Warrior or Shadow Knight?

[fischsemmel]

For any of you who have the inclination, please help me figure out which I should play!

I'm feeling right now like I'd rather play a warrior... but please don't reply with "well then you should play your warrior." After all, a week ago I "felt" like playing a rogue... and now I have quite a dislike for him.


1. The character will never be played solo.
2. The vast majority of its playtime will be duo with a shaman.
3. Once in a while the two of us might get into a full group.
4. I will almost certainly never raid with the character.
5. I have a 50 necro to farm gear/plat for my warrior.


It seems to me, being uneducated in the ways of both SKs and warriors alike, that SKs have a lot of tools that allow them to solo decently (as well as any melee can really solo): lifetaps, fearkite potential, invis and ivu, and feign death. But I will never be solo.

Warriors end up with higher skill caps (off, def, weapons, dodge, parry, etc.) right? Or is that only once Kunark raises stat caps? Plus warriors have berserk, have disciplines, and can choose to dual wield or 2h or sword+board.


I can't decide :confused:

[azeth]

2. The vast majority of its playtime will be duo with a shaman.


Exclusively based on that point I'd roll an SK. Between lifetaps, slows, FD pulling and Torpor you pretty much win.

[fischsemmel]

Just realized in number 5 I said "for my warrior" instead of "for my new character" or "for my SK/warrior."

Wonder if it's a sign.

[fischsemmel]

Exclusively based on that point I'd roll an SK. Between lifetaps, slows, FD pulling and Torpor you pretty much win.

Somewhat-crappy lifetaps and FD pulling are more valuable than better skill caps, berserk, disciplines, and more weapons options?

[azeth]

Somewhat-crappy lifetaps and FD pulling are more valuable than better skill caps, berserk, disciplines, and more weapons options?

1. "better skill caps" <- What does this have to do with anything? Doing damage in a SK or War / Sham duo has no baring on whether or not you win or lose.

2. berserk? With a shaman healing you exclusively you had better hope you're not relying on running low HP. Not to mention Shaman heals are incredibly inefficient except for Torpor which negates your damage dealing ability anyways.

3. Disciplines - useful, but for warriors their pretty much designed for raid situations or at least not at all attune to duoing with a shaman.

4. More weapon choices - true, but again no baring on whether or not you can effectively duo with a shaman.

5. Since when are SK life taps crappy? Torpor + life tap on any non-Int caster type mob is a legit win button.


It sounds like you've already made up your mind, but I'm not exactly breaking the story here when I say the best melee/healer duo is Monk/Shaman followed extremely closely by Sk/Shaman.

Also, I'm interested to know how you plan to break camps without Lull or FD? I suppose you could root, but doesn't sound very efficient.

[fischsemmel]

1. "better skill caps" <- What does this have to do with anything? Doing damage in a SK or War / Sham duo has no baring on whether or not you win or lose.

2. berserk? With a shaman healing you exclusively you had better hope you're not relying on running low HP. Not to mention Shaman heals are incredibly inefficient except for Torpor which negates your damage dealing ability anyways.

3. Disciplines - useful, but for warriors their pretty much designed for raid situations or at least not at all attune to duoing with a shaman.

4. More weapon choices - true, but again no baring on whether or not you can effectively duo with a shaman.

5. Since when are SK life taps crappy? Torpor + life tap on any non-Int caster type mob is a legit win button.


It sounds like you've already made up your mind, but I'm not exactly breaking the story here when I say the best melee/healer duo is Monk/Shaman followed extremely closely by Sk/Shaman.

Also, I'm interested to know how you plan to break camps without Lull or FD? I suppose you could root, but doesn't sound very efficient.


Remember I came here asking for advice because I didn't know the answers to these things myself, and that I specifically mentioned that I knew little about SKs and warriors right off the bat. Given that, I would be better served with a post explaining why things work in a given way (such as "Warriors do more damage than shadowknights, sure, but because of X, Y, and Z, that doesn't actually make them work better when paired with a shaman") rather than asking me what more damage has to do with killing things better.

DERRRR, what was I thinking, eh? Imagine that, someone who is self-professed to not know the details of a class, going and thinking that doing more damage is a good thing when it comes to killing stuff.


