******Official politics thread ******

[Irulan]

I meant rot, failure to develop into a productive human being, can occur at any level. it happens more often at the bottom because it is difficult to acquire the behavioral resources necessary for success if they are not already in the family. money doesn't fix everything.

I liked the last sentence in that first paragraph though lol

Also, your choice of work isn't a bad aspiration either.

Yes.

[Wonkie]

what if the thing the person is unhappy about is the value of their labor being stolen? is that also their own fault?

:rolleyes:

[America]

what if the thing the person is unhappy about is the value of their labor being stolen? is that also their own fault?

:rolleyes:

pls explain. you mean taxation? or employment? not sure what angle you're goin for

[maskedmelon]

what if the thing the person is unhappy about is the value of their labor being stolen? is that also their own fault?

:rolleyes:

this doesn't seem like serious question.

*glowers at the little dog*

[Irulan]

Throndor = Xaanka? Feels like the tent city and street rat at 16 is a Xaanka comment.

[JurisDictum]

pls explain. you mean taxation? or employment? not sure what angle you're goin for

There's the cost of labor,

The cost of materials,

The cost of management,

Then there is surplus.

The surplus produced goes a 100% to the "owner" of the venture. But that "owner" didn't do anything except own something. The owner can do other things on the list above, but that is beside the point.

The point is, the owner was not producing any value by owning anything. They merely claim it belongs to them by right.

Capitalism is based on people that are productive being paid less than they actually produce.

This is a necessary evil to get "investment" to start the venture in some cases. Especially in early human development. But after awhile, it is no longer necessary to set up the system that way.

That's the bases of Marxist theory. Capitalism is a phase in history were those that "own stuff" (starting with feudalism) invest in ventures to get more. Then Socialism comes along, and the productive members of the venture seize control over the "means of production."

Because their working/producing and the owner isn't.

and there is a whole list of reasons why that is inevitable. Starting with "concentration of capital" where a small group eventually own everything and use market power to take more and more for themselves until all the workers are subsistence workers.

[maskedmelon]

i got what you meant silly ^^ my post reflects it!~

oh okay. you're post read like it was parodying mine, so I thought maybe I wasn't communicating effectively. I wasn't saying that trust funds make people unhappy. to the contrary, they very likely make many people happy. I am also sure most people would like to have one and they would enjoy many benefits with one (I wouldn't mind to have one!) It would not however necessarily grant them or allow them to acquire the skills necessary to become a productive and responsible human being. If we are talking about a scenario of unlimited resources, then maybe that doesn't matter. When everything automates later this century,maybe none of it will matter. if so, that's fantastic. I've seen when "help" hurts though by stifling or completely arresting growth many, many, many times and so I remain cautious of help without direction/conditions.

[maskedmelon]

There's the cost of labor,

The cost of materials,

The cost of management,

Then there is surplus.

The surplus produced goes a 100% to the "owner" of the venture. But that "owner" didn't do anything except own something. The owner can do other things on the list above, but that is beside the point.

The point is, the owner was not producing any value by owning anything. They merely claim it belongs to them by right.

Capitalism is based on people that are productive being paid less than they actually produce.

This is a necessary evil to get "investment" to start the venture in some cases. Especially in early human development. But after awhile, it is no longer necessary to set up the system that way.

That's the bases of Marxist theory. Capitalism is a phase in history were those that "own stuff" (starting with feudalism) invest in ventures to get more. Then Socialism comes along, and the productive members of the venture seize control over the "means of production."

Because their working/producing and the owner isn't.

and there is a whole list of reasons why that is inevitable. Starting with "concentration of capital" where a small group eventually own everything and use market power to take more and more for themselves until all the workers are subsistence workers.

I don't know that seizing has ever worked out well. success must be throttled to maintain competition and innovation. that much is certain. Performance also increases when employees are the only shareholders.

[JurisDictum]

Were living in a country seized from natives that goes around the world seizing natural resources. Seizing works great.

Doesn't have to be armed revolution though.

The real anti-Marx argument is basically that government spending and wealth transfers will redirect resources enough to prevent this from happening. Marx never saw the rise of the American Middle Class....which happened around post FDR I might add.

But modern Marxists just argued that the real "proletariat" or underclass, was in 3rd world countries. It all starts getting convoluted and I'm actually about to take off.

[I Felt Nostalgic]

Guys, the world is going to end in 12 years according to Beto and Alexandria so does any of this really matter?

[JurisDictum]

Spoken like an idiot who hasn't owned a business before.

The owner doesn't take 100% of the "surplus".

If he did his business would fail real quick.

Most of that money goes back into the business.

The owner is also responsible, takes all the risks, etc.

The employees also get paid before the owner does and I know plenty of owners who go without pay when times get hard.

Let me know when regular employees work 12 to 15 hours a day.

I recommend that you start a business. You'll shut the fuck up really fast when you do.

The old "he takes risk" argument.

What "risk"? Risk losing what is unjustly "owned"?

This is a macro meta-theory that can't be reduced into how I feel once I own a business. This waaaay above all that shit.

It's about what moves the human race forward.

[Wonkie]

The old "he takes risk" argument.

What "risk"? Risk losing what is unjustly "owned"?

This is a macro meta-theory that can't be reduced into how I feel once I own a business. This waaaay above all that shit.

It's about what moves the human race forward.

he who owns the business owner owns (most of) the world :)

[America]

There's the cost of labor,

The cost of materials,

The cost of management,

Then there is surplus.

The surplus produced goes a 100% to the "owner" of the venture. But that "owner" didn't do anything except own something. The owner can do other things on the list above, but that is beside the point.

The point is, the owner was not producing any value by owning anything. They merely claim it belongs to them by right.

Capitalism is based on people that are productive being paid less than they actually produce.

This is a necessary evil to get "investment" to start the venture in some cases. Especially in early human development. But after awhile, it is no longer necessary to set up the system that way.

That's the bases of Marxist theory. Capitalism is a phase in history were those that "own stuff" (starting with feudalism) invest in ventures to get more. Then Socialism comes along, and the productive members of the venture seize control over the "means of production."

Because their working/producing and the owner isn't.

and there is a whole list of reasons why that is inevitable. Starting with "concentration of capital" where a small group eventually own everything and use market power to take more and more for themselves until all the workers are subsistence workers.

yes, I understand that Marxism is the violation of contract, oath and law to seize property from its rightful owner and steward. Demonstrably wrecking that stewardship in all of the examples tried. Borne of envy. That's my point, too!

edit: oh i forgot you're addressing pokesan's troll question. no, i'm sorry, but you weren't robbed when you entered a contract under no duress or deceit and the terms were honored. Own a business and keep it alive, passing it down through 3 generations until it gains vast value, but that ought to be worth nothing because your great-grandchildren "aren't the ones doing the mining". That's envy and it's dumb.

Obviously the venture is worth something if it's a shiny enough coin to unite the peasantry in betraying decency to thieve it.

oh okay. you're post read like it was parodying mine, so I thought maybe I wasn't communicating effectively. I wasn't saying that trust funds make people unhappy. to the contrary, they very likely make many people happy. I am also sure most people would like to have one and they would enjoy many benefits with one (I wouldn't mind to have one!) It would not however necessarily grant them or allow them to acquire the skills necessary to become a productive and responsible human being. If we are talking about a scenario of unlimited resources, then maybe that doesn't matter. When everything automates later this century,maybe none of it will matter. if so, that's fantastic. I've seen when "help" hurts though by stifling or completely arresting growth many, many, many times and so I remain cautious of help without direction/conditions.

no I was being unironic ^^ plenty fucks people up when there are no expectations or responsibilities.

For instance -- a royal in feudal times might be very likely to die by the sword, and to spend his and her life aggressively engaged in networking, socialization, ceremony, and other nonsense which is nonetheless hard work, despite its position and wealth.

Notch, meanwhile, wealthier than a 14th century kang in share of materials though poorer in share of violence, spews transphobic stuff on Twitter and looks like a 'cheetoh fiend'. He wakes up hung over a lot.

[Irulan]

yes, I understand that Marxism is the violation of contract, oath and law to seize property from its rightful owner and steward. Demonstrably wrecking that stewardship in all of the examples tried. Borne of envy. That's my point, too!



no I was being unironic ^^ plenty fucks people up when there are no expectations or responsibilities.

For instance -- a royal in feudal times might be very likely to die by the sword, and to spend his and her life aggressively engaged in networking, socialization, ceremony, and other nonsense which is nonetheless hard work, despite its position and wealth.

Notch, meanwhile, wealthier than a 14th century kang in share of materials though poorer in share of violence, spews transphobic stuff on Twitter and looks like a 'cheetoh fiend'. He wakes up hung over a lot.

:)

[Irulan]

More worried about the reefs food chain ph. And plankton blooms than tempatures and climate. Most of all that is driven by pollution.

[America]

Were living in a country seized from natives that goes around the world seizing natural resources. Seizing works great.

Doesn't have to be armed revolution though.

The real anti-Marx argument is basically that government spending and wealth transfers will redirect resources enough to prevent this from happening. Marx never saw the rise of the American Middle Class....which happened around post FDR I might add.

But modern Marxists just argued that the real "proletariat" or underclass, was in 3rd world countries. It all starts getting convoluted and I'm actually about to take off.

So you admit that it is a violent imperialism of the proletariat. It's thuggery distilled into politic.

I'm not making a moral argument here. It is morally equivalent to the international thuggery we engage in now. Except that it's less stable. It slows down our outgrowing this nonsense by game-changing with technology.

PS: you're right that it doesn't have to be an armed revolution. Democracy provides 1 of the two primary "social flex mechanisms" that abstract violence into football points so you can have social change without bloodshed. Capitalism providing the other. It's hubris to imagine that we are capable of governing ourselves top-down without a machine that can squeeze and twist to and fro and occasionally cannibalize even the very very rich and powerful. Esp. with so many examples of the central model failing.

My thoughts are not organized very well today!

[Wonkie]

Check this out kids.......

Fill up a cup with water to the brim.....

Add ice to it so that some ice floats above the surface and causes excess water to overflow the cup

Put the cup on a plate and let the ice melt.


Does the cup's water level rise as the ice melts causing additional overflow that cannot be attributed to condensation?

this is mad funny and im lolin at you

the things you learn in mensa :D

[Wonkie]

Look at the link i posted dipshit. The calculation for all of the ice caps in the world (the larger one which is actually growing, included) accounts for about 5 ft of water spread across the entire ocean....WITHOUt taking into account the subsurface ice that is already displacing water.


Now given that less than half of the 5ish ft of potential water from icecaps is shrinking, and the fact that the ices weight is displacing seawater while it floats atop of it indicates that it is literally impossible to see a 3 ft rise in sea level that your catastrophists keep stating is inevitable in the next TEN years

antarctica is a landmass. ice doesn't float on land.

thanks for coming to my ted talk

[America]

antarctica is a landmass. ice doesn't float on land.

thanks for coming to my ted talk

big dunk :D

[misterbonkers]

When your fat ass is filling up a 128oz quadruple gulp coca cola at 711 if you add ice (which im assuming youve never done since that would be less soda for your fat ass) and you dont drink it fast enough....does the ice melt and cause ur soda to spill out of the cupholder in your mobility scooter?

according to google, a double gulp is 64 ounces.

quadruple is a double double

64 times 2 is 128

math checks out, wonkie

checkmate

[Wonkie]

according to google, a double gulp is 64 ounces.

quadruple is a double double

64 times 2 is 128

math checks out, wonkie

checkmate

that just makes me wanna go to the movies and get a coke in a popcorn tub like i did as a teenager

[Wonkie]

Antarctica is not shrinking.

The arctic and greenland alledgely are.

Most of the arctic is floating without land underneath it.


Antarctica is apparently, expanding...well past its landmass that resides beneath part of its surface.

nasa say it do. i trust me a spaceman over a tentman.

[I Felt Nostalgic]

I know right!

With just a 3 foot rise in sea level......


