Best full group composition

[Bagger]

Hi guys! Me and 4-5 other guys are gonna try EQ for the first time together.
So I've a question for you guys out there! What would be your favorite class composition which can last from start to end game (including raids - if it should comes to that).

Only one rule! There can't be 2 or more of the same class.

[Cribanox]

Enc Cler SK/Pal War Rogue SHM?

[Expediency]

Only one rule! There can't be 2 or more of the same class.

You were smart to put this, because otherwise the answer would be something like:

monk
cleric
ench
ench
ench
bard

I'd say this is the best 6 group for leveling to 50, assuming that you only play with each other and not use pickup players:

-cleric
-ench
-monk
-rogue
-druid
-tank (warrior best option but SK/Pal would work also)

Very little overlap in skills here. The reason I selected a druid is because of ports/sow/backup healing. You'd level more efficiently with another melee dps or pet class instead of the druid but you'd be slower traveling around the world and would only have one healer.

[Izmael]

enc cle dru pal monk

You have pulls, heals, res, buffs, ports, snare, regen, CR (monk), CC, mana regen, haste, snap aggro, dps.

A case can certainly be made for swapping PAL with something else, like rogue or SK or why not a 2nd monk.

[Shea]

Alot of opinions on this

Heres mine:

War
Clr
Enc
Bard
Rogue
Monk

[Izmael]

n/t

[Bagger]

I'd say this is the best 6 group for leveling to 50, assuming that you only play with each other and not use pickup players:

-cleric
-ench
-monk
-rogue
-druid
-tank (warrior best option but SK/Pal would work also)

Very little overlap in skills here. The reason I selected a druid is because of ports/sow/backup healing. You'd level more efficiently with another melee dps or pet class instead of the druid but you'd be slower traveling around the world and would only have one healer.

I like that! I might go with that!

So far no one suggest Wizards/Mages - why is that?

[Expediency]

I like that! I might go with that!

So far no one suggest Wizards/Mages - why is that?

Wizards are widely regarded as the worst grouping class on p99 for leveling.

Mages can do decent DPS but other than damage shield (which druid can cast) and COTH (which you dont get until 55) mages dont bring a lot of added utility to a group. You can get that same DPS with more utility from another class.

[Bagger]

Wizards are widely regarded as the worst grouping class on p99 for leveling.

Mages can do decent DPS but other than damage shield (which druid can cast) and COTH (which you dont get until 55) mages dont bring a lot of added utility to a group. You can get that same DPS with more utility from another class.

I see! And I presume that an Enchanter is a must pick for a solid group?

[Kaedain]

shadowknight or paladin
cleric
enchanter
bard
druid
monk

[zati]

enc
shm
necro - or monk
cleric
druid

-you don't need a tank to hit 60.
-most likely you all wont be grouped everytime
-each class can solo efficiently and duo/trio combinations work great(if any of your friends quit)
-highly desired classes

Usually the rogue or war/wiz in these types of pre-made groups get left behind in the dust eventually... and roll a caster. Unless its a 100% dedicated group No lvling with other people then I dont see a problem.

[Victorio]

SK
MNK/ROG
CLR
ENC
ENC
SHM

2 charm pets, snap aggro tank. Shaman over Druid b/c of malo for charm pets and slowing hard bosses later. Rogue over monk if you want to get behind a few locked doors, but monk if you want to pull more mobs when you're killing fast. DPS of rogue over monk won't matter with 2 charm pets.

EDIT: Oops, can't be 2 of the same class. Then go:
SK
MNK
ROG
CLR
ENC
SHM

[Vexenu]

You don't need in-group ports on this server, and you don't really need snare in dungeons either. So Druids lose even more of their already limited appeal. And you pretty much have 3 slots of the group set in stone: Enchanter, Cleric and Rogue. You have some wiggle room with the other three slots which is where you get different opinions. I would do:

Enchanter
Cleric
Rogue
Paladin
Magician
Monk

The only argument would be swapping out the Mage for a Shaman. But I like the Mage in there since you're primarily leveling. The more DPS the better, and this group's got DPS out the wazoo. Mobs are dying so fast you won't notice the difference between Enchanter and Shaman slow. Paladin over Warrior tank lets the Rogue and Monk open up the DPS fully without pulling agro. Enchanter and Mage pets wrecking house as always.

The only challenge with this group would be finding spots with enough mobs to kill. I actually had this exact group comp the other day in Seb and it was a total meat grinder.

[Bagger]

So far it's looking like :
Warrior (seems better endgame wise, and with a Monk/Enchanter I think we will manage)
Cleric
Shaman
Enchanter
Rogue
Monk

[Dreenk317]

My two cents looks something like this:
Cleric - for heals and emergency CC with root and stun, invis vs undead

Paladin - tank with great snap agro and heals/Lay on Hands in a pinch, pacify to help pull, CC via root and stun

Bard - off tank with slows and chain mez to hold agro, melee and charm dps, stacking mana/health regen, great puller with lull/mez/charm/snare, CC via mez/charm/fear/snare, group run speed for travel

Shaman - buffs/debuffs, dps via dots and pet, slows/haste, hp regen (stacks with bards), CC via root, SoW, invisible/see invisible

Enchanter - CC, dps via pet, mana regen (stacks with bards), haste, and slows.

