New sneak mechanics = trainfest?

[korilla]

Cool, classic patch. Makes the game harder which is a good thing. In terms of one of the side effects of this patch, won't this be a CSR nightmare? Figuring out who trained who, guild A wiping guild B...I can't see how this would benefit the population at this current time when it finally seems as guild are working together.

If GMs really are aware and take quick action, then learning this brand of EQ will definitely make this game more challenging and show the skill gap. Else, I can see the raid chat filled with "Items off Guild X have been revoked due to training"

[Haynar]

Maybe less CSR work when guilds are suspended all the time for training.

[Lobus]

Maybe less CSR work when guilds are suspended all the time for training.

/thread

#SlowClap
#Haynar4Prez

[Tupakk]

Maybe less CSR work when guilds are suspended all the time for training.

He's on a roll lately.

A++

[Caiu]

This is the death of casuals in ToV. They locked themselves into the classic agro mechanics and now the hardcore will far outstrip them in pulling knowledge. A/A have been in the temple since repop relearning mechanics I doubt any other entities have the will or way.

[Sallan]

The existing raid engagement rules in ntov may need to be revamped as 1 hour isn't going to be sufficient for classic clearing/pull with these changes (if that was the intention as well). This update needs to reflect that

[Sallan]

This is the death of casuals in ToV. They locked themselves into the classic agro mechanics and now the hardcore will far outstrip them in pulling knowledge. A/A have been in the temple since repop relearning mechanics I doubt any other entities have the will or way.

If it were me I would just bring my raid to arry pit or triplets hallway (with the roamer killed) and pull to there. The main issue I have is the 1 hour limit - they need to abolish this and go back to old FTE mechanics (FTE pull and engage)

[RDawg816]

If you played classic EQ the mechanics aren't that hard to adapt to. There will be a learning curve, sure, but it's not the end of the world. I'm enjoying the classic mechanics being implemented.

[Caiu]

The roamer is harder to kill than the actual named you're after is the issue. Were there safe spots for coth your plan would be solid. With what we have pulling to eashen steps is probably the most doable. Trying for entrance/exit pulls is probably out these days.

[Pokesan]

finally enough raider tears to bathe in

[Sallan]

The roamer is harder to kill than the actual named you're after is the issue. Were there safe spots for coth your plan would be solid. With what we have pulling to eashen steps is probably the most doable. Trying for entrance/exit pulls is probably out these days.

Yeah but it's getting more and more to the classic pull/camp spots. There are some posts in the bug fixes forum to address complementing changes that should also be fixed (like the removal of the roamer in triplets hall and faction hits), so if those get done moving raid forces around ntov will be more viable

[Ella`Ella]

Maybe less CSR work when guilds are suspended all the time for training.

I like how disconnected devs that don't even play here have opinions on what may/may not work on this server.

[Caiu]

I'd welcome removal of my bindpoint in ToV more than anything else. I can sort of understand why it is still in with the current meta. More struggle and competition on the top end. Actual crawling which no binds would dictate would require compromise and rotation even perhaps.

[Pokesan]

I like how disconnected devs that don't even play here have opinions on what may/may not work on this server.

do you play here

[Haynar]

I like how disconnected devs that don't even play here have opinions on what may/may not work on this server.
I never played here, other than leveling a necro to 17. Like 5 years ago.

I code for fun. What do you do for fun?

Don't worry. I got more classic stuff coming that you are going to LOVE!!!

Hang on. Gonna be a fun ride.

H

[Caiu]

I got more classic stuff coming that you are going to LOVE!!!
H
go on....

[khanable]

Haynar is my spirit animal

[mev]

As a monk who will have to relearn how to pull, I was initially hesitant about this bout of changes, but I think that it will be exciting to see how this changes the raid dynamics, and it will also mean that playing my monk is as interesting as playing a whole new character.


I code for fun. What do you do for fun?
Don't worry. I got more classic stuff coming that you are going to LOVE!!!
Hang on. Gonna be a fun ride.
H

Haynar, I have to say: I like your style.

[Lhancelot]

I'd welcome removal of my bindpoint in ToV more than anything else. I can sort of understand why it is still in with the current meta. More struggle and competition on the top end. Actual crawling which no binds would dictate would require compromise and rotation even perhaps.

You should put this in their suggestion box!

[zati]

I never played here, other than leveling a necro to 17. Like 5 years ago.

I code for fun. What do you do for fun?

Don't worry. I got more classic stuff coming that you are going to LOVE!!!

Hang on. Gonna be a fun ride.

H

lol savage.. +1

[mev]

The only thing that I wish was that I could see the commit history in the p99 code repository so that I didn't have to puzzle out the precise mechanics changes when updating my monk guide ;)

[Lhancelot]

I never played here, other than leveling a necro to 17. Like 5 years ago.

I code for fun. What do you do for fun?

Don't worry. I got more classic stuff coming that you are going to LOVE!!!

Hang on. Gonna be a fun ride.

H

Maybe some day more of the cheesy exploits the raiders use on this server as a crutch to "compete" will not be so easily implemented or even removed.

Thanks Haynar, for your hard work and conscious effort to improve the raiding on p99! This is encouraging, to say the least.

[Caiu]

Maybe some day more of the cheesy exploits the raiders use on this server as a crutch to "compete" will not be so easily implemented or even removed.

Thanks Haynar, for your hard work and conscious effort to improve the raiding on p99! This is encouraging, to say the least.

One can only hope that sanity will reign. Until then this rabbit hole is evermore as far as I'm concerned.

[Lune]

FD + sneak made for such fun emergent gameplay, but I'm glad to see it go for balance and difficulty reasons. Monks just have too much

I like how disconnected devs that don't even play here have opinions on what may/may not work on this server.

You and people like you have been a continuing source of headaches for staff and sane players for years, so I'd say he's 1000x more qualified regarding what's an improvement than you are.

[Dolalin]

So far these changes are amazing. NToV crawls may be back! The loot pinata seems to be gone and the raid scene will change for the better.

[Tasslehofp99]

I never played here, other than leveling a necro to 17. Like 5 years ago.

I code for fun. What do you do for fun?

Don't worry. I got more classic stuff coming that you are going to LOVE!!!

Hang on. Gonna be a fun ride.

H

bring it baby, I love the new patch personally!

[Skew]

The roamer is harder to kill than the actual named you're after is the issue. Were there safe spots for coth your plan would be solid. With what we have pulling to eashen steps is probably the most doable. Trying for entrance/exit pulls is probably out these days.

Perhaps Haynar should remove these non-classic roaming flurries then. You know, seeing as this is a classic server :eek::confused:

[kotton05]

This is the death of casuals in ToV. They locked themselves into the classic agro mechanics and now the hardcore will far outstrip them in pulling knowledge. A/A have been in the temple since repop relearning mechanics I doubt any other entities have the will or way.

Yea fucking right. Just a shit show of wasted clickies. actually CSG will have a better time than a/a since they clear ntov for fun during the week. Rustle has been prepping with ntov clears for awhile now. How about a/a? Shut it ya doink you know nadda. xD how's being afk on the line going?

[Leiker]

Why are the "hardcore" raiders so salty about this?
If these changes makes it harder for casuals, why do you care?

You're not crypto-casual scum, are you?

Also pras Haynar.

[Whirled]

12. You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.

Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken. It is therefore the responsibility of the guild leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these rules.
************************************************** *******

Why are guilds that habitually break rules still around?

cuz.. rules....ya know

[Truheart]

...free game, thank more, complain less...

[EdTuBrutus]

So far these changes are amazing. NToV crawls may be back! The loot pinata seems to be gone and the raid scene will change for the better.

It took 10 minutes to get zone line pulls working in Kael with the new mechanic.

It will be worked out for ToV as well.

What it might well do is make it significantly harder for casual raiders to be able to use this mechanic (especially as any new arrivals will be unable to place their toons at the bind points where the top tier guilds already have mules) and as the harder core guilds will have already pulled all the mobs to the zone lines/entrances to kill, there won't be any crawls.

[Lhancelot]

Why are the "hardcore" raiders so salty about this?
If these changes makes it harder for casuals, why do you care?

You're not crypto-casual scum, are you?

Also pras Haynar.

That's because they don't care and never cared about the game being challenging or competitive.

The easiest, cheesiest way to get pixels is the route they have taken for so long now.

The thought of it requiring some thought or maybe even some cooperation with other players sickens them.

Basically the method to how they get their pixels has been altered and just like a junkie they are panicking that they won't be able to so easily get their drug.

Some of these players really have a problem. It's apparent with their vast greed in the game for mob drops and their overflowing tears here on the forums about these changes.

Raids should require more thought, more coordination, more actual strategic tactics other than socking and then "racing" quickly from one mob to another killing them easily.

These changes are encouraging and are obviously in favor of the greater good for the raid scene and anyone that insults Haynar or the new changes are clearly degenerate neckbeards.

[Whirled]

12. You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.

Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.

Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken. It is therefore the responsibility of the guild leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these rules.
************************************************** *******

Why are guilds that habitually break rules still around?

cuz.. rules....ya know

...free game, thank more, complain less...

So, asking 1 question & linking the rules made by the ones in charge is complaining?

[Lhancelot]

It took 10 minutes to get zone line pulls working in Kael with the new mechanic.

It will be worked out for ToV as well.

What it might well do is make it significantly harder for casual raiders to be able to use this mechanic (especially as any new arrivals will be unable to place their toons at the bind points where the top tier guilds already have mules) and as the harder core guilds will have already pulled all the mobs to the zone lines/entrances to kill, there won't be any crawls.

That's the problem, raiders here find the easiest way to exploit a system in the game to make raiding and killing mobs an insignificant part of the process to get drops.

They should either shorten the leash so the mobs cannot be trained to the zone lines, or simply make it an illegal tactic and ban those who use them.

Raiding mobs should be an epic type of event, not a routine of pulling mobs to a spot for an easy kill.

Seriously, these tactics are pathetic and sad. I understand when in Rome do as the Romans do, and this has forced anyone that wants to raid to use the same tactics.

It's just sad that the server devs who work for free are now forced to make changes that combat lazy and exploitive gameplay by players.

Players who feel so entitled to the drops they have even found ways to exploit the pulling system one day after it had been altered to ensure they still can get their easy pixels and no one else can.

[Skew]

It took 10 minutes to get zone line pulls working in Kael with the new mechanic.

It will be worked out for ToV as well.

What it might well do is make it significantly harder for casual raiders to be able to use this mechanic (especially as any new arrivals will be unable to place their toons at the bind points where the top tier guilds already have mules) and as the harder core guilds will have already pulled all the mobs to the zone lines/entrances to kill, there won't be any crawls.

Given the history of this server id say this is a decent forecast.
Whatever mechanical changes are made to p99 , never be surprised at the lengths (ingenuity?) people will go to for efficient pixel:effort ratio.
I doubt crawls are coming back until mobs are rooted in place and bind points removed.
Without both those things at once there will be new strategies perfected to avoid all day crawls through trash.
If im wrong let me know how much fun youre having by your 10th 5 hour crawl through trash on a timelocked server.

[kotton05]

Things in Kael worked out because those mobs are not aoe'ing everyone and you can zone out if it goes bad.

From what I saw in ToV was just naked A/a everywhere and sirken sitting outside calling them all physco's. Doubt much was figured out other than folks might have to play nice.

[Lhancelot]

Given the history of this server id say this is a decent forecast.
Whatever mechanical changes are made to p99 , never be surprised at the lengths (ingenuity?) people will go to for efficient pixel:effort ratio.
I doubt crawls are coming back until mobs are rooted in place and bind points removed.
Without both those things at once there will be new strategies perfected to avoid all day crawls through trash.
If im wrong let me know how much fun youre having by your 10th 5 hour crawl through trash on a timelocked server.

I view these changes as what's in store for the new server tbh. I think these are experiments so when the real progression server starts, it will run as p99 should have.

They should keep blue up, that way the pixel hoarding neckbeards with five accounts and 20 maxed toons all with epics can bask in their vast collections of pixels forever till they die.

All the rest of the players looking for actual challenging, fun times raiding mobs with a respectful raiding scene can then go to the new server.

Blue 99 will then have the same type of reputation red 99 has now.

I actually feel like the top blue 99 raiders are worse than the players they love to criticize and look down upon who play on red.

