Looting Rules

[Kittens]

A bard was kiting numerous mobs near KC and he lets numerous corpses rot because they have no value to him. If he says that I can't loot any of "his" rotting corpses (monsters he killed which don't aren't particularly valuable) once his corpse possession timer has expired, can I still loot the corpses?

Thanks. He was telling me people get banned over this. It seems fair game to me, if you loot a corpse whose possession timer has cleared (and thus allowing anyone to loot).

[Troxx]

If you didn't kill it you don't have the right to loot it without permission.

[Kittens]

Then what's the point of a loot expiration timer? Is there a place I can see this rule in writing?

[Jimjam]

Then what's the point of a loot expiration timer?

So someone outside of the xp group can be given permission to loot it.

[Muggens]

Sure go-ahead and loot

[Cecily]

Items on corpses belong to the person or group or raid that killed them. The corpse being locked or not does not change that. -Especially- if that person, group, or raid is present and asks you not to loot them. It's ninja looting if they call you on it. It doesn't hurt to ask if you can loot, but if they say no.. don't.

[Kittens]

Precisely, so what is Troxx talking about then? His idea would negate the necessity of a loot timer.

[Cecily]

He said the exact same thing I just did. The timer is an EQ feature. Server rules, the more important thing in this discussion, say you can't ninja loot. Ask first. Respect what they tell you.

[Kittens]

Please post a link to these rules.

[Troxx]

Precisely, so what is Troxx talking about then? His idea would negate the necessity of a loot timer.

It's simple. If you didn't kill it, you have no right to loot it. If the person who kills it decides to let it rot, that is their choice. Ask and get permission or don't loot it.

It's really that simple.

[Cecily]

Please post a link to these rules.

Here you go. Anthrax looted one of our weapons we didn't want. The corpse had 13 or so seconds left on it.
We got him suspended because he's a giant tool.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78379&highlight=ninja+anthrax

[Kittens]

Please post a link to these rules.

[Llandris]

It's been said several times ITT already but yes, If you did not kill it, you do not have the right to loot it unless given permission by that player/group. The corpse timer is irrelevant.

[Troxx]

:drops microphone

[bum3]

I understand your frustration Kittens. Rules that don't make sense and weren't classic are put in to keep the loot right sellers happy. On live ninja looting was when a person in the party/raid looted without following the agreed upon loot rules of the group/raid. Loot expiration was fair game. The problem is you are following classic live rule mindset and haven't learned p99 rules. There are hypothesis' out there of why it is like this. I'll let you find them on your own.

[Troxx]

Uh, no.

On live looting a mob past the open/closed loot timer was a bannable offense. Orc pawn or Lady Vox - it's irrelevant. The rule is and was the same. If you didn't kill it, you have no right to the drops. Doing otherwise is ninja looting.

This is basic fcking stuff here - absolutely nothing complicated.

[Llandris]

Loot expiration was fair game.

No, It wasn't.

[Draulius]

This sounds like an easy rule to exploit into getting someone suspended, especially someone you don't like as Cecily said. Not sure how I feel about this.

Just leave a valuable corpse unlooted, say nothing about it and report the person that grabs it. Maybe even cast invis or hide first. Kinda BS.

[Cecily]

This sounds like an easy rule to exploit into getting someone suspended, especially someone you don't like as Cecily said. Not sure how I feel about this.

Just leave a valuable corpse unlooted, say nothing about it and report the person that grabs it. Maybe even cast invis or hide first. Kinda BS.

Agreed. Gamers are the worst people. But it's really easy to not break that rule too.

[Troxx]

The easy way to not risk getting in trouble is to not be in the practice of looting things you did not kill.

Not.

Complicated.

[Kittens]

Obviously on high priority targets with high priority items, I can understand this rule being in effect. But on corpses that have negligible value (twenty drolvarg gnasher corpses left to rot in Dreadlands) I could understand why this rule might seem less applicable.

