New troll shaman questions on equipment

[Yuda]

Hi All!

I was listening to some everquest music a couple of weeks back, found out about P1999 and logged on yday. Surprisingly enough I found it fun and I think I want to relive my Barb Shaman from back in the day, only being evil race this time.
I thought about making a different class, but no, I want to be a shaman. Again :)

This week is not that busy at work so I am trying to make some plans on where to go and what equipment to get.
This might sound silly, but here goes:

Question 1. Can trolls only wear large armor and not medium?

If so, that means i can't wear Chitin_Shell_Armor for example?

I hope this is not the case because it seems a lot of medium armor is good and it would severely make the choice of armor smaller for Ogres and Trolls compared to Barbarian.


Question 2. I like grouping instead of soloing since its just a lot of fun for me. Where are some good spots I should be camping in order to procure good troll shaman items? Preferably dungeons, although any nameds are good.

I am planning on doing all the totemic armor quests. They were SOO satisfying to do over 10 years ago due to the extensive travelling and tough drop rates. Ofcourse I plan to do it again with my troll shaman.

Thanks in advance :)

[Yuda]

I did reading and it seems it would be better for me to make my Diety Innoruuk instead Cazik Thule due to the neck piece.

I will reroll since I am only level 2, hopefully I will keep my name upon deleting the character.

If someone thinks the neck item is not really worth it to reroll, please let me know.

Thanks.

[Mardur]

Ogre > Troll

Med/large armor doesn't really mean anything past banded. Besides, isn't chitin shell armor dwarf/halfling/gnome anyway?

[Messianic]

Question 1. Can trolls only wear large armor and not medium?

Correct.

If so, that means i can't wear Chitin_Shell_Armor for example?

Nope; Chitin Shell Armor is large race only, so your troll could wear it.

I hope this is not the case because it seems a lot of medium armor is good and it would severely make the choice of armor smaller for Ogres and Trolls compared to Barbarian.

Honestly, i'd consider going Ogre. There's been a ton of debate about it, but Ogre stats, immunity to frontal stuns, etc make them an incredible shaman choice. Many people (myself included) consider Ogre Shamans > Troll Shamans.

Here's a link to some of the lively debate: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17062&highlight=shaman+race

The regen always catches your eye, but Ogre stats + Stun Immunity are better in the long run. I consider regen insignificant to being able to always get off roots (frontal bashes don't interrupt your casting, nor do regular hits the vast majority of the time).

Question 2. I like grouping instead of soloing since its just a lot of fun for me. Where are some good spots I should be camping in order to procure good troll shaman items? Preferably dungeons, although any nameds are good.

Just make money. Lots of money. Items are cheap on this server. You should probably save 250p for a gloomwater harpoon as a weapon; very effective, commonly sold, good item with good stats.

Group as you go - i.e. Dervs/Orc/Croc groups in EC/Ro/Oasis, Upper guk/Sol A/Mistmoore in early 20s...although I don't know a ton about good grouping locations since I nearly exclusively solo.

I am planning on doing all the totemic armor quests. They were SOO satisfying to do over 10 years ago due to the extensive travelling and tough drop rates. Ofcourse I plan to do it again with my troll shaman.

If you need any info on those...http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Totemic_Armor_Quests

[Estu]

If you wanna go troll, go troll; each race has its merits. If you're going to be grouping all the time, try and avoid outdoor zones like Ro and Oasis, as dungeons have EXP bonuses and better loot. I would head into Upper Guk as soon as you can. Some loot to keep an eye out for is the savant's cap and bloodstained tunic/mantle in Unrest, split paw hide gloves from Infected Paw, embroidered black cape from Lower Guk, and runed mithril bracer from Solusek B. However, you will easily be able to buy these items and better ones by just earning money through loot and going to EC. I've built up something like 5000pp by level 41 by just selling loot to merchants and finding the occasional expensive piece of loot I'd sell to players. The combined worth of the items I mentioned is a few hundred plat.

Gear-wise, my suggestion to you is to get a full suit of large banded early on, some silver and electrum WIS rings/earrings, an OK weapon (I went with Cold Iron Morning Star first and then Gloomwater Harpoon), and an OK shield (Bark Shield has been good to me). That'll do you fine until level 30, at which point you can go quest all your totemic (though you'll need help in a couple places, e.g. Kedge). By that time you'll also start to accumulate decent sums of money and can buy stuff at EC.

