Level based weapon caps

[Kelor]

Haynar: Implemented class specific level based weapon damage caps. Thanks Demonstar55 from EQEmu.

Can anyone tell me what this actually does?

[Triiz]

P99 staff never specified, but Demonstar55 said this table was accurate if p99 staff implemented it exactly the same as he did.

so if I'm reading this code right the max dmg on any weapon classes can use by level are:


Level <10

Caster - 6
Priest - 9
All Else -10

Level 10-19

Caster - 10
Priest - 12
All Else -14

Level 20-29

Caster - 12
Priest - 20
All Else -30

Level 30-39

Caster - 18
Priest - 26
All Else -60

Level 40+

Caster - 40
Priest - 80
All Else -200

[Doctor Jeff]

On p99, It used to go up 1 per level starting at 20 and comes off completely at 30

[Rygar]

My IFS hits over 200 at level 60, so not sure how accurate the below is. Not sure if the '200' does not include damage bonus.

I heard in another thread folks mentioning Shovel of the Harvest hitting in the 300s, so not sure what is up with those values.

I know it says any weapon, but seems like there should be another table for 2h weapons, below maybe only 1hers (knight 1h weapons different?).

On my enchanter (currently level 44), my Smoldering Brand doesn't hit for over 18 unless I'm buffed (maybe saw a 19 value in there a few times). Always assumed it capped for casters at 2x weapon damage, no bonus. His 1hb skill is maxed as is offense. Haven't tried a higher damage weapon (such as 2hb) to see if he can exceed a hit of 40.

[Triiz]

My IFS hits over 200 at level 60, so not sure how accurate the below is. Not sure if the '200' does not include damage bonus.


My understanding is that it is 200 base damage, not 200 total dmg. Since Haynar specifically credited Demostar55 for the help I doubt it is much different than what Demonstar55 says it is, but that's just an assumption.

I.e. a lvl 25 shaman twinked with a granite face grinder will have a weapon that is actually 20/36, not 29/36.

Yes, and those tables you just listed were there in kunark (at least I could verify) and changed with the release of like OoW I think. Either way, those were the tables for very long. It's just an anti-twink measure.

[Rygar]

Even if base damage of 200 is cap on 2hb, seems off. My OT hammer hits for around 58 I think, so even if damage bonus is 50 (seems high), that would mean no one could swing over 250.

Any high end raiders here swinging a shovel that can verify max hit without damage disciplines? Even a Tantor's Tusk wielder.

[Triiz]

Sorry my EQ terminology sucks, I mean weapon damage. Not base damage without damage bonus. Since there aren't any 200dmg weapons in the game, it would be a non-issue for high level melees.

For context:

not sure what all of them are ..but my 26 troll shaman went from hitting for 90 max with my 2hander to now 52 max ...pretty huge difference

A priest hitting for 52 at level 26 with a 20dmg (theoretically) weapon seems right to me. Haynar then quoted that^ post and said

Yes. Some classes hit for less. And instead of caps at just 10 and 20, there are now ones at 10, 20, 30. & 40.


Again, this is just my interpretation from reading that thread, I'm far from an expert on this stuff.

[Lobus]

remember the hit damage is different from the weapon damage. i.e. a jade mace is 9 base dmg but will hit max for for more based on the following formula:

(2 * Weapon_Base) + Bonus_Modifier + STR Modifier

the values I pulled out of the code are the caps to "Weapon_Base". I don't think there are any weapons in game with a value even close to 200 so the cap is irrelevant to melees at high levels. This only matters at low levels using high dmg weapons. I assume this was put in to avoid the 1st hit kill situation on low level mobs (i.e. a lvl 8 with a high dmg weap hitting for 300 will basically kill everything level appropriate in one hit, or can easily joust and kill in a few rounds - even more reason why the caster and priests have lower caps since they would benefit more from this)

[Rygar]

Even saying Weapon_Base seems off, to my knowledge there aren't any 60dmg weapons either (the 30-39 table value listed is 60), so seems redundant.

I suspect this is a max calculated damage a weapon can do without Bonus or STR modifier. Even so, seems then that P99 isn't using that 200 value on high end weapons. Could be wrong, but if I'm using my OT hammer as ceiling for the bonus / str modifiers that would mean no weapon could possibly hit for over 246 without crits or disciplines (possible exception being Tantor's Tusk which would have a higher damage bonus after 2hb patch, bonus being based off weapon delay).

I'm skeptical of that formula anyways, read up on the wiki and some more info.

For Level 60 only:
Mod = (Weapon Skill + Strength - 75) / 100
Main Hand Bonus = (Player Level - 25) / 3 (states this may not be accurate for 2hb, perhaps too low)
Max Damage = (Mod * Weapon Damage) + Main Hand Bonus

Plugging in my IFS I show the following:
Mod = (252 skill + 255 str - 75) / 100 = 4.32
Main Hand Bonus = (60 - 25) / 3 = 11.66
Max Damage = (4.32 x 38) + 11.66 = 176 max hit

Seems obvious that I'm well exceeding 176 max hit, so perhaps some damage bonus issues there. I could see the base damage of my mod + weapon dmg being accurate (4.32 x 38 = 164... pretty in line with the table). This would give room for higher damage weapons to have a higher hit, albeit only +36 damage per swing seems pitiful (a travesty if true for tantor's tusk, faster delay weapons would easily out damage it, and even lower damage weapons should reach the same ceiling as it).

I still pose the question to you high end monks out there, what are you actually hitting with Bo Staff or Shovel after patch?

[Triiz]

Even saying Weapon_Base seems off, to my knowledge there aren't any 60dmg weapons either (the 30-39 table value listed is 60), so seems redundant.

