Velious Weapon Hate Chart??

[ScruffMacBuff]

I've stumbled across this chart a few times while researching warrior hate generation weapons : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwLk00fzuQQMdzhmdUFEendhdWs/edit

It's been a great resource for me so far as my guild (Auld Lang Syne) hasn't tackled a lot of velious stuff yet. I was wondering if anyone had done the leg work to create one of these charts that includes velious weapons as well. I'd like to figure out what I should work towards. For reference I'm using Scimitar of the Ykesha and Trochilic's Skean which will last me a good while I think.

[Troxx]

That chart isn't accurate. 1 poison counter is worth about 300 hate. Proc on blade of the black dragon eye is quoted at 750 hate - but the proc has 3 poison counters (900 hate) on top of the threat from the damage portion of the spell.

Velious aggro weapons outside of high high end raiding are basically limited to:

Wrapped Entropy Serpent Spine: 4 poison counters, blind, debuff

Infestation: 3 poison counters + very small damage

Frostbringer: DD + debuff

Of those three, WESS >> infestation >> frostbringer in terms of threat. The strength of the proc on WESS makes it arguably the best weapon for raw hate in the game - estimated at somewhere north of 1600 hate per proc.

[Jimjam]

Replace SSOY with a Frostbringe (faction up with giants and collect giant heads while doing so).

Or, when ALS is ready for DN crawls, find a WESS and/or Infestation.

[ScruffMacBuff]

If we ever get a frostbringer in ALS it will be a good ways away simply due to the faction needed. Tormax right? As far as Infestation goes, is Vilefang harder than the wiki makes him look? If not then we could certainly kill him if we made it down there, but the trip might be the hardest part.

[Triiz]

I'm also skeptical of the accuracy of that chart for this server. Rune III generates a lot of hate, but almost as much as Tepid Deeds? Anecdotally, just based on my experience casting both spells during fights as an Enchanter, I find that hard to believe.

If a WESS or Infestation isn't practical for you to obtain, the proc on Infestation is identical to Scorpikis Claw Impaler, although the ratio on the Impaler is a lot worse.

[Samoht]

If we ever get a frostbringer in ALS it will be a good ways away simply due to the faction needed. Tormax right?

Not that hard by farming dorf heads (https://wiki.project1999.com/Bvellos'_Bounty). Note: according to the wiki, this quest does not tank dorf faction, so you could potentially farm up hundreds of heads, then correct your dorf faction, and then turn the heads in (easier with sneak) and as a result be allied to both dorfs and giants.

As far as Infestation goes, is Vilefang harder than the wiki makes him look? If not then we could certainly kill him if we made it down there, but the trip might be the hardest part.

Vilefang is easy. It's even easier if you have more than one tank because off-tanking the adds was a lot easier than splitting them (lolblind). The hard parts are getting to his room and actually finding him up.

[ScruffMacBuff]

The chart was actually created for this server but before Velious launched, hence the lack of Velious era weapons.

It's hard to confirm the accuracy of the chart but it's at least close enough for a casual like myself. All they did for testing was attack until you got a proc and then had another individual swing until they took aggro back. So some of the numbers may be somewhat rough.

[Olarin]

I'd love to see an updated chart with all the Velious high end weapons added in and how they compare to the easier to obtain weapons in Velious and Kunark(mainly VP) weapons.

I'm constantly switching my weapon around now and trying to figure out what should be on my "must obtain" list going forward.


The hard parts for Vilefang are surviving the tunnel to get to him, and splitting the snakes. The actual fight is rather trivial.

As for giant faction... If you want to stay friendly with dwarves my route involved mass slaughter of nest dragons in Western Wastes. After enough time you'll get your Kromzek faction up. Once at that point you can farm on another character or buy dwarf heads to hand them and raise Kromrif and Tormax factions without dwarf faction ever being hurt. Although should note handing in a greater dragon head for a Frostbringer WILL hurt your Dain faction.

[Metalord]

Where would a Wavecrasher fall in this chart? I've heard a lot of mixed reviews. I'm currently using Infestation on MH and WESS on off. I've been thinking of getting a Wavecrasher or Blade of the Black Dragon eye to replace the Infestation due to Warriors cap Pierce at 240 skill. What would be the optimal threat set outside of ToV/VP?

[Legidias]

Tserrina's Whip in TOFS is great and easily obtainable

[Metalord]

Tserrina's Whip in TOFS is great and easily obtainable

I have a Tserrina's Whip, but the ratio is what holds that weapon back Legi. White dmg is a big part of sustained agro.

[Legidias]

Yes but per ALS, its much more quickly obtainable than getting tormax faction, delving deep into DN and hard camping snakes, or farming SG.

[ScruffMacBuff]

Yeah we actually have a key to the top floor of ToFS, but the one time I was able to wrangle a group to finish the climb up she was camped so we didn't even get her key.

I've also now been in on a Vilefang kill in DN but the bastard dropped two bracers and no Infestation.

Edit- The gap as far as how to acquire weapon upgrades from Kunark to Velious is pretty damn wide for tanks.

[Jimjam]

That's super unlucky, he normally drops 1, if not 2, infestation.

Knowing is half the battle though, when you have done the encounter once it suddenly becomes easy.

[ScruffMacBuff]

He's an easy kill for sure. We've got a couple 55+ monks to pull him but they've never done it before and finding him up without any idea of his spawn timer will be difficult. I'm certain we can get it though.

