******Official politics thread ******

[Wonkie]

We should have a daily thank liberals post. Allow me to start-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/10/09/knowingly-infecting-others-with-hiv-is-no-longer-a-felony-in-california-advocates-say-it-targeted-sex-workers/?utm_term=.296ce6567b16

Thanks liberals.

How do you get around the paywall?

[Teppler]

Dunno (yet), but it seems like Nixon is going to jail now

Muellers got him for sure this time. There's no way Hillary will lose with 98% odds. No one can say grab em by the pussy and still be elected president. He's finished.

[Wonkie]

Dunno (yet), but it seems like Nixon is going to jail now

Muellers got him for sure this time. There's no way Hillary will lose with 98% odds. No one can say grab em by the pussy and still be elected president. He's finished.

https://i.imgur.com/CLVq3dw.jpg

Domo's right, Nixon is going to jail.

(That's an impressive joke for an ESL speaker, if it was intentional. <3)

[feniin]

Can anyone explain the crimes Roger Stone was convicted of in plain English?

Obstruction of Congress, Making false statements to Congress, Witness Tampering. Pretty self explanatory, bucko. Can't lie to congress and get away with it.

[Teppler]

Obstruction of Congress, Making false statements to Congress, Witness Tampering. Pretty self explanatory, bucko. Can't lie to congress and get away with it.

Was there any russian collusion or did they just catch him saying he ate a ham sandwich one day instead of roast beef?

Incoming pardon?

[feniin]

Was there any russian collusion or did they just catch him saying he ate a ham sandwich one day instead of roast beef?

Incoming pardon?
Does it matter what he lied about? He lied to Congress and got caught. Do the crime, do the time.


Trump also lied to the Special Counsel.

“Isn’t it fair to say that the president’s written answers were not only inadequate and incomplete because he didn’t answer many of your questions, but where he did, his answers showed that he wasn’t always being truthful?” Democratic lawmaker Val Demings asked as Mueller testified before the House intelligence panel.

“Generally,” Mueller said.

Val Demings is A+

[Jimjam]

Imagine if the colonies weren’t armed and didn’t revolt. Would there be an America? The answer is no. America existed before it revolted, that is how it was able to organise support from foreign nations (and I made a historical mistake here, I think, because I think the Revolution in France actually happened after that of America, so at this stage France was not anti monarchist, but was still anti-England). As I already stated, Americans would have had weapons regardless of if they were permitted to or not, especially as their revolution was bankrolled and supplied by France.

Would you go door to door if there’s a 50% chance you die? How about 25%? When you start answering these question you realize that those stats completely and utterly matter and less people are willing to go door to door if society is armed and dangerous towards them. I wouldn't go door to door to round people up even with a 0% chance of death. I find it disturbing that you apparently would.

You are clearly wrong on all accounts.Laughable statement, shows you are running out of real arguments. You literally failed to address any of my points and just uncountried France to try dismiss my post out of hand.

[feniin]

That's how every conversation with him and the other alt-right Trump cultists seems to go. Can't stick to the topic, can't argue the points, just make shit up and change the topic or scope of the conversation.

[Zeboim]

France was so anti England that they bankrupted themselves to finance the struggle, which later resulted in their own revolution. There would be no USA without France. They were quite literally our first real friends.

Now we make stupid jokes about them surrendering.

[Teppler]

France was so anti England that they bankrupted themselves to finance the struggle, which later resulted in their own revolution. There would be no USA without France. They were quite literally our first real friends.

Now we make stupid jokes about them surrendering.

Great and there would be no US without an armed colonies. What would they do, throw rocks against the red coats?

[feniin]

So, we're debating the effectiveness of musket and saber armed militias versus musket and saber regular armies? How does that relate to the discussion about semi-automatic small arms versus anything a modern military would wield?

[Teppler]

America existed before it revolted, that is how it was able to organise support from foreign nations (and I made a historical mistake here, I think, because I think the Revolution in France actually happened after that of America, so at this stage France was not anti monarchist, but was still anti-England). As I already stated, Americans would have had weapons regardless of if they were permitted to or not, especially as their revolution was bankrolled and supplied by France.

I wouldn't go door to door to round people up even with a 0% chance of death. I find it disturbing that you apparently would.

Laughable statement, shows you are running out of real arguments. You literally failed to address any of my points and just uncountried France to try dismiss my post out of hand.

Continuing the pilpul. Shows you are running out of real arguments.

It’s clear what’s happening here. You aren’t able to objectively argue this because you are butthurt the armed rebellion btfo your state and made you guys look like fools. I’m sorry you’re still upset about something that happened over 200 years ago that led to americas independence. If you guys had some element in your state, maybe your government wouldn’t walk all over you so much.

[Zeboim]

Maybe they could build a big beautiful wall to keep the redcoats out.

[Jimjam]

Great and there would be no US without an armed colonies. What would they do, throw rocks against the red coats?

Why are we talking about unarmed colonies? They never happened, there was too much they needed defence for back then?

Disunirregardlessfully, what has France bankrolling and supplying a colonial uprising got to do with a riot van showing up with a team of armoured up mercenaries or fanatics raiding a private property?

Also, not sure why you think I am upset that America was revolting 300 years ago? It's something you bought up.

Edit: again please use English here.

[Domo]

https://youtu.be/kA3N6x0a7MY

[suptoofs]

So, we're debating the effectiveness of musket and saber armed militias versus musket and saber regular armies? How does that relate to the discussion about semi-automatic small arms versus anything a modern military would wield?

Thank you, this guy gets it. That was my initial point when I first replied to him. He has spun this so much he has literally spun out of control!

[Jimjam]

T) Armed civilians overthrow a tyrannical government
J) Actually it's more complicated than that, and wouldn't have been possible without the backing of a foreign superpower
T) Well if the civilians weren't armed and didn't revolt there wouldn't be an America
J) How is that even relevant when we've already established France helped arm and support the revolt.
T) J wouldn't round people up cos he is scared of dieing
J) I wouldn't round people up regardless
T) You're just mad your team lost
J) I don't think a monarch from 300 years ago is 'my team', besides which, is an ak and a glock a defence against a properly equipped and deployed team?

I'm not against civilian guns, but the idea that you can overthrow the government with a glock and an AK, or even prevent an arrest at your house, is laughable.

Police have to deal with holed up gun wielders all the time.

[Zeboim]

Things Roger Stone is guilty of, officially

Witness Tampering
Lying about never discussing Credico conversations witht the campaign
Lying about telling Lawmakers he never texted or emailed with credico re: wikileaks
Lying about not having Credico carry messages to Assange
Lying about Credico being his only gobetween to Wikileaks
Lying to lawmakers he didnt discuss wikileaks via emails with third parties
Obstructing proceedings by lying and concealing records.

[Jimjam]

Are those criminal, civil or just naughty offences?

[Zeboim]

Federal criminal charges. Barring a pardon by the Don he is looking at probably 10 to 20 years in prison (max 50 but no way he gets max).

[Jimjam]

Federal crime charges... but if he is officially guilty, does that make them Federal crime convictions?

[Zeboim]

Now they are, barring a pardon. But if Donny pardons Stone its an official admittance of guilt and waives his right to plead the 5th.

[Teppler]

Things Roger Stone is guilty of, officially

Witness Tampering
Lying about never discussing Credico conversations witht the campaign
Lying about telling Lawmakers he never texted or emailed with credico re: wikileaks
Lying about not having Credico carry messages to Assange
Lying about Credico being his only gobetween to Wikileaks
Lying to lawmakers he didnt discuss wikileaks via emails with third parties
Obstructing proceedings by lying and concealing records.

What happened to russian collusion?

[feniin]

What happened to russian collusion?

Roger Stone wasn't on trial for collusion. Hope that helps.

[Teppler]

T) Armed civilians overthrow a tyrannical government
J) Actually it's more complicated than that, and wouldn't have been possible without the backing of a foreign superpower
T) Well if the civilians weren't armed and didn't revolt there wouldn't be an America
J) How is that even relevant when we've already established France helped arm and support the revolt.
T) J wouldn't round people up cos he is scared of dieing
J) I wouldn't round people up regardless
T) You're just mad your team lost
J) I don't think a monarch from 300 years ago is 'my team', besides which, is an ak and a glock a defence against a properly equipped and deployed team?

I'm not against civilian guns, but the idea that you can overthrow the government with a glock and an AK, or even prevent an arrest at your house, is laughable.

Police have to deal with holed up gun wielders all the time.

Well duh Jim, attacking a tyrannical government with your armed forces isn't the only thing that happens during a rebellion. You look for allies like we did in the revolutionary war. Would france have helped us if we were completely helpless?

This is what is called making your own luck. You put yourself in position for countries like france to help you when you arm yourself and make yourself a major player.

[Teppler]

Roger Stone wasn't on trial for collusion. Hope that helps.

You guys have been very vague about what Roger Stone did. Don't give me the title of the crime, explain to me what Roger Stone did that hurt America.

The reality is no one cares about these "crimes" except rabid dems. This will be outlined by your failure to explain his crimes.

[Jimjam]

Well duh Jim, attacking a tyrannical government with your armed forces isn't the only thing that happens during a rebellion. You look for allies like we did in the revolutionary war. Would france have helped us if we were completely helpless?