Hahahahahahahahahaha a fucking 3 foot rise in sea level...hahahahahahahahaha

https://i.imgur.com/GknkmON.gif

[Wonkie]

Big dunk :D

i skimmed 1 article and thought of an insult, sue me :p

[I Felt Nostalgic]

nasa say it do. i trust me a spaceman over a tentman.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...er-than-losses

Checkmate. Faggot.

https://i.imgur.com/ViES30L.gif

[Wonkie]

it's not like i can un-call you a tentman. you'll recover someday i hope.

[America]

Yeah i was studying bio and chem while doing it too, with a bunch of premed kids leaning heavily on me to help walk them through the homework and exam prep. Basically teaching our future doctors the actual subjects whilst our professors were more concerned with monopolizing class time putting the subjects "in context" with sociological and global warming tropes.

sounds like you went to a shitty institution :)

[I Felt Nostalgic]

Yeah i was studying bio and chem while doing it too, with a bunch of premed kids leaning heavily on me to help walk them through the homework and exam prep. Basically teaching our future doctors the actual subjects whilst our professors were more concerned with monopolizing class time putting the subjects "in context" with sociological and global warming tropes.
Sounds like you went to USC or Stanford.

[Irulan]

that just makes me wanna go to the movies and get a coke in a popcorn tub like i did as a teenager

I can still do this if I want and it would hardly affect me due to my overall modality.

It would taste weird AF tho. I have not had coke since I tried 1 sip in the "day room" so. I immediately recovered it and it was probably the last time I will try to drink it. I suppose I will attempt the popcorn coated in salty oils again one day.

[Irulan]

Do they really sell quadruples?

[Caldwin]

Dude. I lived in a fucking tent while borrowing money that i pay back, with interest, for my education, and took a minimum wage job in nowhere oregon for 6 months to be able to buy a car so that i could relocate to the bay area and sleep in said car for another 6 months to rebuild my life from absolute zero.

Gtfo of here with your theories on how no one does anything on their own. Ur fucking retarded. I dont owe you or anyone else a fucking thing.

Its not even the first time i rebuilt my life from absolute zero. Ur just a whiny ass entitled pussy. Moved out of my parents at 16 and never looked back. Ur such a fucking weak ass queef

The thing the left doesn't understand is in the US we're not a class system, not yet that is. People move up and down the economic ladder all the time. In a class system, like with a King, Emperor or other dictatorship, people are stuck in their class, especially the poor peasant. The more freedom a society has, the more mobility the individual has. It's all up to the individual to make what life he/she chooses.

[Wonkie]

On top of the fact that im completely underwhelmed by the simplicity of my 7th graders (1 year later) woods class, they also required me "donating" 60$ in "materials" for her to take the fucking class in an era of time where state-level taxation is SUBSTANTIALLY higher than it was when i was a child. Woods was a free elective in 1991 when i was a 6th grader. How does commiefornia keep managing to do LESS with MORE than they have ever had before!?

We're talking about a state that has been held with a Democrat stranglehold for the past century.

population growth

hope this helps

[Caldwin]

There's the cost of labor,

The cost of materials,

The cost of management,

Then there is surplus.

The surplus produced goes a 100% to the "owner" of the venture. But that "owner" didn't do anything except own something. The owner can do other things on the list above, but that is beside the point.

The point is, the owner was not producing any value by owning anything. They merely claim it belongs to them by right.

Capitalism is based on people that are productive being paid less than they actually produce.

This is a necessary evil to get "investment" to start the venture in some cases. Especially in early human development. But after awhile, it is no longer necessary to set up the system that way.

That's the bases of Marxist theory. Capitalism is a phase in history were those that "own stuff" (starting with feudalism) invest in ventures to get more. Then Socialism comes along, and the productive members of the venture seize control over the "means of production."

Because their working/producing and the owner isn't.

and there is a whole list of reasons why that is inevitable. Starting with "concentration of capital" where a small group eventually own everything and use market power to take more and more for themselves until all the workers are subsistence workers.

This doesn't describe free market capitalism at all. Not that we have a whole lot of free market in the US nowadays with all the regulations and redistribution of wealth, not to mention lobbyists that marry big corporations with big government. If it wasn't for big government, I doubt very much we would have monopolistic big corporations.

In a free market, someone gets an idea, creates a product or does a service that people may want and starts a business to sell that product or service. Yes, he wants a profit for his idea and investment. And why shouldn't he? If the business is successful and it grows, he will need help. So he hires one or more employees. But, he can only pay them so much, and the market and sales will determine the rate. So, he is happy for getting something for his idea, the customer is happy for whatever product or service he receives and the employee is happy to be making some money.

But, when you start redistributing his profits in the form of huge taxes and fees for running the business and piling on draconian regulations, he may have second thoughts about even starting a business, or may not want to expand it. And, who would want innovate and start a business if as soon as he becomes successful the government swoops in and takes more of his profits, whether through taxes or minimum wages. Redistribution of wealth is theft. Speaking of minimum wages, if governments keep upping the minimum wages the way they are, more people will be priced out of a job, especially for the low skilled starter jobs. Whenever I hear the protests of fast food stores saying they need to make a living wage, I roll my eyes. The typical fast food job isn't supposed to support a "living". Those jobs are supposed to be starter jobs for teenagers or people going to college... not to make a career out of it.

Excessive taxes, fees and regulations stifle innovation (innovation that may save someones life or solve the energy problems, etc.) and are a barrier to the little guy, since big corporations have the resources to pay or circumvent the taxes and fees, and can afford a legal department to deal with all the regulations... regulations they probably lobbied for in the first place to keep the little guy out.

I'd rather have a small government that leaves people alone to prosper in a free market, than to have big government in bed with big corporations. Maybe then there would be much better competition where everyone wins. Because with true competition, there would be lower costs, better quality, more ideas to solve problems and even competition for workers (i.e. higher wages).

[Caldwin]

everyone doesnt get to be rich.

That's for sure. The problem with redistribution of wealth is everyone (except the ruling class) is equal... equally poor.

[Caldwin]

Spoken like an idiot who hasn't owned a business before.

The owner doesn't take 100% of the "surplus".

If he did his business would fail real quick.

Most of that money goes back into the business.

The owner is also responsible, takes all the risks, etc.

The employees also get paid before the owner does and I know plenty of owners who go without pay when times get hard.

Let me know when regular employees work 12 to 15 hours a day.

I recommend that you start a business. You'll shut the fuck up really fast when you do.

What he said. :)

[Wonkie]

it is the right of every job creator to claim prima nocta with our daughters. this is the only fair and rational system that can exist. to do otherwise would violate the social contract.

[Caldwin]

It turned to complete and utter shit pretty quickly when the French seized everything. A lot of people got murdered and Napolean took power, leading hundreds of thousands to their early death in the aftermath.

Then we also had the bolsheviks mudering their aristocracy, then their bourgeoisie, then lowly farmstead owners who had been toiling as steward-serfs while Lenin and thrn Stalin's forces raced to the bottom eradicating everyone in their path to secure absolute power. Then came the intentional starving of millions of people forced to feed themselves to their children one limb at a time, or eat their children.

Then we had Mao and his movement with murder and starvation counts approaching 10 digits. Totally legit mindset, because....you know...the many-faced fairness god demands it.

And now, look at Venezuela... a once thriving free market turned into a socialistic disaster. Like I said before, trying to make everyone equal makes them equally poor... except for the ruling class.

[Caldwin]

Guys, the world is going to end in 12 years according to Beto and Alexandria so does any of this really matter?

http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/estimating-glacier-contribution-to-sea-level-rise/

Measurments indicate the total volume of the southern ice cap is INCREASING at this time. If both ice caps melted we still wouldnt have a 1m rise in the sea level due to the fact that the majority of the ice caps already reside underwater displacing more liquid water then they occupy. Technically, the ice is only bouyant and presenting a cap above sea level becuase it is floating on water at a rate to where its in equilibrium with the weight of the water that the ice is displacing. This is why youre all retarded for buying the rising sea level myth. If all the fucking ice melted, the only difference in sea level would be the disparity in water weight between ice that does not contain sea salt, and the weight of the sea salt in ocean water water that increases its density over that of non-seawater (we wont call it pure, because its not pure ice either.)

Oh, you two have done it now. :eek::p:D Now you have started me on a global warming hoax rant.

Beto and Alexandria don't know what they are talking about.

Sea level is rising only a few centimeters a decade. And, it's been this rate few at least hundreds of years, long before man started adding CO2. And, some of the so called rise has been due to the land sinking, not the ocean rising. This is due to tied gauges in the Northeast showing rises, while the West US gauges showing no change, or even a small drop. The Northeast coastal land is sinking. Similar situations all around the world.

Greenhouse gases is only a few percent (maybe 4% or 5%, if I remember correctly) of the total atmosphere. CO2 is only around 3% of total greenhouse gasses, with water vapor around 95%. Man has only contributed maybe 3% of the total CO2. On top of that, CO2 is a week greenhouse gas affecting only a relatively a small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum... most of which overlaps water vapor.

Al Gore showed graphs (based on ice core samples) of CO2 and temperature one above the other and talked about a correlation between the two. That much is true at large time scales. He implied that CO2 affects temperature. But, a closer look shows temperature leads CO2 by ~800 years. This is because cooler ocean waters can absorb more CO2 than warm water. On short time scales, CO2 and temperature don't correlate.

After the Dalton Minimum (1790s to around 1820s) temperature started increasing until a small minimum in the late 1800s. Then, temperatures went up into the 1930s and 1940s. In fact, temperatures in the 1930s was much warmer than now... dust bowl anyone? :rolleyes: However, man hadn't yet put out much CO2. If man didn't cause the warming, what did? The sun maybe? :rolleyes: If temperatures were that sensitive from the small increase in CO2, we would be far warmer now than we are now, and is probably why a lot of models have been wrong.

Temperatures leveled off in the 1940s, with a another peak in the 50s, though smaller than the 30s. It was after WW2 that man started to significantly pump out CO2 as the industries and vehicles increased rapidly. If the increasing CO2 we were pumping out since WW2 affected temperatures, then why did the temperature drop in the 60s and 70s? During the 70s, there was a big global cooling scare. The media was saying we were heading toward another ice age. Guess what the symptoms of global cooling was according to the media. It was severe weather, floods, tornadoes, drought, fire... well pretty much the same symptoms for global warming, with the exception of rising oceans for global warming.

Starting in 1980 until the spike in 1998, temperatures went up again. After 1998, temperatures level off, with just a slight upward trend and a couple of spikes (last one being 2016) until 2016. Since then, temperatures have been dropping.

Now for the fraud by the global warming crowd. They have manipulated the temperature record by smoothing out the 1930s to 1950s warming and 1960s and 1970s cooling, so that it looks like temperatures have been going up, more or less, from 1900 on. Another thing they do is just not show the data prior to 1979 (the coolest year since the 30s). Well, if you start at the coolest point, everything after will of course be warmer.

The 20th century was during a grand solar maximum. That's why there were warming temperatures. It had nothing to do with CO2. In fact, the other planets in our solar system also had a warming period during that time. Did man somehow affect the temperature on the other planets? :rolleyes: I don't think so. Now we are starting to enter a grand solar minimum, which could be like the Dalton Minimum, or even the Maunder Minimum (1645 to 1715) which was the coldest period in the little ice age.

Global warming zealots also ignore proxy data going back 100s of thousands of years ago. This data shows cycles of warm and cold periods. They show that since the last full blown ice age that temperatures have been much warmer. The Medieval Warm Period was as warm, if not warmer, than the last 100 years. The Roman Warm period was even warmer, and the Minoan Warm Period even warmer. In fact, the first warming period since the last full ice age was the warmest. Then each subsequent warming period is less warm than the previous.

As far as CO2 goes, we are actually at a low volume right now. There's been far more CO2 in the past. But right now, plants are starving for CO2. In 1900, the CO2 levels were dangerously low to the levels that would start to kill off plants. Since man started pumping CO2, there's been more greening. Even at the edges of the Sahara Desert, there is more greening.

Instead of trumpeting the global warming narrative, they should be preparing everyone for the grand solar minimum. The wild weather we've been having is due to the suns output being less. That weakens the magnetic fields of the earth, which is already weakening due to possible pole shift. A weakened magnetic field causes the jet streams to shift more wildly than if there was a strong magnetic field. Hence, cold air dipping far south, and even pulling warm air north.

