Custom content - how much is too much?

[Swish]

Obviously it's jumping the gun to expect custom content as soon as the final Velious patch comes out, but as time goes on people will be thinking about what might be added and how it'll shape the P99 experience.

I was doing some looking around and wanted to share a youtube video from the Hidden Forest, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVL-eQonUSA)who it seems have a tiered progression system. Worth a look below. Looks better than some of the live release vids for Underfoot and later expansions imo :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVL-eQonUSA (1.40)

The world there is also reshaped, so for example there you can zone in from South Ro to City of Mist. Would adding zones from later expansions within Norrath as we know it up to Velious be too far? Paludal Caverns off a zone wall in Feerott, a LDON ladder system, custom AAs, as some random examples...

http://i.imgur.com/p07YPz7.jpg

I was going to put a poll up but I don't think that's much of a gauge - comments below, what would you like to see (or not see)? ^^

[Ivory]

Cap level max at 39....and the game shall forever be exciting and challenging. Even 5 years later people will still be struggling to achieve a new piece of gear...instead of finding themselves so bored of stomping all content in the game that they begin to challenge each other to who can show off best by soloing raid content like dragons.

((And if you want, you could decrease exp gain to make up for the loss of levels)).

[Maciver]

Custom content in my mind is not creating the same problem as in live EQ.

Add new zones with velious level gear. Make more exciting, challenging, and intelligent content. Something that takes a lot more time and effort to figure out and beat. Avoid the mudflation. No thanks to more level / AA grinding.

Make the content the reason to keep playing, not the grind for more levels or loot. Sure there should be interesting items to obtain, but nothing that scales up past velious level gear.

Edit: Heres one idea thats easier than adding new zones and such. GM controlled events. One day a dragon shows up in fob flying around wreaking havoc, gm controlled, unique abilities etc. Until uberguild01 shows up to kill it. Perhaps a week later it or another mob is in another zone. If it was human controlled could be a much more unique challenge. Its obviously not gonna follow normal aggro rules. Anyway, just one idea.

[fadetree]

Make the content the reason to keep playing, not the grind for more levels or loot. Sure there should be interesting items to obtain, but nothing that scales up past velious level gear.

The trouble is, that is really, really hard to do. There are only so many ways you can add 'difficulty' to an open world MMORPG, and whatever form you pick will be hated by half of your target audience. Adding 'interest' is even harder, because that is even more subjective.

Anyway, I think that's what they tried to do in PoP, and I think they did a great job. That whole progression was super interesting and it was difficult in the time-sinky way that you have to go with in these games. They did add some pretty good raid fights, and were starting to get away from the old AOE vs. tank and spank mechanics that earlier raids were like.

For instance, your example had a PERSON running the 'interesting development' for a week. Good luck scaling that kind of thing up. Bring back player controlled monsters so the players 'create their own content'? That's fine, but too many are tards that just want to annoy people, and it's effectively a PvP server.

[Maciver]

The trouble is, that is really, really hard to do. There are only so many ways you can add 'difficulty' to an open world MMORPG, and whatever form you pick will be hated by half of your target audience. Adding 'interest' is even harder, because that is even more subjective.

Anyway, I think that's what they tried to do in PoP, and I think they did a great job. That whole progression was super interesting and it was difficult in the time-sinky way that you have to go with in these games. They did add some pretty good raid fights, and were starting to get away from the old AOE vs. tank and spank mechanics that earlier raids were like.

For instance, your example had a PERSON running the 'interesting development' for a week. Good luck scaling that kind of thing up. Bring back player controlled monsters so the players 'create their own content'? That's fine, but too many are tards that just want to annoy people, and it's effectively a PvP server.

The encounters in pop were fun, but the flagging system was shit. Go afk a couple of raid days and it sucked. Even with the few extra you could drag along. I'm all for time sync progression - I enjoyed farming emp keys and weapons in luclin with my guild mates.

Not player controlled, GM controlled, you wouldn't give players access to this, thats asking for trouble.

Edit: Adding complexity goes a long way in adding interesting, and difficulty. I'm sure people could come up with idea's all day in this regard.

[fadetree]

Yeah, it seems like that would be true, but it never seems to work out. PoP added a ton of complexity to the flagging system...and you hated it. It's not just 'complexity', it's complexity that you like, which is really hard to do.

[Zemus]

Re-use some of the zones and models and re-implement the mobs in the zone to be compatible with the trilogy world.

For example Velspar could be re-implemented. Also lots of room to add to PoM as the zone was very much unfinished in the p99 timeline. I'd like to see a bristlebane raid encounter in his throne room.

Would not want custom content to go over the top and lose the current feel of the game.

