What a torp shm / enc can kill/camp that cleric / enc cannot?

[Izmael]

All at 60.

Discuss.

[Maliant]

60 monk / 60 sham best combo no worry about ring breaks ez oz.

[Victorio]

Nothing. Enc can already slow and sham heals are inferior on charm pet to clr heals.

Edit: actually, anything a sham can kill that a clr/enc can't, a torp sham + enc will be able to kill and a clr + enc won't.

[mickmoranis]

cleric > sham for enc duo ez no question.

The question is what good are 98% of the enchanters spells IF they're grouped with a shaman?

Not much is the answer.

[branamil]

The only thing the shaman brings to the table is Malo. Not critical enough to hold any camp that an Ench/cleric could not hold.

[Rygar]

I would think a Gwurm could be done by enc / shm but not enc / cleric. Need the big dog slow and a tash + malo to land it

[mickmoranis]

hmm idk why you would need to slow a gwurm if you were duoing it with a chanter? Are you thinking the shaman would tank while the enchanter had some crappy pet? idk... i think cheals would work better but if your pet broke, its game over probubly pretty instantly, that said it might not be if the shaman was tanking?

Good lord I dont think a shaman can tank a slowed gwurm though can it?

[Rygar]

They hit like in the 800s in Skyfire? An enchanted slow will be extremely difficult to land without a malo as well, I think shaman slows get resisted even with tash, malo, and occlusion of sound.

[mickmoranis]

Not sure a shaman could heal a feaster pet against a gwurm even with slow, but maybe.

Not sure a cleric could CH a feaster pet against a gwurm without slow either though, but maybe?

I would imagine the answer to OP's question is, whatever mob a shaman comes CLOSE to soloing, but just cant seem to solo... idk what those mobs are though maybe something in WW? Or a Gwurm like Rygar says?

But I just dont know for sure.

[Rygar]

I would think with rune + torpor+ spot heals a shaman could tank a slowed Gwurm for a very short bit. You need to get lucky with the charm breaks and have additional charm pets at the ready.

I guess the point is I think it is possible with shaman and chanter, just don't think it is possible with cleric and chanter (think cleric would get oom too fast even with chain charming pets).

This all is assuming straight up no tricks like strings or bladestopper or soulfires or 8 bags of wort pots or something ridiculous like that.

[mickmoranis]

first you couldnt chain charm a pet.

The reason I think the shaman/enchanter have a chance vs a cleric is, if you get a pet brake everyone will be dead.

if the shaman was tanking and you got a pet break, it might be do-able

But i know a shaman cannot solo tank a gwurm so i dont see how this would be any different.

[mickmoranis]

I honestly think your best bet would be cleric/chanter and use a 12k hp mob and prey that you can kill the wurm before it breaks, other than that I think no way... But idk for sure.

[Rygar]

Granted I don't play either a cleric or enchanter or a shaman, why can't you chain charm a pet? What I mean is, have your pet tank until near dead then charm a new one, send it in, kill off old one or just keep it root parked. It would take some good coordination, but wouldn't it be possible?

Perhaps there is some nuance about charm I am unaware of.

[Tecmos Deception]

Granted I don't play either a cleric or enchanter or a shaman, why can't you chain charm a pet? What I mean is, have your pet tank until near dead then charm a new one, send it in, kill off old one or just keep it root parked. It would take some good coordination, but wouldn't it be possible?

Perhaps there is some nuance about charm I am unaware of.

It works in some situations, but when you're dealing with something that can't be rooted, summons, hits like a truck, it's problematic. Even if you time things perfectly, avoid melee by getting summoned on a mob that's slowed but just used its melee round to finish the previous charm and then you kite, get the new pet siced on the mob before it summons again... it still is gonna be unlikely that the new pet picks up aggro over the players before another summon goes off and the mob has its melee attacks ready to wreck.

[Emmin]

What about Khelkar Icepaw in Velks? I'd think an enc/sham duo would be more successful than an enc/cleric duo. One charm break with a cleric and you're both dead whereas the sham could keep on tanking while the enc gets the pet back under control.

[supermonk]

probably captain kromzek..cleric would run out of mana.

[Qtip]

Probably would have to have a cleric dump a mallet into the wurm and keep aggro. Then the cleric could just kite the wurm around with a charmed pet on the wurm.

Dont know if this would work, but as long as the cleric doesnt do any damage, he shouldnt get summoned.

[eudaimonia_etc]

Duoing Khelkar with a shaman / enchanter is less dangerous than a cleric / enchanter. A velium stalker pet can backstab and recharm is trivial with the shaman tanking. It's also easier to slow with tash and malo. It is, of course, easy street with a cleric / enchanter if slow lands after only a couple casts and charm doesn't break.

[NextToTheGods]

Torpor tanking the target on a shm allows for a lot safer handling of the pet for the enc, tank it properly and youll never have the pet go down to summoning %. Me and Nybras duoed pom puppets with an a1 hobbit dual wielding Stone Hilted Flint Daggers, add malo to that and you have pretty decent dps. Never seen anyone close to duoing a round of puppets faster than that round.

