1 Hour FTE, Alt-tabbing, GM's watching Toes, Leashing, and the current state of P99

[Hyjalx]

It's been a long time since I've had the energy to write something in regards to keeping P99 as classic as possible, but with the recent introduction of the 1 hour FTE rule, alt-tabbing, GM's watching toes, and the leashing mechanic, I figured this would be as good a time as any. I solely am posting this on my own. And as some would say.... without logic or reason. =P

Let me first start by saying I greatly appreciate everything the Dev's have provided us over the years. You guys have done a fantastic job, and have brought back a lot of great memories for all of us. Many hours have been poured into making P99 a great EQ experience, and I'm sure I can speak on behalf of most of us.... THANK YOU!

I'll start off by stating the obvious: The 1 hour FTE rule and FTE in its current state is a failed experiment.

This rule was introduced to encourage casual guilds to compete for raid targets by giving 1 hour of prep time to engage raid targets. Although thoughtful, this was essentially a band-aid to a much bigger issue, and that's the current state of FTE. Neckbeards staring at walls (myself included) are also to blame, but as rules are made there will always be adjustments made to those rules, especially those rules that cannot be policed or sustained without extensive micromanaging.

This isn't a slight, but the reality of where our server stands. Policing toes on the FTE line isn't sustainable. Policing alt-tabbing isn't sustainable or even possible. Are we as a player base expected to believe alt-tabbing isn't still happening because nobody is posting videos of themselves doing it anymore? Are GM's going to watch toes forever? Will casual guilds even attempt to FTE anything outside of West ToV (which is essentially forgotten by A/A nowadays) against 20-30 neckbeards staring at a wall? The answer is no.

Judging by all the farewell and goodbye posts, and the rumblings in every other thread I have read recently, I feel I am fair to say this experiment has failed and needs adjusting.


I have played on P99 since the 3rd week this server was released. I have seen many rule changes, many GM's come and go, and many different variations of neckbearding, but one thing has remained constant; You can't change EQ to fit 1 persons ideology without ruining the game. And right now we are witnessing an unprecedented amount of effort to keep putting band-aids on a failed experiment. (ie. see GM's watching toes, alt-tabbing, and our most recent band-aid and non-classic game mechanic: leashing.

I understand the answers to these questions are not easily answered, but we as a community are not blind to the fact that these mechanic and rule changes are not part of classic Everquest. It's almost as if we have forgotten why this server was made to begin with.

With that said, we need to go back to our roots.

And that's classic Everquest.

During classic we had a very easily defined ruleset. Yes, poopsocking became an issue, but you had to clear to Nagafen or Vox, and overall the rules of engagement were clear.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.) No more than 1-2 trackers from a guild (or entity) in a zone for a raid target at any given time or you are disqualified. (ie. likes the planes). Welcome back Ranger trackers.

2.) Upon FTE, the raid target needs to either be pulled to camp immediately or dropped. (this will not eliminate alt-tabbing, but will lessen the possibility of a select few people guaranteeing targets for their guild by introducing variables such as load times, ranger trackers paying attention, and guild preparedness).

3.) Remove leashing mechanic (this is a non-classic mechanic that was only introduced to encourage ToV clears and to stop excessive training, which is as classic as it gets)

4.) Remove binds in ToV (not classic) and add appropriate roamers to LTK area.

5.) You hear the howl of Ancient Wyverns surround you. Increase the aggro radius of Ancient Wyverns at the North ToV door. (Okay, I might have made this one up, but good luck DA'ing to doubles or triples or Vulak solo)

6.) Finding new ways to get casual guilds involved in the raid scene. This is probably the most difficult part, but is obviously the reason we are in the situation we are in today.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thanks guys.

-Hyjal <Awakened>

[khanable]

Hey pal

Just wanted to say leashing is (unfortunately I guess) definitely classic. Lots of evidence was found to support this from even the early Kunark days.

[Hyjalx]

Sup man =) Yeah, I was a little unsure when leashing was introduced, but I think it might be the lesser of evils compared to the rest.

[Matalus]

no

[Jay F Kay]

Would it really kill you nerds to share? After 8 years of the same bullshit, maybe just try a month of being civil.

