Vex Thal and Srra Temple + AA's

[Ikon]

Even though I love Luclin personally - I'm a hard core classic nazi but I consider Luclin part of classic -, I understand a lot of people like the drudgery and pain of EC tunnel and don't like Vah Shir (even though we have Kerrans)...

Would people be opposed to AA's and adding the two dungeons above if the developers wanted to add them? Why? Why Not?

I loved Ssraa, was cool as doing the Rhags, didn't personally like Vex Thal because it was a pain in the ass, badly designed and full of mobs that hated enchanter.

Would give guilds much harder dungeons to fight over, adding aa's would give them a reason to exp too.

Soooo you know where that fake zoneline is in Ro? Great place to put two dungeons right???

[silo32]

promotes a different kind of growth, after you equip your 33rd lvl 60 with epic and ntov gear the game does get a lil dull. AA's would really seperate the main chars and encourage smaller scale raids with friends. Lets do it.

[Swish]

I'd love to see more custom content at the end of the patch timeline in any form. Maybe the additon of those zones could happen :)

I know it's not often played anymore but the Hidden Forest server has an unclassic zone map with some strange connections... that's worth a look if you like the idea of what "could be"

[elwing]

while luclin was bad, there's some great content inside... I hope the dev will make use of them for new custom contant once we'll have enough velious...

[Vibe]

Luclin brought in beastlords too didnt it? luclin was the last expansion i liked but naww, it just changed the game way too much

[Ivory]

Gnome paladins and shadowknights plz.

[Uuruk]

I hear Luclin is currently scheduled for 2026

[Nuggie]

Maybe on a different server.

[Ikon]

I hear Luclin is currently scheduled for 2026
Not Luclin, 2 Luclin dungeons and AA's.

[fadetree]

This is a good idea, and those are the 2 'best' dungeons from that period if I recall correctly. I'd love to see the AA's. The dungeons would have to be embedded in their world (meaning other zones would need to be there) in my opinion to work well, but I wouldn't object.

[Daldaen]

If they don't want to do Luclin in it's entirety (which they should because it's an amazing expansion). This is the custom content that should be done:

Add a portal to Ssraeshza in Vulak's room. It only opens if every mob north of the Aaryonar stairs is dead. To require two or three guilds to coordinate and clear the wing before repops occur.

Once inside, you may bind everyone (including melee) at the entrance, but this is the only way to return (forces people to give up ToV binds).

When inside Ssra, everything functions properly. Emp Key and all raid mobs included. The Emperor event proceeds as normal and the Planes Riffs typically used for the VT are changed to be a 5 dose charge Vex Thal portal. So that guilds may port a raid to VT and continue to have to defeat Emperor on the regular to regain access to Vex Thal.

Just add in all the classic Luclin AAs. No need to do anything special here.

Should also add Nexus as a meeting place/portal location and Bazaar/Shadowhaven for trading and tradeskilling purposes.

[Uuruk]

If they don't want to do Luclin in it's entirety (which they should because it's an amazing expansion). This is the custom content that should be done:

Add a portal to Ssraeshza in Vulak's room. It only opens if every mob north of the Aaryonar stairs is dead. To require two or three guilds to coordinate and clear the wing before repops occur.

Once inside, you may bind everyone (including melee) at the entrance, but this is the only way to return (forces people to give up ToV binds).

When inside Ssra, everything functions properly. Emp Key and all raid mobs included. The Emperor event proceeds as normal and the Planes Riffs typically used for the VT are changed to be a 5 dose charge Vex Thal portal. So that guilds may port a raid to VT and continue to have to defeat Emperor on the regular to regain access to Vex Thal.

Just add in all the classic Luclin AAs. No need to do anything special here.

Should also add Nexus as a meeting place/portal location and Bazaar/Shadowhaven for trading and tradeskilling purposes.

[Aaramis]

Phinigel progression server on live is super popular right now for some of the aforementioned reasons, including:

- content past Velious. A lot of people will bemoan parts of Luclin, as well as later expansions such as OoW / GoD, but the truth is that AAs filled in a lot of gaps in class weaknesses, and Luclin + PoP had some truly amazing content.

- instanced raids. Yes, on Phinigel, there's no poopsocking of raid mobs, as the raid mob areas were changed to private instanced zones. So people could now schedule their raids, and knock out several targets in a couple of hours. Epics are somewhat trivialized as a result, but at least you'd have a chance and not have to farm ridiculous amounts of cash to pay off the neckbeards who are poopsocking the hard to get items.


If P99 added some or all of these extras, I feel it would add a ton of longevity to the server.

[fastboy21]

The dev team has talked about releasing custom content, if someone can find the links.

From what I remember, they basically said they would use the zones and models from other expansions (iirc they mentioned places like Ssraa), but they would be re-itemized and tuned to velious-era difficulty.

I do not recall them mentioning any plans to ever release AAs.

They also said it would be a very long way away.

[LostCause]

why pretty simple either play p99 or don't

[Dolalin]

P99 is due to become fossilized, as the devs burn out and don't fix stuff / release new stuff, but don't bring anyone else onto the team with the power to manage the project and make critical decisions.

[Brut]

Just go kill thifling focusers in Growth if you really miss VT.

[pasi]

I love Luclin, but it is a CSR nightmare. I can only imagine how terrible it would be with Project1999s lust for pixels. I'm of the opinion that Luclin CSR issues was the primary reason PoTime was quasi-instanced.

Most mobs are perma-rooted. Amazing for FTE disputes.

Shitty behavior from live:
Engaging Taskmasters (duoable) to FTE cursed cycle.
Griefing enemy guilds by standing in on Cursed AE.
6 manning Rhag1 to claim the cycle until you leave zone.
Blowing blood spawns with no intention of killing Emp.
Leapfrogging in Vex Thal, Sseru, and on the way to High Priest and XtC.

Luclin was a degenerate raid scene on live servers. I can only imagine how much worse it could get here.

[StarLord]

Releasing Luclin would make this server full time playable again to me. AAs really keep the max lvls busy and logging in or at least they did on live. Not real sure what a raid geared 60 would do in a normal day in p99. Maybe watch some spam in ec.

A progression server on live isn't a suitable replacement for p99 though. I see those saying as they always do when you suggest something be released on p99 " go play progression" except they are past a pay wall. I'm not personally going to pay a monthly fee to play content i beat 13 years ago, if they where ftp like the live servers maybe. But seeing how Pg servers worked out while i was playing eq2 makes them even less appealing. It's the strangest system they have (normal live servers free) (1 expansion worth of old content 14.99$) Each expansion was getting blown through in a month or less.

I've listened to sirkin's streams enough to know it's never going to happen but i can't help wondering "if you're not going to open any more expansions why bother keeping the server up?"

P.S. meanwhile i see another emu server says it has oow content now ...winning

[StarLord]

I love Luclin, but it is a CSR nightmare. I can only imagine how terrible it would be with Project1999s lust for pixels. I'm of the opinion that Luclin CSR issues was the primary reason PoTime was quasi-instanced.

Most mobs are perma-rooted. Amazing for FTE disputes.

Shitty behavior from live:
Engaging Taskmasters (duoable) to FTE cursed cycle.
Griefing enemy guilds by standing in on Cursed AE.
6 manning Rhag1 to claim the cycle until you leave zone.
Blowing blood spawns with no intention of killing Emp.
Leapfrogging in Vex Thal, Sseru, and on the way to High Priest and XtC.

Luclin was a degenerate raid scene on live servers. I can only imagine how much worse it could get here.

