Mage pet Reclaim / Resummon / out DPS Level 1-39 and 39+

[Auuken]

Given the 2011 exp pet patch 'pet does 50%+ it takes 50% of the xp':

I hear that post 39 it's best to chain summon pet and nuke at 1-5%.. or something like that

But i'm confused about 1-39, should I be trying to outdps my fire pet (easy at low levels since their dmg is mostly DS) OR should I be reclaiming and nuking?

Any advice is appreciated, i'm pretty confused on this one.

[Auuken]

For instance, currently at Blackburrow, i'll summon until I get a yellow con fire pet. After giving the elemental a dagger, I cast level 1 or 4 fire spell to pull. Pet quickly takes aggro. During this time I'm casting 1 and 4 fire spells to try to outdps pet.

Am I doing it right? lol i have no idea

[darkreap]

From my understanding, the DS doesn't count toward you or your pet's damage total. Try to add up how much damage your pet actually does from hits during a fight and just try to beat that number. Find out the % of how much damage you need to do to the mob and, in theory, this should be the number you try for each fight. Count the % the mobs health goes down every nuke and try to hit that total every fight. Say you need to do 35% of the mobs health to get full exp, count the % each nuke brings it down and try to get over that number. That being said, I don't have a mage on this sever....

[Jmcwrestling]

You'll have a better time chain petting from the beginning. At low levels you may find it good enough xp to just let the DS eat mobs alive but soon it'll yield better results to just chain pet. Always use the fire pet if applicable since the DS is always more powerful than any DS you can cast.

[Gustoo]

Yes sadly with the exp modifiers here you need to let your pet get murdered all the time as a mage. It's a bad deal for a class that already has serious solo crowd control problems, but thats how it is.

[Brontus]

The imposition of an experience penalty on pet classes was a very stupid and misguided decision on part of the original EQ dev team. I can't think of any good reasons why they would introduce such a silly mechanic.

If there are good reasons I'd like to hear them. Pet classes are already penalized enough with the mitigation of their core abilities to balance out the power of a pet.

In fact many times, due to bad pathing mechanics a pet will cause the owner to get needless aggro or aggro the group which results in player death and possible death to other group members.

Pets can't zone with their owners. Pets also die when their owners die unlike PC pets which do not die. Again, this is just more evidence how pet classes are unfairly penalized.

Getting the very best pet is a crap shoot. On various occasions it has taken my mage up to 15 mins of constant summoning to get the very best pet. That's valuable time I could be exping. Then I have to equip the pet with weapons and haste the pet. Oh and if your pet dies, you can kiss those weapons good bye. Yep, just another penalty.

Therefore the owner of the pet is already sufficiently and intrinsically penalized.

So what do pets do with this experience that they steal from their owners? Nothing at all.
The original EQ designers could have implemented some kind of temporary talent and ability system for pets to "level up" their skills but they did not.

A player should not be competing with his pet to see who can do the most damage. Pets stealing experience from their masters is just another bad "classic" EQ mechanic that is being reproduced here on P1999 that serves no real purpose but to irritate and frustrate players all in the name of authenticity.

[Swish]

Aim for 60% damage (count the mob's health before a nuke lands and after, and at least get 55%).

It's easier for a necro than a mage, I used to stick to the same dots on every mob, know I was doing about 55-60% so when a mob turned to flee I'd just let the dots run their course and let the pet finish it off.

[turbosilk]

The imposition of an experience penalty on pet classes was a very stupid and misguided decision on part of the original EQ dev team. I can't think of any good reasons why they would introduce such a silly mechanic.

If there are good reasons I'd like to hear them. Pet classes are already penalized enough with the mitigation of their core abilities to balance out the power of a pet.

In fact many times, due to bad pathing mechanics a pet will cause the owner to get needless aggro or aggro the group which results in player death and possible death to other group members.

Pets can't zone with their owners. Pets also die when their owners die unlike PC pets which do not die. Again, this is just more evidence how pet classes are unfairly penalized.

Getting the very best pet is a crap shoot. On various occasions it has taken my mage up to 15 mins of constant summoning to get the very best pet. That's valuable time I could be exping. Then I have to equip the pet with weapons and haste the pet. Oh and if your pet dies, you can kiss those weapons good bye. Yep, just another penalty.

Therefore the owner of the pet is already sufficiently and intrinsically penalized.

So what do pets do with this experience that they steal from their owners? Nothing at all.
The original EQ designers could have implemented some kind of temporary talent and ability system for pets to "level up" their skills but they did not.

