jboots MQ = a waste of money?

[Dantes]

Why not just buy SOW potions?

The other day I was debating on whether or not jboots are actually worth it. All of this time spent camping or waiting for the camp to open, or 6k for MQ. They're slower than SOW, yes? A 10 dose SOW potion costs 100pp. So you're paying 10pp per dose. So, buying an MQ costs 6k... which would also buy you 600 SOW potion doses. So if SOW lasts 30 minutes, that's 300 hours of SOW for 6000pp.

And you only need SOW when you are moving, not when you are sitting on your butt at a camp. I might only travel about 20% of my /played time. So, 6k worth of SOW potions should actually last me 1500 hours played. This is more than 62 days played. For the average person's scheduled weekly play that's 2 years of this game, assuming 20 hours a week. If you are talking about 10 hours a week, double that to 4 years. It takes 4 years for those jboots to be worth the cost if you play just 10 hours a week.

Do you really need jboots? Support your local Shaman.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

You really need Jboots.

[hedbonker]

Jboots work indoors, don't they (as opposed to sow pots)?

[Droodler]

You really need Jboots.

JBoots. By DetroitVeltetSmooth. Get yours or get left behind (R)

[Gandite]

Jboots work indoors, don't they (as opposed to sow pots)?

No.

[Shiftin]

jboots are an instaclick buff. damn near every boss dispells. tons of actual mobs dispell. they only work in outdoor zones but Hate, Fear, and all kunark dragons + most epic fights except trak are outdoors.

you don't have to grab a new set of jboots out of your bag to click it every time your jboots run out.

I can't imagine how many potions i'd go through in a 10-12 hour sky raid between timers wearing off and deaths.

i would hate myself in the face thinking about spending cash every single time i had to click my jboots, luckily i don't.

jboots are an absolutely essential piece of equipment 45+, especially if you're raiding. sorry.

[Messianic]

jboots are an instaclick buff. damn near every boss dispells. tons of actual mobs dispell. they only work in outdoor zones but Hate, Fear, and all kunark dragons + most epic fights except trak are outdoors.

you don't have to grab a new set of jboots out of your bag to click it every time your jboots run out.

I can't imagine how many potions i'd go through in a 10-12 hour sky raid between timers wearing off and deaths.

i would hate myself in the face thinking about spending cash every single time i had to click my jboots, luckily i don't.

jboots are an absolutely essential piece of equipment 45+, especially if you're raiding. sorry.

True, but they're really not necessary up to that point. If you've got the spare money, great - if your total worth is < 10k, it's likely not worth it.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

JBoots. By DetroitVeltetSmooth. Get yours or get left behind (R)

Writing that down.... oh wait its copyrighted.

[Shiftin]

True, but they're really not necessary up to that point. If you've got the spare money, great - if your total worth is < 10k, it's likely not worth it.

Honestly as a melee without gate, if your net worth is 6,001 pp and a MQ costs 6,000 PP, i'd snap them up in a second. Why spend $1k on sow potions when you're inevitably going to buy them anyway? Now you've spent $7k on being faster with the same result.

Kind of irrelevant though, right? Do any sub 45 mains legitimately have thousands of plat?

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

I will now step aside for the inevitable "look how much plat i have and im not 45" posts forthcoming.

[Messianic]

Honestly as a melee without gate, if your net worth is 6,001 pp and a MQ costs 6,000 PP, i'd snap them up in a second. Why spend $1k on sow potions when you're inevitably going to buy them anyway? Now you've spent $7k on being faster with the same result.

Kind of irrelevant though, right? Do any sub 45 mains legitimately have thousands of plat?

My highest character is 35 and my net worth is 17k =)

Part of my personal reasoning is I will eventually spend time on Seafury island, so I expect to camp AC in the course of leveling...

[Ihealyou]

I had about 1k in the bank until around level 48. :(

[Darkforge]

Jboot = instant. Having an instant click sow is always nice. It is only 8% or around there slower than sow so you will not really notice. Also another advantage of haveing them is put your jboots buff up last so if you fight a mob / person that diapells they get your instant cast jboots buff that u can put back up and not your cleric buff or clerity lol. Just my two cents. Do what u want thougth. I think they are worth it. Now don't get me wrong even with jboots I always like to get my sow lol.