You're not wrong but I'm not sure i see things being any better here. What i read above is "The same problems we have now will transfer to another expansion."

Mostly because they refuse to look at instancing like sony did when it was obvious that it would fix every single petition quest problem they ever had. and it did.

[Uuruk]

Releasing Luclin would make this server full time playable again to me. AAs really keep the max lvls busy and logging in or at least they did on live. Not real sure what a raid geared 60 would do in a normal day in p99. Maybe watch some spam in ec.

A progression server on live isn't a suitable replacement for p99 though. I see those saying as they always do when you suggest something be released on p99 " go play progression" except they are past a pay wall. I'm not personally going to pay a monthly fee to play content i beat 13 years ago, if they where ftp like the live servers maybe. But seeing how Pg servers worked out while i was playing eq2 makes them even less appealing. It's the strangest system they have (normal live servers free) (1 expansion worth of old content 14.99$) Each expansion was getting blown through in a month or less.

I've listened to sirkin's streams enough to know it's never going to happen but i can't help wondering "if you're not going to open any more expansions why bother keeping the server up?"

P.S. meanwhile i see another emu server says it has oow content now ...winning

Krono's are like 8 dolllars and once you max level you will never have to pay a sub fee again.

[Zekayy]

Rogean Ripped out the code for AAs along time ago

[pasi]

You're not wrong but I'm not sure i see things being any better here. What i read above is "The same problems we have now will transfer to another expansion."

Mostly because they refuse to look at instancing like sony did when it was obvious that it would fix every single petition quest problem they ever had. and it did.

If it wasn't obvious from my post and history, I think instancing (raid zones) solves the majority of issues of early EQ. Its been the solution to rare mob scarcity in every MMORPG (including Everquest) since it was introduced.

[Topgunben]

If it wasn't obvious from my post and history, I think instancing (raid zones) solves the majority of issues of early EQ. Its been the solution to rare mob scarcity in every MMORPG (including Everquest) since it was introduced.

exactly. IMO there is plenty of content, but week-long spawns stifle the raid experience.

[Daldaen]

I love Luclin, but it is a CSR nightmare. I can only imagine how terrible it would be with Project1999s lust for pixels. I'm of the opinion that Luclin CSR issues was the primary reason PoTime was quasi-instanced.

Most mobs are perma-rooted. Amazing for FTE disputes.

Shitty behavior from live:
Engaging Taskmasters (duoable) to FTE cursed cycle.
Griefing enemy guilds by standing in on Cursed AE.
6 manning Rhag1 to claim the cycle until you leave zone.
Blowing blood spawns with no intention of killing Emp.
Leapfrogging in Vex Thal, Sseru, and on the way to High Priest and XtC.

Luclin was a degenerate raid scene on live servers. I can only imagine how much worse it could get here.

A few solutions to the above:

One of the two Rhozth for the cursed cycle is on the 7 day timer, that should be the only one whose FTE matters. But on P99 of course, nerds would be ready to engage and kill those with around the 1 group required to kill it for its entire window just like they poopsocked Trakanon with full CotH groups entire windows.

I assume you're referring to the mass charm AE. I think that's a non-issue. While entertaining, guilds could easily just group up their DPS toons on the charmed players 1-by-1 and kill them very fast. Granted if you have 40 standing in the middle of your raid that would be a problem, but just due to lag that would be a problem regardless.

Per P99 rules Rhag would follow the Statue rule, 20min to engage the next one or it becomes FFA.

Blood slaying is similar to Statue slaying. Guilds eventually came to an agreement to not waste them, but it just takes a few people to screw that up if they want to.

Leapfrogging would be real. Plus the current FTE rules really do not account for perma-rooted mobs. The current guilds that kill said mobs have an agreement amongst themselves of how to handle these but with even more perma rooted mobs like XTC/HP/Rhags, plus leapfrogging it would definitely be interesting.

----------

Luclin's larger amount of hitpoints and the inability to zone-pull most of these mobs, would help the raid scene a bit since its not so much of a in-and-out style raiding that allows guilds to compete for damn near everything in Velious. When you're having to actually clear up to High Priest, or the Arx chamber for LiS... it would occupy guilds further. Allowing other guilds to raid Velious content they've been missing out on.

--Though in fairness, fixing chase distances would resolve this in its current state anyways--

Once Luclin drops, basically Vulak and AoW are the only raids worth doing for your tank rings, most of the rest of the loot isn't worth guild's time. Tunare still has useful drops but without being able to classicly PBAE down the zone, doubt anyone would continue to bother on a regular basis.

Mostly due to Focii/FT/ATK worn effects on items, the nerd guilds would stay exclusively in Luclin.

I'm sure Luclin on P99 would cause quite a few dumpster fires. Praesertum socking, Emperor socking, and a few other things to prevent guilds from contesting certain content due to keying. But more content is always a good thing for a top-heavy raid scene.

[Nicoladen]

I could see Luclin being part of a whole new server.
Timeline with expansions should be strict.
If the timeline is followed the Luclin AA's would be in effect before people had made 40 alts and they would focus more on their mains.
This would also make it a healthier raid environment - since people don't have lvl 60 alts logged out at every corner to jump bosses.
Only thing I would remove from Luclin was the ability to setup a vendor in the bazaar and the timed portals which kinda screwed porting classes.

[Daldaen]

I could see Luclin being part of a whole new server.
Timeline with expansions should be strict.
If the timeline is followed the Luclin AA's would be in effect before people had made 40 alts and they would focus more on their mains.
This would also make it a healthier raid environment - since people don't have lvl 60 alts logged out at every corner to jump bosses.
Only thing I would remove from Luclin was the ability to setup a vendor in the bazaar and the timed portals which kinda screwed porting classes.

In no way whatsoever did Nexus screw up porting classes. An average of 22.5 min travel time between 5 specific portals is helpful to an extremely narrow set of individuals. Most everyone pays for ports to skip this wait time. This is currently true on Phinigel, almost no one is using the nexus spires. Mostly just noobs with no money or people who are mostly AFK.

Bazaar is incredible and makes you not have to interact with people at their worst when they're trying to make a quick buck flipping/reselling things for a profit.

[Nicoladen]

In no way whatsoever did Nexus screw up porting classes. An average of 22.5 min travel time between 5 specific portals is helpful to an extremely narrow set of individuals. Most everyone pays for ports to skip this wait time. This is currently true on Phinigel, almost no one is using the nexus spires. Mostly just noobs with no money or people who are mostly AFK.

Bazaar is incredible and makes you not have to interact with people at their worst when they're trying to make a quick buck flipping/reselling things for a profit.

You might be right about nexus - I may have confused this with the PoK stones.

I do like the interaction ppl have when buying and selling from each other instead of trading with a robot / auction house.

But I guess I could live with having these in - Hereby granted! I rule: You are allowed to have bazaar and Nexus too!

[Daldaen]

I like to interact with people in small groups or in raids. That's what MMOs are for.

I have zero interest in interacting with someone trying to get a good deal and undercutting my asking price or people who are reselling and trying to price gouge. There's a reason most people hate dealing with used car salesmen.

Likewise I have gain no real pleasure in the two interactions I get with a porter or being a porter. "Where to?" And "have a good day". I gain nothing from this interaction, it's no different from interacting with an NPC merchant.

That's why Nexus and Bazaar are good. The nexus is just another flavor of boats. Hang around for a long time and you get to your very limited destination choices. The bazaar just let you cut out dealing with the resellers and the beggars. You could still auction and deal with them or give away your gear if you wished in the bazaar, it just wasn't required to get your items sold anymore.