[Pokesan]

Would it really kill you nerds to share? After 8 years of the same bullshit, maybe just try a month of being civil.

that's cuck talk. real alphas like me put in the work to earn content(by which i mean staring at a door for 16 hours multiple times a week)

[Gimp]

The less I log in, the more I take a step back and realize how absolutely ridiculous p99 raiding is.

Agnarr looks fun though

[FatMice]

The less I log in, the more I take a step back and realize how absolutely ridiculous p99 raiding is.

quoted for truth!

[Freakish]

The less I log in, the more I take a step back and realize how absolutely ridiculous p99 raiding is.

Agnarr looks fun though

That's why you log in to do things you love.

[Gimp]

That's why you log in to do things you love.

Only so many people left to cyber on p99

[Rang]

Translation:

"Please casual raiders don't leave the server for better servers/games! Who will we lock out of content now so I can feel superior in real life despite the fact that I have wasted years of IRL time tracking pixelated dragons on a simulated server and live in my parents basement/section 8 housing?! We'll even give you ONE Trakanon for free!"

The neckbeards have made their bed on this server, and the damage done is already too great. Enjoy instance99 once the more casual players wake up and smell the poopsocks.

[Naethyn]

Oh how easy it is to blame the evil neck beards who have been doing this for 8+ years. The top end has extremely high turn over - new bodies enter the grinder each week. The guilds on this forum post kill lists to try and pull the new players, because that is how they compete. Want this madness to end? Fix the root cause, not the imaginary 8+ year neck beards who don't even exist.

[Rang]

How many years has Cazicatani been parked in plane of fear? Yeah your right, it's always different people at the top doing the racing/tracking (not talking about warm body churn).

[Culkasi]

Ultimately, with the staff chosing not too, there are two entities that can change (and save???) the P99 raid scene, and that is Awakened and Aftermath. As long as they have enough people that are willing to raid and kill as much as they are, and leaders willing to spend the time, no effective changes will happen I am afraid. This is not really bashing on AA, they are playing the game in the way that they enjoy, unfortunately its a very exclusive way of enjoying the content, but some will argue that is very classic.
For now, people like Nemce are making the smart choice, and if any of us other casuals had any sense we'd probably do the same - instead we are trying to find joy in what little we have here, because P99 is STILL, apart from a terrible terrible soul destroying raid scene, the best classic Everquest experience we can find.

[Comoc1]

Agnarr sounds like it's going to be great. The best guild on the server will get to kill 2x of everything weekly. Count me in.

[Lifebar]

The real problem with P99 is the Class R scumbags.

[Skew]

TLDR


beer
wank
poopsock
pictures
snark

thats what your competing with here. make it snappy.

[Mistle]

The incorrect assumption being made here is that the GMs *want* to make the endgame better. Sirken, the prototypical ref who has lost control of the game, has rightly figured that if he does nothing the problem will probably eventually solve itself, by forcing enough people to leave that the pressure is relieved somewhat. Less for him to do. Of course, the kind of people who will still be left will leave something to be desired...

For now, people like Nemce are making the smart choice, and if any of us other casuals had any sense we'd probably do the same - instead we are trying to find joy in what little we have here, because P99 is STILL, apart from a terrible terrible soul destroying raid scene, the best classic Everquest experience we can find.

It honestly isn't.

[indiscriminate_hater]

welfare pixels plz

[fan D]

if you raid and track and fte race on blue you are a fucking loser

[Victorio]

The 1 hour FTE lock has made the raid scene stupid. There was much more dynamism and skill when you had to insta-pull. Now it's more about the skills of a few runners than the skills of a whole guild.

[Rygar]

The 1 hour FTE lock has made the raid scene stupid. There was much more dynamism and skill when you had to insta-pull. Now it's more about the skills of a few runners than the skills of a whole guild.

How on earth can you really call that skill? Sending out a text to log in where you parked? Freaking joke man.

It's really about who is more obsessed about the game. If you want to argue skill, set caps on number of players and classes who can be present for a particular kill. Even that would need some policing as under geared guilds may get a few handicaps.

Just stop pretending pulling a boss solo to a zone in is skill, it's a short cut. The level of skill in this game is limited when it comes to raiding.

[Naethyn]

What makes EverQuest hard is the players in the game and not the environment. This was never about content being hard. It has always been about the other players making it hard.

