Rotations for Old World Raid Mobs

[Rummol]

I know this is nothing new, but I'd like to think that as a community we can implement a better system to share old world raid mobs like Naggy/Vox/Phinny, Hate/Fear/Sky, and Kunark Dragons.

The loot from these mobs is not an upgrade to any serious raiding guild and I'm sure that after 5+ years they have all farmed their share of blade stoppers, prayer beads, etc.

These mobs are huge bottle necks for people trying to complete epic quests. For that reason it would be in the best interests of the community (long term) to share this content. I am proposing that the guild leaders of the community come together to work out a rotation schedule so that everyone can have a shot at some of these targets.

I won't try and propose a schedule here and now, but I would ask a couple of direct questions to current guild leaders:

1. Is your guild prepared to share these mobs on a rotation schedule
2. If not, why?

Thanks for your time.

[Ikon]

I know this is nothing new, but I'd like to think that as a community we can implement a better system to share old world raid mobs like Naggy/Vox/Phinny, Hate/Fear/Sky, and Kunark Dragons.

The loot from these mobs is not an upgrade to any serious raiding guild and I'm sure that after 5+ years they have all farmed their share of blade stoppers, prayer beads, etc.

These mobs are huge bottle necks for people trying to complete epic quests. For that reason it would be in the best interests of the community (long term) to share this content. I am proposing that the guild leaders of the community come together to work out a rotation schedule so that everyone can have a shot at some of these targets.

I won't try and propose a schedule here and now, but I would ask a couple of direct questions to current guild leaders:

1. Is your guild prepared to share these mobs on a rotation schedule
2. If not, why?

Thanks for your time.
They won't do it for 1 simple reason - they make too much pp and real life money from mq the items. Even if you got all to agree, @ up to 500k for some items, the equivalent of 1 - 2 years of casual pp farming and around 1.5k USD on some pp selling sites you'd see the same people farming the same items on unguilded alts.

[Rummol]

I understand the RMT angle....but if we had guild leaders aligning with a rotation it would put a lot of pressure (and scrutiny) on any un-guilded farmers. In essence, if you are wearing the guild tag you adhere to the rotation that your guild has agreed to.

[Dolalin]

I could see Talendor and Fay being rotated, but I doubt you will ever see Sev or Gore rotated as the epic drops are just too desirable. Even Vox is problematic because she drops the white scale. As usual, the source of all grief in Everquest is the scarcity and itemization.

[fastboy21]

I know this is nothing new, but I'd like to think that as a community we can implement a better system to share old world raid mobs like Naggy/Vox/Phinny, Hate/Fear/Sky, and Kunark Dragons.

The loot from these mobs is not an upgrade to any serious raiding guild and I'm sure that after 5+ years they have all farmed their share of blade stoppers, prayer beads, etc.

These mobs are huge bottle necks for people trying to complete epic quests. For that reason it would be in the best interests of the community (long term) to share this content. I am proposing that the guild leaders of the community come together to work out a rotation schedule so that everyone can have a shot at some of these targets.

I won't try and propose a schedule here and now, but I would ask a couple of direct questions to current guild leaders:

1. Is your guild prepared to share these mobs on a rotation schedule
2. If not, why?

Thanks for your time.

Not sure if you are really naive or trolling...

Its a classic emulator. One of the features of classic EQ is that the "old world" never became obsolete. There is no reason, certainly no new reason, why guilds would change their approach to raiding now.

There are a few targets that you could reasonably hope for a rotation on, but they aren't the ones you probably would hope for.

I'm not sure I agree that it is all fueled by RMT. I'm kind of ignorant to the current state of RMT'ing on this server. My sense is that it is actually more under control now than it was several years ago, but I don't follow it anymore to be honest. The in-game value of these items, even without RMT, is more than enough to keep guilds racing for them.

I really only see two possible reasons why this will ever change on p99:
1. The GMs force a rotation system on the players (this isn't unreasonable, and has essentially happened before on p99).
2. The server population drops significantly.

Until then, asking for a rotation isn't going to do it. The benefit to those able to race for it is, in fact, better for them than to share those mobs with the entire community. IE. those willing to race are already getting the bigger piece of the pie by far. I don't see any rational reason for them to change their approach to raiding these targets.

[Skew]

Lets stsrt off small and rotate KDT , Vindi and Woushi

[Bubbles]

You don't understand.. The world would literally end if top guilds missed even one of these spawns.

Don't worry if this doesn't make sense to you right away..

The incoming five pages full of walls of panicked text will make it clearer.