[Ikon]

I like to interact with people in small groups or in raids. That's what MMOs are for.

I have zero interest in interacting with someone trying to get a good deal and undercutting my asking price or people who are reselling and trying to price gouge. There's a reason most people hate dealing with used car salesmen.

Likewise I have gain no real pleasure in the two interactions I get with a porter or being a porter. "Where to?" And "have a good day". I gain nothing from this interaction, it's no different from interacting with an NPC merchant.

That's why Nexus and Bazaar are good. The nexus is just another flavor of boats. Hang around for a long time and you get to your very limited destination choices. The bazaar just let you cut out dealing with the resellers and the beggars. You could still auction and deal with them or give away your gear if you wished in the bazaar, it just wasn't required to get your items sold anymore.
Yeah no idea why people like the EC tunnel. On my server there were pc vendors but also the usual /auctions in bazaar. Don't see any difference other than time sink.

[liveitup1216]

If P99 added some or all of these extras, I feel it would add a ton of longevity to the server.

Making the game easier / faster would be the antithesis to longevity... :confused:

[Ikon]

Making the game easier / faster would be the antithesis to longevity... :confused:
How do you think adding aa's + 2 high level dungeons from Luclin might make the server easier / faster?

Edit: Oh nevermind, instanced dungeons, yeah that'd be shite. I like the competition / difficulty of non-instanced content - without the anti-social behavior though, its possible to be polite and compete imo.

[pasi]

A few solutions to the above:

One of the two Rhozth for the cursed cycle is on the 7 day timer, that should be the only one whose FTE matters. But on P99 of course, nerds would be ready to engage and kill those with around the 1 group required to kill it for its entire window just like they poopsocked Trakanon with full CotH groups entire windows.

I assume you're referring to the mass charm AE. I think that's a non-issue. While entertaining, guilds could easily just group up their DPS toons on the charmed players 1-by-1 and kill them very fast. Granted if you have 40 standing in the middle of your raid that would be a problem, but just due to lag that would be a problem regardless.

Per P99 rules Rhag would follow the Statue rule, 20min to engage the next one or it becomes FFA.

Blood slaying is similar to Statue slaying. Guilds eventually came to an agreement to not waste them, but it just takes a few people to screw that up if they want to.

Leapfrogging would be real. Plus the current FTE rules really do not account for perma-rooted mobs. The current guilds that kill said mobs have an agreement amongst themselves of how to handle these but with even more perma rooted mobs like XTC/HP/Rhags, plus leapfrogging it would definitely be interesting.

----------

Luclin's larger amount of hitpoints and the inability to zone-pull most of these mobs, would help the raid scene a bit since its not so much of a in-and-out style raiding that allows guilds to compete for damn near everything in Velious. When you're having to actually clear up to High Priest, or the Arx chamber for LiS... it would occupy guilds further. Allowing other guilds to raid Velious content they've been missing out on.

--Though in fairness, fixing chase distances would resolve this in its current state anyways--

Once Luclin drops, basically Vulak and AoW are the only raids worth doing for your tank rings, most of the rest of the loot isn't worth guild's time. Tunare still has useful drops but without being able to classicly PBAE down the zone, doubt anyone would continue to bother on a regular basis.

Mostly due to Focii/FT/ATK worn effects on items, the nerd guilds would stay exclusively in Luclin.

I'm sure Luclin on P99 would cause quite a few dumpster fires. Praesertum socking, Emperor socking, and a few other things to prevent guilds from contesting certain content due to keying. But more content is always a good thing for a top-heavy raid scene.

Good post.

EQlive wasn't crystal clear on PnP issues like this. Was pointing out stuff that occurred on the regular in Luclin. I think you underestimate the effect of having 40-50 people charmed and unleashed on the tanks + clerics behind the stone; however it's pretty easy to police.

I doubt people would actually blow Blood spawns here as well. The purpose of blowing Blood was to deny an Emperor you didn't have enough online to kill as it was not your guild's prime-time. Time-zones don't appear to be a thing here.

I'd argue that most of Velious is still worth doing even with Luclin. Spawns are 3-7 days and usually drop 2-4 pieces of loot. Stuff like Belt of Dwarf Slaying, Gauntlets of Dragonslaying, White-dragonscale Boots, etc. are going to be an upgrade for someone even if they aren't BiS. Almost everything in NToV (plus Dozekar) falls into this category as well. Isn't Phara Dar still chain killed on P99? I think the main argument against this is the opportunity cost of exping with that time.

I don't know of any decent solution for leapfrogging. My server had a gentleman's agreement in VT that you could pick the opposite wing and race (i.e. DXT vs DXXT to TVK or DXVT vs TXD to Mini-Aten). I'm not sure how to approach this on HP or XtC as you can engage their boss-specific trash with 2-3 people.

I agree with fixing chase distances. Without doing such, you can actually pull the vast majority of Vex Thal (the ones I'm not aware of how to pull are ones we always CotH'd to). Taunt does not check Z-axis. Pets do account for Z-axis, but it's calculated similarly to just distance to them. The zone is very symmetrical with bosses often on the floor directly above other bosses. Aten Blobs are above TVXs and the like. You can also send pets on Aten Blobs from the corners of the palace on the outer portion of the zone.

Praesertum socking would be something to see.

[Croco]

Luclin is classic.

[lurk]

AAs or rechargeable clickies. Pick one. I think adding luclin is a bad idea because the content is mostly just as difficult as velious (eg simple as fuck), with more hp and ac...but with a ton more mana regen and focus effects.

Personally i think plane of tranquility should be opened somehow and done with no AAs and at level 60. Only add boss loot and remove focus effects. This provides a real challenge and keeps things classic. If you manage to kill a god at that level then you deserve your extra +15 hp or whatever. Mobs like bertox and mith marr would be damn near impossible and drop weapons slightly better than vulak.

If anything i would expect p99 to destroy RZ because of their superior training skills and his relatively low max hit.

[Haynar]

I have been doing some pathing and parsing mobs in Luclin lately. I forgot how fun some of those zones are.

Have fun in Velious.

[Uuruk]

I have been doing some pathing and parsing mobs in Luclin lately. I forgot how fun some of those zones are.

Have fun in Velious.

[Nicoladen]

I have been doing some pathing and parsing mobs in Luclin lately. I forgot how fun some of those zones are.

Have fun in Velious.

Please tell me you are considering!! pleeeeeeaaaaase :D

[lurk]

If anything atleast acrylia ring was interesting in luclin. High priest was fun. Shei was kinda cool. On this server emp would be pulled to zone in...same with seru. Those things were done on live. On live VT was a shitshow of Coth bots, i cant even imagine the ingenuity to skip content this server would discover.

[Daldaen]

Most every boss has a safe or pseudo safe CotH bot location. TXD didn't. The DXVT CotH spot was right on top of a trap, so you needed 2-3 manly rogues to tank it while you CotH in a Tank, Slower and Cleric. Then you would inevitably aggro DXVT early because you're trying to CotH an entire raid behind some tiny pillar in his room.

Just need to fix chase distances and Seru/Emp zoneline pulls wouldn't happen (nor would ToV ones for that matter).

[Ivory]

I have been doing some pathing and parsing mobs in Luclin lately. I forgot how fun some of those zones are.

Have fun in Velious.

Space cats confirmed!!!!!

[Haynar]

Please tell me you are considering!! pleeeeeeaaaaase :D

Not here. But it is being developed on a server that allows "boxing"!!!!

