What do parties favor more - SK or Warrior?

[wisefool]

I'm about to start a fresh new character (gonna roll with Iksar) and can't decide whether or not I should go SK or Warrior. I already know the things how SK has more utility and better for solo compared to a warrior. One of the biggest things I may want to play a warrior is simply because they can dual wield and don't have to worry about mana what so ever. But most importantly... which tank do parties usually favor more of the 2? I always love playing the role of being a tank, in which a tank is best when used when in a party. I also just love being a needed class. But I rather be the more favored class for a party and not just simply " needed ".

Also, I still have never even started P99. Still waiting on my copy of Titanium which won't arrive til next week. I'm not 100% sure what to expect yet depending on the current expansions on P99 that will have effects and more/less benefits towards a SK or Warrior at the moment.

[username17]

Gear dependent classes such as Warrior and Rogues are the absolute toughest to start off with.
It's doable. But it won't be a super smooth road. I started here as a Rogue and it sucked until I started getting Planar gear.

I don't think people really care what tank class you are in a group (not anymore since class XP Penalties were lifted). They're mainly going to care about your ability to hold aggro and survive.
If you're starting new you might want to go with a hybrid which has spells to counter the fact that your gear is going to suck. That way, with spells, you can actually hold aggro. Then you only have to worry about the 'surviving the aggro' part.
Either way stick with it. This server is awesome.

[Jimjam]

Being far away from EC mart may be a little disadvantage for a fresh warrior. That said you might be able to rotquest a Forest Giant Hammer (http://wiki.project1999.com/Forest_Giant_Hammer)in Warslik's wood when you first get started, and replace it in your teens with a Iksar Berserker Club (http://wiki.project1999.com/Iksar_Berserker_Club) from grouping in Kurn's Tower (pretty much the best weapon you can find in the field for many many levels).

If you don't want to risk visiting the giant castle early on Tarnished Shan Tok (http://wiki.project1999.com/Tarnished_Shan%60Tok) is good enough to 1 hit kill level 1 mobs, which are xp until you hit level 5.


Don't worry about the surviving part; work on your Curscale Armor (http://wiki.project1999.com/Curscale_Armor) for the first few levels. In kurns you can replace it with reinforced rhino (http://wiki.project1999.com/Reinforced_Rhino_Armor), ruined scaled (http://wiki.project1999.com/Ruined_Scaled_Armor) and Burynai Hide (http://wiki.project1999.com/Burynai_Hide_Armor).

Fashion-wise Shestar's Scaled Coif (http://wiki.project1999.com/Shestar%27s_Scaled_Coif_Quest) gives a nice looking hat.

Speaking of Quests, in addition to Curscale Armor and Shestar's Scaled Coif Large Scorpion Claws (http://wiki.project1999.com/Geozite_Tool_Quest) are going to be worth gathering up for xp.

Xp-wise, once you are bored of killing the yard trash, move on to the spiderling caves in Field of Bone or the pit, and then into Kurn's Tower. When you outlevel Kurn's Tower, you can try the giant fort in Warslik's Woods or Lake of Ill Omen for groups, both of which can drop items which will be useful to you.

[Troxx]

Most groups in a vacuum will prefer SK for aggro lock at all levels of gameplay that don't require defensive discipline.

Warriors do the job well enough but generating threat requires gear/money. A sk with a set of banded (or naked) will be able to function well from the start. A brand new warrior is staring down the daunting hurdle of acquiring haste and good quality weapons (neither are cheap for a new guy) before threat is more manageable.

The *best* group tank in my opinion is the paladin, but you didn't list that class. Aggro is simple. Paladins also have group utility out the ears (lull, root, stuns, heals, buffs) with 90% Rez being the cherry on top late game. They lack the mobility of the SK and no feign death (which is amazing). If I had to pick between equally well geared tanks, I'd opt pal > sk > warrior for routine content and war > pal > sk for tough things that defensive would be useful for.

At the extremes of raid gear I'd probably go warrior for all as nobody will die regardless, aggro is trivial with high end weapons and 41% haste, and warrior dps is head and shoulders better than knight.

[Jimjam]

With Velious out it is so much easier now for rangers to have 'enough' ac and to build up their hp. As such I actually think a reasonably geared ranger could be a contender the best group tank for non-defensive disc content.

Dps of warrior, most of the spell utility of paladin, can take hits sufficiently well now. Whats not to love?!

[gildor]

monk imo :)

[Samoht]

Most groups in a vacuum will prefer SK for aggro lock at all levels of gameplay

This is no longer applicable at level 55 when Warriors gain the ability to kick-bash. It makes a huge difference for mob control, and knights become basically useless from then on due to their lack of DPS contribution.