[Skew]

I view these changes as what's in store for the new server tbh. I think these are experiments so when the real progression server starts, it will run as p99 should have.

They should keep blue up, that way the pixel hoarding neckbeards with five accounts and 20 maxed toons all with epics can bask in their vast collections of pixels forever till they die.

All the rest of the players looking for actual challenging, fun times raiding mobs with a respectful raiding scene can then go to the new server.

Blue 99 will then have the same type of reputation red 99 has now.

I actually feel like the top blue 99 raiders are worse than the players they love to criticize and look down upon who play on red.


Your feels are irrelevant.
Blue will survive no matter what the devs do , it will die when the power switch is flicked off.
Some consider it a challenge racing for FTEs. Some consider it a waste of time.
Some consider crawling through trash a waste of time. Others consider that a challenge.
What we should be able to agree upon is not everyone on an MMO has the same playstyle and take enjoyment in different aspects or challenges from one another.

A C/R/FFA rotation is probably what the server needs again.

[Ravager]

If im wrong let me know how much fun youre having by your 10th 5 hour crawl through trash on a timelocked server.
Sounds more fun than the 200th 5-minute instagib for years running, but to each their own.

[Skew]

Sounds more fun than the 200th 5-minute instagib for years running, but to each their own.

No doubt. One takes 5 mins though the other takes 5 hours :p

[Lhancelot]

Your feels are irrelevant.
Blue will survive no matter what the devs do , it will die when the power switch is flicked off.
Some consider it a challenge racing for FTEs. Some consider it a waste of time.
Some consider crawling through trash a waste of time. Others consider that a challenge.
What we should be able to agree upon is not everyone on an MMO has the same playstyle and take enjoyment in different aspects or challenges from one another.

A C/R/FFA rotation is probably what the server needs again.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious about my feels and if and when the server goes down it will be due to a power switch being flicked off.

To justify the actions of "racing" and "socking" by pointing out some find it enjoyable is hilarious and nothing to stand on when trying to defend the present meta of raiding on P99 blue.

You know why they enjoy it? It's enjoyable because the ones that have the endless time to sock and batphone then mobilize quickly from one target to another easily killing them are getting all the pixels.

So because these players in particular find it fun, then the playstyle should be defended? Nah bro.

Glad the server admin is letting devs tweak and play with the servers mechanics a bit to see how to improve it now.

Just because a junkie loves his amphetamines doesn't mean it's something to defend, especially when the amphetamine causes the junkie to be disruptive and cause problems with other people around them.

Kudos for the admin and server devs taking a stand and trying to improve upon the raid scene here.

Too bad if the very small percentage of players are salty and buttsore that their meta has been changed and will probably be changed more in the future.

Luckily their feels and yours are just as irrelevant as mine are.

[Baler]

Changes to the server code are not an excuse for breaking the rules.

[icedwards]

Too bad if the very small percentage of players are salty and buttsore that their meta has been changed and will probably be changed more in the future.

I haven't seen a single A/A member complain in this thread, or much in any of the other 4+ threads discussing the changes.

[Lobus]

Don't worry. I got more classic stuff coming that you are going to LOVE!!!

Hang on. Gonna be a fun ride.

Well shit... now I'm hard...

[derpcake]

Maybe less CSR work when guilds are suspended all the time for training.

its less csr work also if you ban people after 3 strikes, instead of giving them 10 shots, before the next 10, before the next 10

linking forum accounts and ingame accounts for that purpose would also help a great deal with forum moderation

[Nuggie]

Your feels are irrelevant.
+1

A C/R/FFA rotation is probably what the server needs again.
+2

This guy is on a roll.

[kotton05]

I haven't seen a single A/A member complain in this thread, or much in any of the other 4+ threads discussing the changes.

True. But outside ToV was another story lol.

Just gonna have to rotate imo. A/a/rustle/CSG

[Erati]

Just need to adjust the time limit of engagement

6 hours per fte LOL

[EdTuBrutus]

Given the history of this server id say this is a decent forecast.
Whatever mechanical changes are made to p99 , never be surprised at the lengths (ingenuity?) people will go to for efficient pixel:effort ratio.
I doubt crawls are coming back until mobs are rooted in place and bind points removed.
Without both those things at once there will be new strategies perfected to avoid all day crawls through trash.
If im wrong let me know how much fun youre having by your 10th 5 hour crawl through trash on a timelocked server.

It should also be considered what the alternative is going to be if pulls AREN'T worked out.

You will have multiple guilds requiring to crawl through the same area, at the same time, inside 1 hour, to reach their FTE tagged mobs.

OR, you remove the FTE rule in ToV and you have multiple guilds crawling through the same area, at the same time, pulling on top of each other, trying to leapfrog and then getting trained by the backpull of the other guilds if they get to engage a mob.

It's basically the clusterf*ck in Plane of Fear times 10.

[Dolalin]

you have multiple guilds crawling through the same area, at the same time, pulling on top of each other, trying to leapfrog and then getting trained by the backpull of the other guilds if they get to engage a mob.

So, classic NToV then? Leapfrogging was the name of the game on every server on live. Sounds like things are finally getting back to normal. The endgame shouldn't be a loot pinata.

[Bubbles]

It should also be considered what the alternative is going to be if pulls AREN'T worked out.

You will have multiple guilds requiring to crawl through the same area, at the same time, inside 1 hour, to reach their FTE tagged mobs.

OR, you remove the FTE rule in ToV and you have multiple guilds crawling through the same area, at the same time, pulling on top of each other, trying to leapfrog and then getting trained by the backpull of the other guilds if they get to engage a mob.

It's basically the clusterf*ck in Plane of Fear times 10.

You see, to many of us, the end game is sitting at zone in, binding sight, popcorn in hand.. And watching you idiots do exactly this for your 3rd alt.

[EdTuBrutus]

So, classic NToV then? Leapfrogging was the name of the game on every server on live. Sounds like things are finally getting back to normal. The endgame shouldn't be a loot pinata.

On Live, there was either 1 or 2 guilds capable of the content. In most cases it ended up being rotated on servers with more than 1 end game guild. The End Game literally was a loot pinata, it's how the game evolved and it is Classic.

P99 has at least 6 guilds and alliances that are capable of the End Game. That's Not Classic.

[EdTuBrutus]

You see, to many of us, the end game is sitting at zone in, binding sight, popcorn in hand.. And watching you idiots do exactly this for your 3rd alt.

I don't think the Status Quo is/was the answer either. It was pretty dumb and, personally, I feel genuine sympathy for those who get really caught up in it and start burning huge amounts of time doing that.

The only viable solution for a top heavy End Game is to pop every mob every 20 hours and enforce a 7 day rotation.

[Lhancelot]

I haven't seen a single A/A member complain in this thread, or much in any of the other 4+ threads discussing the changes.

You haven't seen me mention A/A one time in this thread.

I said the "small percentage of players" not once did I mention one member, one player's name, or one guild.

I don't need to point out the small percentage, they already voiced their displeasure with the changes on the forums.

[titanshub]

As a monk who will have to relearn how to pull, I was initially hesitant about this bout of changes, but I think that it will be exciting to see how this changes the raid dynamics, and it will also mean that playing my monk is as interesting as playing a whole new character.



Haynar, I have to say: I like your style.

Well put Mev.

Make it more classic Haynar!

[kotton05]

I'm not against rotations but pulling isn't going to change really, the hardest pulls will be koi, lady m and kreiz. Triplets and twins can just coth to and kill nbd.

I'm gonna lean on the side of it won't be that clean...Maybe if it's just you guys up there. Add 2-3 more guilds then it turns into a big deal. Specially considering if we go by server rules where you won't be clear to engage with in the one hour on some of those even with the most beardiest neck beards.

[Lazie]

I'm not against rotations but pulling isn't going to change really, the hardest pulls will be koi, lady m and kreiz. Triplets and twins can just coth to and kill nbd.

They wouldn't be that hard if you guys stopped trying to Pet Pulll everything and use the game mechanics to your advantage. It seemed the biggest issue you guys had with it while watching the raid was a puller wasn't leading your pull team and random ideas were just getting tossed around. Let Reep, Nalken and Aikons do work. And for the love of GOD keep Aalino in camp. Poor Aalpha got killed by him twice.

[kotton05]

I'm referrefing to the scenario that multiple dragons will start popping as you race to the first deep ToV spawn with your raid. You kind of understand, giving the trips and doubles will most likely spawn solo, they can spawn with each other and give other guilds a reason to be there. I can forsee trouble. On the other hand. A guild deep inside engaging a mob won't be able to engage any other mobs with a force camped out past the zone line. So once you're north of the wall in a non repop scenario you're locked in.

[Lazie]

I'm referrefing to the scenario that multiple dragons will start popping as you race to the first deep ToV spawn with your raid. You kind of understand, giving the trips and doubles will most likely spawn solo, they can spawn with each other and give other guilds a reason to be there. I can forsee trouble. On the other hand. A guild deep inside engaging a mob won't be able to engage any other mobs with a force camped out past the zone line. So once you're north of the wall in a non repop scenario you're locked in.

Very shortly they are going to realize they are going about it the wrong way. There is very simple ways to setup people each time an FTE happen to babysit the mob down to Aary pit. Heck both guilds already have CotH mages setup to do it in North.

[Lazie]

I'll go ahead and lay it out.

When we first setup binds for Pullers in ToV. Nalken was on his Cleric at PoM with me on my Monk. We both had sow and I had a DA idol. He DA'd and ran first with me behind him. 2 seconds before his DA wore off I hit a DA idol and he TL'ed out. I made it to twins before the idol wore off. Didn't have to even use Voiddance.

So with a CotH mage at Twins/Doubles. You coth in a Bard with a DA and SoW. At PoM You coth in another Bard with a DA idol and SoW. Above Dagarn you CotH in a Necro with SoW.

First bard uses his 2 DA's to drag it to PoM and takes a TL box to LTK...zones out.

2nd Bard picks it up with DA Song and Drags it to Dagarn and TLs to LTK and zones out.

Necro sends pet...DAs and runs to Aary pit. Clicks an idol there if it isnt all the way there before his DA wears off.

That is just a general idea of many ways to do it. And it just takes 3 people to get it there.

[Daldaen]

DA Idols will soon receive Ivandyrs treatment due to how overused they are in the NToV scene lol.

[Erati]

I'll go ahead and lay it out.

When we first setup binds for Pullers in ToV. Nalken was on his Cleric at PoM with me on my Monk. We both had sow and I had a DA idol. He DA'd and ran first with me behind him. 2 seconds before his DA wore off I hit a DA idol and he TL'ed out. I made it to twins before the idol wore off. Didn't have to even use Voiddance.

So with a CotH mage at Twins/Doubles. You coth in a Bard with a DA and SoW. At PoM You coth in another Bard with a DA idol and SoW. Above Dagarn you CotH in a Necro with SoW.

First bard uses his 2 DA's to drag it to PoM and takes a TL box to LTK...zones out.

2nd Bard picks it up with DA Song and Drags it to Dagarn and TLs to LTK and zones out.

Necro sends pet...DAs and runs to Aary pit. Clicks an idol there if it isnt all the way there before his DA wears off.

That is just a general idea of many ways to do it. And it just takes 3 people to get it there.

RIP Casual raiding in NTOV

[Lhancelot]

I'll go ahead and lay it out.

When we first setup binds for Pullers in ToV. Nalken was on his Cleric at PoM with me on my Monk. We both had sow and I had a DA idol. He DA'd and ran first with me behind him. 2 seconds before his DA wore off I hit a DA idol and he TL'ed out. I made it to twins before the idol wore off. Didn't have to even use Voiddance.

So with a CotH mage at Twins/Doubles. You coth in a Bard with a DA and SoW. At PoM You coth in another Bard with a DA idol and SoW. Above Dagarn you CotH in a Necro with SoW.

First bard uses his 2 DA's to drag it to PoM and takes a TL box to LTK...zones out.

2nd Bard picks it up with DA Song and Drags it to Dagarn and TLs to LTK and zones out.

Necro sends pet...DAs and runs to Aary pit. Clicks an idol there if it isnt all the way there before his DA wears off.

That is just a general idea of many ways to do it. And it just takes 3 people to get it there.

I look forward to the day when oceans of neckbeard tears wash over the forums because clickies are nerfed into oblivion.

