Please Change the Two Boxing Rule

[Eseven]

I know, the people have been heard and the majority has ruled against it, but I would hope that some people would be open minded enough to consider my point of view and change what I think is an unnecessary rule.

From what I have gathered, the most cogent reason given as to why this rule is in place, is that the quality of the in-game community will be degraded by too many people playing double characters.

I agree with this argument to a certain extent. Yes, if a very high percentage of players were double boxing, then all the symptoms described by those against it would probably become an issue.

I disagree that this rather vague percentage will ever be reached. The majority of players are still going to be playing the game in a solo manner. It was like that before, it will be like that now. I can't recall once in the past of me ever thinking to myself "these damn two boxers, always ruining my fun!".

It really was never a problem. Usually it was just the opposite. The only time I ever really noticed a two boxer impacting the game was when we were grouped together and they were having a positive effect on game play, i.e. extra buffs, heals, etc. , just like any other character being controlled by one person.

Now your probably thinking, well thanks for sharing your view, now move along. Well that is the reason for my post. I am moving along although I really don't wish to and there really isn't a place to move along to anymore.

Like many other people, I have had a love for this game for many years. I eventually stopped playing because I wasn't happy with all the changes being made to it, and frankly all the time I was spending playing was beyond ridiculous. It would have been great to be able to come back to the game I had known and enjoy it again, not just because of the original content, but also because it was doable within my current lifestyle.

I am no longer willing or able to spend my time, especially my mornings, sitting around looking for a group to play with, and when that group is eventually found, not being able to get anything else in real life done. Being able to two box is a solution to this problem. It allows you the freedom to play the game in a semi-afk capacity while you go about your daily business. What is so wrong with that? It doesn't mean you never group with other people, you just regulate it to when you have the time to focus your full attention on the game.

Many player's lifestyles and priorities have changed over the last ten or so years but our love for this game has not. I used to stay up all night raiding and adding pizza boxes to my collection, now I wake up early in the morning and enjoy cooking a nice meal for my family in the evening.

The two boxing rule being enforced on this server is driving people like myself away from the game. We either play the game because we can or we don't play at all. We don't wish to interfere with any others enjoyment or hurt the game whatsoever, we just want to go about our game business quietly and at a leisurely pace.

I hope some people will take my thoughts into consideration and change a rule that I believe labels many decent players as troublemakers and thus considers them better off dead.

[quellren]

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx217/wanderer80/not_this_shit_again_2.jpg

[Nedala]

Live: 2 boxing costs you extra money, the majority of people didn't 2 box for this reason.

P99: 2 boxing would be free, almost everyone + their grandmothers would 2 box, everything would be even worse camped than now, raiding would be a total shitfest. The server would be garbage, the majority of people would /quit, p99 would be dead.

Play a solo class if you dont want to be in need of grps.



/thread

[porigromus]

Play a mage, necro or a druid. These classes can solo and this solves all issues you mentioned in your post. By the way the reason you want to solo is what the 1 client per IP corrects. Everyone doing there own thing.

[Alex]

Live: 2 boxing costs you extra money, the majority of people didn't 2 box for this reason.

P99: 2 boxing would be free, almost everyone + their grandmothers would 2 box, everything would be even worse camped than now, raiding would be a total shitfest. The server would be garbage, the majority of people would /quit, p99 would be dead.

Play a solo class if you dont want to be in need of grps.



/thread

This, two-boxing would ruin the server. No boxing is part of what makes this server great.

[Zadrian]

While you attempt to make a logical reason, I have to disagree.
There are many other aspects to the game other than just sitting LFG. You can tradeskill, do a quest, work some faction while waiting. Also, why "sit" LFG, you can be a bit more pro-active and approach groups that you are interested in joining. The only time I EVER had an issue finding a group was when I just sat LFG. When I approach groups and tell them that I am interested in taking a spot in line, I get a tell within the hour.

The second reason that it could be difficult for you to find a group is because the server's population is fairly high for the content, therefore a lot of the popular exp zones are filled up. Once kunark is released, within a month, there will be more exp zones, more players and more groups.

Finally, the last thing you can do to find a group is form a group of your own and venture into Kedge. Kedge is usually a fairly empty place, therefore a great area to level in.

I feel that an argument of "I can't get groups" is fairly weak for justifying 2-boxing. If I can find groups as a ranger, "allegedly the most hated class in EQ before Luclin," then anyone else can.

[Alkorin]

I am no longer willing or able to spend my time, especially my mornings, sitting around looking for a group to play with, and when that group is eventually found, not being able to get anything else in real life done. Being able to two box is a solution to this problem.

This, among other things in your post, was what struck me as quoteworthy. This is a game -- if you don't have the time to play, that's how it works. You don't have the time.

If you need to get RL things done, why are you online in the first place? And, if I might add -- if you are too busy to play a single character properly, how does the ability to play two or more make things easier on you and give you -more- time to do things away from the keyboard(s)? Surely you would be just as AFK as a single member of a group, only the rest of your group could function without you while you were momentarily AFK?

Sorry, your logic seems flawed to me. I'm happy that people aren't supposed to be boxing -- though we all know that people do it, and I hope that they get caught.

[Pescador]

The main arguments against 2boxing are that it will prevent people from grouping, it will exacerbate camping problems, and it will reduce the community / player interaction.

Your arguments in favor of 2boxing are that it will allow you to not group, will allow you to solo stuff you normally wouldn't be able to, and will keep you from having to interact with other players to advance...

Your reasons for supporting 2boxing are the exact same reasons it isn't allowed in the first place.

[Lazortag]

The reason why two-boxing never affected anyone back in the day is because not everyone could do it, since they'd have to pay twice the subscription fees. This isn't true on p99.

What I've seen on other servers is that two-boxing essentially forces everyone else to do it too to maintain the same advantage or to be able to get anything done (as groups are consistently filled by multi-boxers). I think that's an unreasonable entry cost for people like me who just generally dislike engaging in two-boxing for ourselves.

Lastly, has anyone considered what multiboxing would do to raiding?? Holy shit would that be ridiculous. There'd be no entry cost at all for being a small guild since you could just multibox a raid force without actually having the members to support it. Also, at later hours where european guilds have the most chance to get any access to content, other guilds could cockblock them by just having a few members on who can multibox. One of the ways one guild gets a competitive advantage over others is with numbers - ie, by having more numbers and by hoping the other guild has less so that they can't clear efficiently or camp bosses legally (since you need 15). This is eliminated if people can just two-box.

[Orov]

Go play EZ server or Hidden Forest or something. Two-box the shit out of it. It will NEVER be allowed here. I prefer it that way.

[Hoggen]

Number one reason there is no need, nor should there be a desire, for two-boxing on P1999: there are plenty of other free servers where you can do it. Go find somewhere else to play.

[Humerox]

Now your probably thinking, well thanks for sharing your view, now move along.

Yup.

:)

[Randy]

The reason why two-boxing never affected anyone back in the day is because not everyone could do it, since they'd have to pay twice the subscription fees. This isn't true on p99.

Don't forget CPU power as well. I doubt anyone is still running a computer that couldn't 2-box right now. Anyhow, the OPs argument is weak at best. The rule is there to stay for good reason.

As pointed out, there are plenty of solid other servers that allow 2-boxing. They're just not classic like this one.

[Gorgetrapper]

The reason why two-boxing never affected anyone back in the day is because not everyone could do it, since they'd have to pay twice the subscription fees. This isn't true on p99.


