Rule Clarification

[Troxx]

Names have been expunged as my only goal here is to clarify existing rules as the individual I had a disagreement insisted that the rules were different than what I have always understood to be case. Even gender cons (bolded) made gender neutral to keep this non-inflammatory. Following this episode we have a long conversation that ended politely - we are both seeking an answer to this question.

Quick back story: I'm in the Ocean of Tears (salty, salty tears) doing seafuries. Island is crowded, so I'm up top at the 6:36 spawn that doesn't roam and tagging the tree spawn every with each spawn cycle. Top mob spawned and I'm floating just up the hill waiting for the next when someone else wanders up and sits down near that spawn about 45 seconds before this mob spawns. I cast AC buff on pet, then run down to AC buff myself while sitting beside what I had been pulling. I move down to sit closer.

I have fast fingers, first to stand and melee hit, mob attacks me first eating some of my rune. I power through and do get the kill. Stingy bastard drops

[Tue Jun 06 18:36:28 2017] You begin casting Spirit Armor.
[Tue Jun 06 18:36:30 2017] XXXX says, 'excuse me'
[Tue Jun 06 18:36:34 2017] Translucent armor gathers around you.
[Tue Jun 06 18:36:37 2017] XXXX says, ':P'
[Tue Jun 06 18:36:43 2017] You say, 'we can race if you want but i've been pulling this one for an hour'
[Tue Jun 06 18:36:50 2017] XXXX says, 'have you been pulling others?'
[Tue Jun 06 18:36:54 2017] XXXX says, 'if so you gave up this camp'
[Tue Jun 06 18:36:57 2017] XXXX says, 'so says the head gm'
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:03 2017] You say, 'there are no camps here, sorry'
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:06 2017] XXXX says, 'eys there are'
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:06 2017] You say, 'but we can race'
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:09 2017] XXXX says, 'look at the forums'
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:12 2017] XXXX says, 'i will petition'
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:15 2017] You say, 'pleae'
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:16 2017] XXXX says, 'wd'
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:16 2017] Auto attack is on.
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:17 2017] You crush a seafury cyclops for 42 points of damage.
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:17 2017] A seafury cyclops tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:17 2017] Xonann tells you, 'Attacking a seafury cyclops Master.'
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:17 2017] A seafury cyclops tries to hit YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:17 2017] XXXX pierces a seafury cyclops for 13 points of damage.
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:17 2017] XXXX pierces a seafury cyclops for 26 points of damage.
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:17 2017] XXXX pierces a seafury cyclops for 6 points of damage.
[Tue Jun 06 18:37:19 2017] XXXX kicks a seafury cyclops for 8 points of damage.

SPAM SPAM SPAM

[Tue Jun 06 18:38:08 2017] You have slain a seafury cyclops!
[Tue Jun 06 18:38:08 2017] You gain experience!!
[Tue Jun 06 18:38:10 2017] Gaber bites Gornit for 43 points of damage.
[Tue Jun 06 18:38:12 2017] XXXX regards you indifferently -- he/she/it appears to be quite formidable.
[Tue Jun 06 18:38:12 2017] You are inspecting XXXX.
[Tue Jun 06 18:38:12 2017] XXXX regards you indifferently -- he/she/it appears to be quite formidable.
[Tue Jun 06 18:38:13 2017] You receive 1 platinum, 14 gold, 11 silver and 15 copper from the corpse.



Regarding this specific circumstance, it's irrelevant as for the last 7-8 cycles I'd been killing both. A claim of 'camping' something I was keeping down was made while I was twiddling my thumbs waiting for the spawn. I'm fine sharing when the island is crowded - this didn't play out well initially though. It's the first dispute I've had here because I understand that it's more or less the wild wild west with few governing rules other than don't kill something that is already engaged.

Last GM response I could find was consistent with my understanding of how this island has worked for years:

That island is FTE. If you are KSd, petition. Encounter logs are easy to look up. As Loramin said, I've been out there quite a bit the past few weeks. If nobody responds right away, just be patient. Your petition stays in the que until one of us responds and/or clears it.

Citation:

Thread: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268294&highlight=seafury

Post on page 1: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2486654&postcount=8

Outdoor zones historically are FTE with the exception of static mobs that do not wander. Regarding this area of this zone, it breaks from traditional norms as even the one static and non-wandering mob historically has been FTE.

Is the island strictly FTE? Are certain mobs 'campable'?

I'm looking for clarification.

[indiscriminate_hater]

try red

[Samoht]

XXXX is obviously confused on camp rules, as when you are camping more than one, you do not automatically forfeit them when someone else shows up. You do have to forfeit one, it's just not up to the encroaching party to decide which. In this case, they could have moved to the static spawn and taken that camp since you insisted on grabbing this one.

Otherwise, FTE.

[fadetree]

Right that's if it's not FTE...thats what he is asking, is the whole island FTE or not?

[Troxx]

Yeah I understand that Samoht - that is a well established rule. The clarification I'm looking for is more with regards to this island specifically. Is it all FTE or are single mobs campable?

