Someone took my spawn and I partitioned . . But no response

[RaldoMcdaldo]

I need some clarification here. I and a friend were killing a 6 Min spawn on SF Island last night for over an hour and a 60 level mage came and took our spawn from us. She said it was within the rules to do that. Is that really true! And if it is, why is there a policy that promotes classism (obviously a 60 level mage can do that to many other classes any time they please) and it promotes rudeness, meanness, and bullying. I petitioned this twice, yesterday and today, to no avail. I really don't care to play a game were this type of behavior is encouraged.

[Nilstoniakrath]

Might makes right

[loramin]

I need some clarification here. I and a friend were killing a 6 Min spawn on SF Island last night for over an hour and a 60 level mage came and took our spawn from us. She said it was within the rules to do that. Is that really true! And if it is, why is there a policy that promotes classism (obviously a 60 level mage can do that to many other classes any time they please) and it promotes rudeness, meanness, and bullying. I petitioned this twice, yesterday and today, to no avail. I really don't care to play a game were this type of behavior is encouraged.

Ok first off, relax. Yes, it is against the rules to take a mob someone else has engaged (modulo some special cases like a bard doing a massive kite). And yes, the staff does respond to petitions about those issues (I had them respond to Seafury island just the other day). But you have to remember, Seafury island brings out a lot of bad behavior (I'd guess something like 10%-20% of all petitions originate there), so this sort of thing happens.

EDIT: Just thought of another special case that's very applicable to Seafury island: if you are a Shaman doing the root/rot thing, and you get so caught up with it that you start rooting more than rotting (ie. you're letting un-DoTed Seafuries sit there), then you're basically denying other people the mobs while not using them yourself. That's a no no. So I'm not sure if this was the case with you, but I just wanted to mention that IF you were doing it repeatedly the mage he might have a claim to take a mob (although he'd be on much more solid ground petitioning you rather than risking getting in trouble himself by KSing; KSing is almost never the best answer).

As someone who's been on the island a lot lately here's my advice. If someone takes a single Seafury of your's explain to them (politely if you can) that you had already engaged it. If they give it back great. I've done this many times, and had others do it to me too (it's easy to land the second hit and take a mob even though it belongs to the person who landed the first hit). If not, move on with your life. One Seafury isn't worth the stress. If the behavior persists petition ... and again, move on with your life.

Remember, the staff is 100% volunteer. That GM you're waiting on has a real life, and when they have some time to spare to help you resolve your issue they will. You might not even know it, because maybe all they do is put a note in the mage's file ... but then the next time they get a petition about that guy they do more.

But whether you can see the GMs react or not, don't get all caught up in enforcing global justice. It's a 15+ year old game run by an entirely volunteer staff, you're not going to get perfect justice 100% of the time.

Luckily, you don't need 100% perfect justice to have fun. Just trust that people who break the rules will get petitioned and punished eventually if they deserve it and do your thing.

P.S. I just realized that when you said "took our spawn from us " I assumed you had already engaged it; is that correct?

[Smurflogik]

Usually spawn stealing is frowned upon, but I believe all spawns are fair game on SF island. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think everything is a race for first tag there.

SF island is the wild west of mob tagging. Good luck out there!

[RaldoMcdaldo]

Ok first off, relax. Yes, it is against the rules to take a mob someone else has engaged (modulo some special cases like a bard doing a massive kite). And yes, the staff does respond to petitions about those issues (I had them respond to Seafury island just the other day). But you have to remember, Seafury island brings out a lot of bad behavior (I'd guess something like 10%-20% of all petitions originate there), so this sort of thing happens.

EDIT: Just thought of another special case that's very applicable to Seafury island: if you are a Shaman doing the root/rot thing, and you get so caught up with it that you start rooting more than rotting (ie. you're letting un-DoTed Seafuries sit there), then you're basically denying other people the mobs while not using them yourself. That's a no no. So I'm not sure if this was the case with you, but I just wanted to mention that IF you were doing it repeatedly the mage he might have a claim to take a mob (although he'd be on much more solid ground petitioning you rather than risking getting in trouble himself by KSing; KSing is almost never the best answer).

As someone who's been on the island a lot lately here's my advice. If someone takes a single Seafury of your's explain to them that you had already engaged it. If they give it back great (I've done this many times, and had others do it to me too; it helps if you're polite). If not, move on with your life. One seafury isn't worth the stress. If the behavior persists petition ... and again, move on with your life.

Remember, the staff is 100% volunteer. That GM you're waiting on has a real life, and when they have some time to spare to help you resolve your issue they will. You might not even know it, because maybe all they do is put a note in the mage's file ... but then the next time they get a petition about that guy and they do more.

But whether you can see the GMs react or not, don't get all caught up in enforcing global justice. It's a 15+ year old game run by an entirely volunteer staff, you're not going to get perfect justice 100% of the time.

But, more importantly, you don't need 100% perfect justice to have fun.

I appreciate your candor. I can easily put up with all types of behavior - I deal with worse than what ever happens in this game most days in my vocation. And I do understand the only thing that is perfect is the fact that nothing is perfect. But I really want to know what the game rules are for that type of behavior in that particular situation on SF Island - that's all - is it allowed, "yes" or "no"?