I haven't already made up my mind, I just don't fall all over myself to let advice from others make up my mind for me, especially if it doesn't tell me WHY something is true rather just that it is.

[fischsemmel]

I'll try to be more specific.

1. "better skill caps" <- What does this have to do with anything? Doing damage in a SK or War / Sham duo has no baring on whether or not you win or lose.

Why is this the case?

Also, higher defense, parry, dodge, riposte, and disarm would help a warrior take less damage than a SK, right? Is this difference truly entirely insignificant?


2. berserk? With a shaman healing you exclusively you had better hope you're not relying on running low HP.

Why?


Not to mention Shaman heals are incredibly inefficient except for Torpor which negates your damage dealing ability anyways.

Incredibly efficient compared to what? Complete heal? What ISN'T? Also, so what? Slow + chloro + less-than-efficient heals seems == to efficient heals without slow or chloro to me. Is it? Is it not?


3. Disciplines - useful, but for warriors their pretty much designed for raid situations or at least not at all attune to duoing with a shaman.

Fair enough. I know disciplines tend to have pretty long CDs, also, so wasn't really thinking they'd be a staple of my play... more like oh-shit buttons, or something to assist in breaking a camp. Do they not work in these ways at least passably?


4. More weapon choices - true, but again no baring on whether or not you can effectively duo with a shaman.

As with #1, why is more damage not a factor in the effectiveness of a SK/war+sham duo? Seems pretty darn unintuitive to me.


5. Since when are SK life taps crappy?

I don't know, remember? We aren't in law school. Enough with the socratic method, eh? It makes sense for someone who doesn't know about SKs to assume that lifetaps a necro would have gotten 20 levels earlier, which are drawing on a smaller mana pool to replenish a larger HP pool that is being decreased more rapidly... are crappy.


Torpor + life tap on any non-Int caster type mob is a legit win button.

Explain it to me please. This whole...
1. Big healing
2. Little healing coupled with little damage
3. ???
4. THINGS DIE!!!

... thing doesn't really do it for me.


Also, I'm interested to know how you plan to break camps without Lull or FD? I suppose you could root, but doesn't sound very efficient.

I don't know, again. Seems like root + pet + slows + disc + blind would make for a decent way to break small camps to me. Would it not work?

[azeth]

All right man, good luck.

[fischsemmel]

I'm not trying to be a dick, just like I said, I'm not the sort of person who just believes something because someone says it's true. And even if I were, I still like knowing the why and how of things.

[fischsemmel]

All right man, good luck.

Np. Sorry you couldn't help answer some questions before getting annoyed that I'm not a lemming. :(

[Thetruth]

I'm not trying to be a dick, just like I said, I'm not the sort of person who just believes something because someone says it's true. And even if I were, I still like knowing the why and how of things.

The truth says,

You should believe me for I am The truth!

[azeth]

Yea man, I clearly was the one who got annoyed here. Jesus christ.. I don't really feel obligated to defend myself here, but why don't you take a look at how much I typed solely to attempt to help you answer the question, then come back to me and say "sorry you couldn't help"

How about, "sorry I'm incapable of learning"
"

[fischsemmel]

Yea man, I clearly was the one who got annoyed here.

It seemed to me that your "Np, good luck, I'm done with this thread"-ish post was you being annoyed with me. If you weren't, then my bad.


Jesus christ.. I don't really feel obligated to defend myself here, but why don't you take a look at how much I typed solely to attempt to help you answer the question, then come back to me and say "sorry you couldn't help"

Again, I got the impression after you wished me good luck that you were done trying to help me. Prove me wrong! :p


How about, "sorry I'm incapable of learning"

Hey, I already told you I'm not interested in the socratic method. When I said something like "Warriors do more damage and that's good, right?" you replied with something like "Why would doing more damage matter in a duo with a shaman?"

Just how exactly am I going to learn anything from that?



How's this analogy for fun?

A man is dying of thirst, so he asks another man, "If I travel east, I'll find an oasis, right?"
The second man replies, "What good would water be?"
The man dying of thirst says, "Well, I figured I could drink some to avoid death by dehydration."
The second man replies, "Cool bro. Good luck."

