How to save red

[Topgunben]

I know how to save Red. Allow characters to be copied from blue to red, so the character can still be played on BLUE.

this could breathe much needed life into Red, and make the server an option again.

[Almuderas]

That's an option, yeah.

My personal opinion is that to save red we gotta have Deity or Race PvP.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

I'd be fine with that if they copy over naked. Don't need a bunch of blue neckbeards running around nearly immortal.

[Topgunben]

I'd be fine with that if they copy over naked. Don't need a bunch of blue neckbeards running around nearly immortal.

maybe melee classes can keep weapons and chest slot? items are a rather trivial matter in the grand scheme of things anyway, so I dont really care.

[xKoopa]

make it classic only with rallos ruleset

classic alot more fun for pvp anyway

[ZiggyTheMuss]

pvp servers had NO staff involvement on live and were fine.

You obviously never played on a pvp server on live.

[NegaStoat]

Red has had several chances for population expansion. At one point a server staff member was advocating that people try it on the General board whole heartedly while forbidding blue players from doing the same on the pvp board. That aside, the campaign effort was made to get people to try it and...

Many people just didn't like it. EQ is not a game created from the ground up with PvP as its intent and it shows. More than that, the red community wasn't on the same page with the staff member in getting people to try it. Some players made very generous offers of cheap or free gear and resistance jewelry, while many many more players just griefed the new players logging in.

I think the single most important step in getting people to try Red would be authentic testimonials of someone having a GOOD experience on the server from a character's start to the middle level ranges. People met, places hunted, and yes, PvP fights that went well or went poorly but were fun. I've seen very little effort with this topic, and it's hard for a new player to see that it could be a fun place if there's very little evidence to show them that it can be a fun experience.

Also, the PvP forum boards being a cesspool of human depravity doesn't help the server's case at all.

[Jauna]

The only way to save RED is to make PvP consensual.

[awfal]

I'd be fine with that if they copy over naked. Don't need a bunch of blue neckbeards running around nearly immortal.

Top-end red players have more pixels than top-end blue players due to the low pop aka 'less mouths to feed'.

[Cwall 146.0]

i don't think gear would help the 99% of blue players that have no idea about pvp mechanics

that said, the red server is beyond saving and needs to be taken out back

[Swish]

i don't think gear would help the 99% of blue players that have no idea about pvp mechanics

that said, the red server is beyond saving and needs to be taken out back

lol

http://i.imgur.com/aEQRZiy.gif

[Squire]

save red pls

[Izmael]

Merge existing Red characters into Blue (except accounts with RMT history), then restart Red in classic only (pre-kunark) and never go beyond it. Guaranteed to work.

[brinkman512]

Since i found some pals to play with I am actually having a lot of fun on red. No raids gonna suck, but its just pixels so who cares.

[Swish]

Since i found some pals to play with I am actually having a lot of fun on red.

http://i.imgur.com/B21UZRK.png

[arsenalpow]

Top-end red players have more pixels than top-end blue players due to the low pop aka 'less mouths to feed'.

Not really since there isn't enough players to reliably down the content

[cptrice24]

nobody wants to play EQ PVP, it's horrible.. Red is DEAD

[Grubbz]

"How to save red"
DELETE IT

[MerkelMacron]

I'd be fine with that if they copy over naked. Don't need a bunch of blue neckbeards running around nearly immortal.

red is a dead waste land and you are stating conditions?

red should have free-fungi for each new bluebie coming over, because all the billions of pixels that have been harvested in the past 5+ years are worth shit if there is nobody playing

but even that is not gonna help

I am not counting on the forgotten who still play on it currenctly, the big deal about a new red server is the influx of old-timers, maybe there are up to 300 people

[AmukTZ]

Id rather they let me copy from red to blue. =)

[loramin]

I know this is a crazy idea, but maybe Red didn't fail because it lacked character transfers, or because it lacked *your personal pet PvP rule here*. Maybe Red failed because it's toxic community scared away most people who tried it, and many of the people that continued in spite of it were the types that enjoyed/increased the toxicity, making it more toxic over time.

Maybe that prevented the population from ever growing beyond the people who enjoyed/could tolerate that toxicity, and so maybe the way to save Red isn't to imagine new server changes, but rather to figure out how to make the community itself more inviting. And not just in the "this is Derubael's pet project for the week" way, but in a way that sustainably discourages players from just making other players' lives miserable and instead encourages respectful/competitive (and in my book, fun) PvP.

Maybe ... but I'm sure the kind of people who enjoy griefing (which I would guess is a big chunk of Red's current population) will tell me why I'm wrong and why what Red really needs to grow is MORE grief.