How much did computers cost back then? Over a thousand if I remember correctly. Most of us (if you played back then) were probably between the ages of 14 and 25 and a computer was probably one of the last things to get. Now you can get premade computers that can cost you like $400 and still run alright.

[MaSQue]

jesus why would they even think of letting players box? jesus go to another server if you wanna box, let this one stay classic and PURE.

[Supreme]

I think just paying for an extra IP exemtion (say $100 for 12 months) would be a great way to address the issues all the way around.

-Get $$$ for server costs.
-Multiboxers could pay for 1+ exemptions (why limit it to 2?).
-Would hold those "lying" about girlfriends/wives/boyfriends/husbands/kids/cousins/roommates playing and need an IP exemption accountable!
-Would supplement the "classic" eq feel without totally ruining the server.

[M.Bison]

I think just paying for an extra IP exemtion (say $100 for 12 months) would be a great way to address the issues all the way around.

-Get $$$ for server costs.
-Multiboxers could pay for 1+ exemptions (why limit it to 2?).
-Would hold those "lying" about girlfriends/wives/boyfriends/husbands/kids/cousins/roommates playing and need an IP exemption accountable!
-Would supplement the "classic" eq feel without totally ruining the server.

Also a great way to get the server shut down.

[Supreme]

How so? Paying for IP exemption on your network violates what rule?

Ok so better yet...

Donate for "credits" use those "credits" to pay for your IP exemption....

[Shocore]

There are plenty of MMO's, free ones even, where you can solo or 2box. You do not have the right to enjoy this game on your own terms, any more than I have the right to name my character Tugmuynuts.

[Odeseus]

Supreme, this would cause the server to be shut down because the #1 reason SoE has not tried to shut P99 down is that P99 does not generate cash. The donations are a thank you to the devs for providing the server for us to use, and importantly do not give you any advantage vs. those who do not donate. As soon as you start talking money, SoE is going to want a cut of the profits. So either the devs get taken to court for SoE to get money from them, or SoE forces them to shut down the server.

Either way, money changing hands in any form is a quick way to cause massive trouble.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

nonononononono!
http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/nowantp1.gif

[Uterus]

While you attempt to make a logical reason, I have to disagree.
There are many other aspects to the game other than just sitting LFG. You can tradeskill, do a quest, work some faction while waiting. Also, why "sit" LFG, you can be a bit more pro-active and approach groups that you are interested in joining. The only time I EVER had an issue finding a group was when I just sat LFG. When I approach groups and tell them that I am interested in taking a spot in line, I get a tell within the hour.


THIS.

If all you want to do is exp and group, you're a cretin. Go find something else to do, there is plenty.

[Supreme]

Odeseus i am not sure about that...

How do other EMUs do this? Through donations.

Anyways just a suggestion really...i think there should be no IP exemptions in any shape or form.

[Hasbinbad]

I know, the people have been heard and the majority has ruled against it, but I would hope that some people would be open minded enough to consider my point of view and change what I think is an unnecessary rule.

From what I have gathered, the most cogent reason given as to why this rule is in place, is that the quality of the in-game community will be degraded by too many people playing double characters.

I agree with this argument to a certain extent. Yes, if a very high percentage of players were double boxing, then all the symptoms described by those against it would probably become an issue.

I disagree that this rather vague percentage will ever be reached. The majority of players are still going to be playing the game in a solo manner. It was like that before, it will be like that now. I can't recall once in the past of me ever thinking to myself "these damn two boxers, always ruining my fun!".

It really was never a problem. Usually it was just the opposite. The only time I ever really noticed a two boxer impacting the game was when we were grouped together and they were having a positive effect on game play, i.e. extra buffs, heals, etc. , just like any other character being controlled by one person.

Now your probably thinking, well thanks for sharing your view, now move along. Well that is the reason for my post. I am moving along although I really don't wish to and there really isn't a place to move along to anymore.

Like many other people, I have had a love for this game for many years. I eventually stopped playing because I wasn't happy with all the changes being made to it, and frankly all the time I was spending playing was beyond ridiculous. It would have been great to be able to come back to the game I had known and enjoy it again, not just because of the original content, but also because it was doable within my current lifestyle.

I am no longer willing or able to spend my time, especially my mornings, sitting around looking for a group to play with, and when that group is eventually found, not being able to get anything else in real life done. Being able to two box is a solution to this problem. It allows you the freedom to play the game in a semi-afk capacity while you go about your daily business. What is so wrong with that? It doesn't mean you never group with other people, you just regulate it to when you have the time to focus your full attention on the game.

Many player's lifestyles and priorities have changed over the last ten or so years but our love for this game has not. I used to stay up all night raiding and adding pizza boxes to my collection, now I wake up early in the morning and enjoy cooking a nice meal for my family in the evening.

The two boxing rule being enforced on this server is driving people like myself away from the game. We either play the game because we can or we don't play at all. We don't wish to interfere with any others enjoyment or hurt the game whatsoever, we just want to go about our game business quietly and at a leisurely pace.

I hope some people will take my thoughts into consideration and change a rule that I believe labels many decent players as troublemakers and thus considers them better off dead.
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/7/27/128931660352215452.jpg

[Harrison]

Odeseus i am not sure about that...

How do other EMUs do this? Through donations.

Anyways just a suggestion really...i think there should be no IP exemptions in any shape or form.

Retarded.

[Teeny]

Live: 2 boxing costs you extra money, the majority of people didn't 2 box for this reason.

P99: 2 boxing would be free, almost everyone + their grandmothers would 2 box, everything would be even worse camped than now, raiding would be a total shitfest. The server would be garbage, the majority of people would /quit, p99 would be dead.

Play a solo class if you dont want to be in need of grps.



/thread

You cap the amount of boxes people get, allowing 2, wouldn't kill the state of this game, it would help it. Groups would be full, and be able to do more with it, yes people can duo more, but it means more people will be apt to play because TBH, when I came back I played a solo class because I don't have 15 people I know playing with me. With kunark coming, and more zones and more people being SPREAD OUT.

You people on this server are kidding yourselves if you don't think its already going on anyways, with these exemptions, the GMs are stretched thin trying to watch for people who do it, but its done. People find work arounds to it, and the list goes on and on. I play usually late night hours, when theres 300 and less on, and I can tell you, if I played anything but a necro, I'd probably have quit by now, I really think allowing just 2, would bring more people to the server who wouldn't be scared to start here because they can play 2 classes that compliment well and help them get started. I personally would have liked to play a group class like a rogue, but knowing my playtime, during leveling it just wouldn't be possible or efficient in any way.

Most of you don't know what doing this would do to the server, you are assuming. Most of the people who aren't complete egotists understand that the best XP groups in this game require a full group, not 4 people. All this will do is help that be achieved.

You guys are entitled to your opinion, we are entitled to ours, the bottom line of the situation is this, you want a classic EQ experience? Just like in 1999? GUESS WHAT? People boxed back then too, on 56k and i think the game was fine back then so do you obviously if your playing here now.

[MaSQue]

I think just paying for an extra IP exemtion (say $100 for 12 months) would be a great way to address the issues all the way around.

-Get $$$ for server costs.
-Multiboxers could pay for 1+ exemptions (why limit it to 2?).
-Would hold those "lying" about girlfriends/wives/boyfriends/husbands/kids/cousins/roommates playing and need an IP exemption accountable!
-Would supplement the "classic" eq feel without totally ruining the server.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
no, just NO

anyone talking about boxing should just be banned on the spot.
You guys are entitled to your opinion, we are entitled to ours
all 2 of you




There is a reason why this server caps at close to 1,000 people. Why in the hell would you ruin the flavor of the server with boxing? The server is perfect the way it is and no Im not a 50 with cap gear talking, I am starting from scratch again and would leave on the spot of boxing was allowed.