Rogue - dps pure and simple, as well as granting access to locked doors.


This is what I would do, the bard does have a fairly high player skill necessary to be as effective as it can be though. Also, anyone who says bards can't tank is silly, we get plate, defense skill equal with a warrior and way way way more agro holding ability. Watched a sub level 60 bard tank CE in seb, even tanking emporer successfully, I think he was lvl 57? No epic, kept resists/AC/regen up while twisting slows and mez for agro. Was awesome.

Also almost everyone in the group has some form of CC available to them which is always useful, and bard again is useful because all groups need snare to prevent runners (root works but can break allowing them to continue running).

No monk is necessary to pull with both bard and chanter being excellent pulling classes.

The only change I might make is SK instead of pally, would have a little more dps and ability to snare.


Granted this is just what I think would be fun. One of the fastest leveling exp groups I've ever been in was chanter/shaman/bard (me)/cleric/ and necro. Insane fun, nothing could stop us.

[Cecily]

Monk/ Ranger
Monk/ Rogue
Rogue
Rogue
Bard
Cleric

These groups are fun because you don't need buffs to hurt things.

Bard (tank / puller)
Rogue x 4
Cleric

Is pretty silly too.

[BirryDaKir]

Monk, chanter, shaman, cleric, rogue, bard/ranger/mage/necro/sk (6th can be whatever really, but if you allow 2 of the same class I'd go for a 2nd chanter)

I can't imagine why anyone would prefer a Druid over a shaman, especially at 60... ports? Nah, just get OT hammers and pay for a port. Torp shaman, or even shaman without torp are for more useful in a group than druids.

Monks can tank any non-raid targets at lvl 60, so a war/sk/pally isn't crucial. Plus monks can pull far easier.

[Bagger]

Monk/ Ranger
Monk/ Rogue
Rogue
Rogue
Bard
Cleric

These groups are fun because you don't need buffs to hurt things.

Bard (tank / puller)
Rogue x 4
Cleric

Is pretty silly too.

No two or more of the same class ^^

[Bagger]

Hmm. For a 5 man group on P99, I'd go with:


- One person with Asperger's to handle communications with players from outside your group. You want other players to dislike communicating with your group, so that they go somewhere else rather than try to compromise or negotiate on sharing content.


- One psychotic and narcissistic douchebag to do the pulling. Psychotic so they'll have no moral qualms kill stealing or training people out of cash camps. Narcissistic so that the very idea of someone else "winning" becomes so unpleasant, and so intolerable, that they're willing to break all of the game's rules in order to dominate.


- One reasonably intelligent and charismatic person, well-versed in the art of bullshit. This is the group's frontman. You need him to schmooze up the GM's and win lawyerquest. Also needs to have a good speaking voice for guest appearances on Sirken's stream.


- One basement bum to stay awake and on-point 20 hours a day so you can lock down content and tunnelquest your MQ's effectively. Unemployed, living at home, manic depressive types work best here.


- One ghetto mentality scumbag to handle your RMT sales. Needs to be criminally minded since money laundering and tax free income are both illegal, and of special interest should anyone decide to tip off the IRS. You need a cutthroat type who will stick to $3/USD per 1,000 plat.

I know this can be confusing for a new group of players, but just give it a shot. With this group, you WILL learn 2 compete and become an effective unit from level 1 all the way to endgame raiding.

I got ADD! So I can be the 6th guy! Nice response m8!

[Kawazu]

Monk
Enchanter
Cleric
Rogue
Bard
Ranger

All players must be absolutely competent.

[Cecily]

No two or more of the same class ^^

That's a silly limitation. Rogues work best in packs.

[Ivory]

SK
Ranger
Paladin
Cleric
Enchanter or Shaman or Bard

But...most important is to play stuff you find fun!!! Create a group where you all play off each other and fill in for weaknesses and make it work! Going with the boring "established meta" will be "so leet" ...but also boring.

A new player playing an SK or Paladin is WAYYYYY more fun than "elite meta ogre warrior 149". The utility in spells and just RPing and playing the game outside of "leet raiders!" mentality is what the game is about!

[Swish]

SK
Cleric
Rogue
Rogue
Rogue
Rogue

I've been the SK in that situation and it was insane...thank you, good night ;)

[Evia]

Group of 4:
Warrior
Cleric
Enchanter
Rogue

Group of 5:
Add monk or shaman

[Evia]

So far it's looking like :
Warrior (seems better endgame wise, and with a Monk/Enchanter I think we will manage)
Cleric
Shaman
Enchanter
Rogue
Monk

Ace group. Pure perfection.

[Bagger]

A completely different question: I understand that there is no ingame map, and we're all gonna be different races. When is it recommended that we play together? And where is the best place to meet, with a full group of 6?

[Evia]

A completely different question: I understand that there is no ingame map, and we're all gonna be different races. When is it recommended that we play together? And where is the best place to meet, with a full group of 6?



Meet at lvl 5 in commonlands tunnel.

What races for which class?

[Bagger]

Meet at lvl 5 in commonlands tunnel.

What races for which class?

That's not totally set in stone yet, but no evil races.

A human monk and a barbarian Druid so far

[Evia]

That's not totally set in stone yet, but no evil races.