A player should not be competing with his pet to see who can do the most damage. Pets stealing experience from their masters is just another bad "classic" EQ mechanic that is being reproduced here on P1999 that serves no real purpose but to irritate and frustrate players all in the name of authenticity.

Because this is supposed to be a game of dependency and socialness not a game of solo isolationism like live turned into. Same reason boxing isn't allowed. Group up no penalty easy fix.

[Vexenu]

The imposition of an experience penalty on pet classes was a very stupid and misguided decision on part of the original EQ dev team. I can't think of any good reasons why they would introduce such a silly mechanic.

If there are good reasons I'd like to hear them. Pet classes are already penalized enough with the mitigation of their core abilities to balance out the power of a pet.

In fact many times, due to bad pathing mechanics a pet will cause the owner to get needless aggro or aggro the group which results in player death and possible death to other group members.

Pets can't zone with their owners. Pets also die when their owners die unlike PC pets which do not die. Again, this is just more evidence how pet classes are unfairly penalized.

Getting the very best pet is a crap shoot. On various occasions it has taken my mage up to 15 mins of constant summoning to get the very best pet. That's valuable time I could be exping. Then I have to equip the pet with weapons and haste the pet. Oh and if your pet dies, you can kiss those weapons good bye. Yep, just another penalty.

Therefore the owner of the pet is already sufficiently and intrinsically penalized.

So what do pets do with this experience that they steal from their owners? Nothing at all.
The original EQ designers could have implemented some kind of temporary talent and ability system for pets to "level up" their skills but they did not.

A player should not be competing with his pet to see who can do the most damage. Pets stealing experience from their masters is just another bad "classic" EQ mechanic that is being reproduced here on P1999 that serves no real purpose but to irritate and frustrate players all in the name of authenticity.

But most of these are minor annoyances when compared to the power of the pets. And even if there was no pet XP penalty you'd still be re-summoning pets each mob for maximum solo XP (a focused 200 mana fire pet can solo blue mobs by itself up to 50 thanks to its DS). It makes no sense to bother with buffing, hasting and healing when you can just summon a fire pet that DSes itself, doesn't need haste (since most if it's damage is from the DS anyway) and doesn't need heals because you summon it with full HP.

Also, it's easy to lose sight of how powerful the pets are generally due to the mudflation on the server and the easy access to high ratio weapons. The damage that level 49 pets put out is absolutely crazy for the classic era, especially compared to the melee weapons of that era. Having your own tank, DPS and heals (through resummoning) makes the Mage a one-man group. There's an awful lot that the pets allow Mages to do that would make other classes green with envy. For example, it's stupidly easy to farm loads of plat with a Mage and requires zero gear to do so. And even with the supposedly awful pet XP nerf, Mages can still solo faster than almost every other class. And Summon companion is a great spell that nullifies most of the problems with pet pathing and agro if you use it well.

tl;dr Mages are great and the pet XP nerf doesn't really impact them nearly as much as you'd initially think.

[kotton05]

Yes sadly with the exp modifiers here you need to let your pet get murdered all the time as a mage. It's a bad deal for a class that already has serious solo crowd control problems, but thats how it is.

Root nets

[Brontus]

Because this is supposed to be a game of dependency and socialness not a game of solo isolationism like live turned into. Same reason boxing isn't allowed. Group up no penalty easy fix.

I agree 100% that EQ is a MMO primarily about grouping yet other classes have the ability to solo but only pet classes are penalized. Why is this?

Druids can solo quite effectively, so why aren't they being penalized for soloing? The same argument can be make for twinks, I see them in Oasis all the time and most of them refuse to group.

Personally, I hate soloing but in P1999 many players just refuse to group, so I solo not because I want to but because out of necessity. This has the effect of making pet classes who can solo more popular.

To this day, I have still not found a valid argument from SOE (Alan VanCouvering, Rich Waters) as to why there is a pet experience penalty.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

The imposition of an experience penalty on pet classes was a very stupid and misguided decision on part of the original EQ dev team. I can't think of any good reasons why they would introduce such a silly mechanic.

If there are good reasons I'd like to hear them. Pet classes are already penalized enough with the mitigation of their core abilities to balance out the power of a pet.

I started a mage on Red to farm and get the plat rolling in to twink other characters.

No other class can stay as naked as a mage and do so well so effortlessly.

My mage is nearly naked, cloth armor and a red robe for the look only. She summons her own dagger, ranged item, bags ( AMAZING BY THE WAY ), food and bandages.

She destroys seafuries at level 53. I literally sat there yesterday and killed seafuries at a constant pace. And she's naked.