[Teeny]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
no, just NO

anyone talking about boxing should just be banned on the spot.

all 2 of you

I'm glad we can have a civil discussion.

[MaSQue]

I'm glad we can have a civil discussion.

When it comes to this topic this is what you get from the people who like the server the way it is now and the way it has always been. There is a bunch of servers on the server listing, I am sure lots of those allow boxing.


You guys are entitled to your opinion, we are entitled to ours, the bottom line of the situation is this, you want a classic EQ experience? Just like in 1999? GUESS WHAT? People boxed back then too, on 56k and i think the game was fine back then so do you obviously if your playing here now.GUESS WHAT? When you get your own server you can allow boxing as much as you want. Sorry to say but you do not run this server so I think maybe you should play it the way the people who run this server tell you to play it.

[Teeny]

When it comes to this topic this is what you get from the people who like the server the way it is now and the way it has always been. There is a bunch of servers on the server listing, I am sure lots of those allow boxing.


What draws people to project 1999 isn't the no boxing rule they have. Its the classic Everquest experience from 1999. To claim that like you have is completely close minded. I play this game on this server because I had some of the most fun in gaming back in Everquest up until Velious. This server has given us the best replica of that. You tell me go play on a server that allows boxing, when theres no other server that's done what Project 1999 has done. Good call buddy. The idea behind our posts is so the Devs will at least KNOW there are people on this server who wouldn't mind it and wouldn't threaten to quit if they did. I will play this server regardless on what they do because its an awesome server. I'm sorry you can't say the same.

GUESS WHAT? When you get your own server you can allow boxing as much as you want. Sorry to say but you do not run this server so I think maybe you should play it the way the people who run this server tell you to play it.

Why you getting so fired up? I'm simply giving the people who run this server an opinion, they don't have to do it, as long as my opinion is HEARD is all I'm asking.

[zeik]

I have yet to play on P99 yet, only because i havent gotten my titanium yet. but when i do i will be surely playing and i honestly was hoping to 2 box. but after reading all the comments on this thread, i completely agree with NO 2 BOXING. i have been doing it for years with EQ and with other games, but they bring up very valid points. M

y person favorite reason is that it will make group with randoms less appealing, why look for a cleric when you can pull out your box.. why pick up that "questionable" dps. when you can pull out your own DPS that u know wont F something up.

Furthermore it also gives it the even more old school feel, i can count on 1 hand how many people i met on my first year or two of playing EQ on one hand that 2+ boxed

all said and done. i'll be there in T minus 5 days and with only one account... even though i have 2 internet connections at my disposal. i am not going to 2 box.

[MaSQue]

You tell me go play on a server that allows boxing, when theres no other server that's done what Project 1999 has done.

Thanks, I do not need to say another word.

[Pico]

Most of you don't know what doing this would do to the server, you are assuming. Most of the people who aren't complete egotists understand that the best XP groups in this game require a full group, not 4 people. All this will do is help that be achieved.


It's not assuming. Go check out Shards of Dalaya, at least 75% of the players there 2 box, and it really kills the feeling of the game knowing half the players are just bots. The only reason they allow it is because they were never able to reach a huge population like P1999. They consider it a necessary evil.

Things are fine how they are.

[Teeny]

Thanks, I do not need to say another word.

You can take my quote out of context all you want, and you know what I mean by saying that, they are the only classic themed EQ server that is actually worth playing on. Its all good though my point was made.

[Teeny]

It's not assuming. Go check out Shards of Dalaya, at least 75% of the players there 2 box, and it really kills the feeling of the game knowing half the players are just bots. The only reason they allow it is because they were never able to reach a huge population like P1999. They consider it a necessary evil.

Things are fine how they are.

Shards of Dalaya =/= project 1999 This server would gain more people imo if boxing was allowed, but its an opinion nothing more. I'll just respectfully agree to disagree.

[Pico]

Shards of Dalaya =/= project 1999 This server would gain more people imo if boxing was allowed, but its an opinion nothing more. I'll just respectfully agree to disagree.

Why would it be any different? Why would people not decide to 2 box when it gives you a huge boost in power, is extremely easy to do, and free.

[MaSQue]

You can take my quote out of context all you want, and you know what I mean by saying that, they are the only classic themed EQ server that is actually worth playing on. Its all good though my point was made.dude stfu you said your side of things. Stop trying to smother everyone else that says this is a dumb idea.

You and few others want boxing
me and a BUNCH of others do want to play the server like the DEVS want it to be played.


there we go /thread

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

You think its annoying how farmed a lot of the good camps are see what happens when you make it possible for people to 2 box. 2 man box groups with certain combinations are much faster xp than most 6 man groups are, and thats all you'd see. I also don't know where youre getting this "I cant find 2 more people to fill out my 4 man group..." there're always at least 5 people actively lfg in any level range.

[Swindle]

It's bad enough with all the power levelers soaking up tons of mobs in all the XP bonus zones, I'd shudder to think how much worse it would be with two boxing. The whole point of this server was to recreate the 1999 experience. Two-boxing was virtually non-existant in 99.

[MaSQue]

before Teeny gets all upset over someone telling him to STFU lemme explain why I HATE when people start crying about shit the Devs don't allow.

I was one of the first people to log on to Vallon Zek PvP server. The server was a 4 team ALL ITEM LOOT PvP + coin loot server. You could loot weapons, stuff from bags etc etc nothing was safe if it was not a no drop item. before you go into saying I prolly played a Wizard or a Mage etc etc I played a Cleric and I wore my gear.

Well it didnt take long for the pussy ass carebears to roll in crying and complaining about how they did not like having there weapons and shields looted. What did the Devs do? They coded in no hand loot.

Once the carebears won that battle they moved on to they didnt like how there bags could be looted. yep, Devs nerfed that too.

Then the carebears moved on to whaa whaa they didnt like having armor looted ..... so the Devs just gave up and made it coin loot only.


The point of all this was the server started out as full loot/coin loot pvp until people like you cried and got it changed and eventually the server died because of it.

really, dude ... play the server like the Devs tell you to play it or just gtfo
Sorry if I am being a dick, but it gets really old. This is a FREE server, why are you trying to change shit?

gonna go to bed before I hurt someones feelings lol


PS: I am actually an easy to get along with kinda guy ;)

[Pico]

I don't disagree with you Masque but chill the fuck out.

[astuce999]

People who want to 2box but also want p99 already
have an option that most seem to not ever use;

p99 kunark beta.

If you want to 2box it's because you don't like making groups and want to
only rely on yourself. kunark beta is usually pretty empty so not only
are you allowed to 2box, you can hold as many camps as you want.

oh, and there's also kunark on it!

Some party poopers might say stuff like "kunark's coming out in a month and then the beta server will be wiped".

Well, first of all, the march 25th date is a tentative date, and I honestly
think it was a bit ambitious considering how much work is left to be done.

Secondly, when kunark comes out on regular p99, why would that
absolutely mean that the beta server has to come down? There's
still gonna be a lot of code to test and the beta server
will still have its raison d'être.

Thirdly, you'd be really helping out because there really needs to be a
lot more people testing and submitting stuff if we want a polished
product to come out.

So instead of being an outcast for wanting to 2box, be a hero! play on the kunark beta server and help the community!

cheers!