[Tupakk]

What makes EverQuest hard is the players in the game and not the environment. This was never about content being hard. It has always been about the other players making it hard.

Prolly the only smart thing that has been said in this whole thread.

[Papa]

What makes EverQuest hard is the players in the game and not the environment. This was never about content being hard. It has always been about the other players making it hard.

behold! the post of a man with a sad/broken brain

[Pokesan]

behold! the post of a man with a sad/broken brain

don't sign your posts

[Tupakk]

Lol

don't sign your posts

[Dreenk317]

Just stop pretending pulling a boss solo to a zone in is skill, it's a short cut. The level of skill in this game is limited when it comes to raiding.

This.

[Ella`Ella]

The casuals this rule was made to help do not even compete anymore making a boring and stale raid scene. When casuals cried and said they wanted to clear to dragons and than proceeded to copy AM/AW's pull style when given the chance was the most hilarious thing ever, I think Sevalak has sat up for 2+ days before without CSG attempting a clear to him. :rolleyes:

I've said it for a long time; AM is not AW's enemy (or vice versa). The real enemy are the casuals with their pixel welfare mentality.

[fan D]

behold! the post of a man with a sad/broken brain

i can confirm this Naethyn guy is a retard with no brain

[Mead]

this place is falling apart

[AzzarTheGod]

tl;dr

[Bristlebaner]

I think there should be zero intervention on the part of staff. Make this one giant free for all. Then put in live cams so we can all watch the neckbeard destroy each other. I would pay a subscription every month to access those feeds.

[Rygar]

I would say FTE'ing a dragon and having 45 seconds to get a cleric chain, tank rotation, speedbump list, and a train-up ready before the dragon hits your camp takes a bit more skill than taking your sweet as time (1 hour) and clearing a few trash mobs before casually killing the dragon.

The casuals this rule was made to help do not even compete anymore making a boring and stale raid scene. When casuals cried and said they wanted to clear to dragons and than proceeded to copy AM/AW's pull style when given the chance was the most hilarious thing ever, I think Sevalak has sat up for 2+ days before without CSG attempting a clear to him. :rolleyes:

I only started playing in velious after the FTE race and 1 hour grace period was in place (or at least was raiding by then). So correct me if I'm wrong, weren't those instant pulls all in kunark on 32k hp mobs that died Hella fast?

I will concede that what you describe does take a well organized machine to pull off on velious era mobs which does take some skill. However, it still is trivial in a lot of ways. The longer the game is played, the more alts get made, toons are left perma camped at high value raid targets, wipes are easy to recover from since mob is engaged at zone line and no corpse summons needed, freaking mallet dumping to get agro, soulfire / reaper / blafestopper / wort pots...

I still believe the raid scene is about dedication, not skill. All the wall staring is ridiculous. You always cry that casuals want welfare pixels, we just don't ENJOY staring at walls for 16 hour Windows! Even for a 1 hour shift! It just isn't fun.

And about CSG not crawling during A/A suspension I was indeed disappointed about that. Even made a post on guild site asking for it, just on 1 mob. Something about being worried the mob may go to FFA or couldn't dedicate the resources or something. Agree whole heartedly we should have crawled and not hit the pixel codeine button and pull to zone line.

[Pezy]

We instant pulled Velious too. For Dozekar and Eashen, you literally had 30 seconds from when they spawned until they were in camp, whether it was prime time or 4am. KT would allow you about 90 seconds maybe. It's almost hard to fathom, with how lazy the current rules have mad everyone.

[Joyelle]

How many years has Cazicatani been parked in plane of fear? Yeah your right, it's always different people at the top doing the racing/tracking (not talking about warm body churn).

You couldn't have picked a worse example for this post, because Cazicatani is a tracking bot. He's been parked there a couple years, and at least 100 different people have probably logged him on to track over those few years.

[Naethyn]

And about CSG not crawling during A/A suspension I was indeed disappointed about that. Even made a post on guild site asking for it, just on 1 mob. Something about being worried the mob may go to FFA or couldn't dedicate the resources or something. Agree whole heartedly we should have crawled and not hit the pixel codeine button and pull to zone line.
I looked forward to watching someone stream the ToV crawl. CSG repeatedly claimed they wanted to experience the content the way it was developed. Hell, I was jealous of your opportunity. When I found out you guys didn't even do one clear for one dragon it was a huge disappointment. I doubt anyone around here will ever take that claim seriously again, and the damage it did will shape the server for years to come.