[Lazie]

I look forward to the day when oceans of neckbeard tears wash over the forums because clickies are nerfed into oblivion.

They will just coth 2 people to each spot that can DA without clickies. This isn't rocket science and takes 10 minutes of thinking to figure out.

[Daldaen]

They will just coth 2 people to each spot that can DA without clickies. This isn't rocket science and takes 10 minutes of thinking to figure out.

It takes far more coordination than the previous Rogue Herp Derp FTE with an instant Gate Potion. Will be a learning curve certainly. But pulls will be doable where there are safe CoTH spots. The mages will return though.

One thing I'd really love is if P99 got classic Belly Caster Hate. Currently you can spam mallet a mob out of a train. Belly casters should consider resists due to out side of belly cast range as nearly 0 hate though because it never even had a chance to land.

Would make tagging these things out of trains far more entertaining.

[Haynar]

What ya gonna do with bind points removed from ToV?

[Lazie]

It takes far more coordination than the previous Rogue Herp Derp FTE with an instant Gate Potion. Will be a learning curve certainly. But pulls will be doable where there are safe CoTH spots. The mages will return though.

One thing I'd really love is if P99 got classic Belly Caster Hate. Currently you can spam mallet a mob out of a train. Belly casters should consider resists due to out side of belly cast range as nearly 0 hate though because it never even had a chance to land.

Would make tagging these things out of trains far more entertaining.

Yeah. But if the person just has body aggro on it that is training 2 clicks is more aggro if the person running it around is out of Mellee range. Since P99 doesn't have the Prox aggro changes that came later that is.

[Lazie]

What ya gonna do with bind points removed from ToV?

I am not doing any of this. I retired from this type of raiding sir. But they will just use coth mages and Move their Binds to outside ToV.

[Erati]

What ya gonna do with bind points removed from ToV?

:eek:

[Lazie]

The Binds would have never changed anything as far as Pulling. You could (Before leash changes) start a train from entrance or LTK with a KoS person with Elder beads and a CotH mage. You could Pull a dragon to either of those location with a CotH Mage at LTK and the Puller at the Dragon with Elder Beads.... OR Jav and a rez box.

[Lhancelot]

They will just coth 2 people to each spot that can DA without clickies. This isn't rocket science and takes 10 minutes of thinking to figure out.

Yeah, but I mean not only the DA clickies, but all of them. All the cheese tactics that rely on clickies should be gutted. The complete heal clickies, slow clickies, etc.

I think it's great they are actually altering how raiding is by trying to change mechanics in the game.

They also are doing one change at a time which in my mind means they are trying not to throw too much in just to be sure they don't overdo anything.

I suspect bind points will be removed from NTOV, and that will not be the end of it either.

[fadetree]

TL Boxes and Rez boxes problematic too. I know its not classic, but I kind of think they should have a relatively short expiration time, or proximity rules, or something such that you can't just run around constantly with a free get of out jail click.

[Maner]

Yeah, but I mean not only the DA clickies, but all of them. All the cheese tactics that rely on clickies should be gutted. The complete heal clickies, slow clickies, etc.

I think it's great they are actually altering how raiding is by trying to change mechanics in the game.

They also are doing one change at a time which in my mind means they are trying not to throw too much in just to be sure they don't overdo anything.

I suspect bind points will be removed from NTOV, and that will not be the end of it either.

Mallets were used on live...

I suspect you haven't even bothered trying to raid and are just talking out of your ass constantly. You clearly didn't even bother to see that everything was still being pulled and trained away literally minutes after the reset...

[Sancta]

I haven't seen a single A/A member complain in this thread, or much in any of the other 4+ threads discussing the changes.

You haven't seen me mention A/A one time in this thread.

I said the "small percentage of players" not once did I mention one member, one player's name, or one guild.




They should keep blue up, that way the pixel hoarding neckbeards with five accounts and 20 maxed toons all with epics can bask in their vast collections of pixels forever till they die.

I actually feel like the top blue 99 raiders are worse than the players they love to criticize and look down upon who play on red.

Too bad if the very small percentage of players are salty and buttsore that their meta has been changed and will probably be changed more in the future.



I look forward to the day when oceans of neckbeard tears wash over the forums because clickies are nerfed into oblivion.


Just gonna let that sit there.

Yeah, but I mean not only the DA clickies, but all of them. All the cheese tactics that rely on clickies should be gutted. The complete heal clickies, slow clickies, etc.



You've written more lines of text than everyone in this thread by a huge margin. Reading your responses, pretty sure you're by far the most "salty and buttsore" [<- your words] person in this thread.

Reading their responses, none of the "top blue 99 raiders" look like they are upset at all, they seem to be working around the problem just fine and seem to like the challenge. They are good players that will find new tactics and that's the point you're trying to make, they like the challenge so they take it up. If casual guilds liked the challenge they would be trying to do the same thing, yet they don't?

Have to realize that all those clickies that you so hate (probably b/c you've never had them) are used by everyone that plays Everquest past lvl 50 for more than just raiding. They are far more useful to the casual guilds than they are to the top raiding guilds. Everyone likes clickies obv, top guilds do like them, but the top guilds don't need them as much as casual guilds do.

These changes now make it harder for casual guilds to compete in my opinion. Feel like this gonna spawn even more complaint threads coming from casual players. The sneak memblur monk change hurts casual guilds way way more.

[Lhancelot]

These changes now make it harder for casual guilds to compete in my opinion. Feel like this gonna spawn even more complaint threads coming from casual players. The sneak memblur monk change hurts casual guilds way way more.

What are you talking about? Exactly what casual players and guilds compete with the neckbeards for top end raid mobs?

As for me personally, I participated enough in a raid guild to fully grasp the concept of how raiding works on this server. Long enough to know greed overrides any sense of decency within them. Pixels > all, period.

Basically a select core group of players run the raid guild with personal armies of alts/officers and they play one another's accounts if and when a certain class is needed.

This coterie group of neckbeards ensure they always have the best chance to rack up DKP by way of a system that rewards their neckbearding lifestyle.

This enables them to gear up their mains as well as their small personal army of alts.

In the typical P99 raid guild, fringe guild members ride the coattails of the hardcore neckbeards praying that eventually some of those pixels will trickle down to them.

It is possible if they kiss enough ass or ride the DKP train for multiple months or years that they too might just manage to get their main geared in said raid guild.

The raid scene here is abysmal and casuals already get railroaded... stop trying to pretend that casuals have ever had a chance to raid anything worthwhile on this server.

Any change to how the raid scene works here is good, and if changes are set in place that create a system where more communication and cooperation between guilds is necessary then that's even better.

Also any changes that make raiding more challenging is only one more plus. Raid mobs should not be pulled in exploitive fashion and easily killed, period.

The only thing hurting casuals chances to raid on this server is the greed of the neckbeard, nothing else.

[Pokesan]

casuals don't compete for Ntov anyway so the spin about it hurting them more is a pretty transparent attempt to use them to get the changes rolled back

work on ur posting beardy

[Maner]

What are you talking about? Exactly what casual players and guilds compete with the neckbeards for top end raid mobs?

As for me personally, I participated enough in a raid guild to fully grasp the concept of how raiding works on this server. Long enough to know greed overrides any sense of decency within them. Pixels > all, period.

Basically a select core group of players run the raid guild with personal armies of alts/officers and they play one another's accounts if and when a certain class is needed.

This coterie group of neckbeards ensure they always have the best chance to rack up DKP by way of a system that rewards their neckbearding lifestyle.

This enables them to gear up their mains as well as their small personal army of alts.

In the typical P99 raid guild, fringe guild members ride the coattails of the hardcore neckbeards praying that eventually some of those pixels will trickle down to them.

It is possible if they kiss enough ass or ride the DKP train for multiple months or years that they too might just manage to get their main geared in said raid guild.

The raid scene here is abysmal and casuals already get railroaded... stop trying to pretend that casuals have ever had a chance to raid anything worthwhile on this server.

Any change to how the raid scene works here is good, and if changes are set in place that create a system where more communication and cooperation between guilds is necessary then that's even better.

Also any changes that make raiding more challenging is only one more plus. Raid mobs should not be pulled in exploitive fashion and easily killed, period.

The only thing hurting casuals chances to raid on this server is the greed of the neckbeard, nothing else.

So you basically never raided? Speaking from the aftermath perspective at least, I don't know of any officer or leader who has an army of alts geared out. The way the bidding process is done, anyone can stop an alt from getting an item that they want by just bidding the minimum. Anything in Aftermath that goes to an alt goes to an alt because no one valued it enough to meet the minimum bid. If you are referring to 2nd mains, just about any raid entity either has 2nd mains or they random fro drops anyway, if not one of those two options then its a newer guild and players just haven't had the time to level up more toons. I personally have 3 lvl 60s I have leveled myself and one more that is almost there, and I started without knowing anyone on the server.

While there are "casuals" even in the top 2 guilds, they are there and welcomed because it takes both the hard core beards along with the baby faced casuals to kill a target. Albeit less so now with the 1 hour FTE. Every change to the raid rules makes it more challenging, at least until the scene adapts to them and then it becomes the same repetitive stuff until the next change or nerf happens. The problem is that the people who will adapt to these changes the fastest are the ones willing to put in the most time to do so. You make fun of them for the amount of time they put into the game but that is there choice just as its the choice of others not to put in the time. Saying that they don't deserve more in return for time invested is just stupid and obviously not how the server GMs see it.

[Sancta]

What are you talking about? Exactly what casual players and guilds compete with the neckbeards for top end raid mobs?

As for me personally, I participated enough in a raid guild to fully grasp the concept of how raiding works on this server. Long enough to know greed overrides any sense of decency within them. Pixels > all, period.

Basically a select core group of players run the raid guild with personal armies of alts/officers and they play one another's accounts if and when a certain class is needed.

This coterie group of neckbeards ensure they always have the best chance to rack up DKP by way of a system that rewards their neckbearding lifestyle.

This enables them to gear up their mains as well as their small personal army of alts.

In the typical P99 raid guild, fringe guild members ride the coattails of the hardcore neckbeards praying that eventually some of those pixels will trickle down to them.

It is possible if they kiss enough ass or ride the DKP train for multiple months or years that they too might just manage to get their main geared in said raid guild.

The raid scene here is abysmal and casuals already get railroaded... stop trying to pretend that casuals have ever had a chance to raid anything worthwhile on this server.

Any change to how the raid scene works here is good, and if changes are set in place that create a system where more communication and cooperation between guilds is necessary then that's even better.

Also any changes that make raiding more challenging is only one more plus. Raid mobs should not be pulled in exploitive fashion and easily killed, period.

The only thing hurting casuals chances to raid on this server is the greed of the neckbeard, nothing else.

You clearly have never raided on this server, shouldn't post about things you know nothing about. Good luck with your future endeavors.



On Topic: The same mechanics/clickies/strats/tactics that all players use are employed by all players in all guilds, casual or not, they are not a secret. Making certain mechanics harder makes it harder for everyone. Casual/new guilds will have the hardest time adjusting and might not even have the capability to pull certain things now, where before it was easier for everyone to do so. Depending on how the rules are structured casuals can still get atleast some targets like before, but certain targets that were pullable/killable for them before might not be now. Think about even simple fights like Gorenaire, easy pull/kill before, now take extra coordination. A/A would have not have a shortage of people stepping up for the pull, casual guilds might, and that's not even talking about more complicated ToV pulls. You will need way more clickies than ever before as well, which includes recharges, furthering the skill gap between guilds.

I think people that think these changes will make it easier for casual guilds have never raided before or recently.

[Sancta]

casuals don't compete for Ntov anyway so the spin about it hurting them more is a pretty transparent attempt to use them to get the changes rolled back

work on ur posting beardy

Casual have competed in ToV, sat on the line, got FTEs, pulled the dragons and killed them.

How many people that post on these forums regularly actually play the game still? or even in the last year? Seems like only a handful, tops like 10?

[Danth]

2nd mains

I find the bit I quoted rather funny.

I don't see that this patch changes much of anything for lower-end guilds, and I say that as someone who constantly floats around in the lower-end scene. They didn't compete for high-end targets before the patch, and won't do so now. Hateplane might become more of a mess though.

Casual have competed in ToV, sat on the line

No they haven't because if you're sitting around in temple veeshan, you're not really casual anymore. YOu might not be hardcore either, but you're at least someplace in the middle. Casual players are out fighting in West Karana or Unrest or Karnor or maybe dorking around in Fearplane.