Another result of a weakened magnetic field is increased cosmic rays. This causes increased cloud nucleation (more clouds and more rain and hail). It also agitates magma, which increases volcanism. Increased volcanism can throw material into the atmosphere causing cooling. That's what happened in 1815 when Tambora blew and threw out so much material it caused the year without summer.

All of this is affecting the food supply. So be prepared for food shortages and rising food prices, which has already started.

The global warmest are so concern by warming temperatures. But, is that a bad thing? With warm climates, civilizations flourish. With cold climates, they wither and anarchy abounds. That's what happened to each of the Chinese dynasties, the Roman empire, the Greeks, the Minoans, etc. The black plague occurred during a grand solar minimum.

[Caldwin]

More worried about the reefs food chain ph. And plankton blooms than tempatures and climate. Most of all that is driven by pollution.

Pollution, real pollution, may affect reefs and plankton, but has very little to do with temperatures and climate.

And, CO2 is not a pollutant. It has very little to do with climate and is required by plants.

[Caldwin]

Look at the link i posted dipshit. The calculation for all of the ice caps in the world (the larger one which is actually growing, included) accounts for about 5 ft of water spread across the entire ocean....WITHOUt taking into account the subsurface ice that is already displacing water.


Now given that less than half of the 5ish ft of potential water from icecaps is shrinking, and the fact that the ices weight is displacing seawater while it floats atop of it indicates that it is literally impossible to see a 3 ft rise in sea level that your catastrophists keep stating is inevitable in the next TEN years

I completely forgot to comment on the ice caps in my rant above.

The Arctic Ice sheets are increasing in volume and thickness, even though the global warmests try to say otherwise. I laugh every time a boat gets stuck there because they think the ice is melting.

In the Antarctic, there is some melting. Can you guess why? It's no global warming. It's underwater volcanoes that have increased activity... maybe due to the grand solar minimum and increased cosmic rays. however, even the Antarctic is adding more snow and ice than is melting.

[feniin]

lol Caldwin is so fucking dumb it actually hurts me to read his drivel. Anyone who denies climate change is probably too illiterate to read my reply anyway.

[feniin]

https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/nasa-study-shows-global-sea-ice-diminishing-despite-antarctic-gains

[Caldwin]

nasa say it do. i trust me a spaceman over a tentman.

NASA uses NOAA's manipulated data. Not trustworthy at all... at least when it comes to the temperature record.

[I Felt Nostalgic]

lol Caldwin is so fucking dumb it actually hurts me to read his drivel. Anyone who denies climate change is probably too illiterate to read my reply anyway.

I bet you believe the Earth is flat too, huh?

https://i.imgur.com/OAgziBu.gif

[Caldwin]

https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/nasa-study-shows-global-sea-ice-diminishing-despite-antarctic-gains

Like I said, I don't trust NASA.

Pay special attention near the end of the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3RUDh-MREo

[Caldwin]

This video talks about sun's activity, food shortages, solar minimums, even solar flares, history of CO2 levels, etc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRuTWqYJFYs&t=324s

[Caldwin]

Fatal Flaw In Climate Change Science:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYoOcaqCzxo

[Caldwin]

EU censorship with possible world wide effects. Also, more temperature data manipulation, food shortages and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMD9bCRowJ4

[Caldwin]

Attempts at silencing different points of view and a way around it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfXIjzGQx18

[JurisDictum]

This doesn't describe free market capitalism at all. Not that we have a whole lot of free market in the US nowadays with all the regulations and redistribution of wealth, not to mention lobbyists that marry big corporations with big government. If it wasn't for big government, I doubt very much we would have monopolistic big corporations.

In a free market, someone gets an idea, creates a product or does a service that people may want and starts a business to sell that product or service. Yes, he wants a profit for his idea and investment. And why shouldn't he? If the business is successful and it grows, he will need help. So he hires one or more employees. But, he can only pay them so much, and the market and sales will determine the rate. So, he is happy for getting something for his idea, the customer is happy for whatever product or service he receives and the employee is happy to be making some money.

But, when you start redistributing his profits in the form of huge taxes and fees for running the business and piling on draconian regulations, he may have second thoughts about even starting a business, or may not want to expand it. And, who would want innovate and start a business if as soon as he becomes successful the government swoops in and takes more of his profits, whether through taxes or minimum wages. Redistribution of wealth is theft. Speaking of minimum wages, if governments keep upping the minimum wages the way they are, more people will be priced out of a job, especially for the low skilled starter jobs. Whenever I hear the protests of fast food stores saying they need to make a living wage, I roll my eyes. The typical fast food job isn't supposed to support a "living". Those jobs are supposed to be starter jobs for teenagers or people going to college... not to make a career out of it.

Excessive taxes, fees and regulations stifle innovation (innovation that may save someones life or solve the energy problems, etc.) and are a barrier to the little guy, since big corporations have the resources to pay or circumvent the taxes and fees, and can afford a legal department to deal with all the regulations... regulations they probably lobbied for in the first place to keep the little guy out.

I'd rather have a small government that leaves people alone to prosper in a free market, than to have big government in bed with big corporations. Maybe then there would be much better competition where everyone wins. Because with true competition, there would be lower costs, better quality, more ideas to solve problems and even competition for workers (i.e. higher wages).

So you're against IP rights?

I'm not actually a huge regulation guy. I think that's precisely that kind of mechanism that works out better for elites than normal people. We are always going to need some, but they should be kept minimal.

Wealth transfers are different. You probably shouldn't eye roll at overpaid labor when it is the only mechanism to give some people a living. Less we start UBI and transferring a lot more wealth.

On a free market, many jobs don't pay shit in a global competitive sense. A few pay extremely well. Middle jobs are actually fairly rare.

So governments come in and set context to prevent this from being the case. Strong borders is one, but we have like 350 million people in this country...strong borders won't cut it to get everyone living wages.

We either overpay labor (not actually my favorite long term solution) or do enough services and wealth transfers so that people can either live poorly or better themselves to be actually useful to the economy.

It get more like this over time. So it gets increasingly true that something must be done. Back in the 1800's, just giving people access to plots of land in the west was enough, maybe more than enough.

We don't live in the days of Jefferson or Lincoln anymore though.

[maskedmelon]

no I was being unironic ^^ plenty fucks people up when there are no expectations or responsibilities.

For instance -- a royal in feudal times might be very likely to die by the sword, and to spend his and her life aggressively engaged in networking, socialization, ceremony, and other nonsense which is nonetheless hard work, despite its position and wealth.

Notch, meanwhile, wealthier than a 14th century kang in share of materials though poorer in share of violence, spews transphobic stuff on Twitter and looks like a 'cheetoh fiend'. He wakes up hung over a lot.

Okay, good! I think we are still talking at mixed ends though ^^; Seems to me the theme of your poast here is something liek "capitalism has enriched all persons far beyond the resources of a feudal lord." If we account for technology, accessibility, security and general standard of living, I think that is he basic argument for capitalism and not something I'd ever dispute.

It strays somewhat from the point I was trying to make though. All of the "nonsense" that you attributed to the life of a feudal lord applies to business owners, we've just managed to, again thanks to capitalism and self-governance, abstract away the physical violence with market influence. all good stuff and not small achievements ^^

Given that we agree on all of that (please tell me if I've misunderstood!), what do you think is the role of regulation here. Seems to me that you are arguing for a 100% hands-off approach. I tend to think that success must be throttled by things liek antitrust regulation to avoid stagnation and collapse.

To me the problem of a laissez fairer market arises with super competent individuals, those operating 3 or more standard deviations above the mean. They essentially have no competition and will eventually amasss all resources in a ftp environment. I don't think violent reprisal or the threat thereof from the underclass is a good mechanism to which we might entrust the longevity and continued progress of our society.

[Patriam1066]

RIP to the dead in New Zealand

Lots of sick people out there. Jesus

[JurisDictum]

AOC: "What good are your thoughts & prayers when they don’t even keep the pews safe?"

lol way to piss off everyone religious

Yea that might be the one that haunts her there. Its not really the time to make an anti-prayer statement.

[maskedmelon]

RIP to the dead in New Zealand

Lots of sick people out there. Jesus

[Wonkie]

“Create memes, post memes, and spread memes,” the author wrote. “Memes have done more for the ethno-nationalist movement than any manifesto.”

@dino @deriak @everyone

[Wonkie]

I write my own words, so youre not going to fault me for that bullshit. Anyhow, i consider this "movement" to be much more of a polemic shitshow perpetrated by ethno-nationalists and authoritarian-leftist shills alike.

You never answered my question last night....how does increased population AND increased income AND increased taxation rates = less money for educating our children? And how does more population = devolution of the complexity of our curriculum?

it's true you don't post memes. thanks!

anyway im not interested in that question beyond heckling, ask someone else.

[America]

@dino @deriak @everyone

i can't in good conscience propagate right wing chan type memes anymore. i feel partially culpable for this. the video is horrifying. the memes he was spouting, had written on his guns, etc as much as the image of violence. it is beyond disgusting violence and into dystopic horror territory. I don't feel able to describe my feelings about this adequately. This one has struck me through the heart and I feel I must change my behavior in response. There was a very dark time when I really did believe I wished to see this type of chaos come of chan memes. That passed long ago now but I am ashamed. Of course I knew we were flirting with motivating some dark heart to perpetrate this type of event. Or else we were stupid. I am very upset.

I wish dinotriz to address his feelings on this because I am left feeling very uncomfortable with his, in particular, standard mode of operation on this board. which I of course have egged on in the past. I really think we both have to introspect about this, dino.

[d3r14k]

@dino @deriak @everyone

Woah woah woah.

Memes are like any weapon, they can be used for good or evil. Generalizing that all memes help a specific movement is MEMEIST and anyone who implies such needs to be placed in a ... *cough* a ... uh ... "reeducation camp".

[Irulan]

This is why I just wanna earn enough money to buy a modest house well outside of a major city, in rural Oregon and let the rest of you fuckin' lunatics on both sides of the fence do whatever it is you dream of doing with your polemic bullshit, while I use my understanding of chemistry and bio to make fine high end furniture that features chemistry as art in it's designs.

*dies when computer malfunctions in autonomous tractor trailer on highway otw to visit kids*

Life is hard dude. I agree. Let's do something about the callousness and rudeness of our _cult_ure though.

I have done my part by disengaging the "enemy" and calling this out.

Back in my grandpas day meme kid wouldn't have made it past 13yrs old. Nature and real men would've taken its course. We live in a state though where everyone is completely enveloped in layers upon layers of safety regardless of the abhorrence of their behavior.

I am not calling for deathsquads but these kids could've used some genuine adversity and team building in order to rely on their peers and learn about Jesus some. Not have been neglected to rot on the web and fed from welfare while the state glowered at anyone who would've tossed them on their asses and taken away their toys.

[Wonkie]

Woah woah woah.

Memes are like any weapon, they can be used for good or evil. Generalizing that all memes help a specific movement is MEMEIST and anyone who implies such needs to be placed in a ... *cough* a ... uh ... "reeducation camp".

bad time to be joshin about camps and racism little wolf.

kinda proving the point that nazi memes desensitizes us to nazi ideas.

[Irulan]

Society doesn't allow you to check an insolent peice of shit anymore. I'm a bully for a checking a motherfucker up until the point to where they actively start opening fire upon innocent people.

This is because the perview of what is acceptable lies entirely with the government and our big tech companies and multimedia syndicates. Everyone everywhere has abdicated responsibility to the Supreme Court and the police.

I wish I new how to assertively and passively reverse this trend as violence does not suit me.

Everything should be the other way around. Power and authority should not be coming from the top down. This is why I believed authoritarianism, totalitarianism was the solution up until last year.

[JurisDictum]

Woah woah woah.

Memes are like any weapon, they can be used for good or evil. Generalizing that all memes help a specific movement is MEMEIST and anyone who implies such needs to be placed in a ... *cough* a ... uh ... "reeducation camp".

Yea but maybe posting a bunch of "funny" videos with actual shooter imagery and subtly egging it on is crossing the proverbial line.

