Class changes with Kunark? Who will be buffed /nerfed ?

[VincentVolaju]

Hey all, so I haven't played in about 6 months so, friends quit and I got bored of working EC tunnel =/. Anyway, I heard about Kunark coming soon and figured Id give it another shot and this time maybe try to get into a guild so I wont have to play solo so much.

I don't think I want to go back to my Druid, so I thought maybe I would just reroll something else and start over again. However with Kunark coming soon I really don't know what changes will be made to the different class's, who will be buffed or nerfed or evened out etc. I was hoping some people on the forums here who already know what to expect could help me out a little?

Originally, before I made my Druid I was thinking of doing a Warrior because I wanted to be a class that was in demand and could get groups easily, so I figured hey, a tank. However back then everyone told me Warriors are terrible for tanking now and to just play an SK or Pally and wait for Kunark to be a warrior.

So my question is, which class's are going to go through the biggest changes in Kunark, and what are they? I still am looking to play a class that will be in demand and can get groups pretty easily. Also, I am not really interested in doing the big raids and such later, mainly just want to level up, see the content, have some good times. Not sure if that makes a diff in what is suggested to play or not?

Oh also, I have some pp on my Druid that I could prob use to twink a little bit to help out with the leveling. Anyway, thanks for reading! Wow this turned out to be more of a rant then a simple question bout Kunark, sorry lol >_>

[Shocore]

I believe that between Taunt being changed and new items, Warriors are plenty improved in Kunark.

Many of the "changes" just have to do with the progression of abilities past 50, so some classes ramp up in power, while others stay the same.

[Darian]

Shamans (torpor) and Wizards (lures) get better in the end-game. Mages (or at least their fire pets) get worse. Overall itemization greatly helps melee classes.

[Ralexia]

Feign Death will change. Currently, when a monk(or sk, or necro) successfully FD's, every mob forgets about him 100% of the time. Once the FD nerf occurs, mobs above lvl 32(I think) will forget about the monk only a small percent of the time. Instead, they'll reaggro the monk when he stands up unless they have returned to their spawn point or a certain amount of time has passed. This makes pulling easier at times and harder at other times.

[Savok]

Feign Death will change. Currently, when a monk(or sk, or necro) successfully FD's, every mob forgets about him 100% of the time. Once the FD nerf occurs, mobs above lvl 32(I think) will forget about the monk only a small percent of the time. Instead, they'll reaggro the monk when he stands up unless they have returned to their spawn point or a certain amount of time has passed. This makes pulling easier at times and harder at other times.

Level 35.

[runlvlzero]

Are they also removing XP penalties with kunark or is that patch waiting a month or two? (or was that not kunark)... I know hybrids had a bunch of spell changes and mana pool changes in kunark...

[VincentVolaju]

How is taunt being changed in Kunark? Whatever the change is, will it make Warriors more desirable group tanks for leveling then other classes, or atleast on par with SKs?

[Omnimorph]

How is taunt being changed in Kunark? Whatever the change is, will it make Warriors more desirable group tanks for leveling then other classes, or atleast on par with SKs?

As taunt is, it only works on mobs that are a lower level than you. In kunark i believe it works on higer level mobs and puts you to the top of the aggro list by a small amount. Effectively drawing instant aggro on a successful taunt.

[Kassel]

I thought the monk FD change was in Velious. Am i nuts?

[DevGrousis]

I thought the monk FD change was in Velious. Am i nuts?

It has been confirmed by our panel; you are nuts.




I am also curious about when/if Hybrid penalties will be taken off. You all know how adamant i am about expressing the shit sandwich that is the Hybrid Penalty. I thought it was after Kunark, but someone else told me that it was after Velious.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Velious released 16 Dec 2000 per http://www.timetoast.com/timelines/33422

Developer's Letter stating Hybrid XP penalties were a design error:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html

Short answer: about one month after Velious release.

[Kender]

I am also curious about when/if Hybrid penalties will be taken off. You all know how adamant i am about expressing the shit sandwich that is the Hybrid Penalty. I thought it was after Kunark, but someone else told me that it was after Velious.