[Troxx]

This is no longer applicable at level 55 when Warriors gain the ability to kick-bash. It makes a huge difference for mob control, and knights become basically useless from then on due to their lack of DPS contribution.

Kick-bash aside, knight will still have an absolute aggro lock advantage at the start of fights where it really matters. Very little content out there favors warrior survivability and few groups out there rely on the dps contribution of the person filling the 'tank' job.

[Samoht]

few groups out there rely on the dps contribution of the person filling the 'tank' job.

Man, you must have never PUGed on this server.

[Naethyn]

Warrior if you plan to do anything at 60. Also, warrior dps is top tier here. Warrior gets weaker and weaker up till 49. At 50 they can start using good proc weapons (slow, lifetap), 52 is evasive, and at 55 kicks stun. A 60 warrior with gear can basically run around anywhere on this server without a real threat of anything being able to kill you. Also, warriors can do a ton of spells here via procs and clicks. Basically become rangers (minus track) in utility.

[Sage Truthbearer]

At 55 the enchanter in your KC pug with a hasted, charmed drolvarg is going to put out like ~200 dps by himself. The contribution of a Warrior's dps compared to a Knight's is not going to be noticeable by a single person. What's actually going to help that pug be extremely efficient is the Paladin who has utility that a Warrior simply doesn't bring to the table in group settings: like instant snap aggro, front-line CCs with root parking, stuns, heals, buffs, LoH in an oh shit moment, etc.

[wisefool]

Thank you everyone for responding and sharing your valuable input. Another question to ask as well... On P99 server, which class is more common/rare between the SK and Warrior? I'd also be leaning more towards the class that there are less of. I rather stay away from the tank class that there are already too many of.

[Samoht]

First: assume all groups have well-played enchanters
Second: forget warriors have half the perks you mention for paladins
Conclusion: Paladins R gud

[Caiu]

At 55 the enchanter in your KC pug with a hasted, charmed drolvarg is going to put out like ~200 dps by himself. The contribution of a Warrior's dps compared to a Knight's is not going to be noticeable by a single person. What's actually going to help that pug be extremely efficient is the Paladin who has utility that a Warrior simply doesn't bring to the table in group settings: like instant snap aggro, front-line CCs with root parking, stuns, heals, buffs, LoH in an oh shit moment, etc.
Delusional. Knights on a good day put out half the dps of a warrior and every bit counts no matter the group make up. There is a time and place for Hybrids certainly but until they are placed on the same damage tables as warriors the only thing they have going for them is snap agro.

[Sage Truthbearer]

The only thing delusional is how greatly you are exaggerating the utility a warrior's melee dps vs SK/pal in group settings. There's a reason the overwhelming majority of PUGs prefer the tank role be filled by a knight, it's because group content is for the most part steamrolled and the damage output of a warrior vs sk/pal in those situations simply does not make a significant difference in group efficiency. What does make a significant difference in efficiency is being able to quickly and reliably generate aggro (aka the primary role of a tank in group) which SK/pal excel at and Warriors struggle with in comparison. Not to mention Paladins having an extremely versatile toolkit in groups that a war doesn't without the aid of clickies. It's not even close, Paladins are superior group tanks in every single way imaginable.

[Naethyn]

The worse the group is the better a paladin is. The better a group is the better a warrior is. It is not accurate to say paladins are better group tanks in every single way imaginable. There are many scenarios (50+) that a warrior is going to do better.

[Caiu]

Sounds like you are trying as desperately as you can to justify your subpar class. I'd take a well geared and well played warrior in most groups over a Paladin. Unless I was playing my monk in which case none of those classes would be tanking.

[Samoht]

Paladins are superior group tanks in every single way imaginable.

Maybe. But only below level 55. It's not even close after that. With DPS, disciplines, and kick-bash, Warriors are infinitely better after that.

[Spyder73]

Maybe. But only below level 55. It's not even close after that. With DPS, disciplines, and kick-bash, Warriors are infinitely better after that.

Yea but SK fashion quest is pretty dope

[Jimjam]

Something I've remembered is that poor aggro is more of a kunark era problem for warriors.

With Velious out for so long the weapons market is much more friendly to warriors now, no longer needing to compromise on ratio or proc.

[Troxx]

Sounds like you are trying as desperately as you can to justify your subpar class. I'd take a well geared and well played warrior in most groups over a Paladin. Unless I was playing my monk in which case none of those classes would be tanking.

Eh ... I don't have a pony in this race.

Sage is correct.

