Ogre still best sk?

[Seeatee]

Is ogre still the best sk due to the stats and stun immunity or iksar better due to greenmist and their ac / regen? Are the iksar lowbie armor quests active in game?

[Brut]

Yes.

[Troxx]

High end greenmist is irrelevant. High end is a choice between more AC and regen and not needing shrink vs having frontal FSI. At the high end starting stats are irrelevant. High end favors iksar.

Not high end? More of a toss up as Ogre base stats are fairly significant vs low stats of iksar.

[Samoht]

High end is a choice between more AC and regen and not needing shrink vs having frontal FSI. At the high end starting stats are irrelevant. High end favors iksar.

This. As an SK, there will be a very small window where FSI will actually be useful (channeling an FD against multiple bashers). The rest of the time, AC/regen will be much more beneficial. I would go so far as to say that even before Kunark, the regen alone on a troll was enough to match the FSI on an Ogre.

[Beastagoog]

didn't someone do some long winded nerdy excel test to prove that FSI increased DPS by a certain amount?

[Kelor]

I have an iksar warrior and stuns are not really a problem atm, but when needing to cast spells i find them annoying as hell.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Erudite SKs look the coolest, by far.

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

didn't someone do some long winded nerdy excel test to prove that FSI increased DPS by a certain amount?

I would think that this would be a very very small amount.

Also knights are not dps.

[georgie]

I have an iksar warrior and stuns are not really a problem atm, but when needing to cast spells i find them annoying as hell.

you don't have channeling as a warrior.

[Jimjam]

you don't have channeling as a warrior.

I'm sure he means when not playing on his warrior, but even so, sometimes you want to use a clicky with a warrior and you are delayed to when you can start casting it because you were already stunned by a bash.

[Jimjam]

Following the bad SK thread I restarted my original character, a troll SK. Only mid 30s but I gotta say I'm really noticing the stun interrupts on him. It's way more frustrating having spells interrupted on a SK than a ranger!

[fash]

Iksar. regen, better mana pool, stone of morid.

If you're solely focused on pve, I suppose fsi may become more important.

[Samoht]

It doesn't, though. The only spell that an SK ever absolutely has to cast and get it off the first time is FD. Any other circumstance, it's just a convenience and not a necessity. Yes, bash stun is annoying, but it's minor, and it's not like it puts your spells on cooldown or anything. Once the stun is over, you can immediately start recasting. It's seriously no big deal.

Regen on the other hand is a pretty big deal. Iksar extra AC is a pretty big deal.

LOL @ being concerned about SK DPS and thinking FSI means extra DPS.

[Samoht]

Having innate regen 100% of the time is exponentially more OP than needing to channel an FD through a bash less than 0.1% of the time.

[Samoht]

meaningless regen.

Yeah, you're done here.

[jolanar]

Oh look it's the same argument that we see over and over and over. Regen vs FSI.

[Vexenu]

Regen difference is 8 HP standing at 60. 80 hp per minute. An extra 4800 HP healed per hour. That's not bad.

But it's also not that good. 4800 HP over the course of an hour at level 60 is not going to drastically enhance your power or efficiency. In a 55+ group setting where you're likely to have some combination of a Fungi Tunic, Slow, Torpor, Regrowth and CH, it will barely even be noticeable. It's a very minimal advantage that is active 100% of the time.

FSI, in contrast, is a very large advantage that will noticeably increase your survival rate in bad situations (having to channel a FD through multiple mobs, or chain-spam lifetaps to stay alive in a close fight). Given that death and CRs are the worst punishment EQ can inflict, any ability that gives you a very real increase in your ability to avoid those outcomes is very powerful.

It's basically a question of a minimal increase in self-healing efficiency versus enhanced survivability in SHTF scenarios. If you go for Troll/Iksar you will likely never notice the increased efficiency gained from regen, but every time you get bashed and interrupted in combat, and certainly every time you have your FD bash interrupted by 2-3 mobs, you will definitely wonder "what if" you had been an Ogre.