[Breaken]

You guys are quick to blame the top guilds for raining on this parade. There are plenty of mobs the OP listed that Awakened would not have a problem rotating. We rarely do them as it is. It seems more like you aren't willing to share these "low hanging fruits" and instead of saying that, you are blaming the big bad A/A. I believe CSG and Rustle are still rotating Naggy and Vox, maybe see if they will cut you in.

Anyway, if the server is interested in rotating mobs.. Gore, Sev, VS, Fay, Tal, ... I don't know.. Vox.. Phinny.. Wuoshi.. Inny.. Let's talk. We wouldn't even want to join all of these.

[kotton05]

People think just because a/a get a vast majority that it's all their fault. But given the opportunity a/a (mostly aftermath but I'm hearing stories of awakened coming around) are willing to work with other guilds.

Approaching said guilds means you can enter a non compete agreement. But that doesn't mean kittens won't magically show up and contest your fay or w/e. But you better have diplomacy maxed and show you would be shitting up the spawns before you ask for a handout from them or else you won't even be considered a factor.

[Tetsuo]

I doubt any non GM enforced rotation would last long, cant even keep sky together without someone clearing for keys between rotations screwing over the next raid

[kotton05]

Sky is diff.

And Shit can be rotated easy but first you must be proven worthy. That's why I didn't understand fires and venerate acting like they would get any type of pixels outside of a rotation during the last rotation negotiation when aftermath was back. In these negotiations you gotta have some sort of humility when dealing with A/a unless you're locking down rare raid mobs you have 0 negotiation power.

Would like to see a new summit and egos put aside into something that is fair

[Ravager]

before you ask for a handout from them or else you won't even be considered a factor.

Cuz handouts are completely unacceptable on a free to play emulated server where 99.8% of the population torrented the client.

But go on earning those pixels, they're only special if you arbitrarily worked for them.

[RedXIII]

Another i want free pixels thread. QQ

/popcorn

[kotton05]

Cuz handouts are completely unacceptable on a free to play emulated server where 99.8% of the population torrented the client.

But go on earning those pixels, they're only special if you arbitrarily worked for them.

Don't argue with me I'm just telling you how it's viewed. I don't care either way.

[HippoNipple]

Most old world mob items are not no drop so they can sell the pieces or sell Epic MQ. It will always be useful.

[Cenii]

Rotations are a terrible idea.

[Sadiki]

Raid mobs should spawn as indifferent and the first person to hand in scout tools gets the loot

[Nibblewitz]

One mob lockout on all encounters: If you killed X this week you can't kill X next week.

[Daldaen]

2 hour respawn on everything. Will solve everything.

[Lobus]

I'm not sure I agree that it is all fueled by RMT. I'm kind of ignorant to the current state of RMT'ing on this server. My sense is that it is actually more under control now than it was several years ago, but I don't follow it anymore to be honest. The in-game value of these items, even without RMT, is more than enough to keep guilds racing for them.

The level of activity one can find for p99 RMT, even with just casual google searching, is staggering...

I was naive when I started on this server a few months ago and didn't see anything /auc in EC for RMT so I assumed it was just a boogeyman. After seeing the absurd greed by some of the plat farmers here I did a google search and finally figured out why grown ass men act that way they do on this server, gotta pay the rent dawg.

Once you accept that RMT happens, that there's little the GMs can do about it without making life miserable for the rest of us, and that it only really impacts the high end game you can adjust your play style and expectations to enjoy yourself

[Tetsuo]

One mob lockout on all encounters: If you killed X this week you can't kill X next week.
Make it a three week guild lock out, just the suggestion is going to make the people who sit on these spawns go up in arms

[fadetree]

Make MQ's stop working and it will be different. Can still sell loot rights, but that's a lot more obvious and time-sensitive.

[Dreenk317]

2 hour respawn on everything. Will solve everything.

no it wont, it will just reward the poopsockers even more lol. Instead of socking and killing once a week, they will sock and klll all week, forever...

[Tetsuo]

Make MQ's stop working and it will be different. Can still sell loot rights, but that's a lot more obvious and time-sensitive.
Yeah suggesting no more MQ will also send those who could lose revenue to take up arms

[Lowako]

Make MQ's stop working and it will be different. Can still sell loot rights, but that's a lot more obvious and time-sensitive.

I've never understood the hatred of multiquesting. Personally I find them quite convenient. I would much rather spend some time at a camp in sebilis and similar zones, or sniping named like Keldor instead of killing a trivial monster every 6 minutes and 50 seconds to get jboots/pained soul etc. MQs also make getting velious armor items a lot less luck dependent.