[JurisDictum]

There are a LOT of men out there that want to kill people on some level. They want to be that guy that walks into a room and everyone is terrified of them. Some want that kind of infamous connotation attached to their name.

Some are just more wired that way more than others.

Meanwhile, there's a lot more little nerds on their comps that don't seem to fully realize how serious people are about this shit. How their memes encourage this stuff. I mean memes are like more potent versions of old WW2 style Propaganda posters. That shit worked then to mobilize people to kill -- and it can work now.

You can really create your own bubble with this stuff rather easy. People are very malleable. Particularly isolated people. And there is a rise of isolation in the newer generations.

[Irulan]

There are a LOT of people out there that want to kill people on some level. They want to be that guy that walks into a room and everyone is terrified of them. Some want that kind of infamous connotation attached to their name.

Some are just more wired that way more than others.

Meanwhile, there's a lot more little nerds on their comps that don't seem to fully realize how serious people are about this shit. How their memes encourage this stuff. I mean memes are like more potent versions of old WW2 style Propaganda posters. That shit worked then to mobilize people to kill -- and it can work now.

You can really create your own bubble with this stuff rather easy. People are very malleable. Particularly isolated people. And there is a rise of isolation in the newer generations.

Back in WWII the memes reflected cultural norms as well. Now the stuff on the internet basically exceeds everything normal to a hyperbolic extent and lends itself to delusional fantasy about idealized past trends.

[Irulan]

No one is likely to succeed in bringing back the shogunate to the west yet plenty of children seem to want to die trying.

[misterbonkers]

Woah woah woah.

Memes are like any weapon, they can be used for good or evil. Generalizing that all memes help a specific movement is MEMEIST and anyone who implies such needs to be placed in a ... *cough* a ... uh ... "reeducation camp".

really not a good time for this, bud.

[d3r14k]

really not a good time for this, bud.

I'm probably missing a key reference. Sorry if this was tasteless. What current event did I miss?

[JurisDictum]

Mosque shootings kill 49; white racist claims responsibility (https://apnews.com/ce9e1d267af149dab40e3e5391254530)

Kind of like a video game -- except real people. A lot of women and children in particular. He shot video in a way that made it look like a CS or CoD match. Lots of chan memes etc.

It was like the whole thing was a joke to him. Listening to music on the drive over. Just kind of cool headed the whole time. Never seen anything quite like it.

[Mead]

just skimming through his manifesto it seems like he was just some poorly educated deranged dude with no real purpose. He decided this was the one he was going to get behind and went for it

if anything his actions will promote even more diversity and community, as shown by nz and the rest of the world completely denouncing the act

the ones that agree with him will always be a minority in today’s world

[maskedmelon]

People are very malleable. Particularly isolated people. And there is a rise of isolation in the newer generations.

Lotta truth here. One of the things I learned over the last year or so is that accepting and embracing someone does not mean accepting or overlooking the things you disagree with. It's a disservice to them along with everyone else if you look past it because you are too cowardly to confront and potentially lose them. You don't truly care about someone if you place your own preference for being with them above their own wellbeing. its also a disservice to oneself because it twists and devalues an otherwise beautiful personality trait.

[Cecily]

I've bashed meme culture before for being the stupid thing it is. A generalized picture with some words on it. Not really well thought words, either. Dumb words, by dumb people, for dumb people. Bite-size thought viruses that infect critical thought deficient brains. This is right here is the vehicle by which we influence minds and it's pathetic.


https://i.imgur.com/wBNqFfR.png

[Cecily]

Oh shut the fuck up you fucking authoritarian moral policeman.

Goddamn I'm ready for a civil war.

Sick of these fucking fascist fucks telling people what they can and cannot say.

I hope you get cancer and die slow.


Agreed. Thoughts and prayers to victims. Naw I'm jking. The world is fucked and this shit doesn't register in the slightest on my emotional radar.

[Mead]

Oh shut the fuck up you fucking authoritarian moral policeman.

Goddamn I'm ready for a civil war.

Sick of these fucking fascist fucks telling people what they can and cannot say.

I hope you get cancer and die slow.

lol

deep breaths brother

[JurisDictum]

Oh shut the fuck up you fucking authoritarian moral policeman.

Goddamn I'm ready for a civil war.

Sick of these fucking fascist fucks telling people what they can and cannot say.

I hope you get cancer and die slow.

Well I'm not advocating for government censorship. Just pointing "lol kill Darkie" Memes might encourage people to ya know -- kill darkies. So you should consider that a bit. It isn't all joke all the time.

[rebeccablack]

i think people just need to be aware that humor can be a method of warming you up to ideas that you would find pretty abhorrent if presented to you in a straightforward way. memes are just the simplest vehicle for this since basically anyone can make them and there are a million free platforms to spread them. even people who are capable of critical thought dont necessarily think critically about the humor theyre exposed to and what the actual message of it is, so in a way its kind of a shortcut into your brain that circumvents your logical response to ideas.

[Cecily]

It's up to people with the right ideas to ridicule and de-platform those people. Welcome to how it be like is, but it do these days. Yeah no shit those racist jokes lead to racism because they're by racists for racists. People self-select what ideologies they subscribe to and these days are very much an online war over ideas. And in that context, it kinda makes sense why painting frogs on your shit and shooting people might a logical next step.

Basically don't believe in anything too strongly, kids.

[Cecily]

Jokes and humor didn't cause this.



Agreed. But is it surprising this came out of 4chan?

[JurisDictum]

It's going to get more common. Just a heads up. Maybe its hard to see that in whatever comfy niche most of have.

[Wonkie]

i think people just need to be aware that humor can be a method of warming you up to ideas that you would find pretty abhorrent if presented to you in a straightforward way. memes are just the simplest vehicle for this since basically anyone can make them and there are a million free platforms to spread them. even people who are capable of critical thought dont necessarily think critically about the humor theyre exposed to and what the actual message of it is, so in a way its kind of a shortcut into your brain that circumvents your logical response to ideas.

high quality post bumping for visibility, thank you

[maskedmelon]

memes may not have single-handedly caused it, but it isn't unreasonable to attribute a role to memes in the dark journey that brought that dude to this conclusion. if it doesn't traumatize you or isn't met with visceral rejection, repeated exposure to a thing most certainly does desensitize you to it. that's the importance of taboo, not only for ordinary man, but enlightened man. also, Rebecca's post is spot on.

[Mead]

I have to completely agree with dino on this one

Just because you're sensitive doesn't mean memes caused this

The guy was a lunatic, just like the ones before him

It's just easier for you to deal with it blaming memes

[Wonkie]

I have to completely agree with dino on this one

Just because you're sensitive doesn't mean memes caused this

The guy was a lunatic, just like the ones before him

It's just easier for you to deal with it blaming memes

can dopamine be a stimulant? methmeme psychosis

[JurisDictum]

I have to completely agree with dino on this one

Just because you're sensitive doesn't mean memes caused this

The guy was a lunatic, just like the ones before him

It's just easier for you to deal with it blaming memes

The entire god damn video was designed to be a meme. The guy said meme's were extremely important for this kind of movement.

What I take from that is people who continually perpetuate these memes should be aware that they are somewhat participating in what could become a kind of online radicalization movement.

And if you really honestly can't stomach the consequences. Maybe you shouldn't engage in the action. That's just denial.

ISIL targeted disaffected isolated men to do these kinds of things. It works well.

[rebeccablack]

So what the fuck are you saying? Outlaw humor?
im saying use your brain. can you not be a giant histrionic mess for once in your life?

[maskedmelon]

I have to completely agree with dino on this one

Just because you're sensitive doesn't mean memes caused this

The guy was a lunatic, just like the ones before him

It's just easier for you to deal with it blaming memes

you can acknowledge a role for memes in this event just as you can for poverty or firearms or prejudice in other situations. that doesn't mean we throw memes in the trash, just be cognizant of our words and perhaps more importantly, those to whom we utter them.

[America]

Mosque shootings kill 49; white racist claims responsibility (https://apnews.com/ce9e1d267af149dab40e3e5391254530)

Kind of like a video game -- except real people. A lot of women and children in particular. He shot video in a way that made it look like a CS or CoD match. Lots of chan memes etc.

It was like the whole thing was a joke to him. Listening to music on the drive over. Just kind of cool headed the whole time. Never seen anything quite like it.
Want to note for clarity: he was playing songs from Initial D, British meme march songs, and remixes of German songs that memed on 4chan. He posted a thread on 8chan before the attack with links to his Facebook stream and manifesto and that "ostraya" face newf@g garbagememe that Filbus was into. It was definitely him. He was a /pol/ cultist. He said "subscribe to pewdiepie" on the stream before he got into his car to drive to the mosque. Horror.

just skimming through his manifesto it seems like he was just some poorly educated deranged dude with no real purpose. He decided this was the one he was going to get behind and went for it

if anything his actions will promote even more diversity and community, as shown by nz and the rest of the world completely denouncing the act

the ones that agree with him will always be a minority in today’s world

You are correct that this is a minority thing. But it is also a significant death cult, as finally proven beyond doubt yesterday. If there are indeed multiple (4 people, 3 men and a woman) involved, even more chilling a demonstration of how powerful the indoctrination power of these boards and their orbiting social circles are.

I don't want to call out any names but there is a prominent ex-poster on this board involved in large circles of people who take this stuff 100% seriously and fuel it with significant amounts of money. People who pay people to be funny in this vein because they know it fuels a social context where these things happen. The intersection of our right to free speech with this is sticky and the ramifications of reaction by restricting those rights are, of course, terrifying. That is why this shit has to be *way* beyond the realm of "in good taste" or "just a joke". People stuck on this stuff, ironically or not, are sinning.

The ethnonationalist / "things are awful!!" (which is fueled on both sides btw) madness is taking lives and forcing us into a position where we will restrict free speech and congregation on the Internet. Because people can't handle it and we don't know what to do. And because those who are ironically engaged in pushing these memes refuse to understand that it creates a context where this behavior is earnestly cheered by a minority of the minority.

I think it is within our rights to post ironically inciteful things and that it is not equivalent to participation in murder. But to ignore the role these places and contexts played in this person's head (NOT an isolated case) is idiocy. I'm not calling for a restriction of rights; I'm stating that this behavior will render it a political inevitability. Without taking a stance either way. Because I just don't know. I don't know if we can handle the free dissemination of propaganda. It may render political stability impossible. It may be a pipe dream. I don't know.

Goddamn I'm ready for a civil war.

Sick of these fucking fascist fucks telling people what they can and cannot say.

This is kind of what I was afraid of seeing out of you in response to this. I'm sorry, Dino, but I can't respect you as a cutesy memer the way I have been.

That's not what you are showing yourself to be here. You are showing yourself to be something very ugly. You are quite literally embracing what happened. Which demonstrates the power of these echo chambers. But it is still really gross on a personal level, dude. Please seek improvement of your character. There is no honor in entrenching yourself in wrongness. Especially when it is this evil. I will hear you out if you earnestly seek personal development. I know that it is possible to recover from where you are and I know you will deserve forgiveness if you pursue that.

re: deriak, his IQ is so low that I don't even feel like lecturing. I don't feel any earnest malice in him. But I hope he introspects.

[Cecily]

I have to completely agree with dino on this one

Just because you're sensitive doesn't mean memes caused this

The guy was a lunatic, just like the ones before him

It's just easier for you to deal with it blaming memes


I think there's a point where you separate humor from outright propaganda. Anyone espousing censorship of humor because it might have negative consequences is a fucking fascist.

Propaganda, though... that shit's evil and it's pretty effective on our nation's glucose blood levels.

[Wonkie]

you can acknowledge a role for memes in this event just as you can for poverty or firearms or prejudice in other situations. that doesn't mean we throw memes in the trash, just be cognizant of our words and perhaps more importantly, those to whom we utter them.

the thing about throwing memes in the trash is that you should, on a personal level, but legally you'd have to make people responsible for the the things they say, and we've decided that's wrong i forget why.

[Mead]

You are correct that this is a minority thing. But it is also a significant death cult, as finally proven beyond doubt yesterday. If there are indeed multiple (4 people, 3 men and a woman) involved, even more chilling a demonstration of how powerful the indoctrination power of these boards and their orbiting social circles are.

a handful of people vs billions

insignificant in my opinion

[JurisDictum]

Participating in moving the United States into an era of Communism that will envelop the entire world's economy into economic destitution is no better, bro. It's a radicalization movement as well, and the consequences of communism have already been demonstrated every single time it's adopted so why do you keep supporting this bullshit?