[Maciver]

True, you won't make everyone happy. I guess i had two main opinions here:

1) Scaling upward and creating more mudflation seems like a bad idea to me.
2) Adding level and AA grind just trivializes the content we already have. Sony just used it as the carrot to keep people paying. I'd rather the carrot be interesting things to do.

Why scale at all? Why not just more content of this caliber? Theres a reason people want to play in this era.

[Jorgam]

The problem I see with all of this is that as it is now, the top end guilds are still going back and killing crap like Nagafen and Vox. This is insane!

Until there is someway to keep them away from even the most basic of raid targets that are so far under their ability, nothing will change. I don't believe adding more content that is tailored to them will do anything to stop them from going back to killing every lower mob they can find once they are done with the new uber stuff that week, none but themselves can even see/kill.

[Xzavie]

The problem I see with all of this is that as it is now, the top end guilds are still going back and killing crap like Nagafen and Vox. This is insane!

Until there is someway to keep them away from even the most basic of raid targets that are so far under their ability, nothing will change. I don't believe adding more content that is tailored to them will do anything to stop them from going back to killing every lower mob they can find once they are done with the new uber stuff that week, none but themselves can even see/kill.


This server is a case study on why raid instancing was created.

[Muggens]

No point in more zones, so many dungeons on the untrodden path of P99. Adventurers hardly set foot in Dalnir, Kaesora, Nurga, Droga, Runnyeye, Hole, Warrens, Permafrost, CazicThule, Paw, Najena, Befallen...toons are hardly even down in LGuk...
Now we have Stonebrunt as well.

Could see one more high level zone being added tho, but we all go to Seb anyway?

[fastboy21]

No point in more zones, so many dungeons on the untrodden path of P99. Adventurers hardly set foot in Dalnir, Kaesora, Nurga, Droga, Runnyeye, Hole, Warrens, Permafrost, CazicThule, Paw, Najena, Befallen...toons are hardly even down in LGuk...
Now we have Stonebrunt as well.

Could see one more high level zone being added tho, but we all go to Seb anyway?

Thats true. But there are options here as well. They could do temporary events where some zones opened or had special quests/items that dropped for a limited time. They could add ZEMs (like hotzones) for certain zones. Add some kind of GM event or player competition, etc.

This would drive players to new zones and entice them to get off the "golden path" of typical exp zones.

As ridiculous as this would have sounded to me a few years ago, at this point in the server I think there is a larger benefit than cost to doing stuff like this (even though unclassic). I mean, if we can turn on a 25% exp bonus for the holidays why not turn on a 25% bonus exp for some of the off the path dungeons for a week or two at a time.

As this server has aged I've become more and more convinced that the secret to fun long term (years forward, not months) on a static "classic" server isn't just to fix the end-game for the raiders (that stuff would help), but the big impact would be to develop the existing game to encourage players to play in group and solo content in the existing game for more than just PUG exp groups.

[Ivory]

great idea

never post again

Do not be scared of the challenge.

If guilds could figure out how to kill stuff that hits for 1150 per hit / 6 hits per round....then they could figure out how to survive a level 39 cap and still take down dragons / get epics / clear planes.

The thing is they would be walking into an entirely different game than they are used to and everything from gearing to getting plat would be much more difficult.

It's the only way to really balance out the huge amount of knowledge we have that trivializes the game currently.

[Zekayy]

They Could add Plane Of Underfoot that they added in later expansions inside the hole theres that door that leads no where thats what it leads too. Or They could add Veksars Peek it was under the lake of ill omen. It was added in luclin the night it launched. They had a cool dragon there.

[Zekayy]

But adding too much customn content is never a good thing it will go from a good server to completely shit

[RDawg816]

The problem I see with all of this is that as it is now, the top end guilds are still going back and killing crap like Nagafen and Vox. This is insane!
I agree that the lower guilds should have access to this type of content. The problem is, it's not easy to do. There is nothing stopping people from doing this. Even if you said if you're raiding in Kunark and/or Velious you aren't allowed to kill raid mobs in the old world....A/A and other guilds would just have their 52 alt-army in an "unaffiliated" guild to create a loophole. Greedy people will be greedy. Jerks will be jerks. That's just how life is, unfortunately.

[lonmoer]

Why release custom content when there's a decade of expansions left?

[StarLord]

This server is a case study on why raid instancing was created.

Bingo

[fastboy21]

I'd like a set of quests slightly under epic difficulty that allows you to change character's religion.

I was always kind of surprised that the original dev team never put a quest like this into the game.

On live today, you can actually change your religion by buying a potion in the cash store. Costs like $20 iirc.

[Jorgam]

I know it seems insane - but the fact is that killing Naggy and Vox is still fun. In fact, it's even more fun when it's just a team of you and your friend's elite 52 dragonslayers who are more decked out than most casual 60s.

