We are in the last era of our timeline.

[Jimjam]

No further eras: confirmed(?)

we are in the last era of timeline (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2576654&postcount=13)

[Triiz]

Hasn't this always been confirmed? Am I missing the punchline?

Chardok 2.0 doesn't really bring any new detrimental spells, I think necro's get group DMF and SK's get skelly form that procs lifetap maybe a few other classes get spells? In the context of NPC spell casting, Velious being the last era seems right.

[Pyrocat]

I mean, yeah? The last big patch (which is almost assuredly the next patch) will be Chardok revamp, and then that's it. Maybe some bug fix patches after that, but this server since day 1 was always going to go up-to-but-not-release-Luclin.

[commongood]

Speaking of Chardok 2.0, what - if anything - will it mean for the ENC, CLR and WAR epics? Will royals be harder to do now or will nothing affect this?

[Troxx]

Warrior epic is functionally unimportant at this point. If they are harder to achieve the average warrior will not lose out on much. They're not obsolete, but it's more of a status symbol these days. The passive buff from blue is still useful, but easily purchased or hunted velious weapons will generate superior threat and damage.

[Rygar]

JimJam the dropper of Knowledge Bombs on the masses. You were better off quoting Nilbog further in that post confirming future servers. A lot of folks are worried that won't happen and a Daybreak conspiracy is preventing it.

[commongood]

Warrior epic is functionally unimportant at this point. If they are harder to achieve the average warrior will not lose out on much. They're not obsolete, but it's more of a status symbol these days. The passive buff from blue is still useful, but easily purchased or hunted velious weapons will generate superior threat and damage.

Thanks but I mean will they be harder to achieve?

[Skew]

Thanks but I mean will they be harder to achieve?

Blue blade kinda hard to replace till you get some uber ToV loot. Even then off-hand procs are so sporadic the blueblades +attk helps overall threat more than most ToV offhands.

[Fragged]

Warrior epic is functionally unimportant at this point. If they are harder to achieve the average warrior will not lose out on much. They're not obsolete, but it's more of a status symbol these days. The passive buff from blue is still useful, but easily purchased or hunted velious weapons will generate superior threat and damage.

Blueblade is bugged on p99 and gives like + 90 ATK and as such is the best choice for DPS weapon.

[commongood]

Will try again:

Will Royals be harder to kill once Chardok 2.0 is implemented. Either because news are in the way that require stronger raid force or for some other reason?

[maskedmelonpai]

Will try again:

Will Royals be harder to kill once Chardok 2.0 is implemented. Either because news are in the way that require stronger raid force or for some other reason?

well, Warriors get two swords for they epic, one is blue and it is still pretty useful even though there lotta better weapons out there. i dunno if anyone else mention this yet, but you can also fuse them which is really pretty neat. aside from the magician epic (lol gl w/that^^) there not really any other epics with a nifty mechanic liek that. why you keep asking the same question? :confused:

[Tipsyer]

Because he's asking about the encounter not the viability or usefulness of the epic.

Will royals be harder after the revamp?

[Baler]

Era based server and people don't understand that it stops at a certain era.

[commongood]

Because he's asking about the encounter not the viability or usefulness of the epic.

Will royals be harder after the revamp?

Thank you! I feel like I'm in a Monty Python sketch.

[Rygar]

My guess (no clue) is the encounter and difficulty of royals won't change, but will be harder to muster folks who don't want to ruin their Chardok faction (dreams of chasing down a spirit wracked cord and all that).

So in effect will become harder to get.

[GraveD]

Warrior epic is functionally unimportant at this point. If they are harder to achieve the average warrior will not lose out on much. They're not obsolete, but it's more of a status symbol these days. The passive buff from blue is still useful, but easily purchased or hunted velious weapons will generate superior threat and damage.

With the 2h changes that are coming soon, is it possible that the combined version of the warrior epic would be decent/viable?

[skarlorn]

Warrior epic will always be important and get you laid. Hope this clears things up.

[commongood]

My guess (no clue) is the encounter and difficulty of royals won't change, but will be harder to muster folks who don't want to ruin their Chardok faction (dreams of chasing down a spirit wracked cord and all that).