Well get back to me when form posters that write in paragraphs dress up like Red guards and kill 50 people in church.

I'm not really a meme guy TBH.

[misterbonkers]

I have to completely agree with dino on this one

Just because you're sensitive doesn't mean memes caused this

The guy was a lunatic, just like the ones before him

It's just easier for you to deal with it blaming memes

they still played a part. clearly a large part, no less.

the point here is to be responsible with ideas you spread, even ironically. what's a joke to you might not be a joke to someone else, and try to be aware of how things might affect others in a different context. you don't really know the audience you're going to have on anything you post because of how spread out the internet is. it's poe's law on a grand scale.

[America]

a handful of people vs billions

insignificant in my opinion

I don't disagree with you per se.

The problem is that these actions provoke reaction from people not as coolheaded as you are. Media understands the destabilizing effect possible by this form of attack. That is why you are seeing a severely under-detailed reporting in all major outlets. Presumably I brought a more detailed scoop in my previous post than anyone who doesn't check chans for news knows.

Whether or not the number of people dead is significant on the larger scale, democracies prone to panic and reactionary by their very nature are shaken to their foundation by these things. Whether or not it is or ought to be criminal, making jokes that fuel these handful of people's propaganda machine is a gross failure in the civic sense.

The one thing I am sure about is that it is reprehensible to participate in jokes which fuel a murderous cult. Whether or not it is criminal or must be suppressed by force, it is beyond the realm of good taste or humor. A joke is not funny if it is 1/100,000,000,000,000,000 of a murder.

[Wonkie]

a handful of people vs billions

insignificant in my opinion

i thought "all lives matter"?

[America]

Just because I believe comedy doesn't turn people into killers means that I support the slaughtering of 49 people?

No -- because you called for civil war. Which is exactly what this meme killer is pushing.

[America]

He wants a different kind of civil war.

Anti-Trump people also want civil war.

Communists want civil war.

My fucking GRANDMA wants civil war.

All of these people are disgusting. So are you.

[Mead]

i thought "all lives matter"?

I'm a realist

[America]

I'm a realist

An effective realist understands that others are not and considers the implications of that fact. No; you are a person signalling that he is smart and edgy.

[maskedmelon]

I don't want to call out any names but there is a prominent ex-poster on this board involved in large circles of people who take this stuff 100% seriously and fuel it with significant amounts of money. People who pay people to be funny in this vein because they know it fuels a social context where these things happen.

well that makes sense now. dunno how much time I spent wondering why someone would invest so much time writing content for a forum that not many people read and doesn't appear to be monetized. people seriously pay people to post memes?

[Wonkie]

I'm a realist

me too

https://i.imgur.com/RupEaRr.png

[d3r14k]

re: deriak, his IQ is so low that I don't even feel like lecturing. I don't feel any earnest malice in him. But I hope he introspects.

Thanks for thinking of me. It's good to know where I stand with you on an intellectual level. *cries quietly internally*

[America]

well that makes sense now. dunno how much time I spent wondering why someone would invest so much time writing content for a forum that not many people read and doesn't appear to be monetized. people seriously pay people to post memes?

are you talking about me? i've never been paid. i doubt people have been paid to post here (too small). this is a place of true belief. i am just deranged (but working on it).

yes, there are true-belief white nationalists and psychopathic nihilists with money (crypto millionaires for example. or radicalized Silkroad entrepreneurs.) whose life consists of jetsetting and organizing for agitation and fucking trannies who are immersed in 4chan culture. To a millionaire, what's like a $40 bill for hilarious or professional-quality content that fuels "the movement"? It's a fun lifestyle and they are revered as Gods among these people and get to roleplay like "the resistance", going off to secret meetings and having sex with lonely desperate girls who look at them like Che Guevara in dim hotel rooms.

It's not hard to imagine why so many take this stuff seriously. Hormone therapy to children, pizzagate etc. Powerful radicalizing memes. All in a cultural vacuum with no appreciation for decent aesthetics. Initial D meme songs as you undertake a life-shattering event of world significance, dude. Imagine the emptiness he must feel.

[maskedmelon]

are you talking about me? i've never been paid.

yes, there are true-belief white nationalists with money (crypto millionaires for example) whose life consists of jetsetting and organizing for agitation and fucking trannies who are immersed in this stuff. What's like a $40 bill for hilarious or professional-quality content that fuels "the movement"? It's a fun lifestyle and they are revered as Gods among these people.

i dunno who I'm talking about tbh. that's one of the things that has immensely frustrated me about these forums. whoever writes all the stuff. i thought you wrote a lot of it, but seemed more liek maybe 3 or 4 different writers and i just didn't understand why or how.

[Irulan]

Publicly shaming and privately censoring memers who produce gross and basic filth is the way forward. This does not make one a fascist, it makes one an adult with critical thinking, maturity, self respect and personal responsibility. The memes should not be condoned by the public at large. The memes don't belong to civil discourse and do not belong at the dinner table before our mothers, our churches or our cheeto encrusted cubicles.

Relying on the government (state) to do this is fascist and dumb. Doing it ourselves is being a decent human being.

[America]

i dunno who I'm talking about tbh. that's one of the things that has immensely frustrated me about these forums. whoever writes all the stuff. i thought you wrote a lot of it, but seemed more liek maybe 3 or 4 different writers and i just didn't understand why or how.

Kind of the crux of this thing. Young people suspended in a cultureless, valueless matrix and bombarded with horrifying television and surrounded by dim bulbs. No emotional connection with family. Never meeting a person who has passed through the void and found joy in life elsewhere but stupidity. With nowhere they can express freely but places like here. It's a radicalizing alienation happening on a significant scale. That's how come there are many writers here. Because this is an issue.

On a larger timescale I worry about things like groups of these people coordinating a nuclear sabotage by infiltrating positions with that authority. All they see is the blackness of our culture and they want it dead. They think things would be better if we were swinging from trees and hunting with spears. That's where I was at once. It's why I'm not joking when I push classical music. Humans don't just create plastic wrappers and swarthy cyborgs with ass implants. Humans have created beauty.

[JurisDictum]

i dunno who I'm talking about tbh. that's one of the things that has immensely frustrated me about these forums. whoever writes all the stuff. i thought you wrote a lot of it, but seemed more liek maybe 3 or 4 different writers and i just didn't understand why or how.

I have no idea whats going on if that makes you feel any better. But its probably more than 3/4 writers.

[maskedmelon]

i am just deranged (but working on it).

lol ^^ *high-fives* ive been there. still feel im there and will forever be in some regard ^^ you got a lotta charisma, J ^^

[rebeccablack]

When islamic terrorists stop committing atrocities, I'll give more credence to overly sympathizing with tragedies occuring in perpetuity at much less frequent occurences.

To return the words of our leftist overlords, I feel sorry for all the white people that will, unfortunately, have to suffer from the anti-white backlash that this tragedy will undeservedly foist upon them moving forward.
you are a deeply stupid and terrible person

[America]

Publicly shaming and privately censoring memers who produce gross and basic filth is the way forward. This does not make one a fascist, it makes one an adult with critical thinking, maturity, self respect and personal responsibility. The memes should not be condoned by the public at large. The memes don't belong to civil discourse and do not belong at the dinner table before our mothers, our churches or our cheeto encrusted cubicles.

Relying on the government (state) to do this is fascist and dumb. Doing it ourselves is being a decent human being.

I think I agree with this. The question is whether self-censorship will be an effective enough damper on the forces we are combating to prevent the inexorable draw of the masses toward tyranny. There is a possibility that the current organization of the system simply is a less stable state than universal surveillance fascism. In fact I'd call it a likelihood.

[maskedmelon]

Kind of the crux of this thing. Young people suspended in a cultureless, valueless matrix and bombarded with horrifying television and surrounded by dim bulbs. No emotional connection with family. Never meeting a person who has passed through the void and found joy in life elsewhere but stupidity. With nowhere they can express freely but places like here. It's a radicalizing alienation happening on a significant scale. That's how come there are many writers here. Because this is an issue.

On a larger timescale I worry about things like groups of these people coordinating a nuclear sabotage by infiltrating positions with that authority. All they see is the blackness of our culture and they want it dead. They think things would be better if we were swinging from trees and hunting with spears. That's where I was at once. It's why I'm not joking when I push classical music. Humans have created beauty.


glad you ain't there no more ^^ for me, i found meaning and balance in work/discipline. it's the reason I push back on ideas of unconditioned help or resources. i look back and think, hey, if I'd been made to do more when I was younger, i wouldn't have struggled so much when I was older. hard to develop skillsets withiuf doing anything.

[America]

for me, i found meaning and balance in work/discipline.

me too :) and love, also!

[maskedmelon]

me too :) and love, also!

that is evident in your posting. super happy for you, J ^^

[Irulan]

I think I agree with this. The question is whether self-censorship will be an effective enough damper on the forces we are combating to prevent the inexorable draw of the masses toward tyranny.

I hope so. It seems genuinely effective though no solution is 100% effective. We will never achieve perfection in this regard.

I believe lowering poverty and disease would help. I am not saying "make everything safe and remove predation". A distinct lack of adversity creates apathy as well. Far be it for me to do anything but dream. We will have periods of growth and decline that foster enlightened behavior or dampen it. That is where I am stuck in my rational outlook towards all of this.

I believe I was saved from enacting a violent end by the standards the military required me to meet. The end result was that I was able to take responsibility for my mental and physical health. That is only one path.

Aside, I don't believe it will be necessary to neuter men into trannies, that was only viable for me because I am not indeed a man. Other options abound. This kid probably needed the priesthood or a good father figure.

[Irulan]

glad you ain't there no more ^^ for me, i found meaning and balance in work/discipline. it's the reason I push back on ideas of unconditioned help or resources. i look back and think, hey, if I'd been made to do more when I was younger, i wouldn't have struggled so much when I was older. hard to develop skillsets withiuf doing anything.

Yes

[d3r14k]

Self censorship will never be enough. People will always create and say whatever they want to convey, joke or no. You also can't regulate by the platform. Users will very quickly jump ship and choose an unregulated avenue or create a new one.

Are memes really the problem here? I read about this dude a bit over lunch and while I'm probably still pretty uninformed (comparatively), I feel like he was an angry dude who used memes as a means of conveyance, because he knew it would be effective to spread. This is the same for the live stream he released. I was looking this up to try to research how much of an insensitive prick I was accidentally being earler and what was the #1 search related to this?

Watch mosque shooting livestream

What this guy did was horrible, but he certainly knew the best way for exposure. My point is, the racist memes are just a symptom of a much deeper rooted problem. Memes aren't the problem themselves. It's like if newspapers had a bunch of racist articles and everyone proclaimed newspapers were a racist institution. No, newspapers were just the vehicle for that particular racist message.

[America]

that is evident in your posting. super happy for you, J ^^

you started me along in my recovery, dear. you didn't have to call me out. just to be the shining person you are.

[misterbonkers]

Self censorship will never be enough. People will always create and say whatever they want to convey, joke or no. You also can't regulate by the platform. Users will very quickly jump ship and choose an unregulated avenue or create a new one.

Are memes really the problem here? I read about this dude a bit over lunch and while I'm probably still pretty uninformed (comparatively), I feel like he was an angry dude who used memes as a means of conveyance, because he knew it would be effective to spread. This is the same for the live stream he released. I was looking this up to try to research how much of an insensitive prick I was accidentally being earler and what was the #1 search related to this?

Watch mosque shooting livestream

What this guy did was horrible, but he certainly knew the best way for exposure. My point is, the racist memes are just a symptom of a much deeper rooted problem. Memes aren't the problem themselves. It's like if newspapers had a bunch of racist articles and everyone proclaimed newspapers were a racist institution. No, newspapers were just the vehicle for that particular racist message.

you're wrong in that regulating by platform won't work. deplatforming works, and they know it. it's why they push so hard for "DEBATE ME IN THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS" because if they get their message out to a large enough audience, it does not matter how well you debate it or try to shoot it down, the message is there. it's how propaganda works.

watch a few minutes of this video (https://youtu.be/bgwS_FMZ3nQ?t=2636) from this timestamp. then replace "today is wednesday" with "subscribe to pewdiepie" and you'll hopefully realize how insidious this is.