[Azimon]

I'd choose a sk simply because having versatility is more fun than just auto attacking and using "kick" every now and then. You already stated that you will not be raiding, and an sk can easily tank anything outside raids, and also gain access to camp spots a warrior shaman duo could not (lguk, invis vs undead, fd to break camps, harmtouch for nameds, and snaring mobs to keep them from running off.) The "taking less damage as a warrior" argument is totally invalid since both sk/shaman and warrior/shaman will never have any downtime once the shaman starts to combine cannibalize with chloroplast and torpor.

[Extunarian]

wow, fischsemmel...between this post and the FBSS rarity post its pretty obvious that you come here posting 'questions' but really only want to have your opinions validated. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzdWPwVTWsI

[fischsemmel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzdWPwVTWsI

Yeah, I knew it was only a matter of time before other people who were upset that I'm not a lemming showed up.

[fischsemmel]

I'd choose a sk simply because having versatility is more fun than just auto attacking and using "kick" every now and then. You already stated that you will not be raiding, and an sk can easily tank anything outside raids, and also gain access to camp spots a warrior shaman duo could not (lguk, invis vs undead, fd to break camps, harmtouch for nameds, and snaring mobs to keep them from running off.) The "taking less damage as a warrior" argument is totally invalid since both sk/shaman and warrior/shaman will never have any downtime once the shaman starts to combine cannibalize with chloroplast and torpor.

Woot. How's and why's!

[Crenshinabon]

Warrior might be better for min/maxing...... but you said yourself you will not raid much.
SK is more fun, hands down.
This game is only 3/4 the fun with no mana bar.

Believe me, go Shadowknight if you are doing small group content.
FeignDeath alone is like 100% reason in small group to go SK.
You will be 100x better puller not to mention have a small arsenal of fun spells to use.

[Estu]

Pulling is a legit concern. Shamen are bad at pulling; they can root, but that often gets resisted, or partial resisted, and can eat up mana or time that could be spent casting other spells. The pet is powerful for its level, but it's still low level and isn't reliable to tank for an extended period of time. Don't get me wrong, you could get by with a warrior, but as a shadowknight, you have access to one of the best pulling mechanics in the game, Feign Death. Also, as mentioned in the thread, warriors are relatively boring to play since they have all of four active abilities until you get disciplines.

[Versus]

Shadowknight. Why? Because they are better outside of raids.

Why? Because they get agro quicker and hold it better.
Why? Disease Cloud, etc.

I'd say DPS is comparable up until a certain point (2x Yaks). Even still, the difference won't make that huge of a difference considering you will have the heals to keep you alive.

Berserk? Why is this useless? Because it doesn't kick in till 10%? 15%? Either way, if you are at that low of HP, you're in trouble anyway.

Shove your Socratic method and make a SK.

[azeth]

2. berserk? With a shaman healing you exclusively you had better hope you're not relying on running low HP. Not to mention Shaman heals are incredibly inefficient except for Torpor which negates your damage dealing ability anyways..

A strategy relying on berserk for an exp group is just dandy, however like the above poster and myself have identified it's just too dangerous a game to play with Shaman heals. That being said, like I identified in the above quote - Torpor may keep you in HP range to stay berserk, but the whole point of being berserk (damage) is immediately negated by Torpor's slow.

[Messianic]

SKs are probably the most versatile melee class in the game. FD (albeit with a cast time and not as fluid as a monk), Invis, IVU, harmshield at 51, self-heals via lifetap (which aren't crappy, you just have to have context), Ogre class choice means bash/slam availability, frontal stun immunity, amazing stats...

However, Fisch - the reason Azeth didn't waste any more time with you is because the Socratic method only works by forcing the other person to do all the real work. You just try to poke holes in someone else's ideas while repeatedly asking "why?"

If you want to really garner something useful, refine your questions after independently investigating what they say, and ask useful questions. Not just "why?" as your standard reply so frequently. Oh, also - insulting people - directly or indirectly - generally drives them away.

"Why?" is the question hundred-page theses and large-scale experiments try to answer. Asking everyone else to distill information for you is unreasonable. That's why the Socratic method is effective - people spend all their time explaining things to you while you repeat to yourself that "i'm not just a lemming, you have to justify your reasoning to me," instead of asking pointed, effective questions.