This is what is called making your own luck. You put yourself in position for country's like france to help you when you arm yourself and make yourself a major player.

I'm glad you've finally come round to what I said. You're not going to successfully revolt without either getting (a significant portion of) the army on your side and / or foreign assistance.

[Teppler]

I'm glad you've finally come round to what I said. You're not going to successfully revolt without either getting (a significant portion of) the army on your side and / or foreign assistance.

And you aren't going to get any element of a successful revolt off the floor if you are disarmed pussies.

[Zeboim]

You guys have been very vague about what Roger Stone did. Don't give me the title of the crime, explain to me what Roger Stone did that hurt America.

The reality is no one cares about these "crimes" except rabid dems. This will be outlined by your failure to explain his crimes.


Roger Stone's charges were separate from the conspiracy charges. The conspiracy charges were stepped on by Barr when he came in, and fully buried because Barr was hired to be Trump's fixer.

This does however prove that the Trump campaign was in contact with Wikileaks, which is acknowledged as a Russian intelligence tool. So while the trial for Stone wasnt about conspiracy... it proved that it happened, and Stone, convicted of being the go between, was convicted of lying about it to Congress.

[Teppler]

Roger Stone's charges were separate from the conspiracy charges. The conspiracy charges were stepped on by Barr when he came in, and fully buried because Barr was hired to be Trump's fixer.

This does however prove that the Trump campaign was in contact with Wikileaks, which is acknowledged as a Russian intelligence tool. So while the trial for Stone wasnt about conspiracy... it proved that it happened, and Stone, convicted of being the go between, was convicted of lying about it to Congress.

#1- No

#2- No one cares

#3- No

[Wonkie]

https://i.imgur.com/D786LY8.png

It's like I told ya fellas, she's a rat. She'll go back on all her impractical promises and lead an incremental revolution. That's a good thing.

Warren 2020

[Jimjam]

And you aren't going to get any element of a successful revolt off the floor if you are disarmed pussies.

Nor if you are armed pussies.

Thats why control of the media is so important. They can control the ideas people are exposed to, they can alter behaviour. They can create scapegoats. They can label those they don't desire as unpatriotic and turn their fellow citizens on them.

I see why you are internet battling; you're worried about the mind control of your fellow citizens and you want to break the spell.

[Zeboim]

You don't care because you're burying your head in the sand and begging Trump to generously take a shit in the hole so you have snacks while you wait. Anyone actually interested in reality does.

[Teppler]

Nor if you are armed pussies.

Thats why control of the media is so important. They can control the ideas people are exposed to, they can alter behaviour. They can create scapegoats. They can label those they don't desire as unpatriotic and turn their fellow citizens on them.

I see why you are internet battling; you're worried about the mind control of your fellow citizens and you want to break the spell.

That's why you have an armed society that knows what they are doing with their guns. If a population takes guerrilla tactics in it's own neighborhood against a tyrannical government, that's big trouble. It's essentially what happened during Vietnam.

Jim you are coming across like a battered woman. "Everything is helpless, lets just do our best talking out way out of this abuse"

[suptoofs]

That's why you have an armed society that knows what they are doing with their guns. If a population takes guerrilla tactics in it's own neighborhood against a tyrannical government, that's big trouble. It's essentially what happened during Vietnam.


LOL my sides

[Jimjam]

Do you have a lot of battered women in your life? I'm not familiar with how they talk. I'm not sure how thats relevant either: I thought we were having an exchange of information (well I provided information, you provided mainly 'America fuck yeahs' and insults).

I am not sure how comparable an invading occupying force would be to a domestic one. I'm interested in exploring the idea though.

[feniin]

You guys have been very vague about what Roger Stone did. Don't give me the title of the crime, explain to me what Roger Stone did that hurt America.

The reality is no one cares about these "crimes" except rabid dems. This will be outlined by your failure to explain his crimes.

During the course of the investigation he lied to investigators. That's a crime. Sorry that you think that your guys are immune.

[feniin]

Jim you are coming across like a battered woman. "Everything is helpless, lets just do our best talking out way out of this abuse"

Sexism! Victim blaming! YEAH!

[Jimjam]

I'm not even sure where he is going with that. Like is he saying he's being abusive to me and I keep the conversation open instead of walking away?

Or is it because I believe civilian weaponry alone is not an effective guarantee against tyranny?

That particular accusation of being a beaten woman caught me by suprise. Thats the joy of engaging with you Tepplar. Always suprising!

[Teppler]

During the course of the investigation he lied to investigators. That's a crime. Sorry that you think that your guys are immune.

I just don't see it as a serious crime when you get a bunch of Dems taking their turns beating him over the head to recite stories 48 hours straight to get him to commit perjury on something inconsequential. I just don't care much. Sorry.

[Teppler]

Sexism! Victim blaming! YEAH!

I don't believe you know what sexism is. Are you aware battered women exist?

[Jimjam]

I think you mean 'battered people' you sexist monster /s

[Teppler]

I'm not even sure where he is going with that. Like is he saying he's being abusive to me and I keep the conversation open instead of walking away?

Or is it because I believe civilian weaponry alone is not an effective guarantee against tyranny?

That particular accusation of being a beaten woman caught me by suprise. Thats the joy of engaging with you Tepplar. Always suprising!

I was referring to your appeal that the only way to stop a bad government is to go to the media and try to win them over.

[Teppler]

Serious, long-term domestic abuse can result in a mental disorder called battered woman syndrome. Battered woman syndrome, which is also sometimes called battered wife syndrome, is considered a subcategory of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

https://www.healthline.com/health/battered-woman-syndrome

It's an actual syndrome and it has the word woman in it, sorry.

[Jimjam]

I was referring to your appeal that the only way to stop a bad government is to go to the media and try to win them over.

You misunderstood my point, you batterboy, I was saying a government is going to control the media and control its population before it becomes openly tyranic.

[Jimjam]

Or the media would control the population and then the government before turning it tyranic. Either way same end point.

[Teppler]

You misunderstood my point, you batterboy, I was saying a government is going to control the media and control its population before it becomes openly tyranic.

And the every day citizen is supposed to be cognizant about control of the media? While they are struggling to pay their bills while supporting their families?

We're talking about what happens after the tyrannical government comes to be, not how to prevent it. We're talking about the fail-safe that is guns and weapons because inevitably it has come down to this is the past. It's unfortunate, we should be on guard, but tyrannical governments happen and have happened throughout history.

[Jimjam]

Fail safe won't work if the government is competant. They will have scape goated the populations problems onto another group and the population will be ready and willing to round up and persecute the scapegoat.

[Jimjam]

Turkeys are going to vote for Christmas if you tell them the other option is Thanksgiving.

[Teppler]

Fail safe won't work if the government is competant. They will have scape goated the populations problems onto another group and the population will be ready and willing to round up and persecute the scapegoat.

This is where I see signs of battered wife syndrome. No offense. Tyrannical governments exist in varying states. Some are very strong, some can be gotten to. Some are strong and then weaken. You've given up any possibility of fighting back before even assessing a situation with that viewpoint.

[Jimjam]

Not sure why you think "i've given up".

I mean i think i could stand up to your tyrannical government which sends an individual p99er to people's houses to 'round up'. I don't think i'd even need a gun for that.

[BallzDeep]

France was so anti England that they bankrupted themselves to finance the struggle, which later resulted in their own revolution. There would be no USA without France. They were quite literally our first real friends.

Now we make stupid jokes about them surrendering.

Funny enough, it was the only war that the French won since 1648.

[Wonkie]

https://i.imgur.com/nPT8y3e.jpg

[Teppler]

Not sure why you think "i've given up".

I mean i think i could stand up to your tyrannical government which sends an individual p99er to people's houses to 'round up'. I don't think i'd even need a gun for that.

I think about how your police go around to arrest people for wrong think and how the people vote for brexit to go through only for your elites to say nope. Future does not look good.

[Lulz Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/ts83Ob0.jpg

[BallzDeep]

Don't really care for Roger Stone. If someone is guilty of something, even with a double standard, put them on trial. To me those charges are pretty much a slap on the wrist in comparison to some of the shit the DNC has gotten away with.

On the point of allowing the media or government to be in control to stop something tyrannical from happening is laughable. People who want to be tyrannical use the media or government to further their cause. Look at Russia, look at China, Hitler. The list literally goes on and on. Think logically for a second, if you want to do something tyrannical, what avenue would you take to spread the word. You need a platform to run your ideology on.

The government is literally terrible at running anything.

[Wonkie]

The government is literally terrible at running anything.

Tell that to the wedding tents.

[BallzDeep]

Tell that to the wedding tents.

Not sure I am following but it'd say the counter is divorce.

[BallzDeep]

Also on the argument of a bunch of people armed in America is not something that can even contend with technology, just shows you know nothing about warfare. In warfare, you need ground troops. You can't just bomb the shit out of something and not re-establish with forces to secure. There are over 13 million registered hunters in the US. That does not include people who own firearms that don't register for a hunting license. That is greater than every countries combined number of active ground troops. Any nation or our nation without the philosophy of MAD knows they cannot overthrow the US population without politics.