I think it could be cool if there was a link to server rules which included this rule so that people can point to it, not rely on a GM to verify it on a per post basis.

As my final perception on it, negligible value corpses, if left to rot unlooted, should be prone to the corpse possession timer, not an arbitrary decision by the original killer who clearly doesn't value the corpse, but wishes to leverage his subjectivity upon others.

Thank you for verifying Llandris!

[Cecily]

You brought a good point. It's not officially stated in the PNP as far as my skimming could tell. Like ALOT of things on this server, it's just a well known server policy and older players like myself and Troxx are trying very hard to get you up to speed on it.

[Draulius]

Obviously on high priority targets with high priority items, I can understand this rule being in effect. But on corpses that have negligible value (twenty drolvarg gnasher corpses left to rot in Dreadlands) I could hope this rule might seem less applicable.

I think it could be cool if there was a link to server rules which included this rule so that people can point to it, not rely on a GM to verify it on a per post basis.

Thank you for verifying Llandris!

I agree. This rule shouldn't be enforced on low value corpses. Up to GM discretion.

[Rygar]

Then what's the point of a loot expiration timer? Is there a place I can see this rule in writing?

Please post a link to these rules.

The Detoxx is strong in you! You will make a mighty neckbeard one day.

If bard was letting corpses poof just to cheese you off, he is just a jerk. Call his bluff and loot it, let a GM laugh at his tears.

[Llandris]

Obviously on high priority targets with high priority items, I can understand this rule being in effect. But on corpses that have negligible value (twenty drolvarg gnasher corpses left to rot in Dreadlands) I could hope this rule might seem less applicable.

I think it could be cool if there was a link to server rules which included this rule so that people can point to it, not rely on a GM to verify it on a per post basis.

Thank you for verifying Llandris!

Did you try asking nicely if you can loot his corpses? A lot of these player conflicts can simply be solved (without GM intervention) if players just talk to each other.

[Draulius]

The Detoxx is strong in you! You will make a mighty neckbeard one day.

If bard was letting corpses poof just to cheese you off, he is just a jerk. Call his bluff and loot it, let a GM laugh at his tears.

I agree if he was just going to let them rot on purpose I don't see why it should matter.

[bum3]

No, It wasn't.

I was a guide on Tunare. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

[rollin5k]

Fuck this bard, loot up man!

[indiscriminate_hater]

Did you know that if a player sells an item to a vendor, you can then buy it from that vendor without any repercussion?

[Kittens]

Did you know that if a player sells an item to a vendor, you can then buy it from that vendor without any repercussion?

I wonder if this is relevant. Can we make the abstraction that a corpse is a vendor who sells his items for free?

[maskedmelon]

Sure go-ahead and loot

best advice. good luck OP. thank you for consulting us first! ^^

[loramin]

No, It wasn't.

I was a guide on Tunare. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Let us not forget that live had many servers, and the rules were definitely not uniform between them.

So maybe one of you is wrong, but maybe neither of you are.

[Jimjam]

I wonder if this is relevant. Can we make the abstraction that a corpse is a vendor who sells his items for free?

No, a corpse is more like a communal bank for the force that created it, that destroys itself and any items in it after 7-30 mins.

[Whirled]

Where would be the threshold of "what is ok to loot" and "what is not"?
Orc pawn picks = ok to loot?
Drolvarg teeth = not?
Would anyone actually petition over such common drop loot though?
inb4, How dare you take my bone chips!
Dude, I saw you loot my a goblin warrior corpse. Give me back that 9 gold & onyx!!!!

[jolanar]

If you loot a corpse in an empty forest, does it make a sound?

[Nilstoniakrath]

So if some dumb @$$ bard drops a corpse on top of a mob I am killing, and runs to the other side of the zone, and I loot his mob by accident, that is ban-able? Nice

[bum3]

Let us not forget that live had many servers, and the rules were definitely not uniform between them.