[Samoht]

Regen difference is 8 HP standing at 60. 80 hp per minute. An extra 4800 HP healed per hour. That's not bad.

That's only the minimal gain. You completely ignore the huge bonus you get to regen while sitting/FD. You also ignore how below 50, your innate regen is double every other race. That means much less downtime for the life of the character.

That's so much better than channeling FD through a bash once every week or so.

[Troxx]

If a fungi tunic with 15 regen a tick represents THE best bp in the game on 99.9% of content, I'm not sure how anyone could make the case that 8 standing regen per tick is insignificant. 4800 less health needing to be healed for say a Druid or a non torpor shaman over the course of an hour translates to 1920 less mana used in an hour. That's 9.6 minutes of meditating for a Druid - 16% of their time over an hour absent clarity that's not specifically dedicated to healing the difference in damage. For a cleric that's conservatively 2 less complete heals for 800 mana (4 minutes of meditating).

EQ is a slower game of attrition. That's what makes fungi so powerful even at level 60 hunting anything but raid content. For time spent soloing or duo? That regen is going to lower down time by a large amount.

FSI is nice but think about this: no paladin in game can play ogre and the lack of FSI doesn't make them puny tanks or incapable of casting spells. Need to fd with multiple mobs on you? Shouldn't be a problem unless you stupidly wait until critically low health to try to cast. Such scenarios are also frankly avoidable with smart play.

Ogre is a solid race. With velious out I'd put iksar (regen/AC) as the min/max with raid gear. Without raid gear troll for regen, better stats, and slam.

[Troxx]

PS: this FSI debate comes up stupidly often for shamans. I cannot think of a single instance in 60 full levels and beyond where getting bashed got me killed or resulted in a bad outcome. I can think of times where it was annoying but not nearly as annoying as having 8/11 less hp/tick would regen would be. Prior to torpor the extra regen was even more clutch.

I chose Troll and wouldn't swap races even at 60 with torpor if such a thing were even possible.

[Samoht]

I saw an Ogre Shaman the other day in KC face tank an overpull and basically blue club himself before he got his heal off. He was 0% on my screen. So I've seen FSI be useful one time in my 6 years of playing here. I've seen thousands more instances where extra regen would have been more useful.

[Vexenu]

The Regen vs. FSI debate is different for SKs than Shaman. With a Shaman, efficiency is a huge part of the class. Stacking regen is a big deal. And that's not to say that regen is worthless on an SK. It definitely isn't. But there are other factors to consider, namely survivability. As an SK you will be tanking or pulling basically 100% of the time. You will be getting hit a lot, and often by multiple mobs. You will invariably find yourself in bad situations where you need to get a FD off immediately or you'll be dead. FSI inarguably helps with those situations.

Regen definitely makes you more efficient, but as an SK your job isn't to be efficient. It's to be the beefiest tank you can be. It's to survive the inevitable nasty situations you get into while pulling. Simply put, it's to stay alive for as long as possible. Regen is great over a long period of time, but in those critical seconds that decide between living and a nasty CR, it's much more important to be able to successfully channel FD or spam lifetaps/skin.

And it's not like an Ogre SK can't regen, either. With Fungi/Regrowth:

Troll/Iksar standing regen at 60: 420 hp per min
Ogre standing regen at 60: 340 hp per min

So from a realistic perspective it's not a question of enormous regen vs. no regen and FSI. It's slightly better regen vs. FSI.

All that being said, regen is still obviously a very good racial. Iksar have a very strong case for being the best min/max SK race due to their excellent combo of racials (regen, AC, not a large race). But Ogre FSI is a really, really strong racial that is not to be underestimated. No amount of gear can ever make up for it. An Ogre can shrink, he can stack his AC and regen with gear and spells, but a non-Ogre can never achieve FSI.

[Samoht]

You will invariably find yourself in bad situations where you need to get a FD off immediately or you'll be dead. FSI inarguably helps with those situations.