People selling loot rights would just be an even worse situation I think. Items like Child's Tear (People kill the mob for reasons other than the MQ) would be even more of a headache to acquire.

[Sadiki]

There's no flat solution to just removing MQing, but the general idea of removing people's urge to sock every single mob on P99 is a step in the right direction. This server has fallen so low just because of greed and unlike 17 years ago people now fully take advantage of others as much as possible. It also makes RMT painfully obvious when some random shows up to loot everything you kill for a week.
Items like Child's Tear would be even more of a headache to acquire.
Can just hold a bucket under the forums to collect these

[loramin]

People selling loot rights would just be an even worse situation I think. Items like Child's Tear (People kill the mob for reasons other than the MQ) would be even more of a headache to acquire.

First off, multi-questing is classic, so it's not going anywhere. But if we really want to hurt plat farming there's a (also not-classic, but) very simple way to do so that won't impact 99.9% of the server: institute a max plat per account limit (eg. 500k). Won't stop it entirely, but it will make the plat farmer's lives a lot harder because it will be like trying to run a business with a credit card limit of $500 (even if you get lots of those credit cards it still makes business harder). Plus, it will make it easier to catch them, because the GMs will have a better chance to see something fishy is going on when the farmers move large amounts of plat between their accounts (to get around the limit).

But that being said, it's often trotted out in these discussions that "People selling loot rights would just be an even worse situation I think." This is false.

It's just basic economics: currently (say) the Child's Tear has value of N plat because it's MQ can be sold. Therefore people compete for it because of that value. If the tear couldn't be MQed an entire class of people competing for that item would go away, and N would drop by a ton. N wouldn't be zero (you'd still have people paying to go on fear raids to get the tear), and it would mean that Shaman actually have to go to Plane of Fear to do their epic (oh the horrors!), but the cost of the ticket would be much lower (if the fear-raiding guild with all Shaman epic-ed doesn't sell that ticket it's value becomes 0, they have a strong incentive to sell it for cheap ... MUCH cheaper than the current MQ cost). Also, anyone who doesn't want to pay for a ticket at all and just wants to go with their friends or guild will have a much greater chance of finding the child.

So it would make things harder for anyone who just wants to grind plat for days and then buy their epic, but it would make things a ton easier for every Shaman who actually wants to do their epic the way they were supposed to.

Of course, this is much more true for most MQs than it is for the child's tear (because the tear requires max True Spirit faction to MQ), but you get the idea.

[Ravager]

They should just implement instances. Instances are classic. Back then they were called "other servers".

Also, server splits were classic too. Would go a long way to solving the top end congestion.

[loramin]

They should just implement instances. Instances are classic. Back then they were called "other servers".

Also, server splits were classic too. Would go a long way to solving the top end congestion.

It's ironic: all the non-classic solutions are "blocked by Verant/SOE" (in the sense that they made classic work the way it did). This solution is classic ... but it's also being thwarted by Verant/SOE (if you believe the rumors that P99 can't open new servers without getting sued).

[Lowako]

It's just basic economics: currently (say) the Child's Tear has value because it's MQ can be sold. Therefore people compete for it because of that value. If the tear had no value (other than the value to the Shaman who acquires it) an entire class of people competing for that item would go away. Yes it would mean that Shaman actually have to go to Plane of Fear to do their epic (oh the horrors!), but when they did they'd actually have a chance of seeing the iksar child because the MQ sellers would have no incentive to compete over it.

So it would make things harder for anyone who just wants to grind plat for days and then buy their epic, but it would make things a ton easier for every Shaman who actually wants to do their epic the way they were supposed to. Of course, the child tear is probably not the best example because it's harder than almost any other MQ in the game (because of the faction requirement), but you get the idea.

I understand the point you are trying to make but you picked the worst literal MQ in the game to make that point for. People would kill pofear golems even if childs tear rotted to the floor every time and couldn't be MQ'd because they drop AoN/Strings/Slimeblood etc. I also disagree with you, to an extent. There are items that only provide benefit to the person who loots it (pony cloak, eyepatch of plunder map pieces, that dude who sold pohate stuff, infestation, a broken disc, people buying ntov and vindi loot etc) and those items still have loot rights sold. I'm not quite sure what other MQs have a significant bottleneck problem but I wouldn't find it surprising for people to kill the mob, try to sell the loot rights, then loot it on an alt/friends character/friends alt/ if they can't sell it.

