Rather eye opening really ...

[Troxx]

So now that I'm 53+ on my necro, I've got to say ... I wasn't expecting this.

Mid 50s group in KC basement, rog pet not max summon was quite frankly out-damaging appropriately level melee dps flat out. We didn't have an epic monk or rogue to skew the numbers, but the necro summoned (not charm) pet was the highest damage producer for the group with just the level 39 spell haste. I'm not 55 yet, so max haste is not yet available, nor did I chain summon for the max level pet. Shaman/druid str buffs would have pumped the damage higher - as would a mage summon mask or 55 spell cast haste.

Pet dps is impressive and very consistent. Little <Boner> averaged 47dps - all while I was throwing out cc, 125/tick heal over times, ghetto mez, taps, and pumping mana.

I'm frankly surprised more groups don't actively seek out mages/necromancers.

[Dolalin]

I've been in several pet-based KC groups as a Bard, and they've all been great. People focus way too much on the holy trinity in places like Seb.

[Jmcwrestling]

Mages and necros are so underrated , it's a shame

[EQBallzz]

I have always valued necros in groups. Serious DPS plus lots of flexibility with heals, twitches, mez, charm, FD etc...who doesn't value them in groups? Mages are solid as well and with the new sneak nerf to monks..their CoH is amazing to assist with pulling.

[Samoht]

It's the bad ones that just pet attack and AFK that ruin the image of the classes entirely. It's just too easy to be just a partial contributor as a pet class than actually doing anything impressive.

[Ravager]

A necro is a group all by itself.

[Darguth]

It really sucks playing a melee DPS, putting tons of time into your toon's gear, and then being pretty clearly out-DPSed by a basic summoned pet :/

[Bristlebaner]

47dps sounds awfully high...how did you come to that conclusion?

[branamil]

How do you parse EQ damage?

[Sage Truthbearer]

Smart groups should snatch up every mage they see. A focused, properly positioned water pet does crazy sustained dps.

[skarlorn]

i fart in your general direction!

[Sancta]

It really sucks playing a melee DPS, putting tons of time into your toon's gear, and then being pretty clearly out-DPSed by a basic summoned pet :/

You may or may not be putting the wrong gear on a melee

[Lowako]

It really sucks playing a melee DPS, putting tons of time into your toon's gear, and then being pretty clearly out-DPSed by a basic summoned pet :/

Casters scale hard with levels, melees scale hard with gear. A 50s rogue with epic and proper buffs can easily hit over/around 100 dps (double the pet) and a 50s monk with epic and SoS or tstaff or double fists can easily sustain 60ish dps (still more than a pet). I think pre-epic (levels 50-54 is when i started looking at parses in KC+seb) rogues can easily do 60ish dps with buffs. You just need to put time into the right gear on a melee.

If anything I'd complain about the strength of charm pets. They typically do about as well as rogues, but even then its not worth complaining because charmed pets have a chance to completely fucking delete the caster whenever it feels like. A properly geared up and buffed charmed pet can do upwards of like 200 dps vs undead mobs though, so I suppose that is a bit strong given the utility the caster can provide as well.

[Secrets]

I mean I don't see why this is an issue. It's classic, and none of it is going to change.

Could always roll a better class if you want to min/max. Else just enjoy the ride.

[Doctor Jeff]

Secrets did you read a single post in this thread?

[Muggens]

"Dammit, why won't it read?!"

Necro powerful yes but slimy necrophiliac too

[Troxx]

47dps sounds awfully high...how did you come to that conclusion?

By parsing

[Darguth]

You may or may not be putting the wrong gear on a melee

Not exactly the point. Getting solid melee gear to scale up is not trivial. Getting a new summon spell is fairly trivial.

[Darguth]

If anything I'd complain about the strength of charm pets. They typically do about as well as rogues, but even then its not worth complaining because charmed pets have a chance to completely fucking delete the caster whenever it feels like. A properly geared up and buffed charmed pet can do upwards of like 200 dps vs undead mobs though, so I suppose that is a bit strong given the utility the caster can provide as well.

Yeah, charms are a fairly separate issue but definitely an egregious one. One of the things I hope Pantheon will address significantly better than EQ did :)

[kotton05]

I was in a 4 man epic mage seb group. Killed everything in the entire zone.

[jolanar]

It's the bad ones that just pet attack and AFK that ruin the image of the classes entirely. It's just too easy to be just a partial contributor as a pet class than actually doing anything impressive.

Exactly. People here even tell people to roll mages if they are lazy and don't want to press buttons while playing a videogame.

[Jimjam]

What got me on live was a mage could just pay a few dozen pp and a malachite and would have a tank better than an entry level geared tank for each expansion.

[Samoht]

If anything I'd complain about the strength of charm pets. They typically do about as well as rogues, but even then its not worth complaining because charmed pets have a chance to completely fucking delete the caster whenever it feels like. A properly geared up and buffed charmed pet can do upwards of like 200 dps vs undead mobs though, so I suppose that is a bit strong given the utility the caster can provide as well.

I remember playing Enchanter on a Yael raid once where I charmed a fully buffed, dual wielding ratman warrior. I smoked everybody else in total damage done. It was ridiculously double the next person. I didn't get the kill EXP because it was all casters in my group, including an epic Mage. In typical fashion, he was AFK the entire fight. Didn't cast a single nuke. I'm not even sure he told his pet to attack.

That's why people don't like Mages (or Necros).

[Troxx]

Not exactly the point. Getting solid melee gear to scale up is not trivial. Getting a new summon spell is fairly trivial.

On the flip side that level 53 necro pet will always be a level 53 necro pet. The level 53 monk, ranger, warrior, or rogue will potentially one day be level 60 - possibly with amazingly powerful gear.

Melee classes peak later and generally to a much more pronounced degree.

[tyrant49333]

So what you're saying is your pet is the best DPS in a group with no DPS classes .... Grats?

[Darguth]

On the flip side that level 53 necro pet will always be a level 53 necro pet. The level 53 monk, ranger, warrior, or rogue will potentially one day be level 60 - possibly with amazingly powerful gear.

Melee classes peak later and generally to a much more pronounced degree.

Never being a hardcore poopsocker, this is little consolation to players such as myself :)

[Thiefboy777]

Was in a Hands group and this guy charms the Undead Jailer gave it the 36% haste velium sword, did well over 200, 220-240.

[meadtj]

Talk about a nostalgia moment... I remember the first time I saw a real necro play in a group in lower guk and he cc'd 6 frogs. I was blown away bc it was stuff I didnt see decent chanters come close to doing very often. It was ridonculous. When he didnt have many mobs he was transferring mana to cleric and draining mobs of hp. It was OP. Problem is most necros don't ever master this stuff bc they like to solo all the time. So its RARE to find the really good ones that like to group.