A human monk and a barbarian Druid so far

Assuming you mean barbarian shaman?

[Bagger]

Assuming you mean barbarian shaman?

Rubbish, you're right : Barbarian Shaman it is

[Swish]

Get 6 people who know what they're doing in their own class and who don't take frequent afk breaks and you're on for a good session whatever they are.

Starts with a good puller ^^

[Bagger]

Get 6 people who know what they're doing in their own class and who don't take frequent afk breaks and you're on for a good session whatever they are.

Starts with a good puller ^^

We're all noobs, god help us ^^

[Tecmos Deception]

I couldn't imagine doing 1-60+ with a premade group of 6 without cleric, enchanter, shaman as a base.

I'd do sk, rogue, dru for the other 3. But war, rogue, monk is a close second. Former gives the tank double roles and leaves the group light on DPS probably but means craaazzzyyy utility and safety via heals and CC and a more convenient tank for leveling and grinding. Latter has better tank, better pulls, better DPS but lacks the big utility a druid brings to the group as a wis caster with ports.

[kined]

if you want to be insanely OP do bard ench ench sk cleric. 6th could be anybody, probly a shaman or rogue. i know that you said no duplicates but its so fun, bard + 2 ench is so ridiculously insane its mind blowing, you only need the healer and tank for the toughest of mobs in the late 50's. with just the three of us we were encouraging people to train us because we literally could not pull enough mobs in karnors even though the zone wasnt very active. the bard keeps the ench's safe with speed, regen, and slows/quickCC for when the charms break. its unstoppable.

[Bagger]

if you want to be insanely OP do bard ench ench sk cleric. 6th could be anybody, probly a shaman or rogue. i know that you said no duplicates but its so fun, bard + 2 ench is so ridiculously insane its mind blowing, you only need the healer and tank for the toughest of mobs in the late 50's. with just the three of us we were encouraging people to train us because we literally could not pull enough mobs in karnors even though the zone wasnt very active. the bard keeps the ench's safe with speed, regen, and slows/quickCC for when the charms break. its unstoppable.

Gonna try that out someday

[Raev]

In Kunark your answer would be Monk/Cleric/Enchanter (scrubs add 3 more random classes, but a true power group isn't more than 3-4 players).

However, Velious has actually balanced group play pretty well. Druids for example were miserably bad in Kunark, but Velious gives them POTG, group regen clickies, and animals to charm in many Velious zones. So while a Kunark Druid in Sebilis is nearly worthless, a Velious druid is a powerhouse in Plane of Mischief or Kael.

So yeah, Monk/Enchanter/Cleric still works well, but you can do just fine with Paladin/Necro/Druid/Bard or SK/Mage/Shaman/Rogue or really just about anything. Just make sure you have at least one priest class, one melee class, and no Wizards.

[fastboy21]

If your goal is max leveling speed then I'd go with:

War (untwinked at low levels this is hard---might want sk/pally if totally new)
Enchanter
Cleric
Monk
Rogue
Rogue (no repeats? either a pure dps class or a bard.)

If you want a solid utility group that can play anywhere, but not always be the fastest leveling:

War
Cleric
Shaman
Enchanter
Monk
Bard

This group can play pretty much anywhere in the game. It isn't as fast as stacking multiple max DPS classes, but that isn't always what folks want. If I wanted to crawl around Norrath for the first time (you said you never played EQ before) this group is a good one to do it.

[astuce999]

My turn.


Bard - Tank + backup CC + mana + backup pulls + travel
Cleric - Buffs + c-heal + rezz
Enchanter - CC + mana + charm dps + haste
Shaman - stat buffs + slows + backup heal
Rogue - dps + CR + locked doors + backup pulls
Monk - backup tank + pulls + CR + dps

I would consider trading in the Monk for a Necro (backup heal, backup CC, charm dps, backup rezz) mainly so that there's a 2nd rez'er at higher levels.

cheers,

Astuce

[fadetree]

Ranger
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger

:)

But seriously, I think it's cool as hell if you really have 6 noobs playing EQ for the first time. My advice would be to go your own route completely; don't ask for buffs or tips or research stuff on the internet, don't farm plat and buy overpowered gear, etc. You have a chance to experience finding it all out as new players. This is something that I personally wish I could do.

[Bagger]

Ranger
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger

:)

But seriously, I think it's cool as hell if you really have 6 noobs playing EQ for the first time. My advice would be to go your own route completely; don't ask for buffs or tips or research stuff on the internet, don't farm plat and buy overpowered gear, etc. You have a chance to experience finding it all out as new players. This is something that I personally wish I could do.

^^

Well I think the best mmo is yet to come. Played wow for 8 years since 2005, and it took a different direction with the game after Wrath, which is fine, but it's not something for me. I like a good challenge, I've always heard nice things about EQ, and I want to try it out and see how it was at launch. The other guys didn't even know EQ, so this gonna be interesting ^^

Seems like I'm gonna be the group's Monk. If you have any tips, You're welcome to share them in another thread I started in Melee! Wants to be a bit prepared so I know what to aim for ^^

[Jetlag]

I'd be surprised if half your group makes it to 60 before quitting. As someone said before, nostalgia is a powerful drug. Since none of you have played before, there will be a large learning curve. (Even with the level of information available that did not exist before)

My suggestion: strongly assess the integrity and commitment of your companions before attempting to min/max group composition. Having a strong core (as Raev suggested) with suboptimal additions is far superior than building a theoretically strong group composition that never reaches its potential due to players losing interest.
Someone else also mentioned a group composed of powerful duo/trio combinations that can mix/match when others aren't on. That's another smart composition although it doesn't have the best overall potential, it is practical and very functional.