[Teeny]

People who want to 2box but also want p99 already
have an option that most seem to not ever use;

p99 kunark beta.

If you want to 2box it's because you don't like making groups and want to
only rely on yourself. kunark beta is usually pretty empty so not only
are you allowed to 2box, you can hold as many camps as you want.

oh, and there's also kunark on it!

Some party poopers might say stuff like "kunark's coming out in a month and then the beta server will be wiped".

Well, first of all, the march 25th date is a tentative date, and I honestly
think it was a bit ambitious considering how much work is left to be done.

Secondly, when kunark comes out on regular p99, why would that
absolutely mean that the beta server has to come down? There's
still gonna be a lot of code to test and the beta server
will still have its raison d'être.

Thirdly, you'd be really helping out because there really needs to be a
lot more people testing and submitting stuff if we want a polished
product to come out.

So instead of being an outcast for wanting to 2box, be a hero! play on the kunark beta server and help the community!

cheers!

You bring up an interesting point, a second project 1999 w/allowed boxing, would be interesting, but I wouldnt ask that of the devs, they put in so much work on 1 server. Anyhow back to the grind! :)

[Gorgetrapper]

I just think that people don't want to play on the beta, because they won't keep their progress and all their "work" will be gone.

[saucer]

listen up you two clowns.

1) the majority of this server doesn't want boxing.
2) the devs don't want boxing and have said it will never happen.

I love how the OP says "I hope people are open minded enough to listen to my point of view AND CHANGE THE RULE". So in order to be open minded we have to change the rule to that which only a minority want?
How about you be open minded and deal with it, asshole, because you are in the minority and we do NOT agree with you.

Also the argument that people boxed in 1999 is not a solid argument because very few people did it then, but if the option were open today, many more people would do it because it doesnt cost extra $ and computers are better. Also people who don't even want to box would get into the "keeping up with the Jones's" mentality, and be forced to box to be on a level playing field.

But why am I even making arguments, you will never get your way, so just stop whining about it and shitting up the boards.

[ilike]

listen up you two clowns.

1) the majority of this server doesn't want boxing.
2) the devs don't want boxing and have said it will never happen.

I love how the OP says "I hope people are open minded enough to listen to my point of view AND CHANGE THE RULE". So in order to be open minded we have to change the rule to that which only a minority want?
How about you be open minded and deal with it, asshole, because you are in the minority and we do NOT agree with you.

Also the argument that people boxed in 1999 is not a solid argument because very few people did it then, but if the option were open today, many more people would do it because it doesnt cost extra $ and computers are better. Also people who don't even want to box would get into the "keeping up with the Jones's" mentality, and be forced to box to be on a level playing field.

But why am I even making arguments, you will never get your way, so just stop whining about it and shitting up the boards.

/applaud /standing ovation

[Haynar]

The majority of the devs support the no boxing rule, not all.

The majority of the people that are active the on boards support the no boxing rule.

The most vocal people on the boards are very anti-boxing.

Is it going to change? Probably not this week.

If you are boxing, not playing the end game raider, etc., then servers like EZ server are great. There are several out there with plenty of content that are worth playing on, if you are very casual. Try them out. They are worth it. If they aren't up to what you are looking for, then start helping out improving the servers, quests, code, whatever it takes.

Good luck. If the rules aren't to your liking, to what you want, then you can always start your own server. It is a lot of work though. And in no time, you will not be interesting in playing on the server anymore probably.

No matter how loud you shout at the wind. It will not stop blowing.

H

[quellren]

I just think that people don't want to play on the beta, because they won't keep their progress and all their "work" will be gone.

I don't play on Beta because on 'Live-P99' my necro is *almost*49. On beta hes like 17.

[Hasbinbad]

The majority of the devs support the no boxing rule, not all.
The majority of the dev's are hella cool! ;D
*ducks behind an obstacle*

[Dac321]

The main arguments against 2boxing are that it will prevent people from grouping, it will exacerbate camping problems, and it will reduce the community / player interaction.

Your arguments in favor of 2boxing are that it will allow you to not group, will allow you to solo stuff you normally wouldn't be able to, and will keep you from having to interact with other players to advance...

Your reasons for supporting 2boxing are the exact same reasons it isn't allowed in the first place.

this

[Razdeline]

I remember my early EQ days; I gamed with 4 RL friends and between the 4 of us we boxed a shaman. We brought the shaman everywhere we went while leveling, and when it came time for us to start raiding we just put it aside. These were some of the best experiences I have had with my friends, and since they can not box on this server -- they have decided not to play.

Our social interaction with the server was never lacking; I was in one of the best raid guilds and made a ton of friends while playing. Some of the people I have played with 10 years ago are why I am here now.

During the Kunark/Velious days we rarely even had to box for doing groups in the premier dungeons, since there were plenty of players there anyways.

That being said, I do not think boxing a single account will effect anything, but actually boost the player base here and create a happy medium with the people that want boxing, and people that do not. HOWEVER, there are powergamers out there that want to box 5 accounts and run their own entire group. I felt this was unecessary and a bit overboard.

I personally feel that a single IP exemption wouldn't be a bad thing at all, and wouldnt cut into a classic playstyle where this was allowed anyways.

[StinkyGreenBud]

FUCK NO.

[Ganthan]

FUCK NO.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

If you box your less inclined to want to group with anyone. So i dont see how people are saying "itll make the server more social and player base increase" all that jazz. I dont want anyone two boxing 'cus then they wont group with me and my SK will be left out to dry!

[Omnimorph]

What i think the pro-boxers fail to realise is just how destructive it would be to the server.

For every 1 person who has no time for groups, is a rogue and can't solo. You'd have THIRTY idiots, PLing their twinks with their 50 druid / mage, in a zone where there's barely enough mobs for 2 groups to exp.

Every decent loot camp would be locked down by someone boxing. Raids would be even more of a clusterfuck than they already are. And hell, the really organized guilds would have PLed their alts to 50 and camp them at every boss spawn for faster mobilisation.

and let's say there's 30 people in solb, with boxing there would be 50, imagine the amount of drama.

[Alkorin]

FUCK NO.

[astuce999]

I just think that people don't want to play on the beta, because they won't keep their progress and all their "work" will be gone.


I don't know if you misread or misunderstood what I wrote, but again, I don't see why once kunark comes out on p99 the beta server has to be shut down. There was a p99 test server before kunark, and there should still be one after, so that they can test code fixes and encounter tweaks.

cheers!

[astuce999]

I don't play on Beta because on 'Live-P99' my necro is *almost*49. On beta hes like 17.

On beta your necro gets 500% xp bonus wherever he goes, and you can get all the camps you want, never have to wait for anyone to leave.

think about it!

[Razdeline]

Think about it, there are people that wont play because they cant box. I have 3 friends, good people, and good players that wont come here because of this.

How would the server be more social from non-boxing when ultimately there will always be less players?

[Razdeline]

What i think the pro-boxers fail to realise is just how destructive it would be to the server.

For every 1 person who has no time for groups, is a rogue and can't solo. You'd have THIRTY idiots, PLing their twinks with their 50 druid / mage, in a zone where there's barely enough mobs for 2 groups to exp.

Every decent loot camp would be locked down by someone boxing. Raids would be even more of a clusterfuck than they already are. And hell, the really organized guilds would have PLed their alts to 50 and camp them at every boss spawn for faster mobilisation.

and let's say there's 30 people in solb, with boxing there would be 50, imagine the amount of drama.

1.) Every guild thats good already has trackers that are sitting in a zone for mobiliZation.