It really would be great if we started creating either instanced content of lower end raid mobs so that younger raid guilds could progress and get more recruits without immediately being stomped to shit by the topheavy guilds OR if the top guilds would open up these windows to other raiders and work as a community.

(the latter won't happen)

I'm not saying that it isn't fun for them or others who do these things, just that creating new custom content that is intended for use by the best of the best will have no effect on freeing up existing content. Any server pop/earthquake proves exactly what will happen if more raid targets are added.

[LittleSorcerer7]

AA's love hen so much

[Zekayy]

Rogean Ripped out the code AAs

[Dreenk317]

No point in more zones, so many dungeons on the untrodden path of P99. Adventurers hardly set foot in Dalnir, Kaesora, Nurga, Droga, Runnyeye, Hole, Warrens, Permafrost, CazicThule, Paw, Najena, Befallen...toons are hardly even down in LGuk...
Now we have Stonebrunt as well.

Could see one more high level zone being added tho, but we all go to Seb anyway?

I remember on shards of dalaya, they somehow coded mobs to have individual exp bonuses. These bonuses increased from 0% to 25% iirc. And it increased by 1% for every 15 minutes the mob had been spawned. Therefore it was more profitable, exp wise, to hunt in the less popular zones. And even rotate a couple dungeons near portal rings, that you could travel to quickly. As changing zones allowed more exp than sitting at one camp all day.

I thought it was really good idea personally.

[Cave Troll]

shards was an amazing project

unfortunately it was plagued by the second worst project managment team in the emulated game industry

can you guess the first?

[MammothMafia]

I'm not saying that it isn't fun for them or others who do these things, just that creating new custom content that is intended for use by the best of the best will have no effect on freeing up existing content. Any server pop/earthquake proves exactly what will happen if more raid targets are added.

How many years and people have been trying to figure this out? The solution is simple. Create content that actually takes time to raid.
Currently not a single encounter takes these top guilds longer than 10-20 minutes to down so of course they can down 10 targets in an evening sitting. Create a raid that actually takes 4 hours to consume, make 2 or 3 of them. Boom now all of the sudden the top guilds are busy for the next 4 hours. The smaller guilds would actually be able to try some of the classic content. They can wipe, try again, call in another guild to help, ect. Everyone enjoying content. Problem solved.

[fadetree]

How many years and people have been trying to figure this out? The solution is simple. Create content that actually takes time to raid.
Currently not a single encounter takes these top guilds longer than 10-20 minutes to down so of course they can down 10 targets in an evening sitting. Create a raid that actually takes 4 hours to consume, make 2 or 3 of them. Boom now all of the sudden the top guilds are busy for the next 4 hours. The smaller guilds would actually be able to try some of the classic content. They can wipe, try again, call in another guild to help, ect. Everyone enjoying content. Problem solved.

Nope. People get mad that you're just adding insane difficulty and random timesinks, and then they solve it anyway, and then you're back to where you started. Adding real, engaging 'difficulty' that lasts is hard as hell, and may actually be impossible.

[Ivory]

How many years and people have been trying to figure this out? The solution is simple. Create content that actually takes time to raid.
Currently not a single encounter takes these top guilds longer than 10-20 minutes to down so of course they can down 10 targets in an evening sitting. Create a raid that actually takes 4 hours to consume, make 2 or 3 of them. Boom now all of the sudden the top guilds are busy for the next 4 hours. The smaller guilds would actually be able to try some of the classic content. They can wipe, try again, call in another guild to help, ect. Everyone enjoying content. Problem solved.

Instead of trying to re-create entire games worth of content that actually provides challenges...

The real solution is far more simple. Just lower the level cap to 39 and ALL the end game content gets a HUGE boost in difficulty.

Players would need to invent entire new strategies to take on "rinse and repeat" raid mobs. Without adding anything new, suddenly everything would seem like new again through the eyes of a top raiding guild of level 39ers.

[Xzavie]

The solution is simple. Its already been laid out and tested in this game and others. Its called instanced raiding. You all are trying to re-invent the wheel.

[Swish]

The solution is simple. Its already been laid out and tested in this game and others. Its called instanced raiding. You all are trying to re-invent the wheel.

I hope that never happens here, above all else. The spirit of EQ when it was made wasn't to disappear into 20 different instances of the same zone. I'd like to have a community here unlike other MMOs/TLP servers.

For me, that's going too far... but I understand why blue players would like their own space in what's quite an overcrowded top end server.

[PL_Barton]

1. Add random monthly ZEMs to unused zones to diversify leveling.
2. Add raid chat ffs.
3. Add any zone from later expansions that fit into the existing continents (aside from instanced zones)...I'm looking at the fake wall in Oasis, and the zone of Surefall Glades(sp)
4. Shake up the loot in all unused zones making it worthwhile to go there.
5. Active some of the oldschool druid/wizard spires making the spells quest only.