I am very pro boxing. The anti-boxing hatred here is my biggest turnoff.

I am trying to pick back up doing coding for p99. So I am making a list of p99 code stuff to work on over next few weeks. I owe a few fixes for some stuff in progress.

[Ivory]

I am trying to pick back up doing coding for p99. So I am making a list of p99 code stuff to work on over next few weeks. I owe a few fixes for some stuff in progress.

Gnome paladins / sks confirmed!!!!

[Haynar]

Gnome paladins / sks confirmed!!!!

Gnome SKs just make portable meals for ogre war parties.

Gnome SKs are just WRONG!!!!

[pasi]

Not here. But it is being developed on a server that allows "boxing"!!!!

I am very pro boxing. The anti-boxing hatred here is my biggest turnoff.

I am trying to pick back up doing coding for p99. So I am making a list of p99 code stuff to work on over next few weeks. I owe a few fixes for some stuff in progress.

The Velious Beta server was a thing of beauty. Mostly empty zones, P1999 code, and boxxing enabled.

[Daldaen]

The Velious Beta server was a thing of beauty. Mostly empty zones, P1999 code, and boxxing enabled.

Concur. WTB Luclin Beta server. Let us copy characters over...

[Swish]

Concur. WTB Luclin Beta server. Let us copy characters over...

Sorry that's for the upcoming Project 1999 Discord server, hands off.

[Ivory]

Gnome SKs just make portable meals for ogre war parties.

Gnome SKs are just WRONG!!!!

But but but.....just imagine a gnome shadowknight archer running around the world pew pewing things with arrows as her skeleton pet follows trying to help!

It would be magic! Magggiiiccc.

[fadetree]

Gnome SKs just make portable meals for ogre war parties.

Gnome SKs are just WRONG!!!!

As are assling Rangers.

[Amyas]

I loved luclin =) the last lv 60 expansion. I loved farming AA's in all my old favorite zones! Go luclin but never pop!

[Raev]

I do like the interaction ppl have when buying and selling from each other instead of trading with a robot / auction house.

If you find 'WTB port to CS' and 'come to SF ramp' and 'Would you take my Jade Mace + Flawless Diamond for your fungi tunic' to be rewarding personal interactions I don't know what to tell you.

[Haynar]

Copying over the TAKP code for NPC leashing and sneak not clearing FD aggro would be fantastic and (I hope) easy?
Not easy. But ya. I would like to get in the leashing for sure. Some of the takp mechanics are really nice.

Not sure how sneak and fd interact. But can check what was different on takp. I know invis should assist in clearing fd. Sneak. Not that i ever knew of. Stand, invis with pre-nerf, and if mob didnt see thru invis, ur golden. I think lines between sneak and invis mechanics are too blurred.

H

[Daldaen]

Leasing would be a game changer on P99.

I think Torven did some pretty robust testing of the distance per zone. Some of his findings were peculiar... like certain zones he marked down as a 200' leash range while others were 600'. And furthermore some mobs were unlimited like VP dragons while the trash in the zone leashes normally. Edit: here it is: http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39819

To get it correct would be a very big undertaking and you're still making some assumptions. But I think setting it to something like 600' for all zones would be an improvement over the current state.

This was only in Kunark/Velious zones per the old guides... on live all zones leash though.

[Haynar]

There were leashing distance changes from classic to AK era. 600 in most zones works. But some should also be like 1200. I did some bug fixes involved with leashing on takp, and they helped me understand it to where I can reproduce it. Thats hardest part in porting over stuff. If I didnt write it, I basically end up starting over. I see Torven do it this way, and I want to do it that way instead.

[Cave Troll]

Leashing is the only thing that made everquest classic, a monster would follow you until the end of time.

EVERQUEST

[lurk]

End of time meaning a few hundred feet or 10 minutes? I remember pulling chardok royals to zone in, if i agrod king with my pet and ran beyond the castle he would lazy agro... I had to stop several times to get him to follow me. If he gated, he would not persue or summon. After 10 minutes agro was dropped.

I remember doing parses on mage equipted pets with hold on. After 10 minutes the mob would still attack your pet from riposte and whatnot but your agro was cleared.

[Haynar]

I dont think the 10 min aggro drop is on p99 either. If you havent added hate in 10 min, dropping you is on takp. Torven was very thorough on hate mechanics there. I will add that to the list.

H

[Daldaen]

A few other differences from Al'Kabor/TAK to P99 I noted which I believe are classic behavior but missing on this server.:

Mesmerize spells. Currently you cannot overwrite a level 4 mez spell with a level 49 mez spell. You should be able to do this when a solo enchanter. The only thing that prevented mesmerize spells from overwriting is when the casters are different levels. IE a level 59 enchanter cannot overwrite a level 60 enchanter.

Also the memory blur component on a mez spell should only take place when the spell is new. Meaning casting Mesmerize (level 4) three times in a row on a mob, only the initial mez should roll the dice on memory blur. Whereas if you cast Mesmerize and then Dazzle and then Mesmerize, all three should roll the dice on memory blur because it is a new spell each time. Or if you cast Mesmerize and then led the mez fade and then recast, both of those would roll the dice on memory blur.

[Raev]

Not easy. But ya. I would like to get in the leashing for sure. Some of the takp mechanics are really nice.


Heh. Raiding guilds on Project 1999 would cry if it took more than 5 minutes to kill a dragon.

[Haynar]

Another mechanic we descovered was pulling GoV dragons to zonein in ToV. If you got hit, secondary CoV factions assisted. Even HoT mobs that give no CoV hits. And running GoV thru, if you werent above indifferent (i think) 4-way mobs assisted HoT and GoV mobs.

[Amyas]

If you find 'WTB port to CS' and 'come to SF ramp' and 'Would you take my Jade Mace + Flawless Diamond for your fungi tunic' to be rewarding personal interactions I don't know what to tell you.

LMAO can also dissable AH

[Amyas]

Not here. But it is being developed on a server that allows "boxing"!!!!

I am very pro boxing. The anti-boxing hatred here is my biggest turnoff.

I am trying to pick back up doing coding for p99. So I am making a list of p99 code stuff to work on over next few weeks. I owe a few fixes for some stuff in progress.

Will it stop at luclin and stay 60?

[Daldaen]

Will it stop at luclin and stay 60?

It will stop at PoP. EQs best expansion $$$.

[Amyas]

It will stop at PoP. EQs best expansion $$$.

=(

[Daldaen]

Wrong face. You meant to use the :).

For the expansion with the most in depth raid content spanning all difficulty and raid sizes. Tradeskills have a purpose. All classes have a good role on raids and finally the oddball classes like Wizard and Ranger are top tier DPS with proper AAs/Gear. Groups all form up in a central hub to facilitate easy PuGing. A central city allows people to congregate and interact.

EQ at its best.

[Haynar]

Wrong face. You meant to use the :).

For the expansion with the most in depth raid content spanning all difficulty and raid sizes. Tradeskills have a purpose. All classes have a good role on raids and finally the oddball classes like Wizard and Ranger are top tier DPS with proper AAs/Gear. Groups all form up in a central hub to facilitate easy PuGing. A central city allows people to congregate and interact.

EQ at its best.
Classic EQ is akin to high school, for those that remember them being the best days of their lives. PoP is more for people who moved on, have a better life, and realize that no matter how you spin it, high school sucked.

[Amyas]

Wrong face. You meant to use the :).