[Troxx]

Duoing Khelkar with a shaman / enchanter is less dangerous than a cleric / enchanter. A velium stalker pet can backstab and recharm is trivial with the shaman tanking. It's also easier to slow with tash and malo. It is, of course, easy street with a cleric / enchanter if slow lands after only a couple casts and charm doesn't break.

Yeah that's a big IF. Khelkar is insanely resistant. Tash, Malo and level 60 helps this fight immensely. With a slow, either duo will win. Getting that slow is exponentially easier with double debuffs further amplified by the fact that enchanter can also toss out early slow attempts while the shaman tries to stick Turgurs.

After slow, torpor and chloroblast are sufficient healing.

For duo situations with a charm pet also realize that pets do benefit from stat buffs this includes agility. Agility is fairly worthless for players but npcs get a 1:1 mitigation return on armor class buffs (direct and indirect via agility). A charm pet with maniacal strength and focus stack will be hitting for their max values a lot more often than buffless. Clerics and shamans both buff AC but shaman can stack agility.

Both charm and summon pets enter an entirely new realm of beast mode when properly offensively and defensively buffed.

[kjs86z]

CHs for 10k+ 4tw

[NextToTheGods]

Good lord I dont think a shaman can tank a slowed gwurm though can it?

Solod a preslowed Guardiam Wurm on string shm without any trouble 5 mins ago if that answers your question.

[Tecmos Deception]

Both charm and summon pets enter an entirely new realm of beast mode when properly offensively and defensively buffed.

So we know that charmed pets will wear all sorts of types of gear on P99... weapons, -mr gear, +hp gear. Do you know if pets take advantage of AC (or stat) gear? To what extent it helps them tank?

Just curious :)

[Troxx]

AC returns be it gear or buff have 1:1 returns for NPCs.

There is no hard or soft cap, only the effect of 'diminishing returns' in the sense that you can never reach the point of an absolute zero chance of taking a max hit. I parsed this extensively on live. It was possible, however, for NPCs (pets) to reach a point where on a 4+ hour parse vs an unslowed yellow con NPC that a pet took zero hits in the DI 17-20 range and >60% of over 20,000 parsed hits were for minimum damage. It never reaches absolute zero, but the probability becomes so minuscule for all intents and purposes that is was functionally impossible to expect to see a single max hit in a 12 hour nonstop gaming session.

It's just how Everquest code is structured.

Player characters are subject to hard/soft caps where each point of AC literally becomes less important than the ones in front of it. This dynamic does not exist for NPCs - be they foe, charmed foe, or summoned pet.

[Troxx]

http://wiki.project1999.com/A_Drolvarg_Sentry

Charmed this has around 298ac naked. NPCs will wear most item slots (only 1 bracer). A full set of bronze minus 1 bracer adds another 103ac. Agility buff will add another 20ish. Raw AC buff depending on the class can add another 50ish. 173 real ... raw ... AC.

298 + 178 = 476ac

That's almost as much AC as this:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Veteran_Icecaller

Aside from the difference in levels and the relative impact it has on hit distribution - a green con charmed dog will take hits as well as a Kael arena baddie.

And if you charm one of these from seb?

http://wiki.project1999.com/Froglok_Krup_Knight

Base AC of 421 + 176 ... almost 600 raw (not visible/displayed) AC.


For any shaman who's ever duo'd with a summon pet tank (mage/necro) class or even just used their own dog to tank - this becomes very obvious. A properly buffed summon pet without gear (30 innate regen a tick) is easier to heal than a fungi monk. Give the pet gear and it's pretty amazing.

I almost feel dirty for letting the cat out of the bag ... but that's just how the game has always been coded.

[Tecmos Deception]

[Like.]

[mickmoranis]

Guys found two -5 mr items that didnt exist pre stonebrunt.. although theyre kind of a pain to get becuse of the (terrible and dumb) trivial loot code, since 1 of the 4 quest mobs is green to my character that the others are all blue to (bad design)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Titan_Samples_(good)

v frustrating code. (The beginning of the death of EQ imo)

But that + a riptied spear and a adamband is -25 mr, pretty strong.

[Maner]

CHs for 10k+ 4tw

CH caps at 10k....

[Troxx]

I thought that complete heal was limitless until they capped it at 7500 ... long after the timeline here?

[Maner]

I thought that complete heal was limitless until they capped it at 7500 ... long after the timeline here?

i have used a reaper on multiple charmed pets to have it do a max of 10k and leave the pet at like 80% life. Maybe reaper is different? although it is still called complete heal.

[waltjig]

naw, complete heal the spell and on the reaper is capped at 10k

[Izmael]

Should be uncapped then, I think? It has been nerfed in Luclin due to pets tanking AoW IIRC.

[lurk]

Change was closer to PoP and had nothing to do with charm...just the fact that a level 39 spell gets more and more efficient as tanks HP pools grew. Devs were really trying to get away from the CH chain model.