Plane of the Underfoot would be pretty epic. The Hole is one of my favorite zones in the game and it sucks royally that no one likes to level there due to the difficulty in breaking in/getting out.

[Xzavie]

I hope that never happens here, above all else. The spirit of EQ when it was made wasn't to disappear into 20 different instances of the same zone. I'd like to have a community here unlike other MMOs/TLP servers.

For me, that's going too far... but I understand why blue players would like their own space in what's quite an overcrowded top end server.

You could do it several ways. You could do the anyone can instance a raid zone once a week like phinny. You could also nerf it. One instance of any raid zone per toon / month. The spirit of original EQ has been long lost on this server BTW. what other alternatives have been offered that fit the original spirit of EQ?

[PL_Barton]

Coldain Dwarf graphic would be pretty epic also.

[fadetree]

this is the thread that never ends
it just goes round and round again
Some people started posting it, not knowing what it was,
and they'll keep on posting it forever just because


1. let's reset the server!
2. No! why?
3. There's too many high levels and they are locking down content/too many items and plat/the economy is 'bad'
4. Make some simple mechanics changes to fix that!
5. Long arguments about: various raid mechanics changes/super complicated raid rotation rules/artificial plat sinks/GO ELSEWHERE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT/start your own server/not classic/add GOOD content/add luclin and or PoP/bark bark yap BBBBAAAARRRKKKK!!!!!
6. Realization that none of that will ever happen on p1999.
7. *crickets*
8. go to #1 in a new thread!

[Muggens]

They could add ZEMs (like hotzones) for certain zones.

This would drive players to new zones and entice them to get off the "golden path" of typical exp zones.


I remember on shards of dalaya, they somehow coded mobs to have individual exp bonuses. These bonuses increased from 0% to 25% iirc. And it increased by 1% for every 15 minutes the mob had been spawned.

Hot zones and exp grow isnt such bad ideas, I like it for p99.

[Ikon]

True, you won't make everyone happy. I guess i had two main opinions here:

1) Scaling upward and creating more mudflation seems like a bad idea to me.
2) Adding level and AA grind just trivializes the content we already have. Sony just used it as the carrot to keep people paying. I'd rather the carrot be interesting things to do.

Why scale at all? Why not just more content of this caliber? Theres a reason people want to play in this era.
AA's in Luclin didn't trivial content any more than levels did. AA's were an option that was used to reduce trivializing content by adding extra levels and it gave people another option other than farming greens / running the same dungeons over and over.

Any thing custom is too much

Not classic
There are so many signifcant non-classic things on this server does classic really matter? Probably not anymore. Pulling mobs to zoneline in Kunark Velious because of lack of lazy aggro, binding in dungeons, monk FD - > Sneak... just some of them that completely change gameplay.

[Swish]

1. Add random monthly ZEMs to unused zones to diversify leveling.
2. Add raid chat ffs.
3. Add any zone from later expansions that fit into the existing continents (aside from instanced zones)...I'm looking at the fake wall in Oasis, and the zone of Surefall Glades(sp)
4. Shake up the loot in all unused zones making it worthwhile to go there.
5. Active some of the oldschool druid/wizard spires making the spells quest only.

Plane of the Underfoot would be pretty epic. The Hole is one of my favorite zones in the game and it sucks royally that no one likes to level there due to the difficulty in breaking in/getting out.

I like all of those things. I think something replicating the difficulty of HS but ramping up the difficulty another couple of notches with decent item possibilities would be great for those looking for a real challenge.

A lot of the custom content, particularly zones off old world zones would be great - the focus should be on making players want to feel challenged and inspired by new items and what it takes to get to them at a group/raid level.

What about weekly/monthly awards for a group that can clear a LDON style dungeon the fastest? The rewards during that expansion on live always seemed shitty

[Maciver]

AA's in Luclin didn't trivial content any more than levels did. AA's were an option that was used to reduce trivializing content by adding extra levels and it gave people another option other than farming greens / running the same dungeons over and over.


There are so many significant non-classic things on this server does classic really matter? Probably not anymore. Pulling mobs to zone line in Kunark Velious because of lack of lazy aggro, binding in dungeons, monk FD - > Sneak... just some of them that completely change game play.

The content gave people another option with or without AA.

Won't happen here anyway, so I guess it's not worth arguing about. There is like 20k AA on live now if you want lol.

[Ikon]

The content gave people another option with or without AA.

Won't happen here anyway, so I guess it's not worth arguing about. There is like 20k AA on live now if you want lol.
AA's gave people something to do, moreso than the content which is quickly completed, which is why within 3 months or less of an expansion new content was done and a new expansion was in the works.

I don't think you can accurately say AA's "wont happen" here. Maybe / maybe not.

