What can and can't be "camped"

[Ravenfeather]

My apologies ahead of time is this sounds whiney, but I'd like a clarification, to make sure that I'm neither being a jerk nor letting myself be walked on by jerks. My understanding (from regular EQ days) was that if something wanders around except in a very small area, especially outdoors, you can't call it "camped", it's first-hit, first-served. That is, unless it has a camp, you can't camp it. (I'm specifically wondering about the crag spiders in EK, but I'd like to know what the policy is, in general, for future reference).

[Jimjam]

Regarding 'not being a jerk', as they say "good men don't need rules". If you're doing something with the mindset of 'well, technically I'm permitted to do this within the letter of the rules' you are probably still being a jerk.

Generally a camp is the static spawn mobs in the area immediately around you.

Generally you can only camp one item at a time, and if it drops you should give up camp to someone else.

Roaming mobs tend to be FFA, but if there is a limited supply in an area it is good to do a /who all (zone) and send a few tells before travelling there, otherwise both you and the other jerk already there will probably be making bad xp ;).

On the whole I think it is more important to act within the unwritten social rules of the game, which you can only really get a feel of by playing the game and interacting with others.

Note, the rules are written on a more gist basis, so just because you can dissect the words of the rules in a way that might support yourself/penalise the other guy doesn't mean the staff will be on either of your sides.

Also note, the staff are volunteers and might not always have the time or motivation to deal with everyone's stupid shit in the most cordial fashion.

[Dreenk317]

In my opinion, if you are at a mobs spawn, waiting for the pops, and killing them as they come. You are camping and have claim. If you are not at its spawn and actively clearing it, your not camping it.

[Ravenfeather]

Regarding 'not being a jerk', as they say "good men don't need rules". If you're doing something with the mindset of 'well, technically I'm permitted to do this within the letter of the rules' you are probably still being a jerk.

...

Also note, the staff are volunteers and might not always have the time or motivation to deal with everyone's stupid shit in the most cordial fashion.

Yep, I get both those things. Just want to get the general guidelines for future reference.

More-specifically, the situation was this: I log on in EK to kill a spider every few minutes (as healing/mana permits) with my mid-20s ranger. I get one, then notice a higher-level druid dragging a swam of spiders behind him. I figure, fine, they're wandering and hence anyone's to get (per my previous understanding of camping things) -- due to the level difference and him being SoW'ed, I'll be getting maybe one per cycle of spawns whenever one pops near me and he's busy on the other side of the zone. No big deal. Then he starts DoTing ones I'm in the process of pulling to the ramp. First few I figure are mistakes, either on his part, or me shooting one he'd already snared, so I don't say anything. Then he runs up and does it right in front of me. I send him a tell asking "what the hell?" and he replies, "Yeah, what the hell, I've been killing them for two hours and then you appear and screw up the spawns." Thankfully non-heated exchange of tells ensues. Thus, me asking here for future reference rather than ask staff, since I'm not asking for anyone to intervene. If what I did is considered camp-stealing, I don't to do it again and I owe the guy an apology, but if it's not, I don't want to be a doormat, either.

Sorry for the ramble.

[Crom]

In my opinion, if you are at a mobs spawn, waiting for the pops, and killing them as they come. You are camping and have claim. If you are not at its spawn and actively clearing it, your not camping it.

/this, if you are sitting at ONE spawn point killing it as it spawns it's camped, if you are moving around between diffrent spawns...you need to share with others.
Pick one spawn and stick to it...think there are several GM post about it.

But then again if you are extreamly rude to someone else about it don't be supprised if the GM's move you anyway.
They like it when you are polite and try to be fair.

[fadetree]

Yep, I get both those things. Just want to get the general guidelines for future reference.

More-specifically, the situation was this: I log on in EK to kill a spider every few minutes (as healing/mana permits) with my mid-20s ranger. I get one, then notice a higher-level druid dragging a swam of spiders behind him. I figure, fine, they're wandering and hence anyone's to get (per my previous understanding of camping things) -- due to the level difference and him being SoW'ed, I'll be getting maybe one per cycle of spawns whenever one pops near me and he's busy on the other side of the zone. No big deal. Then he starts DoTing ones I'm in the process of pulling to the ramp. First few I figure are mistakes, either on his part, or me shooting one he'd already snared, so I don't say anything. Then he runs up and does it right in front of me. I send him a tell asking "what the hell?" and he replies, "Yeah, what the hell, I've been killing them for two hours and then you appear and screw up the spawns." Thankfully non-heated exchange of tells ensues. Thus, me asking here for future reference rather than ask staff, since I'm not asking for anyone to intervene. If what I did is considered camp-stealing, I don't to do it again and I owe the guy an apology, but if it's not, I don't want to be a doormat, either.

Sorry for the ramble.

Tell him (politely) its FFA and he has no god given right to all the spawns. If GMs get involved he will lose.

[kotton05]

My buddy camped stormfeather. A highly trivial and sometimes contested camp that used to be just FTE. The rulings favored the person who was physically present and would engage within 30 secs. So if you're maintaining the spawn pt by physically being there it's yours. Just don't try to corpse and item and expect it to still be your camp if someone was waiting (GMs don't like that)

This applies to mostly static spawns.

[fastboy21]

Regarding 'not being a jerk', as they say "good men don't need rules".

I generally agree with this. Just follow the golden rule: i.e. don't be a jerk.

Rules can provide social norms though and when arguments arise from both parties doing what they honestly think is the right thing then social norms, however arbitrary, can help make the community a better place to play.