Danth

[Sancta]

Look at this hot shot here

what a HOT SHOT

I always loved that gif but why skip frames? Do it in it's full glory!

[Lhancelot]

So you basically never raided? Speaking from the aftermath perspective at least, I don't know of any officer or leader who has an army of alts geared out. The way the bidding process is done, anyone can stop an alt from getting an item that they want by just bidding the minimum. Anything in Aftermath that goes to an alt goes to an alt because no one valued it enough to meet the minimum bid. If you are referring to 2nd mains, just about any raid entity either has 2nd mains or they random fro drops anyway, if not one of those two options then its a newer guild and players just haven't had the time to level up more toons. I personally have 3 lvl 60s I have leveled myself and one more that is almost there, and I started without knowing anyone on the server.

While there are "casuals" even in the top 2 guilds, they are there and welcomed because it takes both the hard core beards along with the baby faced casuals to kill a target. Albeit less so now with the 1 hour FTE. Every change to the raid rules makes it more challenging, at least until the scene adapts to them and then it becomes the same repetitive stuff until the next change or nerf happens. The problem is that the people who will adapt to these changes the fastest are the ones willing to put in the most time to do so. You make fun of them for the amount of time they put into the game but that is there choice just as its the choice of others not to put in the time. Saying that they don't deserve more in return for time invested is just stupid and obviously not how the server GMs see it.

I said the typical raid guild on the server. I never was in Aftermath so I can't say how you operate etc.

You are right, I did limited raiding on P99. It took me a matter of 2-3 months of being in a raid guild to understand the mentality of their leadership and I found it distasteful to say the least.

Maybe I hold a lot more resentment than I should against raiders in general on this server, but my very limited time spent in a raid guild here was an eye-opening experience, and frankly overwhelmingly disappointing.

I joined the raid guild thinking it would be a close-knit community of players willing to help one another when in fact the majority of the players that got any help were the inner circle who needed the least amount of help.

Occasionally a fringe player would voice their unhappiness with how "help" was spread or not spread around for members of the guild, and they would be silenced with "Just give it time. Help the guild (the greedy neckbeards), and eventually one day we will help you."

I can say with certainty the greed of the players on this server has totally destroyed any chances of "casuals" ever getting to raid as the meta operates now.

Pretending that monk nerfs is actually going to hurt casuals chances of raiding is the typical type of crap a true neckbeard would spew to defend the present scheme of things in raiding on P99.

If there's any way to preserve the defunct system in place now that lets them soak up as much of the high end pixels possible, they will try to do it, even by proclaiming monk nerfs will hurt the "poor casuals" chances at raid mob shinies. You know, the same shiny pixels that casuals never get anyway.

[Sancta]

I find the bit I quoted rather funny.

I don't see that this patch changes much of anything for lower-end guilds, and I say that as someone who constantly floats around in the lower-end scene. They didn't compete for high-end targets before the patch, and won't do so now. Hateplane might become more of a mess though.

No they haven't because if you're sitting around in temple veeshan, you're not really casual anymore. YOu might not be hardcore either, but you're at least someplace in the middle. Casual players are out fighting in West Karana or Unrest or Karnor or maybe dorking around in Fearplane.


Danth

It's like no one that posts here actually still plays.

Sneak after an FD does not memblur the mobs in the pull anymore, which means monk pulling has been nerfed considerably. Simple things like HoT, which the casual guilds do way more than A/A, is now more difficult for everyone and strictly because of that one change even disregarding the new chase mechanics. Not saying it isn't doable, just more difficult now.

Can even state the point more plainly - A monk pulling ANY mob in ANY zone is going to have a harder time. This change affects everyone single monk pull from now until forever.

Don't think A/A care as much, sure it's a bummer, but they will adjust to any change the server makes.

Lower-end guilds get way more of this shaft while high-end guilds get just the tip. <- maybe speaking this forums' language will help?

Also when "casual guilds" are mentioned, especially in threads like these, they are talking about the casual raiding guilds, not random guild #32 that doesn't have a player over 50. But my point still stands, it affects the monk pulls in those guilds too.

[Sancta]

I joined the raid guild thinking it would be a close-knit community of players willing to help one another when in fact the majority of the players that got any help were the inner circle who needed the least amount of help.

The way to get people to help you is not through having the same guild tag, although that helps. It's talking to people, through tells or teamspeak, get to know eachother, become friends etc. Just because I joined Raid Guild X doesn't mean that anyone should auto-help with anything. Those "inner circle" people get help because they are probably the most active in guild events, chat channels, voice channels, help others out and put in the time. Sorry, I can't speak for Awakened, but I'm sure it's the same way.

When I joined my current guild, I wasn't helped on anything right away, I took my time out to help others in guild first, built clout and relationships, help out with random things etc. Only then once I was active, helpful and knew the players I was playing with they were willing to return the favor and that's talking about people outside of guild too.

[Maner]

I said the typical raid guild on the server. I never was in Aftermath so I can't say how you operate etc.

You are right, I did limited raiding on P99. It took me a matter of 2-3 months of being in a raid guild to understand the mentality of their leadership and I found it distasteful to say the least.

Maybe I hold a lot more resentment than I should against raiders in general on this server, but my very limited time spent in a raid guild here was an eye-opening experience, and frankly overwhelmingly disappointing.

I joined the raid guild thinking it would be a close-knit community of players willing to help one another when in fact the majority of the players that got any help were the inner circle who needed the least amount of help.

Occasionally a fringe player would voice their unhappiness with how "help" was spread or not spread around for members of the guild, and they would be silenced with "Just give it time. Help the guild (the greedy neckbeards), and eventually one day we will help you."

I can say with certainty the greed of the players on this server has totally destroyed any chances of "casuals" ever getting to raid as the meta operates now.

Pretending that monk nerfs is actually going to hurt casuals chances of raiding is the typical type of crap a true neckbeard would spew to defend the present scheme of things in raiding on P99.

If there's any way to preserve the defunct system in place now that lets them soak up as much of the high end pixels possible, they will try to do it, even by proclaiming monk nerfs will hurt the "poor casuals" chances at raid mob shinies. You know, the same shiny pixels that casuals never get anyway.

Not sure what raid guilds have a ton of people helping or asking for help in them. I know in aftermath its very rare that anyone needs to ask the guild for help with anything....

[Danth]

It's like no one that posts here actually still plays.

Been online every day this week, thanks. From my standpoint, it appears your beliefs rest on the assumption that lower-end players are unable to adapt to change. I disagree; high-end or low, this patch simply means guilds will employ pull teams where single pullers sufficed before. Pulling isn't why low-end guilds don't defeat mid-range targets, and pulling isn't why mid-range guilds don't usually compete for high-end targets. Heck, I *live* in the lower-end scene on P1999 and chat both in-guild and among friends was almost universally positive with respect to this new patch. Folks like classic mechanics.

Danth

[Maner]

Been online every day this week, thanks. From my standpoint, it appears your beliefs rest on the assumption that lower-end players are unable to adapt to change. I disagree; high-end or low, this patch simply means guilds will employ pull teams where single pullers sufficed before. Pulling isn't why low-end guilds don't defeat mid-range targets, and pulling isn't why mid-range guilds don't usually compete for high-end targets. Heck, I *live* in the lower-end scene on P1999 and chat both in-guild and among friends was almost universally positive with respect to this new patch. Folks like classic mechanics.

Danth

The only person here actually complaining about the changes is lhance and he is complaining second handedly basically.

[Pokesan]

what is project1999 raiding?

a bunch of nerds that turn video game skill into the definition of self worth

[Sancta]

Been online every day this week, thanks. From my standpoint, it appears your beliefs rest on the assumption that lower-end players are unable to adapt to change. I disagree; high-end or low, this patch simply means guilds will employ pull teams where single pullers sufficed before. Pulling isn't why low-end guilds don't defeat mid-range targets, and pulling isn't why mid-range guilds don't usually compete for high-end targets. Heck, I *live* in the lower-end scene on P1999 and chat both in-guild and among friends was almost universally positive with respect to this new patch. Folks like classic mechanics.

Danth

I think you're completely misunderstanding the point, lower-end guilds can certainly change, it's just harder for them to do so. And when I say casual/low-end guild, I mean a raiding guild that could compete for targets, sorry for the confusion. Never talked about liking/disliking the changes or about guilds not adapting, only that it will be harder for them to adapt to raid targets.

My point: Monk pulling is harder for everyone. Down to the monk pulling in Unrest, albeit not that much more difficult for them.


Now, for a casual RAID guild to compete with raid targets they will need to do MORE WORK than they did before to compete. That's just plain fact, everyone has to do more work to compete now, including A/A. Seeing as how the casual raid guilds don't get many targets, they will now have to do more work to get the targets they already get and that puts a hamper on progressing to targets they don't get since they are harder for them to attain now. Further widening the gap.


I personally don't mind the changes at all, shits harder and the guild I'm in adapts far easier than other guilds that compete for raid targets. It will be harder for the casual raid guilds than A/A. It already was harder without these changes, this makes it even harder.

[Pokesan]

yeah all those hypothetical casuals getting FTEs in ntov will really suffer.

could i count CSG ftes in the past year on one hand or would it take two? (no offense intended to them)

[Sancta]

what is project1999 raiding?

a bunch of nerds that turn video game skill into the definition of self worth

What is almost 4000 posts in 3 years on a forum of a game you don't even play on?

a nerd that turns forum posts into the definition of self worth

[Pokesan]

What is almost 4000 posts in 3 years on a forum of a game you don't even play on?

a nerd that turns forum posts into the definition of self worth

excuse me i like to post & this is a no post shaming zone

i played today champ :)

[Sancta]

this is a no post shaming zone


My apologies!

[Lhancelot]

The only person here actually complaining about the changes is lhance and he is complaining second handedly basically.

I ain't complaining, I support the changes and welcome more changes. Hope they reinvent the wheel so to speak regarding the raids here.

If there's one thing I dislike on P99, it's the raid scene.

Since I left the last guild I was in, I have been happier and found the game fun again playing alts and doing group content or soloing. Basically doing everything but raids.

I honestly want to like raiding, it would open up other facets to my character developments but alas, as it stands on P99 this will never happen.

[Maner]

I ain't complaining, I support the changes and welcome more changes. Hope they reinvent the wheel so to speak regarding the raids here.

If there's one thing I dislike on P99, it's the raid scene.

Since I left the last guild I was in, I have been happier and found the game fun again playing alts and doing group content or soloing. Basically doing everything but raids.

I honestly want to like raiding, it would open up other facets to my character developments but alas, as it stands on P99 this will never happen.

The trick is to camp your lvl 60 out and do all those things, then when something spawns, log over.

[Lhancelot]

The trick is to camp your lvl 60 out and do all those things, then when something spawns, log over.

Yeah maybe so. Sounds easy enough, and I imagine if you find kindred souls in a guild this might work out.

[Dolalin]

What ya gonna do with bind points removed from ToV?

On Live we'd have a mage die, monk flop up to coth point with their corpse, and rez them with a staff of forbidden rites charge. They'd be grouped with an anchor at zonein and they'd start coth at the ntov safe point. I imagine it would go back to that in the worst case, which is classic and totally fair.

Realistically I think FTE rules in NToV are going to need a rethink. If a mob is up, it should be 'first one there in force'. Casual guilds are more than willing to put in the effort to get there and clear to north, the issue is that the easy-loot-pinata that has reigned on this box meant that there were just no mobs up by the time everyone got home from work in the evening.

With the zone such a pain in the ass now, I sincerely hope it burns out a lot of people in the high end guilds. The casuals enjoy the other content on the server, and aren't living their lives for those northern pixels, they're just a fun treat. If we see people burning out in A/A that would be good for the server overall. One or two guilds shouldn't be monopolizing that content.

[kotton05]

Why not keep the races the same just introduce like a 4 hour lock hell even 24. If said casual guild gets fte they're basically out the game for a long time. I dunno what exactly should change but camping past zone in shouldn't be one😵😵.