[NorseGod]

Every emulator has a timeline. It either gets reset, or they keep going till PoP.

[Baler]

:eek:
http://i.imgur.com/1gBWIug.gif
I played on shards years ago

[nectarprime]

I remember forever ago on the test server there was an option to spawn as a low level mob, and you could run around and attack players - and also gain levels. People would shit their pants when a desert madman was level 15 running around Sro (i think it was) destroying everyone. Do something like that pls

[Jimjam]

Project M that was!

[Maciver]

AA's gave people something to do, moreso than the content which is quickly completed, which is why within 3 months or less of an expansion new content was done and a new expansion was in the works.

I don't think you can accurately say AA's "wont happen" here. Maybe / maybe not.


Perhaps it was done, but you were not done gearing all your players in that amount of time. People were still needing stuff from aow, tunare, ntov, and other places when luclin released. Same with luclin and pop.

If they did release AA, at least you would have time to complete it. I couldn't ever keep up on live, they were pumping shit down our throats so fast. I gave up after pop. lol

We can agree to disagree ya?? I thought AA's were a shit addition. I was 60 damn it! i was done fucking grinding, I could just hang out and raid and help who needed it. Whats this? AA? Noooooooo! They changed my beloved models and gave me more xp to grind I was so angry! Aside from that i really enjoyed the content.

Edit: I would be fine even today with EQ if they stopped using levels as a carrot to chase. Just leave it alone and release new xpacs. The benefit of being max level is, you can just enjoy the content and dont have enourmos amounts of xp grinding facing you down. I was a working adult then and I am still a working adult today. I cursed EQ for a lot of years cause of the xp carrot and the try hard graphical up dates.

[StealthAF]

Perhaps it was done, but you were not done gearing all your players in that amount of time. People were still needing stuff from aow, tunare, ntov, and other places when luclin released. Same with luclin and pop.

If they did release AA, at least you would have time to complete it. I couldn't ever keep up on live, they were pumping shit down our throats so fast. I gave up after pop. lol

We can agree to disagree ya?? I thought AA's were a shit addition. I was 60 damn it! i was done fucking grinding, I could just hang out and raid and help who needed it. Whats this? AA? Noooooooo! They changed my beloved models and gave me more xp to grind I was so angry! Aside from that i really enjoyed the content.

Edit: I would be fine even today with EQ if they stopped using levels as a carrot to chase. Just leave it alone and release new xpacs. The benefit of being max level is, you can just enjoy the content and dont have enourmos amounts of xp grinding facing you down. I was a working adult then and I am still a working adult today. I cursed EQ for a lot of years cause of the xp carrot and the try hard graphical up dates.

Agreed. While a small part of the population were excited about the new expansions, many such as I seemed to dread it. For anyone other than straight-up basement dwellers (hell, even I was too in my youth), it was nearly impossible to keep up with the content. And just when you started to catch up a little, another expansion, and another, and another. More Levels, more AA's, more constant grinding.

While I would not oppose custom content in the future, it needs to be kept at the same levels. No higher level caps, and no AA's. I do like the idea of other added things too such as raidchat, a working LFG engine, and hell, throw in the soulbinders! Is it Classic? No...but are definitely useful little tools that weren't game-breaking by any means.

[Maciver]

Yep. They added a lot of interesting content. It was always enjoyable. Too bad it was always saddled with some lame xp grind. You got to the end of the content, good for you! Wait and relax. Help others. Enjoy your time at the top.

[zati]

How about if they revisit the design on food/water mechanics in this game?

What if having no food on your character didn't just prevent u from jumping - but also lose hp, and eventually character death* OR capped @25%hp /cannot be healed? You could make food so scarce in Raid areas /Dungeons (making mages more useful..indirectly) You eventually HAVE to leave (forfeit camp) to restock.

One of the biggest flaws in game in a classic game like this is groups over taking an area for an extended period of time. Why ? Not because there's no way to stop them it's cause the game Allows it. Instead of coming up wit instances and splitting servers etc. why not implement something that requires strategy and planning aka more variables?

For example:
Conditions :
You aren't allowed to summon food in raid zones *except mages/clerics* *foraging becomes more useful*
No food/drink vendors within atleast 25-30 minutes of Sow speed travel distance around common raid zones/
Every "You are hungry" causes -dmg scaled according to level maybe -350 at lvl 60?
Food and water "Spoil" after dying (Can't corpse food/water)

With those few conditions in place id imagine ALOT would change and effect players from all levels... biggest thing id see is

1. Camps will be forfeited after death
-Cleric summon food/water becomes viable(because after death Food/water is Deleted)

2. Poop socking a spawn/camp
- Players have a limited time because of in-game time constraints
ex: Lv 60 farming Ancient Cyclops(lol) etc. Brings only 2 stacks of food/water. He'll eventually need to go back to town and restock or pay someone to deliver him/her food. Inadvertently opens camp to next person in line- or can be given the farmer his share of food/split loots etc.
-Corpsing excess loot will be tedious

3. Dial-a-food / Stable economy
-A market would open up for players that would require food delivery to higher lvl toons
- Better economic opportunity for low level players
- Plats get deleted from buying food/water

IDK guys there's a ton of things that could be changed but instances/more servers cannot be the solution to every problem when it comes to overpopulation. I came back to play EQ because it was hard unlike other mmos that are out now.. so why not make it.. HARDER? haha

[Maciver]

How about if they revisit the design on food/water mechanics in this game?