It isn't unreasonable to assume that you can "camp" a roaming mob with multiple PHs in an outdoor zone. You are in the zone with the purpose of hunting it down. You are, in a practical way, camping it. It also isn't unreasonable to assume that the same situation could be a first to engage situation. Neither assumption is the result of breaking the golden rule or being a jerk. They are both reasonable positions...and it will result in confrontation.

The social norm on p99 (i.e. the rule) is that you can't claim a roaming mob in an outdoor zone of this sort as a truly "owned" camp. The first player to engage it is the owner of the mob.

Knowing the social norm/rule helps to avoid unnecessary bickering.

[kotton05]

Let's use another example. If you're using an outdoor zone let's use a mob like quillmane who Has multiple spawn points. If you're only on one point and other buddy is killing the trigger then he spawns at a diff spawn point Quillmane will then be FFA and not a claimable mob even tho you triggered him. Most won't be waiting to snipe it but if they do they are well within their right to do so even tho it's a shit bag thing to do.

[Nixtar]

Be reasonable. Goes both ways though. Don't be that jerk who think an entire area is yours. It might be optimal for you if no one contests, in this case, crag spiders but that is simply not how the cookie crumbles.

That said, if you see several people already at it, it is going to suck for everyone.

You can even do the radical thing and group.

[Dreenk317]

Also, if a mob has been engaged by someone, via shooting an arrow, casting a snare, body pulling, whatever. Then that mob is claimed. What that Druid was doing when he was casting on your mobs is a clear violation of the rules unless you had more than 4 following you or were in need of help.

[Teako]

In your situation -- you are absolutely entitled to kill any/all free-standing roaming outdoor mobs. If they are not engaged immediately on spawn, they are not camped and are considered free game. Rather it's Pegasus roaming around Karana, AC in south ro, or spidery hell.. You should have politely requested him to stop KSing you - because that's what was happening. He wasn't 'defending his spawn', or whatever.. He was stealing kills off you trying to thug you out.

Next time, petition.

[Ravenfeather]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Sounds like my original understanding was more or less correct.

[Swish]

In my opinion...

Careful there :p

http://i.imgur.com/yLKAD0h.gif

[Sweettouch]

Make norrath great again

[Ravenfeather]

"'One with the wall' indeed!"

[tiadashi]

Yep, I get both those things. Just want to get the general guidelines for future reference.

More-specifically, the situation was this: I log on in EK to kill a spider every few minutes (as healing/mana permits) with my mid-20s ranger. I get one, then notice a higher-level druid dragging a swam of spiders behind him. I figure, fine, they're wandering and hence anyone's to get (per my previous understanding of camping things) -- due to the level difference and him being SoW'ed, I'll be getting maybe one per cycle of spawns whenever one pops near me and he's busy on the other side of the zone. No big deal. Then he starts DoTing ones I'm in the process of pulling to the ramp. First few I figure are mistakes, either on his part, or me shooting one he'd already snared, so I don't say anything. Then he runs up and does it right in front of me. I send him a tell asking "what the hell?" and he replies, "Yeah, what the hell, I've been killing them for two hours and then you appear and screw up the spawns." Thankfully non-heated exchange of tells ensues. Thus, me asking here for future reference rather than ask staff, since I'm not asking for anyone to intervene. If what I did is considered camp-stealing, I don't to do it again and I owe the guy an apology, but if it's not, I don't want to be a doormat, either.

Sorry for the ramble.

He was being a jerk no doubt about it - having said that tells before engaging in an area where other people are goes a very long way and can usually prevent bad interactions before they start - personally if i get even one not friendly tell or interaction I just leave seems easier to me

[supermonk]

I keep this convo with brakdaddy (http://imgur.com/lFdorle)in my back pocket when people want to try to lawyerquest. if a mob is down, it's camped as long as you are in the zone to answer cc's. one major aspect that many people forget is that you don't have to physically be at the spawn point to consider a mob camped as long as you are only camping that single spawn point. if you feel a group may contest, be at the camp before the mob spawns. once you or your group leave the zone or wipe, the camp is technically open per server rules.

too many people feel entitled to a camp just because they call a cc first. what annoys me is when a group 'claims' a camp when they haven't even cleared the first ph. it's proper etiquette to claim the camp the moment the ph is down, not while you're clearing down. if you're clearing down, clarify that on a cc (honesty will help you more than hurt you). another thing I despise is when a camp is called, but the group is secretly stalling (and the ph has been up for a while, 30min or more) until they can find the proper group to clear the ph.

above all, don't be rude or nerdrage. if you can't have a mature conversation bc the person is emotional, just put in a petition and wait for a GM.

[kotton05]

^

Yea but if you want to use brak quotes I can use one where he's describing a raid target where if it's contested you can ks xD

if at any point you're answering your CC and mobs are not dead (the ph or camp in question) anyone can come take your so called camp just to reiterate what you pointed out.


Overall it's best to just talk to who's around and if they're chill work with them ���� Otherwise good luck lawyering

[richice]

I've had a few situations when I used to kill the crag spiders in EK.

1) 2-3 of us (solo) would be doing our own thing, grabbing what we could kill.
2) 3-5 of us (3 grouped, 2 solo) would be doing our own thing, grabbing what we could kill.
3) A higher level would come in need of silk. I offered to sell all the silk I had so I could continue grinding exp. Every time this situation arose the higher level would take the silk, thank me, and leave. One time the person said they weren't allowed to trade outside the guild - I gave him my stacks for free, and they left.

Bottom line, those mobs are fair game, that druid should have let you have the couple to kill in the spawn time. However they were clearly there for silk, try offering some to them next time, you may even make some PP w/o having to go to EC!

Vervale 39 Druid <DaP>
Elwithe 30 Enchanter