[Danth]

How often does a well-geared Warrior do leveling-type groups? Heck, a well-geared anything? That's a meaningless discussion of hypotheticals. Folks sitting in north Temple Veeshan gear aren't exactly filling up the LFG lines in Karnor or City of Mist. The Warriors you'll get during the leveling phase will mostly be typical for that environment: Mediocre equipment and largely unable to hold aggro with any reliability.

In response to the original post: Shadow Knights serve well for leveling, and small-group (duo/trio/etc) activities at the level cap. They're not a key raid class. Warriors are the opposite, functioning only poorly in typical leveling groups but they're a critical raiding class. Most pick-up groups are happy to have any kind of tank, as the archtype isn't particularly common, but given a choice they tend by and large to prefer tanks who can hold aggro reliably, meaning knight types. No tank class shines through all facets of the game, so pick a class that suits what you like doing most.

Danth

[Samoht]

How often does a well-geared Warrior do leveling-type groups? Heck, a well-geared anything? That's a meaningless discussion of hypotheticals. Folks sitting in north Temple Veeshan gear aren't exactly filling up the LFG lines in Karnor or City of Mist. The Warriors you'll get during the leveling phase will mostly be typical for that environment: Mediocre equipment and largely unable to hold aggro with any reliability.

You don't need ToV gear. Thurg quest armor, WESS, and Frostbringer should suffice perfectly well.

[branamil]

Levels 1-59: by far prefer a knight for their aggro abilities. I would absolutely hate grouping with warriors in xp groups.

Level 60: at max level warrior is king for tanking. Knights don't really have a purpose for most raids. Pretty sad really

[Bummey]

Unless the target is a raid boss I will always prefer a knight tank over a warrior.

Level 60: at max level warrior is king for tanking. Knights don't really have a purpose for most raids. Pretty sad really

nah.

[skarlorn]

Can't get aggro with ur warrior? Get someone to root the mob you're tanking. Stand closer than everyone else.

Youll maintain aggro and at level 60 won't have a useless knight

[Danth]

I never quite know whether you're serious or not, but root doesn't really work for aggro control (and in fact is often counter-productive) against the types of things--tough, highly resistant creatures--that can actually threaten a group of level 60 players. That works for karnor or sebilis trash though.

Danth

[skarlorn]

Yeah but at level sixty, your warrior has good aggro tools. That was a suggestion for the levelling curve as an under-geared warrior struggling to maintain aggro.

At sixty, it's easy enough to snap aggro with taunt, kickstun, and auto attack. If you're desperate, a click of the root net!

[24kanthony]

Nobody seems to ever factor in the HP that is saved and extra DPS done by everyone else with the SK life tap and stat taps.
When I tap AC, its impossible to calculate the extra DPS everyone is doing on every mob because of me.

[rajax]

For the 1-59 leveling game, parties will favor people they know and have proven they know their class, how threat works, how CC works and is broken, know the area and the enemies-their spells or special abilities and there for which ones to prioritize.

They will ignore people who get a reputation for bad play, loot stealing, rudeness, and/or general unwillingness to learn from mistakes. Or put simply- act like an ass and get people killed you can expect to spend a long time soloing. Your reputation is a hell of a lot more important than your class. That's still mostly true even when you talk about raids.

I would say generally speaking there is a slight bias based on your level of gear- especially for warriors since it makes such a bigger difference in your performance. But it is in no way like the bad old days before the class xp penalty was patched out when an Sk, Pal, or ranger were almost pariah-like to casual groups that did not know you.

There is situational bias- like a party with no CC might really need a sk or monk to feign pull or trust a paladin to lull pull. A loaded group however might prefer the much improved dps of a geared warrior. Root doesn't solve all the warriors aggro issues but 9 times out of 10 it really is all you need.

Personally I would choose the sk or paladin for a new player with no help on starting gear. That's partly my bias as I just find the EQ warrior boring to play, but having spells does make you more self-sufficient and able to compensate when things go bad in your average pick up group.

[Troxx]

Kick stun doesn't generate a whole lot of aggro.

[Sonderbeast]

Sk has a great progression, and is very rewarding early. Warrior builds up over time and as you gain personal value. So early game, SK is best, fun, and does their job well with or without gear. After about 50, warriors will start to outclass you if they have any gear worth mentioning. I have both an SK and Warrior Iksar, soon to hit 60 with the warrior and I am very happy with my choice.


If you like to Dual Wield, you can probably save up enough money to get some banded armor for cheap to get a pair of Wakizashi of the Frozen skies for around 600 plat each by level 30. They proc at 20 and should give you solid aggro until Ykesha War clubs proc. Then work on your Coldain faction and get Thurgadin gear you'd be solid on your way to 60.

[Dulu]

Monk or SK. Avoid Warrior if you're just starting.

Personally, I suggest going a caster class as your first toon.