What if having no food on your character didn't just prevent u from jumping - but also lose hp, and eventually character death* OR capped @25%hp /cannot be healed? You could make food so scarce in Raid areas /Dungeons (making mages more useful..indirectly) You eventually HAVE to leave (forfeit camp) to restock.

One of the biggest flaws in game in a classic game like this is groups over taking an area for an extended period of time. Why ? Not because there's no way to stop them it's cause the game Allows it. Instead of coming up wit instances and splitting servers etc. why not implement something that requires strategy and planning aka more variables?

For example:
Conditions :
You aren't allowed to summon food in raid zones *except mages/clerics*
No food/drink vendors within atleast 25-30 minutes of Sow speed travel distance around common raid zones/
Every "You are hungry" causes -dmg scaled according to level maybe -350 at lvl 60?
Food and water "Spoil" after dying (Can't corpse food/water)

With those few conditions in place id imagine ALOT would change and effect players from all levels... biggest thing id see is

1. Camps will be forfeited after death
-Cleric summon food/water becomes viable(because after death Food/water is Deleted)

2. Poop socking a spawn/camp
- Players have a limited time because of in-game time constraints

3. Dial-a-food / Stable economy
-A market would open up for players that would require food delivery to higher lvl toons
- Better economic opportunity for low level players
- Plats get deleted from buying food/water

IDK guys there's a ton of things that could be changed but instances/more servers cannot be the solution to every problem when it comes to overpopulation. I came back to play EQ because it was hard unlike other mmos that are out now.. so why not make it.. HARDER? haha

<Dominos> is now recruiting PST

[zati]

<Dominos> is now recruiting PST

lmfao, that'd be so great. 10% tip for every stack of breadloaf ^^. rags to riches!

[maskedmelon]

How about if they revisit the design on food/water mechanics in this game?

What if having no food on your character didn't just prevent u from jumping - but also lose hp, and eventually character death* OR capped @25%hp /cannot be healed? You could make food so scarce in Raid areas /Dungeons (making mages more useful..indirectly) You eventually HAVE to leave (forfeit camp) to restock.

One of the biggest flaws in game in a classic game like this is groups over taking an area for an extended period of time. Why ? Not because there's no way to stop them it's cause the game Allows it. Instead of coming up wit instances and splitting servers etc. why not implement something that requires strategy and planning aka more variables?

For example:
Conditions :
You aren't allowed to summon food in raid zones *except mages/clerics* *foraging becomes more useful*
No food/drink vendors within atleast 25-30 minutes of Sow speed travel distance around common raid zones/
Every "You are hungry" causes -dmg scaled according to level maybe -350 at lvl 60?
Food and water "Spoil" after dying (Can't corpse food/water)

With those few conditions in place id imagine ALOT would change and effect players from all levels... biggest thing id see is

1. Camps will be forfeited after death
-Cleric summon food/water becomes viable(because after death Food/water is Deleted)

2. Poop socking a spawn/camp
- Players have a limited time because of in-game time constraints
ex: Lv 60 farming Ancient Cyclops(lol) etc. Brings only 2 stacks of food/water. He'll eventually need to go back to town and restock or pay someone to deliver him/her food. Inadvertently opens camp to next person in line- or can be given the farmer his share of food/split loots etc.
-Corpsing excess loot will be tedious

3. Dial-a-food / Stable economy
-A market would open up for players that would require food delivery to higher lvl toons
- Better economic opportunity for low level players
- Plats get deleted from buying food/water

IDK guys there's a ton of things that could be changed but instances/more servers cannot be the solution to every problem when it comes to overpopulation. I came back to play EQ because it was hard unlike other mmos that are out now.. so why not make it.. HARDER? haha

This is a very good post. I'd like to see the 8 fucking backpacks mechanic go away alongside this. How do characters carry 8 backpacks around? Honestly?

[Maciver]

This is a very good post. I'd like to see the 8 fucking backpacks mechanic go away alongside this. How do characters carry 8 backpacks around? Honestly?

Play a monk, you get one until much later in game. Untwinked ofc.

