Shocking leaked image shows spirit of compromise on p99 in A/A's absence!

[Litigator]

Hello Citizens! Today I have received an exciting document which has been leaked to me to broadcast. I have verified its authenticity with several independent sources.
http://imgur.com/a/CVdTa
link in case pic wont work: http://imgur.com/a/CVdTa

Evidently with A/A gone, the casual guilds of the server have come together to eliminate racing/wall staring for an entire spawn cycle. I am working quickly to uncover the mastermind(s) responsible for this groundbreaking development in civility, negotiation, and diplomacy; but nothing to report yet.


More to follow as it breaks!

[Litigator]

Link didnt work, attached a smaller version of the file

[khanable]

savages

[Ella`Ella]

Back in my day, atrocities of casuals filth getting pixels never would have happened.

[Nuggie]

In your day you could break rules wantonly without fear of retribution. The sheriff carries a pistol now and he isn't afraid to use it.

[Ella`Ella]

In your day you could break rules wantonly without fear of retribution. The sheriff carries a pistol now and he isn't afraid to use it.

Those were the days!

[Sorn]

Litigator! Clickbait titles? For shame.

Also this just shows who got the targets, not what was done by them to get those targets. You suggest that there's more compromise and less lawyerquesting by casual raiders in light of the suspensions of A/A. Where's the proof? I want screenshots of everyone being nice (or at least civil) with each other!

[Ivory]

Lies! It is all lies!!! The AoW was FTE by the gnomes (specifically, Sneaksy the Gnome) and therefore belonged to the gnomes! But!! Was stolen without ransom paid!!!!

[bktroost]

Lies! It is all lies!!! The AoW was FTE by the gnomes (specifically, Sneaksy the Gnome) and therefore belonged to the gnomes! But!! Was stolen without ransom paid!!!!

hehe hey Ivory. Nice FTE today btw.

[Litigator]

this just shows who got the targets, not what was done by them to get those targets. You suggest that there's more compromise and less lawyerquesting by casual raiders in light of the suspensions of A/A. Where's the proof? I want screenshots of everyone being nice (or at least civil) with each other!

Nobody got these targets yet, but this is a major development in p99 raiding! This is a final list after negotiations of who gets the rights to each mob, no racing or poopsocking necessary. <Law Offices of Norrath> was not involved in these negotiations so we cant say beyond that, but we expect further developments in this story now that its public. After the cycle is over it will become more clear how well this worked out.

[Ravager]

Don't worry. Things will turn back to shit next week.

[Skew]

Epic work from all guild leaders involved.
Give yourself a hand-shandy gents.
/salute

[Ciroco]

no, he made a chart of what guilds are scheduled to kill emulated elf bosses on a fake server for a 17 year old game

praise the mayor

[Mythanor]

Amazing what a suspension of douche baggery can cause to the relations on a 17 year old server... coincidence? First polls in, say *Not so*

[ArumTP]

Raid windows gonna get long

[bktroost]

no, he made a chart of what guilds are scheduled to kill emulated elf bosses on a fake server for a 17 year old game

praise the mayor


This feat was not accomplished by me alone. Big props to Cloki and Getsome for their efforts putting this together and to Europa's officer core for driving the vision behind it from CSG's side. I'm excited to see FoH and Venerate and Anon and Infernus come away with some really good things this weekend.

We got AoW to 30% on our first ever solo attempt and that felt really good to learn where we were falling short and how desynch works in that zone. I'm sure all the guilds listed above will learn a lot this weekend too and come out better for it!

[Ciroco]

oh, sorry, I was referring to Mayor Gubbin

[raato]

Here is picture of raceline for last Statue: http://imgur.com/a/finyK

[Vallanor]

Here is picture of raceline for last Statue: http://imgur.com/a/finyK

I lol'd.

[Kagey]

aww lol thats sad.. 0 competition.

[brecon]

aww lol thats sad.. 0 competition.

If by competition you mean a bunch of lvl 5 shamans waiting for 18 hours straight to run through an EQ zone...if that's what you truly love about this game, then more power to you.

[Freakish]

Concedeconcedeconcede

[Kagey]

If by competition you mean a bunch of lvl 5 shamans waiting for 18 hours straight to run through an EQ zone...if that's what you truly love about this game, then more power to you.

Do you hand out participation trophies? We can make you some if you like.

[Danth]

Do you hand out participation trophies? We can make you some if you like.

Even if you win under the present rules, you still lose. Even most the folks in the guilds that usually win tend to agree the present raid scene's a trainwreck.

-----------------------------------------

I see weak things like the fearplane golems on the list, which probably the better part of a dozen different guilds can do. Were all the many guilds that can do those contacted and made part of the discussion prior to awarding them to the guild listed on the spreadsheet posted above?


Danth

[bktroost]

Even if you win under the present rules, you still lose. Even most the folks in the guilds that usually win tend to agree the present raid scene's a trainwreck.

-----------------------------------------

I see weak things like the fearplane golems on the list, which probably the better part of a dozen different guilds can do. Were all the many guilds that can do those contacted and made part of the discussion prior to awarding them to the guild listed on the spreadsheet posted above?


Danth

As you can see in the raid post, all guilds were invited post fact and since then two additional stepped forward and some changes we made to shift mobs their way.

[bktroost]

oh, sorry, I was referring to Mayor Gubbin

lol you're such a punk :P

[Danth]

As you can see in the raid post, all guilds were invited post fact and since then two additional stepped forward and some changes we made to shift mobs their way.

Lot of folks in weaker guilds don't read the boards, hence why I asked if they had been contacted directly. If no contact has been made I'll try to spread the word later on tonight...too late, perhaps, but maybe not.

Danth

[Ravager]

Do you hand out participation trophies? We can make you some if you like.
Why the hell not? It's a PvE server afterall.

[bktroost]

Lot of folks in weaker guilds don't read the boards, hence why I asked if they had been contacted directly. If no contact has been made I'll try to spread the word later on tonight...too late, perhaps, but maybe not.

Danth

There are incidentals planned for that. Kunark, for example, is being left completely alone. VS, Gore, Tally, Fay, etc. I think infernus has Sev though. Only Kunark being alloted. Old world Naggy/Vox are also left for them. Essentially there's little to no competition from guilds not already assigned mobs. The rest of the unassigned mobs are available to the rest of the server without competition from those involved in the allotment.

[Caiu]

Good luck and enjoy your fruits. I will say there is a little disappointment in me that other guilds won't be practicing their run ups. It does get old staring at the same bindsighters hour after hour. However I suppose those interested in that style gameplay are already well placed.

o/

[Swish]

This is much healthier, much more positive...it should stay this way <3

[Tasslehofp99]

Good luck and enjoy your fruits. I will say there is a little disappointment in me that other guilds won't be practicing their run ups. It does get old staring at the same bindsighters hour after hour. However I suppose those interested in that style gameplay are already well placed.

o/


lol, I mean you're talking about the class R people here.

This is much healthier, much more positive...it should stay this way <3


It would most likely get old after a month or two of no competition. People would just start taking whatever mobs they want after getting sick of waiting in line for ages.

[Swish]

I think there would still be competition, but people wouldn't be up and batphoning at 4am trying to get pixels...heaven forbid the Euros or Asian players secure some pixels eh?

[Thulack]

So wait. Instead of 2 guilds getting everything 3 will now? Seems legit....

[Tankdan]

This is what P99 could have been.


Devs/GMs it is not too late.

[Ravager]

lol, I mean you're talking about the class R people here.




It would most likely get old after a month or two of no competition. People would just start taking whatever mobs they want after getting sick of waiting in line for ages.
Doubtful. The people who can't wait their turn are the vast minority of the server, but sadly the Devs and GMS cater to the vast minority.

[Swish]

So wait. Instead of 2 guilds getting everything 3 will now? Seems legit....

Detecting some bad feeling among the status quo raiders.

What 3 guilds are you thinking of?

I was thinking of...

Rustle
Europa
Omni
Azure Guard
Venerate
Fires of Heaven
Kittens
Paradox


"3 guilds" lol

[getsome]

So wait. Instead of 2 guilds getting everything 3 will now? Seems legit....

Last count it was 11 guilds who are looking to participate.

[bktroost]

As well as the many other guilds who didn't reach out that will benefit from getting the unalloted old world and Kunark mobs. 32k mobs shouldnt really be locked down by guilds that bring 120 people to a 1 million hp mob fight. This feels more "natural progression" to me.

PvE>PvP

[Ravager]

Thousands of people play here, yet less than 100 shape the end game. Does this seem right?

[Swish]

Thousands of people play here, yet less than 100 shape the end game. Does this seem right?

NO!

[arsenalpow]

this isn't new, when the uncooperative guilds aren't around people will play nice

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76871

[Swish]

uncooperative guilds

Except the same guild that wanted cooperation in that thread link ended up taking a giant dump on guilds who were just breaking into the raid scene once they'd fenced off some pixels for "casual guilds" during Kunark, where obviously the most hardcore guild who didn't want to compete in Class C ended up calling a raid alliance between 3 guilds "casual scum guilds" (CSG) or "team gimpatron".

The meta shifted that way because BDA (and Taken) were zerging with 70-80 on dragons that died within 5 seconds of being engaged.

So what happens when Moonlight Crusaders or Supremacy want to raid with 25-30? They're told that they're making the rotation untenable.

Better nuke it eh?

gg BDA, glad you're gone.

[EdTuBrutus]

It's very interesting that there are near server high populations. This was the real issue that the original EQ Devs never understood, rare and contested content does not draw people into the game and create interest in the game. It does the opposite.

It;'s why the whole 7 day respawn is absolutely idiotic. It allows a tiny number of players to control the content of the game, get their rocks off denying people content and in the end that becomes the core focus of high end content consumers. Mobs spawning every single day - once per 24 hours would boost the server pop, probably double it AND get rid of the 24/7 content thieves whose participation does nothing but reduce others enjoyment - indeed that is their ONLY goal at this point. They control the mob, you don't get the mob, they chuckle and jerk off thinking bout it.

At its core, there was and is a great game in Everquest. But it was ruined by some pretty ridiculous design decisions that every game since EQ has proved were both unnecessary and counterproductive in terms of keeping people's interest and keeping them playing the game.

[getsome]

On a side note, aside from Infernus who is nearing primetime. Mobs are up in ToV right now and all the guilds are sleeping and getting a good nights rest.

[Leiker]

Pixels for everyone!

[EdTuBrutus]

Pixels for everyone!

11 guilds want pixels for everyone.

2 guilds wants to control pixels.

This is the best weekend since I started on P99. Keep it that way by making A/A join the rotation. If they refuse - ban them.

[Ikon]

It's very interesting that there are near server high populations. This was the real issue that the original EQ Devs never understood, rare and contested content does not draw people into the game and create interest in the game. It does the opposite.

It;'s why the whole 7 day respawn is absolutely idiotic. It allows a tiny number of players to control the content of the game, get their rocks off denying people content and in the end that becomes the core focus of high end content consumers. Mobs spawning every single day - once per 24 hours would boost the server pop, probably double it AND get rid of the 24/7 content thieves whose participation does nothing but reduce others enjoyment - indeed that is their ONLY goal at this point. They control the mob, you don't get the mob, they chuckle and jerk off thinking bout it.

At its core, there was and is a great game in Everquest. But it was ruined by some pretty ridiculous design decisions that every game since EQ has proved were both unnecessary and counterproductive in terms of keeping people's interest and keeping them playing the game.
I believe its the opposite to be honest. Games like WoW survive on casuals, EQ is about long term investment of time. Thats what made it popular with poopsockers.

I played EvE for 13 years and its the same. Its not a casual high turnover game, you can't sign up and be done with it in 3 months like a lot of other new games.

[ArumTP]

11 guilds want pixels for everyone.

2 guilds wants to control pixels.

This is the best weekend since I started on P99. Keep it that way by making A/A join the rotation. If they refuse - ban them.


Good luck with that.

[bktroost]

Raid windows gonna get long

Mobs are up in ToV right now and all the guilds are sleeping and getting a good nights rest.

Actually Arum, as I was talking to some of the banned guild's people, this was a big concern of theirs. While they are not involved this weekend, they live on this server and their concerns are still valid.

So it seemed like a win/win scenario for CSG to choose to leave all our mobs up in ToV until a designated time and down them all at once by pulling to exit. That means we had to make two costly choices.

One was that we couldn't crawl to the mobs, which was on everyone's mind. Second was that it meant we had to trust that everything would still be up and people would follow the agreement.

So in the end, everyone has followed the agreements (no lawyerquesting even) and all mobs are going to be stacked tighter than ever! (and we got to sleep in!)

It's going to be a good day for the server.

[Ravager]

Actually Arum, as I was talking to some of the banned guild's people, this was a big concern of theirs. While they are not involved this weekend, they live on this server and their concerns are still valid.
This conversation would not be taking place if the bolded wasn't sadly true.

[getsome]

KT popped @ 1:30 am est. I set my alarm for 9:30 am est. Woke up got a coffee down the street, and logged in @ 10 am est and killed it with our pals from Infernus.

Doz is up now, logging off and gonna kill him @ 1 pm est, so our pals in CSG can have the zone to themselves for a bit while they doing their dragons.