Your group will not be an island. Therefore, don't stress over-engineering the optimal group comp. EQ favors socializing over "skilled gameplay". The "small group" elite gameplay taking down planar content that you may have read about fails to highlight an important fact: Although they are well-played, they overgear that content using items acquired through 30-60 man raids.

Obligatory TLDR for the ADD generation:
You have a better chance of achieving what you want by allowing your companions to experiment and choose the class/play style they enjoy rather than limiting their options to a min/max selection of non-repeating classes.

[rollin5k]

Human paladin
human cleric
human enchanter
human rogue ( or monk if you like cheating )
Human wizard ( or druid for snares, not needed though )
Barbarian shaman

Start in qeynos

[Rygar]

Ranger
Necro
Enchanter
Druid
Bard
Mage

2 pet class are nice for min max, ranger pulls in outdoor zones and dps, bard for diversity and tank, chanter to crack, druid for travel, necro for twitch. Mage is great for mod rods later, mana is not a problem in this group.

[SoekiWiz]

Hi guys! Me and 4-5 other guys are gonna try EQ for the first time together.
So I've a question for you guys out there! What would be your favorite class composition which can last from start to end game (including raids - if it should comes to that).

Only one rule! There can't be 2 or more of the same class.

I haven't read any other posts in the thread, I'll get to those when the boredom of my first day back to work settles in.

That being said, I love this idea!

The fact that you and your buddies are all going to team up is also going to enhance the playing experience for you. I suppose my only question would be, after you've leveled everyone up and commence FarmQuesting, do you think you'll be spending the majority of your time still grouping together or raiding?

You may not even be able to answer that right now.

Assuming you're going to farm things together, I would go with:

ShadowKnight (Tank, FD Puller, Snare, great aggro management)
Cleric (Heals, Res)
Shaman (You'll eventually be able to easily 1 group the +6 neck dragons in WW and you're not getting a better patch heal than Torpor for your tank until that CH hits)
Enchanter OR Bard (Crowd control, mana regen, melee haste -- I'd personally like to see this group with a bard, but if you have someone essentially use their enchanter primarily as a DPS and charm kill, it'll be hard to out-DPS them) -- Also mind that if your whole group isn't together, Enc/Clr and or Enc/Shm are ridiculously powerful duo partners.
Rogue (Deeps)
Monk (Deeps) OR Necromancer (Very versatile. Can deeps, charm kill, twitch cleric, even heal to a minimal degree, summon corpses, etc)

They way I'd pick would be:

Talk to my buddies. See if anyone has a "OOH I WANNA PLAY THAT ONE" urge, and start checking them off the list. For example, if the last guy comes down to the Enchanter/Bard or the Monk/Necro choice, I'd just let that person choose.

Efficiency is great. Playing what you want to play is exponentially more important. I can tell you that I leveled my Wizard because my buddy told me his guild needed Wizards when I started playing again, and I've regretted it since.

I'm looking forward to seeing you guys get started!

Regards,

Soeki

[Morningbreath]

If you're going to do dungeons, a druid is a must. Escorting a melee out of a deep dungeon "Invis just dropped" is more trouble than its worth.

From there ench and cleric are obvious.

I'd rather have a SK for holding aggro/self invis over any other tank.

Rogue for good dps and sneak.

Monk can dps and they have FD if things get scary.

[Rygar]

Ranger
Necro
Enchanter
Druid
Bard
Mage

2 pet class are nice for min max, ranger pulls in outdoor zones and dps, bard for diversity and tank, chanter to crack, druid for travel, necro for twitch. Mage is great for mod rods later, mana is not a problem in this group.

Spaced on the cleric... Meaningful rez won't kick in until about 49, so not sure if really needed until end game. But would swap out ranger for cleric if you want to play safe. Possibly mage drop, but I love mages, very underrated.

[fastboy21]

If you're going to do dungeons, a druid is a must. Escorting a melee out of a deep dungeon "Invis just dropped" is more trouble than its worth.

From there ench and cleric are obvious.

I'd rather have a SK for holding aggro/self invis over any other tank.

Rogue for good dps and sneak.

Monk can dps and they have FD if things get scary.

Inviting a druid JUST for the utility of ports is a mistake in a min/max group. Getting to a dungeon/camp is a one time-fixed cost. Having a better DPS toon is far better if you are min/maxing.

Druids are a good learning class though. They do bring utility and some dps, so its not like they are useless (sorry wizards on p99 groups). They are also fun.

For the OP, if you all are new EQ is not an easy game to learn to play. Most of the reason p99 is so easy for many folks is that they have been learning the game for 15+ years. The best way to learn is to group with folks who know what they are doing...since you are 6 manning a full team of newbies that won't happen. I'd suggest playing whatever is fun for you all.

Good luck with this project. It will be a lot of fun if your team perseveres through the harsh learning curve of new players in EQ.