[Irulan]

you're wrong in that regulating by platform won't work. deplatforming works, and they know it. it's why they push so hard for "DEBATE ME IN THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS" because if they get their message out to a large enough audience, it does not matter how well you debate it or try to shoot it down, the message is there. it's how propaganda works.

watch a few minutes of this video (https://youtu.be/bgwS_FMZ3nQ?t=2636) from this timestamp. then replace "today is wednesday" with "subscribe to pewdiepie" and you'll hopefully realize how insidious this is.
For a guy. He has really beautiful skin despite having a beard. As well as a nice voice.

[Wonkie]

you're wrong in that regulating by platform won't work. deplatforming works, and they know it. it's why they push so hard for "DEBATE ME IN THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS" because if they get their message out to a large enough audience, it does not matter how well you debate it or try to shoot it down, the message is there. it's how propaganda works.

watch a few minutes of this video (https://youtu.be/bgwS_FMZ3nQ?t=2636) from this timestamp. then replace "today is wednesday" with "subscribe to pewdiepie" and you'll hopefully realize how insidious this is.

i would also comment that i think he has it backwards. the memes weren't created by [the shooter] independently as a racist, it's likely he became (racially) radicalized as a result of exposure to the memes. that's the culture war.

like the ant fungus thing(but applied to ideas) from a couple years ago on reddit *feeds wolf*

[America]

For a guy. He has really beautiful skin despite having a beard. As well as a nice voice.

He wears foundation. It is obvious in some of the videos. He has a vanity / ego problem and wants to be worshiped. Probably a hot dom to play with on one-offs, and a terrible boyfriend. That's my instinct.

[Wonkie]

NO NO NO, YOU'RE FUCKING TROLLING FUCK UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUU

why'd you edit out the culture war part?

[Irulan]

If you argue for silence and censorship, you are scum and should be treated as such.

Don't be disrespectful in the church of freedom is all I am saying. These ad hominids do get us nowhere.

If we're to be taken seriously we should consider elevating our speech and our peers above violent and polarizing imigary designed specifically to insight outrage, retaliation, and anger.

When we misuse our freedom. We devalue it. The memers are just as actively eroding the foundation of free speech as bad as, if not worse than the people who own and hold responsibility over our mass communication platforms.

As end users we are responsible for making this known and speaking out against the misuse of these platforms and the abuse of our freedom in order to attack and demonize weaker groups of vulnerable people.

This mosque shooting will do nothing for free speech. Nothing for immigration reform. And nothing for opening dialog about "whites being oppressed".

Don't endorse the speech that leads down this road. Nothing positive will come from spitting in the eye of the pastor who kindly asks for you to not use the lords name vainly. This value is extensible.

Is there a place for hateful, vile, vindictive speech? Sure. But not everywhere. On every news article, every message board, or my family Facebook page.

We have empirical proof that unfettered liable, propaganda, and vitriolic speech breeds death to discourse.

[Wonkie]

None of you see how you're being fascists??

The fuckin' irony

:rolleyes:

[feniin]

None of you see how you're being fascists??

The fuckin' irony

:rolleyes:

[Irulan]

None of you see how you're being fascists??

The fuckin' irony

Dude I am trying really hard to not be a fascist. By talking as nicely as I possibly can about this. And by not mandating the state do all of this. Forcefully.

[Caldwin]

Self censorship will never be enough. People will always create and say whatever they want to convey, joke or no. You also can't regulate by the platform. Users will very quickly jump ship and choose an unregulated avenue or create a new one.

Are memes really the problem here? I read about this dude a bit over lunch and while I'm probably still pretty uninformed (comparatively), I feel like he was an angry dude who used memes as a means of conveyance, because he knew it would be effective to spread. This is the same for the live stream he released. I was looking this up to try to research how much of an insensitive prick I was accidentally being earler and what was the #1 search related to this?

Watch mosque shooting livestream

What this guy did was horrible, but he certainly knew the best way for exposure. My point is, the racist memes are just a symptom of a much deeper rooted problem. Memes aren't the problem themselves. It's like if newspapers had a bunch of racist articles and everyone proclaimed newspapers were a racist institution. No, newspapers were just the vehicle for that particular racist message.

Exactly. The shooter is responsible for his actions, not the means of communication.

[rebeccablack]

If you argue for silence and censorship, you are scum and should be treated as such.
i think its possible to acknowledge some ideological messaging is dangerous without thinking that censorship is the answer. awareness and critical thinking are the answer. even deplatforming just feeds the dumb victim complex most of these idiots have and should really be saved for cut and dry tos violations like calling for violence.

anyways enjoy your meltdown seems like a good one

[Cecily]

For a guy. He has really beautiful skin despite having a beard. As well as a nice voice.


100% he wears the beard for the same reason I did for years. Someone told him once he looked like a girl when he shaved.

[America]

i think its possible to acknowledge some ideological messaging is dangerous without thinking that censorship is the answer. awareness and critical thinking are the answer. even deplatforming just feeds the dumb victim complex most of these idiots have and should really be saved for cut and dry tos violations like calling for violence.

anyways enjoy your meltdown seems like a good one

[Caldwin]

Because it's irrelevant.

You're missing the entire point.

Did Doom make the Colombine shooters carry out their attack?

Exactly. That's the same BS they were saying about video games back in the 80s or was it 90s... oh the video made me do it. :rolleyes: Or twinkies made me do it. Or the devil made me do it. No, the shooter only has himself to blame.

[Caldwin]

Is there a place for hateful, vile, vindictive speech? Sure. But not everywhere. On every news article, every message board, or my family Facebook page.

Who gets to decide what hate speech is? The left? The far left think anyone who disagree with them is a hateful bigot and should be silenced.

[Mead]

Yeap

I remember the whole doom thing

The gaming community surely took a big hit / manufactured multiple post columbine mass shooters

[Irulan]

Who gets to decide what hate speech is? The left? The far left think anyone who disagree with them is a hateful bigot and should be silenced.

How about our peers. I told my fam to stop posting transphobic memes and articles on their feeds as I was offended by their propagation of fearful and inaccurate stereotypes and fraudulent publications. They continued. I censored them by deplatforming myself.

Maybe they had a good message about gender stereotyping in there but it got lost in all of the breitbart noise. So I left the discussion. They lost out on me.

I routinely continue to tell people to grow the fuck up and get real with their ideas and words. I don't always. But I just posted a clear example of it.

Don't be disrespectful in the church of freedom is all I am saying. These ad hominids do get us nowhere.

If we're to be taken seriously we should consider elevating our speech and our peers above violent and polarizing imigary designed specifically to insight outrage, retaliation, and anger.

When we misuse our freedom. We devalue it. The memers are just as actively eroding the foundation of free speech as bad as, if not worse than the people who own and hold responsibility over our mass communication platforms.

As end users we are responsible for making this known and speaking out against the misuse of these platforms and the abuse of our freedom in order to attack and demonize weaker groups of vulnerable people.

This mosque shooting will do nothing for free speech. Nothing for immigration reform. And nothing for opening dialog about "whites being oppressed".

Don't endorse the speech that leads down this road. Nothing positive will come from spitting in the eye of the pastor who kindly asks for you to not use the lords name vainly. This value is extensible.

Is there a place for hateful, vile, vindictive speech? Sure. But not everywhere. On every news article, every message board, or my family Facebook page.

We have empirical proof that unfettered liable, propaganda, and vitriolic speech breeds death to discourse.
It's pretty clear that we should remind each other to be civil and truthful a lot more than we do.

People don't, generally because they fear alienation from their tribes I believe.

[Irulan]

Yeap

I remember the whole doom thing

The gaming community surely took a big hit / manufactured multiple post columbine mass shooters

In the bigger social scope violent games are probably not a big deal, but they do certainly attract a violent following. It's not the game we should necessarily zoom in on, but a person obsessed by a game could be a real good indication of illness.

[rebeccablack]

its not even a good metaphor, video games are not a vehicle for violent ideologies in the way that memes have been

[Irulan]

Sounds nice, until it becomes legislation and people get the shit kicked out of them by jackbooted cops all for saying a joke online.

Fascism with a smile.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I advocate that it not become legislation. I really appreciate the open dialog I've had here and there. It's enabled me to develop a very unique perspective apart from the leftist and transgender crowd. It came about from more excellent discussions though and less the outright trolling. I believe I am particularly resilient in some ways. Not sure if everyone is capable of doing this. So the law should limit limits on speech, but we definitely need to be able to govern our own homes and communities.

[Caldwin]

Sounds nice, until it becomes legislation and people get the shit kicked out of them by jackbooted cops all for saying a joke online.

Fascism with a smile.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Look at the UK. People being arrested for what they say on social media. :rolleyes:

At least in the US we have the 1st amendment... for now. The 1st amendment wasn't put there to protect popular speech, as popular speech doesn't need defending. It was put there to protect unpopular speech. Otherwise, there'd be mob rule.

[America]

Doom is not a social structure and cult. Sorry!

Nobody here has called for censorship or the abridgment of speech rights -- only the adjustment of social norms and disrespect of people who toe the "right wing death squad line". Ouch!

Doofusface Assholeretard called for a civil war immediately when called out. Whoops!

A broader group of gross people will now be considered gross by me. Hope this helps!

[Irulan]

its not even a good metaphor, video games are not a vehicle for violent ideologies in the way that memes have been

True

YOU PEOPLE ARE THE MONSTERS!!

Don't you fucking get that?

GET THE FUCK OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE, FASCIST SKKKUM

Where did I say "you people". I am not accusing you of addiction.

I had an addiction to everquest. It was a symptom in my diseased childhood thinking. Did everquest cause it? No. It was just there, it could have been weed, or even an obsession with TV or pets.

The thing is, that my 24/7 eq olaying was a red flag. So would be 24/7 binging on pewdiepie. Who's probably cool and normal himself. Idk.

[America]

I finally watched a pewdiepie video last weekend. It was cute. He is not a great writer but he is good at editing and pacing and performance.

[Caldwin]

OH FUCK OFF - ANY FORM OF MEDIA OR ENTERTAINMENT WON'T FORCE PEOPLE TO CARRY OUT ANY VIOLENT ATTACKS

YOU MOTHERFUCKERS KNOW THIS - YOU JUST WANT YOUR OPPOSITION SILENCED BECAUSE WE USE MEMES BETTER THAN YOU

FUCK OFF AND DIE - YOU POWER HUNGRY FUCKERRESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSS[/FONT]

I don't disagree with what you say, but just the way you say it. Things are getting intense. But, I do understand your frustration. I get that way myself. I just keep it to myself.

[Irulan]

I bet it's possible to identify individuals who have an unhealthy obsession with and identification with memes. Parents and friends and family should step in at that point and get them some help.

[America]

Are people in cults driven to heinous acts by the cult, or is it allll their own fault?

How much willful ignorance can you muster?

Social media is social. It's not Doom. It's not a violent movie. It's not a photograph with a swastika on it.

[Zeush]

Exactly. That's the same BS they were saying about video games back in the 80s or was it 90s... oh the video made me do it. :rolleyes: Or twinkies made me do it. Or the devil made me do it. No, the shooter only has himself to blame.

The 80's it was Music. Heavy metal, glam metal, hair metal. 90's was video games when the music theory didn't quite pan out the way the establishment wanted. Yes, they got their labeling in place but, after that, the music got to a whole other level. Death metal, gangsta rap, sexual innuendos etc... Video games, the same thing. Shoot, kill, destruction. Put a no-no label on it and BOOM, profits!

Humans are information sponges. They absorb and become what they surround themselves with. Surround yourself with destruction you can become destructive. Surround yourself with love and happiness, you can become happy and loving. The older you get, the more solidified your "beliefs" become.

