Trochilic's Skean vs Frostbringer offhand threat

[Jence]

Hey just looking to see if it's worth the purchase of a Frostbringer if one already has a Skean for offhand threat procs? I know the frosty has a better damage ratio, I suppose my question is more on the procs involved.

Skean has a Clockwork Poison proc, which is poison counters + an apparent stun as well? How would that factor in vs. the frosty ac debuff + dd proc?

Just looking for some feedback regarding these weapons for offhand in particular. Thanks for the insight!

[skarlorn]

OK so some nerd will come in here and enumerate the actual hate generated by both procs, but here's all you need to know:

1) yes, clockwork poison is higher hate
2) use frostbringer in your offhand anyway
3) offhand has low proc rate
4) you will generate more consistent aggro with the Frostbringer quality ratio

I have had a warrior on this server since 2013. He's level 60 with epics and some velious gear, and has single handedly killed a guide. So I hope you will believe me and get that Frostbringer!

Good luck to you.

[Jimjam]

Skean is kunark vogue. With Velious out frostbringer is current vogue.

Still another 2 years before retro skean becomes vogue again.

Neither weapon is bad, either way.

[Samoht]

Yes, Frostbringer is an upgrade to Skean. Much better ratio and adds AC. The debuff on the proc helps raise DPS, as well. The hate on the proc is slightly lower, but off-hand procs aren't as frequent.

What are you using main-hand? Infestation or WESS?

[Jence]

Hey guys - thanks for all of the insight, it sounds like the consensus is for the frosty, especially being in this current expansion's vogue!

To answer your question Samoht - my warrior currently has infestation and skean bagged (using staff of battle for now since he just hit 25), but was just planning for when I will eventually need to use the proc weapons later on!

I will start slowly banking for the frosty, especially since the better ratio and added ac are a nice static upgrade!

[Samoht]

Frosty won't proc til 40, but you can use WESS + Infestation now.

[Troxx]

Averaged out in a long long fight skean proc is strong enough that it should beat frostbringer by a fair margin. Despite this, I consider frostbringer a clear upgrade and well worth the $. In a real world scenario frostbringer will give you more consistent threat via steady dps, and considering offhand proc rate, for offhand if either weapon were to proc you'd be golden. The challenge for the warrior is the randomness of procs. When procs fail you, melee threat is all you're left with.

WESS primary, Frostbringer offhand is the best realistic combo until you grab infestation and bridge into raid caliber weapons.

If you already have infestation skip Frostbringer. If you don't have a WESS - buy one. It's stronger aggro than infestation.

[Jimjam]

Infestation and Frostbringer look great coupled together. Slightly identikit though.

[Samoht]

Yeah, but Infestation is piercing, and you'll notice a difference in DPS/hits at 60 if you're still using it. WESS + Frostbringer is the better combo than Infestation + either one.

[Lhancelot]

Yeah, but Infestation is piercing, and you'll notice a difference in DPS/hits at 60 if you're still using it. WESS + Frostbringer is the better combo than Infestation + either one.

Like Jimjam said, I too enjoy how they look together. Frosty and Infestation.

Plus, I like how my ogre looks when he uses the Infestation, stabbing that huge sword like a dagger is awesome!

[Jimjam]

And I like how my weedy little Halfling can't lift this huge sword to swing it, so just ineffectually pokes around with it :D.

[Olarin]

As far as off-hands go, I prefer to use Infestation over Frostbringer as when it procs the mobs generally will stick to you unlike when Frostbringer procs. Often enough with full buffs my offhand will proc before my mainhand to make it important to have the highest aggro proc possible in offhand. I never got the feeling that Frostbringer's ratio increase and skill increase made it better for aggro in offhand despite those advantages.

[Cecily]

Skean was never a good weapon IMO.

[Jimjam]

Skean was never a good weapon IMO.

http://i.imgur.com/jqtfqaJ.jpg

[Troxx]

Yeah, but Infestation is piercing, and you'll notice a difference in DPS/hits at 60 if you're still using it. WESS + Frostbringer is the better combo than Infestation + either one.

For dps I agree, but for aggro infestation is much better than frosty.

[Cecily]

Not that I've ever leveled with one, but I think I'd be ok with a warrior using infest / frosty. Makes sense in my head. Dps + procs is the key to holding agro. Sacrificing dps for procs is way too unreliable.

[Olarin]

True a lower level warrior DPS is important for aggro due to less procs. But at the high end when your dex is maxed with buffs often enough or at least reasonably high, the 9/18 vs 12/22 offhand switch in dps doesn't make up for the lower proc aggro.