[guineapig]

Sow potions are most definitely a legitimate alternative. You will only ever use them if you are outdoors and traveling alone. When you are in a group (as melee usually are) chances are you have access to sow in your group.

Of course anyone who has spent 8+ hours camping AC or their entire savings on a pair of J-boots is going to poo-poo on your logic but your logic is sound.

I don't recall the last time a melee was expected to junk buff themselves on a raid, and against Naggy and Vox you can't use j-boots anyway. :)

[redghosthunter]

We still love ya Dantes... But ya. Boots. Pots are a nice novelty item. Gate pots really should be your push.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Sow potions taste like wolf piss.

[Droodler]

Sow potions taste like wolf piss.

I think this should be your new motto.

Buy JBoots MQ. Because SoW potions taste like wolf piss (TM)

[Dantes]

Bullshit. I had jboots on live and they never did anything except for grant me MEDIOCRE run speed that barely outran anything. After Kunark release, it was even worse. The fucking things were practically useless.

*downs a sow potion*

IT GIVES YOU WINGS!

Now if only they made Deadman Floating Potions, I'd be all over that.

[guineapig]

Bullshit. I had jboots on live and they never did anything except for grant me MEDIOCRE run speed that barely outran anything. After Kunark release, it was even worse. The fucking things were practically useless.


Interesting point... are j-boots faster on this server than they should be?

I always thought it was a set run speed percentage (35% I think). If the run speed is scaling like SoW then it's not working the way it should.

Blood of the Wolf potions work like this:
Increase Movement by 34% (L9) to 55% (L50)

In other words, SoW potions are up to 20% faster than J-boots... or at least they should be.

[Droodler]

Blood of the Wolf potions work like this:
Increase Movement by 34% (L9) to 55% (L50)


What's your source on this?

[guineapig]

What's your source on this?

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=278

versus:

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=874

It's always been like this...

[Droodler]

I've never noticed player level affecting SoW run speed on P99. I can't remember if this was true on Live back in the early days.

Duration I have noticed changing.

Has anyone tested this on P99?

[Dantes]

I don't know if they are too fast here, but I just remember not being able to outrun anything Kunark had to offer when I was using my jboots back in the day. This is part of the reason why I haven't tried to get any. The difference between the speed of SOW was definitely noticeable way back when. Of course, on this server it might even be worse because the mobs have such a large range on their ability to hit you. 20% may cost you a death.

[Badmartigan]

JBoots are a must have if you are a soloer or a raider..

Theres no reason not to have them unless you are lazy.. most high end guilds REQUIRE having jboots/clicky

[Werlop]

If you were lucky enough to get the rare drops off of kedge/lguk/solb, win a greed roll in a freeti group, etc. then getting together 5-6k for a jboots mq is believable. Obviously some classes (necro, mage anyone?) will have a much easier time than others (pure melee), but it is not impossible.

Back to the OP's point: yes, sow potions are more effective if you know that you will not need the clicky (I don't remember dealing with dispells heavily until I got to raid level).
However, clickies are invaluable in raids for every class and it is therefore well worth the investment to obtain it early if you have the cash AND plan on raiding.
To raiders (the majority of the people who can afford jboots), the fact that it is a clicky is the selling point. The fact that that clicky is a speed mod is a bonus (an amazing bonus that everyone loves, but still a bonus).

[Omnimorph]

I had about 40-50k when i was level 34... but then i spent ALL my time making jewellery. I then camped Jboots, and bought 6 tink bags, gebs and an smr XD

Sow potions are a pain to carry around. Jboots are easy enough.

[karsten]

plus they are super important in pvp

[Thetruth]

The truth is,

This is a valuable purchase of computer game goods. This could be used for running quickly. This might lead to some truth.

[JayDee]

plus they are super important in pvp

And we all know how great you were at pvp

lolololololololol

[karsten]

hackers gonna hack, is my response to that. Also that I was part of the 18 man test of tactics from vallon zek back when people hadnt figured out how to black screens out using MQ

[Bubbles]

lol @ sow potions tasting like wolf piss.