Really the only reason I've been finding gear upgrades while EXPing in dungeons is that I've been hoarding my money for other, more gear-dependent characters, rather than spending it on my shaman.

[Yuda]

Thanks for the quick replies Messianic and Estu.

Regarding the race, I would not say I am a hardcore min maxer. Still I would like to have an idea about how my end game character would perform.
I read the whole thread you linked Messianic, it was very informative.
From reading all the entries, it appears to me No front stun from Ogre is powerful, even more so than the regen.
In conclusion I think I will reroll Ogre.

For Ogre Shaman, Deity does not matter right?
(Maybe I can only choose one Deity, i did not check yet)

Regarding the items you recommend Estu, thanks a lot.
I think it is fun making item lists at work and planning the retro trip of a life time levelling to 50 in classic EQ.
Making money and buying the items might be easier, and I think I will do this for most of them. But camping for a long time and then finally getting the item.... ahhhh the feeling is exquisite.

For some reason I realized that EQ Classic and Hellraiser go hand in hand. In Hellraiser the character Frank can only derive pleasure from pain due to being desentivized due to indulging in pleasures too much.

After playing games after EQ, the rewards come too easily. To be honest I do not feel much pleasure attaining them anymore.
That is what I hope to relive again, pleasure through pain :D

[Scratch&Sniff]

be troll, and totemic sucks

[dredge]

.

[Messianic]

Ogre starting stats are just so disgustingly good... You can get an unbelievable amount of Stamina (which has a scaling effect, i.e. more hp per sta at higher levels) if you pump all your points into it.

[Yuda]

@ Messianic: For Ogre, I thought i should put 25 points in wis and 5 points in stam?

Maybe this doesn't matter all that much, but I thought this was the best course of action. Are you saying that due to getting a lot of wis (from items) at high levels, more stam is important in the end game?

Anyways I do not think I will change my current distribution of 25Wis and 5 Stam, however I am curious I would have to admit.

Thanks dredge, I'll get a large banded set once i get some cash.
I remember (lol i sound old now) when I was a Barb Shaman, I bought the dufrenite from the vendors at around 150pp a pop. That was ALOT of money for me back then. I read now that players sell them for around 50-70pp if you can find them. I think I will go the latter route this time around.

The Barb faction is great, I am actually a bit worried about travelling with lots of people finding me KOS. For the wooly mammoth drop needed in everfrost for one of the totemic pieces, that's a long and dangerous trek.
Then again, it's more of a challenge so I welcome it.

[xshayla701]

ogreogreogreogre

[Estu]

@ Messianic: For Ogre, I thought i should put 25 points in wis and 5 points in stam?

Maybe this doesn't matter all that much, but I thought this was the best course of action. Are you saying that due to getting a lot of wis (from items) at high levels, more stam is important in the end game?

Putting as many points as possible into WIS is the way to go. Casters get shitty HP return on STA. If you max out WIS with gear then you can look into HP gear; if you max it out faster, that means more HP gear.

[Mardur]

Putting as many points as possible into WIS is the way to go. Casters get shitty HP return on STA. If you max out WIS with gear then you can look into HP gear; if you max it out faster, that means more HP gear.

Terrible advice. Yes, 25 sta 5 wis.

[Shaggy]

Come end game velious , your important stats will all be maxed no matter what race you are. =)

[Estu]

Terrible advice. Yes, 25 sta 5 wis.

You know what helps _no one_? Disagreeing with a point and providing absolutely nothing to back it up. Why would you even post it?

[Gorgetrapper]

The more HP you have, the more you can cannibalize. That's basically what it comes down to.

[dredge]

.

[fohkure]

You know what helps _no one_? Disagreeing with a point and providing absolutely nothing to back it up. Why would you even post it?

It's all been explained before. If you do a tiny bit of research you will find why most shamans prefer stamina as a starting stat over wisdom. Survivability is big for Shamans. We get hit a lot soloing and raiding. I can always make more mana, I can't always survive a flurry of attacks. Mana pools are for druids and clerics, not for Shamans.

I raid with 148 wisdom, and I never have a problem with too little mana. When i solo/farm I have about 135 wisdom and I never have a problem.

