Seafury nerfs, epic nerfs, etc

[Meriakh]

I was thinking about this recently, and just in general the nerfing of things like epics (sham tears which went from 30-75k), as well as seafuries, which are the most recent. For new players like me (who have only played for a handful of months), these nerfs represent serious difficulties. Prices on some items are astronomical - mage/necro epic 200k, torpor 110k, and the list goes on. As an old player its not an issue - you've made millions of plat through the years. You've gotten the rarest items that have been nerfed (holgresh elder beads, etc) and sold them for a ton, and have been able to amass wealth using those same nerfed spots (seafuries). You're in no rush to sell that epic MQ, and many guilds love to horde these same high value targets to get even more wealth.

So really, why would the devs nerf things like this, which then only makes things harder for new players? These nerfs seem to actively discourage new players from sticking to the game, and the big guilds seem to have little interest in sharing world spawns with other guilds or players, unless you pay insane fees. So unless you're willing to join one of the big guilds and then wait in line for 2-3 months for your turn, there is no reasonable way to complete your character without insane amounts of time invested. I feel like it would be much better to buff items, thus allowing new players to have a chance at these high value items and giving old players something to strive for. Is there a method to this madness of continually nerfing items, epics, and cash spots?

I guess I'm hoping for a bit of discussion on here as to what other people think - from my point of view I don't see many positives to recent nerfs.

[Linksfather]

Only 200k for mage epic? Where do I sign up?

[fadetree]

Well, my guess is they nerfed seafuries because they were sick and tired of all the squabbling. Don't know for sure though. Doesn't bother me any, I hate to play in those environments so I never went near the place. If you spend some time camping some high value stuff I bet you can still make monies.

[Itap]

I've been on the server for ~5 years and have never amassed more than 100k. You do realize this is (classic) EQ, right? Everything about this game is a time sink. It's up to you to decide how much time you are willing to spend on it.

[branamil]

This game is unfair for new people to the server. Not that it should be fair, but it isn't.

Camping items 5, 7 years ago was way, way more lucrative than camping items now.

Back then you could have camped rubicite, elder beads, mana stones, or fungi staves, a return of 10s of thousands of plat per hour. Now that they are taken out, nothing even remotely as lucrative exists.

Of course raiding back then was more rewarding, too. Back then you could have raided Sleeper's Tomb and gotten items that no longer drop. Worth millions of plat or even priceless items.

[Meriakh]

That is my take on things as well. I feel like at the very least new and interesting items should be introduced - this is for both older and newer players. Gives new players a chance for great returns and old players get to go for awesome items. Nerfing things just seems a bit backwards, as old players quit due to no interesting content and new players can't ever catch up because the options just aren't there anymore.

[loramin]

Is there a method to this madness of continually nerfing items, epics, and cash spots?

Yes, and it's very easy to explain. Project 1999 exists to re-create Everquest as it was in 1999(-2001). That includes a true progression of every patch/expansion along the original timeline, along with getting every last detail just right.

You can't just code something like that from scratch and get everything right off the bat, so the devs created a sort of beta server, where intrepid beta testers could find all the bugs so that when they made the real server, everything would be truly classic. Blue is that "beta" server.

Blue is where the devs make their best attempt, and then improve it over time. Every "nerf" you see is a result of them correcting mistakes they'd made previously (or it's a nerf Verant made in the classic timeline). While certain ones may seem to penalize or promote some players over others, that's not their goal. Classic Everquest is their goal.

Someday the final fruit of their labor, the Green/Recycle server, will be released. When it is released it will have none of the issues you're complaining about, because the devs will have learned from Blue and everything will be correct from the start.

[Telin]

Yes, and it's very easy to explain. Project 1999 exists to re-create Everquest as it was in 1999(-2001). That includes a true progression of every patch/expansion along the original timeline, along with getting every last detail just right.

You can't just code something like that from scratch and get everything right off the bat, so the devs created a sort of beta server, where intrepid beta testers could find all the bugs so that when they made the real server, everything would be truly classic. Blue is that "beta" server.