2.) Thirty idiots?

3.) Most zones do not have all camps locked down. I have never ran into any sort of cluster since ive been here.

4.) Boxing is classic, although I beleive there needs to be certain restrictions.

[Razdeline]

You cap the amount of boxes people get, allowing 2, wouldn't kill the state of this game, it would help it. Groups would be full, and be able to do more with it, yes people can duo more, but it means more people will be apt to play because TBH, when I came back I played a solo class because I don't have 15 people I know playing with me. With kunark coming, and more zones and more people being SPREAD OUT.

You people on this server are kidding yourselves if you don't think its already going on anyways, with these exemptions, the GMs are stretched thin trying to watch for people who do it, but its done. People find work arounds to it, and the list goes on and on. I play usually late night hours, when theres 300 and less on, and I can tell you, if I played anything but a necro, I'd probably have quit by now, I really think allowing just 2, would bring more people to the server who wouldn't be scared to start here because they can play 2 classes that compliment well and help them get started. I personally would have liked to play a group class like a rogue, but knowing my playtime, during leveling it just wouldn't be possible or efficient in any way.

Most of you don't know what doing this would do to the server, you are assuming. Most of the people who aren't complete egotists understand that the best XP groups in this game require a full group, not 4 people. All this will do is help that be achieved.

You guys are entitled to your opinion, we are entitled to ours, the bottom line of the situation is this, you want a classic EQ experience? Just like in 1999? GUESS WHAT? People boxed back then too, on 56k and i think the game was fine back then so do you obviously if your playing here now.

^^ This.

[letsdance]

i plan on playing here and the no-boxing rule is also a big concern for me. back in my EQ times i loved 2-boxing and i did not experience the troubles mentioned here.

after reading this whole thread i agree that the no-boxing rule should stay in place, at least for the moment. altough i will miss it. but i think the issues are mostly connected to the dense population, which should improve with the expansions.

[Razdeline]

Also on classic, the classes played were more evened out.

Look at all the mages and necros on this server. Most of the people that have the solo mentality want to play a mage or a necro so they can camp things. Everywhere I go I see mages and necros, in groups, out of group, in raids(especially mages).

I know you all know what im talking about.

If boxing were allowed (with restrictions) I guarantee you wouldnt just see a bunch of mages running around.

Also, just because people want to box here or there, it doesn't mean they do it every waking moment they are in EQ. I hated boxing in raids/groups because I wanted to focus on my character and my group. I didn't like boxing compared to grouping/raiding. I actually enjoy to socialize when I play multiplayer games. I know most of you that have boxed can agree with me here, too.

Imagine the server with no one on it but yourself; Would you box and play on it if no one was ever going to be online?

[Omnimorph]

1.) Every guild thats good already has trackers that are sitting in a zone for mobiliZation.

2.) Thirty idiots?

3.) Most zones do not have all camps locked down. I have never ran into any sort of cluster since ive been here.

4.) Boxing is classic, although I beleive there needs to be certain restrictions.

You're saying that boxing would enrich the population, if i have access to a 50 druid, am i going to go and group with a bunch of other players my level and have fun levelling up, or am i going to go somewhere like MM and PL myself, killing alot of mobs quicker than a full group can.

Factor in the market of account selling for platinum, with the ability to 2 box and because the big $$ camps are already taken by someone boxing, you have a bunch of other people levelling up characters JUST to sell.

And then you have a vanilla group, 6 people, all playing their single characters, wanting to exp in somewhere like Sola... along with a bunch of level 50 druids, PLing up some randoms.

I know this is the case, because if boxing was allowed, i'd be PLing my bard. And then i'd probably level up a rogue. Fact is, exp would be a lot quicker PLing myself so what's my incentive to group?

[letsdance]

if i have access to a 50 druid, am i going to go and group with a bunch of other players my level and have fun levelling up
yes of course. i never PLed though i had access to 3 accounts. grouping is what makes EQ so much fun.

[Razdeline]

yes of course. i never PLed though i had access to 3 accounts. grouping is what makes EQ so much fun.

I agree with you here as well Letsdance. I understand Omni's worries about boxing, but I think many people on this discussion are hastily running to the defense and drawing the largest worst case scenario which has never happened on live. I have ran into people running a whole group as a box. And even at that magnitude on live, it never stopped me from soloing camps in Lguk on my mage. I would just ask those people when they would be done and I would get added to a list for the camp. Most 'cash camps' are soloable by a Mage and if not a mage, a Necro can solo almost any awesome loot spawn.

Also--Cash camps now are already taken at all times, go check Dino in OOT, check Frenzy in Lguk, check both Ancient Cyclopse spawns, Efreeti, Fire Giants, go hang out at Seafuries and count all the mages you see.

[Razdeline]

You're saying that boxing would enrich the population, if i have access to a 50 druid, am i going to go and group with a bunch of other players my level and have fun levelling up, or am i going to go somewhere like MM and PL myself, killing alot of mobs quicker than a full group can.

Factor in the market of account selling for platinum, with the ability to 2 box and because the big $$ camps are already taken by someone boxing, you have a bunch of other people levelling up characters JUST to sell.

And then you have a vanilla group, 6 people, all playing their single characters, wanting to exp in somewhere like Sola... along with a bunch of level 50 druids, PLing up some randoms.

I know this is the case, because if boxing was allowed, i'd be PLing my bard. And then i'd probably level up a rogue. Fact is, exp would be a lot quicker PLing myself so what's my incentive to group?

Also the incentive to group will be here once Kunark is released. Go box 4 characters and tell me how well you do in Sebelis or Chardok. I guarantee with all the mobs you will have to CC, trains, and ping ponging between characters, will be too much.

And like I said, people wouldn't play this game if there wasn't a social aspect. What I mean by that is: Just because people are boxing, does not mean they arent interacting with other players. If I knew I could box, but say there wasn't anyone in the game -- I wouldnt play the game.

[Curmudgen]

If the intent was to "just let my opinion be known" then an IM directed to the devs would work. Also you/y'all would not be responsive. Seems there is intent to market a change in attitude.

Really its been said before and it's true....this server has a rule set that will not be changing anytime in the forseeable future. This thread now seems pointless.

[Bruno]

Roll a pet class and you can dual box legit like the rest of us.

[moklianne]

I agree with you here as well Letsdance. I understand Omni's worries about boxing, but I think many people on this discussion are hastily running to the defense and drawing the largest worst case scenario which has never happened on live..

It never happened on live because people had to PAY for each account. There would be nothing to stop someone from boxing a whole group here, or at least 3 toons.

Hell, I'd love to two box if I could. I just think it would destroy the population within 6 months. I would rather enjoy P1999 for the long haul then enjoy it only for a few more months.

[runlvlzero]

whats funny about this 2 boxing business is just about anyone with half a brain can get just about any class to 50, and farm their own gear and be a loner. I think rogue right now could not possibly make 50 solo. And rogues are technically the easiest to get a group with if your LFG and 5 ft from another groups camp, and patient you will get a spot as soon as a dps drops to go have lunch. Unless everyone hates you...

Rogues - go farm poison, it gets better in kunark
Clerics - go play around with undead in s ro, or rathe mnts
Wars - best ever get from 30-31 in najena on TT's
etc... the list goes on theres nothing wrong with a little downtime

Why am I here and not on hidden forest or wow? because when I log in I get /tells from people chilling in EC or medding in a group or lfg ... sometimes I run around with someone and help them with something until i get a group or i try duoing a new spot with a random person to check out my class etc...