"You won't be able to invade the United States through traditional military conquest because of the sheer land size, the armed citizen population, the huge defense military, and advanced warfare technology. Instead you must invade from within. Start by making yourself an ideal political leader"

Citizens are able to own a lot more weaponry than you think and you don't see them using on people. Full Auto's are available, you can buy explosives. You can buy functional projectiles. You can literally buy anything you want if you apply for the correct license.

"The U.S. military has 4.4 million weapons, compared to the American public possessing 393 million. Many American gun owners believe the Second Amendment of the Constitution entitles them to guns in order to “maintain a well-regulated militia,” but the fact that citizens now so outgun the actual military suggests a strange balance of relative power that was not likely to have been the intention of the amendment's framers"

It was their intention. They believed the power should be in the citizens. You can look up numerous quotes from all the original forefathers citing this.

[BallzDeep]

Just edgelording about drones. :o

You have very liberal social views on the gun topic.

You libtard.

Think you miss the condemnation of the term liberal. They use the word liberal because people who are fighting for liberty are going to an extreme based on their liberal free fight for all by banning things, a social justice warrior; while also referencing France.

I'm saying I don't care what you do or what you own, you are allowed basic freedoms, as long as you don't violate others.

[Wonkie]

Think you miss the condemnation of the term liberal. They use the word liberal because people who are fighting for liberty are going to an extreme based on their liberal free fight for all by banning things, a social justice warrior; while also referencing France.

I'm saying I don't care what you do or what you own, you are allowed basic freedoms, as long as you don't violate others.

Liberals believe in freedom.

You believe in freedom.

QED You're a Liberal.

[Lulz Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/aEanzxH.png

[Wonkie]

https://i.imgur.com/aEanzxH.png

No need to dumb it down, fren.

[Rader]

There is no such thing as attempted bribery.

Just because your bribery fails does not make it not illegal. Making the offer at all makes it Bribery regardless of what the other side says, like robbing a bank.

That the GOP is using this defense right now is insanity.

There is no bribery if the carrot is actually given, in the end, no matter what the initial response was

And democrats F'd up their argument when they pleaded about how Ukraine was so dependent upon military aid

Odumbass denied Ukraine military aid, for no reason

Trump ended up giving it to them, for nothing in return

Obama, via Biden, pressured Ukraine regarding Hunter Biden's fake consultant position, to fire a prosecutor

Trump asked Ukraine to investigate Hunter Biden, which is totally legit, and if you don't think that is suspicious you are a liberal lakey, giving money to a relative for absolutely nothing at all is money laundering pure and simple

[feniin]

There is no bribery if the carrot is actually given, in the end, no matter what the initial response was

And democrats F'd up their argument when they pleaded about how Ukraine was so dependent upon military aid

Odumbass denied Ukraine military aid, for no reason

Trump ended up giving it to them, for nothing in return

Obama, via Biden, pressured Ukraine regarding Hunter Biden's fake consultant position, to fire a prosecutor

Trump asked Ukraine to investigate Hunter Biden, which is totally legit, and if you don't think that is suspicious you are a liberal lakey, giving money to a relative for absolutely nothing at all is money laundering pure and simple

Attempted bribery is still bribery - hope that helps.

[BallzDeep]

https://i.imgur.com/aEanzxH.png

Now do one for you but be real this time. You guys get some sort of weird boner from attempting to get under peoples skin. Really weird.

Im against all social benefits and for all conservative talking points.

[Wonkie]

Now do one for you but be real this time. You guys get some sort of weird boner from attempting to get under peoples skin. Really weird.

Im against all social benefits and for all conservative talking points.

There is an economy of scale in mindlessly promoting your preferred narrative.

I like you.

[Teppler]

Epstein didn’t kill himself.

[Wonkie]

Epstein didn’t kill himself.

true

[Lulz Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/1s3Y4rd.jpg

[wildstar]

[insert buzzword here] take that! argument rebuttal impossible

[Wonkie]

[insert buzzword here] take that! argument rebuttal impossible

https://youtu.be/MnQTDht2ato

[Jimjam]

I think about how your police go around to arrest people for wrong think and how the people vote for brexit to go through only for your elites to say nope. Future does not look good.

I think that is an issue for the Brexit thread, and one we have already covered. You know I've already argued to you that as simple as 'the people voted for Brexit and politicians said nope'. Rather than rehash those arguments here I suggest you reread that thread.

People in the UK are pretty sympathetic to the police a d actually want their numbers increased, which supports my argument that a tyrannical government will use the media to influence the people and get them on board.

The UK has had the same government for 9 years now. They and the media are heavily intertwined. They originally got into power by scapegoating the previous government for being responsible for the banking crisis (and not, you know, the global recession ...) and they remain in power by scapegoating all of their governments failures on to Europe or their predecessors / their opposition. People buy into it.

Parliament is disolved now, but I guarantee you there will be more of the same after the election. The media is instrumental in supporting governments (tyrannical or not) and who am I to cause civil unrest over the results of a democratic vote? That wouldn't be democratic.

[Domo]

https://i.imgur.com/Jk3tDFb.png

[Teppler]

Explain this jimjam

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/18/uk/teenager-szewczuk-prince-harry-jailed-far-right-extremism-terrorism-gbr-scli-intl/index.html

[Teppler]

https://m.imgur.com/fvz99o7

[wildstar]

yuck

[Teppler]

That’s what happens when a society loses the ability to defend themselves. Other rights are curtailed pretty quick too. Like speech. Then children are preyed upon. Don’t let this happen to your country.

[Jimjam]

Explain this jimjam

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/18/uk/teenager-szewczuk-prince-harry-jailed-far-right-extremism-terrorism-gbr-scli-intl/index.html

I'm always happy to explain what I can.

Which bit in particular are you struggling to understand?

[Teppler]

I'm always happy to explain what I can.

Which bit in particular are you struggling to understand?

Do your politicians actually serve the people?

https://i.ibb.co/zRyQnDd/sah.jpg

From my POV I see a lot of abuse. And that you guys can't even get your democratic votes through once they are made. You don't see how this is related to a de-fanged, weak public?

[Domo]

What about the christian gangs?

You have assholes in every religion.

Few years ago Ive hated every fucking religion. Christians, muslims, jews, Hindus etc.

I mean how many died because of some god...how many killed in the name of a god?

But on the other hand you have a lot of people who doing a lot of good things because of their faith.

so yeah, fuck all hardcore and extremist religion motherfuckers who try to convert you from their religion. They can all suck my sweaty salty dick.

(Keep your religion in your heart, not in your brain)

[solleks]

What about the christian gangs?

You have assholes in every religion.

Few years ago Ive hated every fucking religion. Christians, muslims, jews, Hindus etc.

I mean how many died because of some god...how many killed in the name of a god?

But on the other hand you have a lot of people who doing a lot of good things because of their faith.

so yeah, fuck all hardcore and extremist religion motherfuckers who try to convert you from their religion. They can all suck my sweaty salty dick.

(Keep your religion in your heart, not in your brain)

[Teppler]

:eek:

[Domo]

yep, look what the hardcore jews doing with palestina. I am not afraid to call them out on that.

[Jimjam]

Do your politicians actually serve the people?

https://i.ibb.co/zRyQnDd/sah.jpg

From my POV I see a lot of abuse. And that you guys can't even get your democratic votes through once they are made. You don't see how this is related to a de-fanged, weak public?

I don't understand how your question relates to the article you posted. None of those people are politicians. I also don't understand how that relates to your idea that a citizen militia can overthrow a tyrannical government. You seem to have ran with the assumption that the whole populace would rise up. You've not addressed my counter to this claim that the population would be divided, turning on themselves, as many will have bought into government propaganda. The rebels will struggle to organise with modern surveillance.

If you're afraid of tyranny, and you can't get the support of a foreign power or the army behind you, it is already too late if it has come to guns. This is the historical precedent. The law is the best weapon for keeping government and media accountable. I do see a point you may be trying to make; that when the law starts protecting the establishment from the citizens instead of the other way around then that is a warning sign on the road to tyranny.

Your second point seems to refer to Brexit again. As before I'll refer you to the appropriate thread where you've raised this issue repeatedly and I've responded at length. Easiest deal ever.

[Teppler]

yep, look what the hardcore jews doing with palestina. I am not afraid to call them out on that.

:eek:

Haven't the Jews suffered enough? How dare you.

[Teppler]

I don't understand how your question relates to the article you posted. None of those people are politicians. I also don't understand how that relates to your idea that a citizen militia can overthrow a tyrannical government. You seem to have ran with the assumption that the whole populace would rise up. You've not addressed my counter to this claim that the population would be divided, turning on themselves, as many will have bought into government propaganda. The rebels will struggle to organise with modern surveillance.

If you're afraid of tyranny, and you can't get the support of a foreign power or the army behind you, it is already too late if it has come to guns. This is the historical precedent. The law is the best weapon for keeping government and media accountable. I do see a point you may be trying to make; that when the law starts protecting the establishment from the citizens instead of the other way around then that is a warning sign on the road to tyranny.

Your second point seems to refer to Brexit again. As before I'll refer you to the appropriate thread where you've raised this issue repeatedly and I've responded at length. Easiest deal ever.

I'm pointing out how the UK is a boiling frog and I'm speculating your elites wouldn't be so bold if the people had the ability to fight back. But you decide for yourself what is true.

[Domo]

I know you are being sarcastic, but just to make sure, I am not against religions, I am just against any hardcore extrimist motherfucker out there.