So maybe one of you is wrong, but maybe neither of you are.

I asked a friend who worked for SOE up until Daybreak let his team go. He said for me to stfu and apologize. That it doesn't matter and GM/guides are never wrong. =) So I apologize. I, clearly, forgot my place as a pixel civilian.

[myriverse]

A wise quote from the EQ USENET group, circa Feb 2000:

"If you value your reputation, ask before looting someone else's kill, no matter how long they have left it there."

(emphasis mine)

But people who get pissy about loot they leave to rot are just bringing bad karma on themselves.

[Lagaidh]

I've played here off and on for a while and I've never been above looking in on a corpse that's been left behind.

I have yet to receive a single tell...

/shrug ymmv

If somebody did make a stink over a fine steel 2-hander and the jade shard, I'd give it back, apologize, and make a mental note of whether or not this person's a dick. Just hasn't happened in six years+ of play.

[fadetree]

I remember people doing loot locks where they would park a character in loot on a mob past the unlock time waiting for the intended looter to arrive.

[Tenet]

Would that work though? If you apply a loot lock to a corpse, you cannot extend the corpse poofing timer, can you?
Or if you can, what happens when the intended looter arrives and the locking person stops looting? Would the corpse not poof immediately so that the intended looter cannot loot it anymore?

[RiffDaemon]

"Locking" a corpse was to prevent people from swooping in while your authorized looter was on his way. This didn't extend the poof timer (if memory serves).

[Dreenk317]

Obviously on high priority targets with high priority items, I can understand this rule being in effect. But on corpses that have negligible value (twenty drolvarg gnasher corpses left to rot in Dreadlands) I could understand why this rule might seem less applicable.

I think it could be cool if there was a link to server rules which included this rule so that people can point to it, not rely on a GM to verify it on a per post basis.

As my final perception on it, negligible value corpses, if left to rot unlooted, should be prone to the corpse possession timer, not an arbitrary decision by the original killer who clearly doesn't value the corpse, but wishes to leverage his subjectivity upon others.

Thank you for verifying Llandris!


Just to put another perspective out there. Most bards pull and kite in the same spot of a zone every time. If you are in his pull area, looting his corpses, and he returns with another pull. He risks training you, for which he could get banned.

So maybe he was telling people not to loot the corpses as a way of keeping people away from his kite spot so as to have less risk of training them.

Just a thought.

[Dreenk317]

Would that work though? If you apply a loot lock to a corpse, you cannot extend the corpse poofing timer, can you?
Or if you can, what happens when the intended looter arrives and the locking person stops looting? Would the corpse not poof immediately so that the intended looter cannot loot it anymore?

You CAN NOT extend the timer. If you are "looting" and the timer ends, you will get kicked out of the loot window and the corpse will then poof. Tested it.

[Kittens]

No, a corpse is more like a communal bank for the force that created it, that destroys itself and any items in it after 7-30 mins.

According to game code, it's a communal bank for the force that created it until the possession timer expires, then it becomes an open communal bank for everyone, then destroys itself.

According to pure game code, loot rights expand to the entire population of the server once the corpse possession timer expires. Pure game code.

Obviously, pure game code is at odds with server rules.

That's my orc pawn corpse, bra. You loot it and you're getting banned.

[Rygar]

According to game code, it's a communal bank for the force that created it until the possession timer expires, then it becomes an open communal bank for everyone, then destroys itself.

According to pure game code, loot rights expand to the entire population of the server once the corpse possession timer expires. Pure game code.

Obviously, pure game code is at odds with server rules.

That's my orc pawn corpse, bra. You loot it and you're getting banned.

Seriously, apply to a top end raid guild. P99 needs more rule lawyers like yourself to make sense of things.

[Nibblewitz]

Can I pick up a modulating rod that was dropped on the ground?

Serious question.

[Rygar]

Can I pick up a modulating rod that was dropped on the ground?

Serious question.