Too bad this is quite literally the only situation where FSI actually comes into play. Any other times, the extra regen is without a doubt superior to FSI.

Regen definitely makes you more efficient, but as an SK your job isn't to be efficient. It's to be the beefiest tank you can be. It's to survive the inevitable nasty situations you get into while pulling. Simply put, it's to stay alive for as long as possible.

If survivability is really what matters the most, then Iksar AC/regen together definitely beats FSI which has the tiniest window of usefulness of all the racial abilities available for an SK.

With Fungi/Regrowth:

Troll/Iksar standing regen at 60: 420 hp per min
Ogre standing regen at 60: 340 hp per min

Lol @ intentionally skewing the benefit of the regen by adding other sources of regen. Please repost without including outside buffs.

[Vexenu]

Too bad this is quite literally the only situation where FSI actually comes into play. Any other times, the extra regen is without a doubt superior to FSI.

Those are pretty important situations, though. You can't just gloss over them. It's literally going to save your life when it happens. It's sort of like an insurance policy that pays out big infrequently, where regen is a constant small drip of money in your pocket. Which is better? It depends on your playstyle (solo/duo a lot vs. full groups, pull a lot, like to push the limits and get into dangerous situations, etc...) and what you value most.


If survivability is really what matters the most, then Iksar AC/regen together definitely beats FSI which has the tiniest window of usefulness of all the racial abilities available for an SK.

This very well may be true. I said as much. But as I also pointed out, regen and AC can be acquired through spells and gear. FSI cannot. Does that mean FSI is unquestionably better? No. But it's an advantage that no other race will ever enjoy.


Lol @ intentionally skewing the benefit of the regen by adding other sources of regen. Please repost without including outside buffs.

I did that because those will be the practical regen values most people will actually be playing with at 60 when duoing, pulling or tanking for a group. Saying Troll/Iksar regen 80 more hp per minute is one thing (80 vs. 0 sounds stark), contrasting the actual likely regen numbers (420 vs 340) puts it into better perspective.

[Samoht]

I did that because those will be the practical regen values most people will actually be playing with at 60 when duoing, pulling or tanking for a group. Saying Troll/Iksar regen 80 more hp per minute is one thing (80 vs. 0 sounds stark), contrasting the actual likely regen numbers (420 vs 340) puts it into better perspective.

But it's a skewed perspective none-the less. Your scenario makes a lot of flawed assumptions like every group has regen or every SK has a fungi. It's just not realistic.

[demokatt]

I picked ogre for solo play, not for stun imunity but for str 140 and sta 127 - thinking I would kill em off faster not needing to regen as much :-)

[mickmoranis]

This. As an SK, there will be a very small window where FSI will actually be useful (channeling an FD against multiple bashers).

So... you're saying if your not ogre, you're gonna die?

...and without a rez, you wont even need to regen, so the ogre wins again!

the question is, do you make more exp from the expedited Hit-point Regen, than you would if you survived every failed FD from frontal stun over the course of leveling?

[Razaz]

The question is if you can stand looking at an ogre or not.

[tycohunden]

Trolls = Chad. Ogre = Fat loser beta orbiter, able to take stuns, because used to societal rejection, semi retarded. Iksars = Tards, Dark Elves = Poindexter. Erudite = Tard wranglers.

[Danth]

Those are pretty important situations, though. You can't just gloss over them. It's literally going to save your life when it happens.

When's that going to happen? I've been on my human Shadow Knight for 6 years and I can't recollect even a single case where I died but having bash immunity might have saved me. Not even once. I can recall a single, possible (not certain) time where having a couple hundred HP from an Ogre's higher stats might have saved me....although it also might've meant I just would've died 10 seconds later instead. Bash immunity seems great on forum theorycraft but in practice I can't see that it really matters except for people who get annoyed at being bashed now and then.

People overthink the importance of race in this game. Ogre gives a small advantage. Iksar and Troll give a modest advantage. None of them are worth picking if you dislike the way they look because liking your character is the most important attribute.