[loramin]

I appreciate your candor. I can easily put up with all types of behavior - I deal with worse than what ever happens in this game most days in my vocation. And I do understand the only thing that is perfect is the fact that nothing is perfect. But I really want to know what the game rules are for that type of behavior in that particular situation on SF Island - that's all - is it allowed, "yes" or "no"?

I'm no young lawyer, but my understanding is that once you have engaged a mob, unless you leave it rooted but un-damaged or unless you engage a whole ton of mobs at once (or do something similar that unfairly prevents others from getting mobs), then it is against the rules for anyone else to take it.

[Smurflogik]

I appreciate your candor. I can easily put up with all types of behavior - I deal with worse than what ever happens in this game most days in my vocation. And I do understand the only thing that is perfect is the fact that nothing is perfect. But I really want to know what the game rules are for that type of behavior in that particular situation on SF Island - that's all - is it allowed, "yes" or "no"?

You mentioned it was your spawn, and that you had been there an hour, but you didn't mention whether you had actually tagged this mob when the mage took it. I believe that would be the deciding technical factor on SF island.

[Llandris]

That island is FTE. If you are KSd, petition. Encounter logs are easy to look up. As Loramin said, I've been out there quite a bit the past few weeks. If nobody responds right away, just be patient. Your petition stays in the que until one of us responds and/or clears it.

[Nixtar]

The moment you start using "It is within the rules" as a way to justify shitty behavior you've officially joined the ranks of players who make this server a worse place to be.

[Dreenk317]

It is against the rules to take an already engaged mob that isn't yours, period.

Where this gets iffy is all the confusion about what constitutes a camp. I've seen people claim that a GM told them you can't camp wandering mobs, I've seen claims that you can't camp anything on SF island because it has its own special rules. I've even been told that the GM's won't respond to petitions at SF island (while not true, SF disputes are probably low on the list, so can take a while/not happen)

As far as I know, the only rule that applies to seafury island is FTE above all. When I farm there and someone is sitting at a spawn point, farming just the one, I leave it for them. Lots of people will try to FTE it as it spawns though, then claim ownership. And that's the grey area, can you or can't you camp wandering mobs in outdoor zones?

[RaldoMcdaldo]

You mentioned it was your spawn, and that you had been there an hour, but you didn't mention whether you had actually tagged this mob when the mage took it. I believe that would be the deciding technical factor on SF island.

She came up, placed her earth pet on the spot and proclaimed she was taking the spawn. When the next spawn came I didn't stand a chance.

[RaldoMcdaldo]

You mentioned it was your spawn, and that you had been there an hour, but you didn't mention whether you had actually tagged this mob when the mage took it. I believe that would be the deciding technical factor on SF island.

She came up and placed he earth pet on the spawn spot and proclaimed she was taking it away from us. We didn't stand a chance in any respect.

[RaldoMcdaldo]

She came up and placed her earth pet on the spot and proclaimed she was taking the spawn. When the next clops spawned, we didn't stand a chance

[RaldoMcdaldo]

obviously I'm new to this forum, sorry bout the repeats

[RaldoMcdaldo]

I really would just like to read a real answer. Question: is a player allowed to come up and take another player's established spawn spot with superior force?

[Maschenny]

She came up and placed he earth pet on the spawn spot and proclaimed she was taking it away from us. We didn't stand a chance in any respect.

Sounds like you got no response cause the person was innocent. GM probably just cleared your complaints.

[Maschenny]

I really would just like to read a real answer. Question: is a player allowed to come up and take another player's established spawn spot with superior force?

You already got an answer on page 1. On Seafury island the first person to engage the mob has rights to it.

[loramin]

I really would just like to read a real answer. Question: is a player allowed to come up and take another player's established spawn spot with superior force?

Yes, it is against the rules to take a mob someone else has engaged (modulo some special cases like a bard doing a massive kite).

It is against the rules to take an already engaged mob that isn't yours, period.

That island is FTE. If you are KSd, petition.

Maybe the problem is the acronyms: "FTE" = "First to engage". As in, whoever engages (attacks, has a pet attack, or casts a spell on) the mob first gets it. If you are trying to camp a mob and FTE rules apply (which, as I understand it, means you're outside and not camping a named spawn) then yes someone can take the mob from "your" spawn point ... because it's not "your's". Conversely mobs in dungeons and nameds are not FTE: don't try and beat the guy waiting on the ancient cyclops to the spawn, even though he's only one island away ;)

P.S. It's not a question of "superior force", it's a question of "superior reflexes". When it comes to FTE, reflexes win: even if a mage parks his pet on a spawn point, if you can attack it/cast on it before the mage pet hits it it's yours (whether it's a level 1 or level 60 pet).

[dafier]

Seafury isle is similar to end game raiding on this server. Be an ass and just run around getting FTE. You'll be fine. If you don't want to deal with it, have fun elsewhere. Don't bother because no one including the server GMs will assist. I don't mean that in a negative way. I'm trying to be blunt and to the point.

