still no official comments or intervention about this behavior.

Scout is already a terrible system and people chain gating and flooding the area with illusions is borderline griefing. This server is populated with bots/farm squads that limit content for everyone who wants to actually play and enjoy EQ. I often meet people levelling who ask me about how difficult it is to complete some quest and I need to tell them that their mob has had a group of people sitting on the spawn spot for the last 2 months. The adventure is over once you hit 60.. you tunnelquest all of your needs and raiding involves staring at your screen intently for 16 hours straight for a 5 minute kill.

I feel like P99 has completely lost its purpose in favor of greed and the WoW mentality.

Swish
12-26-2016, 03:06 AM
This server is populated with bots/farm squads that limit content for everyone who wants to actually play and enjoy EQ.

I agree, end the madness and let people enjoy the server and do their own quests again.

Ivory
12-26-2016, 03:44 AM
Removing multiquesting will fix a LOT of this.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 05:18 AM
Removing multiquesting will fix a LOT of this.
QFT.

Remove multiquesting. Implement the classic Play Nice Policy, not just a cherry picked PNP. Enforce a rotation.

Mostly importantly - Take a no nonsense approach to the petition system - reading some of the comments by Sirken regarding the harassing / abuse of staff on P1999 why not just outright banhammer repeat offenders, disband guilds if they can't behave, they did it on live and it worked which is why many can't remember the stupidity you see here on live.

Server should go back to the players, not just some tards who think they're "winning"an emu server at any cost.

Edit: Another thing I'd do is put a limit on the amount of plat a single account can hold. Having accounts with literally 10's of millions of pp is a recipe for RMT. Consider you have people who are farming certain things and selling them for up to half a million pp. Even if they're not RMTíng what do you think those people will do when they decide to quit and they have 10's of millions of pp on their chars? if like someone as has said in another thread 500kpp is worth 1.5k dollars and they have no regards for the health of the server which they obviously do not what are they going to do with those 10's of millions of pp?.

Ravager
12-26-2016, 08:26 AM
I don't know how anyone ever played this game without Bracer of Benevolence.

Kaedain
12-26-2016, 10:08 AM
Benevolence
[buh-nev-uh-luh ns]
noun
1.
desire to do good to others; goodwill; charitableness:
to be filled with benevolence toward one's fellow creatures.
2.
an act of kindness; a charitable gift.

Seems a fitting name for the items now in retrospect .....

Erati
12-26-2016, 11:49 AM
theres no MQ involved in this quest-leave MQ alone some of us do the quests legitly for our alts and MQing portions is a great feature of EQ

attuning items and having quest journal check marks rather than physical drops are whats crappy ab other games- keep that shit out of classic EQ

Scout spawn has had people use illusions or sit on the spawn since day one of Velious- its an easy quest avail every 10 hr to anyone w faction - thats why its so contested and cheesed. Litterally 2/3 of the server is prob capable of attempting and its so easy u can redo the quest each spawn

the real fix is put an unclassic cool down on acquiring the scout tools from Commander Leuz

if u only allow people to have 1 Scout Tool a week, you would get rid of sellers

Ikon
12-26-2016, 12:05 PM
theres no MQ involved in this quest-leave MQ alone some of us do the quests legitly for our alts and MQing portions is a great feature of EQ

attuning items and having quest journal check marks rather than physical drops are whats crappy ab other games- keep that shit out of classic EQ

Scout spawn has had people use illusions or sit on the spawn since day one of Velious- its an easy quest avail every 10 hr to anyone w faction - thats why its so contested and cheesed. Litterally 2/3 of the server is prob capable of attempting and its so easy u can redo the quest each spawn

the real fix is put an unclassic cool down on acquiring the scout tools from Commander Leuz

if u only allow people to have 1 Scout Tool a week, you would get rid of sellers
No MQ is not okay irrespective of whether one quest does not require MQ. The understanding of the server appears to be its okay to feck anyone over and over and over for quest mob to get PP for gods knows what - maybe just for the fun of screwing them over who knows.

Whether that person has been showing up every 8 hours trying to get their quest done its completely fine to give them a big fuck you and kite the mob around for hafl an hour while your buyer logs on...

Whether someone has all their epic pieces but are lacking that one item you've had permacamped for the last 8 weeks or longer its okay to give them a big digital finger and demand 20k to 500k while you corpse the item over and over because that's a-okay on this server...