[Troxx]

If you like to Dual Wield, you can probably save up enough money to get some banded armor for cheap to get a pair of Wakizashi of the Frozen skies for around 600 plat each by level 30. They proc at 20 and should give you solid aggro until Ykesha War clubs proc. Then work on your Coldain faction and get Thurgadin gear you'd be solid on your way to 60.

Wrapped Entropy Serpent Spine procs at level one and has more or less the strongest aggro proc in the game (estimated 1600+ hate per proc). All of the concerns about problems the blind proc might cause are quickly eclipsed by the fact that nobody with half a brain cell could possibly out-aggro you once it fires. While technically possible to over-aggro a single proc of that weapon, it would take enough asinine effort to intentionally steal aggro that any resultant shenanigans are no longer to be considered the fault of the warrior.

A single WESS proc is stronger than malo + slow + debuff. Especially at low levels - once you get the first proc aggro is locked -- period. At higher levels, people should know how to play well enough that it should never be a problem. The biggest issues facing this weapon are in a raid based scenario. In those situations, a warrior shouldn't swing WESS unless they are the one that needs to have aggro and is expected to have it.

[Kelor]

Patch here http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5782 will alter knight dps.
That could be a while off yet though.

[Lhancelot]

Patch here http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5782 will alter knight dps.
That could be a while off yet though.

Soon™

[Sonderbeast]

Wrapped Entropy Serpent Spine procs at level one and has more or less the strongest aggro proc in the game (estimated 1600+ hate per proc). All of the concerns about problems the blind proc might cause are quickly eclipsed by the fact that nobody with half a brain cell could possibly out-aggro you once it fires. While technically possible to over-aggro a single proc of that weapon, it would take enough asinine effort to intentionally steal aggro that any resultant shenanigans are no longer to be considered the fault of the warrior.

A single WESS proc is stronger than malo + slow + debuff. Especially at low levels - once you get the first proc aggro is locked -- period. At higher levels, people should know how to play well enough that it should never be a problem. The biggest issues facing this weapon are in a raid based scenario. In those situations, a warrior shouldn't swing WESS unless they are the one that needs to have aggro and is expected to have it.

I was coming from the perspective of a cost effective aggro for a new warrior. I know WESS is good, but don't expect to get 4k to buy one until you're level 45 and saving every cp.

[Lhancelot]

Good groups don't care what tank class they get. Bad groups want a SK or pally.

[Spyder73]

Monk or SK. Avoid Warrior if you're just starting.

Personally, I suggest going a caster class as your first toon.

Monks make EXTREMELY poor tanks unless your group is a bit over leveled for the camp, you have a shaman slowing (honestly anyone can tank then), you are twinked out the wazzoo, or you are max level.

If OP makes a monk thinking he can tank naked he is going to be in for a rude awakening. Level

[Troxx]

Monks make EXTREMELY poor tanks unless your group is a bit over leveled for the camp, you have a shaman slowing (honestly anyone can tank then), you are twinked out the wazzoo, or you are max level.

If OP makes a monk thinking he can tank naked he is going to be in for a rude awakening. Level

Sorry - that's just not true. Comparably geared a monk will take less damage than pretty much all other classes except for warrior. This holds true for most all gear levels ... from cured silk all the way up to raid gear. 50+ they won't have the massive hp pool of a plate tank, but they make up for it in taking less damage over time.

The challenging part is aggro management - but relatively cheap high quality ratio weapons make threat via melee dps viable at the low end. As you get to the 50+ aspect of the game, weapons like AC and Tstaff give monks a viable means of generating extra aggro without sacrificing dps.

[Jimjam]

Monks make EXTREMELY poor tanks unless your group is a bit over leveled for the camp, you have a shaman slowing (honestly anyone can tank then), you are twinked out the wazzoo, or you are max level.

If OP makes a monk thinking he can tank naked he is going to be in for a rude awakening. Level

A fresh start monk might do well to start their adventuring career in the Guk area, netted/woven/mesh is a great progression of armor in terms of AC/weight. Many fresh start ogre/troll warriors wear this into level 20 and tank find. An equivalently geared monk will avoid damage significantly better than these.

There are a few cheap high ac low weight items available in EC too. IIRC the fine silk turban and azure sleeves both go for mere dozens of plat. Targishin's mask is a little more pricey, but makes a great AC pad also.

Of course a fresh monk probably wouldn't know these tips, which is why I am sharing them here for consideration.

[Lhancelot]

Warriors are always more fun than SKs. Warriors are ambidextrous which comes in handy at any party because everyone loves to see what ambidextrous people can do!

SKs are always brooding and going on about death and stuff no one enjoys that kind of guy.

Go warrior for maximum fun at ANY party!