Jboots are most likely a touch or two faster than they were back in the day.. But considering how much faster the MOBs are than they were on live, i'd say it's pretty balanced.

[azeth]

Speaking of Jboots - stop camping AC in sro, it's not going to happen. just gain 2-3 levels to get your 39 spells and head to OOT.

end.

Your welcome.

[Messianic]

I've never noticed player level affecting SoW run speed on P99. I can't remember if this was true on Live back in the early days.

Duration I have noticed changing.

Has anyone tested this on P99?

I definitely notice that i'm faster when a level 50 person sows me than when a level 9 shaman or 14 druid sows me...

[Omnimorph]

Given the ample amount of people willing to camp jboots and sell them for 6k, i'd rather just pay for them i think. I could make 6k faster than i could camp them so...

[Versus]

Lvl 35 - ~1kp. Such is the life of a monk.

That being said. Just because you are getting Jboots doesn't mean you don't need SoW. 1) It's a click buff, like many have said. 2) For the times you DON'T have access to SoW, it could be a life saver. 3) As a puller for the group, I want to cry when I don't have a SoW, and JBoots will solve this issue.


Long story short. If you have 6k or the time, it's well worth it. I plan on camping for mine however, since 5-6k is way outta my league atm.

[azeth]

Like Shiftin identifed above, Kunark outdoor dragons are a perfect opportunity to flex your insta cast Jboots/Spyglass.

Almost worth it solely for that reason.

[Dr4z3r]

As a Bard, all I have to say on the subject is "lol".

[Alkorin]

1. SoW potions take time to cast. Warriors (among other melee classes) can't channel. Jboots are instant. If you're running for your life and you aren't SoWed, jboots will save your face.

2. You can still outrun most mobs with jboots.

3. Instant clickies are useful for all manner of outdoor dispelling fights, as noted above.

And if I can raise 5-6k as a warrior, you can do it too. Takes time, but you're playing anyway, right? Go farm spectres for a bit. Go farm a Ghoulbane and sell it. All of these things add up.

[korrowan]

Given the ample amount of people willing to camp jboots and sell them for 6k, i'd rather just pay for them i think. I could make 6k faster than i could camp them so...

I have camped 1 pair for myself and 3 other pairs and I have yet to spend more than 6 hours there...hell second and third one took me 2 and 1 hours respectively.

[guineapig]

jboots are an instaclick buff. damn near every boss dispells. tons of actual mobs dispell. they only work in outdoor zones but Hate, Fear, and all kunark dragons + most epic fights except trak are outdoors.


When was the last time you were on a raid with zero druids, shaman, rangers, bards? When was the last time you needed a run speed buff AFTER being dispelled by these mobs? These targets, once engaged drop really fast


you don't have to grab a new set of jboots out of your bag to click it every time your jboots run out.

Very true, but does not make them a must, just convenient. There is a difference.


I can't imagine how many potions i'd go through in a 10-12 hour sky raid between timers wearing off and deaths.

Again, when was the last time you were on a raid with zero druids or rangers? I'm pretty sure the druids and rangers have plenty of time and mana to sow you on a raid. That being said my guess is you would use your potion zero times.


i would hate myself in the face thinking about spending cash every single time i had to click my jboots, luckily i don't.

The OP already did the math. Most of your examples of clicking j-boots are times when you actually had sow available which is superior run speed by 20%


jboots are an absolutely essential piece of equipment 45+, especially if you're raiding. sorry.

Completely disagree 100%. If you were going to say anything at all about being solo then you might have a leg to stand on but your examples actually do more to prove that j-boots are not essential on raids.

I never had j-boots on live or on this server and I have never died on a raid due to not having them.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

I wasnt gonna post this but ... if the "night" timeframe is crack of 9pm to crack of 7am, and the ph spawn timer is 30m40s, and an hour in game is 3m, THEN - is it not the case that you can only get one chance per 72 rl minutes to get an ac? and with a 10% spawn rate that works out to 12 hour average camp. The 3 ac i killed popped around 9pm, never got one to pop during the 7am hour. People seem to think they can get two chances, but that seems wrong. Thoughts or anecdotes? this is obv the sro ac im talking about.