Scout is just another symptom of a toxic group of a people intent on screwing up the server for whatever mean spirited reason they can think of.... perhaps because they have 15 level 60's and not much else.

Erati
12-26-2016, 12:14 PM
lol ^

We wont miss u Ikon- find another free game

My suggestion would fix sellers but you just want the world to burn.

Maner
12-26-2016, 12:29 PM
No MQ is not okay irrespective of whether one quest does not require MQ. The understanding of the server appears to be its okay to feck anyone over and over and over for quest mob to get PP for gods knows what - maybe just for the fun of screwing them over who knows.

Whether that person has been showing up every 8 hours trying to get their quest done its completely fine to give them a big fuck you and kite the mob around for hafl an hour while your buyer logs on...

Whether someone has all their epic pieces but are lacking that one item you've had permacamped for the last 8 weeks or longer its okay to give them a big digital finger and demand 20k to 500k while you corpse the item over and over because that's a-okay on this server...

Scout is just another symptom of a toxic group of a people intent on screwing up the server for whatever mean spirited reason they can think of.... perhaps because they have 15 level 60's and not much else.

you sure are one salty little kid over the plane of hate crew. How about you step up and compete for the spawns rather than complain on the forums about them?

Ikon
12-26-2016, 01:31 PM
you sure are one salty little kid over the plane of hate crew. How about you step up and compete for the spawns rather than complain on the forums about them?
I'm no kid and I doubt you are either


lol ^

We wont miss u Ikon- find another free game

My suggestion would fix sellers but you just want the world to burn.
I'm happy here and yeah I'd like to see the farmers burn so we can play the game. I certainly would not and I doubt anyone else would miss the farmers tbfh so the feeling is mutual.

Shea
12-26-2016, 01:51 PM
Isn't this guy, Schfiftyfiver in <Paradigm Shift> ?

His loot hoarding makes sense considering the leadership and members in that guild and their general vibe.

Daldaen
12-26-2016, 01:51 PM
MultiQuesting is a classic feature of the game and we should all be glad it's in.

If you've ever raided PoSky on this server you know how awful it feels to raid with your ranger friend for a year and the one or two raids they miss out on due to RL drop the Haste Cloak from Isle4. And because they haven't retroactively fixed MQing Sky quests yet, you just had to let that rare piece rot because it can't be MQ'd.

MultiQuesting is no different from a Loot Drop. People farm Orbs of Infinite Void, Fungi Tunics and Hierophant Cloaks for purposes of sale when there are plenty of people who would like to do these camps for their own gear. This isn't any different from someone camping Scout Charissa or Vilefang to sell the MQs.

If you want a server where you can have a shot at anything I encourage you look into Phinigel. You can instance almost all raid content and force spawn different copies of static zones if they get too crowded. But P99 will never be a server where you'll have a shot at every quest and every drop camp. Some will be perma locked down forever.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 02:10 PM
MultiQuesting is a classic feature of the game but given the classic elements of rotations and the classic play nice policy are not enforced we should all be glad to get rid of it.

If you've ever raided PoF or PoH on this server you know how awful it feels to raid with your friend for a year and the minis or their mob is not up because its on farm. And because they haven't retroactively fixed the PnP yet, you just had to let that epic piece go for another week or 10.

MQíng is completely different from live because any group of characters can monopolize a unique loot drop and sell it to the highest bidder whereas enforced PnP on live meant that couldn't happen . People farm Orbs of Infinite Void, Fungi Tunics and Hierophant Cloaks for purposes of sale when there are plenty of people who would like to do these camps for their own gear and can monopolize and corner the market once again because the classic PnP policy is not enforced. This isn't any different from someone camping Scout Charissa or Vilefang to sell the MQs.

If you want a server where you can have a shot at anything I encourage you look into Phinigel because if your new and want to gear up your going to be sol here. You can instance almost all raid content and force spawn different copies of static zones if they get too crowded. But P99 will never be a server where you'll have a shot at every quest and every drop camp because its not exactly classic and we're exploiting that to the maximum. Some will be perma locked down forever, too bad so sad.

Fixed that for you

Daldaen
12-26-2016, 02:30 PM
Even if PoFear Golems didn't drop any epic pieces they'd be on farm for their other loot. Plenty of the PoHate minis are farmed for their non-epic/quest related drops as well.

People love to hate on MQs... but getting rid of them will change almost nothing other than making the server less classic.