Danth

[Jimjam]

Danth, I think this might be a skill issue.

I recently resumed playing my troll SK (my original toon I abandoned at level 30). Assume very low levels of skill/knowledge!

Pulling the raider/warrior rooms in hhk I had a few instances where I struggled juggling several potential bashes and casts when attempting FD. That said, while I had difficulties and even a few broken FDs, I don't think I ever actually DIED due to a mistimed frontal stun. Hell, I was even pulling CoM arena at 35 and never died due to stun. Still early days though ;)


Actually, somewhat relatedly to thread, I did once get trapped in a corner due to my large troll gut, which meant I died to a bunch of bashes to the rear by goo house. If I had been a smaller race, I certainly would have been fine.

[aaezil]

iksar or troll if you want "the best race(s). Regen op.

[Cecily]

Why is frontal stun immunity even considered as a SK? They have like 2 spells and none of them are -that- critical to get not get interrupted. And actually if you're getting interrupted, that means you have agro. Which makes casting spells for agro a bit redundant and even less critical to be cast right then and there.

[Troxx]

From a healers perspective I'll just reiterate that the difference in required healing between an iksar/troll tanking (be it monk/war/sk) and any other race tanking is VERY noticeable. This isn't to say other races don't work - far from it. My shaman's partner in crime is a 60 human monk and he gets by just fine. I even chose to make my own monk human.

I can't think of a time where I said "gee I wish this tank were an ogre". I can think of lots of times I would have had a much easier time had my tank that boost to regen. From 51-55 the 4 difference means 2400 less to heal an hour (~1k less mana). At 56 it's 7 and 60 it's 8 (4200 and 4800). If there's any sitting ticks it's a 7/10/11 a tick difference.

While flopped (big deal for monk/sk) it's a 5/8/9 difference.

Ogre is not the best. They are never a bad choice (far from it) but this community's love affair with FSI is a bit ludicrous.

[Tenlaar]

Why is frontal stun immunity even considered as a SK?

As far as I can tell the argument literally seems to be that FSI can stop FD (or fear, or one last lifetap I guess?) from being interrupted by one last bash when you are already so close to death that you can't survive another few seconds to try again.

Which I guess is a real thing, but seems pretty small compared to a benefit that is working literally 100% of the time that you're not at full hp, to me.

[Troxx]

Which happens practically never.

I've known Danth a long time - and he's been kicking a sk without FSI for a long time. If it's never been an issue for him it can't be a common occurrence. They also say it's a BIG deal for shamans but in 60 levels it (stun from the front) was never a deal once for me.

[Lhancelot]

I saw an Ogre Shaman do the impossible.

Thomas is right, ogre is always better when you can choose them as your character race, no matter the class.

FSI means you have a vastly better chance of getting your spells off and doing uninterrupted damage.

Being ogre means better starting stats, better survivabilty, and supreme tanking power granted through hidden stats that only ogres get.

Regen is useless when you are dead.

Go ogre, you will have no regrets.

[Danth]

...better starting stats, better survivabilty, and supreme tanking power granted through hidden stats that only ogres get.


There are no 'hidden stats'. This forum is not the place for lies and misdirection. Take that to RnF.

Danth

[demokatt]

If I still choose human, iksar or DE.. what would u put them starting points in? all in STA och perhaps STR/STA?

[Lhancelot]

There are no 'hidden stats'. This forum is not the place for lies and misdirection. Take that to RnF.

Danth

How do you know that?

I have seen others say the same and you didn't chime in on their post they needed to go to RnF.

You know no better than me and from anecdotal evidence (same as yours opposing my viewpoint btw) ogre really performs above and beyond other races.

Try it out yourself, Danth.

[Lhancelot]

If I still choose human, iksar or DE.. what would u put them starting points in? all in STA och perhaps STR/STA?

Go all STA, it's the most important stat for you as a tank, and all of those inferior races start with 60-70 less STA than ogres, meaning they need those starting stats in STA.