Did you ask the mage that dropped it and/or other user that dropped it? Show me where this rule is written!!!!!!

[Nibblewitz]

I died while filling out the paperwork for the acquisitions of said mod rod.

[Jimjam]

According to game code, it's a communal bank for the force that created it until the possession timer expires, then it becomes an open communal bank for everyone, then destroys itself.

According to pure game code, loot rights expand to the entire population of the server once the corpse possession timer expires. Pure game code.

Obviously, pure game code is at odds with server rules.

That's my orc pawn corpse, bra. You loot it and you're getting banned.
I don't see how they are at odds.

My group kills an orc pawn, I tell your group you may loot a scalp. This is allowed by the rules, and only possible because there is an unlock timer as part of the game mechanics.

The rules also allow my group to kill orc pawns and tell your group not to loot orc pawn picks. Perhaps our inventories are full, but we don't want other people getting in on some of our sweet pawn pick monopoly.

Rightly or wrongly, on this server corpses belong to the people that created them. Just because you can loot a corpse / train a party using the game mechanics doesn't mean the rules should allow it.

Oh, on a side note, if the loot wasn't a big deal then surely you wouldn't be fussed over whether you are allowed to loot it or not?

[Whirled]

This is what you tell them when they try to loot your stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f6l1QljpMo

[Robbintha Hood]

No, It wasn't.

Yes, it was.

[Kittens]

I died while filling out the paperwork for the acquisitions of said mod rod.

XD

[Nilstoniakrath]

Can I pick up a modulating rod that was dropped on the ground?

Serious question.

Serious lawyer questing: Are the rules for looting applicable to drops? What happens if someone loots their own mob, but their inventory is full and the item falls to the ground? Can I get some one banned for jumping on my drop and pop transfer between my own characters?

[Jimjam]

Serious lawyer questing: Are the rules for looting applicable to drops? What happens if someone loots their own mob, but their inventory is full and the item falls to the ground? Can I get some one banned for jumping on my drop and pop transfer between my own characters?

No, if you drop something on the ground, or sell it to a merchant, it stops being your characters 'property' and it is basically a free for all item.

[Bubbles]

Wait, a bard threatened to petition you for zone disruption? The f*ck is this world coming to.

[Jimjam]

Wait, a bard threatened to petition you for zone disruption? The f*ck is this world coming to.

The real question is, whether the precedent that you may peel mobs off a player who has taken more than 4 mobs at a time still applies after the death of the mob.

If that bard is kiting 7 mobs, would that give permission to 'pull' 3 of the mobs post mortem and loot them? :p

[Swish]

There's spiteful bards out there, if there's a chance of social aggro they might see what happened and decide they're zoning out.

Incoming to you in 3...2...1...

[Teako]

ITT: OP tries to "prove it" to a long standing rule. Insists it's not an actual rule. Guide shuts him down. Rule is somehow unfair that he didn't know of because he can't steal loot.

[katrik]

Is it just me, or letting something rot that clearly nobody wants versus letting someone not in your group have it... seem a little ridiculous.. and more importantly.. selfish? Hearing stuff like this and all the raid cesspool drama makes me never ever want to raid. I'm kind of afraid by just existing in someone's raid group would get me suspended or in trouble. Just an observation from a super casual.

[Llodd]

This all reminds me of the time I was camping xalgoz for his staff.

A couple of TMO's (yeah a long time ago) came along asking if they could loot the HS key part to which I said sure for 5K.

Anyway they looked suprised but just sat there waiting for the corpse to open and proceeded to loot the fang without any payment !!

Off they went with their ill gotten gains, so I sent a tell demanding 5k, and even offered them an extremely reasonable repayment plan if their funds were short!! Next thing I know they've petitioned me and a GM contacts me to tell me to stop bullying them !! I got a good laugh out of it.

Technically I was in the right even if I was just messing about. And yet I'm the one who gets a telling off xD

[Swish]

This all reminds me of the time I was camping xalgoz for his staff.