Level requirements on epics and target limits on PBAEs were horrible non-classic changes that should be reverted. If they did anything they should just release a server with an updated timeline so Epic'd twinks aren't common and updated chase distance rules to entire zone AEs aren't as easily pullable or manageable.

But really I'm shocked how many people refuse to switch servers to one that more favors casual non-neckbeardy playstyles. If you don't like how the policies on this server are written or enforced you can easily take your ball and go elsewhere. But I suspect most people don't do this because P99 is free and other forms of entertainment are not.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 02:38 PM
Even if PoFear Golems didn't drop any epic pieces they'd be on farm for their other loot. Plenty of the PoHate minis are farmed for their non-epic/quest related drops as well.

People love to hate on MQs... but getting rid of them will change almost nothing other than making the server less classic.

Level requirements on epics and target limits on PBAEs were horrible non-classic changes that should be reverted. If they did anything they should just release a server with an updated timeline so Epic'd twinks aren't common and updated chase distance rules to entire zone AEs aren't as easily pullable or manageable.

But really I'm shocked how many people refuse to switch servers to one that more favors casual non-neckbeardy playstyles. If you don't like how the policies on this server are written or enforced you can easily take your ball and go elsewhere. But I suspect most people don't do this because P99 is free and other forms of entertainment are not.
If we had the classic PnP policies the server would be more classic. You could not farm to this extent on live because of the PnP policies. You were forced to share and if you didn't ban, if your guild didn't check you, disbanded.

People hate on MQ because without the classic enforced sharing MQ are exploitable to an extreme - this is exactly why Verant in this timeline enforced the PnP. Getting rid of MQ would free up almost every MQáble camp including most epic camps. You would not farm it if you could not sell it.

Championing the word "classic" to defend something that creates the most unclassic experience on the server is pure hypocrisy.


I'm shocked how many people refuse to switch servers to one that more favors farming and non-classic mechanics when this server is supposed to be about the classic experience. If you don't like classic ever-quest why would you sign up to a classic everquest server? Why not take your ball and go elsewhere. But I suspect most people don't do this because P99 is free and other forms of entertainment are not.

Daldaen
12-26-2016, 03:05 PM
There was no classic enforced sharing that extended all the way down to this low tier of targets. Several servers did have some raid rotations but there certainly was no enforcement on something like Scout.

I'm all about classic mechanics. I don't care about the classic experience. That's subjective and interpreted different ways by everyone. And about 98/100 times the developers and managers of this server agree with me. Thats why I'm here. Basically the extent of my existence on this server anymore is to bug report things which do not reflect classic mechanics.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 03:12 PM
There was no classic enforced sharing that extended all the way down to this low tier of targets. Several servers did have some raid rotations but there certainly was no enforcement on something like Scout.

I'm all about classic mechanics. I don't care about the classic experience. That's subjective and interpreted different ways by everyone. And about 98/100 times the developers and managers of this server agree with me. Thats why I'm here. Basically the extent of my existence on this server anymore is to bug report things which do not reflect classic mechanics.
You're incorrect; there was enforcement all the way down to experience only mobs - discussion and evidence has already been posted. Take a look down at the thread " in regards to monopolizing spawns". Its irrefutable.

Maner
12-26-2016, 03:19 PM
If we had the classic PnP policies the server would be more classic. You could not farm to this extent on live because of the PnP policies. You were forced to share and if you didn't ban, if your guild didn't check you, disbanded.

People hate on MQ because without the classic enforced sharing MQ are exploitable to an extreme - this is exactly why Verant in this timeline enforced the PnP. Getting rid of MQ would free up almost every MQáble camp including most epic camps. You would not farm it if you could not sell it.

Championing the word "classic" to defend something that creates the most unclassic experience on the server is pure hypocrisy.

I'm shocked how many people refuse to switch servers to one that more favors farming and non-classic mechanics when this server is supposed to be about the classic experience. If you don't like classic ever-quest why would you sign up to a classic everquest server? Why not take your ball and go elsewhere. But I suspect most people don't do this because P99 is free and other forms of entertainment are not.

you quoted a PnP policy before that was rarely actually enforced if enforced at all across all servers. Camps were monopolized on live as well, I remember the same groups of people camping king in seb and BM in velks on live on a daily basis.