P.S. For the record no I didn't play PvP on EQ in classic, except for taking a toon up to like level 20 on Sullon Zek. But I did play mainly on a PvP server in WoW (and played tons of battlegrounds on my non-PvP servers), and I enjoyed it, so I'm not some MMOG PvP hater.

[Nathaniel]

I simply wouldn't care if my character was copied to red. I would never play them there anyway because I have zero interest in PvP.

[SlankyLanky]

eq pvp always sucked. red always sucked. theres no saving a server that 100 people play on. those 100 can keep playing it, and let blue keep being the shit show that classic eq raiding was.

[Squire]

I know this is a crazy idea, but maybe Red didn't fail because it lacked character transfers, or because it lacked *your personal pet PvP rule here*. Maybe Red failed because it's toxic community scared away most people who tried it, and many of the people that continued in spite of it were the types that enjoyed/increased the toxicity, making it more toxic over time.

Maybe that prevented the population from ever growing beyond the people who enjoyed/could tolerate that toxicity, and so maybe the way to save Red isn't to imagine new server changes, but rather to figure out how to make the community itself more inviting. And not just in the "this is Derubael's pet project for the week" way, but in a way that sustainably discourages players from just making other players' lives miserable and instead encourages respectful/competitive (and in my book, fun) PvP.

Maybe ... but I'm sure the kind of people who enjoy griefing (which I would guess is a big chunk of Red's current population) will tell me why I'm wrong and why what Red really needs to grow is MORE grief.

P.S. For the record no I didn't play PvP on EQ in classic, except for taking a toon up to like level 20 on Sullon Zek. But I did play mainly on a PvP server in WoW (and played tons of battlegrounds on my non-PvP servers), and I enjoyed it, so I'm not some MMOG PvP hater.

Ah as I read that I could tell you had not played red here and made the same misconceptions that many do here. Let me begin by saying of course the vocal minority of Forumquesters created a level of toxicity which was newbie unfriendly, we as a community have to be accountable for that but to insinuate that mean spirited banter is the only issue that plagued red is being myopic.

Mechanical changes such as (early on in the server's lifecycle) taking exp loss upon a pvp death, implementation of the global ooc which allowed toxicity to spread game-wide, yellow text which caused a name-and-shame element to pvp (all of the preceding were not classic, btw) inhibited player growth and retention.

Hell, I remember 12 people I was leveling with quitting after they throttled down the exp rate, that caused more player bleed than any toxic griefer, whom were allowed to wear epics and kill players at a 8+/- level range, which was later changed.

These are just a couple of examples, there were also a lack of any CSR for like 2 years (an environment not even the blue raiding scene could have endured, think of all the artificial rules and rotations required to keep blue going) so my point is, yes, the red community has some rotten and loud members, but you can't in any seriousness claim there wasn't serious structural problems and neglect from almost the very beginning. Don't get me wrong, I know the staff does this all for free, and I'm grateful, but I'm also just trying to paint a more accurate picture of server history.

tl;dr muh toxic community isnt the only issue that hurt red. mechanics and policies were at least as, if not more damaging.

[loramin]

Ah as I read that I could tell you had not played red here and made the same misconceptions that many do here. Let me begin by saying of course the vocal minority of Forumquesters created a level of toxicity which was newbie unfriendly, we as a community have to be accountable for that but to insinuate that mean spirited banter is the only issue that plagued red is being myopic.

While I didn't mean to suggest Red had only one problem or only one cause of it's problems, it does have a single core problem: low population. I honestly don't know if the toxic community is the biggest factor contributing to it or not, I just know that Red will have a very hard (maybe impossible) time reaching sustainable population as long as the community remains as toxic as it is. It's just hard to add people to the server when they keep leaving because they got repeatedly killed by de-leveled griefers, were offended by the talk in OOC, or were horrified by the "the vocal minority of Forumquesters."

There's nothing wrong with pontificating about how much better the server would be with this rule added or that rule removed. But none of those suggestions (that I've heard) in any way address the toxic community problem. The simple fact is that a lot of Red players live for schadenfreude (although I'm sure a lot are also like Swish; not trying to paint the whole server as toxic). Those people scare (many) people who aren't like them away from the server, and this limits the server's potential population. Whether or not that's the only problem, it seems like one that must be addressed if Red is ever going to succeed, so I just wish I saw more talk about how to solve it.

[Squire]

While I didn't mean to suggest Red had only one problem or only one cause of it's problems, it does have a single core problem: low population. I honestly don't know if the toxic community is the biggest factor contributing to it or not, I just know that Red will have a very hard (maybe impossible) time reaching sustainable population as long as the community remains as toxic as it is. It's just hard to add people to the server when they keep leaving because they got repeatedly killed by de-leveled griefers, were offended by the talk in OOC, or were horrified by the "the vocal minority of Forumquesters".