[Diogene]

Wavecrasher is over-rated, where does it fall hate wise ? 20% slow >500 ? Not sure

[Troxx]

Wavecrasher is way overrated. 9/19 is not a great ratio. The proc is not exceptionally strong aggro and the slow is 30% less than truncheon of doom and lasts 1/3 the duration. Additionally it's mainhand only which means you lock yourself out of using it when you need to toss a better weapon in primary hand for more umph. The only saving grace is that it's a 1 handed so you can pair it with another proc weapon ... and it's tradable.

Definitely not worth the price. If I owned one I honestly doubt I'd use it.

[ScruffMacBuff]

One if the flaws if the chart is that it assumes 255 dex which gives bad ratio/good proc weapons like Scorpikis Claw Impaler look better than it is in most situations.

My warrior only has like 114 dex unbuffed at 55 I think so better ratio weapons would pay off more than crazy good aggro procs.

[Samoht]

My warrior only has like 114 dex unbuffed at 55 I think so better ratio weapons would pay off more than crazy good aggro procs.

This is a non-issue at 55 if you ever group with Enchanters or Shamans, which are pretty much required for grouping at 55.

[7thGate]

Interesting. Breath of the Sea's a slow with no poison or disease counters. I have no idea how much aggro that would be; all the shaman and enchanter slows come with a bunch of counters that, as far as I know, produce most of the aggro.

[Jimjam]

Even without the counters Slow is a substantial chunk of aggro. The ranger primary epic, Earthcaller, has a slow + 20hp/tick dot proc, is a notorious aggro magnet.

[Samoht]

I don't think Wavecrasher is worth the cost. The slow is negligible, and there are better aggro weapons out there that are much more affordable.

[Troxx]

Even without the counters Slow is a substantial chunk of aggro. The ranger primary epic, Earthcaller, has a slow + 20hp/tick dot proc, is a notorious aggro magnet.

A single proc from frostbringer peels aggro from Turgurs slow. FB has a better ratio and costs practically nothing by comparison (vs Wavecrasher).

It's just a mediocre aggro weapon (locked into your main hand) that procs a negligible slow. Solo you're better off using Truncheon. In a group you're better off using any number of weapons that cost much less and bring more threat/dps to the table.

[Maschenny]

anyone try out poisoned whip from velks? It's supposed to add 5 poison counters on proc.

[Troxx]

It should be solid aggro over time but the ratio will make its proc-less aggro a liability at times.

WESS has only 4 counters but also blind and debuff.

FB should generate less aggro per proc but superior ratio and a *good enough* proc make it a favorite for me.

[Maschenny]

Also, do you know how proc resist aggro works? How do the weapons compare when thier procs are resisted?

[Legidias]

AFAIK resists dont matter, aggro happens based on potential (misses = count as full dmg aggro, slows, nukes, etc)

[Freakish]

Resists don't matter. For example, a willsapper still gives plenty of aggro if it is already slowed by a shaman.

[Ezrick]

Wavecrasher is way overrated. 9/19 is not a great ratio. The proc is not exceptionally strong aggro and the slow is 30% less than truncheon of doom and lasts 1/3 the duration. Additionally it's mainhand only which means you lock yourself out of using it when you need to toss a better weapon in primary hand for more umph. The only saving grace is that it's a 1 handed so you can pair it with another proc weapon ... and it's tradable.

Definitely not worth the price. If I owned one I honestly doubt I'd use it.

Borrowed one from a friend in Sky the other night, definitely not worth what he paid for it. WESS is still better.

On the other hand as a main hand weapon, while you cannot completely forget ratio, speed is much more important, so 19 delay is well up there. Again, not worth what I see them selling for, but it probably parses out pretty well. Trying to get my hands on an Infestation, all things considered it should be best obtainable main hand aggro weapon without a VP or highest-end Velious Raid when you consider both Proc and DPS aggro. 9/18 with the occasional 750 or 900 aggro boost (I've heard both) should be pretty nice.

[Troxx]

Infestation will be competitive with any raid dropped weapon (kunark or velious) for threat. At 60 infestation 9/18 eeks out over the 14/23 sword of the shissar from VP (also 3 poison counters). The benefit of velious raid weapons is limited to superior stats and a shift in the balance of where the aggro is coming from.

WESS: insane threat per proc, slower and worse ratio (mediocre melee threat)
Infestation: very strong proc, faster and better ratio (good melee threat)
Raid: I'd have to go back and double check but in general you are looking at nice stats, stellar ratio and mediocre to mildly good procs.

On paper, powerhouse procs will win by a large margin in the long run. In practice, we all know how fickle the RNG is and having very solid melee threat will yield consistently strong aggro.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the jump from infestation/WESS to raid/raid is probably not a global threat upgrade. Aggro generation is probably sidegrade to slight downgrade while threat consistency, dps, and stats are unilaterally upgrades.

I don't think the first true warrior optimized raid weapons really hit the scene until luclin.

[pasi]

Haven't touched P99 Velious outside of beta, but see Infestation/WESS getting reps.
With the THREAD (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127238) in 2013, I mentioned Chelaki Tail was going to be bee's knees in Velious since it was crazy aggro, fast, and easy to obtain. That doesn't seem to be the case though.

I don't remember when disease counters stopped giving bonus hate on live (it was prior to poison counters), but I thought it was during Luclin. Are SKs still spamming disease cloud for aggro or did they switch to clinging/fear/shadow-vortex already?

It should be right on par with Infestation with a higher aggro proc, 1 delay slower, but slashing over piercing.

Is it any good here?