You also apparently still dont realize how the PoH minis work. There are place holders for the minis. If you dont clear those place holders then the mini you are after will never spawn. You can go days of clearing place holders and never see a magi for example. You expecting to port up and find the mini you are looking for up and waiting seems like entitlement.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 03:22 PM
you quoted a PnP policy before that was rarely actually enforced if enforced at all across all servers. Camps were monopolized on live as well, I remember the same groups of people camping king in seb and BM in velks on live on a daily basis.

You also apparently still dont realize how the PoH minis work. There are place holders for the minis. If you dont clear those place holders then the mini you are after will never spawn. You can go days of clearing place holders and never see a magi for example. You expecting to port up and find the mini you are looking for up and waiting seems like entitlement.
Please post your evidence that "PnP was rarely actually enforced" - I posted mine to the effect that it was enforced.

You're memory is irrelevant - you are one person on one or a few servers with the hindsight of just your own experiences of 16 years ago.

Fasttimes
12-26-2016, 03:24 PM
Please post your evidence that "PnP was rarely actually enforced" - I posted mine to the effect that it was enforced.

You're memory is irrelevant - you are one person on one or a few servers with the hindsight of just your own experiences of 16 years ago.

You sir need a safe space

Maner
12-26-2016, 03:26 PM
Please post your evidence that "PnP was rarely actually enforced" - I posted mine to the effect that it was enforced.

You're memory is irrelevant - you are one person on one or a few servers with the hindsight of just your own experiences of 16 years ago.

the evidence you posted was one person from one server....

Ikon
12-26-2016, 03:43 PM
the evidence you posted was one person from one server....
I count 64 individual people in the thread I linked. I also linked another thread with multiple others discussing the enforcing of the PnP. I also linked the announcement by Sony / Verants Gordon Wrinn, original CSR and then lead dev as well as his post announcement that it was implemented and enforced. I'll leave you with one of the comments from a post from 2000.

<<<Look, before PnP, EQ had gotten to the point where people began to think that once they got to a spawn first they "owned it". I think much of that attitude still permeates today, which is why Verant had to issue the PnP policies. Back in the good old days (over a year ago) people would allow anyone who walked up to a spawn to rotate in. There was generally no need for GM's to moderate anything. Unfortunately this system slowly deteriorated with the farming, uberguilds, twinkers, and powerlevelers to the point where people thought they owned camps. In fact, you could have logged in to Lake Rathe and seen a dozen ooc shouts saying: "Is xyz camped", "Yes, xyz is camped." Which was basically totally bs, and meant, yeah, it's our camp, go away. So Verant finally responded with PnP rules, which have come way too late to change the attitudes of the thousands of powercampers on the servers who think that first come means forever served.>>>
Where did you look at the negative aspects of PnP?

<<<I've played the game a long time and I totally disagree that pnp was not needed. I'm not a newbie, or a child, and I can tell you that the whole attitude of "this is my camp, go away" had gotten RIDICULOUS before pnp was implemented. People just took over in a way that forced Verant to implement some kind of policy, however inadequate to deal with it. I had long arguments with people prior to pnp who honestly felt that if they had a camp staked it it was THEIRS, and they didn't have to share it. Well, Verant pretty much backed up my side of the argument with a big I DON'T THINK SO to all the powercampers. You don't own anything in this game, especially spawn sites. If you can't find a way to rotate people in immediately then you don't need to play a multiplayer game. There shouldn't have to be any begging, or bickering over camps. If someone shows up they have just as much right to get into the rotation as the people sitting there. Period.>>>

Again, where did you look at the negative aspects of PnP?

<<<Just because there are plenty of places to fight doesn't mean any player has the right to say "this is mine, go somewhere else." Nothing in the game is owned by any player. Period. So a spawn site is already crowded and you don't want to share? Tough luck. The guy who just walked up to the spawn has the exact same right to fight there as you do. This first come, it's mine garbage is just that. Garbage. So the game is crowded and you don't want to share your camp? Tough, the game is crowded for everyone. It doesn't mean you get the right to monopolize a spawn because people can "fight somewhere else." If you don't want to share, YOU go fight somewhere else.>>>

Negative aspects? I guess not.