[Barcelona]

Well this is all fine and good, but nerds know that the jocks will be back and nothing will change sadly.

Detoxx/Breaken be like:

http://i.imgur.com/kvoiTZe.gif

[RedXIII]

Anyone streaming? I heard you guys gonna crawl ToV and kill dragons at their spawn point instead of pull to zone in and "bring chaos" to a safe place.

I'd love to see that. Or was that all just bullshit talk?

[Kagey]

Actually Arum, as I was talking to some of the banned guild's people, this was a big concern of theirs. While they are not involved this weekend, they live on this server and their concerns are still valid.

So it seemed like a win/win scenario for CSG to choose to leave all our mobs up in ToV until a designated time and down them all at once by pulling to exit. That means we had to make two costly choices.



I would think that csg and other guilds want closer spawn timers rather then spread out..

There is now far less chance A/A will be on a fte lock while another dragon spawn..

[Sorn]

KT popped @ 1:30 am est. I set my alarm for 9:30 am est. Woke up got a coffee down the street, and logged in @ 10 am est and killed it with our pals from Infernus.

Doz is up now, logging off and gonna kill him @ 1 pm est, so our pals in CSG can have the zone to themselves for a bit while they doing their dragons.

I think this is the first time I've actually read a witness account describing sanity in the p99 raiding scene.

[bktroost]

Anyone streaming? I heard you guys gonna crawl ToV and kill dragons at their spawn point instead of pull to zone in and "bring chaos" to a safe place.

I'd love to see that. Or was that all just bullshit talk?

As i said, we wanted to clear through the zone. That of course would cause mobs to spread out on timers which was a very strong request from both A/A guilds. So, as i stated, we are doing pulls for their sake. Even though we know it helps us to have timers stacked, it was a biiiig desire to do a crawl.

I will say that we are staying at exit, announcing our pulls, holding pulls when necessary and will even leave the zone so another guild can come in and do some raid mobs at a camp that doesn't disturb the zone. Also, when we do pull Vulak/Vyemm we will put someone outside to announce that entrance is not safe periodically throughout the fight and announce when vulak is being pulled to entrance for anyone who may want to come in.

There will be no chaos today and the server gets stacked timers.

Sadly, we do not get to do a crawl like the good ol' days.

[Lammy]

I wonder how much hard drive space will be saved this weekend

[Raev]

So, as i stated, we are doing pulls for their sake. Even though we know it helps us to have timers stacked, it was a biiiig desire to do a crawl.

Why? If you wait until all your targets are up, a crawl through NTOV shouldn't take more than 4-5 hours. You'll probably get 150 players for this.

[manguard]

This weekend has been full of people getting to hang out with their friends and watching each other kill dragons and get pixels in a classic setting. That's what being a carebear is all about. much mother flippin wicked casual love to my fam MMFWCL

[Expediency]

I never wake up in the middle of the night to kill a dragon, but this morning nobody had to so I didnt miss any of the spawns. We started right on time at 10AM and have already killed several of our targets. No zone trains, no lawyerquesting, no rushing. I see and hear that other guilds in this rotation are doing the same. Im willing to bet the GM petitions this weekend were down significantly. Nobody stared at any walls. Amazing situation, only earthquakes are this much fun.

[RedXIII]

I heard that if you want uncontested pixels, there is plenty of servers out there that will give you that.

I play for the #Classic feeling. On Morell-thule server we had a fierce competition and i loved it. Hope Nilbog/Rogean dont enforce us to be all welfare pixel cry babies in the future.

@Nemce: no idea what you guys agreed to. All i see is that you guys never crawl ToV, EVER. i have seen Cekenar been up for like 3-4 days without any A/A guilds killing it, and not a single casual guild went clear to try it. I have seen Wuoshi up for like 5 days too... and no guild willing to take him down. So i ask myself... if its not for pixels... if its all for the joy of killing the Dragon... why just avoid those 2 targets time and time again?

Just wanted everyone to be more honest. I am here, on this server for the competition and i cant wait to see my Aftermeth rivals at the FTE line next week.

Pras this server to allow us to compete. /bow.

[Vallanor]

Staring at a wall for 16 hours a day is not competition. It's lunacy.

[maskedmelonpai]

Actually Arum, as I was talking to some of the banned guild's people, this was a big concern of theirs. While they are not involved this weekend, they live on this server and their concerns are still valid.

So it seemed like a win/win scenario for CSG to choose to leave all our mobs up in ToV until a designated time and down them all at once by pulling to exit. That means we had to make two costly choices.

One was that we couldn't crawl to the mobs, which was on everyone's mind. Second was that it meant we had to trust that everything would still be up and people would follow the agreement.

So in the end, everyone has followed the agreements (no lawyerquesting even) and all mobs are going to be stacked tighter than ever! (and we got to sleep in!)

It's going to be a good day for the server.

This is actually super cool. Major props to Nemce and CSG for even taking into account the suspended guilds concerns. Hugely praiseworthy move ^^

[Mythanor]

I heard that if you want uncontested pixels, there is plenty of servers out there that will give you that.

I play for the #Classic feeling. On Morell-thule server we had a fierce competition and i loved it. Hope Nilbog/Rogean dont enforce us to be all welfare pixel cry babies in the future.

@Nemce: no idea what you guys agreed to. All i see is that you guys never crawl ToV, EVER. i have seen Cekenar been up for like 3-4 days without any A/A guilds killing it, and not a single casual guild went clear to try it. I have seen Wuoshi up for like 5 days too... and no guild willing to take him down. So i ask myself... if its not for pixels... if its all for the joy of killing the Dragon... why just avoid those 2 targets time and time again?

Just wanted everyone to be more honest. I am here, on this server for the competition and i cant wait to see my Aftermeth rivals at the FTE line next week.

Pras this server to allow us to compete. /bow.

Your memories of *Classic* and mine, are so far apart and drastically different, that I cant even fathom someone thinking racing for mobs, training others, crapping on any inter guild relations or friends outside your own guild, and general over all douche baggery as *Classic* ... it's disturbing really.

[Ravager]

Just wanted everyone to be more honest. I am here, on this server for the competition and i cant wait to see my Aftermeth rivals at the FTE line next week.

Pras this server to allow us to compete. /bow.
This is how to delude yourself.

If competition really meant something to you, you wouldn't be playing PvE EQ.

[manguard]

I heard that if you want uncontested pixels, there is plenty of servers out there that will give you that.

I play for the #Classic feeling. On Morell-thule server we had a fierce competition and i loved it. Hope Nilbog/Rogean dont enforce us to be all welfare pixel cry babies in the future.

@Nemce: no idea what you guys agreed to. All i see is that you guys never crawl ToV, EVER. i have seen Cekenar been up for like 3-4 days without any A/A guilds killing it, and not a single casual guild went clear to try it. I have seen Wuoshi up for like 5 days too... and no guild willing to take him down. So i ask myself... if its not for pixels... if its all for the joy of killing the Dragon... why just avoid those 2 targets time and time again?

Just wanted everyone to be more honest. I am here, on this server for the competition and i cant wait to see my Aftermeth rivals at the FTE line next week.

Pras this server to allow us to compete. /bow.

We get it. You want to feel superior to other people and call them welfare pixel crybabies... while crying about them.

[Kagey]

Staring at a wall for 16 hours a day is not competition. It's lunacy.

185ppl on a dragon target and calling it fun is also lunacy. its shooting fish in a barrel.

[Raev]

I heard that if you want uncontested pixels, there is plenty of servers out there that will give you that.
I think when Daybreak launches their next TLP a lot of people will switch. Also when P2002/TAKP come out with Luclin.


I play for the #Classic feeling. On Morell-thule server we had a fierce competition and i loved it. Hope Nilbog/Rogean dont enforce us to be all welfare pixel cry babies in the future.

I'm not against competition; I'm against wall staring. If I held the 'Dragging your ballsack across a field of broken glass World Championships', would you participate?

[Ravager]

185ppl on a dragon target and calling it fun is also lunacy. its shooting fish in a barrel.
I'd take this over petition quest.

[RedXIII]

Staring at a wall for 16 hours a day is not competition. It's lunacy.

Noone does that. besides maybe 2-3 guys that i know. Usually you have a "FTE-Team" some people track, some people race... some people cant commit as much as others, so they devote like 2-3h into it. Helps a lot. Should try having a "guild" to share the bourden of things sometimes. =D

Your memories of *Classic* and mine, are so far apart and drastically different, that I cant even fathom someone thinking racing for mobs, training others, crapping on any inter guild relations or friends outside your own guild, and general over all douche baggery as *Classic* ... it's disturbing really.

Yeah man, i know each server was differently but... at Morell-thule we had the 2 top dogs, Furys Edge and Thunderwalkers. We had a blast there. I loved it. =D

I think when Daybreak launches their next TLP a lot of people will switch. Also when P2002/TAKP come out with Luclin.


I'm not against competition; I'm against wall staring. If I held the 'Dragging your ballsack across a field of broken glass World Championships', would you participate?

If it was the same Adrenaline and the good feeling after scoring a Yellow Text, sure would. Girls do nastier things with my ballsack then that. If the reward is nice, i am up for it, if not... ill just play/compete elsewhere.

I am happy for CSG and Rustle (cuz Rustle are my old pals). But i will not lie and pretend this is how i want the server i play at be. Because its not.

Clear rules, play fair, and step on their throats is all i am about. <3

[bktroost]

@Nemce: All i see is that you guys never crawl ToV, EVER.



Then you have a very foggy memory or don't pay much attention. We crawled NToV early in velious three times. Once was a major failure with multiple trains dropped on us and some we made ourselves. One was a very sneaky and we downed Cekenar. I remember diamond running up on us and very confused when he found 100 CSG at the top of the ramp killing a red wurm. The third we actually got to Sevelak but wiped on the kill in the pool room.

[RedXIII]

Then you have a very foggy memory or don't pay much attention. We crawled NToV early in velious three times. Once was a major failure with multiple trains dropped on us and some we made ourselves. One was a very sneaky and we downed Cekenar. I remember diamond running up on us and very confused when he found 100 CSG at the top of the ramp killing a red wurm. The third we actually got to Sevelak but wiped on the kill in the pool room.

I remember both times.

First, u guys did not make past eashen, terrible huge failure.

Second, you guys CoTH'ed 100 people to PoM, thats not crawling either.

I really hope you guys do it sometime, so you guys realize how after the 3rd time how fucking boring it is. I have done it with Rampage at early Velious and it was fun for like a month... after that got very boring.

[Ravager]

Noone does that. besides maybe 2-3 guys that i know. Usually you have a "FTE-Team" some people track, some people race... some people cant commit as much as others, so they devote like 2-3h into it. Helps a lot. Should try having a "guild" to share the bourden of things sometimes. =D



Yeah man, i know each server was differently but... at Morell-thule we had the 2 top dogs, Furys Edge and Thunderwalkers. We had a blast there. I loved it. =D



If it was the same Adrenaline and the good feeling after scoring a Yellow Text, sure would. Girls do nastier things with my ballsack then that. If the reward is nice, i am up for it, if not... ill just play/compete elsewhere.

I am happy for CSG and Rustle (cuz Rustle are my old pals). But i will not lie and pretend this is how i want the server i play at be. Because its not.

Clear rules, play fair, and step on their throats is all i am about. <3
So long as there's 1 person on this server with this mentality, raiding here will always suck for 99% of the players 99% of the time. Without GM intervention that is.

[Kagey]

why cant these people play on live then? its fit to the 'casual' player waaaaaaay more.

[Vallanor]

185ppl on a dragon target and calling it fun is also lunacy. its shooting fish in a barrel.

For most of us, it's the first time we've ever had a chance to do these mobs. Of course literally everyone is going to try to make it.

[Expediency]

Just wanted everyone to be more honest. I am here, on this server for the competition and i cant wait to see my Aftermeth rivals at the FTE line next week.


Next week when both aftermath and awakening are back in the game, you guys will probably go right back to getting most of the mobs by spending your lives staring at the wall. But now the whole rest of the server has seen how much better things can be and I think you're going to get more pushback than you've been getting. Dropping trains on people, cutting in front of weaker guilds who are already set up in a place, arguing over spawns, it just doesnt have to be like that.

Hopefully the GMs move much more quickly to ban you in the future so that they can get a week of server unity.

[Freakish]

I remember both times.

First, u guys did not make past eashen, terrible huge failure.

Second, you guys CoTH'ed 100 people to PoM, thats not crawling either.

I really hope you guys do it sometime, so you guys realize how after the 3rd time how fucking boring it is. I have done it with Rampage at early Velious and it was fun for like a month... after that got very boring.

Oh it was fun. Until you had to do it for a single Dragon, kill it then log out and waste time logging in again five minutes later because a new Dragon halfway across the zone spawned and now we have to clear to that. At 6 am. Zone pulls might not be classic but neither is this variance where you can't predict when something will spawn. And if you're in ntov clearing and something spawns you aren't even allowed to touch it anymore.

[Ciroco]

why cant these people play on live then? its fit to the 'casual' player waaaaaaay more.

The same reason you don't. Live sucks.