FTE matters.

[loramin]

Seafury isle is similar to end game raiding on this server. Be an ass and just run around getting FTE. You'll be fine. If you don't want to deal with it, have fun elsewhere. Don't bother because no one including the server GMs will assist. I don't mean that in a negative way. I'm trying to be blunt and to the point.

FTE matters.

You should have read the earlier posts: the GMs will in fact assist. They did for me, and one even came in to the thread to say they do.

Seafury island is a crazy place, but it's not anything goes.

[Cecily]

That island is FTE. If you are KSd, petition. Encounter logs are easy to look up. As Loramin said, I've been out there quite a bit the past few weeks. If nobody responds right away, just be patient. Your petition stays in the que until one of us responds and/or clears it.

The island has static spawn points. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to claim a spawn.

[loramin]

The island has static spawn points. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to claim a spawn.

On principle I agree. Seems to me the global rule should be "you can camp any spawn point in the game, but only one ... or you can FTE outdoor mobs".

But I'm sure the rules exist as they do to make the GMs lives easier, and I'd rather have less-busy GMs who can respond to more petitions than get to camp a Seafury spawn point :)

[Gumbo]

It sounds to me that the Mage was just being a bitch and trying to throw her level weight around...

Sort of the "I'm bigger than you" syndrome, so I would just chalk it up to an ignorant player.

[bum3]

My understanding of being new to this server and reading a lot of posts on these forums and p99 reddit and p99 reddit circlejerk. It really depends on which GM you get and what mood they are in and if they are friends with the person involved. I also realize that p99 isn't live and doesn't follow classic live rules. I have had, on a few occasions, high lvls come into my groups zone (najena, sol a) and clear it repeatedly for hours hindering our exp. And the general consensus is that the only rule that stands is FTE.

Edit: my join date says Mar 2015 but it is an alternative fact. IE i played until lvl 10 or so then quit and came back around Christmas of 2016.

[RaldoMcdaldo]

I need a real answer from a real person of authority. That has been my point all along. I have heard all of what has been said here before and as y'all can see it's quite conflicting and unspecific. Again, the question is: can someone come up to me and just take a spot I've been using?
yes or no?

[Cecily]

On principle I agree. Seems to me the global rule should be "you can camp any spawn point in the game, but only one ... or you can FTE outdoor mobs".

But I'm sure the rules exist as they do to make the GMs lives easier, and I'd rather have less-busy GMs who can respond to more petitions than get to camp a Seafury spawn point :)

Yeah. There's nothing special about seafury island that makes rules not apply there. Besides BUT BUT BUT BUT I WANT MONEY. Changes nothing.

[loramin]

My understanding of being new to this server and reading a lot of posts on these forums and p99 reddit and p99 reddit circlejerk. It really depends on which GM you get and what mood they are in and if they are friends with the person involved. I also realize that p99 isn't live and doesn't follow classic live rules. I have had, on a few occasions, high lvls come into my groups zone (najena, sol a) and clear it repeatedly for hours hindering our exp. And the general consensus is that the only rule that stands is FTE.

First off, game != forums. I can all but guarantee your experience in the game will be MUCH better than the forums will lead you to believe, because the forums tend to concentrate negativity. When you read things in the forum about how all the GMs only help their friends (or whatever), take it with a grain of salt.

Second, you may not be aware but there is a rule against zone disruption. If you're leveling in say Najena and some higher levels come in and make it impossible for you to level, A) say something (the vast majority of players will leave a big enough area for you to level in alone), and B) if they don't leave you some mobs, petition them for disruption.

Also remember FTE rules don't apply to camps in dungeons: regardless of the zone disruption rule if you have a particular camp taken no one can take it from you, whatever level.

[sezaru]

cry ass

[Gumbo]

I need a real answer from a real person of authority. That has been my point all along. I have heard all of what has been said here before and as y'all can see it's quite conflicting and unspecific. Again, the question is: can someone come up to me and just take a spot I've been using?
yes or no?

If the area you are in is known as a "camp," than no one is allowed to take that "camp" until you stop using it.

If the area you are in is known as a "FTE" or "First To Engage," than the mob goes to whoever hits it first.

I would believe that if the mob you are going after is spawning in the same spot every 6 minutes than it makes it more of a camp.

If the mob was spawning every 6 minutes but in random locations in the zone, then it's a FTE.

[loramin]

I need a real answer from a real person of authority. That has been my point all along. I have heard all of what has been said here before and as y'all can see it's quite conflicting and unspecific. Again, the question is: can someone come up to me and just take a spot I've been using?
yes or no?

That island is FTE. If you are KSd, petition. Encounter logs are easy to look up. As Loramin said, I've been out there quite a bit the past few weeks. If nobody responds right away, just be patient. Your petition stays in the que until one of us responds and/or clears it.

You will not get a more official answer than this. If you don't understand something ("what does KS mean?") ask, but stop complaining about not getting answers when a GM has already answered your question. GMs almost never bother to answer forum posts like these (probably because they're too busy in-game): appreciate it.

