Hotfix 2/20/2011

[Rogean]

Addressing issues from yesterday's patch:


Haynar has fixed PBAE Spells hitting casters.
Pet Aggro has been adjusted further.
NPC Distance aggro loss removed until a better system is developed.

[ElanoraBryght]

-

[svarien]

I know you guys don't hear this enough.....thanks.

[Thoughtseize]

Yes, thank you for a quick response!

[prexusbas]

I'm an enchanter and the troll regen seems to be broken since the patch.

[inyane]

So, you posted the hotfix patch notes, but not the patch notes themselves?
Will those be along sooner or later?

[Zigfreed]

The troll illusion spell does state that it gives ONE additional regen point not full troll regen. Perhaps the patch reflects this.

Sure was nice having full trollness while it lasted!

[Nedala]

Thanks for this :)

[Sorrow*qc]

troll illusion :
cloak you in a shimmering illusion that make you appear as a troll. This spell also increase your regeneration slightly.

where did you get your half trollf effect? 1 hp/tick???

[Nedala]

Illusion: Troll Self Only Morph to Troll & HP Regen Buff (1hp/tick) Div. Self 100

(crys.org)

[Zarniwooop]

Thanks for the insane amounts of work this must generate.

Please rest assured we are willing to wait as long as it takes til you feel its right.

[Solastramage]

I cant find any info on how to patch the game

[darkblade717]

I cant find any info on how to patch the game

Patches on EQemu aren't like patches on live. Once you login to the server any changes they have made take an automatic effect. There's no additional downloading for them.

[Smyd]

love you.

[DevGrousis]

quick question.

Enchanter lvl 24: i pull with a slow, and my pet engages as soon as mob hits me. i can run from this mob for as long as i want, my pet will NEVER take agro off of me even if he's hitting him like crazy. is this the way it was intended to be adjusted to? i didnt play this far back in live so i've no clue.

thanks for the patch though, devs! :D

[Rais]

Slow has the highest level of agro. The npcs are acting correctly.

[kylok]

Addressing issues from yesterday's patch:


NPC Distance aggro loss removed until a better system is developed.


NPC Distance aggro loss? Am I just entirely confused or did EQ ever have NPC distance aggro loss?

Not trying to complain - I totally appreciate all the work that everyone puts into this game to make it as classic as possible, just trying to clarify.

[DevGrousis]

NPC Distance aggro, as in you can agro an NPC that is KOS by proximity? yes classic EQ definitely had that :P

not quite sure what it means though

[Psionide]

no as in when you run far enough away from an npc they stop chasing you but still have you on a hate list to where if you happen to get near them again they will start chasing you again.

[Goryani]

NPC Distance aggro loss? Am I just entirely confused or did EQ ever have NPC distance aggro loss?

Not trying to complain - I totally appreciate all the work that everyone puts into this game to make it as classic as possible, just trying to clarify.

The NPC distance aggro loss changes that occurred the same time as the pet aggro changes were apparent to me. Stand far enough away from a mob. Tell your pet to attack, and the mob would not come after you. Stand close enough and the mob would make a beeline for you. The same effect happened at a greater distance while sitting.

EQ did have distance aggro loss. Performing an action (like sitting, nuking, or debuffing) within melee range would put you higher on the hate list than the same action performed much further away (like at max cast distance). Being far from the mob effectively lowered your current amount of threat. Some mobs were more sensitive to this phenomenon than others.

I don't envy the devs in trying to recreate the classic EQ aggro system. Aggro could be modified by distance, sitting/standing state, and probably several other things I'm forgetting. Some modifications seemed to be percentage based, or based on the HP of the mob, or sometimes just a flat amount. Those modifications differed by mob, by zone, and by expansion. It's just a big mess.

[kylok]

Ahhh I see. The word loss was confusing to me. I am most definitely aware of aggro adjustments based on distance as mentioned above (roots as well.. we all know about proximity root tanking). Cool - thanks for doing all the thinking for me =).