[manguard]

@Nemce: no idea what you guys agreed to. All i see is that you guys never crawl ToV, EVER.


I remember both times.



Just wanted everyone to be more honest.


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
this is how you don't get taken seriously

[Kagey]

It doesnt suck, its just more WoW style instance hold your hand to a raid mob type of style.

When EQ was made it was the hardcore of hardcore games. It was meant to be punishing.

[RedXIII]

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
this is how you don't get taken seriously

if you call not getting to eashen... and CoTH 100 ppl to PoM a crawl... rofl... get ready to meet Vulak 4way splits. Tell Quellod i said hi. Do it quick thou... cuz he will wipe your 100man force fast =D

[Ivory]

It doesnt suck, its just more WoW style instance hold your hand to a raid mob type of style.

When EQ was made it was the hardcore of hardcore games. It was meant to be punishing.

But now it has become easy....too easy.....since it is so old and we have worked out every method of efficient leveling / camping / questing....

In order to restore everquest to its former glory of exploration and challenge and excitement, we must create a server with maximum level of 39 and no level limits on items / zones / quests.

It is the only wayyyy!

[Ciroco]

It doesnt suck, its just more WoW style instance hold your hand to a raid mob type of style.

When EQ was made it was the hardcore of hardcore games. It was meant to be punishing.

Yet somehow the raiding scene here makes classic EQ look like a game of Scrabble with your grandma.

[Ravager]

why cant these people play on live then? its fit to the 'casual' player waaaaaaay more.
You don't want that. Remember back in the day when TMO dominated? Peak population was 400 at prime time on a Friday Night. There was no "competition" and hardly anyone to sell the content to.
It doesnt suck, its just more WoW style instance hold your hand to a raid mob type of style.

When EQ was made it was the hardcore of hardcore games. It was meant to be punishing.
Original EQ was meant to be a MMORPG. They wanted subscribers. It was one of the first of its kind and there wasn't a whole lot to model success on. It wasn't meant to be brutally hard, it was meant to be a D&D like game playable by a few thousand people at a time. There's a reason why the brutally hard aspects of it have been tuned out over the years.

[Kagey]

Playing back in the day just being at the raid and seeing the dragon with my own eyes was enough..

Now to get the blood pumping its getting that yellow text.. and downing the dragon before another pops. rush rush rush mode.

[manguard]

if you call not getting to eashen... and CoTH 100 ppl to PoM a crawl... rofl... get ready to meet Vulak 4way splits. Tell Quellod i said hi. Do it quick thou... cuz he will wipe your 100man force fast =D

are you literally rule lawyering what should be considered a crawl

[Kagey]

Original EQ was meant to be a MMORPG. They wanted subscribers. It was one of the first of its kind and there wasn't a whole lot to model success on. It wasn't meant to be brutally hard, it was meant to be a D&D like game playable by a few thousand people at a time. There's a reason why the brutally hard aspects of it have been tuned out over the years.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with your "not supposed to be brutal hard"
The VP keys, ST keys. die and thats it, no GM help with CRs. Think about how hard this rpg game was compared to others out at that time.

[Ivory]

It was designed to be challenging in a way that would require teamwork from other people. People sitting and soloing fungi tunics for twinks wasn't what it was meant to be.

[Ravager]

I disagree with your "not supposed to be brutal hard"
The VP keys, ST keys. die and thats it, no GM help with CRs. Think about how hard this rpg game was compared to others out at that time.
Well there wasn't a ton of content when it launched, or even after the first 3 expansions. The time sinks, (and lack of knowledge about quests) had to make up for that fact, otherwise people would have blown through the content in a month like they do today.

But time sink does not equal brutal hard.

[Ciroco]

I am happy CSG/FAV/Rustle are getting to experience some of these encounters 1 time. unfortunately for this 1 time you threw close to 200 bodies at these dragons, not even getting a glimpse at what a real encounter on these mobs is like.

implying that poopsock racing and TL train pulling is part of a "real" encounter

[William_Munny15]

I am happy CSG/FAV/Rustle are getting to experience some of these encounters 1 time. unfortunately for this 1 time you threw close to 200 bodies at these dragons, not even getting a glimpse at what a real encounter on these mobs is like.

It's one week, were bringing out all the casuals to have a good time seeing some dragons , we got to see awesome spin stun of Lady N which so far has been my personal favorite. We know you'll nit pick everything and it's not an accomplishment for YOU, but for US. Next week you can go back to showing us you're better at EQ again. Also thanks for being in raato's stream and saying grats on vyemm, that was at least nice of you =)

[Dolalin]

Originally Posted by teija View Post
I am happy CSG/FAV/Rustle are getting to experience some of these encounters 1 time. unfortunately for this 1 time you threw close to 200 bodies at these dragons, not even getting a glimpse at what a real encounter on these mobs is like.

It's true, you do need a lot fewer bodies to down NTOV mobs when you've been farming NTOV drops for a year and a half.

[Caiu]

It's one week, were bringing out all the casuals to have a good time seeing some dragons , we got to see awesome spin stun of Lady N which so far has been my personal favorite.
Anytime Nev gets pulled into camp know that quite a few monk corpses purchased it :P Hardest mob to pull in ToV that I've experienced due to the stun and scale.

[arsenalpow]

why cant these people play on live then? its fit to the 'casual' player waaaaaaay more.
yup
The same reason you don't. Live sucks.
nope
It doesnt suck, its just more WoW style instance hold your hand to a raid mob type of style.

When EQ was made it was the hardcore of hardcore games. It was meant to be punishing.
nope

[Raev]

Well, I can't imagine what rewards would be worth a shredded ballsack, certainly not some pixels in a video game and yellow text to the zone, but to each their own I guess.

[Achromatic]

I wonder if they cleared up to all of the dragons like they've been claiming they would since Velious came out.

[Faulken]

aww lol thats sad.. 0 competition.

You're a retard if you think this game is competitive in any way. It's an elf simulator™ where the biggest losers with the most free time win.

If you want a competitive game go play Dota2, league, CS or heck even WoW

[Ivory]

You're a retard if you think this game is competitive in any way. It's an elf simulator™ where the biggest losers with the most free time win.

Excuse me, excuse me, this is a gnome simulator. Elves are just extra.

[Kagey]

I guess not everyone sits doing tradeskills all day Faulken.. Sorry your mad but your wrong.

[Faulken]

Game is 99% about time spent, there is very little skill involved in the actual gameplay. Nice try tho

Was a lot of fun seeing/killing CT and Yelinak for the first time this morning BTW!

[Kagey]

You will find out what skill is needed when things are contested. And as you say 99% is time spent, and how quick you can clear and kill mobs.

[The Prez]

The leaders and dragons also rejoice! King Tormax was able to reign over his citadel of Kael Drakkel for over 12 hours! Dain Frostreaver is still sitting upon his throne! I hear Dozekar the Cursed has even had time to plead his case with the other dragons, and may not be forced to be a test dummy much longer!

[The Prez]

I wonder if they cleared up to all of the dragons like they've been claiming they would since Velious came out.

Nah, they've just been enjoying dying at the entrance and LTK like the rest of us. Obvious ploy to bitch and moan is obvious

[Ravager]

You will find out what skill is needed when things are contested. And as you say 99% is time spent, and how quick you can clear and kill mobs.

I bet people are really impressed with you when you tell them how skilled you are at competing here.

[Kagey]

I bet people are really impressed with you when you tell them how skilled you are at competing here.

only have 1 fte race on my belt.

[Zemus]

I am happy CSG/FAV/Rustle are getting to experience some of these encounters 1 time. unfortunately for this 1 time you threw close to 200 bodies at these dragons, not even getting a glimpse at what a real encounter on these mobs is like.

I think we still learned a lot. I mean you have to try to build your raid force big enough to compete, and even then it's never enough. When that competition goes away what are you going to do? Of course you want everyone there at the encounter. Even if we improved our efficiency 100% we'd still get stomped by A/A next cycle. What it does do is give us the confidence that it can be done, and shows a lot of what is on the wiki isn't exactly accurate. We can build on that and start working on being more efficient because it gives us a baseline. Then you have Rustle taking on the content with pretty impressive numbers, but then again, they've been there before.

[fiveeauxfour]

CSG has like 150 for ToV Handouts. Why don't they cough up like 6 people from that to stand on the line in a raid scene they participated in shaping...

[Maner]

Next week when both aftermath and awakening are back in the game, you guys will probably go right back to getting most of the mobs by spending your lives staring at the wall. But now the whole rest of the server has seen how much better things can be and I think you're going to get more pushback than you've been getting. Dropping trains on people, cutting in front of weaker guilds who are already set up in a place, arguing over spawns, it just doesnt have to be like that.

Hopefully the GMs move much more quickly to ban you in the future so that they can get a week of server unity.

how do you cut in front of other guilds when everything is an hour lock with FTE now?

[Vallanor]

how do you cut in front of other guilds when everything is an hour lock with FTE now?

That only applies in ToV and Kael.

[mickmoranis]

Game is 99% about time spent, there is very little skill involved in the actual gameplay. Nice try tho

actual picture of this poster kicking rocks

https://www.project1999.com/forums/image.php?u=25254&dateline=1369750117

[Erati]

I am legit Happy

:)

[Faulken]

actual picture of this poster kicking rocks

It's just a game man no need to be upset cuz you know i'm right

[Vallanor]

CSG has like 150 for ToV Handouts. Why don't they cough up like 6 people from that to stand on the line in a raid scene they participated in shaping...

Are you asking why no one wants to stand in front of a door for 16 hours unable to look away from their monitor when they could be doing literally anything else? Seems kinda self-explanatory...

[Ravager]

Raiding here is like if you showed up to the YMCA for a pick-up game of basketball, but when you got there every court was taken by a handful of people who aren't playing basketball, but instead talking about how competitive you have to be to get court time and they brag about their mad skills of showing up the night before to be the first ones on the court.

So of course when management kicks them out, there's going to be 200 people that have been waiting for a chance to play showing up all at once.

[RedXIII]

Are you asking why no one wants to stand in front of a door for 16 hours unable to look away from their monitor when they could be doing literally anything else? Seems kinda self-explanatory...

With a raid force of 150, you can do it for like 10minutes and pass on the torch =D

[Vallanor]

With a raid force of 150, you can do it for like 10minutes and pass on the torch =D

The zerg was strong today! But only because it was a weekend, we knew about it several days in advance, we didn't have to worry about losing a mob due to a casual shenanigans, and these were brand new mobs we'd never seen before. If you think we're bringing anywhere near 150 under any other circumstances, you don't know casual scum very well! :)

[Kagey]

why does every casual think we have a full raid standing at a door for 16hours... you guys are so extreme with your accusations its crazy..

Obviously the majority takes breaks, does spints of 3 hrs or so, then hands it off to someone else... a great way is talking with your guild and saying hey im leaving line if anyone wants to take over..

This is crazy that it needs to be explained to yall like this.

or @Aegnor

[Wonkie]

this zerging is just as dumb as the normal shenanigans

probably the end of P99 for me

[Swish]

this zerging is just as dumb as the normal shenanigans

probably the end of P99 for me

don't go man, I'm not sure if we met in game but we need you and everyone else here :(

[maskedmelon]

Are you asking why no one wants to stand in front of a door for 16 hours unable to look away from their monitor when they could be doing literally anything else? Seems kinda self-explanatory...

No, he's asking why nobody else is willing to sacrifice their time for others. Yeah, it's just a game, but there are actually a handful of people in both Aftermath and Awakened who sacrifice a large amount of their time for their teams. And they are berated by the community for it.

[Ravager]

why does every casual think we have a full raid standing at a door for 16hours... you guys are so extreme with your accusations its crazy..

Obviously the majority takes breaks, does spints of 3 hrs or so, then hands it off to someone else... a great way is talking with your guild and saying hey im leaving line if anyone wants to take over..

This is crazy that it needs to be explained to yall like this.

or @Aegnor
Then why is it bad for them to raid with 180 at a scheduled time? In order to play like you suggest, you need 180 people regardless, since most won't show up at a batphone. If you scheduled your raids too, you'd have 180 just the same.

[Pan]

I think the takeaway here is that people want to experience the game in different ways. Good evidence of that shown this weekend.

Plenty of fodder to bring to the table arguing which "way" is best. And arguing about that is probably like pissing into the wind anyway.

Big props to those who participated in the negotiations to create what happened during this spawn cycle. In all my experience on p99 working on similar things, these sets of talks were by far the sanest, easiest, friendliest, and even quickest. And that's something itself.

[Sallan]

I am happy CSG/FAV/Rustle are getting to experience some of these encounters 1 time. unfortunately for this 1 time you threw close to 200 bodies at these dragons, not even getting a glimpse at what a real encounter on these mobs is like.

Infernus fields an average of 30-40, normally lower for kunark raids. For our first ikatiar we had 39 which was decent and we killed it just fine one shot. I'd say the encounter experience was well intact (however we didn't crawl up in the interest of time).

I expect the same numbers for cekenar and dain later tonight, if not lower. So I can assure you that we will be getting a chance to experience these encounters just fine.

Kudos to getsome and all the guilds that came together for this showing that it can be done with common decency.