I mean at this point any guild committed to a deep dergan is going to go past the one hour. How long well, I'm sure it will vary but while the guilds are past the zone line they're excluded to new spawns. So you're risking it if something spawns while your entire raid force is past the ZL. You're basically SoL unless it's already up on a repop situation. This is all with current rule set in mind. This is a gift to casuals as I forsee spawns being left up in hopes of better pixels and a curse to the hardcore while all the dragons share a window since they'll be past the zone killing way more often or have more than just 1 target in mind for the weekend.

/rant off

[Ravager]

The trick is to camp your lvl 60 out and do all those things, then when something spawns, log over.

Tried it. Doesn't work. Too much trouble for very little reward.

Besides, logging over to kill a mob when you're in a group is a douchey thing to do.

[Lazie]

Merkk neither Awakened or Aftermath are gonna take longer than an hour to kill any dragon after a little trial and error. They have the resources in the zone to Pull anything to zone in. Awakened is probably gonna have to learn to kill everything at zone in instead of LTK though.

[kotton05]

I'll believe it when I see it. I don't doubt you.
Can't pull shit to zone in tho if another guild is clearing up. Fraps on

[Xaanka]

preferring to have a familiar routine and getting very upset if there are changes to this routine

[Lhancelot]

rofl Xaanka ^^^

[Lazie]

I'll believe it when I see it. I don't doubt you.
Can't pull shit to zone in tho if another guild is clearing up. Fraps on

I mean they already did Vyemm and others there. It just takes getting the dragons up top to Aary's pit. That isn't all that difficult. Heck you can coth up 3 bards and have em DA song the dragon down. Last Bard with a DA Idol makes sure it gets the rest of the way there.

[Lhancelot]

I mean they already did Vyemm and others there. It just takes getting the dragons up top to Aary's pit. That isn't all that difficult. Heck you can coth up 3 bards and have em DA song the dragon down. Last Bard with a DA Idol makes sure it gets the rest of the way there.

Translation: DA idols need nerfed ASAP.

[AgentEpilot]

When do enchanters get an AOE perma charm and dual wield?

[stonez138]

I like how disconnected devs that don't even play here have opinions on what may/may not work on this server.

I like how people try and justify and defend training other guilds.

[Lazie]

Translation: DA idols need nerfed ASAP.

Would change absolutely nothing in regards to pulling dragons in this situation. DA idols are just insurance. 2 classes can cast 2 DAs and 2 others can cast or sing 1. It is always about resources raiding on this server. You take away DA idols and the resource for DA swaps to having characters available to cast it. People will just start sharing more accounts.

[Phatez]

The new sneak mechanic changes nothing related to how TOV was previously executed. The leash mechanic, however, changes everything. It will be interesting to see how the meta on the server adapts to these changes. Fte and TOV dragon kills will surely change. How this change occurs is up to the leadership of the top guilds as well as our support staff. Hopefully the adaptation of these mechanic changes produces a more formidable raid environment for all involved.

The leash change has made these fights and pulls far less trivial. How exciting!

Phatez <Aftermath>

[B4EQWASCOOL]

Lot of L2P issues ITT.

[Lazie]

The new sneak mechanic changes nothing related to how TOV was previously executed. The leash mechanic, however, changes everything. It will be interesting to see how the meta on the server adapts to these changes. Fte and TOV dragon kills will surely change. How this change occurs is up to the leadership of the top guilds as well as our support staff. Hopefully the adaptation of these mechanic changes produces a more formidable raid environment for all involved.

The leash change has made these fights and pulls far less trivial. How exciting!

Phatez <Aftermath>

Eh...Still pretty trivial. The only thing that would completely change gameplay mechanics is rooting of Dragons. Which won't happen on P99.

[kotton05]

No rules vp go!

[lurk]

Great changes. But..

Binds still need to be removed. Is there even a way to retroactively move bind points? A dev on another server had to ask me to move my binds from a certain zone stating he couldnt do it.

Certain drakes need to be removed for safe spots.

Hatchlings need to be charmable.

Getting the chase range right on dragons will be tough. Definitely most NToV dragons should assist vulak if theyre up. Maybe make them turn into his pets when agro'd. Idk.

Staff of forbidden rights was brought up a couple times and was 100% classic. Alas i think recharge value here is like 1 million.

[Lhancelot]

Would change absolutely nothing in regards to pulling dragons in this situation. DA idols are just insurance. 2 classes can cast 2 DAs and 2 others can cast or sing 1. It is always about resources raiding on this server. You take away DA idols and the resource for DA swaps to having characters available to cast it. People will just start sharing more accounts.

Seeing the widespread abuse of clickies on the server, it's time to take a serious look into disabling this major crutch that the so-called raiders utilize to conquer content.

1. Remove recharging items.

2. Make significant nerfs to said items that people seem intent on exploiting. (clicky complete heals, DA idols, easily obtained clicky slow items, etc.)

3. Seeing it is near impossible to stop all the exploitive tactics p99 raiders are intent on using, raid mobs, particularly dragons need to be rooted or have such a tight leash they cannot be pulled to any zonelines, period. This will force the fights to happen as they always were meant to.

Make the raiders actually have to fight and raid the way EQ1 was designed to, and stop this abomination of cheating the system for pixels. These whining, exploit-using players have milked dragons for easy pixels far too long, and it's time to make p99 raiding great again.

Crawling to big raid bosses, the intrigue and build up is what made raiding so exciting on classic. The insta-gib, pull to the zoneline crap these players literally pull should be stopped, and pixels should be earned from this point on.

These changes alone would create a far more immersive experience while raiding, and a true fulfillment of accomplishing something in an elfsim would be present again.

hardcore raiders would finally have the true challenge of competing against one another as they always remind us they want more than anything, that being a true competition of the best raid guilds against one another, proving who has what it really takes to conquer the games content in the way it was meant to be.

Remove socking, and "racing", and bring back raiding and crawling.



***Yes, maybe some of these changes wouldn't be "classic", but let's be real here players here on p99 are not playing with the same (lack) of knowledge players on live (classic) had with regards to all the tricks and exploits they now are aware of and intent on using. Seeing these same players have no self control and will always take the easiest road provided to milk maximum pixels for minimal effort, the devs here have no choice but to alter the raid meta with significant changes and rooting mobs/nerfing clickies would be a good start.

[Kodim]

Has anyone ever thought of making their own server, and having it be in their own vision and letting Nilbog and crew do what they want with theirs?

[lurk]

Skipping content is as classic as it gets. VP was always pulled in classic, even after nerfing rez staff in luclin because of VT skipping and adding straight up leashed bosses in PoP; i was still able to use a bug to run straight to rathe council and coth a raid, i did the same thing for coirnav and even managed to time ticks to legit swim there. i was able to time ticks as a solo mage to VZ and coth a raid, hell we would train up to the boss before saryrn and rez up there to avoid clearing. It is inevitable for people to find a way. The best we can do is just accept it and make it as classic as possible. The mechanics, not the feels...

After all these years so many people know the capabilities of each class and the mechanics of the game. You will never recreate a classic feel when the knowledge base is so vast. Mechanics should be classic, if players use them in a non classic way then its still classic, it just hurts your nostalgic feels

[kotton05]

I used to bang out full LDoN in 30 mins flat with a buddy for them sweet crystals and that was meant to be crawled too

[Lhancelot]

More changes coming soon™.

[Maner]

Seeing the widespread abuse of clickies on the server, it's time to take a serious look into disabling this major crutch that the so-called raiders utilize to conquer content.

1. Remove recharging items.

2. Make significant nerfs to said items that people seem intent on exploiting. (clicky complete heals, DA idols, easily obtained clicky slow items, etc.)

3. Seeing it is near impossible to stop all the exploitive tactics p99 raiders are intent on using, raid mobs, particularly dragons need to be rooted or have such a tight leash they cannot be pulled to any zonelines, period. This will force the fights to happen as they always were meant to.

Make the raiders actually have to fight and raid the way EQ1 was designed to, and stop this abomination of cheating the system for pixels. These whining, exploit-using players have milked dragons for easy pixels far too long, and it's time to make p99 raiding great again.

Crawling to big raid bosses, the intrigue and build up is what made raiding so exciting on classic. The insta-gib, pull to the zoneline crap these players literally pull should be stopped, and pixels should be earned from this point on.

These changes alone would create a far more immersive experience while raiding, and a true fulfillment of accomplishing something in an elfsim would be present again.

hardcore raiders would finally have the true challenge of competing against one another as they always remind us they want more than anything, that being a true competition of the best raid guilds against one another, proving who has what it really takes to conquer the games content in the way it was meant to be.

Remove socking, and "racing", and bring back raiding and crawling.



***Yes, maybe some of these changes wouldn't be "classic", but let's be real here players here on p99 are not playing with the same (lack) of knowledge players on live (classic) had with regards to all the tricks and exploits they now are aware of and intent on using. Seeing these same players have no self control and will always take the easiest road provided to milk maximum pixels for minimal effort, the devs here have no choice but to alter the raid meta with significant changes and rooting mobs/nerfing clickies would be a good start.

The lack of knowledge 15 years ago is the only reason these tactics weren't used then as wel. Your opinion on the raid scene doesn't matter as you have already stated you don't raid. It's funny how much someone will bitch about something that they don't even partake in. Perhaps p99 isn't the server for you if the only way you can suggest to fix something is to make completely unclassic changes to it...

[Ravager]

The lack of knowledge 15 years ago is the only reason these tactics weren't used then as wel. Your opinion on the raid scene doesn't matter as you have already stated you don't raid. It's funny how much someone will bitch about something that they don't even partake in. Perhaps p99 isn't the server for you if the only way you can suggest to fix something is to make completely unclassic changes to it...

Why would he raid if it sucks? He'd probably raid if it didn't suck. Your argument sucks.

[bum3]

Why would he raid if it sucks? He'd probably raid if it didn't suck. Your argument sucks.

I'm agreeing with Ravager for the first time.

15 years ago the tactics weren't used because, at least on my server, when a raid was in a zone pulling.. say fear. No other guild was allowed to zone in to disrupt or compete. This changed in Velious when guilds were allowed to each take a hall. So we had a council that was formed and created rotations to keep from being disbanded by the server GMs and new guilds entering the raid force had to be given chances in the rotations. Was this not the case with every server?

[Phatez]

Eh...Still pretty trivial. The only thing that would completely change gameplay mechanics is rooting of Dragons. Which won't happen on P99.

You must have take a break from the raid scene. The way dragons were pulled was with a rogue bound at ZI (doesn't work now because leash) and the way trains were done was with a wizard bound in north(doesn't work because leash). So yea... it completely changes the mechanics on how things were pulled.

[Sancta]

Seeing the widespread abuse of clickies on the server, it's time to take a serious look into disabling this major crutch that the so-called raiders utilize to conquer content.

1. Remove recharging items.

2. Make significant nerfs to said items that people seem intent on exploiting. (clicky complete heals, DA idols, easily obtained clicky slow items, etc.)

3. Seeing it is near impossible to stop all the exploitive tactics p99 raiders are intent on using, raid mobs, particularly dragons need to be rooted or have such a tight leash they cannot be pulled to any zonelines, period. This will force the fights to happen as they always were meant to.

Make the raiders actually have to fight and raid the way EQ1 was designed to, and stop this abomination of cheating the system for pixels. These whining, exploit-using players have milked dragons for easy pixels far too long, and it's time to make p99 raiding great again.

Crawling to big raid bosses, the intrigue and build up is what made raiding so exciting on classic. The insta-gib, pull to the zoneline crap these players literally pull should be stopped, and pixels should be earned from this point on.

These changes alone would create a far more immersive experience while raiding, and a true fulfillment of accomplishing something in an elfsim would be present again.

hardcore raiders would finally have the true challenge of competing against one another as they always remind us they want more than anything, that being a true competition of the best raid guilds against one another, proving who has what it really takes to conquer the games content in the way it was meant to be.

Remove socking, and "racing", and bring back raiding and crawling.



***Yes, maybe some of these changes wouldn't be "classic", but let's be real here players here on p99 are not playing with the same (lack) of knowledge players on live (classic) had with regards to all the tricks and exploits they now are aware of and intent on using. Seeing these same players have no self control and will always take the easiest road provided to milk maximum pixels for minimal effort, the devs here have no choice but to alter the raid meta with significant changes and rooting mobs/nerfing clickies would be a good start.

I honestly think you have access to, and partake in, a wide variety of drugs on a daily basis without rest.