So in effect will become harder to get.

This seems like a valid - and fairly obvious - reason why it will get "harder". Not sure why I didn't think about it.

[Daldaen]

Blue blade kinda hard to replace till you get some uber ToV loot. Even then off-hand procs are so sporadic the blueblades +attk helps overall threat more than most ToV offhands.

You are aware your ATK has no bearing on your hate building right?

DPS - Yes. Aggro - No.

[Triiz]

My guess (no clue) is the encounter and difficulty of royals won't change, but will be harder to muster folks who don't want to ruin their Chardok faction (dreams of chasing down a spirit wracked cord and all that).

So in effect will become harder to get.

I would guess anyone who is gainfully employed will give up on that dream fairly quickly. I quit before it was available on live, but from reading about it one of the spawns for the 2nd ring is a 3 day spawn so unless that is wrong there will be ~120 of those rings maximum per year. The "sock everything" crowd should have all their alts a Cord sometime around 2025.

[waltjig]

You are aware your ATK has no bearing on your hate building right?

DPS - Yes. Aggro - No.

So you are saying DPS has no bearing on hate generation?

[Rygar]

So you are saying DPS has no bearing on hate generation?

I believe I read this as well, high meta neckbeards can confirm. But the amount of melee damage you do is irrelevant, even the amount of times you hit the mob is irrelevant. Hate is generated off a melee swing, period. So faster weapons are always the way to go for threat (when not factoring in procs).

To be clear, you swing at a mob 50 times and miss all 50, doing zero damage. You generate the same threat as hitting the mob all 50 times and doing 5,000 damage.

Would like neckbeard confirmation of the above.

[Troxx]

Blue blade kinda hard to replace till you get some uber ToV loot. Even then off-hand procs are so sporadic the blueblades +attk helps overall threat more than most ToV offhands.

+attack has no bearing on threat. DPS? Yes. But threat is based off of potential damage only, not whether or not you hit or how much you hit for.

Just figured I'd clarify.

[Skew]

I believe I read this as well, high meta neckbeards can confirm. But the amount of melee damage you do is irrelevant, even the amount of times you hit the mob is irrelevant. Hate is generated off a melee swing, period. So faster weapons are always the way to go for threat (when not factoring in procs).

To be clear, you swing at a mob 50 times and miss all 50, doing zero damage. You generate the same threat as hitting the mob all 50 times and doing 5,000 damage.

Would like neckbeard confirmation of the above.

You are aware your ATK has no bearing on your hate building right?

DPS - Yes. Aggro - No.

I thought on live it worked that threat worked off possible damage per swing. So not just speed of weapon or DPS that lands but total threat is the threat of effective DPS.

[Rygar]

I thought on live it worked that threat worked off possible damage per swing. So not just speed of weapon or DPS that lands but total threat is the threat of effective DPS.

I'm not sure about that to be honest, but that description sounds a bit quirky, because any tank leading off with a 2h weapon would most likely generate more threat out the gate than anyone dual wielding. Then factoring ripostes with a 2h weapon would make 'potential damage' threat seem viable compared to dual wield. I don't recall seeing any warriors use 2hs / 2hb for threat outside of Vanilla EQ.

I'm no parse monkey though, don't know how quickly a dual wield 'potential damage' threat model would overtake a 2h weapon.

Also not sure how they would factor in damage bonus, crits, crippling blows, etc.

[Samoht]

+attack has no bearing on threat. DPS? Yes.

But threat is based off of potential damage only, not whether or not you hit or how much you hit for.

These two statements contradict each other because higher attack means higher potential damage. Threat per swing is based on how much damage you could do, not how much you actually do, so raising attack indirectly raises threat, but probably not by as much as raising your weapon damage would.

[Daldaen]

These two statements contradict each other because higher attack means higher potential damage. Threat per swing is based on how much damage you could do, not how much you actually do, so raising attack indirectly raises threat, but probably not by as much as raising your weapon damage would.

This is false.

The hate per swing is based on the weapon alone. The ATK of the player wielding the weapon is irrelevant to the hate calculation.