[Draulius]

What even is the punishment for taking spawns? SOE never did anything about this for me back in live.

[Smurflogik]

I need a real answer from a real person of authority. That has been my point all along. I have heard all of what has been said here before and as y'all can see it's quite conflicting and unspecific. Again, the question is: can someone come up to me and just take a spot I've been using?
yes or no?

There just isn't a 100%, all purpose answer. Generally, the answer is no, however with certain outdoor spawns (SF island, TT hunter/forager cycle, etc) first tag seems to be the bottom line rule. Every mob is fair game until somebody tags it.

[Cecily]

You will not get a more official answer than this. If you don't understand something ("what does KS mean?") ask, but stop complaining about not getting answers when a GM has already answered your question. GMs almost never bother to answer forum posts like these (probably because they're too busy in-game): appreciate it.

Well I mean Guide Llandris is wrong. So there's that. Nothing is purely FTE outside raid mobs.

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. It should also be noted that if you camp out or leave the zone (this includes dying/"corpsing" items), you have forfeited a camp. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

[Gumbo]

Why do I have a feeling this thread is going to turn into something about if the AC is a camp or FTE?

[RaldoMcdaldo]

GM Menden actually answered my question. So here it is: one may camp static spawns on SF Island and no one may take the spot. But one must stay on the spot to establish it as a "camp".

[mattitude]

First off, game != forums. I can all but guarantee your experience in the game will be MUCH better than the forums will lead you to believe, because the forums tend to concentrate negativity.

I agree with this. I just started a couple weeks ago and from what I see on the forums, it seems like everyone hates eachother, but luckily in game, most people are pretty helpful and friendly.

[loramin]

That island is FTE. If you are KSd, petition. Encounter logs are easy to look up. As Loramin said, I've been out there quite a bit the past few weeks. If nobody responds right away, just be patient. Your petition stays in the que until one of us responds and/or clears it.

Well I mean Guide Llandris is wrong. So there's that. Nothing is purely FTE outside raid mobs.

GM Menden actually answered my question. So here it is: one may camp static spawns on SF Island and no one may take the spot. But one must stay on the spot to establish it as a "camp".

I honestly have no idea who's right, but this sort of thing really makes me want to make my next P99 website project be an archive of server rules/rulings ...

[dafier]

GM Menden actually answered my question. So here it is: one may camp static spawns on SF Island and no one may take the spot. But one must stay on the spot to establish it as a "camp".

That's new. I mean, I really don't play anymore, but last I did I had a dude try to take my camps (3 near each other) and he lost to my mage pet every time and petitioned me. Needless to say I never heard a thing.


Of course there was a quick back and forth between us but it ended with no resolution to his issue.

[Cecily]

Llandris is wrong and right at the same time though, because it's really whatever the fuck the staff tells you at the time is how it goes. Always been like that. There's a good case for Seafuries being campable. So if someone ever tries to take mine, they are gonna lose a DPS race.

[Draulius]

IMO if SOE never punished for cases like these (or it was a rule but they never did anything about it) then they shouldn't be punished here so as to be more classic.

[RaldoMcdaldo]

I came on here to get an answer to a question. I have received that answer. If i caused "negativity" I apologize for that. Really the only thing negative about this entire thread is the fact that I was treated very poorly by a mean, and probably angry person in the game. But, this is the only experience i have ever had of this nature in the 2+ years I have played, and I did not say otherwise. Thanks to the majority of folks who contributed seemingly helpful information and opinions. To those of you who weren't quite so kind and helpful - shine on you crazy diamonds.

[loramin]

IMO if SOE never punished for cases like these (or it was a rule but they never did anything about it) then they shouldn't be punished here so as to be more classic.

Live allowed boxing because it made them more money and the cost of accounts (and physical boxes, if you didn't use EQW) limited the amount of boxing. P99 doesn't allow boxing because boxing is free here so everyone would box.

Same deal with the rules: we don't have paid GMs, and we have plenty of other differences from live, so we shouldn't expect to have the same exact rules as live.

[Tetsuo]

Same thing happened to me except it wasn't seafurry island but a normal mob, not response 3 weeks later = /

[Cecily]

Which is why defending your camp is important.

[Mzy12345]

Seafuries definitely bring out the worst in people. I was always under the impression that if you were holding down 1 static spawn you could claim it as a camp even if it was outdoors as long as you maintained a presence and were killing it right as it spawned. I do agree though that if you bring GMs into the mix you may get a different answer depending on the day and who responds.

Regardless of whatever the actual "rule" is if you and a friend had been sitting on one spawn for over an hour and a Mage parks their pet right on top of you that's a crappy thing to do. You would think someone would see 2 people holding down one Seafury spawn and leave them in peace considering there is very little money in 1 spawn split 2 ways.

[Llandris]

Well I mean Guide Llandris is wrong. So there's that. Nothing is purely FTE outside raid mobs.

Wrong. I guess I should have been more clear in my explanation. If you are sitting on a single spawn point, then sure, you can "camp" it. But if you and another player are camping 1 spawn point each, and fighting over a 3rd spawn point (that is not camped by someone), that NPC then becomes FTE. Don't expect to sit on multiple spawn points and claim it as a camp, you get 1 spawn point, the rest are FTE.