There's nothing wrong with pontificating about how much better the server would be with this rule added or that rule removed. But none of those suggestions (that I've heard) in any way address the toxic community problem. The simple fact is that a lot of Red players live for schadenfreude (I'm sure a lot are also like Swish; not trying to paint the whole server as toxic). Those people scare (many) people who aren't like them away from the server, and this limits the server's potential population. Whether or not that's the only problem, it seems like one that must be addressed if Red is ever going to succeed.

We can't change the core red player's psyche. We can change server mechanics and policies.

[loramin]

We can't change the core red player's psyche. We can change server mechanics and policies.

That's kinda like saying "we can only patch holes in half the boat": even if you patch the holes in the other half, your ship is still gonna sink. But I'm not sure server mechanics and policies can't address it, I just haven't seen anyone suggesting such changes.

One simple example: de-leveling. I haven't heard anyone even mention eliminating it (or rather making people's skills reset when they de-level), and it's probably because it doesn't seem like a problem to most of Red's population because they've long since leveled past that point (and some have now become the deleveled griefer).

But to the new person trying to play on the server for the first time and getting repeatedly killed by a de-leveled griefer, it's a really big deal. And if you want to grow the server's population, you need that person not to quit.

[Swish]

We can't change the core red player's psyche. We can change server mechanics and policies.

One of the highlights in terms of trying to change red for me was Eunomia policing OOC to the point where you couldn't chat out of character except for posting an auction or LFG message.

So 2 of the top players (1 from Holocaust, 1 from Azrael I think) engage in pvp combat, and the inevitable yellow text hits.

People can't say "pras", they can't comment on any of it (which is stupid honestly)...what happens?

People increase the spam on their auctions in appreciation of the kill.

I tried to get a guild together called <Pras That> to circumvent the chat moderation (guild adverts were allowed), but Eunomia's response was "absolutely not" :rolleyes:

[Baler]

http://i.imgur.com/OV8atuA.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/V4eHbpp.gif

[loramin]

One of the highlights in terms of trying to change red for me was Eunomia policing OOC to the point where you couldn't chat out of character except for posting an auction or LFG message.

Yeah I don't mean that sort of thing, but I guess it's a fine line. And maybe eliminating de-leveling isn't the greatest example: you'll still have griefer twinks, and the only fix for that is making everything no drop.

But I do think there has to be something that can be done to make it so that new Red (or Discord or whatever) players experience the thrill of PvP, rather than the slog of being griefed. And I really do think if that happened it would raise population.

[Swish]

There is nothing better than the rush you get from your first legit pvp kill 1v1, sad that a lot of people will never try it to see what I mean :p

[Jimjam]

I think the poll has the right idea; that there are too many zones relative to players.

Norrath is just too big on red.

I'd like to see a vanilla red with no expansions. That massively reduces the fungi twink problem too. In fact I'd even be happy with lvl 40 cap, Faydwer only (talls vs shorts?!).

The only problem is that would either require a significant roll back or full wipe, which would essentially mean killing, not saving, red.

[Teako]

I'd like to see a vanilla red with no expansions.

I'd like to see Red deleted, or at very least Red recruitment spam silenced.

Can't always get what we want.

[Squire]

I'd like to see Red deleted, or at very least Red recruitment spam silenced.

Can't always get what we want.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/613/323/e2e.jpg

Good constructive commentary.

[Ivah]

Server is fine stay on blue and wait in your dumb ass lines while constantly bitching that you have no alterative k thx.

[Topgunben]

I know how to save Red. Allow characters to be copied from blue to red, so the character can still be played on BLUE.

this could breathe much needed life into Red, and make the server an option again.

I posted this a couple months ago hoping to see some kind of change in Red. The fact that 60 nerds have a whole server dedicated to them is mind boggling. Something needs to change, this is pure insanity.

My questions to the devs is "are you satisfied with the population of Red?"

[Squabbles123]

The only PvP server I would play on again in EQ is a team PvP server.

Team PvP was pretty cool on live, it didn't last long, but the concept of "controlling territory" was very fun.

[Salaryman]

i had a good time on red with my mighty paladin. i managed to get the nerds to give me raid loot even though i contributed nothing to the guild and was afk for all raids i obtained the strongest pvp items such as

pauldrons of ferocity,
tri plated golden hackle hammer,
sword of rile,
aon,
paladious axe of and 8 other vulak items,
a second aon
shield of rainbow hues
robe of azure sky
shield of immaculate


then stole a manastone and kept it i have the strongest paladin.
dont play eq

[mickmoranis]

not reading thread but anyohne who doesnt agree with OP is a toolbag

[Debaser8]

You could make most old world zones and some Kunark zones subject to a rule where anybody who attacks somebody else in PVP vulnerable to players of all levels for 2 hours in game(and also people who attack them are still only vulnerable to +-4). This might cut down on twinked griefers, or at least make it more risky.