Correct

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html

[Kender]

Velious released 16 Dec 2000 per http://www.timetoast.com/timelines/33422

Developer's Letter stating Hybrid XP penalties were a design error:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html

Short answer: about one month after Velious release.

pfft beat me by the time it took to type my reply 8)

[DevGrousis]

so since we are talking timelines does that mean after Kunark, we have a few months to wait for Velious?

[Hoggen]

Someone mentioned lures for wizards. They failed to mention jyll's series of PBAE and post 50 pillar spells. These are huge ( Jyll's for AE groups, pillars for quad kiting).

[Torqumada286]

Feign Death will change. Currently, when a monk(or sk, or necro) successfully FD's, every mob forgets about him 100% of the time. Once the FD nerf occurs, mobs above lvl 32(I think) will forget about the monk only a small percent of the time. Instead, they'll reaggro the monk when he stands up unless they have returned to their spawn point or a certain amount of time has passed. This makes pulling easier at times and harder at other times.

I'm pretty sure that was changed before Kunark, in the fall of 1999. There was a big Monk sit in on one of the servers in like October of 1999 due to the changes to FD. I was working that day, so I wasn't able to attend. Smed showed up as a giant gnome to talk to everyone. There were some tweaks after that, which involve the 35th level cutoff due to the input from the monk community, but the main change was months before Kunark came out. That may be what the server is using now, because there wasn't a "Your enemies have forgotten" you message in classic live EQ.

Edit: I'm off a little on my timeline. The changes went live December 1st. (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-1999.html), which is still 3 or 4 months before Kunark went live.

Torqumada

[tj218]

Rogues already have Evade.

[VincentVolaju]

As taunt is, it only works on mobs that are a lower level than you. In kunark i believe it works on higer level mobs and puts you to the top of the aggro list by a small amount. Effectively drawing instant aggro on a successful taunt.

Oh wow, that would be amazing. Maybe I will end up doing a Warrior then after all. Assuming I do, which weapons in Kunark are the new "SSoY". And how much do you think theyll cost on average?

[Brambletoe]

Feign Death will change. Currently, when a monk(or sk, or necro) successfully FD's, every mob forgets about him 100% of the time. Once the FD nerf occurs, mobs above lvl 32(I think) will forget about the monk only a small percent of the time. Instead, they'll reaggro the monk when he stands up unless they have returned to their spawn point or a certain amount of time has passed. This makes pulling easier at times and harder at other times.

Im curious how this would ever make pulling easier...

[Torqumada286]

Im curious how this would ever make pulling easier...

By timing things so mobs makes it back to their spawn points before the wanted target. If they are far enough apart, they don't aggro when the monk stands back up and you can get the single pull. It takes a little practice.

Torqumada

[Messianic]

Im curious how this would ever make pulling easier...

If you play/have played a monk, it makes a lot of sense, but it's tough to perfectly explain.

The point of FD isn't to de-aggro everything. It's just to scramble the aggro up to see if you can manipulate mob behavior.

For example, One of the behaviors I recognized as a monk was if you pulled a group, FD'd, then let just one mob return to their spawn point and stand back up to re-aggro them all, as soon as you FD again, the one that returned to its spawn point will stand around while the others returned immediately. I found that to be a very useful trick that's harder in classic.

[DevGrousis]

i remember Monks becoming able to solo 1-60 with Kunark. is that just because Iksar monks are leet? or were other things changed with how much they attack/how much they take?

[Darkrainhunter]

I also remember finally getting a message telling you if your taunt was successful or not.

[Arclyte]

Do wizards get crits in Kunark or was that velious?

[Messianic]

i remember Monks becoming able to solo 1-60 with Kunark. is that just because Iksar monks are leet? or were other things changed with how much they attack/how much they take?