[Izmael]

Druid isn't just for ports. It has additional CC, support heals, regen, some DPS, tracking, SoW, snares, harmony and even charm in some situations.

[fastboy21]

Druid isn't just for ports. It has additional CC, support heals, regen, some DPS, tracking, SoW, snares, harmony and even charm in some situations.

Yes...but all of those are accomplished better by other classes. except porting.

Don't get me wrong, druid is a great and fun class. In a real situation they fit into almost any pick up group in random exp zones. Very good to have around. I think the OP's group should prob have one since his team is all new to EQ. The added redundancy will help if one of the new players makes a mistake or has to log/can't be on.

But in terms of min/maxing a static six man team that is speed lvl'ing or holding a tough named camp I would go with other classes first.

[immaterial]

my friends and i (4 of us total) roll with:

ENC
PAL
SHM
MAG

we've had good luck so far, but we're only about level 20.

[pasi]

For the purposes of this thread, agreed with the idea of picking classes that duo/trio well together. People play different times and different amount of times. You can't go wrong with a shell of enchanter/cleric/shaman.

For the purpose of absolute cutting edge of trying to kill something difficult with 6 people:
Warrior
Cleric
Cleric
Shaman
Pick 2 (Mage, Monk, Enchanter, Bard)

If target mob slowable + indoors + pet availability, add enchanter.
If FD pulling is necessary, add monk.
If unslowable, add mod-rods err mage.
If mob slowable + outdoors + AoE and party needs resists, add bard w/ tish orb.

For any constraints like no duplicates, sub a cleric out and don't bother with a mage/modrod setup if only 1 cleric.

[picklefixer]

A completely different question: I understand that there is no ingame map, and we're all gonna be different races. When is it recommended that we play together? And where is the best place to meet, with a full group of 6?

When you want to get the group together just let me know and ill gather everyone up and get you guys where you want to be.
Track me down on any of my toons...and ill get you there ! Ports, binds and starter spell pp's if wanted.
Mrtwig
Mrshamtastick
Mrmez
Mrlich

Edit: Oops, i play eastern time evenings...around 6pmish to 10pmish.

[Izmael]

>>>Druid isn't just for ports. It has additional CC, support heals, regen, some DPS, tracking, SoW, snares, harmony and even charm in some situations.

Yes...but all of those are accomplished better by other classes. except porting.



That's the trick, a druid ALONE does all that, leaving 5 spots to fill with min/maxing classes such as cle/enc/dps etc.

This is why the druid wins the spot in the group with very little struggle.

[WHUTZ MACKIN MOBSTAH]

1 tank (war/pal/sk)
1 healer (cler/dru/shm)
1 support (bard/enc)
3 dps (mage/wiz/rog/monk)

necros are not as good as mage/wiz in groups. necros got some good nukes vs. undead, plus they have a pet they can haste. necros have a ghetto heal and a ghetto mez. twitching is more like a raid utility and it's not worth it to twitch if you have a bard or enc in the group.

rangers are not as good as rog/monks in groups. rangers are decent if they keep DS on the tank. rangers can ghetto mez melee mobs with root. they can also sow the puller if there's no dru/shm in the grp or if the puller doesn't have jboots/traveler's boots/sow pot.

but necros and rangers can still be considered dps

[Swish]

1 tank (war/pal/sk)
1 healer (cler/dru/shm)
1 support (bard/enc)
3 dps (mage/wiz/rog/monk)

necros are not as good as mage/wiz in groups

rangers are not as good as rog/monks in groups

but necros and rangers can still be considered dps

Necros are a better option than a wizard if played right..and by that I mean mana pumping, heals over time, sending the pet in every fight and applying a dot if its a mob with a lot of health. Doing undead stuff? A charmed undead pet is going to blow a wizard's Netflix game out of the park.

Problem is a lot of necros either don't realize their potential or just want to be lazy and think that by sending Kekeker in every fight counts as being useful in a group.

[WHUTZ MACKIN MOBSTAH]

Necros are a better option than a wizard if played right

applying a dot if its a mob with a lot of health

Problem is a lot of necros don't realize their potential

yeah and necros can just feign death if they pull aggro while dotting a mob in a dungeon group, but if that FD fails then that = 1 dead necro

[fastboy21]

If you intentionally pick undead zones to play in then necros are extremely good.

if you min/maxing knowing where to play (which zone, camps, mobs, etc.) is as important a choice as the group composition.

[Bagger]

Another completly different question:

Our Rogue has a desire for being a Dark elf. Since the rest of the group is good, would it put him in a disadvantage? Can he sneak into cities that he would normally be KoS? And would he be able to do the same stuff and quests as us?

[fastboy21]

Another completly different question:

Our Rogue has a desire for being a Dark elf. Since the rest of the group is good, would it put him in a disadvantage? Can he sneak into cities that he would normally be KoS?

Its only really an issue for buying/selling. He can sneak and use merchants, or you all can just buy food for him while he waits outside.

It won't really effect gameplay, and dark elves start relatively close to freeport/kaladim. He will need to be careful when taking the boats at low lvl.

From a playing perspective...rogues get a dark elf illusion mask at relatively early level. so, if you play a good race rogue you will be able to illusion dark elf. This lets you pick a higher str starting race (barbarian or dwarf---or go cool and be gnome) and solve your faction issues for old world zones.