What you can get from this forum, however, is leads. You can then investigate those leads and ask better questions.

[azeth]

Anyone else remember Sk/Sham pretty much being untouchable Velious era? We all know Monk/Sham take the cake during Kunark due to mitigation, and tbh I'm not sure what exactly changes, but I do remember Sk/Sham duoing pretty much anything but raid targets.

[fischsemmel]

In before this thread keeps going on for the rest of week while people complain about me, even though my questions have been answered and I'm already playing my SK :)

[Crenshinabon]

could just be item progression started leaning towards melee in velius....
but i know for a fact kunark items are MUCH better for melee than in classic, so it will almost be there.

[Rejuvenation]

Sk and Shammy are one of the biggest duo staples in EQ. The utility of an SK far outweighs the extra dps and slightly better mitigation of a warrior.

Gearing an SK should be less expensive then a warrior, because it holds agro via spells rather than weapons. In a group situation, a hybrid tank is generally always the preferred tank. They are more consistent and have little upkeep.

FD with be a godsend, and help for pulling things when root-parking isnt feasible. Go with an SK.

[john_savage1982]

http://i.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/fragmaster~aneckbeard3a.jpg
Hey neckbeards talking about your super logic "I must know the truth" crap.

Having played an SK to 60 in a past life I can answer a few of your questions and more:

1. The character will never be played solo.
Your choice of warrior or SK has no implications for this statement. Both classes do well in groups. SKs have better survival and utility (FD, IVU, Invis, Pet, Snare, Fear, Taps) as opposed to warriors which have....well...more hp/AC. SKs have it easy-mode to get aggro and keep it.

2. The vast majority of its playtime will be duo with a shaman.
As it has been highlighted, SK/Shaman are like a staple duo as their ability in large ways complement one another. The extra DPS from both of your pets is also a plus.

3. Once in a while the two of us might get into a full group.
You will be an excellent tank for this full group. Your shaman will also be welcomed for slows/heals/buffs.

4. I will almost certainly never raid with the character.
Good. If you were looking to MT raids then you should go warrior. SKs typically play a backup tank in raids (although there are exceptions).

5. I have a 50 necro to farm gear/plat for my warrior.
This makes me believe that you should definitely go SK. Many of the spells that SKs get you will be familiar with and know how to use effectively.



Lifetaps
It is true that before Kunark SKs have pretty shitty taps (the lvl 49 life leach is pretty good but it has a long reuse timer). However, in the 50's during Kunark, SKs get "Spirit Tap" at lvl 55 and "Drain Spirit" at lvl 57, which correspond to necromancer's lvl 29 and 39 lifetaps respectively. These are pretty nice taps at 150+ to over 200+ hp per cast. Combine these with shaman heals and you're ready to rock.

Deeps
SKs get some fairly nice dots (lvl 39-49 necromancer dots) towards lvl 60 that stack nicely with shaman dots. Although they are not overwhelming strong dots, combine them with your pet (which your max lvl pet is the lvl 44 necro pet), and your melee damage, and suddenly you're dishing out some respectable damage.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

I've never seen anyone so proud of being dim as John Savage. JOHN SAVAGE!

[Thetruth]

http://i.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/images/fragmaster~aneckbeard3a.jpg
Hey neckbeards talking about your super logic "I must know the truth" crap.

Having played an SK to 60 in a past life I can answer a few of your questions and more:

1. The character will never be played solo.
Your choice of warrior or SK has no implications for this statement. Both classes do well in groups. SKs have better survival and utility (FD, IVU, Invis, Pet, Snare, Fear, Taps) as opposed to warriors which have....well...more hp/AC. SKs have it easy-mode to get aggro and keep it.

2. The vast majority of its playtime will be duo with a shaman.
As it has been highlighted, SK/Shaman are like a staple duo as their ability in large ways complement one another. The extra DPS from both of your pets is also a plus.

3. Once in a while the two of us might get into a full group.
You will be an excellent tank for this full group. Your shaman will also be welcomed for slows/heals/buffs.

4. I will almost certainly never raid with the character.
Good. If you were looking to MT raids then you should go warrior. SKs typically play a backup tank in raids (although there are exceptions).