[Kaosu]

The NPC distance aggro loss changes that occurred the same time as the pet aggro changes were apparent to me. Stand far enough away from a mob. Tell your pet to attack, and the mob would not come after you. Stand close enough and the mob would make a beeline for you. The same effect happened at a greater distance while sitting.

EQ did have distance aggro loss. Performing an action (like sitting, nuking, or debuffing) within melee range would put you higher on the hate list than the same action performed much further away (like at max cast distance). Being far from the mob effectively lowered your current amount of threat. Some mobs were more sensitive to this phenomenon than others.

I don't envy the devs in trying to recreate the classic EQ aggro system. Aggro could be modified by distance, sitting/standing state, and probably several other things I'm forgetting. Some modifications seemed to be percentage based, or based on the HP of the mob, or sometimes just a flat amount. Those modifications differed by mob, by zone, and by expansion. It's just a big mess.

While its slightly in reference to that, thats not what the message meant.

It means, if you run away far enough, it will absolve all hate on that person and he'll lose aggro/hate causing the mob to return to his original location.

[maegi]

losing aggro from simply moving a certain distance isn't classic....is it?

[Kaosu]

losing aggro from simply moving a certain distance isn't classic....is it?

Its not - at least there hasn't been sufficient evidence to imply otherwise.

[Hasbinbad]

Its not - at least there hasn't been sufficient evidence to imply otherwise.
Yeah, i remember running clear across zones, with sow/etc. getting way ahead of shit, and still being chased by shit the whole way.. this definitely would not be classic, or from eq at all through at least velious if not luclin too, honestly i don't remember this ever, but i kinda fizzled out in luclin.

[Otto]

losing aggro from simply moving a certain distance isn't classic....is it?

There is a post about this in the bug forums where it could be discussed better, but it is in fact classic. The finer details, however, don't seem to be easily available.

[LevinJ]

I remember this being a new feature that started with the release of Kunark. My first trip through the Dreadlands is where I first encountered this phenomenon, and this was a big part of why Karnors was plagued with trains. You would outrun your pull, it would return to it's spot but retain aggro on you and spread said aggro, you went back to retrieve pull and brought the zone. [Note: The other Karnors-train causing issue was feigning - feigning didn't fully clear aggro so if you didn't zone to clear aggro after feigning off a pull then the same effect occcurred.]

But mobs definitely did NOT stop chasing you based on distance until Kunark opened.

[Otto]

But mobs definitely did NOT stop chasing you based on distance until Kunark opened.

Then explain the Findlegrob's pet phenomenon.

I used to abuse this mechanic on live leveling alts.

In rathe mts. you can pull Findlegrob and he'd send his pet after you and start casting. If you ran to the lake rathe zoneline, you'd end up far enough away for Findlegrob to go back to his spawn point and his pet to stick with you at the zoneline (since he was casting and the pet wasn't).

The part I can't explain is even after you killed the pet, Findlegrob would summon another and send it after you. It was an endless pull of findlegrob pets, good exp from 18-22.

Still don't understand why Findlegrob wouldn't come but his pet would.

[Pigdogius]

This seems more like WoW than EQ.

I played kunark-POP. Other than someone tagging a train I never remember losing mobs even ridiculously outrunning them. Quad kiting wyverns in Velious I would snare, sow outrun them get to the others wait and med while I gathered my quad.

[guineapig]

Yeah, i remember running clear across zones, with sow/etc. getting way ahead of shit, and still being chased by shit the whole way..

500 distance is beyond your field of vision I think. You sure you were a greater distance than that? And did wait at the zoneline to see what followed you?

Also, I think if the KoS mobs are blue con to you then chain social agro might somehow negate this... Anyone know if that's the case?


I remember this being a new feature that started with the release of Kunark. My first trip through the Dreadlands is where I first encountered this phenomenon, and this was a big part of why Karnors was plagued with trains. You would outrun your pull, it would return to it's spot but retain aggro on you and spread said aggro, you went back to retrieve pull and brought the zone.