[misterbonkers]

its not even a good metaphor, video games are not a vehicle for violent ideologies in the way that memes have been

i don't wanna really write it off entirely. i don't think it's a zero sum game, i think it can have some kind of an impact that others can prey upon. it's not as direct, or effective, but it's still there. its why the armed forces advertise so hard on marvel films. they want association with feelings of heroism and the like. the idea that something "makes" someone violent is a wrong way to frame the problem. i think media can influence people into positions where they will be more susceptible to committing acts of violence, but its not as direct as the discussion is framed

[Wonkie]

Are people in cults driven to heinous acts by the cult, or is it allll their own fault?

How much willful ignorance can you muster?

manson didn't technically kill anyone /s

[Irulan]

No, it's not True.

It's fucking retarded to blame memes for making someone kill 49 people.

I was saying it's true that it is a poor comparison. Sorry if it implied memes were killing people.

[Wonkie]

The IDEOLOGY could've motivated him but the MEMES didn't do fuck!

i·de·ol·o·gy
/ˌīdēˈäləjē,ˌidēˈäləjē/Submit
noun
1.
a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
"the ideology of republicanism"
synonyms: beliefs, ideas, ideals, principles, doctrine, creed, credo, teaching, dogma, theory, thesis, tenets, canon(s); More

memes are ideas

[America]

The IDEOLOGY could've motivated him but the MEMES didn't do fuck!

The ideology indoctrinates people; you are right. The illusion of a broad consensus legitimizes the ideology. The harnessing of the brains and posting fingers of 2016 chan dimwits like yourself to produce content and that illusion of broad consensus contributes to the power of the ideology. So stop it!

NOTE: I am pretending here that you are posting 100% ironically, as if ignorant of your unironic call to civil war earlier. Very generous.

[d3r14k]

you're wrong in that regulating by platform won't work. deplatforming works, and they know it. it's why they push so hard for "DEBATE ME IN THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS" because if they get their message out to a large enough audience, it does not matter how well you debate it or try to shoot it down, the message is there. it's how propaganda works.

I'm going to have to concede that you're correct here, at least by traditional means. For example, if we're talking about Alex Jones being deplatformed from iTunes, Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, et cetera, or the instance of Gavin McInnes and the Proud Boys, or the British First group on Facebook... then yeah, it works to some degree.

However, if we're talking about memes, how do you deplatform that? There are simply too many outlets and options to do the same thing. 4chan, 8chan, 9gag.... there are literally hundreds of sites made by millions of creators expressing a variety of different opinions. You can't deplatform that. At least I wouldn't know how. If 9gag, for example, started cutting content because it may have offended someone, people would flock to the next site.

[Caldwin]

Are people in cults driven to heinous acts by the cult, or is it allll their own fault?

How much willful ignorance can you muster?

Social media is social. It's not Doom. It's not a violent movie. It's not a photograph with a swastika on it.

I'm not totally discounting influences, but ultimately it's the individual's choice what he does with that influence.

[Irulan]

Surround yourself with destruction you can become destructive. Surround yourself with love and happiness, you can become happy and loving. The older you get, the more solidified your "beliefs" become.

[Caldwin]

The 80's it was Music. Heavy metal, glam metal, hair metal.

Oh, yeah. Now I remember.

[Irulan]

I'm talking to a bunch for 40 year old, out of touch, church ladies

Correct.

[America]

I'm not totally discounting influences, but ultimately it's the individual's choice what he does with that influence.

I agree. It's why I don't feel like a murderer. I only feel like a fool.

[Wonkie]

No one is making that argument here, you DISINGENUOUS FUCK

you are

[Zeush]

I'm talking to a bunch for 40 year old, out of touch, church ladies

No disrespect, but "out of touch" with what? Everyone has their own reality.

[America]

im not even thirty :cool:

[Zeush]

im not even thirty :cool:

I'm 50 so, I'm past out of touch :D

[Wonkie]

Silicon Valley is #disrupting law and order by decentralizing cult leaders

J fix this for me

[Caldwin]

I'm 50 so, I'm past out of touch :D

Try 55. :p

[America]

Silicon Valley is #disrupting law and order by decentralizing cult leaders

J fix this for me

I am only a peasant girl, dear ;)

[Wonkie]

I am only a peasant girl, dear ;)

i meant make it coherent :eek:

[America]

fascism.

https://i.imgur.com/FqLkdEW.png

[America]

oh hush about the too tall. i have an excellent, marvelously neotenous body. even the brotha who said that swiped right.

[America]

Fascism: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control.

YOU WANT TO DICTATE AND CONTROL MEMES

chill bro i was just memeing

[Caldwin]

Silicon Valley is a great example of corporate fascism.

The government doesn't have to restrict our rights when they can just have monopolies do it for them.

Preach It.

[America]

you tall

if you would just concede we could be friends. i'm still right wing you know, just not a jerkoff.

[America]

in light of your mental retardation and my being too soft, i'm going to grant you provisional forgiveness without even the apology. no more calls to civil war or dogwhistling for violence. and do not post on /pol/. it's time to let imageboards die. you have no business contributing content to a chan anyway.

[Zeush]

Try 55. :p

CHEERS!! :)

[misterbonkers]

I'm going to have to concede that you're correct here, at least by traditional means. For example, if we're talking about Alex Jones being deplatformed from iTunes, Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, et cetera, or the instance of Gavin McInnes and the Proud Boys, or the British First group on Facebook... then yeah, it works to some degree.

However, if we're talking about memes, how do you deplatform that? There are simply too many outlets and options to do the same thing. 4chan, 8chan, 9gag.... there are literally hundreds of sites made by millions of creators expressing a variety of different opinions. You can't deplatform that. At least I wouldn't know how. If 9gag, for example, started cutting content because it may have offended someone, people would flock to the next site.

it's not the vehicle that matters, it's the message. anything that could potentially spread the message of white supremacy/nazism should be watched over with a careful eye. if you notice a pattern, you need to do something about it. you could even accuse me of being a part of it by posting that florida image in this thread. same meme used by the shooter. hell, even the message in that image could be construed as part of it, and you wouldn't be wrong for saying that i contributed to those causes. i'm disgusted w/ myself for it, and it will be a valuable lesson going forward to higher prioritize not spreading anything that could be construed as nazi ideology, even if secondary or even tertiary to the main point. that's all i can really do.

tl;dr you have to be vigilant and watchful with fascism, and watch for patterns to emerge. there is no easy answer such as "banning memes", but learn to be critical of the media you consume constantly.

[rebeccablack]

take your pills

[Wonkie]

this is a mick level event

[Caldwin]

it's not the vehicle that matters, it's the message. anything that could potentially spread the message of white supremacy/nazism should be watched over with a careful eye. if you notice a pattern, you need to do something about it. you could even accuse me of being a part of it by posting that florida image in this thread. same meme used by the shooter. hell, even the message in that image could be construed as part of it, and you wouldn't be wrong for saying that i contributed to those causes. i'm disgusted w/ myself for it, and it will be a valuable lesson going forward to higher prioritize not spreading anything that could be construed as nazi ideology, even if secondary or even tertiary to the main point. that's all i can really do.

tl;dr you have to be vigilant and watchful with fascism, and watch for patterns to emerge. there is no easy answer such as "banning memes", but learn to be critical of the media you consume constantly.

For the far left, anyone who disagrees with them is a white supremacist/Nazi or supports one.

[misterbonkers]

Someone thought you were a Nazi because you shared a meme about Florida.

LET THAT FUCKING SINK IN FOR A SECOND

DO YOU REALLY WANNA GO DOWN THIS ROAD???

it was a mistake and i acknowledge it as such. however, i do not have a repeated pattern of history of that kind of posting. i don't defend it whatsoever and actively tried to delete it once i realized the source of it (zimmerman era /pol/ propaganda to meme about stand your ground laws, to normalize the concept of it)

your meltdown changes nothing about my self reflection as a human being

[Irulan]

GO FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOURSELFD

You have not caused me any pain, therefore, there is none I can release you from.

You've got my thoughts and prayers. I hope no harm comes your way.

[America]

For the far left, anyone who disagrees with them is a white supremacist/Nazi or supports one.

Bonkers is pretty far left and he has tolerated my friendship. He is not the caricature you draw.

[Wonkie]

are gamers the real racists, or just regular racists, like the police?

[America]

Yes he is, and he lets them bully those who don't deserve it

Who is "them"? sorry but your ability to communicate seems to be breaking down. please let go of the fear and conflict for your sake and ours.

[America]

GAMERS RISE UP

It's cringey as fuck that you can't manage some humility even in the face of this horror.

[d3r14k]

Dino, what is happening to you?

PM me if you want me to send you some soothing memes.

[maskedmelon]

Dino, what is happening to you?

PM me if you want me to send you some soothing memes.

lol 😂

[d3r14k]

This is like the fourth time Wonkie has made me visit Dictionary.com

Are these words in your vocabulary, dude? Or are you fishing for a neat word to use for the day like Peewee Herman?

[d3r14k]

*frantically Googles "Chapo Trap House"*

[Wonkie]

This is like the fourth time Wonkie has made me visit Dictionary.com

Are these words in your vocabulary, dude? Or are you fishing for a neat word to use for the day like Peewee Herman?

i dont understand the question

[d3r14k]

Melon is correct. I was just lamenting in my own way that you're probably smarter than me.

[Mead]

It's cringey as fuck that you can't manage some humility even in the face of this horror.

I hope I don't seem unsympathetic by categorically dismissing the notion that memes, doom, or tacos are the cause of a horrific event such as this. When these mass shooting events happen, I think of the combination of events that had to happen before someone is able to carry something like this out. Did they have an untreated mental illness? Were they abused (verbally or physically)? Deceived? Did socioeconomic factors play a part? Lack of nurturing? There was some pathological reason(s) for this event.

This guy didn't just masturbate to 4chan every day and then write a manifesto / decide he was going to carry out a mass murder. He was broken in some other way. This was just the style he chose.

[Wonkie]

Melon is correct. I was just lamenting in my own way that you're probably smarter than me.

im not that smart i just have the best words.

[maskedmelon]

im not that smart i just have the best words.

*raises an eyebrow*







....you do have some pretty damn good words, which is saying something considering you use words so sparingly.

[America]

I hope I don't seem unsympathetic by categorically dismissing the notion that memes, doom, or tacos are the cause of a horrific event such as this. When these mass shooting events happen, I think of the combination of events that had to happen before someone is able to carry something like this out. Did they have an untreated mental illness? Were they abused (verbally or physically)? Deceived? Did socioeconomic factors play a part? Lack of nurturing? There was some pathological reason(s) for this event.

This guy didn't just masturbate to 4chan every day and then write a manifesto / decide he was going to carry out a mass murder. He was broken in some other way. This was just the style he chose.

it's not about memes exactly. there really is a cult surrounding this stuff. I guess I have more of an insider's perspective on the /pol/ social orbit than the average person.

/pol/ funnymemes draw fodder to a decentralized "organization" of truebeliever WNs which does indeed exist. at least one of these dudes (there are 2 confirmed) were visible and known in the /pol/ social sphere. Yes, they both were damaged people. But yes, also, did a circumstance of frothing peer approval for violence against perceived enemies play a part in what happened in NZ yesterday. Cults are a real thing.

Don't contribute to the /pol/overse. It's gross behavior. Just like filling the world with "ironic" pro-scientology memes that caused vulnerable people to be led astray into that organization would be. That is all I am saying.

I don't think you are an especially callous or bad person or anything.

[maskedmelon]

Never apologize for who you are.

Even if the world is screaming that you're a monster.

Let them hate you for your skin colour.

Let them hate you for your gender.

Plant your feet and stand your ground.

We're living in the plot of Zootopia but exchange the second class predator citizens with straight white males.

You will not beat me.

don't see what your race/gender/orientation have to do with condemning a mass shooter and acknowledging some nuance. not really caught up on thread, but saying memes played a role isn't the same as saying MEMES MADE HIM DO IT. then we can then move on to the question of whether we should dispose of the medium or not. i think that it is like the gun question. just behave responsibly.