If you med a lot, you probably want a bigger mana pool... and you are playing your shaman incorrectly. You should be standing with chloro and rage on at all times and cannibalizing if you are not casting another spell.

Chris

Edit: before some one comes in here and splits hairs about my not meditating comment I will add... some shamans try to med on the server tick, and it's an awesome little trick... but requires way too much attention to the server tick and not to what's going on around you. If you can do it, great. I don't.

[Yuda]

Thanks for the help and what I think is a warm welcome.

About the mana, from my memories being a non raiding barb shaman I actually had mana issues when i was grouping from lvl 35 to 50. Possibly due to the group and me not spending my mana the best way possible, anyhow I feel comfortable putting 25 points in wis.
Of course, if my experience changes this time around I will post it.

Back at work now and I have two more questions:

1. How much should I expect to pay for large banded mail pieces?
I do not want to pay too much, but at the same time I want to pay a decent amount to support the artisan.
I guess the best place to procure this would be EC tunnels on a Sunday.

2. How hard is it to level blacksmithing by yourself with the goal being to make a set of large banded mail?
The wiki says it is expensive, is it still feasible to level blacksmithing on a naked, first time character?

[ilike]

Yuda you can click on the east commonlands subforum section, and look on the server tradeskillers thread. Go on the latest post, and go back from there till yo find a troll or ogre smith. PM him for large banded orders, and he can make them first at his leisure, then you both meet in game and you can pay him 1pp per ac on the large banded.

[Tanagor]

1. How much should I expect to pay for large banded mail pieces?
2. How hard is it to level blacksmithing by yourself with the goal being to make a set of large banded mail?

1. 1pp per AC, which is around 90pp for a full suit.
2. From memory it costs around 200 - 250pp to get Blacksmithing to 116 which is the max skill you can get from making banded on this server.

[Yuda]

Thanks for the information on the trade skill forum and the estimation on how much it costs to lvl up blacksmithing.
I think i will go about the customer route in acquiring a set of banded mail.

[Messianic]

Yuda,

It probably won't affect your overall gameplay to put 25 wis 5 sta as your starting stats. I personally would prefer 25 sta - but either way you're an Ogre and you're going to kick butt. The difference at lower levels will be really unnoticeable anyhow.

My wizard alt can make large banded - he can also port to WK to get the molds for it ;) So if you can't find anyone who can do it, shoot me a pm, or give me a tell on any of my characters below (I'm usually on the ranger nowadays) and i'll run out and make you a set.

[Yuda]

Thanks for the kind offer Messianic, I will be starting to save money and hopefully will get a boost to my income once i get SOW, hehe.

I was checking on where to level and I found a tip that lvl range 9 to 14 is good in Lake Rathe on the west side next to the Arena zone line (with warning to be careful of Prince Krympt, Froglok SK).

As this is a 5 level range to level, with a somewhat long trek from The Feerrott.
Should I bind in Lake Rathe and use a vendor while I am there or is it better to just remain bound in The Feerrott as I am such a low level?
I am quite sure I will die a couple of times there.

Obviously, if there are no vendor opportunities for evil races in Lake Rathe I would opt to remain bound in The Feerrott.
I think I will delay going to South Ro until level 14.

[Messianic]

Eh, I wouldn't go that far at your level. Rathe is a pain, and there are easier/richer places for you to kill stuff.

Honestly, it's probably going to be worth it for you to make the trip to EC/North Ro and get bound in freeport (Buy your level 14 spells beforehand if you can). If you like to group, people do Orc groups in EC, and you can get buffs from people at the tunnel. You can also kill bixies for honeycombs, bears for HQ bear skins (10-15p each), etc. You can vendor stuff at Shady in the EC tunnel.

I don't have as much experience leveling evil characters, so i'm not too familiar with where to go from there...Normally, the three sisters in lfay are excellent money and exp, but I don't know if you want to go that far, particularly when there are so few evil refuges for you on Faydwer. You could vendor stuff at the steamfont druid rings...And the sisters consistently drop bronze weapons (a few plat each). You definitely can't bank or buy spells anywhere on that island, though. Dwarves, Elves, and Gnomes will all hate you ;)

[Massive Marc]

Yuda. I have a few extra Shaman items for you. If you want message me in game, I will be on later tonight. IGN Massivemarc.