[Naethyn]

This. Sadly, there is just too much ill will between the two parties to realize / adjust to this.
For a bunch of people on blue it is about watching Detoxx lose/rage instead of pixels. Most of the top end would be in the same guild holding hands, bored, with a giant rotation if he has retired with Forsaken.

[fan D]

There is literally no one on the server, past or present, who has logged in or only regularly just to watch Detoxx get emotional.

Naethyn on the other hand, is top 3 total retards of our time

[Naethyn]

http://i.imgur.com/TSG1d4k.jpg

[Tupakk]

There is literally no one on the server, past or present, who has logged in or only regularly just to watch Detoxx get emotional.

Naethyn on the other hand, is top 3 total retards of our time

Clearly you havent been in their TS late at night lol. Its was a fucking roller coaster some nights.

Detox retoxing is a show in of itself.

[bspa0700]

The guild summit where Chest and CSG leadership sat at the table (like they had done a damn thing to earn a seat at that table) was a fucking joke. They NEVER competed. Not one time. All these ruleset changes to make it more palatable to compete -- and they showed up on the line like once. Ever.

Run up rules are dumb. They take entirely too much effort on behalf of the guild overall. We should go back to coth maging -- 2 mages per wing max. Leave some skill in it for the FTErs. Hopping out of Koi pond to run to Vulak or something is far more interesting than being cothed in on a wiz spamming flux staff with a TL box up. Turn off lazy aggro code in TOV and Kael. Why should the rules of this server that were meant to cater to casuals exist 1 more damn cycle, when they don't even show up to compete?

[Endonde]

Only so many people left to cyber on p99

I'll cyber you anytime.



I would say FTE'ing a dragon and having 45 seconds to get a cleric chain, tank rotation, speedbump list, and a train-up ready before the dragon hits your camp takes a bit more skill than taking your sweet as time (1 hour) and clearing a few trash mobs before casually killing the dragon.


I don't think this is true, any half trained monkey could do this shit, you just need a bunch of half trained monkeys to log on at a moments notice, and that is the true difference between the hardcore and casual playerbase. No normal person wants to spend their week hovering within a 30 second walk of their PC just so they can log on and kill Dozekar for the 50th time.

[Pokesan]

http://i.imgur.com/TSG1d4k.jpg

nice win.

[fan D]

Clearly you havent been in their TS late at night lol. Its was a fucking roller coaster some nights.

Detox retoxing is a show in of itself.

i've been hanging out detoxx in person for years, we went to a giants game last year

[Metalopolis]

Oh boy....remember all the "Velious will fix the raid scene" talking points?

Here we are 19 months later and even the old Kunark dragons are still being "contested;" let alone things like VP. Fuck....even the PLANE OF HATE MINIs are being permafarmed.

Now I was in BDA for awhile up until they left P99 and let's be honest here: there's only so many nights you can clear VP and farm HoT armor. Eventually people just stop showing up. Hell the only reason BDA lasted as long as it did was because of the community of players in the guild and the extremely laid-back style of BDA raiding.

[Papa]

The guild summit where Chest and CSG leadership sat at the table (like they had done a damn thing to earn a seat at that table) was a fucking joke. They NEVER competed. Not one time. All these ruleset changes to make it more palatable to compete -- and they showed up on the line like once. Ever.

Run up rules are dumb. They take entirely too much effort on behalf of the guild overall. We should go back to coth maging -- 2 mages per wing max. Leave some skill in it for the FTErs. Hopping out of Koi pond to run to Vulak or something is far more interesting than being cothed in on a wiz spamming flux staff with a TL box up. Turn off lazy aggro code in TOV and Kael. Why should the rules of this server that were meant to cater to casuals exist 1 more damn cycle, when they don't even show up to compete?

lol look at this a/a koolaid drinker blaming the casuals somehow for the shitty state of the p99 raid scene

LOL JUST LOL

[Tupakk]

i've been hanging out detoxx in person for years, we went to a giants game last year

Maybe he shows off for the nerd minions and keeps it sups casual with you than.