As I said in post one - the dispute on the player to player level ended amicably. Both parties are just curious so as to avoid breaking rules.

[Pokesan]

you better watch out bud, i got an itchy finger on the petition key

[Uuruk]

I think Agnarr would be a good option for XXXX.

[Maliant]

Seafuries are all FTE.

[Lhancelot]

Going to give you my opinion on this stuff. If you have any thought that the guy will petition, you need to send a petition in.

If you try to handle it yourself, by ignoring him, or perhaps taking mobs which you clearly are camping but he engages first, this will be seen as KSing by some guides and you will get suspended.

It doesn't matter you have the "camp" or spawn spot a mob is spawning at. If the guy engages first, and you KS him and he petitions you, some guides will suspend you with zero investigation or thought on the matter.

Normally I don't like petitionquest, but eating a 7 day suspension because some chump petitioned you first sucks. It also really sucks when you get no opportunity to explain your side of the story, and this is where your petition can help you.

[loramin]

Is it all FTE or are single mobs campable?

My understanding, based on multiple past GM responses, is that the answer is both. Whenever a zone is "FTE" (as almost all outdoor zones are) it does not mean you can't camp mobs in it: after all, the Ancient Cyclops is right next door to Seafury island, and he's camped 24/7.

In an FTE zone (or anywhere really) each player can camp exactly one spawn point. If no one else is around they can camp more of course, but then the usual "if someone comes along you have to share" rule comes in to effect.

Normally this isn't relevant on Seafury Island because no one is bored enough to camp a single spawn, but technically you could. If you did and someone took your spawn you could legitimately report them ... IF you were there waiting by the spawn point when they took it and you were only camping that one mob.

[branamil]

When someone petitioned me, LLANDRIS showed up and said, you can only claim one spawn that is not claimed. Any spawn that is not claimed is FTE.

[Sancta]

Seafury island is FTE on the basis of

Article 16
Clause 369a. sit down and shutup

Normally you can camp one spawn all to yourself no matter what's happening around you, kind of like a safe space. The OP post is just an example of trying to lawyer quest in a place where it's generally considered FTE even if a seafury spawns in one spot, it doesn't move, is considered a single spawn, you were sitting near the spawn, you claimed that one spot all to yourself, and announced it to the world while screaming at the top of your lungs in OOC while petitioning a GM to save you from another FTE'd seafury from under your nose. Can you claim it and petition GM according to the rules? Yes, you'd be in the right according to the server rules, and seems fine for a named or unique mob that you've been camping, but seafuries spawn every 6 mins and there are many of them. This would be saying "no" to the play nice policy in many ways so just go grab another seafury while adhering to article 16 clause 369a.

AC in OOT is an entirely different kind of spawn.

[thebutthat]

I've always treated the island as FTE. If someone is sitting right on top of the spawn, I'll give them a few seconds to engage, but if it starts wandering, pew pew pew mine.

[Triiz]

Llandris clarified his statement later in the thread you quoted from.

Wrong. I guess I should have been more clear in my explanation. If you are sitting on a single spawn point, then sure, you can "camp" it. But if you and another player are camping 1 spawn point each, and fighting over a 3rd spawn point (that is not camped by someone), that NPC then becomes FTE. Don't expect to sit on multiple spawn points and claim it as a camp, you get 1 spawn point, the rest are FTE.

[Troxx]

In this example I had been doing both spawns. Hilltop was down and I was just floating above tree spawn sitting/waiting when a second party arrived and just decided to sit closer to what I was already waiting on. As I said, for this instance the whole argument is irrelevant as you can't claim something that someone else has been clearing and is literally sitting there waiting to spawn. A traditional camp dispute, as pointed out by Sam early on in this thread starts with the decision on the part of the original camper to commit to one spawn and voluntarily relinquish the other. Point is a full discussion takes place between vying parties (and not seconds before it spawns) before the newly arrived party just considers it their camp as they are sitting closest. As with this case, time stamps just demonstrate an attempt to kill a mob already enganged (albeit about a 1 second difference in who aggro'd first. This scenario ended well. 2 petitions went in with mine specifically requesting no punishment or official warning should the other party be at fault - I just wanted clarification. Afterwards we talked it out well and moved on but were both left wondering what the real rule for the area is.

I'm aware of how camp disputes work in general, I and others have simply seen a longstanding track record of no mob on the island is 'campable' and the whole place is FTE. If it's deemed that spawns (single) can be camped then great. If not - that's fine too. I just want to make sure the rules aren't vague. In the case of 'XXXX' - that person felt justified in trying to out dps me. I don't want the XXXX's out there to get in trouble for trying to defend what they feel is right - nor do I want the "me's" that find themselves in my situation to get in trouble because the status quo has always been FTE - only to learn after the fact that mobs can be camped and they just snagged a mob that was claimed.

Both of us just want to know the rules and expectations so as to not violate said rules.

-Is the island all FTE?
-Are single spawns campable on seafury island?
-If single spawns are campable are you limited to claiming just one (I suspect yes)?
-If limited to camping just one, do you void your claim to that one camp if you run off to pull another mob (or mobs) but are back to your 'camp' in time to engage by the time it spawns again?