Literally, all you need are spells and stones to summon a pet and you're soloing efficiently - naked.

She has farmed thousands and thousands of plat for me and is NAKED lol

[nectarprime]

I think changes like this were a (misguided) attempt in to knocking magicians/necros down a few notches, as noted by B4EQWASCOOL those classes don't have many of the same limitations that others do.

[Danth]

Druids can solo quite effectively, so why aren't they being penalized for soloing?

They were indeed penalized, just not effectively. The 33% penalty on damage over time spells when the target is moving but not fleeing was an attempt to penalize Druid solo power. This attempt failed because Druids simply chose to use other methods instead, much like pet classes did.

Expecting a valid response from Verant was touch and go....as far as game studios go that one seemed pretty inept. They made plenty of changes which made no sense, and class balance was never one of this game's strengths. Verant wasn't above nerfing (or buffing, hello Monks) classes simply because someone there disliked (or liked) them. The game is what it is, just take it for what it's worth.

Danth

[bktroost]

On monsters that don't summon there are only really two spells that are needed from 1-60. Pet summon (if not a DS pet them you need a DS spell too) and scar of sigil (or some such low mana mid damage nuke).

Make a pet, park it, move a bit away out of cast range, send pet, when the pet dies make a new pet and park it and move and pet attack and when the monster is in range it will grab it. If it is a smaller area or the mob is faster than run and you don't have velocity yet then you can bind at one side of your run path and gate when you get to the end of one path so the mob turns around to get hit by your pet a second time.

Bottom line, chain pets from the beginning if you want to do the solo thing.





Or just have a good experience and group.

[Auuken]

On monsters that don't summon there are only really two spells that are needed from 1-60. Pet summon (if not a DS pet them you need a DS spell too) and scar of sigil (or some such low mana mid damage nuke).

Make a pet, park it, move a bit away out of cast range, send pet, when the pet dies make a new pet and park it and move and pet attack and when the monster is in range it will grab it. If it is a smaller area or the mob is faster than run and you don't have velocity yet then you can bind at one side of your run path and gate when you get to the end of one path so the mob turns around to get hit by your pet a second time.

Bottom line, chain pets from the beginning if you want to do the solo thing.





Or just have a good experience and group.

That explanation was very helpful. Could you explain the basics of mage role in a group setting?

[Shodo]

Could you explain the basics of mage role in a group setting?

Keep DS up on tank (and anyone else that takes damage regularly if mana permits). Wait for tank to get some aggro, then send in your pet (make sure pet taunt is turned off). If you're using a high-level water pet (53+ ?), position it for back stabs. Earth pet can be very helpful if your tank is a warrior (since it lets them make use of the root aggro mechanics), but make sure you don't send it in while the tank is still moving the mob around.

If you find yourself with plenty of extra mana then feel free to throw in nukes when you get a chance, but your damage shield is generally going to deal more damage per mana spent.

[Auuken]

Keep DS up on tank (and anyone else that takes damage regularly if mana permits). Wait for tank to get some aggro, then send in your pet (make sure pet taunt is turned off). If you're using a high-level water pet (53+ ?), position it for back stabs. Earth pet can be very helpful if your tank is a warrior (since it lets them make use of the root aggro mechanics), but make sure you don't send it in while the tank is still moving the mob around.

If you find yourself with plenty of extra mana then feel free to throw in nukes when you get a chance, but your damage shield is generally going to deal more damage per mana spent.

Is mage fire DS the strongest? More than druid or whatever

[bktroost]

Is mage fire DS the strongest? More than druid or whatever

For a while. You got a threshold where, classically, fire pets DS went to 72pnts but Haynar unclasically changed the fire pet DS earlier in the time line so most of p99 history has been using an earth pet with a DS.

The DDD pet has a great DS for the level and is very good for off tanking. He cannot use weapons but has an AOE aggro spell which means he can off tank and be chain cast and quickly snap back the aggro. If you have root clickies it can be a great pet to grab up mobs in the side and keep them occupied.

When I was leveling in KC left I used to off tank 3 mobs with it and keep them rooted on my DDD pet. By the time the tank and dps finished their first mob the other 3 I was offtanking were down near 30% or so.

Secondly, when you hit 55 you should always know where the escape route is from your group. When things go down hill always send in a pet and run to the safe room and CoTH the cleric then run back in. Saving raids with a CoTH cleric makes you a hero.

But in most cases you water pet, turn off taunt and grab stun whips (damage mitigation) or life proc staves (extra dps) and DS. Making you a dps class.


Bottom line, don't be a wizard with a pet.