But Demonstar55 confirmed it was indeed Weapon Base and taken from Live. That doesn't mean Haynar implemented it exactly the same, but that's the Live formula from Kunark onward according to Demonstar55. If Haynar didn't use the exact same values, I can't think of why he would credit Demonstar55 in the patch notes and drastically alter values that were confirmed from Live for this era.


I suspect this is a max calculated damage a weapon can do without Bonus or STR modifier.

I really doubt a level 26 shaman would have a +32 dmg bonus even with max strength(hitting for 52 max at lvl 26).

Edit: Forgot to add the other Demonstar55 post

I didn't read all 17 pages, but I didn't see any answer about the damage cap changes. Now I can't say for certain how exactly haynar implemented them for p99, but they should be functionally identical to how I did for EQEmu :P

Basically, the base damage on weapons is capped. (It shouldn't cap archery/throwing or any skill attacks AFAIK)

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob/d043c38f71eef1436a8fc11b85e09b5a1480f7f4/zone/attack.cpp#L1092

Those are based on live client, I checked several older clients and they stopped at the level >= 40 branch (line 1108)

This shouldn't nerf anything, it MAY have an effect on twinks though, but I don't think there is anything hitting the new caps that weren't hitting the old, incorrect caps.

[Spyder73]

I have Facesmasher and when I use Inner Flame I start hitting in the 400-500 range...200-300 on normal attacks is the norm...But I am also a level 60 monk with 255 strength

[skarlorn]

tryng to pick up chicks on server chat again Spyder?

SPOILER:

It's working

[lctucker2999]

Plugging in my IFS I show the following:
Mod = (252 skill + 255 str - 75) / 100 = 4.32
Main Hand Bonus = (60 - 25) / 3 = 11.66
Max Damage = (4.32 x 38) + 11.66 = 176 max hit

I believe main hand bonus is actually added to the base weapon damage. So (38+11)*4.32=211 max hit. So that's why a lower ratio, with low delay can actually turn into a better weapon that one with a higher base ratio.

E.g. 10/20 (.50) would become 21/20 (1.05) and 15/25 (.60) would become (1.04)

Sorry I don't remember where I originally read this so I can't link or give credit. Also, this is not my own research but it seems accurate given the 200+ hits you were talking about.

[Zemus]

I believe main hand bonus is actually added to the base weapon damage. So (38+11)*4.32=211 max hit. So that's why a lower ratio, with low delay can actually turn into a better weapon that one with a higher base ratio.

E.g. 10/20 (.50) would become 21/20 (1.05) and 15/25 (.60) would become (1.04)

Sorry I don't remember where I originally read this so I can't link or give credit. Also, this is not my own research but it seems accurate given the 200+ hits you were talking about.

No. Don't spread misinformation please.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#Melee_Combat_and_Damage

As you can see, not all variables are known for p99 which is what the thread is trying to determine.

[Zemus]

Even saying Weapon_Base seems off, to my knowledge there aren't any 60dmg weapons either (the 30-39 table value listed is 60), so seems redundant.

I suspect this is a max calculated damage a weapon can do without Bonus or STR modifier. Even so, seems then that P99 isn't using that 200 value on high end weapons. Could be wrong, but if I'm using my OT hammer as ceiling for the bonus / str modifiers that would mean no weapon could possibly hit for over 246 without crits or disciplines (possible exception being Tantor's Tusk which would have a higher damage bonus after 2hb patch, bonus being based off weapon delay).

I'm skeptical of that formula anyways, read up on the wiki and some more info.

For Level 60 only:
Mod = (Weapon Skill + Strength - 75) / 100
Main Hand Bonus = (Player Level - 25) / 3 (states this may not be accurate for 2hb, perhaps too low)
Max Damage = (Mod * Weapon Damage) + Main Hand Bonus

Plugging in my IFS I show the following:
Mod = (252 skill + 255 str - 75) / 100 = 4.32
Main Hand Bonus = (60 - 25) / 3 = 11.66
Max Damage = (4.32 x 38) + 11.66 = 176 max hit

Seems obvious that I'm well exceeding 176 max hit, so perhaps some damage bonus issues there. I could see the base damage of my mod + weapon dmg being accurate (4.32 x 38 = 164... pretty in line with the table). This would give room for higher damage weapons to have a higher hit, albeit only +36 damage per swing seems pitiful (a travesty if true for tantor's tusk, faster delay weapons would easily out damage it, and even lower damage weapons should reach the same ceiling as it).

I still pose the question to you high end monks out there, what are you actually hitting with Bo Staff or Shovel after patch?

http://codepad.org/NjMM455H

Based on the code posted by Rogean the damage bonus of your Imbued Fighters staff is 18 until the Oct. 8, 2001 timeline.

((60 - 7) / 3) + 1

[Rygar]

Well, reading over the quoted post mentioning weapon tables may only potentially affecting twinking, perhaps it truely was just very high weapon base power caps (such as a monk equipping a 38/40 staff at level 1 essentially treats it as a 10/40 staff, a 14/40 at 10, 30/40 at 20, and finally proper 38/40 at 30). Perhaps the 60 and 200 weird caps were for plans on future expansions / progression.

With the Rogean code of an 18 dmg bonus on IFS, it seems more like the wiki damage calculation is either missing some info or P99 uses wrong / different formulas. Not sure what role ATK plays in the formula (wiki says it allows more max hits, but seems to leave out the formula, how does it work?).

Would be interested information diving for people's max hits in era on some weapons vs what we see on this box.

[lctucker2999]

No. Don't spread misinformation please.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#Melee_Combat_and_Damage

As you can see, not all variables are known for p99 which is what the thread is trying to determine.
Yep that is what I was thinking of, and clearly I mis-remembered what I had read. Thanks for the correction!