Also, why was spell resistance change from 5% to 2% at max? This only makes geared players stronger and discourages new, ungeared, players from joining the server. I know this a marginal change, but it seems weird. And, why don't lower level spells become less resistable like they were on live. It was nice to be able to interrupt people with Chaotic Feedback or SoL.

[Debaser8]

How about making it that so anybody who attacks somebody else in many old world zones and a few Kunark zones is subject to no level limit pvp (and people who attack them are not subject to this, but can be attacked back by the player they attacked)? This might cut down on low level twinks harassing people by making their lives more difficult.

Also, why do spells have a 2% chance to land not 5% like it was on Live against people with high resists? I know this is a minor thing, but doesn't this stack the deck in favor of existing players with good gear even more and discourage new people from joining?

[Rizzle]

The only PvP server I would play on again in EQ is a team PvP server.

Team PvP was pretty cool on live, it didn't last long, but the concept of "controlling territory" was very fun.

^this. I played on Sullon Zek back in Velious/Luclin era and loved it. IMO delete red and release team pvp server.

Mechanical changes such as (early on in the server's lifecycle) taking exp loss upon a pvp death, implementation of the global ooc which allowed toxicity to spread game-wide, yellow text which caused a name-and-shame element to pvp (all of the preceding were not classic, btw) inhibited player growth and retention.

I never thought about it but I think the yellow text name-and-shame might be a big factor in the servers toxicity because it give incentive to pvping via the leaderboard. There was nothing like this back in the day which would drive people to PVP more other than they just felt like pvping (not for points). I think this drives some of the main r99 players to always search for others to kill to try and top the leaderboard. Just something that stuck out to me form your statement. I don't think there would be as much PVP without the yellow text and the 3rd party leaderboard, and possibly not as much greifing. But alas that might be something that the die hard r99 people love. I still greatly enjoy pvp, just wish there was a teams server (race or diety)

[Yasi]

Man, u forgot
C: don't save red

[Baler]

There are are other servers with 1-10 players. Red is 100+ pop daily.. It's not dead.

[Swish]

How do you know if it does or doesnt need saving if you havent tried it? Looking at the pop and makong the decision based on a number isn't getting the whole picture <3

[loramin]

There are are other servers with 1-10 players. Red is 100+ pop daily.. It's not dead.

Obligatory ...
http://i.imgur.com/vcS3r6P.jpg

[Baler]

making the decision based on a number isn't getting the whole picture <3

That is actually a superbly valid point. And I hope anyone who is just going to QQ BS reads this.

There are private mmorpg servers with population incredibly low. However where they make up for population is the 1 on 1 interactions between players and or staff. When the population is so boiled down everyone knows each other and it gives a greater sense of community. This is significantly apparent on roleplay servers. I've met some of the nicest, coolest and genuine people on low population servers. Who otherwise would fall to the wayside on a high pop server. If you want to be gritty about it,. Compare fast food to a friends and family get together meal.

Stop looking at low population like it equals gloom and doom. Take a moment to absorb the bigger picture and embrace that which you may be missing out on.

Obligatory ...
<image>
lol well played :)

[One Tin Soldier]

My crazy suggestion:

Have a sort of soft level cap at around level 30ish. What I mean is everything works normally up to level 30 but beyond 30 if you die you drop back to level 30 (or whatever specific level they decided would be best).

This way most of the population is kept close to the same level so that PvP is more fun. It keeps high end loot from proliferating and being dumped on low level twinks (at least slows it down). Add to the post level 30 risk by allowing item loot on anyone who was above level 30 when they died.

Preferably put in some kind of points earning system for PvP kills. Points could be used to buy no-trade items from a special vendor.

Oh, and make it a teams server.

And if all of this doesn't work, wipe it clean and try a different rule set.

[Spyder73]

Best answer to save red is to wipe it and disable PVP

[Silvurwolf]

Here it is. The reason. The problem. The solution. Are you ready?

It's the community. It's the players on the server.

[Swish]

Here it is. The reason. The problem. The solution. Are you ready?

It's the community. It's the players on the server.

Be the change you want to see on the server (goes for blue as well, because there's definitely some bad players).