Weapon DMG and DMG Bonus are the factors in hate per swing. As a result, certain 2handers generate a very substantial amount of raw aggro just through swings. Because they have high damage bonuses.

[Rygar]

This is false.

The hate per swing is based on the weapon alone. The ATK of the player wielding the weapon is irrelevant to the hate calculation.

Weapon DMG and DMG Bonus are the factors in hate per swing. As a result, certain 2handers generate a very substantial amount of raw aggro just through swings. Because they have high damage bonuses.

Wise one, can you read my earlier comments in this thread... I thought 'missed swings' counted as well. Say you have a 30/40 weapon with a 30 weapon DMG bonus on it.

I swing 10 times and miss all 10. Does it still view my misses as 'potential damage', so threat would be: 30 base damage x 10 swings = 300 + (30 weapon DMG Bonus x 10 swings = 300), result being 600 Hate generated (even though I didn't hit mob once).

Likewise, same scenario above, I hit mob 10 times with same weapon and generate 1,000 damage, my hate still remains at 600?

Would seem my earlier comments about just a melee swing generating hate is wrong then, as base dmg + weapon bonus dmg play a factor into hate calculation (not just weapon delay)?

[Troxx]

These two statements contradict each other because higher attack means higher potential damage. Threat per swing is based on how much damage you could do, not how much you actually do, so raising attack indirectly raises threat, but probably not by as much as raising your weapon damage would.

Threat per swing is based on potential damage, neither of which are based on your attack. +attack does NOT increase threat potential. Your threat potential is based on max possible damage (ie ratio) and delay (damage bonus). +Attack does not increase max damage, just your chance of max damage per swing (higher average DI).

+Attack does not increase your melee white damage threat. That is only ratio and haste (factoring in damage bonus per level).

This is basic EQ shit.

Threat for a 30/30 2hander with 200 attack and Threat for a 30/30 2hander with 2,000,000 attack value (assuming equal double attack rates) are equal. Actual damage dealt is impacted by attack because it affects your chance to hit, DB, and DI (1-20) ...

Basic. EQ. Shit.

[Rygar]

Basic. EQ. Shit.

Don't mean to ruin your cool mic drop moment, but this is advanced level stuff. Lot of vets not still understanding EQ dynamics despite years of play time. Part of what made EQ so great, a bit of mystery and confusion of how stuff worked.

Nevermind this is P99, could be done tweaks we don't know about.

I'm sure WoW has all their weapons ranked and categorized by threat, damage, etc and plug-ins that will display every single formula and hold your hand into choosing the best item for your class.

All this meta knowledge in P99 starting to make me sad!

[maskedmelonpai]

I believe I read this as well, high meta neckbeards can confirm. But the amount of melee damage you do is irrelevant, even the amount of times you hit the mob is irrelevant. Hate is generated off a melee swing, period. So faster weapons are always the way to go for threat (when not factoring in procs).

To be clear, you swing at a mob 50 times and miss all 50, doing zero damage. You generate the same threat as hitting the mob all 50 times and doing 5,000 damage.

Would like neckbeard confirmation of the above.

questionably well informed (and good looking) casual checking in here to mostly confirm you post. it actually work liek this:

threat = 2xweapon_dmg+dmg_bonus

there you have it. now we can stop with all the aggro mechanic nonsense and get back on topic with the warrior epic discussion. personally, i liek it a lot, but that just me.

[SiouxNation]

Warrior epic will always be important and get you laid. Hope this clears things up.

Lucky you.

[Rygar]

questionably well informed (and good looking) casual checking in here to mostly confirm you post. it actually work liek this:

threat = 2xweapon_dmg+dmg_bonus

there you have it. now we can stop with all the aggro mechanic nonsense and get back on topic with the warrior epic discussion. personally, i liek it a lot, but that just me.

We already answered the question: warrior epic is not worth the effort to obtain, chase after ToV gear

[HippoNipple]

Will try again:

Will Royals be harder to kill once Chardok 2.0 is implemented. Either because news are in the way that require stronger raid force or for some other reason?

Stop being a bitch and interrupting these guy's conversation. They are discussing the chances of getting laid by having a blue sword on an 18 year old elf simulator.