Melee weaponry scales a lot higher in Kunark. Even with weapons as cheap as fighting batons or knuckle dusters, monks start becoming beastly in terms of damage - even at lower levels, and combined with their very good damage mitigation and avoidance, mend, and good bandaging skills, makes them excellent soloers. It will become relatively cheap to decently twink a monk in Kunark.

And, as has been mentioned, the fungi tunic is insanely good.

[guineapig]

so since we are talking timelines does that mean after Kunark, we have a few months to wait for Velious?

(I'm about 95% convinced that you are a troll considering how much time you spend on these foruams yet still asked this question.)

You will have at least a year to wait before you see Velious after Kunark launches.

[Versus]

i remember Monks becoming able to solo 1-60 with Kunark. is that just because Iksar monks are leet? or were other things changed with how much they attack/how much they take?

Everything they have said and more. If you are able to score a Fungi tunic, it's like having Chloroplast on you at all times...but better. Tranq Staff is 29/30 with a 1-12 second unresistable 120DD stun. Just a LOT of nice monk weapons come out in Kunark, so we can stop just using our bare fists.

Also, 201+ bind wound lets you bandage to 70% and for 100hp+ a pop, use this with mend and bang, you're @ 95%hp every 6 minute refresh on mend.

[jtaddei]

Do wizards get crits in Kunark or was that velious?

i'm pretty sure spell crits came out with AA's... so velious? probably right.

[Torqumada286]

Also, 201+ bind wound lets you bandage to 70% and for 100hp+ a pop, use this with mend and bang, you're @ 95%hp every 6 minute refresh on mend.

And if there is a zone line nearby....:D

Torqumada

[Dr4z3r]

i'm pretty sure spell crits came out with AA's... so velious? probably right.

AA's are post-Luclin.

[jtaddei]

AA's are post-Luclin.

really? damn i'm finally guilty of my timeline being all messed up.

[Versus]

AA's are post-Luclin.

Thank god. Fuck grinding for eternity.

[guineapig]

Thank god. Fuck grinding for eternity.

I second and third this sentiment!

[t0lkien]

AA's are post-Luclin.

Thankfully, as the AA abilities broke the game as much as Luclin ever did.

[kenzar]

FBSS
What is this? classic? we are talking KUNARK here! let me introduce you to the Sash of the Dragonborn (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=916)

[VincentVolaju]

Do Bards get any better in Kunark?

[KilyenaMage]

I believe that between Taunt being changed and new items, Warriors are plenty improved in Kunark.


Warriors also get "stun kick." At level 55 all Warrior kicks innately stun as well.

[KilyenaMage]

Velious released 16 Dec 2000 per http://www.timetoast.com/timelines/33422

Developer's Letter stating Hybrid XP penalties were a design error:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html

Short answer: about one month after Velious release.

They should just remove the Hybrid Penalties at Kunark release -- I think we would see alot of people dropping their mages/druids if they were able to play a Hybrid with a reasonable XP gain.

[KilyenaMage]

Rogues already have Evade.

Rogues gain double-backstab at level 55.

[KilyenaMage]

And, as has been mentioned, the fungi tunic is insanely good.

IF this server is true to classic, Fungis will be dropping like WATER for
the first several months after Kunark releases..

Of course the devs here like to handpick what they do/don't include so we'll see.

[Sparkin]

Pretty much everything dropped a lot more frequently in the expansion's first month+ (as it did with all expansions). I think it'd be fun if they could do that here too.

[jtaddei]

Pretty much everything dropped a lot more frequently in the expansion's first month+ (as it did with all expansions). I think it'd be fun if they could do that here too.

that would be pretty cool.:cool:

[Stefen]

Do Bards get any better in Kunark?

In terms of grouping, bards become decidedly weaker. We get only one new mez in Kunark which caps at mobs of level 55, and no new charm song. This means in areas with 56+ mobs, like lower sebilis, we have no viable form of crowd control.

Aside from minor upgrades to our haste, regen, and resist songs, Kunark only brings a few utility additions to the bard class.

Personally, I'm dreading the 55+ grind on this server where everyone is so hyper-aware of the 40% hybrid penalty.