[Ssouky]

It's way easier to kill some mobs with 80 than 200. With zerg comes management, lots of AFK, unreliable people, sub 60, very badly geared, without clickies, mistakes (who debuffed the slow ?), bad push, warping, lag... It's much more difficult to drive 200 scums than 80 very seasoned players that know exactly what to do. It's like saying "why did you come with 200 kids, 80 adults can manage it easily".

And I don't really see the point criticizing having 180 people for this. What would you do ? "Oh yeah, this is the first shot in 18 months, maybe in your life you get the thrills of hitting Vulak but no, you can't come, because we wouldn't experience the real encounter if we are more than 80 scrubs !"
If it was every week, a monday, like repop used to be, we'd have 60. It's a once in 18 months opportunity. People just wanted to be part of it. 180 of them.

[Caiu]

POP POP POP

[paulgiamatti]

I mean each individual guild in CSG could kill anything in ToV on a rotation. CSG isn't meant for rotations - the alliance is just a response to the bandwidth problem presented by the demented requirements to win mobs and "compete" for endgame content on Project 1999. The fact that even with an alliance between three robustly populated guilds they still can't convince enough people to fucking sit and stare at a goddamned doorway - in shifts - is not a sign that they suck at the game. It's a sign that they are not masochistic, deranged, or obsessive people.

[Sallan]

^ Exactly. Every guild on the list is capable on their own - having the rare opportunity to enjoy content by all is going to definitely draw most everyone

[maskedmelon]

. The fact that even with an alliance between three robustly populated guilds they still can't convince enough people to fucking sit and stare at a goddamned doorway - in shifts - is not a sign that they suck at the game. It's a sign that they are not masochistic, deranged, or obsessive people.

And that none of them really care much about their teams. Yeah its a game, but some people care more or take it more seriously than others. Of course they are going to realize better results. We can discuss the merits of it, whether it is a praiseworthy endeavor or wise investment, but the fact remains, those people care far more about their team than anyone in CSG or any of those other guilds. Most of A/A are the same way though, there just are far fewer (if any) selfless folks outside of A/A. Odd ain't it?

[bktroost]

Today vulak attempt went way past CSG prime because of other guilds and pulls and then we had trouble getting him solo. In fact we decided at 2am Europe time to call it. Before that happened though we realized that we went from 80/60/30 to 80/30/10 and, while that favored one guild, it didn't feel like a win for CSG. So we decided to special circumstances roll 1/1/1. Well when we couldn't pull it out before it got to late we decided to do it tomorrow. The offer of 1/1/1 was immediately returned to me even though their guilds would be better tomorrow and I won't have 80.

It's about people >pixels

[paulgiamatti]

And that none of them really care much about their teams. Yeah its a game, but some people care more or take it more seriously than others. Of course they are going to realize better results. We can discuss the merits of it, whether it is a praiseworthy endeavor or wise investment, but the fact remains, those people care far more about their team than anyone in CSG or any of those other guilds. Most of A/A are the same way though, there just are far fewer (if any) selfless folks outside of A/A. Odd ain't it?

I'd rather discuss the merits of a completely senseless statement like "there just are far fewer (if any) selfless folks outside of A/A". We don't need to discuss the merits of strictly in-group/out-group tribalist, antisocial gameplay, or the nonexistent altruism of people who only help those who share their guildtag. Discussing that with someone who conflates this with selflessness would be boarding their one-way crazy train to the nether regions of nut town.

[maskedmelon]

I'd rather discuss the merits of a completely senseless statement like "there just are far fewer (if any) selfless folks outside of A/A". We don't need to discuss the merits of strictly in-group/out-group tribalist, antisocial gameplay, or the nonexistent altruism of people who only help those who share their guildtag. Discussing that with someone who conflates this with selflessness would be boarding their one-way crazy train to the nether regions of nut town.

OK,we can do that. Setting aside developers, who outside of A/A are sacrificing significant portions of their real lives for their guilds or anyone else?

[Sorn]

OK,we can do that. Setting aside developers, who outside of A/A are sacrificing significant portions of their real lives for their guilds or anyone else?

Department of Fun volunteers when we have an event happening.

Edit to add: P99 retexturing crew.

Edit edit: The ones running Paradox's open raids, also.

[maskedmelon]

Department of Fun volunteers when we have an event happening.

Edit to add: P99 retexturing crew.

You don't enjoy those events? You would just as soon stare at a wall for 16 hours?

[Sorn]

You don't enjoy those events? You would just as soon stare at a wall for 16 hours?

Why do you think I run events? Sheesh. And I think someone said earlier that people do shifts of wall-staring. Wall-staring is wall-staring, whether it's done in a full 16-hour sitting or in 2-3 hour shifts. (I have heard of trackers falling asleep at the wheel and losing FTE, by the way.) In other words, BORING AS SHIT.

Also, you said:

Most of A/A are the same way though, there just are far fewer (if any) selfless folks outside of A/A. Odd ain't it?

and then asked:

Setting aside developers, who outside of A/A are sacrificing significant portions of their real lives for their guilds or anyone else?

I'm just answering your question. There are many people outside of A/A who are incredibly generous.

Speaking of more people outside of A/A who are quite selfless when it comes to helping others and their guilds, how about Azure Guard and their decision to donate their extra VS stones to druids outside of their guild? The random people I've come across who have invested time in helping me do something I can't do myself?

The competition at the 'top end' of raiding means a lot more lawyerquesting and nasty shittalking than is healthy. I see and hear of people getting burned out on the raid scene because of how it works, over and over again. People pop up, get to 60, get into raiding, get burned out, and quit in the span of 8 months to a year. They have fun until it's time to try to raid. Then you get into FRAPS and lawyerquesting. You can't group with them unless they're leveling an alt. Hanging out involves running around doing stupid shit, but only if they don't have to park their main somewhere for a raid. Then...eventually they just disappear. If you hear back from them, it's very often "I got burned out on raiding, man. The raid scene sucks."

P99 top end competitive raiding makes me lose friends. :(

[maskedmelon]

Why do you think I run events? Sheesh. And I think someone said earlier that people do shifts of wall-staring. Wall-staring is wall-staring, whether it's done in a full 16-hour sitting or in 2-3 hour shifts. (I have heard of trackers falling asleep at the wheel and losing FTE, by the way.) In other words, BORING AS SHIT.

Also, you said:



and then asked:



I'm just answering your question. There are many people outside of A/A who are incredibly generous.

Speaking of more people outside of A/A who are quite selfless when it comes to helping others and their guilds, how about Azure Guard and their decision to donate their extra VS stones to druids outside of their guild? The random people I've come across who have invested time in helping me do something I can't do myself?

The competition at the 'top end' of raiding means a lot more lawyerquesting and nasty shittalking than is healthy. I see and hear of people getting burned out on the raid scene because of how it works, over and over again. People pop up, get to 60, get into raiding, get burned out, and quit in the span of 8 months to a year. They have fun until it's time to try to raid. Then you get into FRAPS and lawyerquesting. You can't group with them unless they're leveling an alt. Hanging out involves running around doing stupid shit, but only if they don't have to park their main somewhere for a raid. Then...eventually they just disappear. If you hear back from them, it's very often "I got burned out on raiding, man. The raid scene sucks."

P99 top end competitive raiding makes me lose friends. :(

I don't disagree there are lots of generous people outside of A/A, I just think it is incredibly hypocritical to criticise the most hardcore players for doing the exact thing you (and everyone else, not singling you at) praise, but to a far greater extent. Its silly. There are lots of really nasty things said about those players and most are nice people. :c

At the end of the day though,they do it for the same reason you run events, or CSG shares loots, other players help one another with quests: they derive some satisfaction from it. Whether they are happy to see others happy, or happy to be important or loved,or to be a part of something greater, they like you and everyone else do it because they get something out of it and are no different from anyone else in that regard. Selflessness does not exist ^^

As for getting burned out, well that certainly IS a problem of taking things too seriously. That's why sharing thingis like you or Jeppen or Sneaksy is hugely valuable to get others to try new things. I credit Filbus and Tekilya with opening the door to more fun for me (though I have never been hardcore, I am too bad at video games and have too little time) ^^ Red is super useful though too for learning to accept other playstyles, maybe not so much now, but it sure was before ^^

[Nicoladen]

Raiding here is like if you showed up to the YMCA for a pick-up game of basketball, but when you got there every court was taken by a handful of people who aren't playing basketball, but instead talking about how competitive you have to be to get court time and they brag about their mad skills of showing up the night before to be the first ones on the court.

So of course when management kicks them out, there's going to be 200 people that have been waiting for a chance to play showing up all at once.

Bullseye :D

[titanshub]

Kittens helped kill 4 dragons and wiped pretty hilariously on woushi moments before the earthquake. All in all one of the best days I've ever had in EQ. Based on the response I've gotten from the rest of our people I think most feel the same way.

Whatever the politics and forum questing says there are many of us who were very happy to be able to run around try to kill dragons all over Norath.

Big thanks to Divinity for helping us do this!! We should have some petty good stuff up in our guild recruitment thread soon :D

[Sancta]

I think it's funny that many people on these forums blame A/A for the the state of the raid scene and completely forget that the P99 staff are the ones that made the rules the way they are. A/A didn't create FTE racing, the staff did.

[Skew]

I think it's funny that many people on these forums blame A/A for the the state of the raid scene and completely forget that the P99 staff are the ones that made the rules the way they are. A/A didn't create FTE racing, the staff did.

A-A did create racing. The FTE mechanic and rules have moprhed over the years but the current iteration of raid rules created by Sirken,whilst awful in concept,were just following on from whst A-A lesdership wanted.
Breakn amd Detoxx both wanted to have unlimited racers in the line running to get an FTE. The fault lies more at Awakeneds feet though for strong arming Detoxx over CoTH racing (Awakened ignored the 2 mages per wing limit) and then creeping the racing in at Kael first. Awakened wanted an arms race as they had the neckbeards to win it.

[Bubbles]

A-A did create racing. The FTE mechanic and rules have moprhed over the years but the current iteration of raid rules created by Sirken,whilst awful in concept,were just following on from whst A-A lesdership wanted.
Breakn amd Detoxx both wanted to have unlimited racers in the line running to get an FTE. The fault lies more at Awakeneds feet though for strong arming Detoxx over CoTH racing (Awakened ignored the 2 mages per wing limit) and then creeping the racing in at Kael first. Awakened wanted an arms race as they had the neckbeards to win it.

Actually, following the logic of the thread so far.. Awakened cared about its members more and were the most super wonderful people who have been unfairly critized by the masses.

Am I doing this right, maskedmelon? :)

[Skew]

It is what it is /shrug
Ive got no problem with people in AA raiding like they do , its their time.
It would be nice to have 1 week in 4 like this one though as it seems a lot of people had a lot of fun without too much wall staring (although it was hard to say yday was casual in time...yikes wife aggro)

[maskedmelon]

Actually, following the logic of the thread so far.. Awakened cared about its members more and were the most super wonderful people who have been unfairly critized by the masses.

Am I doing this right, maskedmelon? :)

If you want to say Awakened had the most dedicated, hardworking players who cared about their guild, then, sure ^^ its members cared about their guildmates more. I wouldn't say they are super wonderful people but in the eyes of the masses who argue for sharing & waiting (sacrifice & selflessness) over competition (whatever it may be), it is extraordinarily hypocritical to criticise them for it.

Its the hypocrisy that's annoying ^^

I do like your use of them phrase "most super winderful" though ^^ Very 'me' *thumbs up* ^.~b

[fiveeauxfour]

Skew, don't forget CSG had a hand in creating the current raid ruleset

[Skew]

Skew, don't forget CSG had a hand in creating the current raid ruleset

Yea thats true. A lot of us called that "clear to the mob" BS out for what it was at the time.
It was kinda like socialism. Sounds all warm and fuzzy on paper , in practice kills people :eek:

[lonmoer]

Yea thats true. A lot of us called that "clear to the mob" BS out for what it was at the time.
It was kinda like socialism. Sounds all warm and fuzzy on paper , in practice kills people :eek:

Yes because no one dies under capitalism :rolleyes:

[nyclin]

A-A did create racing. The FTE mechanic and rules have moprhed over the years but the current iteration of raid rules created by Sirken,whilst awful in concept,were just following on from whst A-A lesdership wanted.
Breakn amd Detoxx both wanted to have unlimited racers in the line running to get an FTE. The fault lies more at Awakeneds feet though for strong arming Detoxx over CoTH racing (Awakened ignored the 2 mages per wing limit) and then creeping the racing in at Kael first. Awakened wanted an arms race as they had the neckbeards to win it.

i made a long angry post in response to this, but i'm just going to post these links instead

raid summit thread/shitshow: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233102
recording of raid summit: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233734

in short: p99 raiding is a dumpster fire, go play on phinny if you want to raid

[Mortiis]

Here is picture of raceline for last Statue: http://imgur.com/a/finyK

I know it's a little late to the party, but man is this funny.

[Dolalin]

Solution seems pretty easy to me, alternate weeks of rotation and FFA racing. Everybody wins, although the poopsockers will get less loot on average than before. But what's pixels? It's all about the challenge, right?