[Baler]

A crowd argues about an issue that everyone in the crowd is concerned about.
Time passes
The crowd is still arguing and the issue has since gone obsolete days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIk_yUkisPU

[Deliverator]

PVP is the playground for griefers. Always has been and always will be. The only way to fix Red is to either remove red completely or basically take away the whole point of having a PVP SERVER and just make it basically a PVP zone by allowing people to copy characters over to beat on each other when they are bored.

[nyclin]

don't give a fuck about saving red, eq pvp is a dumpster fire

[loramin]

PVP is the playground for griefers. Always has been and always will be. The only way to fix Red is to either remove red completely or basically take away the whole point of having a PVP SERVER and just make it basically a PVP zone by allowing people to copy characters over to beat on each other when they are bored.

World PvP is for griefers, but I think the many successful team-based PvP MMOGs (eg. DaoC, SW:G, WoW, and even EverQuest with Sullon Zek) show that good MMOG PvP is possible.

[nyclin]

World PvP is for griefers, but I think the many successful team-based PvP MMOGs (eg. DaoC, SW:G, WoW, and even EverQuest with Sullon Zek) show that good MMOG PvP is possible ... as long as you don't just let a bunch of idiots run around killing each other without purpose.

can't really compare other games to eq.. daoc actually had a semblance of balance, wow actively tries to balance pvp in the name of "esports"

eq pvp was an afterthought and is basically impossible to balance, even with significant non-classic changes

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/bwQfIVF.gif

[Jimjam]

I've tried EQ pvp. It's okay.

Really it is where the 'competitive' players belong, to me it is obvious that vanilla EQ is a collaborative game about working together and 'competitive' player are simply trying to work against players that want to play collaboratively.World PvP is for griefers, but I think the many successful team-based PvP MMOGs (eg. DaoC, SW:G, WoW, and even EverQuest with Sullon Zek) show that good MMOG PvP is possible.

I had a toon on SZ that I would play when I wasn't feeling well. Bertox SK. Obviously it didn't get very high level.


Something I noticed was high level wizards and druids detour into the warrens on their way to the Hole just to clear out any non-team teens levelling there. This happened almost every session.

You could argue killing the younglings is team activity. However, I never had an on-team player show up to the warrens to see if there were any low level players that might need help. This ratio of kill vs help suggests to me the activity was grief based, not team based.

In this regard I think red is more successful than SZ; Although there used to be a fungusman problem, these days red has a decent number of players that will try give newbies a hand up or protection (at least until they hit their 50s).

Edit: just logged into live on zek to see my old sk, level 15 with almost a full set of ringmail and a cold iron shackle for that plate bracer look :D

[Tenlaar]

Ah as I read that I could tell you had not played red here and made the same misconceptions that many do here.

This gets really irritating. Damn near every time I see people talking about shitty experiences on Red somebody comes along and basically tries to act like it didn't really happen and people are making things up.

Guess what? I tried red. The community WAS awful and I WAS griefed by multiple people as a level 9 wearing only the banded armor I'd managed to make myself so far, people who actually went so far as to send me tells to invite me to come and group with them multiple zones away just to attack me as soon as I arrive.

Just because you want to act like people are making these things up doesn't magically make the community not be shit.

[A1rh3ad]

I could see red being a thing and honestly I'm surprised there aren't more players. It's just not MY thing. I tend to opt out of pvp on even more balanced games nowadays. I've become too chill for it in my later years. Especially pvp on EQ where players can become absolute gods at low levels. It would be nice if you could kill players farming your factions npcs though. Like on wow where there are PvP timers. Hate to say it but vanilla pvp is one area WoW did absolutely right. Contested zones and pvp timers. PvP timers on pve servers too.

[Crazycloud]

if any small crew from blue wants to level up rogues/clerics/bards i'll PL pm me

[Nirgon]

Here it is. The reason. The problem. The solution. Are you ready?

It's the community. It's the players on the server.

Correct

[Izmael]

Red is great if you can play full time, ie: 16+ hours per day 7 days a week.

EQ PvP is very fun and those who say it's "imbalanced" are just terribad at it. Basketball is imbalanced, too. A good team will always beat a bad team.

If you can deal with playing with people who, for most of them, have a personality of someone who spent the last few years playing EQ Emu non-stop 24/7, then Red is the place to be. Otherwise, play blue, which is better if you have job, family, friends, income and all that boring stuff.

(People who will invariably come up with counter-examples: your counter-examples aren't meaningful, thanks).

[Dollar]

I think the massive amount of toxic circle-jerk on the forums will probably forever impact any chance for a successful Red population. It would take massive changes for people from blue to really commit to a pvp server; just because of what has happened to the current red..