Once you're at the 50+ game and likely far before that you'll find your white damage increase alone is not going to get you aggro it's going to be your procs. That's when you start paying attention to getting those max dex buffs and dex gear to get as many procs as possible.

If you're able to get your hands on a Infestation, pair that with a WESS and you'll be set.

Another option that I never see listed anywhere is try to get your hands on a (also NOTRADE), Chelaki Whip from the rats in DN(Actual rats not the ratmen). It's basically Infestation with a slightly worse ratio but equivalent aggro proc.

[Troxx]

I'll be honest with you the longer I mess around with frostbringer the more impressed I am.

Duo with sham yesterday I tagged a mob with bow. He slowed with togors before mob hit camp. First swing proc'd frostbringer and it stuck to me like glue. Skean may *math* out to a higher number but 12/22 with a proc as strong as a slow cast is hard to argue with.

[Lojik]

I'll be honest with you the longer I mess around with frostbringer the more impressed I am.

Duo with sham yesterday I tagged a mob with bow. He slowed with togors before mob hit camp. First swing proc'd frostbringer and it stuck to me like glue. Skean may *math* out to a higher number but 12/22 with a proc as strong as a slow cast is hard to argue with.

Does it still register as "spell did not take hold" if a higher level person with FB procs on same mob before you?

[Naethyn]

Use the best stats and ratio weapon you have in your offhand. A slower weapon means less repost. The only time to care about a proc in your offhand is if it is a self buff. Also, holding aggro via dps (2h etc) requires you have a better haste item than who you are tanking for.

[Troxx]

Use the best stats and ratio weapon you have in your offhand. A slower weapon means less repost. The only time to care about a proc in your offhand is if it is a self buff. Also, holding aggro via dps (2h etc) requires you have a better haste item than who you are tanking for.

I strongly disagree. Offhand fires less than main hand but it still represents 33% of your total procs. Having something offhand with a capable proc will not only make you generate more threat with time but also 33% more likely to land that early proc to lock it down. As offhand doesn't get damage bonus and only results in approximately half the swings as mainland (DW check and DW + DA combo check) - its ratio generates at best only a small fraction of your melee threat generation. Ratio is more important than speed but the presence of a proc that generates modertate to high levels of threat is the most important component of your offhand. Stats should only be relevant when comparing weapons of the same ballpark threat and quality.

Routine threat generation succeeds or fails with weapon procs. Burning clickies is not viable the majority of the time. Planning on a caster to root relies on someone else doing something right. Players are unreliable. Well timed taunts will put you at top +1 (great right after a rash or slow) but won't amount to much when you're taunting past a lazy melee whose melee threat generation is superior to your own. In a perfect world those around you will play their characters well. But ... players are unreliable. We've all played this game enough to know there are plenty of rogues who don't evade and plenty of monks who don't flop drop when they should.

For badass raids where you're burning a mallet? Sure ... I guess stats and minimizing ripostes all the way. That's not a game most of us play though. It's also a cheesy/cheap way to play.

[Troxx]

Does it still register as "spell did not take hold" if a higher level person with FB procs on same mob before you?

I don't know honestly, but resisted spells or spells that don't take hold should generate the same threat as those that land fully.

[kaev]

I don't know honestly, but resisted spells or spells that don't take hold should generate the same threat as those that land fully.

Resisted spells give agro, yes. But "did not take hold" giving agro is not a safe assumption unless tested and/or confirmed by a dev, I don't think it did on live (tho my memory's well short of 100% reliable).

[Jimjam]

Ranger still pulls aggro a bunch with Earthcaller even on slowed mobs. While it could be the ratio, I suspect it is due to debuffs that don't take hold still generate aggro (i.e. the slow proc).

IIRC on live resists would generate 'a significant fraction' of hate that an unresisted spell would. Maybe 70%? Of course, this is not live, so anything could happen here.

[Naethyn]

I don't know honestly, but resisted spells or spells that don't take hold should generate the same threat as those that land fully.

It depends if it is a self buff or not. Cracked Claw of Zlandicar's proc will give you aggro if a shaman has already crippled the mob. Silver Whip of Rage will not give any aggro if you already have an enchanter rune.

[Troxx]

It depends if it is a self buff or not. Cracked Claw of Zlandicar's proc will give you aggro if a shaman has already crippled the mob. Silver Whip of Rage will not give any aggro if you already have an enchanter rune.

True. Whip of Rage will re-write itself for full aggro though.