<<<Lucy, I think that the PnP system works exactly as it should in this case. I understand how the HK system works and it's wrong. Why? Because it's EXACTLY the reason that Verant implemented the PnP rules in the first place. Making up a list of people and allowing them to rotate in when other people leave is not the way Verant wants the game played, and neither do the majority of players. That's called monopolizing a spawn, and it stinks. The only way people are allowed into the rotation is when someone decides to leave. I don't pay $9.95 a month, just like everyone else in the game, so I can wait around until some guy decides he's done fighting. I'll make this very clear, and this is what Verant has already stated: Anyone who walks up to a camp has the right to be put into the rotation IMMEDIATELY. That DOESN'T mean they get to skip people on the list, or move ahead of anyone who is waiting. It means that they get to fight after the LAST person there gets their turn. What is wrong with that??

People think that if there are already 6 people there, the spawn should be closed to new people, so they don't have to share xp. Sorry, but just because the servers are overcrowded doesn't give anyone a right to close down a spawn and claim ownership. The servers are crowded for everyone and I don't know where in the world people think that first come gives them entitlment. I repeat, NO ONE gets to walk up and start fighting at a spawn out of turn under PnP rules. All they do is force groups to let new people into the rotation immediately upon arriving, in a FAIR and appropriate order to when they arrived. Why is that so hard to comprehend. No one is being cheated. No one gets to fight out of order. I have seen a full rotation used with 15 people in the old days and no one had a problem. If you have a problem with too many people being in a rotation at a spawn then complain to Verant about overcrowding or go to another spawn. You don't get the right to force people to wait on a list until you decide you're done fighting.>>>

I'm still looking for those negative aspects...

I'm not gonna put up anymore of your posts because they all say the same thing. I do however want to address your issue with lists not providing equal access to spawn. I disagree with that. If EVERYONE abides by the same rules and uses the previous system of waiting on a list, I don't see how it is unfair. There is something called common courtesy, where you wait your turn for something.

The reason I continued to point out that you did not address the negative aspects of PnP in your posts is because you are being a hippocrit. You blindly support PnP refusing to acknowledge it's downsides. Before you accuse others of being ignorant and blind, maybe you should look at all sides to the arguement first.

Enuff said. Evidence.

Maner
12-26-2016, 03:46 PM
I count 64 individual people in the thread I linked. I also linked another thread with multiple others discussing the enforcing of the PnP. I also linked the announcement by Sony / Verants Gordon Wrinn, original CSR and then lead dev as well as his post announcement that it was implemented and enforced. I'll leave you with one of the comments from a post from 2000.



Enuff said. Evidence.

none of that says anything about it being enforced on a regular basis or across all servers.... i know for a fact that there were respected camps all the way through omens on the server i played on, which is when i quit live. You zoned in did a CC and took something that wasn't already camped. you didn't show up and demand to share a spawn.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 03:58 PM
none of that says anything about it being enforced on a regular basis or across all servers.... i know for a fact that there were respected camps all the way through omens on the server i played on, which is when i quit live. You zoned in did a CC and took something that wasn't already camped. you didn't show up and demand to share a spawn.
:rolleyes:

Relax I doubt the devs here will change anything - you've already screwed the server beyond saving imo.

I'm in the middle of spending thousands of pp to quest my newbie ranger a trueshot, posting in downtime, now given I could buy one for 400pp Im hardly invested in a change either way.

I play for fun and get my feelings of success in real life rather than by wearing a sword of uberness or breastplate of Farmage in emu-eq. I wont ever be competing for your pp farms except at very low levels.

But I do enjoy a good debate so here I am.

Deny my evidence if it makes you feel more secure but your "memories" and logical conclusions just don't add up.

Fasttimes
12-26-2016, 04:00 PM
:rolleyes:

Relax I doubt the devs here will change anything - you've already screwed the server beyond saving imo.

I'm in the middle of spending thousands of pp to quest my newbie ranger a trueshot, posting in downtime, now given I could buy one for 400pp Im hardly invested in a change either way.

I play for fun and get my feelings of success in real life rather than by wearing a sword of uberness or breastplate of Farmage in emu-eq. I wont ever be competing for your pp farms except at very low levels.

But I do enjoy a good debate so here I am.

Deny my evidence if it makes you feel more secure but your "memories" and logical conclusions just don't add up.

You say all this and post long ass evidence and thesis.
How can you say I don't get my feelings wrapped up and stress the hell out of this thread.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 04:07 PM
You say all this and post long ass evidence and thesis.
How can you say I don't get my feelings wrapped up and stress the hell out of this thread.
I enjoy researching. Its what I do for a living. I can say it because its true, why would I get stressed discussing something with anoms on a message board. Its easy to tell if a person is emotionally invested in what they're saying - they usually say it offensively or with aggression and with little impartiality.