Just watch Cars. What happens to the little towns that get bypassed by the new highways? They die because those towns no longer have anything to offer except to the derelict few who remain to reign over their cesspool of a server.

Blue = highway
Red = Radiator Springs

Profound insight right?? right? .. right?

[Kich867]

People are getting pretty defensive over stuff. The reality is, tons of people who post on the red forums don't even play the game--they just troll the forums. From what I've seen, very few people that play red actually participate on the forums, only the vocal select few.

Once you're actually IN the server, you can very, very quickly identify who to ignore within about 2-3 days of playing. I only have maybe... 7 or 8 people ignored and their alts and the global OOC chat is immediately fine.

You can largely ignore PVP until you hit end-game content in which the amount of available content is far, far more suited to the number of players on Red than it is on Blue. I think the biggest perks of playing the server are:
- Faster leveling, encouraged grouping
- Less populated zones, it's much easier to
- Global OOC, if you /ignore the few trolls / genuinely annoying people, global OOC is pretty great.
- Grouping and Raiding has a different vibe to it, in raids there's an emphasis on the speed and execution of raids, doing content with fewer numbers and very efficiently. I enjoy this aspect the most I think.

I think the player base is a lot less toxic than you think it is overall once you get into it, it's just like 5-10 people that stand out very, very much from the rest. I'm not entirely sure where the blind, vehement hatred comes from that blue has for red, if anything it's pretty weird and makes that community look a looooot more toxic.

[Swish]

^^ good post

[coldslaw]

I think the player base is a lot less toxic than you think it is overall once you get into it, it's just like 5-10 people that stand out very, very much from the rest.

So just 30% of the population.. that's not too bad i guess.

[Dulu]

No.

If anything, open a new PvP server, and force merge all of the current red characters onto blue.

Teams PvP.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Dudes are still trying to beg people with these desperate, groveling threads to play on their dead server.

It's just sad, really.

[mickmoranis]

I play and post on a classic everquest emu and forum

It's just sad, really.

[Kich867]

So just 30% of the population.. that's not too bad i guess.

:) Likely 3-4% and probably the same person on multiple accounts to be honest. You have a pretty strong proactively anti-red server agenda though, which is weird to be so invested in. I was just pointing out the highlights of the server and that the myth that the server is toxic is mostly unfounded.

It can be boring seeing the same rehashed conversations on OOC about who's better than who, but again, the rest of the population doesn't care much for the top end quarreling.

However, when you DO care about it, the pvp battles are actually really enjoyable and fun. The shit talking afterward I don't care much for, but the fights are exciting and interesting.

I do think if they were to figure out how to stop plugging from removing you from the server so quickly that would be ideal, which absolutely has to be possible. But that's only something people who are really embarrassed to die do. Yellow texts are fun, embrace 'em.

[mickmoranis]

there is a common missconception that p99'ers have and that is that they are adults now and cassual so why would they want someone greifing them while they get a chance play everquest?

Its different on red, you dont play the same way, you play to progress your character and the content we obviously love, but the key is to PLAY the content we love...

Red adds an element to a game that we're all stretching to its limits on an emu.

Join red to just play everquest, cast spells on people, greif, have fun, win/lose, fuck around etc

If you want to farm hill giants uninterrupted, then red (well right now red is definitely the right choice because aint nobody gonna bother you out there these days) then play blue.

But if you want to just fuck around and casually play EQ, creating funny stories and adventures, red eq is the clear winner.

If only the community would figure that out :(

[Izmael]

But if you want to just fuck around and casually play EQ, creating funny stories and adventures, red eq is the clear winner.



The other day, I needed to buy a few tink bags on red so I walked, very slowly, with about 20k pp on me from NFP to Sol A on a level 56 character and didn't encounter anyone in any of the zones I crossed.

I thought it would be dangerous and feel like an adventure, but really, it wasn't.

Community is puke-worthy although a few decent souls obviously stand out. I don't know why people say red forums aren't a representative sample of the red community. I played on red for a year and found it extremely representative.

[coldslaw]

Most people don't like forced PVP, or any PVP for that matter, and don't want to put up with the constant bullshit. All of the pros you guys keep listing as reason to play on Red are cons to most people:

* It's fun to constantly look over your shoulder. No.
* It's fun to worry about losing any PP you might have on you. No. And no, having to fool with converting it to gems is not fun either.
* It's fun when 90% of the zones are empty. No.
* It's fun having to think about what order your buffs are stacked on. No.
* It's fun having a buffed twink come completely stop your xp group. No.
* It's fun getting a group and XP super fast! Not really, the higher you get the more PVP bullshit you have to deal with.
* It's fun to solo for days in a row because there hardly any other players in your level range, or if there are they aren't close. No.