[Bagger]

Its only really an issue for buying/selling. He can sneak and use merchants, or you all can just buy food for him while he waits outside.

It won't really effect gameplay, and dark elves start relatively close to freeport/kaladim. He will need to be careful when taking the boats at low lvl.

From a playing perspective...rogues get a dark elf illusion mask at relatively early level. so, if you play a good race rogue you will be able to illusion dark elf. This lets you pick a higher str starting race (barbarian or dwarf---or go cool and be gnome) and solve your faction issues for old world zones.

What about quests and such?

[Morningbreath]

Inviting a druid JUST for the utility of ports is a mistake in a min/max group. Getting to a dungeon/camp is a one time-fixed cost. Having a better DPS toon is far better if you are min/maxing.

Are we talking about the same game? A dungeon camp may be a one-way trip for a caster who can gate out but not for melees. That's why people sit on the outer dungeon camps forever waiting for a spot to open up. Or they just give up and roll a caster.

Ask a cleric what they think about not having a backup healer. Poopsocking every night and healing through big pulls by yourself...that's another trip to the character select screen.

I just don't see the point in having a full regular group to do outdoor content. Leave that to the pugs.

[Twochain]

Iksar Monk (Tank/Pulls/Dps)
Enchanter
Shaman (Level 35+)
Cleric
Rogue
Rogue

[Teppler]

Shaman/chanter/monk is the holy trinity.

Otherwise I'd add necro then rogue.

[Teppler]

Necros are a better option than a wizard if played right..and by that I mean mana pumping, heals over time, sending the pet in every fight and applying a dot if its a mob with a lot of health. Doing undead stuff? A charmed undead pet is going to blow a wizard's Netflix game out of the park.

Problem is a lot of necros either don't realize their potential or just want to be lazy and think that by sending Kekeker in every fight counts as being useful in a group.

Necros can literally do anything mages and wizards can do in groups and better. Not to mention all the extra utility they have.

Necros are better and more effective nukers than mages and wizards because their mana regeneration is way higher.

Dps is higher with pets and exponentially higher with charmed pets.

Then necro has mez, snare, fd, dots and more.

[fastboy21]

What about quests and such?

It won't really affect quests. I can't think of a single good rogue quest that is dark elf only...and if there is most good rogues can illusion dark elf or sneak to do turn in.

Same vice versa. I don't recall any good rogue quests that a dark elf can't do.

Maybe there is something I'm forgetting. I've never rolled a DE rogue, so maybe there is some racial/deity benefit in there somewhere that I'm unaware of. Certainly nothing game changing though.

[fastboy21]

Are we talking about the same game? A dungeon camp may be a one-way trip for a caster who can gate out but not for melees. That's why people sit on the outer dungeon camps forever waiting for a spot to open up. Or they just give up and roll a caster.

Ask a cleric what they think about not having a backup healer. Poopsocking every night and healing through big pulls by yourself...that's another trip to the character select screen.

I just don't see the point in having a full regular group to do outdoor content. Leave that to the pugs.

If you have a good grp of smart players playing the right classes and you pick the right camp you will rarely need to evac. Again, I'm NOT saying its useless. For most groups it is extremely useful...and I even recommended druid to the OP. Same with back up healing and same with invising folks to your camp. Druid does help with all those tasks, but it isn't a needed thing if folks play right.

As a min/max grp, you're way better off risking not having evac and just dragging/96 rezzing. In terms of min/maxing time I'm 100% certain that the group that takes a pure DPS class over a druid is going to level faster. Lvl'ing faster is only one standard, but it a good one.

The truth of the matter is that taking a player of ANY class that knows how to play and isn't afk is a better choice than taking the best possible class if the player is a total idiot. The whole discussion is on ideal settings, ceteris paribus.

[Danth]

Disclaimer: I didn't read the entire thread.

For a pre-built group I recommend building in a certain element of redundancy instead of focusing on a min-max composition for specific tasks. Odds are you'll lose at least some of your group to attrition along the way, and it wouldn't be much fun if you lose, for example, your only healer.

For doing dungeons in a group with no repeat characters, the major jobs you want to have are a defensive melee (tank), a feign death puller/scouter, crowd control, debuffs (mainly slow), and healing. My preferred 5-man composition with the above considerations in mind is as follows: Shadow Knight, Monk, Shaman, Enchanter, Cleric. This composition provides redundancy for all jobs mentioned prior so you can lose any single person without crippling the group. Depending on who you lose, it's possible to lose several people and continue normally. Such a group comes with sufficient power to complete all standard group content in the game. Everquest is not that tightly tuned in terms of difficulty, and in truth the strongest solo classes can solo the great majority of group content.

You can replace the Cleric in favor of a Druid if you'd rather have ports than resurrection (or if someone wants stronger solo capability, as the Cleric solos only poorly). You can substitute the Enchanter for a Bard if desired. Any tank class works for the tank job, but the Shadow Knight's the only plate armor tank class that also has feign death, hence a different tank class sacrifices some role redundancy.