Just because you couldn't cut it raiding on p99 and now your current guild can't compete or have a rotation doesn't mean mechanics should change to suit your personal needs. Every person past 50 who plays this game and knows about clickies uses clickies.

[Maner]

I'm agreeing with Ravager for the first time.

15 years ago the tactics weren't used because, at least on my server, when a raid was in a zone pulling.. say fear. No other guild was allowed to zone in to disrupt or compete. This changed in Velious when guilds were allowed to each take a hall. So we had a council that was formed and created rotations to keep from being disbanded by the server GMs and new guilds entering the raid force had to be given chances in the rotations. Was this not the case with every server?

There were no rotations for anything on xev for instance, NToV went to whoever was fastest and got aary. They then got NToV for 2 days after everything was spawned, everything else was a straight race while in era. There were 2 sometimes 3 guilds on the top all racing for the same mobs. There was no PnP policy enforced by guides on Xev. Shit I remember one instance in sky where we cleared all the way up to 7 just to have some group who camped out up there log in and kill all the mobs that could drop the mage crown while we were on 6. The guide who responded told us tough luck.

The competition on Xev ended up just getting worse as Lucan and PoP were released where guilds would cockblock others from getting flags and keys. Just because you remember rotation doesn't mean every other or even a majority of servers used them, let alone enforced them. I just don't understand the entitlement people have when they think they deserve the same shot at stuff while committing 1/5th the time as other people do.

[Lazie]

You must have take a break from the raid scene. The way dragons were pulled was with a rogue bound at ZI (doesn't work now because leash) and the way trains were done was with a wizard bound in north(doesn't work because leash). So yea... it completely changes the mechanics on how things were pulled.

:rolleyes:

Use necros, bards and Coth Bots for the same results.

[Lhancelot]

I honestly think you have access to, and partake in, a wide variety of drugs on a daily basis without rest.

Just because you couldn't cut it raiding on p99 and now your current guild can't compete or have a rotation doesn't mean mechanics should change to suit your personal needs. Every person past 50 who plays this game and knows about clickies uses clickies.

Personal insults and assumptions aside, I hardly think what you do on raids here is remotely competitive.

You basically can't beat 17 year old game content without exploiting an endless amount of clickies or pulling mobs to zonelines to kill.

I don't raid here because it's full of toxic, greedy neckbeards that lose all moral compass as soon as they see pixels they want.

me not raiding here has nothing to do with not being able to do it, but instead more so of me not wanting to do it.

Devs made changes. Devs will be making more changes. Deal with it.

[Maner]

Personal insults and assumptions aside, I hardly think what you do on raids here is remotely competitive.

You basically can't beat 17 year old game content without exploiting an endless amount of clickies or pulling mobs to zonelines to kill.

I don't raid here because it's full of toxic, greedy neckbeards that lose all moral compass as soon as they see pixels they want.

me not raiding here has nothing to do with not being able to do it, but instead more so of me not wanting to do it.

Devs made changes. Devs will be making more changes. Deal with it.

The idea that using game mechanics so drastically reduce the amount of time you have to sit at your computer is wrong is just stupid. A lot of things change with better technology, including when applied to older games, one of those things is how content is completed using the most efficient means possible. In reality you are upset at the original developers for not foreseeing how these mechanics would be used with 15-20 years of technological advancements. No one is exploiting mechanics with the pulls that are being used, as they could all be done on live in era if you had the ability. I know that we AoEed down fear on live along with seb, while it was harder due to the restrictions involving bandwidth and processors, it was still done.

I don't think you understand just how detrimental to the server forcing rotations and crawling would be unless they fixed the non classic problems that make it impossible to coth into NToV safely. I don't know of anyone who wants to spend 3 hours clearing to their 1 hour FTEd mob just to finally kill the mob get another FTE and do it all over again.

Plain a simple is that the PnP was not universally enforced by sony and rotations were not something that happened on all servers. Trying to claim that both are classic is just ignorant and impossible to prove. Using recollection to try and prove otherwise, especially when admitting that the only reason the guides enforced a rotation was because a majority of the guilds on the server agreed to it just proves it wasn't a universal policy.

I don't know why you think everyone who raids is greedy or a neck beard, I have been in Forsaken/Aftermath since the beginning and have won maybe 10 items in that time, and no it isn't because I don't have the dkp to spend. Just because you prefer to generalize out of ignorance doesn't make it a true statement or observation

No one is complaining about the changes the devs have made. people are just pointing out that while the more casual raiding entities might think its a benefit to them, they are clearly wrong and don't know what this change is actually going to entail for them. Ask CSG how clearing to iki on 3 occasions went. The one "crawl" that actually worked out for them was when they COTHed to near trips to kill sev... that coth alone skipped them 99% of the actual crawl. Removing binds isn't going to change anything as the TL and rez box pulling isn't a thing anymore. All it would alleviate would be having mages bound at coth spots, and the fix for that is just leveling mages or bring back into action the coth teams from before racing, and just never moving them. No one on this server has tried to do a legitimate NToV crawl from eashen to trips/twins so the idea that this change will allow that to happen is just a joke.

[Lhancelot]

I don't think you understand just how detrimental to the server forcing rotations and crawling would be unless they fixed the non classic problems that make it impossible to coth into NToV safely. I don't know of anyone who wants to spend 3 hours clearing to their 1 hour FTEd mob just to finally kill the mob get another FTE and do it all over again.


This just sounds lazy and pixel greedy tbh. You guys are so spoiled by using cheese tactics that any semblance of a challenge for raid mob pixels scares the crap out of you.

Raids should take more coordination and actual tactics than the stuff you guys pull here. The easier it is for you to soak up your dragon loots the better, in your opinion.

The fights should be hard and challenging, and you should have to crawl and kill to get to them pots of awesome pixels.

Circumventing fights and cheesing pulls with clickies is lame. Hopefully they remove bind points and root the mobs so the cheese stops and real raiding can begin.

Maybe then the raid scene would be more appealing and inclusive if more mobs were up and took longer to take down instead of this crap you guys do.

[Maner]

This just sounds lazy and pixel greedy tbh. You guys are so spoiled by using cheese tactics that any semblance of a challenge for raid mob pixels scares the crap out of you.

Raids should take more coordination and actual tactics than the stuff you guys pull here. The easier it is for you to soak up your dragon loots the better, in your opinion.

The fights should be hard and challenging, and you should have to crawl and kill to get to them pots of awesome pixels.

Circumventing fights and cheesing pulls with clickies is lame. Hopefully they remove bind points and root the mobs so the cheese stops and real raiding can begin.

Maybe then the raid scene would be more appealing and inclusive if more mobs were up and took longer to take down instead of this crap you guys do.

Why do you seem to think that clearing trash is some kind of challenge? both A/A cleared to bosses when velious launched, when none of the other raid entities were brave enough to enter. And it was a leap frogging train fest that would end in hour long CRs from both groups. To be honest, the coordination it takes to set up the pulls and train aways is far more than tanking and killing NToV trash, even flurry drakes.

How is anyone circumventing fights other than choosing not to kill all or any of the trash? The dragons are being killed the same way at the entrance as they would be anywhere else, AoEs are avoided and tanks are healed. Rooting the mobs was not classic and it actually made them much easier to fight as you could preslow and debuf every one of them, that wasn't immune. It also made gating irrelevant and made it much easier to avoid AoE since you never had to worry about pushing things around corners. Bind points already don't matter now since you cant train away or TL pull so your argument there just reinforces your lack of knowledge about the raid scene. Nothing about the individual fights is hard and challenging, maybe it was on dial up with shitty computers but that has changed as well. You are either living in denial or are just unable to comprehend the difference between the game 15 years ago and now.

Basically your arguments do nothing but prove you don't know what youre talking about... or you really are just so bad at this game that you think clearing trash for 3 hours is challenging.... If that is the case, you must think PoG is the most challenging zone in the game...

[Lhancelot]

Why do you seem to think that clearing trash is some kind of challenge? both A/A cleared to bosses when velious launched, when none of the other raid entities were brave enough to enter. And it was a leap frogging train fest that would end in hour long CRs from both groups. To be honest, the coordination it takes to set up the pulls and train aways is far more than tanking and killing NToV trash, even flurry drakes.

How is anyone circumventing fights other than choosing not to kill all or any of the trash? The dragons are being killed the same way at the entrance as they would be anywhere else, AoEs are avoided and tanks are healed. Rooting the mobs was not classic and it actually made them much easier to fight as you could preslow and debuf every one of them, that wasn't immune. It also made gating irrelevant and made it much easier to avoid AoE since you never had to worry about pushing things around corners. Bind points already don't matter now since you cant train away or TL pull so your argument there just reinforces your lack of knowledge about the raid scene. Nothing about the individual fights is hard and challenging, maybe it was on dial up with shitty computers but that has changed as well. You are either living in denial or are just unable to comprehend the difference between the game 15 years ago and now.

Basically your arguments do nothing but prove you don't know what youre talking about... or you really are just so bad at this game that you think clearing trash for 3 hours is challenging.... If that is the case, you must think PoG is the most challenging zone in the game...

Your only argument is that you shouldn't have to kill anything to get to the dragons, you should just waltz in, cheese the pulls and get pixels, because it shouldn't require any crawling or actual dungeon fighting. Do you hear yourself?

It's pretty clear your not objective about it, but that's no surprise seeing you are going to defend the present system of pixel collecting that you call "competitive raid racing," as it grants you the fastest possible way for you to get said pixels.

They should just remove every mob from the zone then, seeing nothing matters except for the loot on the dragons.

Essentially that's all you have figured out how to do, you figured out a way to eliminate the challenge of the zone by cheese pulling mobs to zonelines. Bravo.

[Maner]

Your only argument is that you shouldn't have to kill anything to get to the dragons, you should just waltz in, cheese the pulls and get pixels, because it shouldn't require any crawling or actual dungeon fighting. Do you hear yourself?

It's pretty clear your not objective about it, but that's no surprise seeing you are going to defend the present system of pixel collecting that you call "competitive raid racing," as it grants you the fastest possible way for you to get said pixels.

They should just remove every mob from the zone then, seeing nothing matters except for the loot on the dragons.

Essentially that's all you have figured out how to do, you figured out a way to eliminate the challenge of the zone by cheese pulling mobs to zonelines. Bravo.

That isn't an argument I am using at all actually. I am straight telling you that clearing NToV trash is not a challenge and has nothing to do with individual dragon encounters.

"Fastest way possible" if I was looking for a fast way to get pixels it wouldn't be 10 items in 2 years but sure. I think racing is stupid, however it did actually allow the less hardcore guilds a viable shot at ToV dragons. Again you continue to prove your ignorance on the subject, not to mention your lack of comprehension. Stick to what is actually said and not what you assume based on your generalizations and assumptions, clearly they are not educated enough.

Is it the challenge of the zone or the challenge of individual encounters you're looking for? they are not and never have been the same thing. Flurry drakes were always stupid, red wurms were always harder than white wurms, unslowable dragons are always harder than slowable ones. Nothing you are complaining about is relevant in any way, trash was trained away and cothed past on live just the same as it will be here even if they root everything in NToV. In fact it will be much easier to train trash away and never have to kill it when or if they decide to root dragons.

You know when you're in a group and the puller splits a named out for you? you just skipped content in order to get to the named mob, its the same thing.

I think the most important part here is that no one is forcing you to enter the raid scene and your singular opinion in now way will alter that. You couldn't cut it before and you will never cut it on P99 as far as raiding goes. You should just stick to leveling alts and giving up pre 60 because you clearly cant hack it.

[Vianna]

Yeah.

[Lhancelot]

Stick to what is actually said and not what you assume based on your generalizations and assumptions...


Raid scene sucks. Change is good. Nutshell.

[Pezy]

Devs made changes. Devs will be making more changes. Deal with it.

You seem to be the only person here having a problem dealing with whatever it is that crawled up your butt.

[Jonabis]

That isn't an argument I am using at all actually. I am straight telling you that clearing NToV trash is not a challenge and has nothing to do with individual dragon encounters.

"Fastest way possible" if I was looking for a fast way to get pixels it wouldn't be 10 items in 2 years but sure. I think racing is stupid, however it did actually allow the less hardcore guilds a viable shot at ToV dragons. Again you continue to prove your ignorance on the subject, not to mention your lack of comprehension. Stick to what is actually said and not what you assume based on your generalizations and assumptions, clearly they are not educated enough.