Now if you had certain zones that were PVP, contested zones with a high reward value for the risk, more people would probably participate. That won't ever happen, so might as well be happy with the 10% that enjoy that for one reason or another. You have to give normal people some reason to do it other than "LOL its fun to be interrupted in what you are doing or interrupt what other people are trying to do" or "You can camp whatever you want because there is hardly anyone here to play with!!"

[Topgunben]

I got a great idea. Make odd days of the month PVP. Make even days of the month non PVP.

[Salaryman]

Most people don't like forced PVP, or any PVP for that matter, and don't want to put up with the constant bullshit. All of the pros you guys keep listing as reason to play on Red are cons to most people:

* It's fun to constantly look over your shoulder. No.
* It's fun to worry about losing any PP you might have on you. No. And no, having to fool with converting it to gems is not fun either.
* It's fun when 90% of the zones are empty. No.
* It's fun having to think about what order your buffs are stacked on. No.
* It's fun having a buffed twink come completely stop your xp group. No.
* It's fun getting a group and XP super fast! Not really, the higher you get the more PVP bullshit you have to deal with.
* It's fun to solo for days in a row because there hardly any other players in your level range, or if there are they aren't close. No.

Now if you had certain zones that were PVP, contested zones with a high reward value for the risk, more people would probably participate. That won't ever happen, so might as well be happy with the 10% that enjoy that for one reason or another. You have to give normal people some reason to do it other than "LOL its fun to be interrupted in what you are doing or interrupt what other people are trying to do" or "You can camp whatever you want because there is hardly anyone here to play with!!"



why u type all of this noone cares nerd get a life

[Tenlaar]

- Faster leveling, encouraged grouping

I think the player base is a lot less toxic than you think it is overall once you get into it

Strangely enough, it was clearly toxic people using encouraging me to group as a method of griefing that drove me from the server pretty quickly, so...I find your argument invalid.

[coldslaw]

why u type all of this noone cares nerd get a life

* It's fun to deal with people like this. No

Rants and Flames looks to be more your style. Why don't you let the adults have a conversation.

[maskedmelonpai]

Strangely enough, it was clearly toxic people using encouraging me to group as a method of griefing that drove me from the server pretty quickly, so...I find your argument invalid.

problem really attitude tbh. if everyone learn to adopt the mindset of the grieved into they play and just laugh about it and be good sport then it not bad at all. problem is PSF people not able to do that cause they not wanna admit they powerless in certain time and would rather cry than laugh and resolve to make things better

[Kich867]

Strangely enough, it was clearly toxic people using encouraging me to group as a method of griefing that drove me from the server pretty quickly, so...I find your argument invalid.

That's a bummer, I've actually never been griefed on Red. I picked it back up a couple months ago and before that I played pretty regularly a couple years ago as well.

You're saying a group of people lured you into a group to kill you? Is it possible that your own behavior provoked it?

[bolo]

Id rather they let me copy from red to blue. =)

[Quadrono]

Im torn, part of me says PVP in EQ is horribad and wasting resources on a PVP server is just that, wasteful.

Then I remember that if there was no red, all the hackers, trolls and griefers that server attracts would be on the real P99 server and then im all for its continued existence.

Its hard sometimes.

[coldslaw]

Im torn, part of me says PVP in EQ is horribad and wasting resources on a PVP server is just that, wasteful.

Then I remember that if there was no red, all the hackers, trolls and griefers that server attracts would be on the real P99 server and then im all for its continued existence.

Its hard sometimes.

The conclusion that I've come to is that Red is simply left running as a honey pot for these types of individuals. However, there's no real resources being dedicated to making it better. Once they realized the type and size of the population that Red brought in all efforts for any similar type of server stopped (Discord, Teams, etc).

[Ivah]

Im torn, part of me says PVP in EQ is horribad and wasting resources on a PVP server is just that, wasteful.

Then I remember that if there was no red, all the hackers, trolls and griefers that server attracts would be on the real P99 server and then im all for its continued existence.

Its hard sometimes.

You obviously have no idea who your playing with then.

[mickmoranis]

the amount of hate you people have for red, while all they want you to do is play the same video game after 20 years that you are with them, is fucking sickening.

you people are just vile disgusting human beings that im happy stay on blue but if you ever. I repeate, EVER try to play everquest on a red server.

I will ruin your fucking life.

[Kich867]

you people are just vile disgusting human beings that im happy stay on blue but if you ever. I repeate, EVER try to play everquest on a red server.

I will ruin your fucking life.

I'm getting a strong ESL vibe, I think I get what you were trying to say from the last sentence, but this is pretty hard to follow.

