AC vs hps for SK's Pallies, Warriors ?

[Snaggles]

My SK is only in the 20's at this point wearing full crustacean shell armor with silver chitin handwraps. For a tiny race that stuff has a ton of stamina and strength.

I hear AC is a bit broken on P99, maybe it's been proved more more theory but still. The STA to HP return ratio for knights isn't amazing at the low levels and from what I hear the AC of Crusty armor won't cut it for high level tanks due to being low AC.

Is it better go go full hps (rings, tattered mantle, etc) and as high AC as possible for the time being? Blood Ember is cheap with exception of the BP and leggings. Do you think that's best until Velious cultural or is Crusty armor actually not bad for mid 50's groups?

For record, I'm 99% a solo player and most the stuff is fear-kited. Figured I'd ask some opinions though :). Good to have a shopping list. Thx in advance!

Edit/context: On live I had a 65 SK. Raided in a mid-tier guild and had full Skyshrine and various luclin/pop pieces. Just don't see going that path again.

[dude]

my warrior went from banded (getting pummeled) to crafted (can solo 2 -3 brutes) at 28th level. I think the difference was AC they don't hit me as hard, and it was noticeable the second I upgraded.

But I am an Ogre so i have good HP and str to start. that said all 3 could spawn 2 times over before i kill them again. lots of HP

[maskedmelon]

1.23 And they come unto Him, wearing all manner of virilous accoutrement, their garb flaxen and weak.
1.25 But the lord thine God is merciful and he spake unto them, his tongue honeyed with love and good wine,
1.26 "Verily, no man hath known superior constitution than than he who of ignorance and frugality and with pride and good intent, clads himself in crustaceans discarded by the sea 1.27 "Whollsome are they for they are durable and brown of color."
1.28 "But know this: inexperience is the BANE of great stamina!"
1.29 "In the heat of action even the most staminous among you will fail to outlast his lessers with any significance."

The Masters Arms 1:23-29

[Legidias]

Even if they were equal, if youre soloing AC is better.

Why?

Downtime.

Take less dmg overall (even if your max hp is lower ) = less time to regen back to 100%

[skarlorn]

Even if they were equal, if youre soloing AC is better.

Why?

Downtime.

Take less dmg overall (even if your max hp is lower ) = less time to regen back to 100%

yeah, AC is bless'd.

[skarlorn]

1.23 And they come unto Him, wearing all manner of virilous accoutrement, their garb flaxen and weak.
1.25 But the lord thine God is merciful and he spake unto them, his tongue honeyed with love and good wine,
1.26 "Verily, no man hath known superior constitution than than he who of ignorance and frugality and with pride and good intent, clads himself in crustaceans discarded by the sea 1.27 "Whollsome are they for they are durable and brown of color."
1.28 "But know this: inexperience is the BANE of great stamina!"
1.29 "In the heat of action even the most staminous among you will fail to outlast his lessers with any significance."

The Masters Arms 1:23-29


very, VERY wise stuff right here. straight from the Beeble

[Freakish]

I took my warrior from 60 to 4 recently. He is in half ntov gear with velious weapons etc. What I have noticed is that anything your level or higher has a really good chance of landing max hit regardless of your ac. Blues and lower it is godlike.

[Naethyn]

AC is much stronger the lower level you are. HP is king - especially at end game when the attack power of the mob is far higher then you can hope to get AC at. Also, evasive is the best warrior discipline and it should be used every pull. Also, the more HP you have the longer you stay in berserk and the more you can use bandages on.

[Brut]

It's moreso about mob cons than anything methinks.
That's why endgame tanks want just HP, since all the mobs they're tanking are usually red cons.

If you fight a blue con that's just a level away from being a green con, you take very little damage. If you fight a blue con that's one level below you, you get max hit all the time. AC affects this somewhat, but the level is a huge factor.

[Snaggles]

Thank you for the feedback :).

So as an Erudite with 60 base str and 90 base stam, while the Crustacean Shell Armor looks silly it's prob not a huge hindrance? At this point just being able to carry crap to sell is nice.

Guess I'll revisit the AC factor when the BE stuff actually is clickable and I'm tanking more than fearing. Get a phased spider carapace, etc.

[maskedmelonpai]

yeah, it not a big deal. the funny thing about crusty armor is that as the era start to become useful, the ac becomes not as good compared to the alternatives. for leveling though str is very handy as you have learned because being encumbered SUCK. be careful to make sure you don't fall under 75 agi because that will DESTROY your AC :3

[Snaggles]

yeah, it not a big deal. the funny thing about crusty armor is that as the era start to become useful, the ac becomes not as good compared to the alternatives. for leveling though str is very handy as you have learned because being encumbered SUCK. be careful to make sure you don't fall under 75 agi because that will DESTROY your AC :3

Thanks and noted! I put some points to get to 75 agil and picked up an Obsidian Bead Loop on the cheap (2 ac, 3 agil, 3 intel). For those times im a bit overweight.