Dex, Str, both these stats are easier to get buffed or attained by gears later on.

Starting out it will be painful having low str and low dex, but in the long run it will pay off to have your points placed into STA.

[Troxx]

How do you know that?

I have seen others say the same and you didn't chime in on their post they needed to go to RnF.

You know no better than me and from anecdotal evidence (same as yours opposing my viewpoint btw) ogre really performs above and beyond other races.

Try it out yourself, Danth.

Rofl

I can never tell if this guy is just trolling for giggles or he legitimately believes the horse shit he posts.

[Lhancelot]

Rofl

I can never tell if this guy is just trolling for giggles or he legitimately believes the horse shit he posts.

No need to get mad. You are simply ignorant of the truth, while some others are aware of it. You are blinded by your Iksar love, you and Thomas but that's fine too.

I will show you someone that knows far more than you Troxx, on the topic of Ogres and hidden values.

ogres do have hidden values

^Pretty much proves it right there.

Doctor Jeff clearly knows the game better than you.

[Samoht]

If I still choose human, iksar or DE.. what would u put them starting points in? all in STA och perhaps STR/STA?

That depends on what your goal is. If you intend joining a raiding guild, you will easily get STR capped, so STA all the way.

If you never think you'll get 60 or join a raiding guild then it doesn't really matter.

[Cecily]

You know no better than me and from anecdotal evidence (same as yours opposing my viewpoint btw) ogre really performs above and beyond other races..

They get a short-term stat bonus compared to other races for a long-term size handicap. I've never once said, gee I wish we had more ogres at this raid. It's a little too easy to move my character. (Eveyone hates them)

[Lhancelot]

They get a short-term stat bonus compared to other races for a long-term size handicap. I've never once said, gee I wish we had more ogres at this raid. It's a little too easy to move my character. (Eveyone hates them)

Shrink pots. Small inconvenience to manage considering the vast upsize to being a ogre.

[Jimjam]

Cecily's complaint is about other people's oversized ogres making it difficult for melee.

As they are self only, the existence of shrink potions does not help dps when there are fatties that refuse to use them.

[Troxx]

I'm still laughing at the insistence ogres have a hidden stat.

[Tarskin]

Especially since things like that can so easily be tested... Simplest possible test that has been done many, many times would be to take a halfling and an ogre with same haste %, str(attack) and weapons fight the same mob and parse their damage output (while not tanking), this should yield a similar value and thus 'proving' that there are no 'hidden' modifiers.

[Troxx]

I mean I get how this misconception could exist. Ogre starting strength is very stout which may lead the uninformed to just feel that Ogres (with their higher str and thus attack) are innately better. This isn't a 'hidden stat' though - it's right there in plain sight and ultimately negated in that at high levels with good buffs any race can and WILL cap their str to 255.

Racial difference are clearly defined.

For shadowknights,

Ogres have insane starting str/stam, slam, and FSI
Troll have good starting str/stam, slam, and regen
Iksars have bad starting stats, regen, ac bonus, and smaller size
Humans have medium starting stats and no xp penalty
Dark elves have bad starting stats, sexy factor, ultravision, and no xp penalty

[Pheer]

my ogre sk easily had 255 str unbuffed in kunark gear, its probably the easiest stat to get on gear as an SK

The only reason to ever pick ogre over troll is for FSI and the only reason to pick any other race besides those two is for personal preference/fashionquest

When I made my SK guises were still available so i went ogre for FSI + still not having to deal with size issues, plus the high base stats were great to have in classic. If you made me pick between ogre/troll without the possibility of a guise I would probably go troll.

[Lhancelot]

Cecily's complaint is about other people's oversized ogres making it difficult for melee.

As they are self only, the existence of shrink potions does not help dps when there are fatties that refuse to use them.

Those are bad ogres then.

They should be prepared to make others at ease with their massive size by shrinking down one time.

People feel much more comfortable with ogres when they are small, cute and cuddly!