[Weaselblighter]

But in most cases you water pet, turn off taunt and grab stun whips (damage mitigation) or life proc staves (extra dps)

I've seen this referenced and never been able to figure out: is there a way to get these weapons back from a mage or necro pet when you're done with a session? Or do you just get extras and only use them for special occasions?

[Dreenk317]

I've seen this referenced and never been able to figure out: is there a way to get these weapons back from a mage or necro pet when you're done with a session? Or do you just get extras and only use them for special occasions?

I just think of them like peridots for clerics. It cost money to use your most effective spells, effectively. In this case, instead of 100 plat worth of peridots to buff the group. It's time spent farming/plat spent buying pet weapons so your pets can be more effective for the group. Because yes, when a summoned pet dies, everything on it poofs.

[Weaselblighter]

I just think of them like peridots for clerics. It cost money to use your most effective spells, effectively. In this case, instead of 100 plat worth of peridots to buff the group. It's time spent farming/plat spent buying pet weapons so your pets can be more effective for the group. Because yes, when a summoned pet dies, everything on it poofs.

That makes sense, thanks. Just making sure I wasn't missing something.

[bktroost]

That makes sense, thanks. Just making sure I wasn't missing something.

Nope it is gone. I keep a bag of whips and a bag of staves.

Which is why it really socks when a monk trains a group. Camping out for a mage is an incredible inconvenience. I wouldn't determine my pet load out until I saw how the monks were pulling and how well we could sustain mobs.

[Freakeo]

Just skimming over this thread. I'm a little noob but my question is if you are duo'ing like, a mage/necro, if the pet damage is split do you still get the 50%-? Thanks to anyone who answers this.

[bktroost]

Just skimming over this thread. I'm a little noob but my question is if you are duo'ing like, a mage/necro, if the pet damage is split do you still get the 50%-? Thanks to anyone who answers this.

A player has to do more than any other source.

If necro pet has done 24% and the mage pet does 25% and a player does 26% or more than they did more than any other npc source. Damage shields don't count towards this. It's better to think of damage shields as removing the maximum hp down rather than dealing damage as far as calculating for xp.

[bktroost]

Another way to explain the DS mechanic is if there was a mob with 100 hp and your damage shield did 97 points of damage to it, you hit the mob for 2 points and your pet hit it for 1 point then you'd get full xp. If the pet hit the mob for 2 points and you hit it for 1 point then you'd get 50% xp. If your DS did 96 points, necro pet does 1, mage pet does 1 and you hit it for 2 then you'd get full xp.

[bktroost]

The real question for the min maxer is whether or not it's better to let the pet do all the work at a camp that gives experience and just passively play getting the 50% consistently.

For instance, in TT the are ghosts that spawn in the crypts that are solo in their own cubbies. A mid 40s mage can give an earth pet life proc weapons and let it go to town. Park it on the spawn and leave the computer next to you while you work so your not afk. The pet is fully regened by the time the next one spawns and they do run despite being undead but they never reach another mob.

There are a few areas like that across Norrath with perfect conditions. You just cannot afk completely.

[Mygicmeen]

The imposition of an experience penalty on pet classes was a very stupid and misguided decision on part of the original EQ dev team. I can't think of any good reasons why they would introduce such a silly mechanic.

If there are good reasons I'd like to hear them. Pet classes are already penalized enough with the mitigation of their core abilities to balance out the power of a pet.

In fact many times, due to bad pathing mechanics a pet will cause the owner to get needless aggro or aggro the group which results in player death and possible death to other group members.

Pets can't zone with their owners. Pets also die when their owners die unlike PC pets which do not die. Again, this is just more evidence how pet classes are unfairly penalized.

Getting the very best pet is a crap shoot. On various occasions it has taken my mage up to 15 mins of constant summoning to get the very best pet. That's valuable time I could be exping. Then I have to equip the pet with weapons and haste the pet. Oh and if your pet dies, you can kiss those weapons good bye. Yep, just another penalty.

Therefore the owner of the pet is already sufficiently and intrinsically penalized.

So what do pets do with this experience that they steal from their owners? Nothing at all.
The original EQ designers could have implemented some kind of temporary talent and ability system for pets to "level up" their skills but they did not.

A player should not be competing with his pet to see who can do the most damage. Pets stealing experience from their masters is just another bad "classic" EQ mechanic that is being reproduced here on P1999 that serves no real purpose but to irritate and frustrate players all in the name of authenticity.

I think they did it originally to combat asshole Cheater enchanter. Unintended consequence of fucking mages... but that's really a guess