[Jimjam]

I took my warrior from 60 to 4 recently. He is in half ntov gear with velious weapons etc. What I have noticed is that anything your level or higher has a really good chance of landing max hit regardless of your ac. Blues and lower it is godlike.

I've noticed this; you will never mitigate great against whites or better while levelling up.

I can't decide whether it is due to a worn ac cap by level, because the hit roll is weighted more strongly for defence than worn ac, or if there is a level comparison check as part of the hit roll.

Regardless, there definitely is a point where the value of AC diminishes, and at low level this point is fairly easy to attain. I suggest it may even be worth going for str after hp to help you carry more loot to sell.

[Swish]

I've noticed this; you will never mitigate great against whites or better while levelling up.

Right. So if soloing, fear kite (bard diet mobs etc)...and if you're not a SK yet, make the switch <3

[Jimjam]

I actually returned to my original toon, an SK recently. Have taken him from 29 to 49 and indeed avoiding damage through fear kite can be much more effective than tanking, unless there is a shaman to hand for slows/regen!

[Troxx]

Thank you for the feedback :).

So as an Erudite with 60 base str and 90 base stam, while the Crustacean Shell Armor looks silly it's prob not a huge hindrance? At this point just being able to carry crap to sell is nice.

Guess I'll revisit the AC factor when the BE stuff actually is clickable and I'm tanking more than fearing. Get a phased spider carapace, etc.

For xp group tanking (and soloing past level 30 even with fungi) you will spend most of your time tanking blue con mobs - especially from the high 30s onward. Don't be overly reliant on the high end raid tank perspective when weighing the value of AC. Crusty armor is fine - it's cheap and it gets the job done ... but it has fairly low ac compared to other plate alternatives that are likewise inexpensive.

[Snaggles]

For xp group tanking (and soloing past level 30 even with fungi) you will spend most of your time tanking blue con mobs - especially from the high 30s onward. Don't be overly reliant on the high end raid tank perspective when weighing the value of AC. Crusty armor is fine - it's cheap and it gets the job done ... but it has fairly low ac compared to other plate alternatives that are likewise inexpensive.

So probably go more AC then for group tanking over Hp's? Blood Ember is fairly affordable. A Black Enameled BP is super cheap. Phased Spider Carapace is doable. Could even swap out the hand wraps for a FBSS and go BE gaunts for free snare. Might wait a bit and invest in some weight reducing bags first. That 60 or so base Str sucks :).

I guess unless I'm with a cleric getting Ch's it's more mana efficient just to take less damage.

[Swish]

HP/stamina is where it's at I always thought. As a dark elf SK it was certainly noticeable on the stamina difference when I tanked in Kael versus an ogre.

Does AC "work" on P99 properly? That's another thread...

[Troxx]

HP/stamina is where it's at I always thought. As a dark elf SK it was certainly noticeable on the stamina difference when I tanked in Kael versus an ogre.

Does AC "work" on P99 properly? That's another thread...

Kael (ie arena and high level mobs) is an entirely different set of content than what most people will do in xp groups up to level 60. Assuming the mobs you are fighting are not white/yellow or -1 level dark blues and that you don't have a cleric who's a pro at purple clubbing you to maximize the efficiency of complete heal, ac will help a tank more than stacking stamina above all else.

For mundane xp groups, points in time where you only have a druid/shaman, or even for challenging content whenever your cleric routinely cheals too early to really maximize complete heal efficiency - focusing on ac will make you a more efficient tank than chasing stamina (and arguably well beyond the ac/hp ratio that most tanks use on p99).

Taking less damage is superior to having a bigger buffer to heal *most_of_the_time*. It's always possible to cherry pick exceptions, but the general rule is that damage you never needed to have healed in the first place is superior to having a marginally superior hp buffer.

Raid tanking red cons is an entirely different subject.

[SpinFin]

My rule of thumb to remain simple and sane is as follows:

AC for group content.

HP for high tier raid content.


Personally, my item choices and what I wear on the normal basis are a balanced mix of hp/ac for the most part (choosing strong 50hp items with good AC and a variety of stats over 100hp items with low or no AC). I'm not head over heels about being a pure HP focused warrior.

[Atmas]

My experiences have led me to believe that AC somewhat works but you kind of have to be at the high end of the spectrum for the level of the encounter for it to make any noticeable difference. In general I think mobs hit consistently too high on this server.

At the really end game the decisions aren't too tough. As others have said you basically focus on high hitpoints and most of the high hitpoint items have good AC.