[loramin]

I understand the point you are trying to make but you picked the worst literal MQ in the game to make that point for.

Of course, this is much more true for most MQs than it is for the child's tear

I'm not quite sure what other MQs have a significant bottleneck problem but I wouldn't find it surprising for people to kill the mob, try to sell the loot rights, then loot it on an alt/friends character/friends alt/ if they can't sell it.

Sure. I never said eliminating MQs would magically free up every MQ. But it would make it easier for people who want to loot no-drop stuff themselves, while making it harder for people who just want to grind plat for everything (with a net effect of making overall easier). After all, you only have so many alts/friends (who are willing to show up and loot the no-drop item), and after that the item goes to waste. Selling it for any amount of plat is better than getting no plat, so at that point you sell it for whatever you can get (and the price drops).

The tear is actually kind of representative. I "bought" one (I bought a trip to Fear with a raiding guild to loot one if it dropped) before I stopped playing almost a year ago. Too lazy too look it up, but I think I paid 20k? Maybe as much as 30k, but I don't think it was that much.

Then MQ-ing it became a big thing (not sure why, clearly I missed something while I was out). Now it's selling for 2x or more what I paid (albeit with the added convenience of not having to go to Fear). Unless I'm missing something important about the price change, it seems like the logical conclusion to draw is that MQ-ing doubled the price, and eliminating MQ would halve it. Which again, is just economics: the demand of something you can buy in EC is obviously going to be a lot higher than the demand for something you have to haul your lazy butt to Fear on a Friday night for, and price is driven by demand.

[Bristlebaner]

You can hit up Phinny. Instanced raid mobs. Enjoy the pixel vending machine!

[fastboy21]

I understand the point you are trying to make but you picked the worst literal MQ in the game to make that point for. People would kill pofear golems even if childs tear rotted to the floor every time and couldn't be MQ'd because they drop AoN/Strings/Slimeblood etc. I also disagree with you, to an extent. There are items that only provide benefit to the person who loots it (pony cloak, eyepatch of plunder map pieces, that dude who sold pohate stuff, infestation, a broken disc, people buying ntov and vindi loot etc) and those items still have loot rights sold. I'm not quite sure what other MQs have a significant bottleneck problem but I wouldn't find it surprising for people to kill the mob, try to sell the loot rights, then loot it on an alt/friends character/friends alt/ if they can't sell it.

This.

The nature of trying to stop the selling of items in EQ would require a complete overhaul down to the very looting system itself. It isn't realistically possible IF the devs even wanted to do it.

The reason guilds farm "old world" content is because it was still very desirable during velious era. one of the charms of classic EQ is that velious and kunark did not make what came before obsolete...on a static server the same virtue is in someways a vice. Even if you take MQing and RMT totally off the table folks would still clear most of the content because it is needed.

I don't really see what the big issue is to be honest. Most players on p99 have stupidly easy access to their epics because of the static nature of the server and the MQ market. There are some classes that have it hard, but they would have it hard on live too (it isn't p99 that does this its the nature of EQ itself). If you really want to raid this content you need to join a raiding guild (also a feature of EQ, don't blame p99).

The last wave of progression servers used instanced content...and it was actually fun, but it certainly didn't feel like classic camping and racing EQ. There are other classic EQ emus out there that do instance raid bosses. I don't mean this insultingly, but it sounds like maybe there are other places that are already providing what you want p99 to be.

[Tetsuo]

I've never understood the hatred of multiquesting. Personally I find them quite convenient. I would much rather spend some time at a camp in sebilis and similar zones, or sniping named like Keldor instead of killing a trivial monster every 6 minutes and 50 seconds to get jboots/pained soul etc. MQs also make getting velious armor items a lot less luck dependent.

People selling loot rights would just be an even worse situation I think. Items like Child's Tear (People kill the mob for reasons other than the MQ) would be even more of a headache to acquire.

I agree MQs make things easier, but the difference between Thurg armor and J boots Ring is that one can drop off a ton of different mobs with a low chance on each kill, and the other can drop off only two mobs in the entire game which both can have a very long time between spawns. Because the AC ring is MQ able and can be a pain to get people will camp the mob over and over just to sell the MQ which in turns blocks people from doing it themselves or at the very least slows the process down to a crawl(I know a guy who sells them like hot cakes because he just puts his name on the list and farms while he waits all day over and over)

And this is where the problem with MQ happens the more people farm it for cash the harder it is for people to do it themselves and they end up buying the MQ out of frustration of being unable to do it because of competition with farmers

or simply value their time more than to wait 12 hours because of the congestion of other people trying to get the MQ for themselves and farmers trying to make a buck so they buy it.