A couple of TMO's (yeah a long time ago) came along asking if they could loot the HS key part to which I said sure for 5K.

Anyway they looked suprised but just sat there waiting for the corpse to open and proceeded to loot the fang without any payment !!

Off they went with their ill gotten gains, so I sent a tell demanding 5k, and even offered them an extremely reasonable repayment plan if their funds were short!! Next thing I know they've petitioned me and a GM contacts me to tell me to stop bullying them !! I got a good laugh out of it.

Technically I was in the right even if I was just messing about. And yet I'm the one who gets a telling off xD

lol TMO. I went into Droga one time on my necro to grind up some faction. There's about 8 TMO guys sat at the entrance...they're doing Droga AOE for faction. I say hi but they stay quiet. Next pull comes in, I decide I might as well get everything tagged - it all dies. Then one of them says "2k per pull", I laugh and basically say I'm going to tag everything without disrupting the death process. They then ask if I'll help pull more goblins to the entrance. Ended up doing that as a compromise, everybody won. Cheeky gits though, as if there was a chance I might have paid it :p

[Jimjam]

Is it just me, or letting something rot that clearly nobody wants versus letting someone not in your group have it... seem a little ridiculous.. and more importantly.. selfish? Hearing stuff like this and all the raid cesspool drama makes me never ever want to raid. I'm kind of afraid by just existing in someone's raid group would get me suspended or in trouble. Just an observation from a super casual.

I totally agree, I think some people are very jealous (it's mine and you can't have it) or greedy (you can have it if you pay). I'm just trying to relay how I understand the rules.

I'm certainly not going to be one of those people who make ridiculous / unprovable statements to try make themselves seem generous (you know the ones, "I gave away velious quest plate legs, pet spell scrolls, jboots, blahblah blah for free. Look at me I'm so kind").

[Kittens]

ITT: OP tries to "prove it" to a long standing rule. Insists it's not an actual rule. Guide shuts him down. Rule is somehow unfair that he didn't know of because he can't steal loot.

Wow, I sense the passive aggressiveness in this. I think this might be the salty bard who put me on the no loot list which was probably a result of him getting his feelings hurt.

I was querying whether or not an esoteric server rule, which is contradictory to pure game code, exists. This isn't ninja-looting, this is looting negligible-value-corpses left to rot unlooted as a free action ungoverned by another player (which can be very subjective and therefore bad).

Please quote me saying that the rule is unfair, otherwise you're fabricating things. If you want something to quote, here, quote this: I think that in the context in which I framed it earlier, the rule is ridiculous as provides an arbitrary basis for discrimination and enables unwieldy subjectivity to be applied to particular persons. This rule conflicts with the loot possession timer (pure game code) which extends looting rights of a corpse to the entire population of the server after a given period time. To say that you own a corpse and can dictate who or who does not loot it as a subjective choice is to negate the loot possession timer, which is hard game code. This isn't me saying it's unfair, this is me saying that it conflicts with pure game code.

Also, guide didn't "shut me down" as you claim, he verified whether or not the rule existed, which was the point of this post and I in fact thanked him for verifying the existence of this rule. The other point of this post was to show how ridiculous this rule is in some contexts.

[Axlrose]

Now I feel bad looting all those wasting away chunks of meat and ruined bear pelt littering East Commonlands with seconds left on the corpse... :(

[Mags]

Now I feel bad looting all those wasting away chunks of meat and ruined bear pelt littering East Commonlands with seconds left on the corpse... :(

Me tooo :( I'm Lawful good IRL and this is freakin' me out! D:

[dslaybac]

Can someone post the rules regarding this looting "rule?" I mean an official post by the server admins and not some thread about something that happened in 2012.

I would like to see it in writing please!

[Whirled]

So far, we have...
If the player says, "yes", loot away.
If not, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lITBGjNEp08

[Dreenk317]

Can someone post the rules regarding this looting "rule?" I mean an official post by the server admins and not some thread about something that happened in 2012.