And I think thats the sad diffrence between you and me.

[Bazia]

international dystopian corporate oligarchs

[Lulz Sect]

i for one welcome our israeli overlords

[Teppler]

I know you are being sarcastic, but just to make sure, I am not against religions, I am just against any hardcore extrimist motherfucker out there.

And I think thats the sad diffrence between you and me.

Sounds like an anti semitic dog whistle.

Are you aware all the tragedies the Jewish people have gone through? Discriminated through countless nations and treated as lesser citizens. The freakin Holocaust.

These people have suffered enough, show some respect for these oppressed people for God's sake.

[Domo]

Do you know the asshole kids from elementary school who holding their hands infront of your face and say "I am not touching you, whats your problem? I am not touching you". Yeah you remind me of them right now Teppler.

[Jimjam]

I'm pointing out how the UK is a boiling frog and I'm speculating your elites wouldn't be so bold if the people had the ability to fight back. But you decide for yourself what is true.

I agree with you there, but as previous the difference in our opinion is I don't view the 'elites' as a cohesive team. They are battling over Britain right now. Their tool party is drumming up the population but the first past the post / constituency system means anti establishment right wingers have no effective place to dump their votes.

The centrists and leftists are being pushed to vote for the right wing establishment party as their own party is being scaremongered as ultra-comminist terrorist sympathisers.

The liberal democrat party is a joke that sells out to the conservatives every time. The political system is failing.

[feniin]

Do you know the asshole kids from elementary school who holding their hands infront of your face and say "I am not touching you, whats your problem? I am not touching you". Yeah you remind me of them right now Teppler.

Teppler is just gaslighting you. We already know his stance on the holocaust (hint: just search for typhus, you'll figure it out quickly).

[wildstar]

What about the christian gangs?

You have assholes in every religion.

Few years ago Ive hated every fucking religion. Christians, muslims, jews, Hindus etc.

I mean how many died because of some god...how many killed in the name of a god?

But on the other hand you have a lot of people who doing a lot of good things because of their faith.

so yeah, fuck all hardcore and extremist religion motherfuckers who try to convert you from their religion. They can all suck my sweaty salty dick.

(Keep your religion in your heart, not in your brain)

Communisms 'dictatorship of the proletariat' aims to destroy all values, religions, institutions and all traditions which would thus lead to what the communists deem as the "utopia". Maybe that is what you're looking for?

[Domo]

umm no? Is my english that bad?

I am against extremism.
What you mention sounds very extrem, and I would be against it.

[feniin]

Communisms 'dictatorship of the proletariat' aims to destroy all values, religions, institutions and all traditions which would thus lead to what the communists deem as the "utopia". Maybe that is what you're looking for?

gaslight a little more, I don't think he's fueled up enough.

[Rader]

Sounds like an anti semitic dog whistle.

Are you aware all the tragedies the Jewish people have gone through? Discriminated through countless nations and treated as lesser citizens. The freakin Holocaust.

These people have suffered enough, show some respect for these oppressed people for God's sake.

I am so sick and tired of the criticisms of Isreal. The Palestinians instigate everything, they send bombs into Israeli kindergartens, they burrow underground and plant bombs, if the US was suffering the same kind of attacks, even the libturds would be outraged.

I agree in principle that the arab palestinians should have some kind of homeland, in theory, if they could desist in the inhumane tactics that their leaders employ. But until then, they can go F themselves

[Bazia]

I am so sick and tired of the criticisms of Isreal. The Palestinians instigate everything, they send bombs into Israeli kindergartens, they burrow underground and plant bombs, if the US was suffering the same kind of attacks, even the libturds would be outraged.

I agree in principle that the arab palestinians should have some kind of homeland, in theory, if they could desist in the inhumane tactics that their leaders employ. But until then, they can go F themselves

talk about a disgusting and uneducated opinion

[Domo]

I am so sick and tired of the criticisms of Isreal. The Palestinians instigate everything, they send bombs into Israeli kindergartens, they burrow underground and plant bombs, if the US was suffering the same kind of attacks, even the libturds would be outraged.

I agree in principle that the arab palestinians should have some kind of homeland, in theory, if they could desist in the inhumane tactics that their leaders employ. But until then, they can go F themselves

There are assholes on both sides, and I really dont want to show you pictures of dead kids killed by the Israelis to prove my point.

[feniin]

There are assholes on both sides, and I really dont want to show you pictures of dead kids killed by the Israelis to prove my point.

It'll just turn him on.

[wildstar]

White supremacy is a leftist conspiracy theory

[feniin]

White supremacy is a leftist conspiracy theory

:confused:

[Kaveh]

umm no? Is my english that bad?

I am against extremism.
What you mention sounds very extrem, and I would be against it.

Christian gangs? Where can I join and retake Constantinople and west Armenia?

[Domo]

Christian gangs? Where can I join and retake Constantinople and west Armenia?

christian evangelists?
KKK?
GOP?

I think there are some more

[Kaveh]

christian evangelists?
KKK?
GOP?

I think there are some more

None of those impose violence on heathens in the name of Christ. Silly German, no wonder Barbarossa never made it to the holy land

[Domo]

Well, they use modern weapons like being against planned parenthood and abortion.

They do not just kill people, they make them suffer

[wildstar]

Well, they use modern weapons like being against planned parenthood and abortion.

They do not just kill people, they make them suffer

Yes killing babies is a right. Murder is a right!

[Domo]

a fetus is a fetus, a baby is a baby

[feniin]

I just assume that anyone against abortion either hates women or wants to subsidize and socialize every single unwanted child for their entire life. Guessing it's the former.

[Wonkie]

Yes killing babies is a right. Murder is a right!

That was Roe's position and the court ruled against her.

[Rader]

talk about a disgusting and uneducated opinion

You are quite misguided. Palestinians routinely use innocent youths as shields after their terrorist attacks. Israel typically tries to warn the Palestinians in advance before they bomb, telling civilians to leave hours before they launch missiles, but many either are captive, or are willing to martyr themselves.

Some may say that the correct position is to never attack, even if despicable monsters are using insane and evil tactics in the war.

I, on the other hand, say that evil must be wiped out. Give the innocents every chance to evade or repent. But in the end, you cannot surrender to those who want you dead, no matter what, for no reason.

And if you still think that sucks, well, that is on you, as an idiot, and not on me

[feniin]

I, on the other hand, say that evil must be wiped out.


Start with the alt-right/neo-nazis in your own backyard.

[Teppler]

Fenin and horza

https://i.imgur.com/SxzLOL1.jpg

[feniin]

Fenin and horza

https://i.imgur.com/SxzLOL1.jpg

so clever?

[Bazia]

You are quite misguided. Palestinians routinely use innocent youths as shields after their terrorist attacks. Israel typically tries to warn the Palestinians in advance before they bomb, telling civilians to leave hours before they launch missiles, but many either are captive, or are willing to martyr themselves.

Some may say that the correct position is to never attack, even if despicable monsters are using insane and evil tactics in the war.

I, on the other hand, say that evil must be wiped out. Give the innocents every chance to evade or repent. But in the end, you cannot surrender to those who want you dead, no matter what, for no reason.

And if you still think that sucks, well, that is on you, as an idiot, and not on me

yeah the native ethnic population that's being genocided and displaced by aggressive israeli settlement expansion are the monsters

not the literal facist ethnostate murdering them and shoving them off their ancient lands you're right

https://i.stack.imgur.com/26uyp.jpg

[wildstar]

Start with the alt-right/neo-nazis in your own backyard.

most violence in the usa is done by lefties. Nazis / white supremacy barely even exists except in the minds of the deranged

[solleks]

Israel is the most racist violent nation. Lots of queers too

[feniin]

Israel is the most racist violent nation. Lots of queers too

y'know, besides rural/religious America, anyway.

[solleks]

y'know, besides rural/religious America, anyway.

Wtf are u talking about? I'm talking about a violent military ethnostate causing chaos. Literally killing people based on bloodline

[Kaveh]

y'know, besides rural/religious America, anyway.

Extremely dumb post

[feniin]

Wtf are u talking about? I'm talking about a violent military ethnostate causing chaos. Literally killing people based on bloodline

Sounds like what Brietbart readers fantasize about.

[feniin]

Extremely dumb post

Nah, religious right wing nutjobs want an ethnostate and if left to their own devices would purge the countryside of the "others"

[Teppler]

Nah, religious right wing nutjobs want an ethnostate and if left to their own devices would purge the countryside of the "others"

Its very sad you have these types of thoughts and projections.

[Teppler]

Nick Fuentes is quickly becoming the biggest e celeb in politics. He seems pretty righteous to me.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hEUFgD1rf3U

[BallzDeep]

Nah, religious right wing nutjobs want an ethnostate and if left to their own devices would purge the countryside of the "others"

It sounds to me like you are making America out to sound like a shithole when in reality it is still the country with the most freedom for religion and ethnicity in the world. No wonder you have this fucked up perception of the world.