[mickmoranis]

if you try to play ever quest on a red server I will find you and end you until you call your parents

[coldslaw]

the amount of hate you people have for red, while all they want you to do is play the same video game after 20 years that you are with them, is fucking sickening.

you people are just vile disgusting human beings that im happy stay on blue but if you ever. I repeate, EVER try to play everquest on a red server.

I will ruin your fucking life.

No one hates Red. I actually gave it a try here recently for about a month because I wanted to see what it was like first hand. After leveling a few different characters, I'm simply offering a perspective on what it was like. It was a different experience, and some things were enjoyable, but there are massive issues that deter most people from continuing to play there.

But I think you just illustrated the biggest issue holding red back.

"Try Red, it's friendly and fun!"

"I did, but here are the issues I found that make it not fun..."

"Go fuck yourself and die. If I ever see you on red I will ruin your fucking life."

Yeah... that'll make people want to play more there. Seriously, the Red community is the biggest thing holding it back. When PVP Server Chat looks like the Rants and Flames forum, you might have to realize there is an issue.

[Kich867]

No one hates Red. I actually gave it a try here recently for about a month because I wanted to see what it was like first hand. After leveling a few different characters, I'm simply offering a perspective on what it was like. It was a different experience, and some things were enjoyable, but there are massive issues that deter most people from continuing to play there.

But I think you just illustrated the biggest issue holding red back.

"Try Red, it's friendly and fun!"

"I did, but here are the issues I found that make it not fun..."

"Go fuck yourself and die. If I ever see you on red I will ruin your fucking life."

Yeah... that'll make people want to play more there. Seriously, the Red community is the biggest thing holding it back. When PVP Server Chat looks like the Rants and Flames forum, you might have to realize there is an issue.

That's kind of cherry picking though, no? I'm certainly not here telling you to go die, just this dude who's berging the hell out over disliking something he likes. I'm not even trying to convince anyone to go play there, I just wanted to point out that the point of view people have of the server is sorely misguided as a whole.

Even if people _did_ join I don't think EQ is a game that's meant to have much more than ~250 people on at once. The reality is that much of the world you completely ignore now because we've all nuked out that there isn't any reason to go there unless a quest provokes you.

[mickmoranis]

do not try red, it is off limits to the likes of players like you. You will not have fun. You will cry. I will enjoy every minuet of it. You will quit and your work and life at home will suffer from the low self esteem you got from not being able to handle a video game.

Stay off red you are not allowed.

[loramin]

"Try Red, it's friendly and fun!"

"I did, but here are the issues I found that make it not fun..."

"Go fuck yourself and die. If I ever see you on red I will ruin your fucking life."

Pretty accurately sums up every thread involving a newcomers to Red.

[mickmoranis]

Blue players are the type of people that take warnings intended to protect them, as threats.

[loramin]

but if you ever. I repeate, EVER try to play everquest on a red server.

I will ruin your fucking life.

Blue players are the type of people that take warnings intended to protect them, as threats.

Thanks Mick, that made me smile.

[Ivah]

do not try red, it is off limits to the likes of players like you. You will not have fun. You will cry. I will enjoy every minuet of it. You will quit and your work and life at home will suffer from the low self esteem you got from not being able to handle a video game.

Stay off red you are not allowed.

[Hitmonkey]

EverQuest PVP is complete out of balance shit. It was only fun back in the day because there really wasn't a lot of other options for 3D first-person group PVP. Just let it go

[Ivah]

EverQuest PVP is complete out of balance shit. It was only fun back in the day because there really wasn't a lot of other options for 3D first-person group PVP. Just let it go

Why don't you tell us what's do unbalanced

[Kohedron]

The day it's some form of PvP teams is the day I sign on red

[Squabbles123]

Why don't you tell us what's do unbalanced

Ever had your screen go totally black, then about 10 seconds later, it comes back, but you're spinning in circles and have 5% of your health remaining, then you die?

That.

The only thing worth playing on a PvP server is a Rogue and stack that MR as high as you can. (Hmm, that makes me wonder if one of the rogue races starts with higher MR, not sure) Run around hidden all the time and backstab people to death if they sit down.

Since everyone stacks MR, playing a caster is just stupid. Its a server for Monks, Bards, and Rogues.

[Swish]

The day it's some form of PvP teams is the day I sign on red

I think teams and a fresh server would see hundreds of players wanting to give it a shot, more than red's launch.

[mickmoranis]

I think teams and a fresh server would see hundreds of players wanting to give it a shot, more than red's launch.

i sure hope recycle99 is teams and you can move your characters to blue or red at the end

and hey i hope for a lot of things that dont happen so i can handle the disappointment if this never will, but let me hope for now k thx