Fasttimes
12-26-2016, 04:08 PM
I enjoy researching. Its what I do for a living. I can say it because its true, why would I get stressed discussing something with anoms on a message board. Its easy to tell if a person is emotionally invested in what they're saying - they usually say it offensively or with aggression and with little impartiality.

Shrug just sounds like a cop out. If I didn't care I wouldn't even bother to debate I would just go about my business. To each there own.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 04:19 PM
Shrug just sounds like a cop out. If I didn't care I wouldn't even bother to debate I would just go about my business. To each there own.
I didn't say I don't care. Everquest was the very first game I played as an MMO. Classic Everquest is imo still the best made, most complex and difficult MMO to have ever existed. I don't like that people are exploiting MQ in the absence of the PnP at the expense of other people who want to enjoy classic Everquest. I don't like the fact it makes more sense to buy level 50 attainable gear by farming pp than it does to run level appropriate dungeons and loot your own gear. I also don't like the fact that the majority of the quest rewards in game are pointless to do. I don't like the fact that people are cockblocking people from doing what I did on live, experiencing the reward of questing their own epic.

So in that sense I do care. But I doubt it will be changed at this point in time. That still doesn't mean I don't enjoy arguing the point and making farmers feel uncomfortable. |Its fun.

Fasttimes
12-26-2016, 04:21 PM
I didn't say I don't care. Everquest was the very first game I played as an MMO. Classic Everquest is imo still the best made, most complex and difficult MMO to have ever existed. I don't like that people are exploiting MQ in the absence of the PnP at the expense of other people who want to enjoy classic Everquest. I don't like the fact it makes more sense to buy level 50 attainable gear by farming pp than it does to run level appropriate dungeons and loot your own gear. I also don't like the fact that the majority of the quest rewards in game are pointless to do. I don't like the fact that people are cockblocking people from doing what I did on live, experiencing the reward of questing their own epic.

So in that sense I do care. But I doubt it will be changed at this point in time. That still doesn't mean I don't enjoy arguing the point and making farmers feel uncomfortable. |Its fun.

Cool I'm similar Cept I don't like when people whine that they can't achieve something.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 04:34 PM
Cool I'm similar Cept I don't like when people whine that they can't achieve something.
Its not whining if the concern is valid. You're freedom, wages, civil rights and ability to do countless things, including access to the internet to play games, is the result of a very long history of people "whining" that they were being cockblocked by the elite from doing stuff in RL.

Fasttimes
12-26-2016, 04:36 PM
Its not whining if the concern is valid. You're freedom, wages, civil rights and ability to do countless things, including access to the internet to play games, is the result of a very long history of people "whining" that they were being cockblocked by the elite from doing stuff in RL.

Actually was from people doing not whining. I was 35e radio com/sec repair. I understand doing. Whining is what millennials do.

TheDuck
12-26-2016, 04:40 PM
TLDR plat farmers (you know what they really are) dominate every important camp on blue server, person raises legit point about it, trolls troll him, people vested in keeping status quo (plat *cough* farmers) known to blue for doing it come and defend the practice saying "it's classic".

even more TLDR ur forced to buy everything thru plat on this server, you cant camp anything. he is mad he has to do this instead of playing game as intented.

Fasttimes
12-26-2016, 04:41 PM
TLDR plat farmers (you know what they really are) dominate every important camp on blue server, person raises legit point about it, trolls troll him, people vested in keeping status quo (plat *cough* farmers) known to blue for doing it come and defend the practice saying "it's classic".

even more TLDR ur forced to buy everything thru plat on this server, you cant camp anything. he is mad he has to do this instead of playing game as intented.

Farming isn't hard if you want specific camps it maybe camped but that's classic.

TheDuck
12-26-2016, 04:46 PM
Farming isn't hard if you want specific camps it maybe camped but that's classic.

it's not classic when the same group of 3 people have been sitting on that camp for 3 years monopolizing it down to a science where u have a VERY limited window to actually get on the camp.

^sums up every uncommon and rare camp on p99. and if u say im full of shit i don't know what to tell you. go camp yourself a levi cloak, or jboots. and those are just low level things. It was NEVER intended/classic to farm jboots for 3 years straight.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 04:46 PM
Actually was from people doing not whining. I was 35e radio com/sec repair. I understand doing. Whining is what millennials do.
Guess it depends on your perspective. Everything starts off with a complaint. You don't go from not being able to vote or work to being able to vote and work without some initial whining before your action. There's always a bit of an expression of dissatisfaction before action occurs.