For the expansion with the most in depth raid content spanning all difficulty and raid sizes. Tradeskills have a purpose. All classes have a good role on raids and finally the oddball classes like Wizard and Ranger are top tier DPS with proper AAs/Gear. Groups all form up in a central hub to facilitate easy PuGing. A central city allows people to congregate and interact.

EQ at its best.

PoP was when I started falling out of love when the game because it made so much of it useless =(

I love the AA from luclin though.

[Daldaen]

Very little was made useless!

The home cities got traveled a little less, as they currently are today's with Thurgadin/Kael/Skyshrine.

Porters got nagged a little less for ports, but they certainly retained their value in many dungeon crawl groups with group ports and Evacs; a far better outcome... To be wanted in a group rather than to be wanted to port a more desirable class to a group you didn't get invited to.

With those small trade offs it made things like Tradeskills actually have value. Tell me how often you look for a Baker/Brewer on P99. During PoP however food/drink allows you to extend your stats by roughly one decent raid piece of gear. How often do you seek out a Fletcher? PoP EP bows were the best non-PoTime weaponry for a ranger. It allowed rangers to save up and buy themselves an enormous upgrade and it allowed Fletcher's and Tinkers to profit off their skill. How often do you seek out a Potter? PoP Ceramics offered a focus item for everything... buff extension, increased damage/healing, mana preservation, spell haste, range, DoT DMG. Not to mention the Soulstones/Faithstones that provided Clerics and Shamans an alternate porting method to their home cities.

Wizards, Druids and Rangers had their raid roles fleshed out with upgraded spells and AAs. Classes like Bard got a new raid role when the Fading Memories AA came in, but it was balanced enough to keep Monks in the primary pulling role. Clerics got Divine Arbitration which made the class much more entertaining to play after a long period of just casting 1 spell in a chain. Etc.

The Raid Window allowed raids to more easily set up groups, share experience and communicate amongst each other.

So much goodness from PoP.

[Ikon]

Not easy. But ya. I would like to get in the leashing for sure. Some of the takp mechanics are really nice.

Not sure how sneak and fd interact. But can check what was different on takp. I know invis should assist in clearing fd. Sneak. Not that i ever knew of. Stand, invis with pre-nerf, and if mob didnt see thru invis, ur golden. I think lines between sneak and invis mechanics are too blurred.

H
NM thought you were saying sneak did blur.

[Haynar]

I forget. Are there chat channels on p99?

[Salahdin]

Man Luclin era was the first xpac that gave so much to casuals; raiders and general input in the game.

1. Focus Items.
2. AAs
3. Tradeskills
4. Amazing Quests 1 group quests
5. SSRA Temple was a fucking blast

In all Luclin was a great linear xpac.

PoP wasnt too bad either but I had dipped outta eq around that time.

Also:

What alot of people didnt realize what happened during the Luclin era the top 1-2 guilds focused hard on ssra/vt which meant lotta the classic/kunark mobs got left alone meaning all the small/middle sized guild had a chance to gear up epics,haste items etc. I dont know about blue99 if this would happen coz people tend to be clinically insane on these emulator servers when it comes to raiding. But if they released Luclin on this server it would br hugr for the pop and growth of the game.

Iirc its approx 300aas to get in luclin era?

What was that neck bit from Runneye called? I think it got mana prev 2 put on it which gave like 15% mana prev on spells up till level 40. Some shitty 3 int 3 wis neck item became one of the most farmed items ever lol.

All those extended buff focus' etc really made for extra depth on characters. At the end of PoP iirc you could get cleric buffs for up to 3+hrs in PoK and kei for like 2.5 hrs which made leveling amazing in the game.

Classic era was great fun, but Luclin+PoP really developed the game.

Also inbefore raiding sucked....most people didnt raid back in the day. Like 10-15% of a server raided. Was a huge culture of casuals/farmers/questers and adventures. For alot of people raiding was what hardcores did.

[Haynar]

I don't think sneak while fd should memblur.

[Daldaen]

I forget. Are there chat channels on p99?

No there aren't. Was either a Luclin or PoP addition, I can't recall which :/.

Sneak shouldn't blur. Someone explained it in a monkey business post quoted just before this. It was used to determine if a blur occurred.

[Haynar]

No there aren't. Was either a Luclin or PoP addition, I can't recall which :/.

Sneak shouldn't blur. Someone explained it in a monkey business post quoted just before this. It was used to determine if a blur occurred.
Yes. It makes more sense. That memblur part of code is a holdover from eqemu. No clue why its there either. Always thought it was wrong.

[Ikon]

Yes. It makes more sense. That memblur part of code is a holdover from eqemu. No clue why its there either. Always thought it was wrong.
I suspect what happened was the equemu people just used the pre-32 level code. When you FD on pre-32 mobs of course they always forget so you always get a blur and can sneak straight away.

32+ mobs totally diff story obviously.

Heres the info from Monkly Business:

35th+ level mobs don't always clear your name on the taunt list when you FD. One way to double check if they are headed back after you (and you can not actually see them behind a wall or such) you can press the sneak button before you get up, when you get up, do a "c"on to see if they are indifferent. If they have their back toward you and had a sucessful FD blur, and they con indifferent, you know that guy fell for it!

Quote:
Autumn, what he said was sneak, then stand up from the feign and con the mob going back. If it's indiff, it memblurred. If it glares/scowls (assuming it's not an always scowls mob), it's time to hit the dirt.



I use this all the time. The sneak isn't memblurring you, the sneak is checking if you memblurred.



On lvl31- mobs (It's 32+ that don't always memblur, not 35), you can sneak and stand up as soon as they turn around to go back, saving you a little time.
Quote:
Think about it this way. Say you are pulling something through all the twists and turns of Guk and have to feign it. Well once it starts going back to its spawn point/wandering path it will get out of visual range. To test to see if it is memblurred if you stand and sneak, chances are you are behind the mob still, So if its memblurred, and you stand up sneaking it should con indifferent.



IF you stand up sneaking, and it scowls:



1) Its still aggro'd on you, and its coming back to beat the living snot out of you.



OR



2) Its facing you and has been blurred.



At least that is my take on the tactic.
Quote:
What this means for you is that when a mob has you on the hate list, they'll be scowls at your or threateningly, even while sneaking.



So when you FD and the mobs wander off, hit your sneak button. Then when you stand up con the mob, if it's indiff faction then you're not on his hate list. If it's scowls/threateningly then FD immediately, he'll still be running back.



In my experiences I've found that it works best after you FD, to FD 3 or 4 more times, whether or not you feel like hitting sneak during these is up to you, but re-sneak right before standing up. It seems to work best that way.
http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?8889-Skill-tips-Sneak

[fadetree]

PoP was the greatest expansion. I loved it. After that, not so much.

[maskedmelon]

I will admit, pop was fun. I only been super big on classic because I did not experience it as much as I'd have liked. The same goes for pop though and tbh, I didn't really experience much of Luclin at all. I feel there is still much classic for me to enjoy, but also wouldn't mind checking out some luclin or pop. That is why I am happy we have p99 reserved for classic and takp/p2002 for luclin/pop. Can have me classic in one hand a d luclin/pop in the other ^^

[Tankdan]

Luclin for P99 would make me so moist. I don't know how big of a task implementing AA's would be, but gee golly would that be fun.

Classic to me is Launch-->end of PoP. Pretty sure chat channels was Luclin.

[Nilstoniakrath]

Actually, while we are babbling about things that will never be on p99, if one stripped out the spires/books, and toned down the gear inflation, Luclin, PoP, even GoD, would be welcome additions, IMHO.