[Mardur]

You know what helps _no one_? Disagreeing with a point and providing absolutely nothing to back it up. Why would you even post it?

Because I've written pages of shaman theorycraft here and on the crucible years ago. How about you search instead so I don't have to spend 30 minutes typing another entire guide to shamandom over my phone.

[Tumdumm]

the feerott is right near the swamp and the swamp is great!

[Yuda]

Thanks for the help everyone, Messianic, Massive Marc, Detroitvelvet and the friendly full totemic wearing Barb shaman that was killing the guards in Oggok.
Lol, I feel like these people making a thank-you speech and at the end they stammer because they forgot a couple of people they knew they should thank.

I am gonna make the trip to FP from South Ro soon.
It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be dangerous. But dammit I am still gonna make it!!!

If anyone sees me online, please hail me and I will bestow SoW upon you. It is the very least I can do to try and return the kindness I have received.

[Flash]

Can anybody link the totemic armor/quests? I'd like to learn about these while I'm leveling my shaman.

And yeah, as far as armor goes, vanilla banded works just fine into your 30s.

[Flash]

Can you link me to the totemic armor/quests unbann?

[Raavak]

Totemic Armor Quests (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Totemic_Armor_Quests)

[Grozmok]

http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Category:Shaman_Equipment

Troll > *

Racial STR, STA and Regen is awesome.

Troll Regen + Item Regen + Spell Regen + Cannibalize = Mana for daaaaaaaaaaaaaays

[Galelor]

It's all been explained before. If you do a tiny bit of research you will find why most shamans prefer stamina as a starting stat over wisdom. Survivability is big for Shamans. We get hit a lot soloing and raiding. I can always make more mana, I can't always survive a flurry of attacks. Mana pools are for druids and clerics, not for Shamans.

I raid with 148 wisdom, and I never have a problem with too little mana. When i solo/farm I have about 135 wisdom and I never have a problem.

If you med a lot, you probably want a bigger mana pool... and you are playing your shaman incorrectly. You should be standing with chloro and rage on at all times and cannibalizing if you are not casting another spell.

Chris

Edit: before some one comes in here and splits hairs about my not meditating comment I will add... some shamans try to med on the server tick, and it's an awesome little trick... but requires way too much attention to the server tick and not to what's going on around you. If you can do it, great. I don't.

You use Rage? Even with c2 I can't out mana regen the -mana flow on that spell. How exactly are you using it?

[phobus]

You use Rage? Even with c2 I can't out mana regen the -mana flow on that spell. How exactly are you using it?

Look at the date on his post. The mana drain effect on the rage line used to be broken.

[Galelor]

Look at the date on his post. The mana drain effect on the rage line used to be broken.

ah, boom. bumping old threads does that.

[Messianic]

http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Category:Shaman_Equipment

Troll > *

Racial STR, STA and Regen is awesome.

Troll Regen + Item Regen + Spell Regen + Cannibalize = Mana for daaaaaaaaaaaaaays

Eh...have you actually run the #'s for how much extra mana per minute the troll regen nets? It's really not as much as you think, especially before 55+.

[isoka]

Eh...have you actually run the #'s for how much extra mana per minute the troll regen nets? It's really not as much as you think, especially before 55+.

Yes, but after 55+, it makes a huge difference. If regen doesn't matter, why fungi tunic are considered as a must have item for shamans ?

In my opinion, go for troll. Does it mean ogres, barbarians and iksars are bad ? No

[falkun]

Someone else posted a quote that pretty much sums up the Shaman class, especially pre-Velious:

1) Ogre: +Stun Immunity +JBB
2) Troll: +Regen +JBB
3) Iksar: +Regen -No JBB
4) Barbarian: +Faction +JBB

[Messianic]

Yes, but after 55+, it makes a huge difference.

At 60 (the level of biggest difference), trolls receive an additional 11hp per tick sitting. That's 110 hp per minute or approximately 60 mana per minute with Canni IV. Or, more usefully, an extra 6 mana per tick.

Sorry, to me that's simply not as game breaking as stun immunity. And nearly every 60 shaman i've known who played in the velious era agreed, including one who played a troll.

If regen doesn't matter, why fungi tunic are considered as a must have item for shamans?