[DevGrousis]

They should just remove the Hybrid Penalties at Kunark release -- I think we would see alot of people dropping their mages/druids if they were able to play a Hybrid with a reasonable XP gain.

this :D

(I'm about 95% convinced that you are a troll considering how much time you spend on these foruams yet still asked this question.)

You will have at least a year to wait before you see Velious after Kunark launches.

pot calling the kettle black? I love how becoming an active forum member is considered trolling. The only thing i dislike on the server is the xp penalty. if you dont like my posts, its much easier to skip over them than to read them and then reply. i dont cause trouble on purpose, and that is what a troll is.

[guineapig]

Pretty much everything dropped a lot more frequently in the expansion's first month+ (as it did with all expansions). I think it'd be fun if they could do that here too.

Unless you can provide some evidence to back this up it won't happen here. I haven't seen a single post or link mentioning item drops being lowered after the first month or two of Kunark.

that being said I'm assuming this would only apply to the random items that were set to drop off multiple non-named mobs in each zone. Those are usually trade-able and will indeed be quite common while people are fiercely killing everything in site to get to level 60 but only because most mobs won't have a very long life expectancy.

As named mobs already have a 100% drop rate of items (in most cases), it's just the rarity of the dropped item that's random.

[skipdog]

It's just surprising that you didn't even know the status of Velious, yet you spend so much time on the site.

So yeah, tbh, when I saw you ask that question... my mind went "how can he possibly think Velious comes a few months after Kunark???"

Don't take it personally :)

[DevGrousis]

just following the time line, velius came out same year kunark did, i didnt say "a few" as in 2 , i just meant as in less than a year, like in the real time line.

[Lazortag]

In terms of grouping, bards become decidedly weaker. We get only one new mez in Kunark which caps at mobs of level 55, and no new charm song. This means in areas with 56+ mobs, like lower sebilis, we have no viable form of crowd control.
...

Uthgaard said that there will be no level caps on any mezzes in Kunark. Is this inaccurate, classically?

[Stefen]

Unfortunately, Dev, Verant's development team was quite a bit larger than P99s. If we were following the time-line accurately, Kunark would have opened here 4ish months ago.

As Velious content is a lot more complex than Kunark in many ways, I'd guess that we can expect an 18-24 month delay between expansions here without a significant increase in the size of the p99 staff.

[DevGrousis]

Unfortunately, Dev, Verant's development team was quite a bit larger than P99s. If we were following the time-line accurately, Kunark would have opened here 4ish months ago.

As Velious content is a lot more complex than Kunark in many ways, I'd guess that we can expect an 18-24 month delay between expansions here without a significant increase in the size of the p99 staff.

i'm totally fine with that. the longer between the expansions the better. :D

[Stefen]

Uthgaard said that there will be no level caps on any mezzes in Kunark. Is this inaccurate, classically?

heh, yes, extremely inaccurate for bards and enchanters. Level 56+ mobs were immune to most stuns, including mezzes, with a few notable exceptions. The cleric stun line should not work on mobs 56+, dazzle will not work 56+, bard mez will not work 56+, whirl, color stuns, etc all useless on mobs 56+.

I remember this clearly, as healing mobs like Myconid Adepts were very annoying when you didn't have an enchanter with GoK to interupt their cheals.

Enchanters get glamour of kintaz at level 54, a relatively high mana cost mez compared to dazzle. It allows them to mez mobs up to level 57, but the spell is 125 mana for only 9 ticks - 36 seconds. This is what is used on juggs in sebilis, on mobs in the upper islands of air, etc.

At 59 enchanters gain Rapture, an unresistable mez that works on mobs up to level 61. Rapture lasts 7 ticks (42 seconds) and had a recast of 24 seconds, meaning you were restricted to mezzing one mob at a time in most cases if those mobs were 58+.

[DevGrousis]

what about soothes and lulls? will camps be breakable?