[loramin]

I don't mean this insultingly, but it sounds like maybe there are other places that are already providing what you want p99 to be.

Not sure who you're referring to as "you" there, but since your quoting a response to something I said let me just be clear:

First off, multi-questing is classic, so it's not going anywhere.

My point wasn't that we can/should eliminate MQ; my point is that whenever we do the "what if we eliminated MQ?" thought experiment someone always trots out the "things would be harder without MQs", which seems self-verifiably false if you consider the economics.

Even if you take MQing and RMT totally off the table folks would still clear most of the content because it is needed.

The shaman epic is a perfect example: even if MQ was eliminated that won't stop the big raid guilds from monopolizing the child. However, it would force them to sell "trips to Fear" rather than "MQed tears", and since the former has far less demand than the latter the "price of a ticket" would be much lower than the current price of an MQ.

The net takeway is that a Shaman new to the server would be able to acquire their epic cheaper/sooner if MQ was eliminated (although they would have to actually leave the tunnel), and basic economics makes this obvious ... but even so that doesn't mean MQ can/should be eliminated.

EQ is a terrible game, game-design-wise. That's to be expected because it's ancient (in video game terms). So it has lots of things like multi-quests that no sane designer would implement today. But the thing is, we'll all never agree on how to improve that design, let alone convince Rogean, so we should just enjoy the terrible ancient game for what it is (ie. a lot of fun).

[solleks]

Multi questing was never intended by his lordship Brad McQuaid it should be done away with since its 2017 and people are making RMT off of multi questing

[loramin]

Multi questing was never intended by his lordship Brad McQuaid it should be done away with since its 2017 and people are making RMT off of multi questing

The day after they do that Rogean gets 500 emails "hey I found this obscure article where Brad McQuaid said that my pet feature ____ should be added/should be removed." :)


P.S. Or perhaps more realistically "Here's a video of Brad McQuaid yesterday saying that my pet feature should be added/should be removed ... and no I didn't pay him in drugs to say that ... really ..."

[titanshub]

You guys are quick to blame the top guilds for raining on this parade. There are plenty of mobs the OP listed that Awakened would not have a problem rotating. We rarely do them as it is. It seems more like you aren't willing to share these "low hanging fruits" and instead of saying that, you are blaming the big bad A/A. I believe CSG and Rustle are still rotating Naggy and Vox, maybe see if they will cut you in.

Anyway, if the server is interested in rotating mobs.. Gore, Sev, VS, Fay, Tal, ... I don't know.. Vox.. Phinny.. Wuoshi.. Inny.. Let's talk. We wouldn't even want to join all of these.

It's nice to see posts like this amongst the endless P99 trolling. It seems to me that the recent attempts at diplomacy and player driven cooperation should be applauded for bringing some much needed positivity to P99. Kittens, as a general rule, will support things that are in the best interest of the server. If there is a good faith attempt to set up a rotation on these sorts of things then we would be very interested in participating. Unfortunately, we do not have raid forum access which might make it difficult.

[icedwards]

The tear is actually kind of representative. I "bought" one (I bought a trip to Fear with a raiding guild to loot one if it dropped) before I stopped playing almost a year ago. Too lazy too look it up, but I think I paid 20k? Maybe as much as 30k, but I don't think it was that much.

Then MQ-ing it became a big thing (not sure why, clearly I missed something while I was out). Now it's selling for 2x or more what I paid (albeit with the added convenience of not having to go to Fear). Unless I'm missing something important about the price change, it seems like the logical conclusion to draw is that MQ-ing doubled the price, and eliminating MQ would halve it.

Golem spawn times were changed from every 8 hours to every 3 days+variance during the PoF 2.0 update. Iksar tears are just rarer, it's not some raiding guild pixel racket scheme driving prices up.

[loramin]

Golem spawn times were changed from every 8 hours to every 3 days+variance during the PoF 2.0 update. Iksar tears are just rarer, it's not some raiding guild pixel racket scheme driving prices up.

Thanks for the explanation, although that kills my nice tidy example :( I guess I have to admit I should have picked a different example from the tear ... but regardless of what item you pick the basic idea remains the same.

[Spyder73]

Oh yea im sure that this will definitely happen. You can kill Vox/Naggy with 5-10 players BTW.

Selo’s drums – 20k

Bladestopper – 200k+

Cloak of Flames – 70k

Prayers of Life – 150k

White Dragon scales – 200k+