I would like to see it in writing please!

I assume your trolling, because it's been linked to, quoted, and a gmhopped in and backed it up.

[azeth]

If you didn't kill it you don't have the right to loot it without permission.

There is no other interpretation or other way to say this.

If you got exp on a corpse, its contents belong to you. If you did not, looting = ninja looting.

i often feel like people are unable to see the bigger picture. The reason this is stringent is to allow 0 room for interpretation.

A GM/Guide always can subjectively rule, but they need an objective basis.

[Mags]

There is no other interpretation or other way to say this.

If you got exp on a corpse, its contents belong to you. If you did not, looting = ninja looting.

i often feel like people are unable to see the bigger picture. The reason this is stringent is to allow 0 room for interpretation.

A GM/Guide always can subjectively rule, but they need an objective basis.

I guess I just feel like a weenie because I am/was always too embarrassed to ask someone if I could loot their corpses while they were standing there, or even if I knew they killed it (so I never looted anything, obvs). I never, in a million years, thought a random bixie corpse in an empty zone would be ninja looting. :| I understand the rule, and I will follow it, just feel bad for not realizing the latter for sooo many years.

[Jimjam]

Now I feel bad looting all those wasting away chunks of meat and ruined bear pelt littering East Commonlands with seconds left on the corpse... :(

Druids are leaving them there to compost and improve spawns ya know? Don't interfere with nature!

[Sebastionleo]

I remember people doing loot locks where they would park a character in loot on a mob past the unlock time waiting for the intended looter to arrive.

We did this just the other night waiting for our buddy's SK alt to show up and loot an Ashenbone Shield off of General in Kith.

[Gumbo]

So this means I can get people in trouble by killing a mob, waiting in the shadows and as soon as someone goes to loot it. I jump out and shout MINE! and petition them for loot stealing...

[azeth]

So this means I can get people in trouble by killing a mob, waiting in the shadows and as soon as someone goes to loot it. I jump out and shout MINE! and petition them for loot stealing...

if the gms and guides were robots, sure. understand these are real people, in their 20s and 30s. if you were in their shoes, what would you do? tolerate that level of shitdom or ignore it?

[fastboy21]

if the gms and guides were robots, sure. understand these are real people, in their 20s and 30s. if you were in their shoes, what would you do? tolerate that level of shitdom or ignore it?

I'm pretty sure Nilbog is from the future, not positive if he is cyborg or otherwise enhanced though.

[Freakish]

I swear I thought the narandi head was rotting.

[TimTheToolmanTaylor]

next you know this guy is going to ToV and looting the corpses there because A/A alt #5 didn't get to it quick enough.

[Gumbo]

if the gms and guides were robots, sure. understand these are real people, in their 20s and 30s. if you were in their shoes, what would you do? tolerate that level of shitdom or ignore it?

I'm just saying that a Bard complained about loot stealing but was the Bard running the whole zone and grabbing 25 mobs to kite? How did the Bard actually know out of all the mobs they were kiting, it was one of theirs?

[kempofuryfist]

It's been said several times ITT already but yes, If you did not kill it, you do not have the right to loot it unless given permission by that player/group. The corpse timer is irrelevant.

Not Classic. Plenty of named mobs used to get ninjaed on live without bans.

[Springbock]

I was camping grimrot, being doing it for days on and off. I log in as usual to check, no one there, I know roughly he respawn time. 20 minutes later a player turns up, didn't get his name but just a few minutes later he spawns. I pull him to where I have my alt logged ( you can see where this is going) and kill him, the player is following me to where I kill him. So i just ignore him, log out and log into my alt, I get back just intime to see the corpse despawn. The rot time hadn't expired unless its alot faster than standard timer and the player (a druid) was no longer there, no one with his guild tag was in the zone. Should I have spoken to him and tell him not to loot the corpse, I'm assuming it's MQable too?