[Lazortag]

heh, yes, extremely inaccurate for bards and enchanters. Level 56+ mobs were immune to most stuns, including mezzes, with a few notable exceptions. The cleric stun line should not work on mobs 56+, dazzle will not work 56+, bard mez will not work 56+, whirl, color stuns, etc all useless on mobs 56+.

I remember this clearly, as healing mobs like Myconid Adepts were very annoying when you didn't have an enchanter with GoK to interupt their cheals.

Enchanters get glamour of kintaz at level 54, a relatively high mana cost mez compared to dazzle. It allows them to mez mobs up to level 57, but the spell is 125 mana for only 9 ticks - 36 seconds. This is what is used on juggs in sebilis, on mobs in the upper islands of air, etc.

At 59 enchanters gain Rapture, an unresistable mez that works on mobs up to level 61. Rapture lasts 7 ticks (42 seconds) and had a recast of 24 seconds, meaning you were restricted to mezzing one mob at a time in most cases if those mobs were 58+.

You should probably mention this here:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26504

was it a hard level cap, or was it just extremely difficult to land a mez on 45+ (or later, 56+) mobs?

[Stefen]

what about soothes and lulls? will camps be breakable?

The pre-50 lull->pacify line all capped at level 55 mobs, but there are 51+ lulls available to clerics and enchanters, like wake of tranquility, that function on mobs as high as level 60.

Camps are certainly breakable, as there is never a limit on root spells, and the 56+ restrictions don't apply to the vast majority of grind camps in kunark. That said, when going deep into sebilis to camp myconids or juggs, a good monk is very valuable.

[Messianic]

They should just remove the Hybrid Penalties at Kunark release -- I think we would see alot of people dropping their mages/druids if they were able to play a Hybrid with a reasonable XP gain.

Would be awesome in one respect, but i doubt they'll do it

[fugazi]

It would give us a nice extra bunch of tanks and less soloists, that's for sure.

[DevGrousis]

p1999 = solo server. just less so than the rest of the emu servers

[parlay1]

Do they plan to stop releasing the expansions here on p1999 eventually before they get to what ruined the game?

[Fromage]

p1999 = solo server. just less so than the rest of the emu servers

If you're good at your class, chances are you'll always find a group, hybrid penalty or not. It's not going anway any time soon, deal with it.

Note! I'm singling out you because you seem to be the most vocal about hybrid exp penalty. It sucks, i agree, but it's not gonna change because you want it to. Make yourself invaluable to groups, pull massive exp without wiping, get added to friends lists, repeat as necessary til 60.

[DevGrousis]

If you're good at your class, chances are you'll always find a group, hybrid penalty or not. It's not going anway any time soon, deal with it.

Note! I'm singling out you because you seem to be the most vocal about hybrid exp penalty. It sucks, i agree, but it's not gonna change because you want it to. Make yourself invaluable to groups, pull massive exp without wiping, get added to friends lists, repeat as necessary til 60.

You are definitely right. there are plenty of groups out here, and if you do well and friend people it isnt super tough. But there are definitely an over abundance of nec/mag/dru's on our server, and the penalty has a lot to do with it. I've kind of come to peace with the fact that it'll go away when it goes away (mainly because i've fallen in love with my Enchanter, love grouping love soloing and my class excels at both, with a minimal penalty) BUT its just a shit sandwich, and i hate them damn shit sandwich's :D

[guineapig]

Do they plan to stop releasing the expansions here on p1999 eventually before they get to what ruined the game?

Velious will be the last expansion on this server.

[Torqumada286]

Do they plan to stop releasing the expansions here on p1999 eventually before they get to what ruined the game?

No, they are going to let the Iksar in anyway.

Torqumada

[tristantio]

I think the abundance of nec/dru/mag is not due to any type of XP penalty, I believe it is because the players of those classes enjoy being able to solo and those are the best classes for it.

Even if you penalized nec/dru/mag 40% and the hybrids 0% I think you would still see a very similar amount of nec/dru/mag, as they are still the best solo classes at various aspects of the game.