Getting back to P1999 go to rants and flames, or the bugs forum, take a look at the history of P1999, most of the major changes started out with someone posting a thread that someone else considered to be whining.

TheDuck
12-26-2016, 04:50 PM
tunnelquesting is a thing. and its actually a faster route to get pixels. set up by these underground plat farming groups. They want to make it easy for u to buy everything with plat because what is plat tied to? they intentionally farm items that they don't need just so there is no access to them on the market except through their groups.

tunnelquesting was a thing on live, but not to this extent, not to this level of organization going on to cockblock and FORCE you to tunnelquest in order for these people to turn a $$plat$$. my point is. it is classic that it be easyer for a newb to camp his jboots, than to farm 5k and pay for them. But its the reverse on the emu. its faster to farm raw plat then try to camp them.

thats not classic, nor working as intended

spanky_kc
12-26-2016, 05:03 PM
So many cry babies about MQ's, Epic Farming , etc. How about you get some stones and get some friends willing to compete for content then just have it given to you. Kids these days expect a trophy and a medal for everything and just cry wolf when they don't get their way and spread rumors of training, hacking, etc. Meanwhile ppl are frame-clipping to get FTE's in ToV b/c that is what the raid scene has come to. You can either A. keep crying about it, B. do your own research and be competitive.

Andos
12-26-2016, 05:07 PM
So many cry babies about MQ's, Epic Farming , etc. How about you get some stones and get some friends willing to compete for content then just have it given to you. Kids these days expect a trophy and a medal for everything and just cry wolf when they don't get their way and spread rumors of training, hacking, etc. Meanwhile ppl are frame-clipping to get FTE's in ToV b/c that is what the raid scene has come to. You can either A. keep crying about it, B. do your own research and be competitive.

We don't all get to play 14 hours a day from our mom's basement.

spanky_kc
12-26-2016, 05:09 PM
We don't all get to play 14 hours a day from our mom's basement.

I know some people do. Poor souls.

Ikon
12-26-2016, 05:12 PM
So many cry babies about MQ's, Epic Farming , etc. How about you get some stones and get some friends willing to compete for content then just have it given to you. Kids these days expect a trophy and a medal for everything and just cry wolf when they don't get their way and spread rumors of training, hacking, etc. Meanwhile ppl are frame-clipping to get FTE's in ToV b/c that is what the raid scene has come to. You can either A. keep crying about it, B. do your own research and be competitive.
^^ the aforementioned "emotive" post :D

Sadiki
12-26-2016, 05:13 PM
How about you get some stones and get some friends willing to compete for content then just have it given to you
This makes absolutely no sense in the context of this thread..

spanky_kc
12-26-2016, 05:16 PM
If you do not know how to do scout turn in, I will Gladly tell you in PM's. It took me a very long time of trial and error to figure it out. But..From the original poster made Schifty most likely uses autofire so you can usually never beat him.

skipdog
12-28-2016, 03:34 PM
it's not classic when the same group of 3 people have been sitting on that camp for 3 years monopolizing it down to a science where u have a VERY limited window to actually get on the camp.

^sums up every uncommon and rare camp on p99. and if u say im full of shit i don't know what to tell you. go camp yourself a levi cloak, or jboots. and those are just low level things. It was NEVER intended/classic to farm jboots for 3 years straight.

Give some examples of where the same people have locked down any particular camp for 3 years straight?

The concept that 'every uncommon and rare camp are permacamped and you can never get them' is an absolute joke of a statement that is not true at all. It takes persistence and effort to get some of these valuable camps and when many people want them, they will be taken by SOMEONE a majority of the time. That doesn't mean they are permacamped and impossible to get access to. You just have to put in effort.

Your posts just sound like someone whining because valuable camps are hotly contested on a regular basis. It's not some elite pool of plat farmers locking down everything in a big coordinated effort for them to RMT. It's just individuals going to profitable camps to make some plat to buy some pixels for their characters. It's always been this way even in classic EQ, although back then camps involving MQs were not as common.

Lammy
12-28-2016, 03:42 PM
We don't all get to play 14 hours a day from our mom's basement.

That guy is so immersed that at this point it isn't worth arguing about. He's frothing so passionately about participation trophies in a virtual world, that he can't control his run on sentences long enough to see anyone's real life perspective.