[coki]

It sounds to me that the Mage was just being a bitch and trying to throw her level weight around...

Sort of the "I'm bigger than you" syndrome, so I would just chalk it up to an ignorant player.

sounds like the mage needs to Git Gud and use a Epic pet or even fire pet instead of earth lolzzz

[Cecily]

Wrong. I guess I should have been more clear in my explanation. If you are sitting on a single spawn point, then sure, you can "camp" it. But if you and another player are camping 1 spawn point each, and fighting over a 3rd spawn point (that is not camped by someone), that NPC then becomes FTE. Don't expect to sit on multiple spawn points and claim it as a camp, you get 1 spawn point, the rest are FTE.

Thank you for clearing that up. I didn't wanna see Seafury island = 100% FTE being taken as gospel unless the staff want to implement very specific rules for the island, which I strongly believe there's no reason to.

[Jimjam]

I was duoing seafuries (on wiz) with a druid. We were very respectful and didn't quad, even though it would have been pretty entertaining for us.

We were actually there to kill the corrupted cyclops, but were killing regular sea furies to pass the time.

We had no problems with people intentionally stealing our pulls, we did have a couple of times when our spells landed at similar times to another players, but no one sperged out.

We even had a shaman offer to epic click our mobs to help us kill them faster and turn over the respawns more quickly.

To be honest the cash wasn't great. The only 'complaint' we could have about OOT was our names mysteriously disappearing from the AC camp list... Perhaps we unwittingly tagged someone elses mob and they used the list for revenge, or we got scrubbed from the list while briefly out of zone to grab potG/C?

Someone did spawn the corrupted while we were out of zone and was kind enough to let our druid loot the rot item.

Edit: actually, I do remember one thing. Someone ran Quarg directly on top of the spot on the beach we had been camping. That sucked. But overall, the island was far less wild west than the forums suggest. Wasn't great cash either though. I think I make more pulling names on my ranger in KC.

[Life617]

Get 60 go back and start fte'ing thar mates mobs, claim loot but let the corpses rot just to piss him/her off. If someone loots the corpses petition them for ninja looting.

[loramin]

Get 60 go back and start fte'ing thar mates mobs, claim loot but let the corpses rot just to piss him/her off. If someone loots the corpses petition them for ninja looting.

Yeah that, or, you know, realize you're playing a game and that making someone miserable won't make you have any more fun (and if it does you should move to Red). Either way.

[maskedmelon]

Wrong. I guess I should have been more clear in my explanation. If you are sitting on a single spawn point, then sure, you can "camp" it. But if you and another player are camping 1 spawn point each, and fighting over a 3rd spawn point (that is not camped by someone), that NPC then becomes FTE. Don't expect to sit on multiple spawn points and claim it as a camp, you get 1 spawn point, the rest are FTE.

[Pokesan]

FTE island is a shithole don't do that to yourself

[rollin5k]

I've been playing on this server for 5 or so years and I've never been to seafury island. Does that answer your question.

Thanks Obama.

[Gumbo]

Lets just nuke the whole island and make it into a wasteland... This should clear up any problems.

[NegaStoat]

Well, now I'm depressed reading this thread.

If the OP seriously had a level 60 Mage walk up to a spawn point, park an earth pet, and say "this spawn is mine" in the chat scroll, you could have put the screenshot up on the RNF forum and it would have turned into a 12-18 page gold mine.

'Wouldn't have happened on Red'.... 'what noob lvl 60 even uses an earth pet?'... 'The real crime is the abuse of the Seafuries...' -- Random Swish gif --- 'Yeah, no one bothers with that on Phinny...'

We all missed out.

[Lhancelot]

Well, now I'm depressed reading this thread.

If the OP seriously had a level 60 Mage walk up to a spawn point, park an earth pet, and say "this spawn is mine" in the chat scroll, you could have put the screenshot up on the RNF forum and it would have turned into a 12-18 page gold mine.

'Wouldn't have happened on Red'.... 'what noob lvl 60 even uses an earth pet?'... 'The real crime is the abuse of the Seafuries...' -- Random Swish gif --- 'Yeah, no one bothers with that on Phinny...'

We all missed out.

You forgot to add "neckbeards" in there somewhere too.

[Squire]

I need some clarification here. I and a friend were killing a 6 Min spawn on SF Island last night for over an hour and a 60 level mage came and took our spawn from us. She said it was within the rules to do that. Is that really true! And if it is, why is there a policy that promotes classism (obviously a 60 level mage can do that to many other classes any time they please) and it promotes rudeness, meanness, and bullying. I petitioned this twice, yesterday and today, to no avail. I really don't care to play a game were this type of behavior is encouraged.

play red then, where either you'll have no competition for your camp or if there is you can be men about it and slug it out, to the winner goes the pixels.