[Rygar]

I don't think this is true, any half trained monkey could do this shit, you just need a bunch of half trained monkeys to log on at a moments notice, and that is the true difference between the hardcore and casual playerbase. No normal person wants to spend their week hovering within a 30 second walk of their PC just so they can log on and kill Dozekar for the 50th time.

This was precisely my point, it does take some skill, but in the end it really is about who is more dedicated / obsessed. I hear people from A / A in this thread saying turnover is high, people burn out, new hungry mouths take their place. Shouldn't you change then?

I think that is the OPs point as well about FTE being a failure, it just created more socking. Not a lot of suggestions in this thread to fix that. If I had to suggest anything it would be this:

Guilds could only drop a single raid target every 5 hours. This includes old world dragons, vp, velious, everything. Once you kill a target you are locked out. This would cause certain guilds to focus on higher priority targets that are in window and eliminate the need for tracking 24/7.

It would even open up high end scene to cooperation as vulak would need all dragons cleared to drop. I think you will see more 'trash raid' mobs open for casuals this way without constant socking. Guilds like kittens could get some nice stuff while A/As of the world probably lock down the big mobs.

I'm sure some exceptions can be made on certain mobs like vindi / wuoshi and statue / AoW. Hell, even make it so fear golems are one a piece. I think you will see a lot more cooperation this way.

If you hate this idea out there are flaws, please make some suggestions.

[Dreenk317]

You don't want poopsocking.

Right now Azure Gard has 7 people in Kael staring at a wall.

No one is stopping you doing a self imposed 5hr lockout to set the standard, and ask the rest do. Instead you immediately become what you don't like.

If I'm not mistaken, AG has a policy where, if they are raiding, and killing there way to target. And they train someone, they stop immediately, Rez the people they trained, and then resume. I have personally witnessed this cost them multiple FTE's. Because other guilds will leapfrog past them and snag the pull.

This is an example of a guild doing the right thing. And other guilds taking advantage of it. That's how this server works, everyone is cutthroat and ruthless, with a few exceptions.

So why self impose a lockout in the hopes that other guilds will follow suit when it has been proven time and time again, that unless sirken says so, no one will listen.

[Legday]

Current p99 ruleset and enforcement of ruleset:

Diherrea

In a dumpster

On a hot day

[Rygar]

You don't want poopsocking.

Right now Azure Gard has 7 people in Kael staring at a wall.

No one is stopping you doing a self imposed 5hr lockout to set the standard, and ask the rest do. Instead you immediately become what you don't like.

Why are you taking comments so literally? We hate poopsocking doesn't mean 100% of the members, there are some willing to do it. As a whole, the majority will not commit to it. Like when people here are saying, "the casuals aren't competing", I can throw out dates of FTEs scored or I can read between the lines and see they mean vast majority of the time we aren't on the line.

And about us self imposing a 5hr lock out as an example? Laughable really, is equivalent of aftermath starting at very back wall of ToV zone in to race. You think Awakened is going to start at the same area or start at the agreed upon starting line? Some things need to be agreed to first before being put into action.

Regardless, CSG has set the example of negotiating rotations and mob splitting during suspensions to ease the racing madness more times than I can count... Not seeing a whole lot of that from anyone else at the top. Sure there is tunare agreement, but mark my words that is going to fall apart once you get more players in the rotation (just like VP) because the top dogs won't want to wait 2 months for one shot at loot.

[Mistle]

Any AG poopsocking are probably playing on takp while they do it. Smart!

[Dreenk317]

Any AG poopsocking are probably playing on takp while they do it. Smart!

I give it a week till cross-server boxing is petitioned and against the rules :p

[Bones]

what is "alt-tabbing" anyways? Is it a reference to dual boxing?

[Dreenk317]

what is "alt-tabbing" anyways? Is it a reference to dual boxing?

Alt tab jumping. It's the practice of hitting jump, then clicking out of your EQ window to massively drop your frame rate instantly, allowing your character to jump further than should be possible. Since player characters move faster while airborne from the jump. Competent alt tab jumpers will gain an advantage in foot races against those that just strafe run or run normally.

At least I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

[Lowako]

what is "alt-tabbing" anyways? Is it a reference to dual boxing?