[fadetree]

+attack has no bearing on threat. DPS? Yes. But threat is based off of potential damage only, not whether or not you hit or how much you hit for.

Just figured I'd clarify.

True, its potential damage per swing, not actual damage, meaning it doesn't take the +atk into account.

[commongood]

Stop being a bitch and interrupting these guy's conversation. They are discussing the chances of getting laid by having a blue sword on an 18 year old elf simulator.

I know, I was way out of line

[Daldaen]

Wise one, can you read my earlier comments in this thread... I thought 'missed swings' counted as well. Say you have a 30/40 weapon with a 30 weapon DMG bonus on it.

I swing 10 times and miss all 10. Does it still view my misses as 'potential damage', so threat would be: 30 base damage x 10 swings = 300 + (30 weapon DMG Bonus x 10 swings = 300), result being 600 Hate generated (even though I didn't hit mob once).

Likewise, same scenario above, I hit mob 10 times with same weapon and generate 1,000 damage, my hate still remains at 600?

Would seem my earlier comments about just a melee swing generating hate is wrong then, as base dmg + weapon bonus dmg play a factor into hate calculation (not just weapon delay)?
Yes, in the scenario where you hit every swing and the scenario where you miss every swing, the hate generated is identical.

This is easily put on display during the Zun'Muram Tkarish Zyk fight in Txevu. The mob is immune to all forms of Melee damage and all spells not flagged unresistable. But warriors generate enough aggro regardless.

When it comes to Hate in EQ, the calculations are almost all front loaded. Meaning they occur before any RNG fuckery can happen. So for example all hate for weapon aggro is calculated before the miss/hit or ATK vs AC rolls can be done. Likewise for spells, all hate done by those is calculated before the Resist/hit and any partial hits in the case of DDs.

This is why SKs can generate aggro on Snare immune mobs even spamming Clinging Darkness. This is also why wizards can drop aggro using Concussion even if the mob is Magic immune and Resists every spell. Also why the fact that Devs thought they needed to create the spell Cinder Jolt for rangers based off fire resist, when they already had Jolt based off magic resist just goes to show sometimes they have no idea about the basic mechanics of their game.

Spells all have their own base Hate value and whether it hits or how much for is irrelevant to how much Hate is generated.

[Daldaen]

We already answered the question: warrior epic is not worth the effort to obtain, chase after ToV gear

If they ever get around to capping proc hate from weapons, the epic 2h rivals most non-SoD combinations in terms of pure aggro generates due to the high DMG bonus on the item.

[Whirled]

.... discussing the chances of getting laid by having a blue sword on an 18 year old elf simulator.

1 Vote for post of the year^

[Kaezyr D`Shiv]

...This is also why wizards can drop aggro using Concussion even if the mob is Magic immune and Resists every spell...

Is this still the case? I mean it seems like it is as I use Concussion frequently on raids. I thought I saw a fairly recent patch message saying something about this not working like it used to though

[Troxx]

Don't mean to ruin your cool mic drop moment, but this is advanced level stuff. Lot of vets not still understanding EQ dynamics despite years of play time. Part of what made EQ so great, a bit of mystery and confusion of how stuff worked.

Nevermind this is P99, could be done tweaks we don't know about.

I'm sure WoW has all their weapons ranked and categorized by threat, damage, etc and plug-ins that will display every single formula and hold your hand into choosing the best item for your class.

All this meta knowledge in P99 starting to make me sad!

Sorry for being overly assertive, but sometimes I just get sick of Samoht's BS. He's insulting and borderline abusive to other poster's here. His ego is megalithic and he seems to have a fetish for arguing (whether he's right or wrong). He's often right but not infrequently wrong. On this topic, he's flatly ignorant, and I'm happy to call him on it.

From time to time, narcissists need to be brought down to planet earth.

[Daldaen]

Is this still the case? I mean it seems like it is as I use Concussion frequently on raids. I thought I saw a fairly recent patch message saying something about this not working like it used to though

Yea. The best mob to test this on is a black reaver. They're 100% immune to magic and don't hit too exceptionally hard. Pull aggro with a few Lure of Ice chain casts, have the tank turn off attack/don't taunt, and then cast a few concussions.