This isn't really a useful question. A better question is "What are the alternatives to Fungi Tunic and how do they compare," and the answer is there simply isn't anything that compares well.

In the Troll/Ogre debate, you have two alternatives - frontal stun immunity or an extra 11 hp or 6 mana per tick. Among those two alternatives, i'd say frontal stun immunity is more game-breaking.

[isoka]

In the Troll/Ogre debate, you have two alternatives - frontal stun immunity or an extra 11 hp or 6 mana per tick. Among those two alternatives, i'd say frontal stun immunity is more game-breaking.

It all depends on your gameplay. If you group or duo a lot, I don't see the frontal stun immunity as good as the 6 mana per tick since you aren't tanking to the point where you can be perma stunned and can't cast anymore. If you intend to solo and handle multiple pulls on your own, then the frontal stun immunity will be a better addition.

In my opinion, a shaman performs pretty well in both solo and grouping field. However, I do think a shaman is much more group oriented since he can bring a lot to the table, hence why I value the troll regen over the frontal stun immunity.

Regarding the innoruuk troll snare necklace, it's not game breaking, but still a handy item to have when you are in dungeons and you don't have a snarer.

[Grozmok]

Does it mean ogres, barbarians and iksars are bad ? No

This

[Hitchens]

On live I worshipped Cazic Thule, so always regretted not being able to get the Innoruuk snare necklace. Now that I have it, I rarely ever even use it.

[Galelor]

Someone else posted a quote that pretty much sums up the Shaman class, especially pre-Velious:

1) Ogre: +Stun Immunity +JBB
2) Troll: +Regen +JBB
3) Iksar: +Regen -No JBB
4) Barbarian: +Faction +JBB

If I may expound:
1) Ogre: +Stun Immunity, +JBB
2) Troll: +Regen, +SnareNeck, +JBB
3) Iksar: +Regen, -No JBB
4) Barbarian: +Faction, +PoFHammer, +JBB

[Noselacri]

Faction is completely irrelevant unless you're a newbie who needs to security, and even then I'd argue that the good alignment isn't beneficial half the time. Both of the primary classic dungeons are near evil cities, and in Kunark it doesn't matter at all which side you're on. You should be spending most of your Norrath time in the few zones surrounding EC, and there's perfect access to Neriak and Grobb which provides anything you could ever need. I certainly don't see much of a point in listing faction as a "+" comparable to stun immunity or regen.

It's pretty much established that ogres have the best stats. Mana is largely irrelevant to a shaman while hp is important and even strength is convenient if you're the type who solo farms a lot, something shamans do well. That said, there is such a thing as a critical limit for mana - sometimes you just don't have time to canni, and if your mana pool is so small that you can't cast enough spells to survive a fight, you're in trouble. Putting your starting points in stamina is the best choice, but if you don't plan to raid or get rich and will spend your time in average gear, you might consider putting them in wisdom instead so you won't end up with 103 wisdom at level 60. It ultimately doesn't matter much, but like I said, you don't always have 30 seconds to mess around with canni and torpor, and it's possible to have so small a mana pool that you can't cast a slow, both dots, a superior heal and a torpor in one bar. Flexibility is important to shamans and you don't want to cut it too close with the mana. Being a casual non-raider by nature, I went with wisdom because I know I'll never have good gear. Stamina can still be maxed in Velious with casual gear and a buff.

The real dealbreaker is regen vs. stun immunity, and the simple way to put it is that stun immunity is stronger while regen is more convenient. If you're lazy and live your life on your ass as a buffbot, regen will help you more. If you plan to do high-end and/or dangerous shit, stun immunity is considerably better but doesn't really help you level faster or support a group in average content better. Ogre is the statistically best race, but some playstyles benefit more from troll regen. Barbarians have no inherent advantages except a decent hammer, and iksar is a terrible race unless you're a necro.

[Glasken]

...iksar is a terrible race unless you're a necro.

/end


Troll regen is great to have while soloing 1-50. Above that, getting spells off becomes more of an issue when there are multiple mobs involved, as is normally the case when root n rotting a camp. I had a 55 Troll Shammy on live and while I thrived in a group setting, soloing (especially in dungeons) became more and more tedious if more than two mobs were in the mix.

In the end, play what you like the most, and what you think looks best, because no matter what race you pick you will be looking at it for a long, long time.