[Jimjam]

This is a very good post. I'd like to see the 8 fucking backpacks mechanic go away alongside this. How do characters carry 8 backpacks around? Honestly?

cut down bag slots in inventory. Instead make wrist pouches, belt pouches, backpacks, etc equipable to wrist, waist, back, etc slots.


Create a real decision of whether to put armour in a slot or a bag to carry things!

[maskedmelon]

Play a monk, you get one until much later in game. Untwinked ofc.

I've done this ^^ THRICE! （＾∇＾）

cut down bag slots in inventory. Instead make wrist pouches, belt pouches, backpacks, etc equipable to wrist, waist, back, etc slots.


Create a real decision of whether to put armour in a slot or a bag to carry things!

I LIKE TIHS VERY MACHO! :3 Add penalties to oversized bags too! Makes pants and shirts and cloaks and things all with pockets! Make them magical too, so you can stuff all sorts of oversized things in there. Magic is believable, 8 backpacks is not.

[Ikon]

How about if they revisit the design on food/water mechanics in this game?

What if having no food on your character didn't just prevent u from jumping - but also lose hp, and eventually character death* OR capped @25%hp /cannot be healed? You could make food so scarce in Raid areas /Dungeons (making mages more useful..indirectly) You eventually HAVE to leave (forfeit camp) to restock.

One of the biggest flaws in game in a classic game like this is groups over taking an area for an extended period of time. Why ? Not because there's no way to stop them it's cause the game Allows it. Instead of coming up wit instances and splitting servers etc. why not implement something that requires strategy and planning aka more variables?

For example:
Conditions :
You aren't allowed to summon food in raid zones *except mages/clerics* *foraging becomes more useful*
No food/drink vendors within atleast 25-30 minutes of Sow speed travel distance around common raid zones/
Every "You are hungry" causes -dmg scaled according to level maybe -350 at lvl 60?
Food and water "Spoil" after dying (Can't corpse food/water)

With those few conditions in place id imagine ALOT would change and effect players from all levels... biggest thing id see is

1. Camps will be forfeited after death
-Cleric summon food/water becomes viable(because after death Food/water is Deleted)

2. Poop socking a spawn/camp
- Players have a limited time because of in-game time constraints
ex: Lv 60 farming Ancient Cyclops(lol) etc. Brings only 2 stacks of food/water. He'll eventually need to go back to town and restock or pay someone to deliver him/her food. Inadvertently opens camp to next person in line- or can be given the farmer his share of food/split loots etc.
-Corpsing excess loot will be tedious

3. Dial-a-food / Stable economy
-A market would open up for players that would require food delivery to higher lvl toons
- Better economic opportunity for low level players
- Plats get deleted from buying food/water

IDK guys there's a ton of things that could be changed but instances/more servers cannot be the solution to every problem when it comes to overpopulation. I came back to play EQ because it was hard unlike other mmos that are out now.. so why not make it.. HARDER? haha
Camps are forfeited after death. If you're waiting for a camp and the person dies you have every right to take it.

Simply enforcing PnP policy would make more sense then food / water limitations. You'd just have a bunch of mages camping everything otherwise :) If someones at a camp and they get the mob (say AC) the next person on the list is up. Lists are classic afterall.

[zati]

Camps are forfeited after death. If you're waiting for a camp and the person dies you have every right to take it.

Simply enforcing PnP policy would make more sense then food / water limitations. You'd just have a bunch of mages camping everything otherwise :) If someones at a camp and they get the mob (say AC) the next person on the list is up. Lists are classic afterall.



I wasn't so specific about that... of course if someone dies that implies it is your camp. 100% agree wit you. But for instance lets change the scenario.

Lets visit Sebilis for example. King is always camped. How do we cycle out a group of 6 people that's been there for lets say... 6+hrs during prime-time. No lawyer questing No training etc. just pure player skill vs game. That's where food/mechanics come into play.

-You'll eventually need to surrender the camp due to being out of food/water or have a mage with you(when was the last time u invited one? they needs money for epics too)

-If just one player dies while clearing or fighting you'll have to give him/her extra food/water OR waste valuable time summoning it(higher chance to wipe vs respawn-timer). Lowers the amount of 'total time' your group can sit in that area.



And even if you put a vendor right outside of Seb someone will have to run out and get it. Putting the group at risk of wiping even more. Maybe a 7th out of player (rogue) could deliver food/water to a group at a chance to roll for loots,outside of group get paid in gems. /Shrug...It'd be interesting to see how it would play in PoH or PoF?

lol I dunno.. about the Mages camping everything.. what if you increased MP cost for summon food/water and have a recast timer? It probably isn't suppose to sustain you forever, but as only a last resort... to get you back to town safely and buy real ones

[Ikon]

I wasn't so specific about that... of course if someone dies that implies it is your camp. 100% agree wit you. But for instance lets change the scenario.