5. I have a 50 necro to farm gear/plat for my warrior.
This makes me believe that you should definitely go SK. Many of the spells that SKs get you will be familiar with and know how to use effectively.



Lifetaps
It is true that before Kunark SKs have pretty shitty taps (the lvl 49 life leach is pretty good but it has a long reuse timer). However, in the 50's during Kunark, SKs get "Spirit Tap" at lvl 55 and "Drain Spirit" at lvl 57, which correspond to necromancer's lvl 29 and 39 lifetaps respectively. These are pretty nice taps at 150+ to over 200+ hp per cast. Combine these with shaman heals and you're ready to rock.

Deeps
SKs get some fairly nice dots (lvl 39-49 necromancer dots) towards lvl 60 that stack nicely with shaman dots. Although they are not overwhelming strong dots, combine them with your pet (which your max lvl pet is the lvl 44 necro pet), and your melee damage, and suddenly you're dishing out some respectable damage.

The truth says,

The Amish Mennonite in the photo needs to shave. For you are casting yourself out if you are under the age of 16. Playing Everquest is considered bad for you. Don't get casted out young neckbeard.

The Truth will set you free.

[john_savage1982]

http://www.impeccabledwaynejohnson.org/idjgalleries/albums/events/taurusstuntawds/2007/arrivalsshow/normal_wtsawds07-38.jpg

The Rock says know your damn role

[Bubbles]

johnsavage squeaked this point in there at the buzzer but it bears repeating:

Even at 50, the SK can summon a level 29 necro pet, which is going to make his dps a lot more comparable to warrior in the first place. And if we were talking sheer dps, we'd be telling him to go monk anyways.. Lord knows warriors aren't exactly dps machines.

One other nice aspect of the shadowknight is the lifetaps: the large benefit of the extra HPs on a warrior are going to be negated by the fact the shaman isn't complete healing you. Since you are going to be relying on piddly heals and regen to keep you alive, you're better off having the option to lifetap.

And the experience penalty won't be nearly as big a deal when you factor in the # of times the warrior would have died that the shadow knight didn't.

p.s. anyone counting on warrior crippling blows is forgetting exactly how hard even karnors trash mobs hit for.

[Gorgetrapper]

I'd also like to add a little something in. Berserk begins at 30% (and less), and with yaks (only an 8 damage weapon), you can do a crippling blow up to 160dmg or so with 200+ str. With a 21 dmg weapon (Blued 2 handed hammer), you can get upwards of 450+. These are just BASIC weapons and anything better only makes killing easier. I've had clerics who enjoyed keeping me alive below 30% in BnB exp groups instead of just hitting cheal. The mobs drop a HELL of a lot quicker, and it's not even dangerous.

[Dantes]

SK is going to give you more options. If you aren't planning on Raiding, go SK. EXP will go faster in duo too, so you won't notice the exp penalty so much.

[captainspauldin]

Warrior is always better than sk imo...

higher base equiped ac soft cap, better gains after soft cap, higher skill levels to complement it. ac is the most useful thing in this game pretty much. more than makes up for some small lifetaps.

only reason for playing a sk would be if u want to fd, which is very useful.

but is 30% less damage mitigation and 40% exp penalty worth fd?

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

What about a Paladin? :D

[Baa]

SK and Sham combo will be great when kunark comes around. From my perspective though there is going to be a high demand for good warriors in kunark.

When I first rolled my SK I could /who all SK and get maybe 20 max players, now ever man and his dog has a SK.

[burkemi5]

What about a Paladin? :D



/thread

[Dantes]

only reason for playing a sk would be if u want to fd, which is very useful.

but is 30% less damage mitigation and 40% exp penalty worth fd?

How about spell aggro? When you are duo with a Shaman who is slowing mobs and pissing them off... you don't think instant aggro from Disease Cloud is useful? Until you hit level 37 and yaks start procing, it's hard to compete with SK aggro.

Go Warrior/Shaman if the shaman wants to tank half the time. I want to say warriors are better, I am a warrior. But seriously, for somebody who's not interested in raids who is most likely in a duo situation... SK seems like a better choice.