[Raev]

in short: p99 raiding is a dumpster fire, go play on phinny if you want to raid

There are simply far too many players for the amount of raid content.

[Vallanor]

Solution seems pretty easy to me, alternate weeks of rotation and FFA racing. Everybody wins, although the poopsockers will get less loot on average than before. But what's pixels? It's all about the challenge, right?

This does seem the most logical. Rotated / FFA / Rotated / FFA. Hardcore = a lot more pixels than the casual scrubs, but admittedly less than now. Maybe FFA dragons drop another item or two to balance it back out. Could be great fun for every playstyle.

[Swish]

There are simply far too many players for the amount of raid content.

Mobs up and waiting to take your FTE on red server. Call now.

[bktroost]

Solution seems pretty easy to me, alternate weeks of rotation and FFA racing. Everybody wins, although the poopsockers will get less loot on average than before. But what's pixels? It's all about the challenge, right?

Someone send idea on a gift tag and send it on a gift basket to Rogean. Make it so.

[Erati]

with the raid forces I have seen on display this weekend its crazy that there are not more guilds willing to pick prime time portions of windows and try to lock into some juicy targets.

Most alliances are rolling around with over 120+ people and that's more than enough to make the content trivial - do we really need the content to also be rotated/uncontested?

Seems overkill. If they bring back R/C/FFA - I dont see how that would work with so many entities showing capable of the top tier zone ( ToV ) so most guilds would be in Class C by nature. A Rotated/FFA cycle would have to include A/A in the rotation and I doubt that would make the casuals happy since A/A would gobble their allotted mobs and want timers on these uncontested pops.

[Fasttimes]

with the raid forces I have seen on display this weekend its crazy that there are not more guilds willing to pick prime time portions of windows and try to lock into some juicy targets.

Most alliances are rolling around with over 120+ people and that's more than enough to make the content trivial - do we really need the content to also be rotated/uncontested?

Seems overkill. If they bring back R/C/FFA - I dont see how that would work with so many entities showing capable of the top tier zone ( ToV ) so most guilds would be in Class C by nature. A Rotated/FFA cycle would have to include A/A in the rotation and I doubt that would make the casuals happy since A/A would gobble their allotted mobs and want timers on these uncontested pops.

Aftermath/FFA/Awakened/Casual split with no A/A everyone wins, minus ego

[RedXIII]

Grow a pair and come play classic contested EQ. Problem solved. ;)

[Fasttimes]

Grow a pair and come play classic contested EQ. Problem solved. ;)

you can do that on your rotated FFA week. you can still claim king of the hill then.

[Vallanor]

Grow a pair and come play classic contested EQ. Problem solved. ;)

By "grow a pair" you mean "stare at a door for 'x' amount of time" (I'll concede most players aren't sitting there more than 3-4 hours at a time, but it's still an insane practice), and by "classic contested EQ" you mean "not remotely classic contested EQ" right? ;)

[Skew]

Yes because no one dies under capitalism :rolleyes:

My comment was tongue in cheek.
But if you want to make it a competition between the 2 systems , one is a standout winner on bodycount.

[Erati]

and by "classic contested EQ" you mean "not remotely classic contested EQ" right? ;)

Basically he means if you want something, those who want it most will do what needs to happen to secure it. Thats EQ. This weekend has proven that all raiding guilds, no matter the size or aspirations, will make time to have a crack at raid pixels. This seems pretty obvious to point out but when you see the amount of people showing up to these guaranteed pinatas you wonder if its about the experience of taking down raid bosses with friends or simply having a crack at gear upgrades that are few and far between. Probably somewhere in the middle for most Id wager.

Wall staring doesnt have to be the way raiders win these mobs ( though Everquest will always involve some form of socking as per Raev ). Variance @ 16 hours is the only thing that puts an imaginary glass ceiling between the hardcores and casuals. Change that variance to 2-4 hours and allow more guilds to contest.

Lets play Everquest again !

[Expediency]

with the raid forces I have seen on display this weekend its crazy that there are not more guilds willing to pick prime time portions of windows and try to lock into some juicy targets.

Most alliances are rolling around with over 120+ people and that's more than enough to make the content trivial - do we really need the content to also be rotated/uncontested?


This weekend has done a lot to show just how disconnected a/a is from the rest of us. Do you realize that outside of a/a very few people have seen all of these mobs? I dont think you do.

You're seeing these 120+ zerg forces because the content has been monopolized since launch by a handful of players so there's a backed up demand, plus players not in a/a flat out arent as prepared for these encounters. Dont have the gear or the experience. The more the merrier imo as long as the server isnt crashing.

Nobody wants to race for anything. Its awful. How anyone can consider that to be an acceptable final solution to a problem is beyond my comprehension. You want me to stand, looking at a wall, spamming a pet macro, for 3-4 hours, against 10 other people? You think a brand new guild is going to provide a dozen people, working in shifts, to race against you for two months until they learn how to compete?** There is no reward high enough for FTE getters to pay them back for the work they are doing.


**Even if we learn to compete history shows it wont be fair. look back at the past year's raid suspensions. We're competing against people who get suspended several times a year for cheating.

[Mortiis]

Basically he means if you want something, those who want it most will do what needs to happen to secure it.


Back to square one we go.

[Necrostoner]

Why cant everyone just make the obvious decision here?

Everyone wants to raid and wants cracks at mobs. The only way this will happen is a 2 day re spawn with some kind of lockout for a re spawn or two. 5-10 hour windows depending on mob class (yes I just made mob class up). At this rate re spawns will likely happen with certain mobs still up. With this plentiful of a bounty there shouldn't be too much bitching.

Lets end the bitch fest, unite, and make this shit happen. Everyone wants to raid. So, lets get everyone raiding.

[Necrostoner]

Or such as Eratanis idea of greatly shortening the variance. I also believe that a 2-4 hour variance is a resolution with a 3.5 day respawn (for different time zones) and a one round lockout per mob.

Edit*

We can then call this shit fixed and move on to a more fun and challenging game.

[Triiz]

Glad to see what seems like a full 1/3 of the population online last night was having a blast in the p99 raiding scene instead of 50 people out of 1000.

Grats to the casuals. As an innocent by stander, I hope this leads to an actual change on the server instead of a day that is looked back on as what p99 "could have been"

[Ravager]

Just turn every raid mob into a camp with a PH with a spawn time of 2 hours and a pop chance of 1/84. Require a presence at the spawn to claim the camp like any other camp. It'd be more in the spirit of classic EQ than anything at present.

[Boilon]

For once I think I would agree that the 16 hour variance is the problem here. I think that is the reason why the alliances largely exist in the first place because nobody wants to commit to such crazy hours of tracking. Even if they are not all spawning at the same time, 3-4 hours is still much more manageable than 16. I actually don't remember how this 16 hour spawn timer started and I have been on the server for some time.

[Phantasm]

Consider yourself lucky. 16 hour variance is a blessing!

I think a combination of reduced variance (~8hrs) and more repops (1, maybe 2?) A month would help a lot of the frustration the lesser guilds feel. These changes shouldnt negatively impact the higher tier amd ensure more mobs in general.

Regardless of who is "better" youre delusional if you think the raid scene is working well. Remove nonclassic variance(or shorten it) and add classic repops and youll see a happier raid scene and an increase in population.

Or just keep doing nothing, whichever :)

[nyclin]

scheduled raiding!

each guild submits a schedule for the targets they want, and then a staff member comes by and pops the mob at the scheduled time, prepares tea, and hands out biscuits while providing gentle reassurances that everything will be OK

[Triiz]

Create another blue server for the casuals who want to let someone tell them what they can and can't kill. They can create the class system all over again and have fun with that.

If this was done, wouldn't the new server be for the neckbeards? If yesterday showed anything it's that the neckbeards are a very small minority of the would be raiding population.

[arsenalpow]

Consider Phinny. Scheduled raiding has been a blessing.

[Phantasm]

Free mobs vs more mobs

Your attitude is exactly why so many people have been dissuaded from this game, more specifically high end raiding. By enforcing the metric you prevent change.

If you see yourself wall staring in shifts (lol) 2-3 years into Velious lol, have at it. Changes now preserve sanity later.

To be clear im not saying give out handouts, there should still be FTE races. Personally i dont like the 1hr rule, but meh. Increased repops and reduced variance dont really negatively impact the server and help alleviate the issue.

Though honestly it will take much more than that for the servers raid scene to improve.

[Erati]

If this was done, wouldn't the new server be for the neckbeards? If yesterday showed anything it's that the neckbeards are a very small minority of the would be raiding population.

This guy really hates neckbeards for being just a "bystander".

The problem is guilds dont want to slowly progress. They want everything bc they know they "could kill it" but when it comes to taking down a raid boss while others are contesting, all bets are off and they fold unwilling to try.

There are 1 hr locks on mobs - each time you secure one and suceed you gain a little bit of progress and knowledge but rather than focusing on specific targets to continually upwards progress, you kill a bit of this and that and feel you deserve that experience any time you like without putting in the effort to improve and grow.

Nemce will remember me making these gripes years ago in Class R forums-we lose sight of the significance of the carrot when the stick is snapped in two and a short stub is handed over with a carrot in trex arms reach.

[Baler]

Link didnt work, attached a smaller version of the file

Check which guild those CSG are from.

[Baler]

Consider Phinny. Scheduled raiding has been a blessing.

go fuck yourself and stop posting on P99 forums. You don't play here because Core BDA broke the P99 server rules. Your kind are not really welcome around here.
Get over yourself and your p99 addiction shit head.

[Triiz]

This guy really hates neckbeards for being just a "bystander".


This may come as a shock to you, but literally pretty much every non-neckbeard hates neckbeards. It's hardly a term of endearment.

And yes I'm a bystander as in I refuse to participate in the raid scene in the state that it's been since I began playing p99. I hold out hope that the raiding scene will change and the majority will win the day, thus I am rooting for the casuals. If it doesn't change, that's fine too it's Nillbog's server.

[arsenalpow]

This guy really hates neckbeards for being just a "bystander".

The problem is guilds dont want to slowly progress. They want everything bc they know they "could kill it" but when it comes to taking down a raid boss while others are contesting, all bets are off and they fold unwilling to try.

There are 1 hr locks on mobs - each time you secure one and suceed you gain a little bit of progress and knowledge but rather than focusing on specific targets to continually upwards progress, you kill a bit of this and that and feel you deserve that experience any time you like without putting in the effort to improve and grow.

Nemce will remember me making these gripes years ago in Class R forums-we lose sight of the carrot when the stick is snapped in two and a short stub is handed over with a carrot in trex arms reach.

Sure they gain little bits of progress and knowledge but they also have to sink resources/time into these gains against two well oiled machines that play EQ like it's their jobs. Eventually the little bits of progress stop coming or are so few and far between that the progressing guild stops progressing. This is what always happens. Plenty of guilds just said "fuck it" and found more sane shit to do. I took BDA to Phinny, a lot of people retired to Rustle because they already have most of their pixels, and dozens of other guilds just dissolved entirely because the p99 raid scene is absolutely fucking terrible.

There are not enough pixels for the amount of guilds on p99 that are able to do the content and the staff does not give two fucks about the casual player base. Vote with your feet you idiots. Stop banging your heads against this stupid fucking wall. Leaving all my cool stuff behind on p99 for Phinny was really hard, it was 5+ years of work, but scheduling raids with my friends made EQ actually fun. I traded all that stress for fun and I've never been happier with eq.

[Baler]

^Dude you don't play here,. fuck off.
And your goat.

[Tankdan]

I don't even play P99, but I logged into ToV yesterday and saw over half a dozen guilds having a great time, with virtually zero poopsocking required.

I hope GM staff do something ASAP, for the good of the server. Velious isn't new any more, heck the Sleeper aint even sleeping, it's time for some change!

[Metham]

This weekend is probably the best argument for a server split. Take 300+ raiders out of the mix and everyone's amazed that they get a better chance at content. It's a population problem, doesn't matter what guilds are at the top.

[Breaken]

This weekend is probably the best argument for a server split. Take 300+ raiders out of the mix and everyone's amazed that they get a better chance at content. It's a population problem, doesn't matter what guilds are at the top.

The fact that everyone worked together for one week is not surprising. See what it devolves into after a few months. We already know though.

I don't even play P99, but I logged into ToV yesterday and saw over half a dozen guilds having a great time, with virtually zero poopsocking required.

Poopsocking is created by the staff. Variance requires socking. Before variance, when it was first in force, that required socking. The only time socking is not needed is on full server spawns, whether from server crashes/patches or earthquakes.

Replace all weekly spawns with earthquakes and you should see these half dozen guilds having a great time. They proved this week (to no ones surprise) that they can kill these Velious targets. So, if all mobs were to spawn, they have plenty of options to go contest. I would expect a guild to go straight for Statue/AoW. I would expect another to go straight for Dain, KT, Yelinak, Zlandicar, CT, or any ToV dragon they choose to FTE.

Admittedly, ToV would be very crowded, but that would be the choice of the guild heading there. This would keep the competition aspect of the server, while still distributing mobs because one or two guilds cannot kill everything before the 6 or so others get theirs.

[Fasttimes]

The fact that everyone worked together for one week is not surprising. See what it devolves into after a few months. We already know though.