Blue is where the devs make their best attempt, and then improve it over time. Every "nerf" you see is a result of them correcting mistakes they'd made previously (or it's a nerf Verant made in the classic timeline). While certain ones may seem to penalize or promote some players over others, that's not their goal. Classic Everquest is their goal.

Someday the final fruit of their labor, the Green/Recycle server, will be released. When it is released it will have none of the issues you're complaining about, because the devs will have learned from Blue and everything will be correct from the start.

^

[Crashking]

All I have to say is the server doesn't have to be this way. Yes it being as old as it is the high levels are able to dominate it to a degree. I am with you OP in the fact I would to have loved to got my hands on some of the nerfed things, but alas I found the server way too late. I didn't get a chance to play back in 99 and experience all things classic and I missed it here as well. It sure would have been nice to make a trip to Sky without all the super gear that is available now -- because I have seen where basically 1 group can now go up and take on the content there. But over time on live this was the case as well with each additional expansion, past content just got easier and easier. The ability to then twink out a new toon made it so it could fly to the same heights as a main.

I for one will be campaigning for change and a more classic feeling of cooperative community but so far this a slow process of getting things in order. So let me just say - change will be coming and I hope others of like mind will join.

[Murri]

If anything nerfing seafuries will help things stay a little cheaper. Seafuries were putting just raw plat into the economy. Certain items may not be worth as much anymore because there are so many floating around but having just an insane amount of plat getting added to the econ, if anything, would raise the prices of all items. Go out and farm a ton of velious tradeskill mats if you want to make some money.

[skarlorn]

pras green wipe it clean 20(thecurrentyear)

[Jazzy]

In 5 years time you too will have millions of plat

Next

[commongood]

People have had their expectations warped a bit by the long life span of the server. Further more classic changes implemented (belatedly or not) by staff make some epics harder and some easier. But epics were never meant to be off the shelf supermarket items... go kill seafuries for 30-50 hours and then buy your shaman epic. Personally don't mind so much that this option is no longer as appealing (and no, I'm not some "fat cat" with hundreds of thousands of plat, let alone millions).

[Sonark]

It's interesting when min/maxing begins to apply to in-game currency.

[Jimjam]

The epics are meant to be seriously difficult and not for new players.

Don't be lame and buy your epic, especially if you are going to complain about people holding them hostage; don't enable the behaviour you are complaining about!

The game is about making friends, forming crews and having fun; not being pixel slaves.

[Sonark]

The epics are meant to be seriously difficult and not for new players.

Don't be lame and buy your epic, especially if you are going to complain about people holding them hostage; don't enable the behaviour you are complaining about!

The game is about making friends, forming crews and having fun; not being pixel slaves.You can't really blame anyone, though.

Doesn't the Magician epic have a line up that stretches ahead for years??

I'm sure other classes have similar bottlenecks that go beyond game design.

I agree with the spirit of your post, but the realities are harsher.

[skarlorn]

then all you gotta do is create and leverage political capital so that you receive the epic first. It's not hard, it's called befriending guild leaders and then manipulating them to receive loot over more deserving players.

[Baler]

All those guides saying Sea Fury 1k per hour ez,.
dead in the water. :|

Maybe on a fresh p99 server. ;)

[Alanus]

There's still plenty of plat farm spots out there, you just gotta find them.

Also, the less plat there is, the cheaper items will be.

[Baler]

There's still plenty of plat farm spots out there, you just gotta find them.

Also, the less plat there is, the cheaper items will be.

Yes there are still plenty of plat per hour spots.
No there is already too much plat in the system for items to be cheaper. But I do agree that most items at this point should not be, becoming more expensive.

[beargryllz]

You're supposed to complete these quests, not buy your epic

Even our casual guild completed the mage epic, it just takes a lot of time and patience to get a magi pasta spawn

These are called epic quests for a reason

[gprater]

This! also, fair isn't always equal.