[Brut]

Having played a troll SK on red and an ogre on blue, I would still point out that FSI is the most OP racial trait in the game, and anyone who argues otherwise just straight doesn't know what they're talking about.

Regen doesn't matter unless you plan to achieve the dream of soloing some lguk names and sit there regenerating for couple minutes less.

If you can pick Ogre, go Ogre. Applies to all the class choices that can do so.

[Lhancelot]

Having played a troll SK on red and an ogre on blue, I would still point out that FSI is the most OP racial trait in the game, and anyone who argues otherwise just straight doesn't know what they're talking about.

Regen doesn't matter unless you plan to achieve the dream of soloing some lguk names and sit there regenerating for couple minutes less.

If you can pick Ogre, go Ogre. Applies to all the class choices that can do so.

^TRUTH

[elwing]

Ogres can't worship Bertoxxulous, they are irrelevant!

[Cen]

My final character I have planned to make down the line is/was a Female Dark Elf SK. The problem is that I always wanted to roleplay a lipstick lesbian black knight who cleaves people in half and eats their souls.. but if I do that I won't have front stun immunity or regen.

Its a tough call man. What you guys think I should do?

[aaezil]

I'm still laughing at the insistence ogres have a hidden stat.

Yeah i've been laughing about that for awhile now. Guy thinks nobody but him has played ogre lol. ( and even funnier thinks no one has looked at the code to find this ever) Ive played all the tank races except iksar and human and yeah theres no hidden values. Confrmation bias or tricked by the stats prob a combinaion of the two.

[Jimjam]

So how do people rate Erud SK?

I often see comments on how velious gear and buffs really rains down the melee stats, making them trivially capped...

Eruds are well sized, and also get to trade 5 near useless disease resist for 5 delicious, delicious magic resist!

Also Eruds look like BAMFs, and open Blade roleplay opportunities.

[Troxx]

I rate whatever race a person prefers the look of to be the best choice.

[Icetech]

I started a ogre SK last week and the main reason i went ogre.. FSI.... and i have whined about the size and having to duck to get through neriak. and not see mobs i am fighting. And other SK's have reminded me that if i re-roll, the first time i got stunned i would lose my mind.. and they are right :)

[welly321]

Yeah i've been laughing about that for awhile now. Guy thinks nobody but him has played ogre lol. ( and even funnier thinks no one has looked at the code to find this ever) Ive played all the tank races except iksar and human and yeah theres no hidden values. Confrmation bias or tricked by the stats prob a combinaion of the two.

Third option, Guy has an autistic obsession with ogres and nothing anyone says will change his mind.

[Lhancelot]

Yeah i've been laughing about that for awhile now. Guy thinks nobody but him has played ogre lol. ( and even funnier thinks no one has looked at the code to find this ever) Ive played all the tank races except iksar and human and yeah theres no hidden values. Confrmation bias or tricked by the stats prob a combinaion of the two.

Back up your anecdotal evidence then since you "know" there are no hidden values or codes.

Your words are no more relative or true than mine, just because you "played all the tank races" blah blah blah. I laugh at that.

Clearly your subjective and anecdotal evidence you've pulled out your ass regarding ogres and hidden values means more than mine. :p

[Razaz]

Back up your anecdotal evidence then since you "know" there are no hidden values or codes.

The exact same can be said about you. Why don't you back up your anecdotal evidence of these hidden values with real evidence? Until you do, 255 strength is going to be the same on an ogre as it is on a gnome.

People will debate the value of FSI until the end of EQ, but, it's not debatable that it exists. Since you love Ogres so much, prove these hidden values do exist, and spread the gospel of Rallos Zek's creations.

[Lhancelot]

The exact same can be said about you. Why don't you back up your anecdotal evidence of these hidden values with real evidence? Until you do, 255 strength is going to be the same on an ogre as it is on a gnome.

People will debate the value of FSI until the end of EQ, but, it's not debatable that it exists. Since you love Ogres so much, prove these hidden values do exist, and spread the gospel of Rallos Zek's creations.