/thread

[Lojik]

I imagine settling disputes on seafury island makes GMs feel like they're working in a daycare

[Life617]

Seriously though, do what I do... don't bother with the dramas in OT. Or just don't have any expectations when playing. Accept that some people (many) are just dicks online, ignore them and don't let them get to you. Make friends, explore, maybe try a few quests... just keep it realistic, this is only a game. You can always just go outside meet new people. Explore the real world, spend time with family. Don't let other peoples actions in a game influence how you feel.

[Swish]

Seriously though, do what I do... don't bother with the dramas in OT. Or just don't have any expectations when playing. Accept that some people (many) are just dicks online, ignore them and don't let them get to you. Make friends, explore, maybe try a few quests... just keep it realistic, this is only a game. You can always just go outside meet new people. Explore the real world, spend time with family. Don't let other peoples actions in a game influence how you feel.

So many people could use this advice, +1

[ZiggyTheMuss]

7 pages in and nobody made any partition jokes? =\

[jolanar]

This is why I will never go to that island. With how populated it is I have a hard time believing it's even good money except at like 4 AM.

[Whirled]

Lets just nuke the whole island and make it into a wasteland... This should clear up any problems.

I imagine settling disputes on seafury island makes GMs feel like they're working in a daycare

A possible solution (but not classic)*
Add SF cyclops spawn points in the under water ruins.
Those with EB spells, items, etc. can camp those.
/dons deflecting "not classic' armor

[fadetree]

7 pages in and nobody made any partition jokes? =\

Lol, I know, I looked too,

I hope one of both of him gets what they wanted.

[Draulius]

If someone is going to take my camp then all I ask is that you don't be a jerk about it afterwards. I don't care if you took it from me fair and square but if you begin to get bad behavior involved and act like you beat me at something just because you waited for me to vend then we have a problem. You'd be surprised how much less camp related petitions there would be if people were just a little more respectful to one another. But once a player is treated poorly they often go on to do the same thing later as payback or a loss of reason to care. It spreads like a virus.

[dude]

Ill respond because I get lots of hate from the little ones when i camp stuff's for plats.

if you don't like it you need to get to higher levels in your case you need to grind to 60 and its not gonna happen in OOT my god kid, I don't know what level you are but get to MM then go to CoM then CC go back and sit on that spawn and every other spawn that mage has find him with /W and go get in his shitz

Dude wants to here this mage crying on the message board about you not the other way around.

[Tuurin]

Is it just me, or do the multitude of threads like this (KS'ers, raid a-holes, cock-block epic campers, spawn stealers, etc.) make you a bit leery about the prospects for Pantheon?

My reasoning being that it seems like a large number of people on p1999 talk about anticipating the release of Pantheon and have intention to go that route once it's released, which to me means that the two games will appeal to a similar (fringe?) type of MMO player. Call it hard-core, old-school, whatever. I too think that I'd like Pantheon, but the more that I think about it the more I'm inclined to believe that it will just turn into the same BS-fest that P1999 often becomes.

Or is there a reason to believe that Pantheon won't turn into the same denizen of no-lifers that P1999 has become?

[fadetree]

It will, but they will self select into their crabbed little corners and the flood of normal people will dilute it.

[zati]

Wrong. I guess I should have been more clear in my explanation. If you are sitting on a single spawn point, then sure, you can "camp" it. But if you and another player are camping 1 spawn point each, and fighting over a 3rd spawn point (that is not camped by someone), that NPC then becomes FTE. Don't expect to sit on multiple spawn points and claim it as a camp, you get 1 spawn point, the rest are FTE.

does this apply only to SF island? what about other zones for example Karnors Castle?

[fastboy21]

does this apply only to SF island? what about other zones for example Karnors Castle?

Its people like this that keep the guides busy...

Learn to share. Put your rule book down.

[loramin]

does this apply only to SF island? what about other zones for example Karnors Castle?

I believe outdoor zones default to FTE, with the exception being that someone can camp a single spawn point. In dungeons (eg. Karnors) you can camp as many spawn points as you want, but if someone else wants one you either have to let them have it or make it your sole camp.

But until someone actually writes down all the server rules in one place please take anything I or anyone else says with a massive pile of salt (except when a GM/guide says something, although as this thread showed even they can be misunderstood).

[Zemus]

Those are the signs of a failing HDD. The best thing you can do is to recover your important data as fast as possible, because your windows partition will fail soon and you will not be able to boot anymore after a while. I know this from my experience, as i had a failing drive too (the same signs). Try not to use it at all as it will short it's lifespan with every move.

Try the following recovery programs (or copy it manually) to get yor most important data out of your laptop to any external HDD or a few USB flashdrives to match the size of your data.

[loramin]

Its people like this that keep the guides busy...

Learn to share. Put your rule book down.

What's wrong with someone wanting to know the rules of the game they're playing?

Honestly I'd think that if more people knew and abided by the server rules we'd have a better server with less work for GMs, not more.

[Ravager]

I only partition when Windows has the yips and I need to reformat and reinstall.

[fastboy21]

What's wrong with someone wanting to know the rules of the game they're playing?

Honestly I'd think that if more people knew and abided by the server rules we'd have a better server with less work for GMs, not more.

Because it is a loaded question.