Is it the challenge of the zone or the challenge of individual encounters you're looking for? they are not and never have been the same thing. Flurry drakes were always stupid, red wurms were always harder than white wurms, unslowable dragons are always harder than slowable ones. Nothing you are complaining about is relevant in any way, trash was trained away and cothed past on live just the same as it will be here even if they root everything in NToV. In fact it will be much easier to train trash away and never have to kill it when or if they decide to root dragons.

You know when you're in a group and the puller splits a named out for you? you just skipped content in order to get to the named mob, its the same thing.

I think the most important part here is that no one is forcing you to enter the raid scene and your singular opinion in now way will alter that. You couldn't cut it before and you will never cut it on P99 as far as raiding goes. You should just stick to leveling alts and giving up pre 60 because you clearly cant hack it.

Very few dragons or raid bosses at this point are a challenge to any guild or coalition setting foot into velious raid zones these days. It's quite obvious the devs want players here motivated by the desire to work together as a whole unit twords victory.

My opinion is my own, but neither you, nor I make the decisions on this. I would say if it desparages you so, there are several other gaming communities you may enjoy. No one is forcing anyone to play here, I hope.

[Dreenk317]

That isn't an argument I am using at all actually. I am straight telling you that clearing NToV trash is not a challenge and has nothing to do with individual dragon encounters.

"Fastest way possible" if I was looking for a fast way to get pixels it wouldn't be 10 items in 2 years but sure. I think racing is stupid, however it did actually allow the less hardcore guilds a viable shot at ToV dragons. Again you continue to prove your ignorance on the subject, not to mention your lack of comprehension. Stick to what is actually said and not what you assume based on your generalizations and assumptions, clearly they are not educated enough.

Is it the challenge of the zone or the challenge of individual encounters you're looking for? they are not and never have been the same thing. Flurry drakes were always stupid, red wurms were always harder than white wurms, unslowable dragons are always harder than slowable ones. Nothing you are complaining about is relevant in any way, trash was trained away and cothed past on live just the same as it will be here even if they root everything in NToV. In fact it will be much easier to train trash away and never have to kill it when or if they decide to root dragons.

You know when you're in a group and the puller splits a named out for you? you just skipped content in order to get to the named mob, its the same thing.

I think the most important part here is that no one is forcing you to enter the raid scene and your singular opinion in now way will alter that. You couldn't cut it before and you will never cut it on P99 as far as raiding goes. You should just stick to leveling alts and giving up pre 60 because you clearly cant hack it.



If you think keeping a raid force large enough to crawl through NToV together, motivated, and following directions for as long as would be necessary to crawl to the nameds isn't a challenge, then you don't know what you are talking about.

This is gonna show us just who the "good" guilds are. And separate out the rest.

[Lazie]

If you think keeping a raid force large enough to crawl through NToV together, motivated, and following directions for as long as would be necessary to crawl to the nameds isn't a challenge, then you don't know what you are talking about.

This is gonna show us just who the "good" guilds are. And separate out the rest.

Takes roughly 5 hours to crawl and kill most of NtoV. We killed Kreizen, Cekenar, Zlexak, Sevalak, Jorrleag, and Lady N today on Takproject in about 3 and a half hours crawling from Aary's Pit with 44 characters and only 2 Monks splitting it. On P99 with 2 guilds the size of A/A and 20 Monks splitting they could do the same in half the time if they coordinated with each other properly.

[Maner]

Very few dragons or raid bosses at this point are a challenge to any guild or coalition setting foot into velious raid zones these days. It's quite obvious the devs want players here motivated by the desire to work together as a whole unit twords victory.

My opinion is my own, but neither you, nor I make the decisions on this. I would say if it desparages you so, there are several other gaming communities you may enjoy. No one is forcing anyone to play here, I hope.

I realize quite well that I am not the person who makes the changes to this server, I never said I was. I also have never said that I think the changes that were made are bad or wrong, personally I am more than fine with them as the racing scene was stagnating, this will at least change it up and possibly peak some interest again from people who were taking a break.

I am honestly not sure how you could come to the conclusion that these changes disparaged me in any way. The guild I am in adapted quickly and still cleared a big portion of ToV. You seem to think that this has already altered the raid scene, but in reality it hasn't.

[Sancta]

Devs made changes. Devs will be making more changes. Deal with it.

I think you're misunderstanding, many don't have an issue with the changes at all. Seems you do though.

Casual raiding guilds will have a tougher time competing than they already do with these changes. I wouldn't mind seeing multiple guilds competing on the same level rather than the same two, spices things up and makes it more interesting. And this is coming from someone who is in the top 2.

[Sancta]

If you think keeping a raid force large enough to crawl through NToV together, motivated, and following directions for as long as would be necessary to crawl to the nameds isn't a challenge, then you don't know what you are talking about.

This is gonna show us just who the "good" guilds are. And separate out the rest.

What you're describing could be a challenge for a fresh group of 40 people that are just starting raiding, don't know the strats, and trying to figure everything out. Problem is this game is about to be 18 years old and many people on this server have a long history of everquestin'. So I wouldn't agree that it's really much of a challenge and would really say it's more about the motivation.

[Dreenk317]

What you're describing could be a challenge for a fresh group of 40 people that are just starting raiding, don't know the strats, and trying to figure everything out. Problem is this game is about to be 18 years old and many people on this server have a long history of everquestin'. So I wouldn't agree that it's really much of a challenge and would really say it's more about the motivation.

Then why, if it's not difficult, and people aren't just after the fast and easy pixels, as so many claim. Does this not ever happen here?

[Sancta]

Then why, if it's not difficult, and people aren't just after the fast and easy pixels, as so many claim. Does this not ever happen here?

It isn't difficult, it's just time consuming. Some people like crawling, others don't. It's more challenging to get things solo into camp as well as reduce the time it takes to kill actual dragons and not measly whelps. Killing big dragons way more fun than killing little ones. I personally love doing the Zlandi fight myself.

[Pokesan]

spin all you like but teija's meltdown in the bugs forum says it all

[Pokesan]

hi grocer good morning

[indiscriminate_hater]

good thread

[Dreenk317]

It isn't difficult, it's just time consuming. Some people like crawling, others don't. It's more challenging to get things solo into camp as well as reduce the time it takes to kill actual dragons and not measly whelps. Killing big dragons way more fun than killing little ones. I personally love doing the Zlandi fight myself.

Sneak pulling a mob out of a train with the old mechanics was as simple and trivializing as it gets. To say that sneak pulling out of a train is more challenging than crawling through the whole dungeon is just silly.

[Lhancelot]

Sneak pulling a mob out of a train with the old mechanics was as simple and trivializing as it gets. To say that sneak pulling out of a train is more challenging than crawling through the whole dungeon is just silly.

This here QFT. ^^^

The pixels running through neckbeard veins is strong. They actually have themselves convinced that instagibing dragons at zonelines and all the other cheese tactics they have been using for years now is competitive and takes more skill than actually fighting the fights as they are supposed to be fought in the zones up to the dragons.

I always thought part of the challenge when raiding dragons is not only the degree of difficulty of the dragon fight itself, but also the amount of time needed to dedicate to getting to the dragon for the kill. Silly me for thinking that.

These guys want their pixels easy, and they enjoy having them on lockdown due to them having the most dedicated sockers and "racers" available any time of the day.

To the Devs: Please make the raids harder, force the neckbeards to actually work for their pixels. Nerf clickies, remove bind points, and perma root dragons at their spawn points since the neckbeards refuse to do anything but find ways to exploit the mobs and zones by finding ways to circumvent the crawls to the dragons.

Turn the raids into classic style raids which require actual cooperation between the raid guilds. This will also make high end raids more available to less sock-filled raid guilds when the mobs actually stay up longer than 10 mins after spawning.

If the encounter requires more than 10 minutes to engage and kill, they won't be so easily farmed at the drop of a hat.

[RDawg816]

If we're trying for harder raids, you could make the named mobs summon the dragons in their area for assistance and/or make them rooted (but have them summon anyone with aggro starting at 100% instead of 97%.)

[Pokesan]

this raid change that primarily impacts NTOV bosses actually hurts casuals the most because (indecipherable autistic screeching)

[Maner]

This here QFT. ^^^

The pixels running through neckbeard veins is strong. They actually have themselves convinced that instagibing dragons at zonelines and all the other cheese tactics they have been using for years now is competitive and takes more skill than actually fighting the fights as they are supposed to be fought in the zones up to the dragons.

I always thought part of the challenge when raiding dragons is not only the degree of difficulty of the dragon fight itself, but also the amount of time needed to dedicate to getting to the dragon for the kill. Silly me for thinking that.

These guys want their pixels easy, and they enjoy having them on lockdown due to them having the most dedicated sockers and "racers" available any time of the day.

To the Devs: Please make the raids harder, force the neckbeards to actually work for their pixels. Nerf clickies, remove bind points, and perma root dragons at their spawn points since the neckbeards refuse to do anything but find ways to exploit the mobs and zones by finding ways to circumvent the crawls to the dragons.

Turn the raids into classic style raids which require actual cooperation between the raid guilds. This will also make high end raids more available to less sock-filled raid guilds when the mobs actually stay up longer than 10 mins after spawning.

If the encounter requires more than 10 minutes to engage and kill, they won't be so easily farmed at the drop of a hat.

Again, your lack of knowledge regarding the raid scene is apparent. Everything you just suggested to change would in no way make you any harder tor the top guilds. Rioting dragons let's you pre slow and train away all the trash even easier, bind points no longer matter because no one is TL pulling, and the clickies are a bigger crutch for the more casual guilds than for A/A.

It requires more coordination to work out train ups and pulls than it does to kill the trash lol.

They have had the pixels on lock down because instead of actually entering the raid scene little kids like you would rather bitch and complain demanding things change. You not enjoying the content doesnt matter and no one honestly cares. It's why Sirken made a post literally telling you to shut up because it isn't going to change lol.

What does raiding a dragon have to do with clearing its trash? Are you saying that in live if you could pull out a raid mob without killing its trash you wouldn't have? Even on live I never saw anyone killing all the dwarves in drains room or all the Giants in KTs. I never saw raids clear from WL to yelinak. So obviously your version of what is fun isn't the same as everyone's and that won't change no matter how often you state your opinion on it.

It's like all you have in life is you're hatred of "neckbeards" did you lose out on some loot to someone who put more effort into getting it than you did? Are you upset because none of your characters will have the best gear in the game handed to them? Honestly child, you're on the wrong server. All you have done is repeat the same tired opinion, one which you have been Repeatedly told was incorrect. You must be a liberal...

[Maner]

Then why, if it's not difficult, and people aren't just after the fast and easy pixels, as so many claim. Does this not ever happen here?

That is something you have to ask CSG. They are the ones who pushed for dungeon crawls but have never actually accomplished one in any zone.

[Lhancelot]

Again, your lack of knowledge regarding the raid scene is apparent. Everything you just suggested to change would in no way make you any harder tor the top guilds. Rioting dragons let's you pre slow and train away all the trash even easier, bind points no longer matter because no one is TL pulling, and the clickies are a bigger crutch for the more casual guilds than for A/A.

It requires more coordination to work out train ups and pulls than it does to kill the trash lol.

They have had the pixels on lock down because instead of actually entering the raid scene little kids like you would rather bitch and complain demanding things change. You not enjoying the content doesnt matter and no one honestly cares. It's why Sirken made a post literally telling you to shut up because it isn't going to change lol.

What does raiding a dragon have to do with clearing its trash? Are you saying that in live if you could pull out a raid mob without killing its trash you wouldn't have? Even on live I never saw anyone killing all the dwarves in drains room or all the Giants in KTs. I never saw raids clear from WL to yelinak. So obviously your version of what is fun isn't the same as everyone's and that won't change no matter how often you state your opinion on it.

It's like all you have in life is you're hatred of "neckbeards" did you lose out on some loot to someone who put more effort into getting it than you did? Are you upset because none of your characters will have the best gear in the game handed to them? Honestly child, you're on the wrong server. All you have done is repeat the same tired opinion, one which you have been Repeatedly told was incorrect. You must be a liberal...

You take everything very personal and throw personal insults at others who do not. You also seem adverse to changes or possible incoming changes... You must be an autistic conservative.