No. If anyone were to dual box on this server they'd have to use 2 PCs and VPN for minimal risk. "Alt-tabbing" refers to alt-tab jumping. I explained the mechanics of it in a previous post, as well as a few other Titanium client oddities. I bolded the most relevant bit.

Not speed-hacking, just manipulating frame rates. Basically a few things are determined by your frame rate in this game, most notably levitate mechanics, mouse-turn speed, how high you jump out of water, and fall speed. The higher your FPS, the slower you fall, slower you turn, and the slower you lose height while levitating. When you jump, you get a boost straight ahead of your character. AFAIK, you also lose forward speed the longer you are airborne. When you alt-tab out of the game, your FPS in the client drops pretty low.

The fabled alt-tab jump works by jumping to gain forward speed, alt tab out while airborne to fall faster to minimize de-acceleration, then tab back in before you land to continue running at full speed.

You can also manipulate your frame rate to prevent fall damage (if you click levitate while airborne at around 100fps, you can actually get stuck in the air for a bit), as well as being able to stay levitated very high in the air without falling much. Frame-rate manipulation can be used to climb walls while levitating through cleverly timed alt tabs.

I think most of the above is common knowledge to people who have played on various titanium or pre-titanium EQ clients though.

[Bones]

Ok that makes sense thanks for clearing that up. First time I had seen the term used in regards to FTE racing. I did know about it being used for wall climbing and have done that myself way back in the day to backdoor to Lady Vox in permafrost.

[skarlorn]

wow. all this upset just because Auld Lang Syne has got a chance to kill some dragons.




















didn't read thread (except for nice cucumbers post under OP)

[AzzarTheGod]

Auld Lang Syne






Only thing worth reading in this thread

[bspa0700]

lol look at this a/a koolaid drinker blaming the casuals somehow for the shitty state of the p99 raid scene

LOL JUST LOL

I lived it. I put in silly tracking/racing hours for quite a long time. Among the highest in my guild. This isn't some koolaid coming from a name you don't know.

The guilds I mentioned simply didn't show up.

Oh they'd show up on the forums. They talk like they compete, here. They want a voice at raid rules discussions. But they don't show up.

[Fingurs]

Instancing is lame.

Vanguard perfected this with Lockout timers.

The only thing that was lame about Classic was the blocking of content.

Maybe a feature the staff is working on? But who knows. Some people love the oppression heh.

[Lhancelot]

Alt tab jumping. It's the practice of hitting jump, then clicking out of your EQ window to massively drop your frame rate instantly, allowing your character to jump further than should be possible. Since player characters move faster while airborne from the jump. Competent alt tab jumpers will gain an advantage in foot races against those that just strafe run or run normally.

At least I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Is there no limit to what these manchildren will do to gain an advantage over others to get the pixels? My god, how pathetic one must be to figure out shit like this.

[AzzarTheGod]

Vanguard perfected this with Lockout timers.
.

Unfortunately they had people who cared about designing a solution to instances while maintaining an open world.

Good news? Not entirely free to speak on it but I believe the VG emu will eventually be quite operational in another years time it could hit beta.

[Mythanor]

Unfortunately they had people who cared about designing a solution to instances while maintaining an open world.

Good news? Not entirely free to speak on it but I believe the VG emu will eventually be quite operational in another years time it could hit beta.

[Lagaidh]

this place is falling apart

Hah.

That ship sailed at least two years ago. Threads like this one simply prove the amount of mental illness present in our community.

Seriously, how in the blue fuck can adults act like this, look themselves in the mirror and say, "Tsk! Doin' good man! Doin' gooood."

[LostCause]

still don't get were people keep saying velious been ouf ro 2 years or longer...


came out the start aug 2015 2 years would be aug 2017

[Yasi]

Just read 8 pages. Trying to summarize most of the Posts:

Back in the day me was hardcore as shit.

[Papa]

still don't get were people keep saying velious been ouf ro 2 years or longer...


came out the start aug 2015 2 years would be aug 2017

most people dont get hung up on the specific semantics of a p meaningless part of the narrative

[dafier]

exact still means exact, no?

[Pokesan]

most people dont get hung up on the specific semantics of a p meaningless part of the narrative

maner would love to argue with you about this