Lets visit Sebilis for example. King is always camped. How do we cycle out a group of 6 people that's been there for lets say... 6+hrs during prime-time. No lawyer questing No training etc. just pure player skill vs game. That's where food/mechanics come into play.

-You'll eventually need to surrender the camp due to being out of food/water or have a mage with you(when was the last time u invited one? they needs money for epics too)

-If just one player dies while clearing or fighting you'll have to give him/her extra food/water OR waste valuable time summoning it(higher chance to wipe vs respawn-timer). Lowers the amount of 'total time' your group can sit in that area.



And even if you put a vendor right outside of Seb someone will have to run out and get it. Putting the group at risk of wiping even more. Maybe a 7th out of player (rogue) could deliver food/water to a group at a chance to roll for loots,outside of group get paid in gems. /Shrug...It'd be interesting to see how it would play in PoH or PoF?

lol I dunno.. about the Mages camping everything.. what if you increased MP cost for summon food/water and have a recast timer? It probably isn't suppose to sustain you forever, but as only a last resort... to get you back to town safely and buy real ones
I get what you mean but the camps are so "valuable" they'll always work around it. Rangers / Druids can forage. Mages can summon food, they can also CotH. If you made it so quick that you couldn't stay out more than a few hours it''d inconvenience everyone. After playing EvE for 13 years one thing that's certain is if theres some "valuable" thing players will go to great lengths to overcome a nerf.

In terms of rotations and lists the way they worked on live was you turn up to the camp, you get put on the list, if there are 6 people in front of you you're number 7. For any lore camp the person can't corpse without losing their spot so they either have to leave or they go to the end of the list.

Of course there are some people that might trade to an alt / friend or whatever so that's a way around that but then again a simple solution to that is a /say wide message that says X has looted a [insert item name here].

[zati]

I get what you mean but the camps are so "valuable" they'll always work around it.
Always. for sure, but has it ever been implemented and tested? Im sure a few weeks you'd find out how to stop loopholes

Rangers / Druids can forage. Mages can summon food, they can also CotH.
Makes them more valuable to a group. Right now Enc and shm are the strongest class during velious.. why would you ever invite other classes if they offer little value to the group? *cough* wizards *cough.

If you made it so quick that you couldn't stay out more than a few hours it''d inconvenience everyone. After playing EvE for 13 years one thing that's certain is if theres some "valuable" thing players will go to great lengths to overcome a nerf.

It isn't meant to punish players by inconveniencing if they plan accordingly. It's to prevent that "one" guy or "one"group monopolizing camps and punish bad players. Suppose they make a fresh server. We'll use Evil eye camp in Gukbottom for manastones as an example. They aren't lore, it can be solo'd by a necro/enc/sham at low levels. Nothing stops them from staying X amount of hours or even days .Relying on "lists" and "trusting" they'll leave once they get their stone is begging for a 20 page drama-thread.

In terms of rotations and lists the way they worked on live was you turn up to the camp, you get put on the list, if there are 6 people in front of you you're number 7. For any lore camp the person can't corpse without losing their spot so they either have to leave or they go to the end of the list.

Of course there are some people that might trade to an alt / friend or whatever so that's a way around that but then again a simple solution to that is a /say wide message that says X has looted a [insert item name here].

Still can have lists and PnP.. it doesn't stop you from doing so.. I was just trying to add in some depth and element into the game than implementing Instancing in an "open world" or creating a fresh new server.

[Bones]

I for one welcome custom content and it sounds like a lot of fun. What I had in mind was adding more substance to already existing content without changing the dynamic and feel of classic too much. Example = more quests. For a game called everquest there is a distinct lack of quests in the old world and I feel like there is a literal fuckton of room for more quests and content and items to be added to existing zones and npcs. One of the many things I liked about vanilla WoW was exactly this; dozens of quests in each zone.
I also love the idea of adding custom zones in like the ones that you see on old world maps that were never implemented into classic.
It would also be cool to see pvp style battlegrounds (much like existed in WoW) later in the timeline. I know at one point years ago the staff was actually working on something like this but it was shelved for lack of time and resources when other more important priorities existed at the time (Velious/Kunark).
It's going to be hard for work to be done on anything though when they are having to constantly babysit the raid scene.

[Mags]

1. Add random monthly ZEMs to unused zones to diversify leveling.
2. Add raid chat ffs.
3. Add any zone from later expansions that fit into the existing continents (aside from instanced zones)...I'm looking at the fake wall in Oasis, and the zone of Surefall Glades(sp)
4. Shake up the loot in all unused zones making it worthwhile to go there.
5. Active some of the oldschool druid/wizard spires making the spells quest only.

Another vote for blessed/hot zones, that's the only thing about SoD that I miss compared to P99 honestly.

[Naethyn]

Veksar