Sorry just not gonna happen here, especially when kunark comes out...

Ide also like to point out, bards can solo REALLY effectively, shamans, enchanters, wizards. Wizards vs Necro in a race to 50, a wizard has a solid chance of winning. Don't limit your options because "someone said play a certain way". Infact only class I would stay away from for any solo at all would be war and rog, with good twink items war is playable. I can solo my 32 SK in bronze armor if i want to... its cheese. Boring (because its solo) but cheese.

[Mad Jacq]

Boxing would ruin the server.

[Spewys]

Yeah...No thanks. We have had this discussion enough.

[tocasia]

Boxing is cheating and should continue to be disallowed. One of the best things about the Classic EQ experience is the need for groups to get anything done (for most classes). It's really great to get into a pick-up group where everyone is courteous and knows how to play their class. The need for social interaction to succeed puts old EQ above other current MMO's in my mind.

Personally, I'd hate to group with people who are boxing because I don't believe they can really be paying enough attention to each character to play well, and that disgusts me.

But it's still important to allow IP exemptions in special cases so that family can play together. I'm still waiting for mine, but I'm leveling a necro in the meantime.

[hedbonker]

We have heard you and we are not moved.

[Omnimorph]

Hell, if you're wanting to allow boxing, why not just get the devs to program in mercs like on live :p

Because that's effectively what you're doing.

[gnomishfirework]

This server has the highest population of all the EQEmu servers.

Why does it need boxing?

[nilbog]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmKEGCVJ-WP2c76y2MRF5B_z1CAiQ6MoEnDbR9hyWKfmizObg2&t=1

[Kvappe]

For european players boxing would make sence, because there is allmost no groups to join, but its not hard at all finding groups in the late evenings for europeans, let alone all night because of all the americans.

We cant all play in american hours, please take that into consideration.

[nalkin]

For european players boxing would make sence, because there is allmost no groups to join, but its not hard at all finding groups in the late evenings for europeans, let alone all night because of all the americans.

We cant all play in american hours, please take that into consideration.

One cannot make decisions based on the minority when it negatively impacts the majority.

^thats quotable. Someone quote that.

[Nedala]

^thats quotable. Someone quote that.

:P


Im EU, and i call bullshit. Build your grps and it's np at EU times too.

at all the "so much more people would play here if boxing was allowed" people, guess what: much more people would most likely quit if boxing was allowed. So screw your whiny friends who cant even play a game just because boxing isnt allowed.

[Rhambuk]

One cannot make decisions based on the minority when it negatively impacts the majority.

The Gnomelord has spoken

[hedbonker]

One cannot make decisions based on the minority when it negatively impacts the majority.

^thats quotable. Someone quote that.

That would be a paraphrase of Aristotle, in his "The Aim of Man":

"Even supposing the chief good to be eventually the aim for the individual as for the state, that of the state is evidently of greater and more fundamental importance both to attain and to preserve. The securing of one individual's good is cause for rejoicing, but to secure the good of a nation or of a city-state is nobler and more divine."

Which is the earliest known reference to the precept of the needs of the individual being less than the needs of the masses. Typically attributed to Star Trek's Mr. Spock: "Logic dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

So, on an originality scale, you get a 0.

[Gorgetrapper]

at all the "so much more people would play here if boxing was allowed" people, guess what: much more people would most likely quit if boxing was allowed.

I quit playing at SoD because everyone and their mother 2 boxed.

[oddibemcd]

That would be a paraphrase of Aristotle, in his "The Aim of Man":

"Even supposing the chief good to be eventually the aim for the individual as for the state, that of the state is evidently of greater and more fundamental importance both to attain and to preserve. The securing of one individual's good is cause for rejoicing, but to secure the good of a nation or of a city-state is nobler and more divine."

Which is the earliest known reference to the precept of the needs of the individual being less than the needs of the masses. Typically attributed to Star Trek's Mr. Spock: "Logic dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

So, on an originality scale, you get a 0.

Which, of course, doesn't fit with most modern discussion. Slavery is a prime example. The need for a cheap labor pool negatively effecting a few does not give the many the right to place those into slavery. The need of five people for a kidney, a heart, a liver, a lung and a face does not allow those five to kill a universal donor and harvest that person's organs.

The American system has been generally successful at protecting the populace from the majority view, but has failed as well. Are the referendums that remove the right of gays to marry positive? Is that a good reflection on the needs of the many (to not have the sanctity of marriage violated) outweighing the needs of the few?

[Ronas]

Dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet but, wouldn't it work out better if you were allowed to box on off-peak time, and reset the timer to reactive during peak time?

That way people that dont have alot of time and no one to play with can box either other people around same time frame, whilst on peak time its turned off so its single players on raids and when there alot of people to group with.

In the end, if you hardcore no life then you can box to level up on off peak, while also added that if you are casual you can "play with yourself" hahaha. And the arguement would be its unfair? Like really? So you have no one to play with cept other 1-2 people is unfair??

[Hoggen]

Dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet but, wouldn't it work out better if you were allowed to box on off-peak time, and reset the timer to reactive during peak time?

It may be a horrible imposition, but there ARE solo classes available to play when you can't get a group for your melee main.

[Gorgetrapper]

Dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet but, wouldn't it work out better if you were allowed to box on off-peak time, and reset the timer to reactive during peak time?

That way people that dont have alot of time and no one to play with can box either other people around same time frame, whilst on peak time its turned off so its single players on raids and when there alot of people to group with.

In the end, if you hardcore no life then you can box to level up on off peak, while also added that if you are casual you can "play with yourself" hahaha. And the arguement would be its unfair? Like really? So you have no one to play with cept other 1-2 people is unfair??

No, because if you allow certain people to 2 box, then everyone else should. It wouldn't be fair to the people who can't/don't play during off-peak times.

[Ronas]

No, because if you allow certain people to 2 box, then everyone else should. It wouldn't be fair to the people who can't/don't play during off-peak times.

Peak population 700-900+, Off-peak 150-300. Set a window of Off-peak for around 4-6 hours max. The rest set to non boxing. I dont really see too much harm. Euro/oceanic/Off peak players can enjoy the server because there are people around to double for raids/bosses. And peak time share the same benefits because there is already players around to do things with. Either way there are only a small percentage of people that would take advantage of the feature if it was to be put in. Just that little more incentive to play on off peak time as well.

[Icaro]

Stop bumping this please, it's getting boring.

[porigromus]

Think about it, there are people that wont play because they cant box. I have 3 friends, good people, and good players that wont come here because of this.

How would the server be more social from non-boxing when ultimately there will always be less players?

There is proof that all the other servers which you can box on have less people playing them and Project 99. I think the proof is there that people prefer a server where you are playing with each other instead of everyone playing by themselves.

I for one tried other emu servers before this one and one of the reasons I chose to not continue was no one played together, everyone was leveling solo.

[soup]

Which, of course, doesn't fit with most modern discussion. Slavery is a prime example. The need for a cheap labor pool negatively effecting a few does not give the many the right to place those into slavery. The need of five people for a kidney, a heart, a liver, a lung and a face does not allow those five to kill a universal donor and harvest that person's organs.

The American system has been generally successful at protecting the populace from the majority view, but has failed as well. Are the referendums that remove the right of gays to marry positive? Is that a good reflection on the needs of the many (to not have the sanctity of marriage violated) outweighing the needs of the few?