Some fool is going to misunderstand/interpret the "stated" rule, play rule lawyer, and go and sit in the middle of somebody's camp in KC and claim that he can take any single spawn in the game if he is willing to sit there.

If everyone knew and abided by all the rules, as you put it, then the server would be a better place. Welcome to reality where some folks (jerks) read the rules through the lens of what is good for them and ignore the obvious: that this is a game and you already know how to play nice.

I can already see someone "camping" a single warlord spawn in the well room. LCY will say it is their camp. The newly armed rules lawyer will then make KC the wonderful place it already is on a daily basis...

[loramin]

Because it is a loaded question.

Some fool is going to misunderstand/interpret the "stated" rule, play rule lawyer, and go and sit in the middle of somebody's camp in KC and claim that he can take any single spawn in the game if he is willing to sit there.

And this anti-social miscreant you're talking about ... do you honestly think they're going to behave like an angel just because they don't know the rules? People who behave badly are going to behave badly whether or not they understand the server rules. But if more of the server knew the rules they'd be able to call the rule-breakers out instead of (as often is the case with the newer folks) thinking this server is full of jerks with nothing to stop them from being jerks.

I don't understand why the rules have to be some secret document that's spread across hundreds of forum posts and made up of GM messages, people claiming that a GM said something, people who have no idea what they're about (but that doesn't stop them), etc. all just because a few people might try to game the system. I can't speak for GMs, but I'd be willing to bet rules lawyers aren't even a quarter of as much of a problem as rule-breakers are, and I really doubt that they care if someone tries to lawyer them (they'll just allocate the punishment they see fit regardless).

The whole server should know and play by the rules, and the fastest way to get the later is to make the former happen, IMHO.

P.S. And there's nothing at all wrong with stating rules like "You can take a single camp in the outdoors, or multiple camps indoors until someone wants one ... and the GMs can and will override this whenever they damn well feel like it if they feel someone is abusing this rule." Simple solution even if you think laywers are a real problem.

[fastboy21]

And this anti-social miscreant you're talking about ... do you honestly think they're going to behave like an angel just because they don't know the rules? People who behave badly are going to behave badly whether or not they understand the server rules. But if more of the server knew the rules they'd be able to call the rule-breakers out instead of (as often is the case with the newer folks) thinking this server is full of jerks with nothing to stop them from being jerks.

I don't understand why the rules have to be some secret document that's spread across hundreds of forum posts and made up of GM messages, people claiming that a GM said something, people who have no idea what they're about (but that doesn't stop them), etc. all just because a few people might try to game the system. I can't speak for GMs, but I'd be willing to bet rules lawyers aren't even a quarter of as much of a problem as rule-breakers are, and I really doubt that they care if someone tries to lawyer them (they'll just allocate the punishment they see fit regardless).

The whole server should know and play by the rules, and the fastest way to get the later is to make the former happen, IMHO.

You talk about the rules as though there is a perfect list somewhere that is being kept hidden.

The rules are a list of principles that the GMs have to interpret from the general to the specific each time they apply them. There is no perfect complete list that can be created and promulgated that will ever change this reality.

This is one of the reasons why EQ is such a great game: the mechanics allow you to be a jerk if you want to be one OR to be a good guy if you want to be one. It will always be the most important thing in an EQ community. Even if there were a list of rules clearly explaining everything there wouldn't be enough GMs to enforce the rules each time someone did something that was against them.

So, while I agree with you in spirit, there is no list in reality that can be made and shared that would address anywhere near the infinite set of scenarios that the rules need to applied to in game. When GMs try to do this they often create more problems for themselves by accidentally arming a rules lawyer with a new argument.

There are some specific rules/rulings for some of the common scenarios that come up. I agree with you in your other posts that the server hasn't done a great job of sharing these in a single place on the website...most of the specific rulings you learn about as you play and talk with other players and GMs. Like how lists work, FTE outdoor nameds, which camps are two camps (Hands/WL in KC, eg.)...its a free server though and I don't fault anyone for not treating it like a full time job.

[loramin]

there is no list in reality that ... would address anywhere near the infinite set of scenarios

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Let's say our current rules page has 20% (completely made-up number) of the actual rules (ie. not GM interpretations) on it. Saying we can't have 100% of the rules on it doesn't mean we can't shoot for 40% or even 60%.

When GMs try to do this they often create more problems for themselves by accidentally arming a rules lawyer with a new argument.

Pics or it didn't happen ;) Seriously though, while I don't know your basis for that claim, the forums and the game are very different, so I'd be cautious about assuming that a few ForumQuest lawyers are actually representative of a significant issue for GMs. But if you've got a quote from a GM to the effect of "god I hate dealing with all these rules lawyers in-game; whose idea was it to tell the players what the rules are!?!?" I will happily change my position.

I agree with you in your other posts that the server hasn't done a great job of sharing these in a single place on the website...most of the specific rulings you learn about as you play and talk with other players and GMs. Like how lists work, FTE outdoor nameds, which camps are two camps (Hands/WL in KC, eg.)