Poopsocking is created by the staff. Variance requires socking. Before variance, when it was first in force, that required socking. The only time socking is not needed is on full server spawns, whether from server crashes/patches or earthquakes.

Replace all weekly spawns with earthquakes and you should see these half dozen guilds having a great time. They proved this week (to no ones surprise) that they can kill these Velious targets. So, if all mobs were to spawn, they have plenty of options to go contest. I would expect a guild to go straight for Statue/AoW. I would expect another to go straight for Dain, KT, Yelinak, Zlandicar, CT, or any ToV dragon they choose to FTE.

Admittedly, ToV would be very crowded, but that would be the choice of the guild heading there. This would keep the competition aspect of the server, while still distributing mobs because one or two guilds cannot kill everything before the 6 or so others get theirs.

OR just do Awakened solo/FFA/aftermath Solo/Casual weekend with no A/A

[Daldaen]

I would imagine the biggest thing holding casual guilds back is also the scheduled raid vs. batphoned raid.

Knowing you've got Yelinak up and you can go after him at 7PM in your prime time zone. People will camp out in advance and log in for this is they know it's a guaranteed attempt.

But if you're aiming at a 5-8PM window where you're going to race, people aren't going to precamp out because many only have one toon. People also aren't really inclined to have a free window where they can instantly be made available for a raid when they'd like to do other things in EQ. Getting out of a Crypt or HS group at 6 PM when a raid mob spawns isn't exactly easy/natural for many of these players. I remember being in Sebilis one time when Trakanon spawned, 2 guys in the group instantly /quit out from TMO and IB then exploited their IP exemptions to log on their precamped 60s.

It wouldn't even dawn on many casuals to do this, let along bail on their group in a more respectful way. Many times that leaves the group hanging and totally cripples their ability to continue camping whatever they were camping.

Now if you wanted to leave every target up until 7PM and then race for a few targets using /random to signal the start, ignoring all the tracking nonsense I'm sure you could get some interested.

[Phantasm]

The best part about this is that absolutely nothing will change. Like literally nothing.

Have had the same issue for as long as i can remember. Instead of one guild doing whatever necessary for content you now have two.

I have no problem with invested time = reward, but dont pretend the 1400 people other than A/A are going to be happy about it

[Breaken]

Set the earthquake on a 16 hour variance, and have a serverwide emote announcing the respawn an hour in advance. This gives all raiders time to batphone and mobilize. They can get to the mob they plan to kill first, see the competition at said mob, and decide if they want to compete against that raid or move to another.

You would have to require raids to stay at zone in though. Thinking specific for ToV, Kael races, but for CT, you would not zone in until the earthquake, and Skyshrine, you cannot start cothing until the earthquake, etc.

[Erati]

This may come as a shock to you, but literally pretty much every non-neckbeard hates neckbeards. It's hardly a term of endearment.

And yes I'm a bystander as in I refuse to participate in the raid scene in the state that it's been since I began playing p99. I hold out hope that the raiding scene will change and the majority will win the day, thus I am rooting for the casuals. If it doesn't change, that's fine too it's Nillbog's server.

This may come as a shock to you but even within the 'neckbeard' guilds there are actually probably more casual players than you would ever imagine.

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into. Point being, the core of the vast majority of guilds here are very much casual by nature.

The hardcore guilds were just built to handle the demands of a batphone raid any time of the day ( over time, see carrot/stick analogy ). Granted some hours of the day are easier to do this than others but that's some of the fun - you literally never know who is logging in and what kind of raid force make up you may have. This is why alts are geared etc etc etc etc.

Point being, Rome wasn't built in a day. I saw hundreds of Everquest raiders log on for now nearly Day 2 of hours upon hours of straight raiding. I find it hard to believe, esp now when alliances span most active guilds and around the globe, that there couldnt be methods to play within the rules that are established for FTE. I get Chest's point, no one wants to make Everquest their job and that's how the hardcores butter their bread. Sure, casuals can progress but at what cost he will argue. My argument though is the structure is there for very cushiony progression and frequent casual contesting of any spawn in the game - you just have to CONTROL YOURSELF.

This has always been a major issue and something that kept Taken out of class C for so long way back when. Its that self control that so many raiders lack makes progress feel unobtainable bc guilds view their success on uncontested kills as a doctrine to have those experiences over and over again without the effort. Rather than enjoying the climb up the mountain, we want to take the elevator to the top ( it is a 18 year old mountain after all, I was already up it a few times in my youth ). There is nothing stopping guilds from focusing on small aspects of the contested target experience while gaining the skills needed to beat A/A to anything out there. Once you get yellow text on a mob - its yours for an hour. Ignore the shit happening around you and focus on getting that mob into camp, and if thats the issue that prevents you from succeeding well you spend time honing on how to do ABC better for the next time. A/A did not appear overnight- but that's whats great about classic EQ, you build your empire. If A/A were to poof suddenly, there would just simply be a new alpha dog on the top of the food chain.

Which brings us to the core issue - what is next? Once you killed something in hardcore land, the primary objective becomes 'how can we kill this faster' and 'with less people'. That is where the focus for up and coming guilds should be ( especially within their own individual structures ) rather than focusing on how to get mobs rotated to them more often. Yes Velious has been out a year now and not going anywhere but does that mean you just flip the switch to rotate everything? Rotations are sloppy and not every entity should belong in them leading to eventual Class R forum arguments about allotted time and protocols. There will always always always be rulelawyers focused on these mobs - rotations will not get rid of skype chats agreements.

Alas, all this has been an issue from the beginning of time on this server and rule changes always seem to be something that is inevitable when enough people speak out.

/soapbox hehe

[Erati]

Set the earthquake on a 16 hour variance, and have a serverwide emote announcing the respawn an hour in advance. This gives all raiders time to batphone and mobilize. They can get to the mob they plan to kill first, see the competition at said mob, and decide if they want to compete against that raid or move to another.

You would have to require raids to stay at zone in though. Thinking specific for ToV, Kael races, but for CT, you would not zone in until the earthquake, and Skyshrine, you cannot start cothing until the earthquake, etc.

this is the best solution and has been asked for many times - everyone wants to mobilize race which is the best and most fun part of Earthquakes.

Druids/Wizards become useful and literally your entire guild has to come together moving mountains. Its really great and would spread targets around.

If everything is up at once, A/A can only kill 1 mob at a time. If you have 5-8 raid capable entities running around engaging bosses that means more importance is placed on efficiency and executing rather than how much time is left in our lock.

[Ravager]

Make every guild Class R. Make every mob class R. If a mob is left up 6 hours it goes FFA and locked out guilds can get it. There'll still be "competition", the top guilds will still get the majority of the pixels, but lockouts will make the barrier to raiding less ridiculous. Give everyone who doesn't like it the option for a one way /movechar to red.

[bigjerry]

This may come as a shock to you but even within the 'neckbeard' guilds there are actually probably more casual players than you would ever imagine.

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into. Point being, the core of the vast majority of guilds here are very much casual by nature.

The hardcore guilds were just built to handle the demands of a batphone raid any time of the day ( over time, see carrot/stick analogy ). Granted some hours of the day are easier to do this than others but that's some of the fun - you literally never know who is logging in and what kind of raid force make up you may have. This is why alts are geared etc etc etc etc.

Point being, Rome wasn't built in a day. I saw hundreds of Everquest raiders log on for now nearly Day 2 of hours upon hours of straight raiding. I find it hard to believe, esp now when alliances span most active guilds and around the globe, that there couldnt be methods to play within the rules that are established for FTE. I get Chest's point, no one wants to make Everquest their job and that's how the hardcores butter their bread. Sure, casuals can progress but at what cost he will argue. My argument though is the structure is there for very cushiony progression and frequent casual contesting of any spawn in the game - you just have to CONTROL YOURSELF.

This has always been a major issue and something that kept Taken out of class C for so long way back when. Its that self control that so many raiders lack makes progress feel unobtainable bc guilds view their success on uncontested kills as a doctrine to have those experiences over and over again without the effort. Rather than enjoying the climb up the mountain, we want to take the elevator to the top ( it is a 18 year old mountain after all, I was already up it a few times in my youth ). There is nothing stopping guilds from focusing on small aspects of the contested target experience while gaining the skills needed to beat A/A to anything out there. Once you get yellow text on a mob - its yours for an hour. Ignore the shit happening around you and focus on getting that mob into camp, and if thats the issue that prevents you from succeeding well you spend time honing on how to do ABC better for the next time. A/A did not appear overnight- but that's whats great about classic EQ, you build your empire. If A/A were to poof suddenly, there would just simply be a new alpha dog on the top of the food chain.

Which brings us to the core issue - what is next? Once you killed something in hardcore land, the primary objective becomes 'how can we kill this faster' and 'with less people'. That is where the focus for up and coming guilds should be ( especially within their own individual structures ) rather than focusing on how to get mobs rotated to them more often. Yes Velious has been out a year now and not going anywhere but does that mean you just flip the switch to rotate everything? Rotations are sloppy and not every entity should belong in them leading to eventual Class R forum arguments about allotted time and protocols. There will always always always be rulelawyers focused on these mobs - rotations will not get rid of skype chats agreements.

Alas, all this has been an issue from the beginning of time on this server and rule changes always seem to be something that is inevitable when enough people speak out.

/soapbox hehe

smart post thank you!

[Tarskin]

I can see an earthquake with variance, as opposed to individual mobs spawning, having a good effect on the raid scene as there will be so many targets up at the same time that every guild that wants something can aim for something (assuming that standard 1 hour fte rules apply).

[Phantasm]

I really think that reduced variance and increased repops would help A LOT. Why these simple changes havent been implemented is beyond me. Repops simulated every 2 weeks with a 3 day variance on repop weeks. Mob timers stay close forever, active timezones and days change, and decreased variance lowers the supposed ceiling.

If anything try these changes before implementing rotations, alternaye servers, randoming lol.

But these suggestions arent new, nor will they be heeded. Let the rats fight for cheese every week

[Ravager]

But these suggestions arent new, nor will they be heeded. Let the rats fight for cheese every week
This is the only expected outcome.

[Fasttimes]

IF they removed variance, did bunch of earthquakes, etc.. all that would change is A/A would gear alts faster.

[Erati]

IF they removed variance, did bunch of earthquakes, etc.. all that would change is A/A would gear alts faster.

Stabatani is thirsty.

:)

[ArumTP]

This weekend is probably the best argument for a server split. Take 300+ raiders out of the mix and everyone's amazed that they get a better chance at content. It's a population problem, doesn't matter what guilds are at the top.


"Taking out the top" only results in the tops splitting from each other or an entirely new top

[Necrostoner]

IF they removed variance, did bunch of earthquakes, etc.. all that would change is A/A would gear alts faster.

You're an idiot.

[Fasttimes]

You're an idiot.

im not, ive been on both ends and woke the sleeper

[nyclin]

IF they removed variance, did bunch of earthquakes, etc.. all that would change is A/A would gear alts faster.

not really, can't be everywhere during a quake

targets like doze, eashen, vulak, etc. would obviously be prioritized but there's lots of opportunity for guilds not named A/A to score targets during quakes

[Fasttimes]

not really, can't be everywhere during a quake

targets like doze, eashen, vulak, etc. would obviously be prioritized but there's lots of opportunity for guilds not named A/A to score targets during quakes

some, but left overs, they mobilize fast enough and can snap kill at a greater rate. we wouldnt be totally left out, but would have 1-2 mobs. max compared to 10

[Rygar]

We're getting into some big time custom content / non-classic fixes here, but maybe I'll throw my 2 cents in...

Obviously there is a server population issue, as more guilds are capable of dropping big name targets, top guilds don't want to do rotations. I think what you need is more options to target.

I'm not very familiar with NToV mobs, but it seems like no one 'fights' there, it is just pulling the big names out to exit or zone in. Why not make trash capable of dropping certain dragon loots and other goodies? I'm not talking Vulak pieces or BiS pieces, but stuff that is obviously a juicy upgrade to casuals (yet neckbeards wouldn't waste their DKP on it). Make it a rare drop off the trash, and make uncommon drops a mix of Unadorned or Ancient armor pieces (SS or Kael armor quests). Can even make some mobs placeholders for Minis like in the Planes.

The only mobs I heard can make rare drops like this are flurry drakes, but I hear they are non-classic and most people don't bother pulling them because of their difficulty.

Maybe you will have the smaller guys crawling through here more and farming the zone a bit. Can also help prevent 'train up and train down' zone pulls, because you can't train people in the zone.

Obviously this will mess with your CoV faction, but it would be cool to see more guilds get on Kael faction instead of just Skyshrine / Thurg for HoT / Arena farming. Should reduce Sontalak's difficulty to make it more classic as well, can help open more Sleeper's keys in the long run.

Another issue with this is you'd just put all your eggs in one basket for loot (ToV). You could expand this to more zones, such as VP (gotta fix spawn rate there though), Sleepers Tomb, Sirens Grotto, and Dragon Necropolis (hell, even those beastly golems in Velks).