You're supposed to complete these quests, not buy your epic

Even our casual guild completed the mage epic, it just takes a lot of time and patience to get a magi pasta spawn

These are called epic quests for a reason

[botrainer]

I was thinking about this recently, and just in general the nerfing of things like epics (sham tears which went from 30-75k), as well as seafuries, which are the most recent. For new players like me (who have only played for a handful of months), these nerfs represent serious difficulties. Prices on some items are astronomical - mage/necro epic 200k, torpor 110k, and the list goes on. As an old player its not an issue - you've made millions of plat through the years. You've gotten the rarest items that have been nerfed (holgresh elder beads, etc) and sold them for a ton, and have been able to amass wealth using those same nerfed spots (seafuries). You're in no rush to sell that epic MQ, and many guilds love to horde these same high value targets to get even more wealth.

So really, why would the devs nerf things like this, which then only makes things harder for new players? These nerfs seem to actively discourage new players from sticking to the game, and the big guilds seem to have little interest in sharing world spawns with other guilds or players, unless you pay insane fees. So unless you're willing to join one of the big guilds and then wait in line for 2-3 months for your turn, there is no reasonable way to complete your character without insane amounts of time invested. I feel like it would be much better to buff items, thus allowing new players to have a chance at these high value items and giving old players something to strive for. Is there a method to this madness of continually nerfing items, epics, and cash spots?

I guess I'm hoping for a bit of discussion on here as to what other people think - from my point of view I don't see many positives to recent nerfs.


Even on seasoned players dont really have the money too. There's a handful of people who control the market on items/epic items, when they set the price, it never comes down until other means of looting said items becomes easier and not cock blocked. Sadly Mage epic is random luck. But other items are really just cock blocked by a handful of people who can commonly farm the mob(s) who drop said items. Older and new players both have the issue of making plat.

[Trazic]

Yes there are still plenty of plat per hour spots.
No there is already too much plat in the system for items to be cheaper. But I do agree that most items at this point should not be, becoming more expensive.

Actually I believe that over a long enough time span item prices will drop.

Platinum inflation went down with the nerf but item inflation will continue on as it always has. Heck, item inflation could conceivably go up if the people who normally camped seafuries decide to spend their time camping item drops to sell to players instead now.

It could take a long time to see the effects though. Maybe even longer than the remaining lifespan of the server.

[Loke]

Manastones used to go for 20k
Rubicite was never super expensive
Elder beads at one point were going for about 20k

Yes, someone from the early day could have farmed a ton of platinum, but you're ignoring the 6 years of time they would have had to sit on those items waiting for them to increase in price.

On the flip side, Fungi Tunics used to go for 150k, now they go for like 45k. SSoYs used to go for 10k+, now you can probably get them for damn near free. FBSS was the only realistic dropable haste item and went for upwards of 12k, but goes for like 1/4 of that now. Dragon haste was unobtainable for the vast majority of players. Epics were the same. They weren't expensive, you simply couldn't get certain ones unless you were in certain guilds.

Look, its limited supply with near unlimited demand. I've been here since early 2010 and there are some items I want, but will never have, and I've spent most of my time here in top tier raiding guilds. If you can't find a way to have fun with what you have, you're not going to enioy this server and should probably look for entertainment else where.

Imo as someone who has been here a long time, it has never been easier for a new person to get started than it is right now.

[Baler]

mana stone is worth 200k imo
Fungi's still drop and the server is flooded with them 30k-40k

Hate if you're a EC flipper.

[Lhancelot]

...it's called befriending guild leaders and then manipulating them to receive loot over more deserving players.

This is pretty much the easiest way to get your epic and other ingame goals accomplished that require a zerg of nerds. It's sad, but true. :(


However!

If you find that you are not willing to trade your balls and true self identity to a master-nerd and his zergling horde for big phat pixels, you do have other ways to make plats to buy your epic and other big phat pixels;

-You can create a druid and port for plats. Also, PL for plats.

-You can become a fatcat-reseller. Anyone can do this, it just takes time. Buy items for cheap, sell for more than you bought it for. Over time, you will build plat equity.

-You can farm smaller solo item camps, like Earring of Esssence/Idol of the Thorned in Droga. There are many items worth 2-3k, you can farm in assorted dungeons.

-You can farm Jboots. Each MQ sells for 6-7k.

[maskedmelonpai]

Add a TRADEABLE (or maybe not) Guise of the Deceiver vendor to EC for period of one week. Set price at 2mil platinum.