[Bazia]

y'know, besides rural/religious America, anyway.

god damn those christians and their thousands of non-profits dedicated to helping immigrants into the country and setting them up with homes

so racist! when will someone put them under the boot

[tinklepee]

Nick Fuentes is quickly becoming the biggest e celeb in politics. He seems pretty righteous to me.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hEUFgD1rf3U

Nick is my favorite Afro-Latino campus conservative

[Domo]

https://youtu.be/G_Rcm3U7ouQ

very fine people these christians :)

(again, I have nothing against religions, I just think that extremists are assholes and stupid)

[Teppler]

Christians I know do an insane amount of charity work. Catholic priests are some of the best people I know. They literally do the lords work, going to visit sick people on their death beds for no compensation.

If you hate Christianity it’s probably because you were susceptible to propaganda about it while you grew up.

For example, public school teachers have a much higher rate of child molestation yet school teachers aren’t known as child molestors first and foremost like catholic priests. Public school teachers are largely celebrated instead. Try and figure this one out.

[feniin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Cobb

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territorial_Imperative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wayne_Hull

These are just a few of your alt-right buddies and their ideology. Hope that helps.

[feniin]

Christians I know do an insane amount of charity work. Catholic priests are some of the best people I know. They literally do the lords work, going to visit sick people on their death beds for no compensation.

If you hate Christianity it’s probably because you were susceptible to propaganda about it while you grew up.

For example, public school teachers have a much higher rate of child molestation yet school teachers aren’t known as child molestors first and foremost like catholic priests. Public school teachers are largely celebrated instead. Try and figure this one out.

Every bible thumping Christian I've met (especially in South Georgia) is a complete hypocrite. They Praise Jesus, Hail Trump, hate gays, support segregation.

[Teppler]

Every bible thumping Christian I've met (especially in South Georgia) is a complete hypocrite. They Praise Jesus, Hail Trump, hate gays, support segregation.

My dad is a Christian, leans left, doesn’t talk about Jesus, feeds the poor in soup kitchens and gave away his kidney to a complete stranger. Lol at your stereotypes.

[feniin]

My dad is a Christian, leans left, doesn’t talk about Jesus, feeds the poor in soup kitchens and gave away his kidney to a complete stranger. Lol at your stereotypes.

Cool? Sounds like your dad is one of the good ones. Doesn't change the fact that most of the rural, religious folks don't back up their beliefs. Racial and religious bigotry runs strong in the bible belt.

[tinklepee]

"Stereotyping millions of people is only okay when I do it" -60 year old neckbeard on a forum for a 20 year old game

[feniin]

"Stereotyping millions of people is only okay when I do it" -60 year old neckbeard on a forum for a 20 year old game

Edgy. Prove me wrong. Show me where there's racial and religious acceptance among the rural, religious right-wing South. I don't think you'll find many examples. It's far easier to find examples of the opposite.

[Bazia]

https://youtu.be/G_Rcm3U7ouQ

very fine people these christians :)

(again, I have nothing against religions, I just think that extremists are assholes and stupid)

*points at one black guy breaking into a liquor store* VERY FINE PEOPLE THESE AFRICAN AMERICANS

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Bazia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Cobb

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territorial_Imperative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wayne_Hull

These are just a few of your alt-right buddies and their ideology. Hope that helps.

heres your buddy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Low IQ thread

[feniin]

heres your buddy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Low IQ thread

What? I think you have me confused with Teppler.

[Wonkie]

Chick-fil-A will no longer donate to anti-LGBTQ organizations (https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/business/chick-fil-a-lgbtq-donations/index.html)

The Market has spoken.

[tinklepee]

Good riddance. The Salvation Army calls my house every Christmas begging for donations. F*ck those poor little brats.

[feniin]

Chick-fil-A will no longer donate to anti-LGBTQ organizations (https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/business/chick-fil-a-lgbtq-donations/index.html)

The Market has spoken.

Curiously it doesn't state why they stopped donating to those organizations and does leave open the possibility that it could donate to them again (or other anti LGBTQ orgs). Their CEO is still in the "traditional family unit only" boat.

[Domo]

https://youtu.be/yuAvRCSWu8I

[Wonkie]

Good riddance. The Salvation Army calls my house every Christmas begging for donations. F*ck those poor little brats.

Can't we just leave the politics out of it and eat some dang birds?

[Kaveh]

Chic fil a is good. Popeyes chicken sandwich tastes like gruel

I don’t get it

[Teppler]

Can't eat Chik Fila without getting sick.

[Kaveh]

Can't eat Chik Fila without getting sick.

That’s because you’re gay

[Madbad]

your*

[Domo]

just had a good laugh...

Cops put GPS tracker on man’s car, charge him with theft for removing it (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/11/man-charged-with-theft-for-removing-police-gps-tracker-from-his-car/)

[feniin]

Arabs are semites.

[Talid5431]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQr2TDlA-uw

[Kaveh]

Hey Baader Meinhof I mean Domo, hows Germany’s economy doing right now? My family is trying to leave Iran since it’s actively descending into chaos

[Domo]

like any other country.

The middle class is losing, and the gap between poor and rich gets every day bigger.

[feniin]

Need Iranian Hulk to stop the war and bring peace to Iran.

[Teppler]

like any other country.

The middle class is losing, and the gap between poor and rich gets every day bigger.

Then why do you support and empower the global elites?

[Domo]

sorry Teppler, not in the mood today to play with ya.

[feniin]

Then why do you support and empower the global elites?

Who, in your view, are the global elites? Stop using the buzzword if you can't tell me who we're supporting that is magically ruining the world.

[Kaveh]

like any other country.

The middle class is losing, and the gap between poor and rich gets every day bigger.

Cool, looking at buying residency in Portugal for them so they have EU citizenship. I will report back. Iran is very very bad right now. I can only get updates once every 24-48 hours due to them closing down the internet and WhatsApp, but apparently Esfahan looks like Syria

[Domo]

ya should invest in US propertys like the Chinese do.

[Kaveh]

ya should invest in US propertys like the Chinese do.

Iranians can’t get into the US very easily right now. And fuck Canada

Not about investments, it’s about the country being worse than it’s ever been

[Domo]

anyone with enough money can get easy into the US or the EU

[solleks]

Check south of the border they're pretty nice folks

[Kaveh]

Check south of the border they're pretty nice folks

My family would be running Mexico in a decade, I desire a simpler life for them. It’s hard at the top

[Kaveh]

anyone with enough money can get easy into the US or the EU

You’d be surprised bud. Iranians are not really getting into the US in under 5 years right now

[Domo]

https://youtu.be/bcuAw77J8_Y?t=60

[Kaveh]

https://youtu.be/_EVKy35L7MM

[Cecily]

You’d be surprised bud. Iranians are not really getting into the US in under 5 years right now

Not trolling but do you think maybe it's the death to America thing?

[Kaveh]

Not trolling but do you think maybe it's the death to America thing?

An Iranian is worth about 100 million Mexicans in economic terms. I wasn’t making a judgment, however. Merely stating money cannot, in fact, get iranian into the country legally. My family is looking into Canada but I’d much rather them get EU residency since I passionately believe Canadians are NLs

[Wonkie]

Not trolling but do you think maybe it's the death to America thing?

there's an emoticon for that, it's toothless

[Teddie1056]

Holy shit, have you guys sene this shit. How is this shit not in the News??!?!?!

https://i.imgur.com/nMJwVPY.png

[feniin]

RIP

[Domo]

my brain cells...ouch

[Rader]

Not trolling but do you think maybe it's the death to America thing?

LOL, what would make you say that?

To be fair to the Iranians, they mean that in a really nice way...like, we hope your death is a pleasant journey to the abyss

[feniin]

Think of all the weird shit that Trump gets his cultists to chant. No different, really.

[feniin]

It's sort of sad how quickly the GOP turns on its own when they don't kowtow to Trump's every whim. Sondland donated $1,000,000 to Trump and has the audacity to tell the truth to congress so now he's a lying traitor in their eyes.

Distinguished servicemen, diplomats, and ambassadors, all of which are Republicans, are being derided and their reputations and credibility questioned when many of them were recently lauded by the same people.

[Teddie1056]

If you are watching this hearing and think "Wow, that Nunes guy is intellegent and who I want leading my country," you probably weren't dropped on your head enough as a baby.

[Teddie1056]

https://i.imgur.com/PRM93rk.jpg

I think Republicans ate too many paint chips as kids.

[tinklepee]

https://youtu.be/4G4GZCEWRns

Can Mayo Pete beat Trump?

[Wwen42]

Dude, Trump is going to be in the WH FOREVER. He's the president Americans deserve. (I mean that in a mean way.)

[Kaveh]

joe biden needs to drop out, wow

[Teppler]

I would support trump serving more terms after his 2nd.

[feniin]

I would support trump serving more terms after his 2nd.

So, you hate the Constitution?

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I watched that Nunes guy after the other guy finished. I dont profess to understand the whole deal. But he looked haunted.

[feniin]

https://i.imgur.com/PRM93rk.jpg

I think Republicans ate too many paint chips as kids.

[Jimjam]

I would support trump serving more terms after his 2nd.

What happened to all that talk about preventing Tyranny? There is more to democracy than just shooting the leaders you don't like, Patsy.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I would support trump serving more terms after his 2nd.

Woah there Teps. Isnt that against the 22nd ammendment?

Scandalous :D

[BallzDeep]

What happened to all that talk about preventing Tyranny? There is more to democracy than just shooting the leaders you don't like, Patsy.

Isn't a democrat talking point about trying to remove the electoral college? Pot meet kettle.