[rebeccablack]

Im not apologizing for any part of what this lunatic did. I'm just saying, I could see it coming. It's going to get a lot worse if you faggots keep trying to shit all over white people and tell them they don't get a say in anything in response. I suggest you retrace your steps all the way back to just before Obama was elected; when it wasn't ok for majoritive ethnicities to be a racist piece of shit against whites all across the world and then storm into their countries committing racially charged and completely unwarranted acts of terror against their civilian populace while their respective governments pissed down their backs and told them it's raining.
i would like to make it very clear that the fact that you are a dumb sack of shit is completely independent of the fact that youre a white person. one of my very best friends is a white person.

[America]

When you have a large contingent of leftist shills openly calling for violence against white people, accellerating discriminatory hiring practices against white people within their own majoritive homelands, and forcing a mass influx of "refugees" upon a populace that is being routinely terrorized with multiple mass killing events perpetrated by the invaders in their home countries and cordoning off areas of lawlessness within their countries all whilst silencing any dissenting voices to the agenda, are you really surprised that yesterday happened?

Get used to it. Keep pushing/supporting the agenda. Watch what happens.

There is truth to this. This is as much a reaction to /pol/ culture as it is alienation from the collective culture, which is trash.

And it's as much about politics as it is aesthetics.

[Mead]

I gotta get back to my studies. Lmk who wins when I’m able to get revisit this. Kisses

[America]

I gotta get back to my studies. Lmk who wins when I’m able to get revisit this. Kisses

I wrote you an earnest reply. Jerk.

[maskedmelon]

It has very little to do with memes. When you have a large contingent of leftist shills openly calling for violence against white people, accellerating discriminatory hiring practices against white people within their own majoritive homelands, and forcing a mass influx of "refugees" upon a populace that is being routinely terrorized with multiple mass killing events perpetrated by the invaders in their home countries and cordoning off areas of lawlessness within their countries all whilst silencing any dissenting voices to the agenda, are you really surprised that yesterday happened?

Get used to it. Keep pushing/supporting the agenda. Watch what happens.

supppose we just take all that for granted (there is a lot there and I can't parse or address it right now). it is a different problem. may any of that played a role too? sure! but it's just another piece in that guy's fucked up head.

[maskedmelon]

You all think straight white males are dangerous and should be caged like animals for the crime of existing.

I'LL SHOW YOU A FUCKING ANIMAL

/bonk

that's the opposite of what I said though. you drinking more kratom?

[Lune]

So apparently the NZ guy was a liberal-fascist, environmentalist anti-capitalist, just posting here so you know it wasn't me, because reading through his manifesto the similarities in political thought are eerie (not the violence part)

[America]

So apparently the NZ guy was a liberal-fascist, environmentalist anti-capitalist, just posting here so you know it wasn't me

ha ha your a riot, Lune. smartest guy in the room.

[Wonkie]

ha ha your a riot, Lune. smartest guy in the room.

hell hath no fury :)

[America]

hell hath no fury :)

thx for tormenting me :D

[Mead]

I wrote you an earnest reply. Jerk.

I read it. I didn’t dismiss it because you’re tall. I generally stay away from this thread as I usually don’t agree with most of the stuff posted in here and it’s time consuming.

Keep dino safe.

[America]

I read it. I didn’t dismiss it because you’re tall. I generally stay away from this thread as I usually don’t agree with most of the stuff posted in here and it’s time consuming.

Keep dino safe.

you muscly

[maskedmelon]

*small smirk followed by a crescendo of laughter*

/bonk

what's funny about that?

[Irulan]

I was so week today after holding myself up yesterday. Come cuddle with me while I collect my disability check.

[Wonkie]

thx for tormenting me :D

https://i.imgur.com/EQEQdv9.png

[Lune]

How fucking stupid do you have to be to get radicalized by 4chan

[d3r14k]

I was radicalized by a Fruit Loops box. I couldn't solve the puzzle on the back and got pissed. Now I carry out violent crimes against toucans when the opportunity strikes.

The opportunity hasn't struck yet, but... I'm waiting.

[Caldwin]

I was radicalized by a Fruit Loops box. I couldn't solve the puzzle on the back and got pissed. Now I carry out violent crimes against toucans when the opportunity strikes.

The opportunity hasn't struck yet, but... I'm waiting.

I was radicalized by Everquest to carry out violent crimes against orcs every chance I get. :p

[Patriam1066]

System isn’t rigged. Step 1: stop assuming you’re a victim

It’s so sad white people adopted that mentality

[America]

he he he, haw haw haw
all aboard the tard rickshaw!

https://i.imgur.com/Lk1vNWg.png

[DMN]

System isn’t rigged. Step 1: stop assuming you’re a victim

It’s so sad white people adopted that mentality


Don't kill the messenger. But shit's gonna get real in the next couple decades as machines displace more working class people and rich fucks completely censor your thoughts on the internet.

[Caldwin]

Don't kill the messenger. But shit's gonna get real in the next couple decades as machines displace more working class people and rich fucks completely censor your thoughts on the internet.

Unfortunately, I can see this happening, especially if the government/corporate merger continues. This is why big government is so dangerous. Without big government, big corporations would need to engage in real competition.

Higher minimum wage will hasten the replacement of workings with machines as corporation feel machines are cheaper.

[Cecily]

System isn’t rigged. Step 1: stop assuming you’re a victim

It’s so sad white people adopted that mentality

My life improved dramatically once I stopped looking for, albeit perfectly valid, things to blame my problems on. I mean I was right, in a way, but looking for and finding external reasons why things suck absolves any responsibility on your own end, which is ultimately paralyzing. Most of that perceived adversity ended up just being phantoms in my head when I finally turned to face it.

Locus of control is an important psychological concept. Do you have control over events in your life or are you at the mercy of external factors? Pick one. Either answer is right. It comes down to perspective. The thing is, people with an internal locus of control fare a lot better in life.

[Cecily]

No one ever found success standing around prodding a stick around in their own feces.

Lol. God dammit, -this- is why it stinks so bad in here!

*sits back down*

Perfectly valid reason why your house stinks. There’s a turd on the floor. You can continue blaming the turd as the source of the problem and accept the reality that it’s gonna smell like shit for awhile. Or you can acknowledge there’s a fucking turd on the floor and take actions to improve your air quality.

[DMN]

Locus of control is an important psychological concept. Do you have control over events in your life or are you at the mercy of external factors? Pick one. Either answer is right. It comes down to perspective. The thing is, people with an internal locus of control fare a lot better in life.

Either answer is subjectively "right", but not objectively. Wait till your entire existence/livelihood is tested by a jury of your peers, and the selected peers are a bunch of morons.

[Cecily]

Either answer is subjectively "right", but not objectively. Wait till your entire existence/livelihood is tested by a jury of your peers, and the selected peers are a bunch of morons.

I mean I’m trans and it’s not looking like I’m gonna pass for a long time, if ever. That scenario is absolutely going to happen, probably multiple times. Move on, recoup, rebuild. I’ve curled up into a ball wayyyy too many times when that’s not fair brick walls my plans. Long as I’m still breathing I have options.

[Cecily]

Can we please continue to use poop analogies?

I enjoyed writing that post.

[Cecily]

I feel we have irreconcilable differences in philosophy. The victimhood ideology that’s so pervasive on my side is pretty horrific, though. I’ll agree with you on that at least.

[DMN]

I mean I’m trans and not looking I’m gonna pass for a long, if ever. That scenario is absolutely going to happen, probably multiple times. Move on, recoup, rebuild. I’ve curled up into a ball wayyyy too many times when that’s not fair brick walls my plans.

Perhaps you've only been tested by walls of your own making. Don't fool yourself into thinking those are the only ones -- or even the important ones. You live in a real world, not in your imagination, or as they say, "life is what happens when you are busy making other plans."

[America]

"Life is what you make it"

[Cecily]

Quite possible! If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re saying that regardless of outlook I’m not totally in control of my life because of very real outside influences, yeah?

You’re right if I’m reading that right. However, I think at least believing that one has a say in everything that transpires to them, even if it’s only reacting to it, is a better outlook then I had previously. Resilience is the big thing I’m trying to cultivate because I acknowledge that I’m bad at avoiding brick walls and there’s gonna be more I’m gonna hit.

[Cecily]

That’s the one tenet of what.. conservative philosophy I can agree on. Not so big on Jesus ghost writing reproductive legislation.

RIP Throndor. Mensa didn’t deserve you anyways.

RIP Dino, too.

[Wonkie]

change we can believe in :)

[Cecily]

Feels like a coup. J defecting. Who’s left on the right now?

[DMN]

What was the casus belli of the latest purge?

[Cecily]

I’m sure something stupid said about NZ.

[America]

Calls for violence and civil war on Dino. not sure about Throbmore.

[I Felt Nostalgic]

R.I.P. brethren.

[America]

It's a dunk. Yeller text.

[DMN]

This forum is going to get oftly boring, make that more oftly.

[I Felt Nostalgic]

So if you get banned from the forums do all P99 accounts associated with that forum account get banned too?

[d3r14k]

So if you get banned from the forums do all P99 accounts associated with that forum account get banned too?

Only one way to find out, post a bunch of porn here real quick and report back.

Don't do that.

But nah, forum suspension is USUALLY just for the forums, unless it's real serious and maybe game related like selling RMT or tipping the scale reaaaaaally far on staff bashing. Not that most people who get banned on the forums even play the game anymore.

[Irulan]

So I have lost the passwords to my old server logins and have several permabanned accounts as well as two forum accounts i believe that i don't remember nor have the passwords to.

Getting banned pretty much ended my ingame careers on 5 lvlv 50+ toons.

Also I can't remember shit :(

[America]

Also I can't remember shit :(

wats your meds sitch

[Wonkie]

Feels like a coup. J defecting. Who’s left on the right now?

J moved to the spot Lune used to occupy: boomer tier Conservatism

[Irulan]

Feels like a coup. J defecting. Who’s left on the right now?

Every few weeks I genuinely consider registering R for the primaries and prestige of being a racist republican tranny. But I am really lazy. Missed out on the mayoral election here cuz of my resort stay anyway.

[I Felt Nostalgic]

Well then, for you guys that don't play anymore... Do one of you have a fungi tunic I can have?

https://i.imgur.com/ZK682Aq.gif

[Irulan]

wats your meds sitch

Huh? I remember if I took them most days. Room to grow on the bupropion. Labs checked out in February AFAIK. The doctors were adamant about keeping them the same.

[Irulan]

Well then, for you guys that don't play anymore... Do one of you have a fungi tunic I can have?

https://i.imgur.com/ZK682Aq.gif

I would give u one ya. Sorry my logins are lost. Tbh we should just get a free fungi for every forum account we hit FG on with a /claim

[I Felt Nostalgic]

I would give u one ya. Sorry my logins are lost. Tbh we should just get a free fungi for every forum account we hit FG on with a /claim

Your kindness will be remembered.

[America]

J moved to the spot Lune used to occupy: boomer tier Conservatism

you shore know how to get my goat

[Wonkie]

you shore know how to get my goat

death is certain

https://i.imgur.com/W9Y6lE6.jpg

[DMN]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/15/asia/new-zealand-gun-control-intl/index.html
Let's do the time warp agaaaaaaaiiiiiin.

And I actually think the reason the second mosque wasn't nearly as bad is because someone else was there with a gun who warded away the shooter. I'm sure people willing to commit mass murder are going to be really put off by whatever stupid ass laws they cook up to fuck over law abiding citizens.

[rebeccablack]

lol, what did he do

[I Felt Nostalgic]

Meanwhile in the UK they want to ban knives because of so much knife crime.

[feniin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10qbt0LHmvE

how did I miss this?

[America]

death is certain

https://i.imgur.com/W9Y6lE6.jpg

dont be spooky ima paranoid

[Mead]

Calls for violence and civil war on Dino. not sure about Throbmore.

Throndor basically same beliefs as the murderer and dropped the f bomb before I called it quits

Looks like everything played out accordingly

[Caldwin]

Looks like the murderer was a leftist or at least had leftist ideas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoGv1NZX0rc

[Caldwin]

Greenpeace founder attacks AOC's green new deal and is ripped to shreds by the left. Greenpeace denies he was a founder, but caught trying to cover it up. Greenpeace tried scrub their sight that listed him as a founder. Good thing there is a way back site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RL-j_lN-6E