One or two casts in you should see the black reaver refocus it's attention on the tank even though he has done nothing to build hate in the interim. That's because the -400 Hate of Concussion is calculated before the spell resist roll is performed.

[Samoht]

Sorry for being overly assertive, but sometimes I just get sick of Samoht's BS. He's insulting and borderline abusive to other poster's here. His ego is megalithic and he seems to have a fetish for arguing (whether he's right or wrong). He's often right but not infrequently wrong. On this topic, he's flatly ignorant, and I'm happy to call him on it.

From time to time, narcissists need to be brought down to planet earth.

Oh, look, another one for the fan club. Do you happen to have a link to my specific post that changed your life so much? I'd love to bask in the glory that it's reduced you to a pile of loathing and hatred. Or should I just return the favor and start calling you names when I correct the bullshit you post?

[SpinFin]

Warrior epic is absolutely worth achieving.

The only ToV weapon that should be used during a serious tanking role encounter ( as a general rule of thumb ) is Trident of the Deep Sea. Every other ToV option is a dps toy or situational use tool. If you cannot obtain Trident, make effort towards a Sword of the Shissar.

If you use blue blade while tanking a high profile target, you're wrong.

[SpinFin]

Yea. The best mob to test this on is a black reaver. They're 100% immune to magic

Is this accurate?

Would extreme high MR be a better statement?

Vyemm Warrior sword proc lands everytime, on black reavers.

[Troxx]

Oh, look, another one for the fan club. Do you happen to have a link to my specific post that changed your life so much? I'd love to bask in the glory that it's reduced you to a pile of loathing and hatred. Or should I just return the favor and start calling you names when I correct the bullshit you post?

From time to time, narcissists ...

How quaintly predictable.

I expected no more or less from you.

[jpetrick]

Is this accurate?

Would extreme high MR be a better statement?

Vyemm Warrior sword proc lands everytime, on black reavers.

That proc is unresistable. I believe that T-staff proc lands on reavers as well.

[Samoht]

How quaintly predictable.

I expected no more or less from you.

You're not very smart, are you. If a simple hyperbole and a couple of metaphors confuse you so much, I'd hate to see you actually try to have meaningful conversation with anybody about anything besides EverQuest.

[Troxx]

Symptoms
By Mayo Clinic Staff
Narcissistic personality disorder is one of several types of personality disorders. Personality disorders are conditions in which people have traits that cause them to feel and behave in socially distressing ways, limiting their ability to function in relationships and other areas of their life, such as work or school.

If you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may feel a sense of entitlement — and when you don't receive special treatment, you may become impatient or angry. You may insist on having "the best" of everything — for instance, the best car, athletic club or medical care.

At the same time, you have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation. To feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make yourself appear superior. Or you may feel depressed and moody because you fall short of perfection.

Many experts use the criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), published by the American Psychiatric Association, to diagnose mental conditions. This manual is also used by insurance companies to reimburse for treatment.

DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner
Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal and value yourself more than you value others.

When to see a doctor

When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may not want to think that anything could be wrong — doing so wouldn't fit with your self-image of power and perfection. People with narcissistic personality disorder are most likely to seek treatment when they develop symptoms of depression — often because of perceived criticisms or rejections.

If you recognize aspects of your personality that are common to narcissistic personality disorder or you're feeling overwhelmed by sadness, consider reaching out to a trusted doctor or mental health provider. Getting the right treatment can help make your life more rewarding and enjoyable.

[zanderklocke]

My Dad worked at Mayo Clinic. He's retired though.

[maskedmelonpai]

*sits down on the empty couch and glances uncomfortably around.*

well, if I gonna be TOTALLY honest, i think one those actually describe me, but it don't make me happy and, well the rest it don't really make much sense.



*swallows uncomfortably and stares nervously straight ahead*























may I go now?

[Samoht]

I can't help but wonder how you made it through that entire block of text without realizing that you qualify more than I do, lol.

It's. Basic. Self. Awareness.

[Daldaen]

Is this accurate?

Would extreme high MR be a better statement?