What other avenue can they take legally to "attempt" to win and fail?

Impeach him! (Failed the previous times they've announced it.)
Remove the electoral college! (Not happening.)
Smear campaign on all the news networks we own! (It's backfiring)

Can they literally just not win straight up? Is Trump literally that strong you need to run smear campaigns everyday, attempt to remove the electoral college and stirring up impeachment for the past 4 years so you have no opposition?

Democrats are literally the party of losers.

[feniin]

Isn't a democrat talking point about trying to remove the electoral college? Pot meet kettle.

What other avenue can they take legally to "attempt" to win and fail?

Impeach him! (Failed the previous times they've announced it.)
Remove the electoral college! (Not happening.)
Smear campaign on all the news networks we own! (It's backfiring)

Can they literally just not win straight up? Is Trump literally that strong you need to run smear campaigns everyday, attempt to remove the electoral college and stirring up impeachment for the past 4 years so you have no opposition?

Democrats are literally the party of losers.

Reporting the crimes of a corrupt administration should be viewed as patriotic. Sorry you're a part of the con-man's criminal conspiracy.

[Jimjam]

Why are you trying to change the subject into a rant about Democrats, Ballzdeep?

What do democrats have to do with anything I said or responded to?

[Domo]

lol...

https://i.imgur.com/YYCBHJL.jpg

[BallzDeep]

Reporting the crimes of a corrupt administration should be viewed as patriotic. Sorry you're a part of the con-man's criminal conspiracy.

And how much first hand information do you have? I'd love to see what you have versus the current argument taking place between both sides that absolutely points to you being right.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Genuine question: If trump was found to be guilty beyond any doubt of what he has been accused of would people still support him? As in people commenting here.

[feniin]

Genuine question: If trump was found to be guilty beyond any doubt of what he has been accused of would people still support him? As in people commenting here.

Of course they would. Their entire identity is tied to him.

[Domo]

its a cult. prove me wrong

[BallzDeep]

Genuine question: If trump was found to be guilty beyond any doubt of what he has been accused of would people still support him? As in people commenting here.

I think there is obviously a big failure to understand different peoples points here. Both parties are politically corrupt. Both commonly commit crimes. There is obviously a major separation between your local citizen and government. No one has first hand information. You rely on media to get your information. You can't argue media isn't bias. When one owns fox news and the other owns 50 channels, both are pushing an agenda with bias. Due to this, you have to remove all the "grab them by the pussy" or stupid comments that could be taken out of content for both parties.

Now you have to look at policies. Democrats are in favor for dictating how you spend your taxes, which healthcare you choose, the right to self defense, catering to identity politics and LGBTQ movement and discussing drafting laws to "protect." Any laws for equal opportunity are stupid because you can't determine the demographics 100 years from now.

Republicans are for freedom of economic choice, less government restrictions, freedom of defense, stronger military and domestic defense. I also agree with their philosophy of in nature, a man and woman thrive.

So outside of hearsay, it would need to be a real crime committed with pretty sufficient evidence.

People's typical argument against Republicans is they are too wealthy and they don't care about the poor. Republican's donate more money and blood. If you go back through history, it isn't some wealthy organization oppressing people. It's the government and they start by restricting your rights. Eventually you've given them the power to determine what is a movement for the betterment of "mankind" and they will choose that with force.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

My quesiton is what would it take to make a staunch trump supporter turn against him?

I feel like in the UK it wouldnt take MUCH too turn me against my choice of candidate for leadership. E.g if they were proven to be an actual criminal.

[feniin]

I think there is obviously a big failure to understand different peoples points here. Both parties are politically corrupt. Both commonly commit crimes. There is obviously a major separation between your local citizen and government. No one has first hand information. You rely on media to get your information. You can't argue media isn't bias. When one owns fox news and the other owns 50 channels, both are pushing an agenda with bias. Due to this, you have to remove all the "grab them by the pussy" or stupid comments that could be taken out of content for both parties.

Now you have to look at policies. Democrats are in favor for dictating how you spend your taxes, which healthcare you choose, the right to self defense, catering to identity politics and LGBTQ movement and discussing drafting laws to "protect." Any laws for equal opportunity are stupid because you can't determine the demographics 100 years from now.

Republicans are for freedom of economic choice, less government restrictions, freedom of defense, stronger military and domestic defense. I also agree with their philosophy of in nature, a man and woman thrive.

So outside of hearsay, it would need to be a real crime committed with pretty sufficient evidence.

None of this is true. Like, none of it. You are so disjointed from reality that we can't even talk facts.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I think there is obviously a big failure to understand different peoples points here. Both parties are politically corrupt. Both commonly commit crimes. There is obviously a major separation between your local citizen and government. No one has first hand information. You rely on media to get your information. You can't argue media isn't bias. When one owns fox news and the other owns 50 channels, both are pushing an agenda with bias. Due to this, you have to remove all the "grab them by the pussy" or stupid comments that could be taken out of content for both parties.

Now you have to look at policies. Democrats are in favor for dictating how you spend your taxes, which healthcare you choose, the right to self defense, catering to identity politics and LGBTQ movement and discussing drafting laws to "protect." Any laws for equal opportunity are stupid because you can't determine the demographics 100 years from now.

Republicans are for freedom of economic choice, less government restrictions, freedom of defense, stronger military and domestic defense. I also agree with their philosophy of in nature, a man and woman thrive.

So outside of hearsay, it would need to be a real crime committed with pretty sufficient evidence.

People's typical argument against Republicans is they are too wealthy and they don't care about the poor. Republican's donate more money and blood. If you go back through history, it isn't some wealthy organization oppressing people. It's the government and they start by restricting your rights. Eventually you've given them the power to determine what is a movement for the betterment of "mankind" and they will choose that with force.

Ok what crime would that be thats serious enough for you?

I've seen a vid of a trump supporter say they would still support him if he was found to have shot someone or smoked crack.

[feniin]

Instead of trying to get to the bottom of the truth like they should, every single Republican is acting like Trump's defense attorney.

[BallzDeep]

Ok what crime would that be thats serious enough for you?

I've seen a vid of a trump supporter say they would still support him if he was found to have shot someone or smoked crack.

I think people are at a crossroads. For a lot of people, freedom of economic choice for all and being able to own firearms to defend yourself is more important than one single person dying. It's a weird argument to have because you have 17 candidates for Democrat and 0 front runner for Republican after Trump. People feel that if you are allowing a Democrat, you are openly helping sign off on the removal of freedoms.

[BallzDeep]

Instead of trying to get to the bottom of the truth like they should, every single Republican is acting like Trump's defense attorney.

Honestly, I think most people find you are as the dumbest person here. Left or Right.

Name where I was wrong in my above post. What are the democrat talking points? Who owns CNN, ABC, MSNC, Viacom, Showtime, Starz, MTV, BET and what political affiliation are they?

Is there a current conversation about a 70% tax rate on the Democrat side? Is there a current conversation about gun control on the Democrat side? Is there a current talking point for universal healthcare at the tone of higher tax rates right now on the Democrat side? You choosing how to spend your hard earned money and being forced to pay for something you don't agree with, is that considered a removal of freedom or giving a freedom?

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I think people are at a crossroads. For a lot of people, freedom of economic choice for all and being able to own firearms to defend yourself is more important than one single person dying. It's a weird argument to have because you have 17 candidates for Democrat and 0 front runner for Republican after Trump. People feel that if you are allowing a Democrat, you are openly helping sign off on the removal of freedoms.

ok What would it take YOU to not support him. What crime? There has to be one surely.

[feniin]

Honestly, I think most people find you are as the dumbest person here. Left or Right.

You're so clever. So witty. Can't come up with reasoned responses so you just attack attack attack from some place of inferiority. Stop sucking Trump's tiny orange dick and start being a patriot, you worthless scrap of Russian propaganda.

[feniin]

I think people are at a crossroads. For a lot of people, freedom of economic choice for all and being able to own firearms to defend yourself is more important than one single person dying. It's a weird argument to have because you have 17 candidates for Democrat and 0 front runner for Republican after Trump. People feel that if you are allowing a Democrat, you are openly helping sign off on the removal of freedoms.

So, let Trump fuck everything as long as it's not a Democrat in office? That's pretty fucking stupid.

[BallzDeep]

ok What would it take YOU to not support him. What crime? There has to be one surely.

I really don't support Trump that much. I didn't even vote for him last election. I will this time but not last. It would need to be evidence where it was universally understood a crime was committed, majority of the crimes presented have been utilizing a large portion of biased actors. (whistleblower has been seen with all sorts of Democrats; It can't be something along the lines of Kavanaugh case.)" Murder, sure, if you can prove it. Rape, yes, if you can prove it. There are plenty.

I think you are just upset I don't support Democrats and I guess that's okay.

[BallzDeep]

You're so clever. So witty. Can't come up with reasoned responses so you just attack attack attack from some place of inferiority. Stop sucking Trump's tiny orange dick and start being a patriot, you worthless scrap of Russian propaganda.

I guarantee I have done more patriotic things for this country. There are several soldiers who agree with my premise. You are basically telling people who fought for you that you are more of a patriot and you want to call me delusional and inferior? Jesus Christ.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

I dont care who you support. Im just interested what it would take someone to turn their back on him who currently is sticking up for him.