I really think we agree more than we disagree. I just feel that "learn[ing] about as you play and talk with other players and GMs" shouldn't be the only way. Based on my experience, it leads to non-ForumQuestors and new folks being in the dark about a lot of things, and just generally leads to the spread of misinformation (as the rules essentially have to go through a game of "telephone" before they get to many players).

I don't fault anyone for not treating it like a full time job.
Neither do I, so please understand that me saying "hey we could make the rules page better" is not me saying "hey staff, you're doing a shitty job of explaining the rules, what is wrong with you people?" (one would hope that would be implicit, but better safe than sorry here).

Also, as a former Literature major and the author of one P99 document (I wrote the installation guide on the wiki for Derubael), I would be more than happy to volunteer with the editing and/or creation of any rules document. I'm not trying to make more work for the staff ... although even if I wrote it I'm sure I'd have to bother some staff to read/verify it, so I guess that's not 100% true.

[fastboy21]

Pics or it didn't happen ;) Seriously though, while I don't know your basis for that claim, the forums and the game are very different, so I'd be cautious about assuming that a few ForumQuest lawyers are actually representative of a significant issue for GMs. But if you've got a quote from a GM to the effect of "god I hate dealing with all these rules lawyers in-game; whose idea was it to tell the players what the rules are!?!?" I will happily change my position.



It kind of happened right in this thread. A guide replied with a comment to try and help clarify the rules and accidentally opened the door to what was said being interpreted wrongly.

[loramin]

It kind of happened right in this thread. A guide replied with a comment to try and help clarify the rules and accidentally opened the door to what was said being interpreted wrongly.

Right, but a few points:


the forum and the server aren't the same; a big part of why I think improving the rules page would be valuable is specifically to help non-ForumQuestors
presumably a planned and well-written rules page would be less confusing than a guide saying things "off the cuff"
this whole thread could have been avoided entirely if OP had known the rules better (as proof I'd suggest that if it was you in OP's position you wouldn't have made this thread)

Rules lawyers exist. They will try to bend rules to their favor. Neither of those facts preclude making the rules known to the server on a rules page.

But look if you really truly want to argue that we should keep rules like "if you have two camps and someone wants one you have to pick one" or "the first person to engage a non-camped mob gets it, and 'engaged' means _____" as dark secrets that only the ForumQuesting elite know to protect our guides/GMs... well then I'm not sure anything I could say could convince you.

[fastboy21]

Right, but a few points:


But look if you really truly want to argue that we should keep rules like "if you have two camps and someone wants one you have to pick one" or "the first person to engage a non-camped mob gets it, and 'engaged' means _____" as dark secrets that only the ForumQuesting elite know to protect our guides/GMs... well then I'm not sure anything I could say could convince you.

I didn't argue in favor of that. I already said that basic rule principles, like the ones listed above, could be better organized in the wiki or a rules page, etc.

[mcoy]

I repeat this as my mantra:

"Your reputation is the easiest thing to maintain, and the hardest to repair."

Do with that what you will.

-Mcoy (Rodcet Nife)

[Triiz]

The easy solution here if someone tries to do this in the future is sit right on top of the spawn. SF should aggro a sitting PC before a pet as far as I know.

[zati]

Because it is a loaded question.

Some fool is going to misunderstand/interpret the "stated" rule, play rule lawyer, and go and sit in the middle of somebody's camp in KC and claim that he can take any single spawn in the game if he is willing to sit there.

If everyone knew and abided by all the rules, as you put it, then the server would be a better place. Welcome to reality where some folks (jerks) read the rules through the lens of what is good for them and ignore the obvious: that this is a game and you already know how to play nice.

I can already see someone "camping" a single warlord spawn in the well room. LCY will say it is their camp. The newly armed rules lawyer will then make KC the wonderful place it already is on a daily basis...

u sound rustled but it was a simple question really. i asked because what you said actually DID happen to my group at one point in my lvlin career. a Monk fd'd at warlord room near well, camping one spawn point. nothing a low lvl group can do it about it wit the rules as they are.. or when no gms are around to enforce "play nicely". sometimes hard and fast rules should be put in place "Per zone"? IDK i don't level in there anymore but it'd be nice to know new players wont have to go through a bunch of unwanted situations when all they really want to do is to enjoy the game

[Jimjam]

Why would a single monk camping a single spawn in KC be such a disaster anyway?

As far a I can tell the culture in KC is that the spawns in your groups room is yours, everything else is more or less FFA.

[Bubbles]

98% of all camp disputes involve Mages and Shamans. Both of which live on seafury island. You go there, you will have a bad time. It's Karnor's Castle for the anti-social.

[Jimjam]

98% of all camp disputes involve Mages and Shamans. Both of which live on seafury island. You go there, you will have a bad time. It's Karnor's Castle for the anti-social.

We just have to be thankful gnomes can't be shamans; that would be game, set & match.

[Dronuspk]

98% of all camp disputes involve Mages and Shamans. Both of which live on seafury island. You go there, you will have a bad time. It's Karnor's Castle for the anti-social. The bolded is hilariously true. I never thought about it like that.

I didn't read through 9 pages of this, but anyone have the Mages name? I like to keep an eye out for asshats.