[guineapig]

Well anyway, the OP is correct in the sense that you don't NEED them. Are they nice to have if you can afford them or camp them for yourself? Sure they are! But they are not essential.

Potions take 4 seconds to cast but are cheaper and 20% faster. Both are useless indoors. Investing in 10 dose sow potions are a perfectly viable substitute.

Yes, there are a few instances where having the insta-click of j-boots will save you but these situations are much rarer than people let on.

In summary:

J-boots = great tool
sow potions = perfect economical substitute for most situations.

[moklianne]

Jboots should pay for themselves easily by the time you quit. Remember, P1999 is stopping expansion rollout after Velious. AA's (run speed in particular) get introduced in Luclin. Run speed AA's (in Luclin) get you up to 30% speed increase, while jboots are 35%, IIRC.

So, if you are not class that can cast a runspeed spell/song, it may be worth it in the long run.

[Shiftin]

When was the last time you were on a raid with zero druids, shaman, rangers, bards? When was the last time you needed a run speed buff AFTER being dispelled by these mobs? These targets, once engaged drop really fast


The first part is completely irrelevant, but probably half our raids have no rangers and most have at tops 2 druids, who are usually blasted on mana doing spot heals / SLN etc. Shaman have 5+ other buffs they're constantly casting + debuffing. I still get SoW when i'm dragging bodies because it's actually a material difference in speed then.

As to how often i get dispelled and reclick jboots it's probably 5x during an inny kill dealing with the Gflux/dispell. If i don't, i lose another buff and if that buff is my lev cloak that gets dispelled next, i'm kinda SOL.


Very true, but does not make them a must, just convenient. There is a difference.
I'm pretty sure a huge chunk of the economy is based on convenience to some degree.



Again, when was the last time you were on a raid with zero druids or rangers? I'm pretty sure the druids and rangers have plenty of time and mana to sow you on a raid. That being said my guess is you would use your potion zero times.

I feel like i covered this above, but one less buff that has to be cast on 40 people in sky after every encounter / wear off / succor is time well saved. There are still times sow is important and i'm not discounting the utility of potions completely, but you're acting like jboots server no purpose.



The OP already did the math. Most of your examples of clicking j-boots are times when you actually had sow available which is superior run speed by 20%

Completely disagree 100%. If you were going to say anything at all about being solo then you might have a leg to stand on but your examples actually do more to prove that j-boots are not essential on raids.

I never had j-boots on live or on this server and I have never died on a raid due to not having them.

Probably 80%+ of the time i'm logged in on shiftin i'm raiding. In the last few months i think i could count of how many mobs have been won or lost between DA and IB by literally mere seconds. There is a reason the successful raiding guilds require them and to argue that casted sow or potions are just as effective while admitting they are not quite as efficient or convenient in every circumstance is a massive contradition. If you want to win, you need to have them. That's my definition of essential.

For me, and people like me, jboots are essential. For lots of other people, they are an awesome convenience which can be supplemented by casted or potion sow.

[Extunarian]

When I started my chanter, I invested around 375pp to make 6x 10 shot sow potions. Now at level 30 I still have ~25 shots left.

For simply leveling up a class that can't sow itself, I don't think you can do much better.

[guineapig]

Not going to continue the argument but I have to say that your having to redo j-boots on an Inny kill is a super weak example.

And Having to keep SoW on 40+ people on a sky raid is also weak. Where exactly does everybody need to run to constantly?

Even if you only log on to raid, and you logged off with a fresh SoW, every old world raid target in the game is dead before the 36 minute duration of that sow has elapsed (with the exception of CT).

Sorry, I'm calling it as I see it. Call it a necessity if you want to but it is in fact a convenience and when speed is actually of the utmost importance then it's an inferior buff to SoW.

I remember a debate on these forums way back when somebody tried to convince me that "if you don't have a manastone then you don't care about being good". I will honestly say that in my opinion the j-boot argument being put forth has less merit than the manastone argument did.