[maskedmelonpai]

Never played GoD, I stopped at PoP. I would mostly like to see Archery Mastery, Endless Quiver, Slay Undead and elemental bows and crafted arrows ^^

[Ikon]

Never played GoD, I stopped at PoP. I would mostly like to see Archery Mastery, Endless Quiver, Slay Undead and elemental bows and crafted arrows ^^
Same :)

[lonmoer]

We want luclin goddamnit! Also PoP!

[SantagarBrax]

We want luclin goddamnit! Also PoP!

Huzzah

[pasi]

Imo, the charm of Everquest was that they always put out a massive amount of "good enough" content in the form of expansions every 6-12 months.

Stick to any expansion for much longer than that and you start to wonder why you're spending all week collecting bear asses for a 10 hp upgrade.

If you were forced to stop on an expansion, I'd think PoP w/ LDoN (top content instanced!) would be the best expansion to stop on.

[Swish]

Imo, the charm of Everquest was that they always put out a massive amount of "good enough" content in the form of expansions every 6-12 months.

Stick to any expansion for much longer than that and you start to wonder why you're spending all week collecting bear asses for a 10 hp upgrade.

If you were forced to stop on an expansion, I'd think PoP w/ LDoN (top content instanced!) would be the best expansion to stop on.

I'd agree, LDON had potential they just needed to up the rewards which were mostly garbage... for that it seemed like LoY in terms of not being a full expansion

[Jimjam]

I really enjoyed LoY, it had that dark creepiness of original EQ. The art also avoided being muddy and overly detailed, which is a problem I have with many expansions.

LDoN was fun unlocking the story lines, Augs were a cool idea for filling out gaps in your equipment. It was interesting to see the alternative currency system implemented for the first time. I remember putting a bounce aug on my Truncheon of Doom, which would reflect spells attempted on me.

This brings me to a big hang up with modern EQ:

For every new expansion, they released a new interface for monitoring instances, a new currency, etc. I can only imagine how bloated that stuff is now with the GoD, Ldon, task, interfaces and however many additional currencies there now are! I feel they weren't very forward looking in how they implemented their innovations, meaning they had to be re-innovated from scratch with new expansions instead of just editing the first iteration of that innovation.

[Maciver]

I really enjoyed LoY, it had that dark creepiness of original EQ. The art also avoided being muddy and overly detailed, which is a problem I have with many expansions.

LDoN was fun unlocking the story lines, Augs were a cool idea for filling out gaps in your equipment. It was interesting to see the alternative currency system implemented for the first time. I remember putting a bounce aug on my Truncheon of Doom, which would reflect spells attempted on me.

This brings me to a big hang up with modern EQ:

For every new expansion, they released a new interface for monitoring instances, a new currency, etc. I can only imagine how bloated that stuff is now with the GoD, Ldon, task, interfaces and however many additional currencies there now are! I feel they weren't very forward looking in how they implemented their innovations, meaning they had to be re-innovated from scratch with new expansions instead of just editing the first iteration of that innovation.

Loy was awesome. For sure.

The UI isn't too bad these days - its all organized into different tabs and windows.

The bloated part is all the abilities. My monk has like 45 ability buttons, not even counting the hidden ones I got bound to keyboard.

[fadetree]

I hear y'all, just speaking for me : Stop after PoP. Sure, there was some good stuff that came after but it's really the point where the game started transforming into the overpowered, gear raining shitfest that it quickly became.

[gildor]

Try P2002? Using the titanium client now..raid scence isn't overbloating toxicity spewing from the bowels of a tapeworm infested camel..

Allows 3 boxing, but so does P99 honestly..and going to Lucling/PoP ...cats and giant snake aliens..F yeah

[Swish]

Try P2002?

Allows 3 boxing, but so does P99 honestly...

http://i.imgur.com/IhK7ZZv.gif

[Haynar]

Try P2002? Using the titanium client now..raid scence isn't overbloating toxicity spewing from the bowels of a tapeworm infested camel..

Allows 3 boxing, but so does P99 honestly..and going to Lucling/PoP ...cats and giant snake aliens..F yeah

Go away. You see me sending them to takp? No. So quit shilling p02. A better client means jack.

[Jimjam]

I hear y'all, just speaking for me : Stop after PoP. Sure, there was some good stuff that came after but it's really the point where the game started transforming into the overpowered, gear raining shitfest that it quickly became.

If raining overpowered gear is your stopping point, then lets stop before kunark. Or before planes. Or before dragon itemisation.

7/18 (with an ac proc that bypasses the by level worn AC caps) off a level 14. Puts to shame almost anything non dragon/plane pre kunark.

[Daldaen]

Imo, the charm of Everquest was that they always put out a massive amount of "good enough" content in the form of expansions every 6-12 months.

Stick to any expansion for much longer than that and you start to wonder why you're spending all week collecting bear asses for a 10 hp upgrade.

If you were forced to stop on an expansion, I'd think PoP w/ LDoN (top content instanced!) would be the best expansion to stop on.

Classic PoTime wasn't truly instanced though!

[EQBallzz]

Classic PoTime wasn't truly instanced though!

I don't remember the exact details but wasn't it some sort of lockout timer? I remember we had to work out a rotation with other guilds. IIRC it was like 7 day timer but because there were several guilds in PoTime we only had like 2 days to clear before the next guild's turn. Looking back it was pretty amazing how the guilds on Lanys worked out a reasonably equitable rotation when you compare to what happens here.

[Ivory]

I wouldn't mind if they skipped POP and everything and ONLY added this little expansion....

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/EQ:Lost_Dungeons_of_Norrath

The mini instanced dungeon challenges were actually pretty fun.

[Daldaen]

I don't remember the exact details but wasn't it some sort of lockout timer? I remember we had to work out a rotation with other guilds. IIRC it was like 7 day timer but because there were several guilds in PoTime we only had like 2 days to clear before the next guild's turn. Looking back it was pretty amazing how the guilds on Lanys worked out a reasonably equitable rotation when you compare to what happens here.

The events had varying respawn times. The Phase 1 trials were 12 hours and the Phase2/3 were something really weird like 5 days I think (maybe it was 7, but I think they were a little less) and the Phase 4/5 gods were 7 days.

So... the zone did limit you to 72 players in zone and would prevent a 73rd from zoning in. You could also bind in PoTime B at this point in time. Due to classic PoP raid window (which only allowed for 10 group leaders, I.e. Raids of 60 max) you could still have 12 people out of your raid in the zone with you. So different guilds could zone in but once you had 72 zoned in, anyone else was prevented from zoning in.

Al'Kabor, which had the alpha of alpha versions of PoTime would have Phase 2 trigger once you zoned into the 5th Phase 1 trial (rather than when you defeated it). Which would cause mobs to aggro through the time dial while you're still fighting Phase 1 which was fun. Also there was no walling of AEs, the gods only dropped 2 loots per, and Quarm had absolutely ridiculous AEs. Look up Quarm's 8 AEs on Lucy and then look at the history tab to see the changes made around July of 2003. The week following this update TR/Afterlife finally downed Quarm, for good reason. Some of the AEs were just ridiculous. My personal favorite was the 300' Range PBAE 18 second stun, unresistable with a 35 second recast time. (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=3777&source=Live) Lol...

[Ikon]

I hated PoP. The books and so on were crap but the main thing that caused me to quit was that PC characters became too godly. Sort of like WoW where you see a high level gold mob that's supposed to be hard but you can solo it. In EQ before PoP, a special mob, even a lower level one would usually wipe the floor with you pun intended after PoP not so much.