I was also shocked to see only 2 pieces of loot drop on some dragon kills, no idea it was that bad. If 4-8 pieces dropped (again, not all BiS stuff, but stuff for alts / newer members to bid on) maybe... just maybe, some rotation agreements can be made between a few guilds (doubt it would be all).

Having 2,000 people zero in on 30 targets is just never going to work.

As far as what GMs can do, make a decree that if you compete for Velious raid targets, you cannot kill old world / Kunark dragons (except VP). This would include making level 52s for Vox / Naggy, CT and Draco, Hate Minis, etc. Would need to be enforced if they create some kind of 'alt guild' with cross platform DKP (perhaps IP checks or something). Some exceptions for epics would probably have to be made, else maybe some agreement can be made between old world / kunark guilds (such as white scale for bard epic for loot rights on a velious dragon).

Can also increase bans. 10 day seems weak in my opinion, losing a few cycles only. 30-day minimum.

Variance can also be removed or greatly decreased, as seems to be the consensus from most people.

Hopefully that helps thin the top out by adding more drop options. I welcome all criticism as to how horrible this is!

[fiveeauxfour]

Can we have the option at char creation to get full bis characters?

[Breaken]

some, but left overs, they mobilize fast enough and can snap kill at a greater rate. we wouldnt be totally left out, but would have 1-2 mobs. max compared to 10

So, the complaint isn't that you aren't getting mobs, but that you aren't getting enough or the right ones... Got it.

An earthquake, at least if implemented with a warning, would allow you to pick a priority target. If you choose one that is highly contested, that is your gamble. If you can only secure "1-2" mobs, maybe next time you will do better. Maybe not.

[Fasttimes]

So, the complaint isn't that you aren't getting mobs, but that you aren't getting enough or the right ones... Got it.

An earthquake, at least if implemented with a warning, would allow you to pick a priority target. If you choose one that is highly contested, that is your gamble. If you can only secure "1-2" mobs, maybe next time you will do better. Maybe not.

im just stating 1 weekend out the month where we do this again, doesnt hurt anyone but A/A pixel intake and pride.

[Erati]

Can also increase bans. 10 day seems weak in my opinion, losing a few cycles only. 30-day minimum.


This is why random jury system is pretty fucked up - youll poll from people who have ingrained innate bias towards another group and allow their predetrmined emotions to filter into the case without even looking at the evidence.

If you think a 30 day raid ban for a free game is 'fair' for a minimum punishment here taking into consideration most these violations are made up after examining hours of recorded Everquest raiding footage frame by frame, then you need to adjust your morale compass.

10 Day blanket raid ban has been the harshest penalty to date and its insane this is not enough blood for the casuals lol

[Breaken]

Can also increase bans. 10 day seems weak in my opinion, losing a few cycles only. 30-day minimum.

Should we count the number of raid infractions that happened over the past few days? You act like A/A are the only ones who make mistakes. On the contrary, they are the only ones to petition each other.

[Erati]

im just stating 1 weekend out the month where we do this again, doesnt hurt anyone but A/A pixel intake and pride.

Does the NBA ask Lebron to take some nights off so the Cav's opponents can have a better chance at winning once in a while?

You want the best product on the court - dont punish A/A because they chose to progress their guilds to the point of 24/7 contesting of spawns.

If lockouts,bag limits etc need to be used - thats their choice but to just cut them out of 1 weekend each month sounds pretty dumb. You would see those players start to seed their alts into other guilds just for the purpose of raiding when they are 'not allowed' on their professional toons lol.

[Bugaman]

Well, after greatly enjoying my time on P99 over this last weekend I figured I better come here and read the posts. Some of you know me, others Im sure don't have a clue who the hell I am or why they should even care about my opinion, I barely come to the Forums these days since they are generally toxic and cause division in our community via the RnFs section but I've been playing toons on P99 since Dec 2009 so I thought of it as my responsibility to come and absorb this post by reading everything, then give my two cents.

This weekend was a huge success for the community, content was even given out to guilds who weren't initially involved in the split, for those who think it was just 3 guilds controlling all the content you are wrong. CSG is an alliance of 3 guilds, FoH actually repesents Venerate and Anonymous as well on that list and Rustle stands alone but somtimes brings Infernus along for the ride and Big ups to them for doing so I say!

I've been in big / top guilds and competed here, tracked mobs and poopsocked for hours on end, sure there is a thrill in downing content as soon as it pops, being there first and claiming all the pixels for your guild, I can't deny that as someone who has partaken. However I don't think any of that can outweigh just hanging out and having fun with your friends, which is what happened this weekend for everyone in the endgame community with the exemption of our banned friends. Thats right, I call alot of A / A my friends.

If you don't think what happened this weekend was in the best interest of the server and our community I'm just befuddled by that train of thought, maybe I've been on P99 too long but its the only MMOrpg I want to play and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way. In short, I really don't understand why we can't make the server a better place where people without a competition mentality can enjoy the raid scene too.

Either way, see you at ToV next weekend mates ;D

[nyclin]

taking into consideration most these violations are made up after examining hours of recorded Everquest raiding footage frame by frame

this is really why we need publicly view-able raid petitions - gets a lot harder to make shitty disingenuous claims when those claims and the evidence backing them are out in the open

making raid petitions public would go a long way toward removing some of the toxxicity in the raid scene

[Fasttimes]

Does the NBA ask Lebron to take some nights off so the Cav's opponents can have a better chance at winning once in a while?

You want the best product on the court - dont punish A/A because they chose to progress their guilds to the point of 24/7 contesting of spawns.

If lockouts,bag limits etc need to be used - thats their choice but to just cut them out of 1 weekend each month sounds pretty dumb. You would see those players start to seed their alts into those guilds just for the purpose of raiding when they are 'not allowed' on their professional toons lol.

analogies is cool and all, but its really not that weird of a thing to think about if your on the outside. then again no amount of reasoning will let the inside get that. i still enjoy ya as a friend tho :0

[Erati]

analogies is cool and all, but its really not that weird of a thing to think about if your on the outside. then again no amount of reasoning will let the inside get that. i still enjoy ya as a friend tho :0

this weekend has been highly enjoyable to see guilds from all over take on content they didnt know they could succeed at and never really had the opportunity to learn - fully agree.

anyone who thinks A/A is sitting around gritting our teeth and pounding sand after each corpse is linked is way off base...

There is probably a middle ground somewhere where the two extremes co-exist bc it just seems laughable that making this server 'non competative' is what the vast majority want bc there will always be a tiny sense of selfishness within each and every entity we have here. They just have to realize the breaking points.

[Fasttimes]

this weekend has been highly enjoyable to see guilds from all over take on content they didnt know they could succeed at and never really had the opportunity to learn - fully agree.

anyone who thinks A/A is sitting around gritting our teeth and pounding sand after each corpse is linked is way off base...

There is probably a middle ground somewhere where the two extremes co-exist bc it just seems laughable that making this server 'non competative' is what the vast majority want bc there will always be a tiny sense of selfishness within each and every entity we have here. They just have to realize the breaking points.

You can be greedy and non unhealthy tho with make believe competition and 4am batphones. you can also be fair and meet in the middle. there is no middle atm tho.

[Maner]

This weekend has done a lot to show just how disconnected a/a is from the rest of us. Do you realize that outside of a/a very few people have seen all of these mobs? I dont think you do.

You're seeing these 120+ zerg forces because the content has been monopolized since launch by a handful of players so there's a backed up demand, plus players not in a/a flat out arent as prepared for these encounters. Dont have the gear or the experience. The more the merrier imo as long as the server isnt crashing.

Nobody wants to race for anything. Its awful. How anyone can consider that to be an acceptable final solution to a problem is beyond my comprehension. You want me to stand, looking at a wall, spamming a pet macro, for 3-4 hours, against 10 other people? You think a brand new guild is going to provide a dozen people, working in shifts, to race against you for two months until they learn how to compete?** There is no reward high enough for FTE getters to pay them back for the work they are doing.


**Even if we learn to compete history shows it wont be fair. look back at the past year's raid suspensions. We're competing against people who get suspended several times a year for cheating.

Kinda ironic since all CSG wanted was to dungeon crawl, they had the opportunity to do it yesterday but even they couldn't get their 120+ people to commit to crawling. Considering that the racing implementation was directly because of CSG bitching about Cory pulling it's kinda funny that even the vocal, yet uninformed, CSG members are still complaining about racing. And you're not competeing, CSG has still never bothered to try and compete lol.

[Ravager]

Can we have the option at char creation to get full bis characters?
Clearly this is what everyone is arguing for and the inevitable conclusion. You saved everyone here and staff alike a great deal of time by cutting right to it. Thank you for your insightful suggestion.

[Llodd]

Posted this elsewhere, posting it agian, cuz i think it would be fun and cater to all sorts.

So many 'solutions'. Soooo the ultimate solution = use all the solutions !

Every 3 months <or insert arbitrary number here> the raid scene changes:

Phase 1 : Race for FTE (current rules)
Phase 2 : DPS battle, No FTE - you get xp you get the loot
Phase 3 : Fighting to mobs on spawn spot only (remember leapfroggin? classic as fuck)
Phase 4 : Full on no CSR PvP Train wars (gms get a break after the insane lawyering from 1,2&3)
Phase 5 : Rotations (gms get a another break after the insane lawyering from 1,2&3)

No need for the silly long variance we currently have either. Win win !

ps fuck mage fte, that shits dumber than the rest of the dumb shit.

[fiveeauxfour]

Should we count the number of raid infractions that happened over the past few days? You act like A/A are the only ones who make mistakes. On the contrary, they are the only ones to petition each other.

you're also right about variance quakes.

[bigjerry]

Well, after greatly enjoying my time on P99 over this last weekend I figured I better come here and read the posts. Some of you know me, others Im sure don't have a clue who the hell I am or why they should even care about my opinion, I barely come to the Forums these days since they are generally toxic and cause division in our community via the RnFs section but I've been playing toons on P99 since Dec 2009 so I thought of it as my responsibility to come and absorb this post by reading everything, then give my two cents.

This weekend was a huge success for the community, content was even given out to guilds who weren't initially involved in the split, for those who think it was just 3 guilds controlling all the content you are wrong. CSG is an alliance of 3 guilds, FoH actually repesents Venerate and Anonymous as well on that list and Rustle stands alone but somtimes brings Infernus along for the ride and Big ups to them for doing so I say!

I've been in big / top guilds and competed here, tracked mobs and poopsocked for hours on end, sure there is a thrill in downing content as soon as it pops, being there first and claiming all the pixels for your guild, I can't deny that as someone who has partaken. However I don't think any of that can outweigh just hanging out and having fun with your friends, which is what happened this weekend for everyone in the endgame community with the exemption of our banned friends. Thats right, I call alot of A / A my friends.

If you don't think what happened this weekend was in the best interest of the server and our community I'm just befuddled by that train of thought, maybe I've been on P99 too long but its the only MMOrpg I want to play and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way. In short, I really don't understand why we can't make the server a better place where people without a competition mentality can enjoy the raid scene too.

Either way, see you at ToV next weekend mates ;D

Agreed!

[spanky_kc]

All of these people crying for a server split, go play Phinny.

[titanshub]

Well, after greatly enjoying my time on P99 over this last weekend I figured I better come here and read the posts. Some of you know me, others Im sure don't have a clue who the hell I am or why they should even care about my opinion, I barely come to the Forums these days since they are generally toxic and cause division in our community via the RnFs section but I've been playing toons on P99 since Dec 2009 so I thought of it as my responsibility to come and absorb this post by reading everything, then give my two cents.

This weekend was a huge success for the community, content was even given out to guilds who weren't initially involved in the split, for those who think it was just 3 guilds controlling all the content you are wrong. CSG is an alliance of 3 guilds, FoH actually repesents Venerate and Anonymous as well on that list and Rustle stands alone but somtimes brings Infernus along for the ride and Big ups to them for doing so I say!

I've been in big / top guilds and competed here, tracked mobs and poopsocked for hours on end, sure there is a thrill in downing content as soon as it pops, being there first and claiming all the pixels for your guild, I can't deny that as someone who has partaken. However I don't think any of that can outweigh just hanging out and having fun with your friends, which is what happened this weekend for everyone in the endgame community with the exemption of our banned friends. Thats right, I call alot of A / A my friends.

If you don't think what happened this weekend was in the best interest of the server and our community I'm just befuddled by that train of thought, maybe I've been on P99 too long but its the only MMOrpg I want to play and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way. In short, I really don't understand why we can't make the server a better place where people without a competition mentality can enjoy the raid scene too.

Either way, see you at ToV next weekend mates ;D

Well said!

[Erati]

All of these people crying for a server split, go play Phinny.

Time to make </A/>

[Mortiis]

This is why random jury system is pretty fucked up - youll poll from people who have ingrained innate bias towards another group and allow their predetrmined emotions to filter into the case without even looking at the evidence.

If you think a 30 day raid ban for a free game is 'fair' for a minimum punishment here taking into consideration most these violations are made up after examining hours of recorded Everquest raiding footage frame by frame, then you need to adjust your morale compass.