[captainspauldin]

there are proc weapons that will hold agro just fine that he can wear after his first day or 2 of playing, 30-50 is alot slower than 1-30.

infact with the right proc weapons, agro is not a problem at all, and once 37 yaks going to do just fine and pretty decent dps.

[Bubbles]

I'd also like to add a little something in. Berserk begins at 30% (and less), and with yaks (only an 8 damage weapon), you can do a crippling blow up to 160dmg or so with 200+ str. With a 21 dmg weapon (Blued 2 handed hammer), you can get upwards of 450+. These are just BASIC weapons and anything better only makes killing easier. I've had clerics who enjoyed keeping me alive below 30% in BnB exp groups instead of just hitting cheal. The mobs drop a HELL of a lot quicker, and it's not even dangerous.

This relies on two things:

Single pulls + a BnB group where warrior DPS actually matters.

Neither is a recipe for mobs dropping quick, or XP rolling in. ;)

[Gorgetrapper]

This relies on two things:

Single pulls + a BnB group where warrior DPS actually matters.

Neither is a recipe for mobs dropping quick, or XP rolling in. ;)

Doesn't matter if it matters or not, more DPS is more DPS regardless. For EXP groups, anything helps, raids, well... you leave that to the pets since they're broken.

[captainspauldin]

tbh id personally just roll a monk haha.

if u dont wanna be a warrior for being the hands down best tank with low dps
or u want lots of dps as a melee that can still actually take a hell of a good beating(mnk)
or fd id not your favorite god skill or have an obsession for sks for some particular reason

monk actually has a decent ac return after the soft cap, and since they have such high agility to complement ac and super high dodge, they actually do a damn fine job as well as the dps they do.

[fischsemmel]

tbh id personally just roll a monk haha.

if u dont wanna be a warrior for being the hands down best tank with low dps
or u want lots of dps as a melee that can still actually take a hell of a good beating(mnk)
or fd id not your favorite god skill or have an obsession for sks for some particular reason

monk actually has a decent ac return after the soft cap, and since they have such high agility to complement ac and super high dodge, they actually do a damn fine job as well as the dps they do.

Not sure why I never was even considering monk. I knew about their awesomeness with shaman buddies, but meh. Maybe I'd make an Iksar one if Kunark were today and not everyone else on the server was making one too... but neither of those is true :)

[Messianic]

anyone counting on warrior crippling blows is forgetting exactly how hard even karnors trash mobs hit for.

[Wotsirb401]

I guess it all depends on your goals. Just going to be duoing and having fun in the game content. They both have their pro's and con's. Being an ex-warrior, it can be fun to see how many mobs you can hold aggro on. Then again the dps does fail with a warrior when you can't solo Green mobs in DL @ level 60 without some heals lol. I would say Monk/SK, leaning more towards SK. Warriors draw the advatange as MT's in raiding situations. They are pretty helpless on their own =) But everyone wants one, they are like a tall exotic foregin girl who doesn't speak much english.

[captainspauldin]

if ur warrior cant solo greens he dont have the right gear hehe. need some heal or rune proc crap and as much ac and agility that you can find. iksar + fungi tunic would work pretty good haha. dont get hit enough to heal inbetween them :).

that and weapon swap some dot procs inbetween your heals to get the dps going.

[Intricus]

I notice the phrase "FD pulling" getting brought up in this thread quite often, and have heard of it in many others. My question is, what good does it do on here? From my experience on here, it is totally moot for breaking up/ splitting camps, as all mobs on here tend to 'stick together', and walk back to their spawn points at the same time. FD pulling only seems to be useful on here for getting rid of any adds in outdoor zones, like DL or OT (Well, they aint open yet, but yea...) but it doesen't work for breaking camps.

[Wotsirb401]

I am talking High end level gear, not level 30 greens, these are like 55+ trash mobs. My warrior was fully geared in Upper Plane Fear( water/fire/earth disease etc.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Fd pulling here requires using walls and corners more than on live.

[mitic]

a warrior is designed for raids, a shk designed ftw

[Dantes]

Exactly.

4. I will almost certainly never raid with the character.

Go SK.