That's the spirit of games now, not very challenging, challenge is important otherwise why bother.

[Jimjam]

I hated PoP. The books and so on were crap but the main thing that caused me to quit was that PC characters became too godly. Sort of like WoW where you see a high level gold mob that's supposed to be hard but you can solo it. In EQ before PoP, a special mob, even a lower level one would usually wipe the floor with you pun intended after PoP not so much.

That's the spirit of games now, not very challenging, challenge is important otherwise why bother.

Kunark did the same to classic, didn't it?

[Daldaen]

I hated PoP. The books and so on were crap but the main thing that caused me to quit was that PC characters became too godly. Sort of like WoW where you see a high level gold mob that's supposed to be hard but you can solo it. In EQ before PoP, a special mob, even a lower level one would usually wipe the floor with you pun intended after PoP not so much.

That's the spirit of games now, not very challenging, challenge is important otherwise why bother.

Every expansion did this.

A 60 Shaman coming back to classic can solo almost everything other than a raid mob. Tranix, Fear Golems, Efreeti, Ghoul Lord. All are trivial with Turgurs and Torpor.

A 60 Monk with BiS Velious Raid gear can tank Tolapmuj and Sebilite Protector without slow and a crappy Druid healer no problem due to raid gear. A 60 Warrior with BiS gear can tank most Kunark dragons with only a single cleric healing them, and most can be done with 1-2 groups of Velious raid geared characters.

Etc.

Content is theoretically supposed to be challenging with era appropriate gear. Once you go back an era with newer gear, spells, levels and AAs it will inevitably be found to be much easier.

PoP was the expansion where you actually faced off with the Gods in their planes. Previously you had seen Innoruuk, Cazic Thule and Tunare. PoP let you face and defeat most of the rest. Of course characters became Godly. But to actually defeat some of those gods you needed a well balanced raid of 60-72 raiders.

[PL_Barton]

I personally would love to see AA's however with that you will obviously have to add additional raid content. When guilds kill dragons in <5 mins AA's would make it a 1-2 group thing.

I wasn't a big fan of Luclin, the whole moon thing turned me off, but when I look back, I didn't play it much before PoP came out. I never got to see very many of the zones and couldn't distinguish its content from PoP.

Getting to 60 doesn't really drive me because I know once I do, it is just a poop sock fest for gear. With AA's it would be different.

[EQBallzz]

The events had varying respawn times. The Phase 1 trials were 12 hours and the Phase2/3 were something really weird like 5 days I think (maybe it was 7, but I think they were a little less) and the Phase 4/5 gods were 7 days.

So... the zone did limit you to 72 players in zone and would prevent a 73rd from zoning in. You could also bind in PoTime B at this point in time. Due to classic PoP raid window (which only allowed for 10 group leaders, I.e. Raids of 60 max) you could still have 12 people out of your raid in the zone with you. So different guilds could zone in but once you had 72 zoned in, anyone else was prevented from zoning in.

Al'Kabor, which had the alpha of alpha versions of PoTime would have Phase 2 trigger once you zoned into the 5th Phase 1 trial (rather than when you defeated it). Which would cause mobs to aggro through the time dial while you're still fighting Phase 1 which was fun. Also there was no walling of AEs, the gods only dropped 2 loots per, and Quarm had absolutely ridiculous AEs. Look up Quarm's 8 AEs on Lucy and then look at the history tab to see the changes made around July of 2003. The week following this update TR/Afterlife finally downed Quarm, for good reason. Some of the AEs were just ridiculous. My personal favorite was the 300' Range PBAE 18 second stun, unresistable with a 35 second recast time. (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=3777&source=Live) Lol...

Yeah, that is sort of refreshing my memory. I guess it was that 72 man lockout thing that people worked out the rotation for. I think the gods were on a 7 day timer like you mentioned which is what the rotation was based on. Your guild basically had 2 days to clear everything before the next guild got their turn. It wasn't ideal for those that came later to PoTime (like us) because only getting 2 days initially to learn the encounters when others got the full week was a bit rough but we managed.

I do remember the phases getting jacked on us one time. There was some sort of spider that got stuck under the world and we couldn't hit it so we couldn't complete that phase and couldn't continue.

[Erati]

for some reason Ssra Temple only makes me think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxopViU98Xo&feature=youtu.be

weird...

[Uuruk]

for some reason Ssra Temple only makes me think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxopViU98Xo&feature=youtu.be

weird...

Erati, the titanic finally sank.

[fadetree]

If raining overpowered gear is your stopping point, then lets stop before kunark. Or before planes. Or before dragon itemisation.

7/18 (with an ac proc that bypasses the by level worn AC caps) off a level 14. Puts to shame almost anything non dragon/plane pre kunark.

Naw. Your definition is different than mine. I suspect it's a subjective thing!

[Erati]

Erati, the titanic finally sank.

hahaha - did you note the time?! id like to que it up

[pasi]

Yeah, that is sort of refreshing my memory. I guess it was that 72 man lockout thing that people worked out the rotation for. I think the gods were on a 7 day timer like you mentioned which is what the rotation was based on. Your guild basically had 2 days to clear everything before the next guild got their turn. It wasn't ideal for those that came later to PoTime (like us) because only getting 2 days initially to learn the encounters when others got the full week was a bit rough but we managed.

I do remember the phases getting jacked on us one time. There was some sort of spider that got stuck under the world and we couldn't hit it so we couldn't complete that phase and couldn't continue.

Yeah. as mentioned, it was quasi instanced. It would populate NPCs based on the furthest progression of raiders within the raid. This was tricky with varying respawns for phases when you had people jump ship to other guilds. I remember a time when after a normal phase 3, we would jump into phase 5 with a dead CT (where the guild of the players we recruited left off). This never seemed to be an issue with fully cleared PoTimes, but was definitely the case with partially cleared.

The zone also had time constraints (generally 1 additional hour per boss) where other guilds could not even zone in.

[Jimjam]

Naw. Your definition is different than mine. I suspect it's a subjective thing!

I'm not saying your wrong in your opinion, but I find it hard to understand it. Let me explain my perspective.

7/18 is objectively better than pre-dragon itemisation classic endgame. It might be the most extreme example I can think of, but it is not a total outlier. In Kunark level 19 trash giants drop a 10/35 hammer. Self-acquired drops like these vastly improve the power of characters under 20. It allows them to do content they couldn't previously and the effect only gets stronger as they level up e.g. weapons giving over 100hp and better than 1:2 ratios (over powered).

This is just the start though. Consider how plentiful drops such as Greenjade Broadsword are (11/25). This availability makes them cheap and easily affordable before level 5. Especially if that player is willing to XP on spiders, skeletons, bears etc ie what they would be killing anyway. ECmart helps rain this gear onto lower levels giving them 1handers which are probably better than the 2handers they would have without Kunark (gear raining).


Level a melee character in pre-dragon itemisation equipment and one with cheap Kunark junk. The difference is vast.

Perhaps your point of contention is it did not become a 'shitfest' until POP was played out? With our years of Kunark on p99 it has played out differently here. Thinking about it, top Kunark gear trivialises kunark in a way that I don't think top PoP gear trivialised PoP (and PoT gear was very powerful)!

Perhaps it wasn't PoP which was the only cause of the problem, but also the age of most the servers?

[fadetree]

Yeah, I get ya, I think, it's just I don't agree with you on what constitutes too much. Also, I don't think the concept of 'never allow anything to trivialize content' works for a game that has any kind of progressive expansions.