Im not upset at all :) Just interested.

[feniin]

I guarantee I have done more patriotic things for this country. There are several soldiers who agree with my premise. You are basically telling people who fought for you that you are more of a patriot and you want to call me delusional and inferior? Jesus Christ.

Yep. You're supporting a criminal without second thought. There's nothing that will change your mind and you'd rather sell out the country than to admit you made a mistake.

[BallzDeep]

I dont care who you support. Im just interested what it would take someone to turn their back on him who currently is sticking up for him.

Im not upset at all :) Just interested.

It's a trade off for freedom and since there is no runner being him, it's a tough call. I know for a fact I won't agree with impeachment on some uncertain bias.

It just seems like you were asking a hard question to answer. It's like what is the minimum to agree with impeachment and you can't really answer that because there are so many different scenarios and what evidence is presented.

[Teppler]

The left is full of bad optics. That's why they need massive funding on their side.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

It's a trade off for freedom and since there is no runner being him, it's a tough call. I know for a fact I won't agree with impeachment on some uncertain bias.

It just seems like you were asking a hard question to answer. It's like what is the minimum to agree with impeachment and you can't really answer that because there are so many different scenarios and what evidence is presented.

I swear some of you guys are politicians. No one can seem to be asked a question without saying "Well its a difficult thing to answer".

My question is simple. What crime is sufficient for Trump to be made not president.

Im not an american, your politics are only of superficial interest to me bar the effect they possibly have on my country so you can assume im not particually invested in this.

[BallzDeep]

Yep. You're supporting a criminal without second thought. There's nothing that will change your mind and you'd rather sell out the country than to admit you made a mistake.

Still waiting on where I was wrong? You just keep shouting how wrong everyone but you is about everything.


You just got done talking about personal attacks and you followed it up with a personal attack. You don't even know where your own lines are and when you cross them lol.

[Jimjam]

I dont care who you support. Im just interested what it would take someone to turn their back on him who currently is sticking up for him.

Im not upset at all :) Just interested.

Its strange, isn't it? These Yanks can't even conceive that an outsider would care either way for democrat nor republican party affiliations.

[Teppler]

feniin degrading into personal attacks again.... I am shocked....

[feniin]

Still waiting on where I was wrong? You just keep shouting how wrong everyone but you is about everything.


You just got done talking about personal attacks and you followed it up with a personal attack. You don't even know where your own lines are and when you cross them lol.
I don't really have lines? It's more of an ebb and flow of how dumbed down I have to make things to convey a thought to you and your friends.

[BallzDeep]

I swear some of you guys are politicians. No one can seem to be asked a question without saying "Well its a difficult thing to answer".

My question is simple. What crime is sufficient for Trump to be made not president.

Im not an american, your politics are only of superficial interest to me bar the effect they possibly have on my country so you can assume im not particually invested in this.

No your question is not simple. It is very complex and impeachment has been in pretty much EVERY case since the US was formed.

Is it a provable crime?
Evidence based on what?
Who presented the evidence?
What was the order the evidence was submitted?
Was there any protocols violated?

When you get some moron trying to pin you to your words, you need to be specific.

If you are asking for situations of what type of crime if they had all the compelling evidence, my answer is ANY. Evidence is subjective though as you might of found out through this thread.

[feniin]

feniin degrading into personal attacks again.... I am shocked....

Pardon me if I don't bite my tongue when dealing with Trump apologists and supporters. Can only take so much treason.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Its strange, isn't it? These Yanks can't even conceive that an outsider would care either way for democrat nor republican party affiliations.

Yeah seriously. I would of thought people would be happy outsiders take an interest and possibly give a different opinion.

Oh well bored now.

[BallzDeep]

I don't really have lines? It's more of an ebb and flow of how dumbed down I have to make things to convey a thought to you and your friends.

Still waiting on that dumbed down point you were trying to make where I incorrectly stated everything though. Have yet to see it.

[BallzDeep]

Like I said, I gave an answer several times, when someone keeps asking a stupid question even though you've stated your position and it seems like they are digging for something else then yes, I am going to tell you to stop being redundant.

Its strange, isn't it? These Yanks can't even conceive that an outsider would care either way for democrat nor republican party affiliations.

This is you "Hey, let me pretend that I've got someone open to both political parties so I can make a point that my political party is actually more open to outsiders who are open."

This is literally you.

Then guy who might not live in the US but gets all our culture says "Yeah seriously"

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

No your question is not simple. It is very complex and impeachment has been in pretty much EVERY case since the US was formed.

Is it a provable crime?
Evidence based on what?
Who presented the evidence?
What was the order the evidence was submitted?
Was there any protocols violated?

When you get some moron trying to pin you to your words, you need to be specific.

If you are asking for situations of what type of crime if they had all the compelling evidence, my answer is ANY. Evidence is subjective though as you might of found out through this thread.

Is it a provable crime? Obviously i mean a provable crime
Evidence based on what? Your most authoritive court?
Who presented the evidence? Im a not a lawyer and it hasnt happened but lets suppose someone high up in government.
What was the order the evidence was submitted? Yeah im out, its no wonder Americas politics is so vitriotic.
Was there any protocols violated? See above

In short, i was just interested in having a discussion. I'm entirely bored now.

You have won and disuaded someone from wanting to talk about it by thinking they were in some way against you.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Like I said, I gave an answer several times, when someone keeps asking a stupid question even though you've stated your position and it seems like they are digging for something else then yes, I am going to tell you to stop being redundant.



This is you "Hey, let me pretend that I've got someone open to both political parties so I can make a point that my political party is actually more open to outsiders who are open."

This is literally you.

Then guy who might not live in the US but gets all our culture says "Yeah seriously"

I had to read this so many times and my eyes were like squinting.

Sorry you got so annoyed that someone from outside the USA took an interest and had genuine questions. Perhaps you should make a thread called USA OFFICIAL POLITICS THREAD (Foreigners shouldnt comment).

[feniin]

Evidence is subjective when you don't live in the same reality as the rest of the world. The cyclical thought bubbles and echo chambers like The_Donald and /pol/ are feeding their insanity. They don't have to accept anything that breaks from their preconceived notions that Trump is God and infallible. They just write it off as fake news. Anyone who once supported Trump but breaks away is a traitor, someone who was working for the deep state or some other garbage. There's nobody to actually accept blame or responsibility. It's always someone else's fault.

[BallzDeep]

Is it a provable crime? Obviously i mean a provable crime
Evidence based on what? Your most authoritive court?
Who presented the evidence? Im a not a lawyer and it hasnt happened but lets suppose someone high up in government.
What was the order the evidence was submitted? Yeah im out, its no wonder Americas politics is so vitriotic.
Was there any protocols violated? See above

In short, i was just interested in having a discussion. I'm entirely bored now.

You have won and disuaded someone from wanting to talk about it by thinking they were in some way against you.

Well be more specific next time. It might be that you are just not familiar with US politics but every case in politics as of lately has been completely subjective. You can take that from the Russian investigations, Kavanaugh hearing to the current impeachment. You also specifically directed the question to Trump, so yes, it's annoying. The appropriate question would be "What crime would a sitting President commit that you would be okay with impeachment?"

If you take offense to me asking more questions, you need to take a look at Feniin and how he will harp on something someone said 100 pages ago and that I saw bias in the way you formed your very first question.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Recently in the UK the Tory party changed their twitter to appear to be a fact checking company and were smearing the opposing party under this guise.

Even the BBC who lick the torys backsides turned on them. It was a bridge too far even for the BBC who are pro tory whom said to the a major tory "This is dystopian stuff seriously".

It seems like some people are so invested they find it hard to break away on EITHER side.

[Wonkie]

Is there a current conversation about a 70% tax rate on the Democrat side? Is there a current conversation about gun control on the Democrat side? Is there a current talking point for universal healthcare at the tone of higher tax rates right now on the Democrat side? You choosing how to spend your hard earned money and being forced to pay for something you don't agree with, is that considered a removal of freedom or giving a freedom?

Google technocracy. This isn't a cartoon.

[BallzDeep]

Evidence is subjective when you don't live in the same reality as the rest of the world. The cyclical thought bubbles and echo chambers like The_Donald and /pol/ are feeding their insanity. They don't have to accept anything that breaks from their preconceived notions that Trump is God and infallible. They just write it off as fake news. Anyone who once supported Trump but breaks away is a traitor, someone who was working for the deep state or some other garbage. There's nobody to actually accept blame or responsibility. It's always someone else's fault.

It's hilarious coming from someone who probably grows shitty pot (ebb and flow reference), lives in a home with children, plays Everquest all day and wants to talk about reality.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Well be more specific next time. It might be that you are just not familiar with US politics but every case in politics as of lately has been completely subjective. You can take that from the Russian investigations, Kavanaugh hearing to the current impeachment. You also specifically directed the question to Trump, so yes, it's annoying. The appropriate question would be "What crime would a sitting President commit that you would be okay with impeachment?"

If you take offense to me asking more questions, you need to take a look at Feniin and how he will harp on something someone said 100 pages ago and that I saw bias in the way you formed your very first question.

Not taking offense. But i was clear.

My question being what would it take you to say "Wow he shouldnt be president"

Example answer: Murder

its that simple.

Whats the line for YOU.