[captainspauldin]

I am talking High end level gear, not level 30 greens, these are like 55+ trash mobs. My warrior was fully geared in Upper Plane Fear( water/fire/earth disease etc.

we will never be fighting level 55 greens or have plane of fire/water gear/mobs

atleast for years and years if ever

[endemictruth]

Warrior is always better than sk imo...

higher base equiped ac soft cap, better gains after soft cap, higher skill levels to complement it. ac is the most useful thing in this game pretty much. more than makes up for some small lifetaps.

only reason for playing a sk would be if u want to fd, which is very useful.

but is 30% less damage mitigation and 40% exp penalty worth fd?

:rolleyes:


....

[Nirgon]

Get stun procs for monk tank

[Anesthia]

Necro threads for forum pvp achievement boosting!

Fischsemmel ist ein bekannter Troll, /thread.

[Picked]

Well if you like chasing down mobs from ping ponging aggro then start a warrior. No amount of twinking is going to change the fact that warriors are just not as good aggro.

If you want to actually "tank" the mob, and not briefly rely on taunt aggro for all of 1 second then SK is what you want.

I see people rolling warriors all the time thinking they can make it work and it just doesn't. Regardless of hundreds of thousands of plat twinking. It just looks frustrating to me. I'm not saying they aren't useful, because a warrior tank is much better than no tank. However if I am forming a group I would much prefer an SK to a Warrior.

[Tecmos Deception]

It's an ancient, necrod thread, dudes. The OP probably doesn't need advice anymore.

That aside, I'm preeettty sure that a warrior twinked with hundreds of thousands of PP is going to hold aggro just fine from 1-60. Lulz.

[fadetree]

Was ist los? Der Hund ist los!

[Splorf22]

It's an ancient, necrod thread, dudes. The OP probably doesn't need advice anymore.

That aside, I'm preeettty sure that a warrior twinked with hundreds of thousands of PP is going to hold aggro just fine from 1-60. Lulz.

This is not really true. There are no good warrior twink weapons that are comparable to Ragebringer / RFS / Tstaff; all the really good warrior weapons are in Veeshan's Peak and the epic is both much harder and much less mqable than the Rogue/Monk ones. In additional all the weapons with good ratios don't proc until 40-50. So 1-40 you basically use the staff of battle and then at 50+ the vast majority of non-TMO-twink-warriors use the Sarnak Warhammer+Silken Whip (9/20+14/28) which don't compare favorably with an epic monk (9/16+17/28) or rogue (15/25+10/18).

At the really high end warrior aggro is pretty solid. If you are dual-wielding sword of the shissar/red epic (14/24+14/23) and have tons of cobalt and sky gear so your dex is 255 with shaman buffs you'll get a massive aggro proc every 20 seconds. On the other hand my iksar warrior struggled to get 125 dex and basically relied on FD/evade to get aggro. I'm actually thinking about reviving him a bit and giving him a SCD/Wurmslayer or two Bloodpoints and basically telling rogues/monks to handle it themselves.

[Danth]

If the thread creator still posts, it'd be interesting for him to come back and discuss what decisions he made and how things turned out.

Warriors and Monks both suffer from a lack of initial hate and also from a lack of reliable snap aggro. This can be a considerable nuisance when partnering with a Shaman who may want to malo, slow, and add damage spells to the target monster as quickly as possible. In many cases the Shaman must either take the time and mana to root the target and hope it holds, or simply soak the damage until the warrior/monk starts having procs.

Danth

[greatdane]

Mostly it comes down to this: shadowknight can pull and snare. A shaman can't and you'll want both of these things in a duo setup. The only thing warriors really have are disciplines and you don't need those for anything a duo might do.

[bizzum]

Why would we necro Fischdick's thread?

[canker]

Why would we necro Fischdick's thread?

umad

[Swish]

Well, as this is a dead thread... it needs cat pictures until someone deletes or buries it:-

https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/9/9/10OArQVFOE-lYbGKsRAAwA2.jpg

[Swish]

https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/9/15/p3Va8bC2_0uWMGENOY3jSA2.jpg

[webrunner5]

You people are sick pups with those cat pictures. And Yah I have to agee. SK is better with FD pulls, and snare , Fear.

[theaetatus]

Go for the SK for sure if you're not looking to MT raids.

You'll get all the utility mentioned as well as IVU for both for of you without needing pots.