I love all races of Norrath. I just have to admit the superiority of ogres to other races. Doesn't mean I like them more or less.

I also ackowledged already my proof is purely anecdotal, I never said anything differently.

At least I didn't proclaim, "I played all the races as warriors and thus hold supreme knowledge and proof that ogres have no such hidden values!"

I laugh at that.

[Troxx]

Dude ... what you have anecdotally can't even be remotely considered proof.

No race has "hidden statistics".

What you're claiming is akin to insisting that gnomes are indeed actually faster, citing how much faster the feel because your camera in first person (being so close to the ground) makes it appear like you're moving faster - and the fact that their tiny midget legs swing faster to keep up with the other races of Norrath.

I still think you're flawlessly playing the part of a troll ... expertly passing yourself off as borderline intellectually disabled. If this is indeed the case, pras! You've kept up the charade admirably.

[branamil]

Food for thought:

Ogres are hideous and have all the polygons of a mine craft character. you'll probably quit sooner than if you picked a well designed race to make your eyes stop bleeding.. So other races can tank more over the long term.

[Jimjam]

Dude ... what you have anecdotally can't even be remotely considered proof.

No race has "hidden statistics".

What you're claiming is akin to insisting that gnomes are indeed actually faster, citing how much faster the feel because your camera in first person (being so close to the ground) makes it appear like you're moving faster - and the fact that their tiny midget legs swing faster to keep up with the other races of Norrath.

I still think you're flawlessly playing the part of a troll ... expertly passing yourself off as borderline intellectually disabled. If this is indeed the case, pras! You've kept up the charade admirably.
Halflings have loaded dice a racial attribute.

That's why they tend to do so good in greed groups.

[Lhancelot]

Halflings have loaded dice a racial attribute.

That's why they tend to do so good in greed groups.

I can attest this anecdotal story is 100% true. Yesterday, a halfling cleric won every damn roll on anything worth 1k or higher. No lie.

***also proves that indeed, there are hidden stats and values. Ogres tank better thanks to hidden ogre stats.

[Razaz]

Bristlebane made the Halflings, what else do you expect from the King of Thieves?

**Not a statement committing to a belief of hidden stats**

[welly321]

Iksar is the best SK by far. They are second in looks (to darkelf), They have regen, they have bonus AC. They have an easier time in dungeons due to size (important for pulling). If you dont have a ikky sk sorry your doing it wrong.

[Icetech]

Iksar is the best SK by far. They are second in looks (to darkelf), They have regen, they have bonus AC. They have an easier time in dungeons due to size (important for pulling). If you dont have a ikky sk sorry your doing it wrong.

Who chooses a race based on looks? it's pixels.. they don't matter.. size is an issue.. but baby jesus made shrink pots for that.. and the next time you overpull and sit there stunned just remember somewhere an ogre is laughing :)

[Jimjam]

Who chooses a race based on looks? it's pixels.. they don't matter.. size is an issue.. but baby jesus made shrink pots for that.. and the next time you overpull and sit there stunned just remember somewhere an ogre is laughing :)

It's pixels all the way down. Pixels and bits.

[Muggens]

Halflings have loaded dice a racial attribute.

That's why they tend to do so good in greed groups.

Yep! True dat

[demokatt]

Even more reson to pick race first when Its all about pixels. I tend to mostly solo as sk even though one shouldnt - in that case troll or iksar have an advantage

[aaezil]

He isnt a troll hes an ogre! but yeah not a troll just legitimately idiotic enough to believe in something like undiscovered hidden values in a 20 year old game that's been reverse engineered. Sit down now nerd.

[Jimjam]

My SK is up to 41 now. Been doing a lot of fear kiting and I've been conscientious to refresh fear before fade. Perhaps I'd be willing to slack a little more on this if I were ogre.

Still not had a problem due to being non-FSI. Being fat has caused occasional problems though. Not used slam so much. Regen occasionally useful while FD. Been a few faction moments I've been glad I wasn't iksar. Worked on my gear and have noticed most of it is iksar friendly now.