10 Day blanket raid ban has been the harshest penalty to date and its insane this is not enough blood for the casuals lol

Agreed. However without knowing the full story or history of the p99 raid scene or how it's handled for anyone inquiring on what's 'in store' for them, all one has to do is just read guild and raid discussion. That's it. (RNF is just pure work comedy gold) It's the first thing I did. Nothing but raid suspension, more rule clarifications/verifications, surrendering, and conceding all from the same frequent flyers every time, all the time.

I understand the spirit of competition, we all do. No one is looking for handouts. You try, you fail, you learn. But after this weekends outcome, how in the fuck has there not been some sort of rotation? Not every guild can do ToV, some probably don't give a rats ass. I just don't understand the level of absurdity. I really don't.

[colicab]

Getsome doing gods work. Make P99 great again.

[Thulack]

Detecting some bad feeling among the status quo raiders.

What 3 guilds are you thinking of?

I was thinking of...

Rustle
Europa
Omni
Azure Guard
Venerate
Fires of Heaven
Kittens
Paradox


"3 guilds" lol

I saw 3 "guilds" on the list. I guess CSG is a alliance of a bunch of guilds. Gotcha. And i havent raided in about 3 years now so no butthurt from me. I just find it funny that every time the major guilds get suspended everyone calls p99 the best time ever but nothing ever changes. I mean we all saw how well rotations worked years ago. And its the community that makes P99 the way it is not the dev's.

[Mythanor]

Kinda ironic since all CSG wanted was to dungeon crawl, they had the opportunity to do it yesterday but even they couldn't get their 120+ people to commit to crawling. Considering that the racing implementation was directly because of CSG bitching about Cory pulling it's kinda funny that even the vocal, yet uninformed, CSG members are still complaining about racing. And you're not competeing, CSG has still never bothered to try and compete lol.

How convienent of you to forget the deal made with the suspende A/ A to not crawl, and kill ASAP, so not to spread out timers, while moaning about dungeon crawling..... good stuff this, watching A/ A members use every excuse in the book to justify their pathetic chase for pixels.

[Joyelle]

Every guild can do ToV. The problem is only 2 guilds show up for it. You seriously cannot complain about all the spawns spawns being oligopolized when you refuse to even enter the market.

[colicab]

Every guild can do ToV. The problem is only 2 guilds show up for it. You seriously cannot complain about all the spawns spawns being oligopolized when you refuse to even enter the market.

From the looks of it, that is because only 2 guilds have enough people to sacrifice their work/sleep schedules in order to track.

Sounds to me like this server needs the class system back. Maybe this Class R can truly cooperate unlike the old Class R that emulated Class C.

PS. Love Ya Halliel! <3

[Joyelle]

From the looks of it, that is because only 2 guilds have enough people to sacrifice their work/sleep schedules in order to track.

Sounds to me like this server needs the class system back. Maybe this Class R can truly cooperate unlike the old Class R that emulated Class C.

PS. Love Ya Halliel! <3

We do have Euros/Asians/Aussies, why do you guys think that everyone in A/A is a basement dwelling American?

[colicab]

1-2 people is enough to track/fte vulak, With a combined size that is larger then BOTH awakened and aftermaths numbers I am sure they can do this they are just unwilling.

Absolutely, they are unwilling to play the game the way you guys play because to them, and the server they came from, that behavior is not "classic". You don't have to defend it, there are two sides to the coin and that can be accommodated for with the Class system.

[Fasttimes]

Ya that worked out super well last time. Kappa

well taken is your guild now and bda is on phinny it might.

[colicab]

well taken is your guild now and bda is on phinny it might.

Definitely goes back to my point that the old Class R emulated Class C. Perhaps this time the current Class R could do it right?

[Maner]

How convienent of you to forget the deal made with the suspende A/ A to not crawl, and kill ASAP, so not to spread out timers, while moaning about dungeon crawling..... good stuff this, watching A/ A members use every excuse in the book to justify their pathetic chase for pixels.

you would have a point if CSG didnt wipe multiple times to vulak and then decide to skip it until the next day, spreading out the windows. with the 150+ people CSG brought, clearing to their targets in ntov would have taken a few hours which is as long as they spent wiping to vulak anyway.

So you didnt even live up to the agreement to not spread out timers lol

Absolutely, they are unwilling to play the game the way you guys play because to them, and the server they came from, that behavior is not "classic". You don't have to defend it, there are two sides to the coin and that can be accommodated for with the Class system.

The irony here is that the current racing crap is directly due to CSG complaining about how raiding was being done. Yet now they still arent willing to put forth the effort and compete...

[Ravager]

Definitely goes back to my point that the old Class R emulated Class C. Perhaps this time the current Class R could do it right?
Depends on what you let class R guilds get away with. 3 guilds holding 3 individual rotation slots but teaming up on every mob they couldn't handle on their own makes for a very large and somewhat unfair rotation. Without reasonable requirements to hold a rotation slot, the rotation will inevitably collapse, even without BDA on the server.

History has a way of repeating itself on this server.

[Metalopolis]

All comes back to 5 years of Chardok PLing in Kunark. These greedy hogs gotta get their 5th and 6th level 53 alt all dolled up in NToV gear before they're gonna even consider lettin' anyone else get their main geared out.

[Maner]

All comes back to 5 years of Chardok PLing in Kunark. These greedy hogs gotta get their 5th and 6th level 53 alt all dolled up in NToV gear before they're gonna even consider lettin' anyone else get their main geared out.

Been playing for almost 2 years now, never super hard core, and i have 4 level 60s. All of which i leveled and never used the chardok PL circus. Leveling doesnt take as long as people make it out to be and once you have 1 getting more is super easy. Dont blame 5 years of chardok for everything.

[Ravager]

5 years of Chardok certainly didn't help anything though.

[Utmost]

Fun Sunday! Just wanted to chime in on crawling NToV. I'm sure any of the guilds that were enjoying ToV this weekend would love to crawl through north and fight the baddies, but I think that is really only practical if said force was left alone in there.

There was a lot of work put into sharing these mobs and scheduling which resulted in the need for multiple things/pulls going on at once or soon after each other. That made it necessary to train pull from what I could tell. If any one of these entities showed up to ToV on their "week" or "turn" unhindered by pressure to succeed or threats of concession I'd wager they would absolutely crawl around to the mobs and fight to each named.

Divinity itself used to crawl through ntov to kill flurries and it was really swell. Once we even got a named! But more often we would simply get trained or harassed to move because a lord or lady would pop and lust was close to satiation. I can really imagine how great it would have been to romp through there with a full spawn. I'm sure we would only succeed in killing a handful in a given raid, but it would be glorious to be sure. This of course if we could kill Aary to gain entry.

I think this is really what guilds are after. Give me some time in a zone with my elfpals without a sabre to my neck and you can go with your pals at a later time.

[Danth]

Without reasonable requirements to hold a rotation slot

Yes, reasonable, like demanding that a weak little guild shows it can defeat the toughest opponent on the rotation at any hour of the day just to be put on the list for the weakest target. That's totally reasonable and in no way is designed simply to lock out as many competitors as possible. Really.

I concur with the alternate opinion: There is no satisfying the pixel sickness, and if you eliminate the present top guilds and players from P99, the number 2's will simply step up and become equivalent within a very short time.

Danth

[Metalopolis]

Been playing for almost 2 years now, never super hard core, and i have 4 level 60s. All of which i leveled and never used the chardok PL circus. Leveling doesnt take as long as people make it out to be and once you have 1 getting more is super easy. Dont blame 5 years of chardok for everything.

Hmmm....not sure I've "blamed 5 years of Chardok" for anything else, actually.

[Ravager]

Yes, reasonable, like demanding that a weak little guild shows it can defeat the toughest opponent on the rotation at any hour of the day just to be put on the list for the weakest target. That's totally reasonable and in no way is designed simply to lock out as many competitors as possible. Really.

I concur with the alternate opinion: There is no satisfying the pixel sickness, and if you eliminate the present top guilds and players from P99, the number 2's will simply step up and become equivalent within a very short time.

Danth
I wasn't intending to dredge up these arguments again. There's more than enough if you want to look them up and I've said all I cared to say on it. It doesn't invalidate my point that at some point it will collapse under its own weight even without a BDA scapegoat.

Rotations worked on live because there was some kind of GM enforcement on the servers that had them AND because there were multiple servers for those who wanted to raid to choose from.

[Danth]

Actually, I agree. That discussion's pointless, and I agree that such agreements are indeed destined to fail in this environment--namely, without GM enforcement, as you say.

Least there can be *some* agreement on this board!

Danth

[Utmost]

Sounds like instanced raiding to me, Something you can find on plenty of other servers.

No, that would be all going at the same time. Like the sinks at Lambeau on Sundays.

[bktroost]

I know everyone wants to pretend like this weeks spawns were super smooth and everyone was happy but that was not the case. Some guilds felt shafted by CSG/Rustle as they took the majority of the high tier mobs. This worked for 1 week but would 100% fall apart if you tried to do the same thing a few times, Hell one guild was about to just kill what they wanted because they felt they did not "get enough".


Not entirely true nor entirely false.

Infernus was left out of the initial meetings because of time zones and we legimitaley forgot in the 8 guild shuffle. So we immediately changed around our line up and gave infernus Dain and a couple other mobs, some in ToV North.

When they downed those with ease we realized they had a lot more horsepower than we thought and they ended up with juicer and harder targets. They had trouble with Lady M though and could not get her deaded so we again changed the rotation to trade in Jorlleag, if memory serves, so that they could get a dragon they could kill/pull. Tomorrow they will be attempting Lord Feshlak, another progression mob for them.

It's not about loot. It's about progression. Assigning CT to Anon and FoH and Venerate was definitely not in the "me,me,me" pixel mindset for CSG. The whole list was in the mindset of progressing and challenge ourselves according to our places in progression.

[bktroost]

Also, while the idea of continuing this model more than one week sounds awesome, the logistics of what we did this week could not be sustained over a long period of time.

CSG and Rustle didn't build a structure to last indefinitely with automated rotations and benchmarks of progression for new entries because we all know this week will come to an end. If we were to create a rotated class R structure like we once had we would need to return to the drawing board and redraft with more in mind than a finite set of spawns. We would need to consider more guilds than just those that are raiding today.

All doable. But just to be clear, not our intentions this week.

[Maner]

Not entirely true nor entirely false.

Infernus was left out of the initial meetings because of time zones and we legimitaley forgot in the 8 guild shuffle. So we immediately changed around our line up and gave infernus Dain and a couple other mobs, some in ToV North.

When they downed those with ease we realized they had a lot more horsepower than we thought and they ended up with juicer and harder targets. They had trouble with Lady M though and could not get her deaded so we again changed the rotation to trade in Jorlleag, if memory serves, so that they could get a dragon they could kill/pull. Tomorrow they will be attempting Lord Feshlak, another progression mob for them.

It's not about loot. It's about progression. Assigning CT to Anon and FoH and Venerate was definitely not in the "me,me,me" pixel mindset for CSG. The whole list was in the mindset of progressing and challenge ourselves according to our places in progression.

I think he was speaking more to a guild getting double doze and another taking eashen on the repop then deciding to split the rest, not to mention losing a vulak spawn

[bktroost]

Who got double Dozekar? There were 4 dozekars?

[RedXIII]

I have watched atleast 5 streamers on different guilds these past two days... and i can tell you that you guys stare at ToV entrance walls and LTK exit more then any of the called "hardcore guilds".

3 hours, not a single dragon pulled/killed and having a zerg force staring at walls. A+ right there.

Atleast a FTE team is like 3-6 people at most.

Different playstyles for sure. Hope you guys had fun.

[Swish]

At least they're getting a chance at some content they don't usually get a chance at. Fun or not.

[Maschenny]

I have watched atleast 5 streamers on different guilds these past two days... and i can tell you that you guys stare at ToV entrance walls and LTK exit more then any of the called "hardcore guilds".

3 hours, not a single dragon pulled/killed and having a zerg force staring at walls. A+ right there.

Atleast a FTE team is like 3-6 people at most.

Different playstyles for sure. Hope you guys had fun.

Hmm, ever afk in game before? Or stay in game to communicate? I'm betting the only person staring at a wall for three hours was you, through someone else's character no less.

[Vallanor]

I have watched atleast 5 streamers on different guilds these past two days... and i can tell you that you guys stare at ToV entrance walls and LTK exit more then any of the called "hardcore guilds".

3 hours, not a single dragon pulled/killed and having a zerg force staring at walls. A+ right there.

Atleast a FTE team is like 3-6 people at most.

Different playstyles for sure. Hope you guys had fun.

Waiting for your noob wizards and monks to learn to put a complicated pull together is pretty damn time consuming. The only reason anyone was really willing to put up with it was because it was new and exciting. If sitting in a corner waiting on a dragon was the new normal, no one would show up. It's not exactly a "playstyle" but you know that.

At least people could go make a sandwich, watch Netflix, let the dogs out, and just check back every few minutes to see if their dumbass wizard (not me, honest!) had figured out what they were doing yet. Racers have no such luxury. AFK and you lose.

[Cecily]

Here's my solution. A/A stop raiding for one week every month and let the rest of the server kill some things. It's simple and reasonable. LMK.

[fiveeauxfour]

Waiting for your noob wizards and monks to learn to put a complicated pull together is pretty damn time consuming.