What really got me though was when defiant started dropping...I was like...wtf they aren't even trying anymore. I was ok with stuff through PoP, although I knew it had gotten inflated, but what came after was bad and then the defiant thing just was the last straw.

[Jimjam]

Fair enough.

I think we disagree on defiant too; I viewed it as an updated version of cloth/raw-hide/chain/bronze. People complained it made PoTime gear redundant, but I think the truth is it actually wasn't as good as ~10 year old raid gear at level 65.

Although I feel gearflation really started as soon as classic EQ was released, PoTime was powerful! I agree on that! It seemed ridiculous to me that you could bypass a decade of group content gear because you raided PoTime.

[maskedmelonpai]

The only way to combat gear inflation is with lateral progression. The simplest way to do this is to implement new statistics related to a specific content release that is needed for that release and possibly future releases, but has no effect really on past releases. Essentially your character does t really become much more powerful relative to old content, but you are actually able to do the new content. Ideally, underused old world locations would be updated with content releases to include new drops with stats for new content. Keep you pushing that button since none of it actually matters anyway :3

[lurk]

Vt handed out 125/125 gear with a million resists to all and simple to max FT. Following PoP progression you dont really see such upgrades over velious until EP or damn near there. My guild on live skipped luclin while our closest comptetior farmed VT. I never regretted our decision, we competed and out progressed them by a little...they never made it to time. I quit banging my head against uqua and the guild folded not long after..

Luclin serves no purpose other than to make sure easy loot is handed to poop sockers

[Jimjam]

The only way to combat gear inflation is with lateral progression. The simplest way to do this is to implement new statistics related to a specific content release that is needed for that release and possibly future releases, but has no effect really on past releases. Essentially your character does t really become much more powerful relative to old content, but you are actually able to do the new content. Ideally, underused old world locations would be updated with content releases to include new drops with stats for new content. Keep you pushing that button since none of it actually matters anyway :3

Well, you could have different expansions favour different stats (both in terms of what is needed to fight and what is given by equipment). Have a 'cold' expansion where cold resists and fire damage are favoured, a 'hot' expansion that favours cold damage.

Have an expansion where mobs have high AC so damage bonus/second is favoured, another with damage shields so powerful slow weapons are favoured.

Have another expansion where mobs proc huge -agi modifiers so tanks have to gear for agility to avoid the penalty.

Make items in the expansion mitigate the abilities of mobs in the expansion and you won't have to even add new stats for a while.

[pasi]

Vt handed out 125/125 gear with a million resists to all and simple to max FT. Following PoP progression you dont really see such upgrades over velious until EP or damn near there. My guild on live skipped luclin while our closest comptetior farmed VT. I never regretted our decision, we competed and out progressed them by a little...they never made it to time. I quit banging my head against uqua and the guild folded not long after..

Luclin serves no purpose other than to make sure easy loot is handed to poop sockers

There were 1 or 2 guilds where I'm from that skipped Luclin and went straight into PoP progression. I always thought it was dumb to do.

VT gear was comparable and often times better than Elemental Plane Gear due to AC/atk/focus/mods/etc vs the 10-20 HP difference. VT stuff generally had better focus effects than gear Pre-PoTime given the higher percentage and the fact that spells you used weren't always scaled down much.

The sheer number of items was the biggest difference though. Fire was a loot pinata, no doubt. However, it was also priority #1 on a reset for uber guilds (outside of blocking coirnav if a guild is 3/4). Although not to the samedegree of Fire, water was easy loot too. Other than those zones, PoP was pretty slow for gearing a guild.

PoE and PoA rings were so much effort for some shitty loot. Half of our guild would rather take the DKP hit than do air or earth rings. The pre-eplane stuff was even shittier effort vs reward. Shit like Saryrn and Bertox were several hours for 2-3 bad pieces. I like to think they kept it this way so people only wanted them for flags.

Anyhow, if you have tanks geared enough (or are willing to defer all loot to) it makes sense to rush straight to PoTime. My argument is that gearing through Ssra/VT is preferable to farming non-time PoP though.

Time of course, is a loot pinata, but that's only 1-2 days of the raid week.

[lurk]

We had no problems doing PoP in shit gear..though we were cockblocked on RZ and had to poopslck the triggers back in 2004? Even then we were often trained by the top guilds. We did RZ with 40-50. Impressively our VT comptetition did him with less than 40. And xegony with less than 30. Both our guilds always pulled kills with pretty low numbers, difference being low number coirnav and rathe aint happening, which put us ahead. The only advantage VT gives is more resists, EP gear is slightly suppior.

Honestly though mobs like bertox, mith marr even rydda dar were huge pains to do in shit gear. We still managed.

Fire was a shitshow between us. We often had 'fte' disputes. With our rivals going as far as BDAing our tank on reparm or highsunning arch magus. Good times though, id never give up those memories for an instance

[fadetree]

I think a partial cure for progression-itis and gearflation might be to remove the desire/ability to go back and wipe things out in earlier expansions. Stuff like trivial loot code and getting banished if you're too high, etc.

[fadetree]

Well, you could have different expansions favour different stats (both in terms of what is needed to fight and what is given by equipment). Have a 'cold' expansion where cold resists and fire damage are favoured, a 'hot' expansion that favours cold damage.

Have an expansion where mobs have high AC so damage bonus/second is favoured, another with damage shields so powerful slow weapons are favoured.

Have another expansion where mobs proc huge -agi modifiers so tanks have to gear for agility to avoid the penalty.

Make items in the expansion mitigate the abilities of mobs in the expansion and you won't have to even add new stats for a while.

They did try some of that, I think, but didn't make it count enough to really be noticeable.

[maskedmelonpai]

Well, you could have different expansions favour different stats (both in terms of what is needed to fight and what is given by equipment). Have a 'cold' expansion where cold resists and fire damage are favoured, a 'hot' expansion that favours cold damage.

Have an expansion where mobs have high AC so damage bonus/second is favoured, another with damage shields so powerful slow weapons are favoured.

Have another expansion where mobs proc huge -agi modifiers so tanks have to gear for agility to avoid the penalty.

Make items in the expansion mitigate the abilities of mobs in the expansion and you won't have to even add new stats for a while.

Yeppers ^^ the challenge though is that you wouldn't be able to introduce new gear with more stats without introducing inflation, so there wouldn't be much sense of progress/advancement. It may seem silly, but with new stats, your character can suddenly do more things (use this new set of armor to defeat zones a, b AND c!). Wihout them, your just switching the same gear around that youve always had, because if you increase the net available stats, you begin trivializing the base game. All depends on how important that is ^^ In the absence of new stats, you could rely more heavily on a cosmetic component, which players may appreciate though ^^

[Vibe]

You might be right about nexus - I may have confused this with the PoK stones.

I do like the interaction ppl have when buying and selling from each other instead of trading with a robot / auction house.

But I guess I could live with having these in - Hereby granted! I rule: You are allowed to have bazaar and Nexus too!

it forced people to pay your wanting price for items, thats what i liked about the bot trading while you were AFK, cause if they sent a tell and you didnt respond and your item was only on market ...if they wanted it bad enough they'd buy it before someone else came clicked on you and bought it haha :cool:

[gildor]

Go away. You see me sending them to takp? No. So quit shilling p02. A better client means jack.

Woah man, I don't know the history of takp and p02 etc...Tbh I don't play either right now lol :) was just a suggestion to OP since they asked for ssra and VT..No offense intended man