Vyemm Warrior sword proc lands everytime, on black reavers.

Rage of the Sky

Slot Description
1 Decrease Hitpoints by 133 (L1) to 179 (L24)

Mana 0
Range to Target 60
Casting Time 0.00
Fizzle Time 0.00
Recast Time 0.00
Duration Instant
Target Type Single
Spell Type Detrimental
Resist Unresistable
Classes None

Cast on you You have been force struck.
Cast on other has been force struck.

[Pokesan]

Warrior epic will always be important and get you laid. Hope this clears things up.

its a goddann lightsaber its bis forever END OF DISCUSSION

[indiscriminate_hater]

You're not very smart, are you. If a simple hyperbole and a couple of metaphors confuse you so much, I'd hate to see you actually try to have meaningful conversation with anybody about anything besides EverQuest.

watch out guys we have an internet smart person here

[Daldaen]

its a goddann lightsaber its bis forever END OF DISCUSSION

https://i.imgur.com/Eo0xS5J.jpg

Really excited to see the BBoB + War Epic combination pop up in the next few weeks. Look at how incredible that light saber looks.

Plus there's a bard Epic in the background. Man I love how unique Epics look. Hits me right in the feels when everyone's rocking the same Epic and they all look like the rest of their class.

[Pokesan]

https://i.imgur.com/Eo0xS5J.jpg

Really excited to see the BBoB + War Epic combination pop up in the next few weeks. Look at how incredible that light saber looks.

Plus there's a bard Epic in the background. Man I love how unique Epics look. Hits me right in the feels when everyone's rocking the same Epic and they all look like the rest of their class.

i said no more dumb opinions and i frickin meant it

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Samoht with the negative self esteem levels, guy can never walk away from an argument, especially when he is wrong.

[Rogean]

Hate is based on potential damage, as in max hit. (not exactly "max hit = hate" but it's formula is based on max hit).

ATK does not increase hate, because ATK does not increase your max hit. ATK rolls against AC to give a chance for a higher DI*20 actual damage.

Also, ripostes don't generate hate.

[Muggens]

Big Rog Dawg - High Five

[Lojik]

Like Rogean really knows

[Naethyn]

Red Epic + Trident of the Deep Sea is the best weapons available. I'll usually swap Trident with a Blade of Carnage after a few procs land. Versus unslowable mobs I will have Trident in primary with a Blade of Carnage in offhand. Jaelen's Katana can replace Blade of Carnage.

Blue epic is confirmed the highest dps offhand even against a 14/19. The attack bonus it gives to your primary weapon with triple attack is too great. Two handers only do more dps if in precision/berserk, but also generate far less aggro which is why most warriors use a 2h while someone else is tanking the dragon.

[skarlorn]

someday i can use my wavecrasher/red epic prause it

[KEWLGET]

it does not matter what weapon generates the most hate when u click a midnight mallet on every single raid boss 5 times

warrior epic sucks

[Naethyn]

it does not matter what weapon generates the most hate when u click a midnight mallet on every single raid boss 5 times

At the highest levels a Rogue with Primal Avatar and max buffs will easily out aggro 5 mallets in about 45 seconds or less. Weapon Ratio absolutely matters. Procs also help.

[KEWLGET]

if he's not evading, sure

i wasn't aware we were modeling this discussion around people being retards

[Jimjam]

Also, ripostes don't generate hate.

Yah, worked this one out when blowing Furious Disc on a train of mobs so I could establish aggro and give a few seconds for CC to restore order to the camp.

The ripostes... they did nothing!

[Skew]

At the highest levels a Rogue with Primal Avatar and max buffs will easily out aggro 5 mallets in about 45 seconds or less. Weapon Ratio absolutely matters. Procs also help.


Every class dealing damage (wizards/rangers/rogues/monks) have simple ways to drop aggro so thats a redundant argument. Clickies have totally trivialized aggro management - its other warriors that are the greatest issue when tanking (so raid guilds make sure theyre using 2h or non proc or even slow peddling it on AOW) and making sure one of them doesnt pull aggro and mess the CH chain up before theyre due.
Rogue evade though is the best aggro dump of those mentioned and i find jolt the worst.