Its not a patriotism test. No one will arrive in a black helicopter to take you away (though that sounds fun, i mean cmon, black helicopter ride!)

[feniin]

(I've never harped on something someone said 100 pages ago except Teppler's bigoted rant denying the Holocaust)

[feniin]

It's hilarious coming from someone who probably grows shitty pot (ebb and flow reference), lives in a home with children, plays Everquest all day and wants to talk about reality.

Grows pot? Yikes. I'm a bookkeeper for an independent sales rep and a stay at home dad. Grow up.

[Wonkie]

Hopkins the crack smoking thing was about Rob Ford, Canada's Mayor. He was awesome.

[BallzDeep]

Google technocracy. This isn't a cartoon.

Interesting concept for sure.

[Ripp]

Evidence is subjective when you don't live in the same reality as the rest of the world. The cyclical thought bubbles and echo chambers like The_Donald and /pol/ are feeding their insanity. They don't have to accept anything that breaks from their preconceived notions that Trump is God and infallible. They just write it off as fake news. Anyone who once supported Trump but breaks away is a traitor, someone who was working for the deep state or some other garbage. There's nobody to actually accept blame or responsibility. It's always someone else's fault.

The ironic thing is, fake news is a real thing. All anyone has to do is research outside the Deep State controlled media.

And if you don't believe in the Deep State then you really are clueless. There are countless articles and videos of Deep State members talking about it's very existence!

You're just another liberal trapped inside the propaganda machine. I know, I've been there. Your hatred that's been programmed in you by the Deep State propaganda machine is your prison.

Oh I know, that's just crazy conspiracy theories. Uh huh.

One day you'll probably figure it all out. Perhaps. But if you ever do, it will be too late for you.

[BallzDeep]

Not taking offense. But i was clear.

My question being what would it take you to say "Wow he shouldnt be president"

Example answer: Murder

its that simple.

Whats the line for YOU.

Its not a patriotism test. No one will arrive in a black helicopter to take you away (though that sounds fun, i mean cmon, black helicopter ride!)


This was my quote "Murder, sure, if you can prove it. Rape, yes, if you can prove it. There are plenty." Second response back to you.

[feniin]

Anyone who believes there's a deep state controlling the government is probably mentally handicapped.

[BallzDeep]

Grows pot? Yikes. I'm a bookkeeper for an independent sales rep and a stay at home dad. Grow up.

Stay at home dad. Say no more.

[feniin]

Stay at home dad. Say no more.

Raising a child is such an awful thing that should be looked down on. Having a wife that wants to have a career is terrible. Sorry you're a lonely incel.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

This was my quote "Murder, sure, if you can prove it. Rape, yes, if you can prove it. There are plenty." Second response back to you.

I missed it. APologies.

Great.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Hopkins the crack smoking thing was about Rob Ford, Canada's Mayor. He was awesome.

It was a reporter asking an american woman would you vote trump if he smoked crack. She said YES

He then said what if he shot someone in the street on camera she said "YES"

It was staggering and amusing tbh

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Stay at home dad. Say no more.

Yes really. I mean come on. Fairly disgusting. If my wife earned more i would have no issues doing the same. Stone age stuff.

[BallzDeep]

Raising a child is such an awful thing that should be looked down on. Having a wife that wants to have a career is terrible. Sorry you're a lonely incel.

Well considering a mother is set to raise a child based on milk from the mothers breasts and the child is raised with the mother and mother has a different hormone balance for a child, I'm not the one going against biology.

The point there is that you don't get much social interaction. You work at home, you keep your kids at home. You also play Everquest. Sorry you got offended and I had to point out why your a beta in comparison to reality.

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Well considering a mother is set to raise a child based on milk from the mothers breasts and the child is raised with the mother and mother has a different hormone balance for a child, I'm not the one going against biology.

The point there is that you don't get much social interaction. You work at home, you keep your kids at home. You also play Everquest. Sorry you got offended and I had to point out why your a beta in comparison to reality.

Aaaaand this thread has taken the usual stone age direction.

Im out. This whole thing should be in rants and flames. Embarassing.

I swear one day our kids will find our old threads and groan.

[feniin]

Well considering a mother is set to raise a child based on milk from the mothers breasts and the child is raised with the mother and mother has a different hormone balance for a child, I'm not the one going against biology.

The point there is that you don't get much social interaction. You work at home, you keep your kids at home. You also play Everquest. Sorry you got offended and I had to point out why your a beta in comparison to reality.

Yikes. What is this, the 50s? Sorry your parents don't love you. Sorry you're an incel. Thankfully you won't procreate.

[Wonkie]

Interesting concept for sure.

A Democrat version of that would be means-tested child tax credits or something like that. That gets tortured into redistribution by the politically mischievous. At the outset the ACA was a sneaky trick to reduce government healthcare deficits(hence ruled a tax) that got mangled up in courts.

Democracy is a messy bitch.

[Ripp]

Anyone who believes there's a deep state controlling the government is probably mentally handicapped.

Uh huh. A quick search will uncover articles and videos showing their own members talking about it.

You won't click on this because you've been brainwashed so this is for those interested:

Two Former CIA Directors Admit: ‘Thank God for Deep State’ Involvement Pushing Impeachment (https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2019/10/31/two-former-cia-directors-admit-thank-god-for-deep-state-involvement-pushing-impeachment/)

Former CIA Directors John Brennan and former acting CIA Director John McLaughlin were being questioned on a panel by Face the Nation’s Margaret Brennan. The panel was at George Mason University and also had former Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe in attendance.

Margaret Brennan asked about the concern that many have, including President Donald Trump, that there is an effort to take him out including by some in the intelligence community, which some have termed the “deep state.” She noted the fact that the ‘impeachment’ proceedings started with a CIA person, the Ukraine whistleblower, with connections to both Brennan and Joe Biden, feeds into this sense.

McLaughlin’s response was more than a little disturbing as he in fact confirmed that yes, indeed there was a cadre of folks doing exactly that. “Thank God for the ‘Deep State,'” he said to cheers in the liberal friendly audience.


But these people, including Brennan, must be mentally handicapped according to you. Lul. :rolleyes:

[BallzDeep]

Aaaaand this thread has taken the usual stone age direction.

Im out. This whole thing should be in rants and flames. Embarassing.

I swear one day our kids will find our old threads and groan.

Sorry you can't take a disagreement with philosophy that a man and women have roles based on anatomy and biology. If he is going to attempt to talk about reality, you need to have some sort of reference of that persons interactions with reality. I'll stand by my comments. When you are a stay at home dad and going against anatomy and social structure carried even through animals, I'm going to bring it up because I philosophically disagree and it is a shame.

[feniin]

Uh huh. A quick search will uncover articles and videos showing their own members talking about it.

You won't click on this because you've been brainwashed so this is for those interested:

Two Former CIA Directors Admit: ‘Thank God for Deep State’ Involvement Pushing Impeachment (https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2019/10/31/two-former-cia-directors-admit-thank-god-for-deep-state-involvement-pushing-impeachment/)

Former CIA Directors John Brennan and former acting CIA Director John McLaughlin were being questioned on a panel by Face the Nation’s Margaret Brennan. The panel was at George Mason University and also had former Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe in attendance.

Margaret Brennan asked about the concern that many have, including President Donald Trump, that there is an effort to take him out including by some in the intelligence community, which some have termed the “deep state.” She noted the fact that the ‘impeachment’ proceedings started with a CIA person, the Ukraine whistleblower, with connections to both Brennan and Joe Biden, feeds into this sense.

McLaughlin’s response was more than a little disturbing as he in fact confirmed that yes, indeed there was a cadre of folks doing exactly that. “Thank God for the ‘Deep State,'” he said to cheers in the liberal friendly audience.


But these people, including Brennan, must be mentally handicapped according to you. Lul. :rolleyes:
Can you find those quotes on a credible site?

[Hoppkins_Wytchfinder]

Sorry you can't take a disagreement with philosophy that a man and women have roles based on anatomy and biology. If he is going to attempt to talk about reality, you need to have some sort of reference of that persons interactions with reality. I'll stand by my comments. When you are a stay at home dad and going against anatomy and social structure carried even through animals, I'm going to bring it up because I philosophically disagree and it is a shame.

Who said it was a baby. His kids may be already weaned. After breast feeding there is no difference in parenting.

[feniin]

Sorry you can't take a disagreement with philosophy that a man and women have roles based on anatomy and biology. If he is going to attempt to talk about reality, you need to have some sort of reference of that persons interactions with reality. I'll stand by my comments. When you are a stay at home dad and going against anatomy and social structure carried even through animals, I'm going to bring it up because I philosophically disagree and it is a shame.

Sexism is awesome! Let's all be assholes to people based on their social and financial situation!

Or you could just continue to be a treasonous incel.

[BallzDeep]

A Democrat version of that would be means-tested child tax credits or something like that. That gets tortured into redistribution by the politically mischievous. At the outset the ACA was a sneaky trick to reduce government healthcare deficits(hence ruled a tax) that got mangled up in courts.

Democracy is a messy bitch.

I like the opening concept "is a proposed system of governance in which decision-makers are selected on the basis of their expertise in a given area of responsibility; advocate the application of the scientific method to solving social problems"

But their methods of doing so are crazy and it looks like the original concept has completely changed.