[Silken]

I never got an epic on any of my characters in 5 years of live, and I have never gotten one on P99. I feel that buying your epic is totally lame, and not for me, and I didn't have the time or effort required to get it back on live, and I sure don't now, so I have accepted the fact that I will just never have an epic.

I don't feel as though I enjoy the game any more or less than the players that spent all the time getting their epic, so I really don't care how much all that stuff costs. I guess what I am saying is, put in the effort to get your epic and the other things you want, or don't--but don't let it affect your enjoyment of the game!

[Ravager]

None of these things are required to play this game. But if you really want them just be patient. You'd be surprised how much you can get just by playing for fun of it.

[Swish]

If anything nerfing seafuries will help things stay a little cheaper. Seafuries were putting just raw plat into the economy. Certain items may not be worth as much anymore because there are so many floating around but having just an insane amount of plat getting added to the econ, if anything, would raise the prices of all items. Go out and farm a ton of velious tradeskill mats if you want to make some money.

This is true, but it also means inflation is where its at because of that, and now the uphill climb is steeper than it could have been for new players who now don't have the same opportunity as their predecessors.

[deleted] server has a much lower point of entry on things. Can buy jboots there for 4k instead of 7k+ etc as one example.

[Foxplay]

So really, why would the devs nerf things like this, which then only makes things harder for new players?

Because its Classic

Whine less, grind more, find a camp / something you can farm that has actually classic drop rates. Sea-furies where never suppose to drop as much as they did. Praise to the Classic hammer!

P99 is a strange EQ... be thankful epic's are sold (MQ) quite often on this server. If it was anything like the server I came from back in the day (Povar). There would be no viable path for solo players or non-raiders to EVER get their epics. On P99 there is that option

[turbosilk]

I was thinking about this recently, and just in general the nerfing of things like epics (sham tears which went from 30-75k), as well as seafuries, which are the most recent. For new players like me (who have only played for a handful of months), these nerfs represent serious difficulties. Prices on some items are astronomical - mage/necro epic 200k, torpor 110k, and the list goes on. As an old player its not an issue - you've made millions of plat through the years. You've gotten the rarest items that have been nerfed (holgresh elder beads, etc) and sold them for a ton, and have been able to amass wealth using those same nerfed spots (seafuries). You're in no rush to sell that epic MQ, and many guilds love to horde these same high value targets to get even more wealth.

So really, why would the devs nerf things like this, which then only makes things harder for new players? These nerfs seem to actively discourage new players from sticking to the game, and the big guilds seem to have little interest in sharing world spawns with other guilds or players, unless you pay insane fees. So unless you're willing to join one of the big guilds and then wait in line for 2-3 months for your turn, there is no reasonable way to complete your character without insane amounts of time invested. I feel like it would be much better to buff items, thus allowing new players to have a chance at these high value items and giving old players something to strive for. Is there a method to this madness of continually nerfing items, epics, and cash spots?

I guess I'm hoping for a bit of discussion on here as to what other people think - from my point of view I don't see many positives to recent nerfs.

There is no rush. Play the game and get the drops yourself vs pay to win.

[Nirgon]

I should be able to buy my epic for no more than 60k!

(lol)

[Troxx]

Manastones used to go for 20k
Rubicite was never super expensive
Elder beads at one point were going for about 20k

Yes, someone from the early day could have farmed a ton of platinum, but you're ignoring the 6 years of time they would have had to sit on those items waiting for them to increase in price.

On the flip side, Fungi Tunics used to go for 150k, now they go for like 45k. SSoYs used to go for 10k+, now you can probably get them for damn near free. FBSS was the only realistic dropable haste item and went for upwards of 12k, but goes for like 1/4 of that now. Dragon haste was unobtainable for the vast majority of players. Epics were the same. They weren't expensive, you simply couldn't get certain ones unless you were in certain guilds.

Look, its limited supply with near unlimited demand. I've been here since early 2010 and there are some items I want, but will never have, and I've spent most of my time here in top tier raiding guilds. If you can't find a way to have fun with what you have, you're not going to enioy this server and should probably look for entertainment else where.

Imo as someone who has been here a long time, it has never been easier for a new person to get started than it is right now.