Verdict so far is a wash between troll/iksar. Probably skewering more and more towards Iksar as vanilla/kunark continue to decrease in relevance.

Everytime I get slowed or rooted I wonder if that extra 5MR for Erud might have saved me.

[Sparklepuss]

Everytime I get slowed or rooted I wonder if that extra 5MR for Erud might have saved me.

55 Erudite SK here, it probably wouldn't have.

[Spyder73]

Honestly this entire thread is ridiculous - Dark Elf is the obvious choice as they are fashion quest king by a large margin. If you do not think that fashion quest is THE ONLY thing that matters...then I say you do not know how to EQ properly.

Dark Elf plate is too good to pass

[Vicatin]

Honestly this entire thread is ridiculous - Dark Elf is the obvious choice as they are fashion quest king by a large margin. If you do not think that fashion quest is THE ONLY thing that matters...then I say you do not know how to EQ properly.

Dark Elf plate is too good to pass

Do people think its a coincidence that GQ rhymes with EQ?

[Xaanka]

Honestly this entire thread is ridiculous - Dark Elf is the obvious choice as they are fashion quest king by a large margin. If you do not think that fashion quest is THE ONLY thing that matters...then I say you do not know how to EQ properly.

Dark Elf plate is too good to pass

whyd you roll a human monk then?

[Priceline]

ITT - Llllllancelot proving, once again, that he's a multiple choice of the following:


Jizz bucket
common stale
ass-jacking cockthistle
Fuckmuppet college professor
shitferret
uninformed knobcheese
douchehammer
big, spoon-faced, Etonian spunk rocket
cross-eyed gloryhole badger
brainless, carefree, spackled sack of cunt mange
massive, fetid ballbag
dickwhistling cuntsprocket
slimy, low-lying, lizardy cockwomble
dishfaced wankstain


i'm going with uninformed knobcheese for that glorious "hidden ogre stats" bs

[Lhancelot]

ITT - Llllllancelot proving, once again, that he's a multiple choice of the following:


Jizz bucket
common stale
ass-jacking cockthistle
Fuckmuppet college professor
shitferret
uninformed knobcheese
douchehammer
big, spoon-faced, Etonian spunk rocket
cross-eyed gloryhole badger
brainless, carefree, spackled sack of cunt mange
massive, fetid ballbag
dickwhistling cuntsprocket
slimy, low-lying, lizardy cockwomble
dishfaced wankstain


i'm going with uninformed knobcheese for that glorious "hidden ogre stats" bs

^Random ignorant nerd posting insults.

Having played a troll SK on red and an ogre on blue, I would still point out that FSI is the most OP racial trait in the game, and anyone who argues otherwise just straight doesn't know what they're talking about.

Regen doesn't matter unless you plan to achieve the dream of soloing some lguk names and sit there regenerating for couple minutes less.

If you can pick Ogre, go Ogre. Applies to all the class choices that can do so.

^Top tier guild member reflecting on how much better ogres are over the other races.

[Icetech]

This server has a pretty nice community, i don't understand why the mods would let a human like this to still post on the forums...


ITT - Llllllancelot proving, once again, that he's a multiple choice of the following:


Jizz bucket
common stale
ass-jacking cockthistle
Fuckmuppet college professor
shitferret
uninformed knobcheese
douchehammer
big, spoon-faced, Etonian spunk rocket
cross-eyed gloryhole badger
brainless, carefree, spackled sack of cunt mange
massive, fetid ballbag
dickwhistling cuntsprocket
slimy, low-lying, lizardy cockwomble
dishfaced wankstain


i'm going with uninformed knobcheese for that glorious "hidden ogre stats" bs

[Caiu]

Dude is annoying but I agree massive, fetid ballbag is a bridge too far.

[Lhancelot]

Dude is annoying but I agree massive, fetid ballbag is a bridge too far.

Compliment coming from you.