You take the concept in a really weird direction. I think a more reasonable way to look at it (and more in the spirit of what it is supposed to mean) would be to say that if you had those 5 organs available, and one person who needs all 5 as well as having 5 people who need 1 of each, then you should save the 5 people rather than the 1. (lets ignore the fact that if you're needing to have 5 organs transplanted you're not going to live)

The gay marriage part doesn't make any sense though, since you would be supplying to the needs of the few without harming or taking anything away from the many.

[porigromus]

Peak population 700-900+, Off-peak 150-300. Set a window of Off-peak for around 4-6 hours max. The rest set to non boxing. I dont really see too much harm. Euro/oceanic/Off peak players can enjoy the server because there are people around to double for raids/bosses. And peak time share the same benefits because there is already players around to do things with. Either way there are only a small percentage of people that would take advantage of the feature if it was to be put in. Just that little more incentive to play on off peak time as well.

I think they should have a window of opportunity for people to box. It should be only activated between 4:30am EST - 4:31am EST. I think that is fair.

[Ektar]

lol

[Torqumada286]

I think they should have a window of opportunity for people to box. It should be only activated between 4:30am EST - 4:31am EST. I think that is fair.

I vote for this plan!

Look, I play a monk and I have pretty much soloed to 30th level so far. I have grouped less than 5 times for short periods of time. It can be done.

Torqumada

[Dantes]

1 box 1 person. This is how GOD intended it when he created PC games.

[Zadrian]

Why has this thread gone on for 10 pages? I hope it was 1 page of relevant discussion and 9 pages of just full-out trollin'.

I mean, if this has gone on beyond 1 page, that is stupid.

[zianlo1]

1 box 1 person. This is how GOD intended it when he created PC games.

I have 3 boxes. I am 3 people. =D And page 3 for pros.

[oddibemcd]

You take the concept in a really weird direction. I think a more reasonable way to look at it (and more in the spirit of what it is supposed to mean) would be to say that if you had those 5 organs available, and one person who needs all 5 as well as having 5 people who need 1 of each, then you should save the 5 people rather than the 1. (lets ignore the fact that if you're needing to have 5 organs transplanted you're not going to live)

The gay marriage part doesn't make any sense though, since you would be supplying to the needs of the few without harming or taking anything away from the many.

You just aren't taking the concept "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" all the way. In principle, this maxim sounds worthy; resources should be diverted to the problems most encounter, instead of those faced by few people (which obviously doesn't happen, look at the disproportionate amount of health care dollars that go towards childhood diseases.) In practice, this concept does not work. A major problem is definign needs. Does each individual define what that individual needs? If so, a person's needs becomes almost limitless. Can one outsider determine the needs of all? Obviously not, for needs will sway to what the deciding individual values higher. (God needs to be worshipped, white males need the vote, Louis XIV needs Versailles.) Can the many determine what is needed? In state after state the majority has determined that society needs to have marriage as an institution only existing between one man and one woman.

Again, if five people need organs to live and can obtain those organs from one individual, don't the needs of the five outweigh the needs of the one? Both need the organs to live, but if one person is killed, five survive. If the healthy individual is allowed to keep his organs, five die. Under your theory it is just to kill the healthy person.

[bluejam]

Please Change the Two Boxing Rule
No.

[VictoryARC]

Two words; fuck & no

[Messianic]

The idea of this thread is stupid, and how it was argued was rather poor. I don't think the OP has read the previous million pages of this debate already.

It would affect this server, under current circumstances, negatively. Play here for a while and you'll probably agree. If you don't think you can play a game without 2boxing, you probably shouldn't play that game.

It won't get changed - especially if your argument essentially ends with "You will not allow people to 2box, therefore you consider them better off dead." At least try harder than that if you really care about changing the rule.

[Razdeline]

It never happened on live because people had to PAY for each account. There would be nothing to stop someone from boxing a whole group here, or at least 3 toons.

Hell, I'd love to two box if I could. I just think it would destroy the population within 6 months. I would rather enjoy P1999 for the long haul then enjoy it only for a few more months.

I can appreciate from where you are comming from, but at the time, I was in highschool and paying 15 extra bucks a month(which I beleive was lower at the time) to run an extra account was very easy for me to do.

[mitic]

P99 will lose all the value gained over the last year the moment twoboxing is allowed.

[Goobles]

Man.. hundreds of us are already two-boxing. You just gotta know how to get away with it.

Oh, congratulations on the engagement.

[maegi]

Stop bumping this please, it's getting boring.

who makes you keep reading it then?

[Rogean]

Not happening.

[Goobles]

Not happening.

Awww. Can I at least keep my wife?

[Messianic]

Awww. Can I at least keep my wife?

My dog wants to play p99 plz k thx

[maegi]

Last time I tried to 2-box , my wife got really pissed off and I eneded up sleeping on the couch for 2 weeks. True story.

[Thetan]

Could always allow boxing during low population hours.

Personally, I don't care, I'm going necro when Kunark comes out and I'll live either way, but I can certainly understand why people who play odd hours, like I will be, would like to have the option to dual box on those off hours.

I multiboxed on live and still made every effort to group, so people saying multiboxing will ruin grouping are fairly clueless or they would realize that if people didn't want to group, they could just pick one of the other Emu servers out there and box up to dozens of toons.

I like MMOs for the interaction with real people and other than Diablo I've never really played any other game like I've played EQ and have been into them since my first one 34 years ago.

I'm guessing people are here for the nostalgia and for me pre-PoP which for me really was the best time in EQ.

To the guy who mentioned people computers not being able to handle multi boxing anyways was also pretty clueless. I was able to dual box quite easily on a Laptop with p3-700 Mhz and 768K of RAM 10 years ago and unless you're in the 3rd world, everyone has a more powerful systems who are playing now. FYI, I could box about 24-30 toons on my current machine.

Either way, I definitely wouldn't go more than dual boxing. You can make a pretty powerful 3 box set with a warrior, cleric and enchanter.

[Messianic]

people saying multiboxing will ruin grouping are fairly clueless

Based on prior polling, more than half of the server is clueless, then.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2738&highlight=boxing

I could also say that people who think multiboxing won't have a sizeable negative effect on server culture are fairly clueless and really don't have the experience the guys who run this server have.

or they would realize that if people didn't want to group, they could just pick one of the other Emu servers out there and box up to dozens of toons.

The culture of those servers is plain evidence to the case you're arguing against. The assumption "People play on this server because they want to group, so anyone who would box if they could is already on the other servers" is a pretty silly assumption.

But I won't go any farther in this argument, because its been beaten to death too many times.

In addition to the already provided link:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8936&highlight=boxing+rule
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4176&highlight=boxing+rule
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5433&highlight=boxing+rule

[Damaja]

Just NO
Allowing 2Boxing on P99 is the DUMBEST idea ever.

[Thetan]

That poll was a year ago and the server was relatively new back then I believe.

People constantly prove how clueless they are by the people they elect and adore. Michelle Bachman, Sarah Paylen, etc, if that doesn't prove how clueless lots of people are, I don't know what does.

I'm personally embarrassed by Michelle, she's from my state FFS. The woman constantly lies and misleads and yet she's constantly being brought onto shows to spew her crap.

Either way, I don't care. Remember, Necro. I'm going to be self sufficient when I can't find group and I don't really think the server needs it as there's plenty of what I assume are single boxers.

But who am I to force my feelings and desires on someone else.

[jimthayner]

After wasting a good hour reading this thread, I've realized that neither side has offered ANY EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE WHAT-SO-EVER to support their side. Neither side has offered me any proof other than idle speculation as to what may or may not happen if we allow/continue to disallow two-boxing.