[Mythanor]

Again, your lack of knowledge regarding the raid scene is apparent. Everything you just suggested to change would in no way make you any harder tor the top guilds. Rioting dragons let's you pre slow and train away all the trash even easier, bind points no longer matter because no one is TL pulling, and the clickies are a bigger crutch for the more casual guilds than for A/A.

It requires more coordination to work out train ups and pulls than it does to kill the trash lol.

They have had the pixels on lock down because instead of actually entering the raid scene little kids like you would rather bitch and complain demanding things change. You not enjoying the content doesnt matter and no one honestly cares. It's why Sirken made a post literally telling you to shut up because it isn't going to change lol.

What does raiding a dragon have to do with clearing its trash? Are you saying that in live if you could pull out a raid mob without killing its trash you wouldn't have? Even on live I never saw anyone killing all the dwarves in drains room or all the Giants in KTs. I never saw raids clear from WL to yelinak. So obviously your version of what is fun isn't the same as everyone's and that won't change no matter how often you state your opinion on it.

It's like all you have in life is you're hatred of "neckbeards" did you lose out on some loot to someone who put more effort into getting it than you did? Are you upset because none of your characters will have the best gear in the game handed to them? Honestly child, you're on the wrong server. All you have done is repeat the same tired opinion, one which you have been Repeatedly told was incorrect. You must be a liberal...

TL;DR; if you dont neckbeard, you dont have skill. This changes sucks, but only for CSG... (random insults about liberal/ trump lover/ your mom/ religion thrown in).... you're welcome

[Maner]

You take everything very personal and throw personal insults at others who do not. You also seem adverse to changes or possible incoming changes... You must be an autistic conservative.

You must not be able to read then. I have embraced the changes and have repeatedly said I have no problem with them or any future changes. Your issue obviously stems from a lack of comprehension and no actual friends. I haven't taken anything personally except when you clearly don't comprehend what is sad and spin it. You have admitted that you don't raid and the majority of your comments reinforce that and prove you don't have a clue about the actual raid scene.

The raid scene will never cater to people like you who demand everything be handed to them. If you aren't ever going to be willing to commit to it then just comprehend now you will never get BiS gear on this server. If that doesn't bother you than neither should the raid rules as obviously you're not raiding. That is further proven by your ignorant feedback regarding what should also be changed in the current raid environment. Basically kiddo, your opinion is uninformed and ultimately doesn't matter since nothing you have suggested would help or change anything.

Keep using your go to phrases of "cheeseing" and "neckbeards" while having no actual idea what either of those things are

TL;DR; if you dont neckbeard, you dont have skill. This changes sucks, but only for CSG... (random insults about liberal/ trump lover/ your mom/ religion thrown in).... you're welcome

Where did I ever equate staring at a wall to skill? I said commit the effort meaning the time. Where did I mention his religion or mother? And no, I didn't vote for trump. However the "give me give me give me" mentality has always been associated with the liberal left. Clearly you didn't or couldn't read it judging by how off base the tldr was. Thanks for trying though

[kotton05]

Europa has crawled north and Rustle crawled north while Shit wasn't in window.more than once. It's not bad just takes time.

Also sirken was watching the last Windows with the idea of what needs changed. I sat outside with him while kelz cried to him and he called you all psycho's for not coming up with a rational way of splitting up pixels.

[Maner]

Europa has crawled north and Rustle crawled north while Shit wasn't in window.more than once. It's not bad just takes time.

Also sirken was watching the last Windows with the idea of what needs changed. I sat outside with him while kelz cried to him and he called you all psycho's for not coming up with a rational way of splitting up pixels.

CSG got a coth to triplets to kill sev, that is not a crawl. They have never made it crawling past ikitar actually. And killing trash when nothing is in window just seems like a waste as you don't have competition and people leaping past you.

[Skew]

The last time a competitive crawl occured in ToV was Day 1 Velious with Rampage going left and Forsaken going right. All downhill since then.

[Lazie]

You are wrong about Rooting mobs not changing anything now though Manerz. With leash aggro range you can't keep the trash kited now indefinitely.

[Sancta]

Sneak pulling a mob out of a train with the old mechanics was as simple and trivializing as it gets. To say that sneak pulling out of a train is more challenging than crawling through the whole dungeon is just silly.

We're talking about the pulling mechanics and how they now there big guy. It completely shuts out casual raiders who couldn't crawl to bosses and kill them before, so how will they now with pulling dragons being harder?

Some of the closer ones aren't that hard to pull to entrance but for most now you either have to CoTH to their location to kill them with a challenging pull or crawl through hours upon hours of time consuming easy trash that puts everyone to sleep while not making the dragon pull any easier.

Say the rules were changed that you have to clear to dragons, what do you think will happen? The casuals will suddenly have way more time on their hands to clear to dragons? And then still pull off hard pulls when they get there? Because alotta big dragons come with little adds, most pulls are still challenging even once you clear to the dragons. Clearing trash does not make most of these pulls any easier. Some Pulls come with 3 big dragons or two big dragons (see twins and trips). You still have to split properly with coordination and knowledge of mechanics, that's not going away no matter how many trash you clear.

How is killing trash right now more of a challenge than pulling some of these dragons?

Serious question: Have you ever step foot inside ToV?

This here QFT. ^^^

The pixels running through neckbeard veins is strong. They actually have themselves convinced that instagibing dragons at zonelines and all the other cheese tactics they have been using for years now is competitive and takes more skill than actually fighting the fights as they are supposed to be fought in the zones up to the dragons.

I always thought part of the challenge when raiding dragons is not only the degree of difficulty of the dragon fight itself, but also the amount of time needed to dedicate to getting to the dragon for the kill. Silly me for thinking that.

These guys want their pixels easy, and they enjoy having them on lockdown due to them having the most dedicated sockers and "racers" available any time of the day.

To the Devs: Please make the raids harder, force the neckbeards to actually work for their pixels. Nerf clickies, remove bind points, and perma root dragons at their spawn points since the neckbeards refuse to do anything but find ways to exploit the mobs and zones by finding ways to circumvent the crawls to the dragons.

Turn the raids into classic style raids which require actual cooperation between the raid guilds. This will also make high end raids more available to less sock-filled raid guilds when the mobs actually stay up longer than 10 mins after spawning.


So you're saying that clearing to dragons as it was "designed" is a challenge not only because of the big dragon you fight in the end but also the hours upon hours of time wasted killing little whelps. The challenge here being the ungodly amount of hours spent sitting in front of the screen? Where is the challenge in that? Really curious, you think the top guilds will lose to casual guilds when the challenge is "Lets see who can clear this trash faster?" I'm convinced now you're just a troll TBH.

Making raids harder isn't going to make guilds cooperate. (See: Last week where dragons were up for a huge amount of hours and no CSG was in sight attempting to clear trash).



If the encounter requires more than 10 minutes to engage and kill, they won't be so easily farmed at the drop of a hat.

So let me get this straight, if a raid mob takes more than 10 minutes to engage and kill, say an hour, this means that CSG will have a better chance to get more raid mobs? Clearing trash to a mob will require way more work/time from a CSG than A/A. And we're talking about both types using the same exact strats. Repeat: You still have to split properly with coordination and knowledge of mechanics, that's not going away no matter how many trash you clear.

I can't believe I fell for this troll for such a long time, I blame myself.

[Lhancelot]

We're talking about the pulling mechanics and how they now there big guy. It completely shuts out casual raiders who couldn't crawl to bosses and kill them before, so how will they now with pulling dragons being harder?

Some of the closer ones aren't that hard to pull to entrance but for most now you either have to CoTH to their location to kill them with a challenging pull or crawl through hours upon hours of time consuming easy trash that puts everyone to sleep while not making the dragon pull any easier.

Say the rules were changed that you have to clear to dragons, what do you think will happen? The casuals will suddenly have way more time on their hands to clear to dragons? And then still pull off hard pulls when they get there? Because alotta big dragons come with little adds, most pulls are still challenging even once you clear to the dragons. Clearing trash does not make most of these pulls any easier. Some Pulls come with 3 big dragons or two big dragons (see twins and trips). You still have to split properly with coordination and knowledge of mechanics, that's not going away no matter how many trash you clear.

How is killing trash right now more of a challenge than pulling some of these dragons?

Serious question: Have you ever step foot inside ToV?



So you're saying that clearing to dragons as it was "designed" is a challenge not only because of the big dragon you fight in the end but also the hours upon hours of time wasted killing little whelps. The challenge here being the ungodly amount of hours spent sitting in front of the screen? Where is the challenge in that? Really curious, you think the top guilds will lose to casual guilds when the challenge is "Lets see who can clear this trash faster?" I'm convinced now you're just a troll TBH.

Making raids harder isn't going to make guilds cooperate. (See: Last week where dragons were up for a huge amount of hours and no CSG was in sight attempting to clear trash).




So let me get this straight, if a raid mob takes more than 10 minutes to engage and kill, say an hour, this means that CSG will have a better chance to get more raid mobs? Clearing trash to a mob will require way more work/time from a CSG than A/A. And we're talking about both types using the same exact strats. Repeat: You still have to split properly with coordination and knowledge of mechanics, that's not going away no matter how many trash you clear.

I can't believe I fell for this troll for such a long time, I blame myself.

You disagree with me, so I must be a troll.

Obviously the grip of pixels has consumed you. It has destroyed your ability to reason and grasp the concept that sometimes other people just don't agree with one another.

It's clear you are on that side, and I am on this side. I have no problem with disagreeing with you, and accepting that we have diametrical points of view regarding raiding here.

You love the raiding here and find the racing/kiting/training mobs to zonelines/clicking endless clickies of heals/DA/etc. making the fights as easy as possible exhilarating and exciting while I find it cheap/pathetic/sad/redundant/unfulfilling.

To each their own.

I just would like to see major changes dropped on the raid scene here that created a better balance of raiding for all those who would like to raid.

Seeing that diplomacy is impossible with regards to the top end raid mobs, and they pose very little challenge to said guilds I feel like the degree of difficulty should be increased so the farming is more challenging and time consuming.

If the focus was on the raid battles, and not so much who batphones the fastest and who socks the longest, I think that would be an improvement and bottleneck the mobs a bit more allowing more guilds to get involved in the raid scene.

[Sancta]

You disagree with me, so I must be a troll.

No, you misunderstand, you are troll because you are clearly looking to get a rise from people that actually do raid and it's difficulty to see why you would take the stance that you do seeing as that stance/view point/fix hurts casual raiders such as yourself. To reiterate, your proposed changes are counter intuitive and only serve to help these "hardcore neckbeards", that you so solemnly hate, get more than they already do. Why shoot yourself in the foot? Oh, to get a rise out of the "hardcore neckbeards".


You love the raiding here and find the racing/kiting/training mobs to zonelines/clicking endless clickies of heals/DA/etc. making the fights as easy as possible exhilarating and exciting while I find it cheap/pathetic/sad/redundant/unfulfilling.

I think you're again forgetting that these same things are used by every single player/guild that exist on the server and is the most unclassic thing to ever be spewed on these forums, completely and totally dismantling what it is to play Everquest.




I just would like to see major changes dropped on the raid scene here that created a better balance of raiding for all those who would like to raid.

Seeing that diplomacy is impossible with regards to the top end raid mobs, and they pose very little challenge to said guilds I feel like the degree of difficulty should be increased so the farming is more challenging and time consuming.

If the focus was on the raid battles, and not so much who batphones the fastest and who socks the longest, I think that would be an improvement and bottleneck the mobs a bit more allowing more guilds to get involved in the raid scene.

Everyone would love raid changes, you think A/A likes to sit on the line, batphone, and log in at random times? No, they do not, but that is the name of the game and they are guilds devoted to contesting high end mobs with whatever the raid rules are, so they do it. They just don't go on the forums complaining about "GIMMIE FREE LOOTS BECAUSE WE EXIST, REMOVE CLICKIES AND BEND THE GAME TO MY WILL". They'll do what it takes with the rules that are in place.

bottleneck the mobs a bit more allowing more guilds to get involved in the raid scene

This is the exact reason I think that you are a legitimate troll. The amount of contradiction in that statement is unreal. You don't create bottlenecks to try to get other guilds in the raid scene, you remove bottlenecks so it's easier for them to get involved. It's clear that you don't even attempt to follow logic or any kind of real discussion at all so I'll take my leave, sorry for your loss.