[loramin]

-Is the island all FTE?
-Are single spawns campable on seafury island?
-If single spawns are campable are you limited to claiming just one (I suspect yes)?
-If limited to camping just one, do you void your claim to that one camp if you run off to pull another mob (or mobs) but are back to your 'camp' in time to engage by the time it spawns again?

Dude, why do you keep repeating the same questions when multiple people have already answered you? There's even quotes from a guide above, specifically for Seafury island, which directly answering your questions; what more could you possibly want from a response?

Wrong. I guess I should have been more clear in my explanation. If you are sitting on a single spawn point, then sure, you can "camp" it. But if you and another player are camping 1 spawn point each, and fighting over a 3rd spawn point (that is not camped by someone), that NPC then becomes FTE. Don't expect to sit on multiple spawn points and claim it as a camp, you get 1 spawn point, the rest are FTE.

[Troxx]

Dude, why do you keep repeating the same questions when multiple people have already answered you (and when all of this has already been answered in multiple previous threads prior to your's)? There's even quotes from a guide above, addressing this exact issue on Seafury island!

Either you don't care about people's responses (in which case, why are you asking the questions), or you're waiting for a staff member .... but it's not like the staff is going to respond to every single person's Seafury thread personally.

Deep breaths Loramin. Try not to get so worked up.

Even aspects of your own responses across multiple threads in the past have been inconsistent and vague at times. GM responses have likewise been inconsistent with everything from "that island is FTE" to follow-on statements that under certain circumstances you can claim a camp.

[loramin]

Deep breaths Loramin. Try not to get so worked up.

Even aspects of your own responses across multiple threads in the past have been inconsistent and vague at times. GM responses have likewise been inconsistent with everything from "that island is FTE" to follow-on statements that under certain circumstances you can claim a camp.

Nobody's worked up, but it is irritating when someone keeps repeating "answer me", and then people do answer them, and still they keep asking the exact same question.

As I said, you've already gotten lots of responses, including one that's as canonical as you're going to get: a guide answering your exact question in the exact same zone. If that won't satisfy you, what will?

Saying what you're looking for will be a lot more productive then repeating the same (already-answered) questions ... so what exactly is it that you are expecting to get that you haven't gotten from any of the previous responses?

[maskedmelon]

1. default for all spawns is FTE
2. having secured FTE, you may camp spawn points.
3. if someone else shows up, they get one (you choose which one you keep) and everything else is FTE.

in your particular situation he/she/it should have asked which you wanted to keep, or you should have told he/she/it which you were keeping ^^

[Itap]

You literally had a response a month ago from a Guide on your exact same scenario. What else do you want?

[Triiz]

-Is the island all FTE?
Yes if no one is sitting on single spawns.

-Are single spawns campable on seafury island?
Yes, there aren't special rules for seafury island. Single mobs are campable in any outdoor zone (see the thread you quoted where Cecily points this out to Llandris, and he responds with the quote I posted)

-If single spawns are campable are you limited to claiming just one (I suspect yes)?
Yes, you can compete for others if you don't leave your camp but you will be competing against the masses for those extras(Multiple places you can sit on a spawn and grab at least one other without moving)

-If limited to camping just one, do you void your claim to that one camp if you run off to pull another mob (or mobs) but are back to your 'camp' in time to engage by the time it spawns again?
Yes, again there aren't special rules for Seafury island
You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp -- P99 play nice policy


In my experience, the regulars of Seafury island know all of this. I haven't been out there much lately, but when I used to be out there in the mornings I would sit on a single spawn while I'm doing other things and chuck javelins at any others I might see passing by that are in range, very rarely have I had anyone try to steal the spawn I was sitting on.

[Troxx]

Thanks for replies guys. :)

[Troxx]

When you start typing like this its probably time to turn the computer off and go outside and see what you're missing.

16,398 (not counting the 10,000 RNF posts) posts what?

[Tenlaar]

Average of 6 per day apparently.

Six per day...every single day...for seven and a half years...

All I'm saying is you seem overimmersed and could probably use some fresh air.

[Tenlaar]

Actually it's 6 and a half years, is there something wrong with your fingers?

No, but something is wrong with your math, since six posts a day for six and a half years would be 14,232 posts. Your post count would be posting six times a day for seven and a half years, which is 16,422 posts.

Maybe stop using your fingers to do math?

[Lhancelot]

When you start typing like this its probably time to turn the computer off and go outside and see what you're missing.

lol. There's probably some truth to this.

[Troxx]

Update:

Sirken apparently confirms you can claim a single spawn point in AC island if you want.

Unknown variables: can you pull other mobs and hold said "camp"

Thanks for input guys

[Lojik]

The answer is yes...you have to put covers on all TPS reports

[loramin]

Unknown variables: can you pull other mobs and hold said "camp"

I recommend researching the answer: try to pull as many Seafuries as you can while petitioning anyone who touches your one "camped" Seafury, then report your results back here.

[Lojik]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89449

[Natolx]

I have a screenshot of the chat message if you'd like. You can inspect the pixels to see if its legit?