The distance required to replicate this requires a very large outdoor zone and a huge speed boost over the mob. Are you sure you aren't remembering some other technique that was used in Karnor's.

EDIT: After looking at the map, http://www.eqmacwiki.com/eqatlas/karnors1map.html
if distance is = to /loc then I guess it might be possible if the mob was extremely snared. Basically the mob would still have to be in the middle of the zone by the time you made it to the DL zoneline.

And final question which I have asked before. What's the best way to judge this distance? how much does 500 distance equate to in terms of /loc? Is it a 1 to 1 ratio?

[nilbog]

I personally believe the Kunark npcs losing aggro was due to pathing. It seemed some npcs were harder to keep on you than others.. like kunark giants iirc. I do not believe this phenomenon took place in classic, and I also don't remember it in Velious.

Obviously evidence of some type would be good. All we have now is anecdotal evidence.

One example that comes to mind is Trakanon the dragon. If you were to aggro him in his lair, and get banished (Trakanon's Touch) .. he would summon you back. With a base lose aggro by distance, this wouldn't happen would it?

http://i52.tinypic.com/23w2nog.jpg

[Otto]

Obviously evidence of some type would be good. All we have now is anecdotal evidence.

One example that comes to mind is Trakanon the dragon. If you were to aggro him in his lair, and get banished (Trakanon's Touch) .. he would summon you back. With a base lose aggro by distance, this wouldn't happen would it?


This is the issue I'm having. I know there are so many more instances of mobs losing aggro that should be remembered if it was purely based on a distance issue. After you showed the map I began to question the distance between Findlegrob's tower in Rathe Mts. and the Lake Rathe zoneline since it didn't really seem that far at all, but I guess it was.

Maybe since mobs didn't really lose aggro they just stopped chasing was the reason why mobs that could summon would summon, and why sending pets would still cause the pet to run towards the player. Can mage/necro pets be sent on mobs halfway across the zone?

[Kaosu]

Can mage/necro pets be sent on mobs halfway across the zone?

Not for players. They'll chase mobs for eternity, but sicking something outside a certain distance does not work.

[Sparkin]

Definitely used have issues with this in Kunark outdoor zones, pulling in Dreadlands, BW, and Skyfire in particular. You would just build up a certain separation and they'd stop following. It didn't have to be THAT large a gap either. I mean mobs would still be on the edge of your visual radius and they'd stop. They'd still be aggro on you though and when you got back within a certain range they'd go after you again.

But yeah, very anecdotal. Not really something one should even spend time trying to replicate. It was more just a little annoyance than anything else.

Yeah, I think some NPC's were easier to lose than others, but that might have simply been due to run speed. I remember wurms being the worst in this regard (being the easiest to lose) and they do move slower than most other NPC's yah?

[Zeelot]

I personally believe the Kunark npcs losing aggro was due to pathing. It seemed some npcs were harder to keep on you than others.. like kunark giants iirc. I do not believe this phenomenon took place in classic, and I also don't remember it in Velious.

Obviously evidence of some type would be good. All we have now is anecdotal evidence.

One example that comes to mind is Trakanon the dragon. If you were to aggro him in his lair, and get banished (Trakanon's Touch) .. he would summon you back. With a base lose aggro by distance, this wouldn't happen would it?

When I went back to solo Trakanon around the PoP era I would sometimes get summoned back when I get trak touched and other times he would lose aggro so I would have to run back and retry. Not sure what caused this, but perhaps this does evidence that it was something to do with pathing. hope the info helps.

[guineapig]

Maybe since mobs didn't really lose aggro they just stopped chasing was the reason why mobs that could summon would summon, and why sending pets would still cause the pet to run towards the player. Can mage/necro pets be sent on mobs halfway across the zone?


Exactly. Mobs that have the ability to summon would not be bothered by this distance cap because you're still on the hate list and in range of their ability (summon). You don't have to get closer.