The anti-two boxers are offereing a lot of theories and anecdotal evidence about how bad it would be (without offering any empirical proof), and the pro-two boxers are basically saying "it would be easier for me to play the game." Neither argument is valid for changing policy, or should even be considered by any group of people that have any amount of common sense or concept of objective decision making.

The only coherent argument made so far is against allowing people to pay money to two box, since Sony probably would try to shut us down if we became a for-profit server.

Just for the record, this entire thread has made anyone who has read it dumber, and I think every single one of you is an idiot that can't quantify what they want and why. And people that can't quantify what they want, and back it up with arguments that use facts that were gathered scientifically, then this should be good enough for you:

THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THIS SERVER SAID ITS NOT OKAY, SO THAT SETTLES IT. You lost your right to question when you failed to do so effectively.

That being said, I'm glad the devs released this server, as I've been trying to find a classic EQ experience for a long time. Hats off to you guys, and the work you do, to maintain this server.

[Messianic]

That poll was a year ago and the server was relatively new back then I believe.

People constantly prove how clueless they are by the people they elect and adore. Michelle Bachman, Sarah Paylen, etc, if that doesn't prove how clueless lots of people are, I don't know what does.

I'm personally embarrassed by Michelle, she's from my state FFS. The woman constantly lies and misleads and yet she's constantly being brought onto shows to spew her crap.

Either way, I don't care. Remember, Necro. I'm going to be self sufficient when I can't find group and I don't really think the server needs it as there's plenty of what I assume are single boxers.

But who am I to force my feelings and desires on someone else.

I don't know why politics should even be brought into this - but the mere fact that someone chooses to vote for one of the people you mentioned doesn't "prove" they're clueless. It "proves" in your own mind that they're clueless because they don't see things how you see them. But regardless where you fall on any issue, it's not about people proving themselves clueless (because no objective proof of such exists), its about not being so arrogant as to assume that those who disagree with you are stupid.

[toxiqwurm]

good donations help keep the server running ;)

[jimthayner]

I don't know why politics should even be brought into this - but the mere fact that someone chooses to vote for one of the people you mentioned doesn't "prove" they're clueless. It "proves" in your own mind that they're clueless because they don't see things how you see them. But regardless where you fall on any issue, it's not about people proving themselves clueless (because no objective proof of such exists), its about not being so arrogant as to assume that those who disagree with you are stupid.

Couldn't agree more. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them retarded. Believing that everyone that disagrees with you is a moron (just because they disagree with you) is the first step to tyranny and megalomania. Now, there is a scientific definition for 'moron' and 'idiot' based on people's rated IQ levels, but not even those are completely objective as there are many different IQ scales and tests.

If you're going to think someone is an idiot, do it for their lack of adherence to coherent fact or other things that are generally 'provable' by science.

[darkblade717]

Having people donate for an IP exemption could result in the loss of real players who use P99 as something they do with a loved one. Plenty of people 2-box now, they just aren't dumb enough to post questions about it on the forums.

[Nedala]

After wasting a good hour reading this thread, I've realized that neither side has offered ANY EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE WHAT-SO-EVER to support their side. Neither side has offered me any proof other than idle speculation as to what may or may not happen if we allow/continue to disallow two-boxing.

The anti-two boxers are offereing a lot of theories and anecdotal evidence about how bad it would be (without offering any empirical proof), and the pro-two boxers are basically saying "it would be easier for me to play the game." Neither argument is valid for changing policy, or should even be considered by any group of people that have any amount of common sense or concept of objective decision making.





you want proof? check one of the servers where 2 box is allowed, and see how HORRIBLE that is.

[jimthayner]

you want proof? check one of the servers where 2 box is allowed, and see how HORRIBLE that is.

I dislike two boxed servers, but horrible is a subjective term. Evidently, the people that two box on those servers like the two-boxing environment. Liking/disliking something isn't proof. Bottom line is that devs here banned it, with what seems to be a general consensus of the players being against allowing two boxing. That's fine. What it boils down to is a matter of personal preference. We're happy here disallowing it, and people are happy there allowing it. Good arrangement.

[Pico]

After wasting a good hour reading this thread, I've realized that neither side has offered ANY EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE WHAT-SO-EVER to support their side. Neither side has offered me any proof other than idle speculation as to what may or may not happen if we allow/continue to disallow two-boxing.

The anti-two boxers are offereing a lot of theories and anecdotal evidence about how bad it would be (without offering any empirical proof), and the pro-two boxers are basically saying "it would be easier for me to play the game." Neither argument is valid for changing policy, or should even be considered by any group of people that have any amount of common sense or concept of objective decision making.

The only coherent argument made so far is against allowing people to pay money to two box, since Sony probably would try to shut us down if we became a for-profit server.

Just for the record, this entire thread has made anyone who has read it dumber, and I think every single one of you is an idiot that can't quantify what they want and why. And people that can't quantify what they want, and back it up with arguments that use facts that were gathered scientifically, then this should be good enough for you:


Is this post a joke? Sure, let me find some peer-reviewed scientific articles on the effects boxing has on server populations for a 12 year old emulated game.

Anecdotal evidence is all anyone is going to have to go by here.

[Humerox]

... I don't really think the server needs it as there's plenty of what I assume are single boxers.

and why is that? i wonder.

if it appeases the pro-boxing population any, it's been made clear that if the server needs changed, so would the rule.

breaking down P99's success to any single factor is ludicrous. but as i've said before, changing something so fundamental to p99 without it being a necessity is - in itself - ludicrous.

2-boxing is purely a convenience, and we're a far cry from it becoming a necessity. the subject might be due more critical examination were we hovering at 100 or so at peak population. and even back in those days, those of us that were here still found groups.

[Lazortag]

Earlier in this thread I posited that allowing boxing would be really bad for the raid scene. Why did no one respond? Or does the pro-boxing population just not raid? (that's okay if they don't, but they have to consider the effect it would have still).

[maegi]

It's against the server rules. Why is this even being discussed. Even if everyone in this thread said hell yeah let's 2 box, it's not going to happen. Therefore this thread is a waste of time.

[Humerox]

lol...i can see it now:

Winds of Change is recruiting!

You must have your main account and pocket cleric + chanter. (don't waste other people's time healing you and doing your CC) If you also have a pocket mage for CoTH apply immediately! Sam Deathwalker and 5 others run this 35 toon hardcore raid guild. So we only need 1!! more account!

[loneless999]

hated boxers on live hate them here

theres plenty of it going on on P1999 people requesting IP unlocks for the brothers friends goldfish who happens to live with them and really wants to play

i bet even people with legit reasons to have an IP unlocked have multi boxed at some point because they can
(my wifes at work ill login her toon to buff / port / PL my toon for a bit no one will notice)

1 toon = 1 person thats how i like it thats how i hope it stays

[maegi]

hated boxers on live hate them here

theres plenty of it going on on P1999 people requesting IP unlocks for the brothers friends goldfish who happens to live with them and really wants to play

i bet even people with legit reasons to have an IP unlocked have multi boxed at some point because they can
(my wifes at work ill login her toon to buff / port / PL my toon for a bit no one will notice)

1 toon = 1 person thats how i like it thats how i hope it stays

Sounds like a confession to me...

[loneless999]

i dont have an IP exemption =P

[jimthayner]

It's against the server rules. Why is this even being discussed. Even if everyone in this thread said hell yeah let's 2 box, it's not going to happen. Therefore this thread is a waste of time.

THANK YOU

[Damaja]

yep what he said