For a 6th person, you can add most anything to the above and it'll work fine since you already have the baseline jobs covered. Situational 6th-man considerations involve utility such as lock picking for accessing specific parts of some dungeons (Rogue), group teleport spells (Druid, Wizard), experience resurrection (Cleric, or Necromancer/Paladin at very high levels), and similar jobs. No single group can do absolutely everything, but a well-built group can do most of it without excessively relying on any single member. The most important thing is to pick classes and races you like, because people playing characters they like are more likely to stick with the game in the long run. An imperfect group might in that case be more enjoyable than a former group reduced to a duo.

Danth

[Bagger]

Disclaimer: I didn't read the entire thread.

For a pre-built group I recommend building in a certain element of redundancy instead of focusing on a min-max composition for specific tasks. Odds are you'll lose at least some of your group to attrition along the way, and it wouldn't be much fun if you lose, for example, your only healer.

For doing dungeons in a group with no repeat characters, the major jobs you want to have are a defensive melee (tank), a feign death puller/scouter, crowd control, debuffs (mainly slow), and healing. My preferred 5-man composition with the above considerations in mind is as follows: Shadow Knight, Monk, Shaman, Enchanter, Cleric. This composition provides redundancy for all jobs mentioned prior so you can lose any single person without crippling the group. Depending on who you lose, it's possible to lose several people and continue normally. Such a group comes with sufficient power to complete all standard group content in the game. Everquest is not that tightly tuned in terms of difficulty, and in truth the strongest solo classes can solo the great majority of group content.

You can replace the Cleric in favor of a Druid if you'd rather have ports than resurrection (or if someone wants stronger solo capability, as the Cleric solos only poorly). You can substitute the Enchanter for a Bard if desired. Any tank class works for the tank job, but the Shadow Knight's the only plate armor tank class that also has feign death, hence a different tank class sacrifices some role redundancy.

For a 6th person, you can add most anything to the above and it'll work fine since you already have the baseline jobs covered. Situational 6th-man considerations involve utility such as lock picking for accessing specific parts of some dungeons (Rogue), group teleport spells (Druid, Wizard), experience resurrection (Cleric, or Necromancer/Paladin at very high levels), and similar jobs. No single group can do absolutely everything, but a well-built group can do most of it without excessively relying on any single member.

The most important thing is to pick classes and races you like, because people playing characters they like are more likely to stick with the game in the long run. An imperfect group might in that case be more enjoyable than a former group reduced to a duo.

Danth

Our tank changed his mind from being a Warrior to a SK. So we got that exact comp. and then we have a rogue, so I think we're covered. I didn't expect at all to play a Monk, but I think it's funny surprise and I take up the challenge. I might create a Mage or Necro at the side.

My group has been used to meet up many consecutive evenings, so it is likely that we would be able to continue our group together.
We might not reach to the end, Pantheonmmo is also a thing, and I've to try that out, and that may completely stop my run in this community, but let's see.
I'm gonna start either tomorrow or Friday for the first time, so I'm really exited!

[Danth]

Good luck. This game was difficult for new players to get "in" to even when it was new; it's quite harsh on genuine newbies. Now it has the additional handicap of looking outdated too. It's very much an acquired taste!

Group teleports are in no way necessary, but they're very nice to have--probably the strongest non-combat utility in the game. Folks who decide to stick with this game are well-advised to consider that nobody ever went wrong in having a teleport-capable alternate character if they don't happen to have one as a main.

Edit: As a Monk, you'll in many cases set the pace for your group. Monks are usually expected to pull (everquest is often more of a "bring monsters to you" game rather than a "dungeon crawl" game), so you'll need to build a knowledge of local geometry, zone and dungeon layout, monster spawn locations and types (melee/caster/healer, etc), and so forth. The Monk can also act as a tank if necessary. The class seems simple to play at a glance since there aren't a ton of buttons, but it's a proactive role with much room for learning.

Danth

[Bagger]

Good luck. This game was difficult for new players to get "in" to even when it was new; it's quite harsh on genuine newbies. Now it has the additional handicap of looking outdated too. It's very much an acquired taste!

Group teleports are in no way necessary, but they're very nice to have--probably the strongest non-combat utility in the game. Folks who decide to stick with this game are well-advised to consider that nobody ever went wrong in having a teleport-capable alternate character if they don't happen to have one as a main.

Edit: As a Monk, you'll in many cases set the pace for your group. Monks are usually expected to pull (everquest is often more of a "bring monsters to you" game rather than a "dungeon crawl" game), so you'll need to build a knowledge of local geometry, zone and dungeon layout, monster spawn locations and types (melee/caster/healer, etc), and so forth. The Monk can also act as a tank if necessary. The class seems simple to play at a glance since there aren't a ton of buttons, but it's a proactive role with much room for learning.

Danth

I seek games that are harsh or even hardcore in nature, I only like my hand hold in the beginning and then figure or gather information about my next steps. If this game was made today with that kind of graphic I would have dropped it, but this is a classic, retro game so that shouldn't really bother me.

I'm looking forward to the challenge! And I hope to learn a lot about my role and be as effective and efficient as possible.

The only thing that is worrying me is, if it's gonna be hard to gather the whole group at Commonlands Tunnel.

[immaterial]

another note OP: if you will have a regular group, you might seriously consider rolling on Red. you'll have pretty much the entire server to yourselves, and since your group is designed to be self sufficient, you can go wherever you want to level and find whichever camps have gear you care about.

also, since you'll all be traveling in a group, you won't have to worry much about PKers giving you trouble.

Red also has the benefit of some nice experience bonuses that turn the leveling from a grind to a workable pace. that combined with nearly nonexistent competition for camps, and you can actually dungeon crawl with your buds instead of just sitting somewhere fighting the same 3 mobs over and over.

[WHUTZ MACKIN MOBSTAH]

Necros can literally do anything mages and wizards can do in groups and better. Not to mention all the extra utility they have.

Necros are better and more effective nukers than mages and wizards because their mana regeneration is way higher.

Dps is higher with pets and exponentially higher with charmed pets.

Then necro has mez, snare, fd, dots and more.

do necros DoT dungeon group mobs? dungeon mobs usually get burnt down fast.

i thought necros only DoT raid mobs? especially when the DPS has to wait a while for the tank to build full aggro on the raid mob before dpsing.

unlike raid mobs, DPS usually damage dungeon mobs right away when the tank has "sufficient" aggro, not "full" aggro.

plus necros' good DD's are against undead mobs, some dungeons don't have undead mobs.

[fastboy21]

do necros DoT dungeon group mobs? dungeon mobs usually get burnt down fast.

i thought necros only DoT raid mobs? especially when the DPS has to wait a while for the tank to build full aggro on the raid mob before dpsing.

unlike raid mobs, DPS usually damage dungeon mobs right away when the tank has "sufficient" aggro, not "full" aggro.

plus necros' good DD's are against undead mobs, some dungeons don't have undead mobs.

necros can charm undead for some very high dps in many popular exp zones. they also can heal/pump mana. they also can cc (necro mez and regular root).

necro DD spells aren't specific only to undead.

necros are actually a really good group class, but they frequently get overlooked because most necros prefer to solo.

their utility really shines in undead zones, but thankfully for necros many of the popular exp zones 1-50 have undead.

[Swish]

Necros can literally do anything mages and wizards can do in groups and better. Not to mention all the extra utility they have.

Necros are better and more effective nukers than mages and wizards because their mana regeneration is way higher.

Dps is higher with pets and exponentially higher with charmed pets.

Then necro has mez, snare, fd, dots and more.

Just don't use the scent spell line or a poison nuke at 90%, tanks will hate you forever :p

[Teppler]

Analyze the difference between necro nukes and wiz/mage nukes. Then analyze the difference in mana regeneration.

Pretty sure once necro gets its first lich spell they become the best group dd class. Their lich spells get more and more relatively powerful too. This includes the necros regular and undead dds. They really aren't that different.

[Spit]

Warrior Monk Monk Enchanter Shaman Cleric , can toss a monk out for a bard s
ometimes

[fugazi]

Cleric
Enchanter
Necro
Bard
Shaman
Druid

Charms. Snares. Fears. Mana regen. Utility. They might start a lil slow, but any group that can have 5 charmed lets at once is gonna be sick. I do pity the cleric tho.

Barring that, any group with a ranger and a bard will rock. Many of the more popular zones are outdoor dungeons so with harmony, track and bards aoe mez, you can go ham even with crappy gear. Add in a cleric, shaman, enchanter and maybe a monk and you should be able to take on any zone in the game :)

[tyrant49333]

For a 5 man -
1. Monk
2. Cleric
3. Shaman
4. Enchanter
5. Rogue

For a 4 man -
1. Monk
2. Cleric
3. Shaman
4. Enchanter

/thread

[pogs4ever]

XP buzz saw:

Bard
Monk x 2
Rogue x 2
Necro

Everyone has to know how to manage their agro.

[rollin5k]

Half elf Ranger
Half elf druid
Erudite wizard
Erudite paladin
Half elf rogue

I call this one reverse discrimination

[Swish]

Half elf Ranger
Half elf druid
Erudite wizard
Erudite paladin
Half elf rogue

I call this one reverse discrimination

Sounds like you just excluded about 10 races there chief, I'll be marching through Paineel in protest later.

[AenorVZ]

Alot of opinions on this

Heres mine:

War
Clr
Enc
Bard
Rogue
Monk

Pretty much. Some might want a Shaman in there.

[EdTuBrutus]

Man there are some damn weird ideas in this thread. Its a 16 year old game, it's not a mystery.

You want a Cleric, a Shaman and an Enchanter.

After that it doesn't hugely matter.

A Cleric, Shaman and Enchanter is the basis for so many groups because it trivialises the content without needing a huge amount of concentration (which is a much undervalued consideration in a game which takes hundreds of hours to just level up). And for your set up - because there will be times that people can't play etc - it has the added bonus of only NEEDING two out the three to be nearly fully functional.

It isn't a min-max set up, but thats not what's being asked for. The request is for a group make up that will be functional throughout the game from 1 to 60 and that pretty much means CLR ENC SHM and whatever else. Personally, I'd make your 4th a Monk to tank and pull and your 5th a Rogue to DPS and avoid agro. But pretty much any combination for the last two slots will be fine, even if MNK ROG is optimal.

As for the min max thing, that is a known anwser too. It's MNK, SHM and as many ROG as the spawn supports. This is always the answer to the question, at all levels.