Is a "No Lock-Down" Rule Possible?

[loramin]

Back in the day the king camp in Sebilis was all but locked down for an extended period of time, creating a monopoly on Fungi Tunics. Going back farther, even when the server had a much lower population the mana orb camp was reportedly locked down also. And I'd imagine that more experienced P99ers can share other lock-down stories.

But here's the thing: no one I've ever met in P99 thinks players locking down a camp is a good thing (and to be clear I mean for weeks at a time, not some guy holding a camp all Saturday). The idea is universally hated, and it's also something that didn't happen (that I ever heard of at least) on live during the classic period.

So with green coming "someday", this made me wonder: why doesn't P99 have an anti-lock-down rule? Then I thought, well maybe it's impossible to write such a rule that works, is fair, and isn't a nightmare for the staff to enforce? But then again, maybe it is.

TLDR: Would it be possible to add a rule on P99 to prevent players from monopolizing camps for weeks at a time, and if so what would that rule be?

[Mead]

What camp is being locked down for weeks at a time at this point?

[Baler]

+1 for OPs idea.
Good idea but needs more detail and explanation.

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I think most of the problem is that the same people are locking down the same camps at peak population time. A lot of places are open at the lowest dip of low pop, but at that time it's difficult to find people to camp it with you.

Maybe some kind of rotation application like guilds do for raids. lol
That way the general public doesn't stand a chance to kill these mobs!
Then skarlorn can write up an open camps agreement!

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TL : DR- Play Nice Policy

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WTS Manastones and DE masks 1 mill plat each.
PM WutNamePolicy <Entrepreneurs>

[loramin]

What camp is being locked down for weeks at a time at this point?

None, that I'm aware of. The concern is more about when Green comes out someday, as it will have mana orbs and similar targets (along with, presumably, a significantly larger server population).

EDIT: Also +1 to Baler's idea, but since I thought most rotations were entered into voluntarily, I'm not clear on how they'd be staff enforced.

[Bones]

Manastone camp was pretty brutal on p99 but there was only like 50-200 people ever on at a time during those days so it wasn't as noticeable. People would camp it, pass it to a friend, then that friend would pass the camp back to them when they logged back on. Rinse and repeat x10. But because the population was so low and p99 was fresh and relatively unknown except to people who were already on EQEMU pretty much everybody got a chance to camp it.

If/when green99 comes out I suspect manastone and guise camps will be a clusterfook beyond imagination.

[Triiz]

I get the idea, but I don't see how it could realistically be implemented without a GM at X item camp 24 hours a day 7 days a week which obviously wont happen.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but from a casual standpoint I imagine camping a Manastone on a new server to be a pipe dream for 95% of the server. People always talk about how bad camping AC is 7+ years into the server, I imagine Manastone/Guise would be that multiplied by at least 100.

I mostly play EST mornings, I never really get to play during the server "prime time", there is usually ~500 people on when I log in but it wouldn't even take 100 people to keep every valuable classic item perma-camped.

If you don't play p99 80+ hours a week you are at a huge disadvantage, that's just the reality of classic eq. Poopsockers gonna poop sock.

[Lhancelot]

TLDR: Would it be possible to add a rule on P99 to prevent players from monopolizing camps for weeks at a time, and if so what would that rule be?

I finally get to write it first!!!! Sorry Loramin...

THAT'S NOT CLASSIC!

Honestly though, I see no way they could enforce such a rule. They already have guide time monopolized by trying to monitor raids, how could they even begin to start trying to watch specific camps in the game?

All this would do is create constant petitions for every camp on the server. They would have petitions sent in complaining about that loser lvl 50 necro that farms orc1 and orc2 daily every morning for 4 hours, etc.

The petitions would never end.

[loramin]

I finally get to write it first!!!! Sorry Loramin...

THAT'S NOT CLASSIC!

I would argue that locking down camps isn't classic: I never even heard of such a thing on live during Velious (or even for awhile after). After all, people in classic didn't know that mana orbs, guises, holgresh elder beads, etc. were going away, so no one had any reason to lock them down for an extended period of time. Plus, I feel like (based on everything else they did) GMs on live would have gotten involved if someone was preventing everyone else on a server from accessing (non-raid) content for weeks or months at a time.

But as for enforcement, that was exactly the problem I ran into, and so I was hoping that someone with higher Intelligence than this dumb Barbarian might see a solution.

[Canelek]

Yeah, it will be a clusterfuck as long as some people can RMT them. And even without RMT activity, some folks view in-game currency and accomplishment as real life achievement, as sad as that is.

That said, I guess I'd rather have the (slim) opportunity of logging in at a weird hour and finding one of those camps open than bullshit like TLPs where the items simply do not exist from the getgo.

[GreldorEQ]

Passing camps to your friend is the problem - if they are just treated as the stormfeather camp is, or holgresh beads camps was, we wont have a problem.

Must be present to get the camp, your rank in line is the order in which you arrive (and stay) at the camp. 1st in line loots, logs, leaves or LDs*, next person in line gets the camp, end of story.

*LD treated as loss in line at the discretion of 2nd person in line

[Lhancelot]

I would argue that locking down camps isn't classic: I never even heard of such a thing on live during Velious (or even for awhile after). After all, people in classic didn't know that mana orbs, guises, holgresh elder beads, etc. were going away, so no one had any reason to lock them down for an extended period of time. Plus, I feel like (based on everything else they did) GMs on live would have gotten involved if someone was preventing everyone else on a server from accessing (non-raid) content for weeks or months at a time.

But as for enforcement, that was exactly the problem I ran into, and so I was hoping that someone with higher Intelligence than this dumb Barbarian might see a solution.

I mean it's not so much the behavior I was saying is classic, but admin trying to thwart such ingame activities, such as people camping items for too long. This is not classic.

I think perhaps you suffer a little from Rosy-Tinted-Glasses Syndrome when you reflect on the past and Everquest as many of us do.

I am pretty sure even back then when Velious was fresh, there were nerds capable of camping items for extreme periods of time and passing camps only to their friends.

The only way you avoid this is... Instances. And, THAT'S NOT CLASSIC either.

[NextToTheGods]

You can make mechanics and content classic, you can't make the player population classic, it's as simple as that.

It's also obvious, at least to me, that the staff are in the corner that wants to work for a server that replicates classic mechanics and content, not to right the wrongs of classic EQ or to make the population act as the population on live classic servers did (I don't regard pbaoe target cap nerf to have been implemented for this reason), and those who want/expect that are going to be sorely disappointed.

I haven't spent a minute on any of p99 blues major pre nerf item camps:
Manastone, Guise, Locket of Escape, Necklace of Superiority, Holgresh Elder Beads, Fungi Staff) but what I've heard is that they all were all messy clusterfucks on permanent lock down and I expect it to be even worse on green but I would be glad to be proven wrong.

[Lhancelot]

I haven't spent a minute on any of p99 blues major pre nerf item camps:
Manastone, Guise, Locket of Escape, Necklace of Superiority, Holgresh Elder Beads, Fungi Staff) but what I've heard is that they all were all messy clusterfucks on permanent lock down and I expect it to be even worse on green but I would be glad to be proven wrong.

I am the same. ^

The only camp I have ever sat at for hours was Jboots, and that almost always had a "list" in OOT or Sro when it had a set spawn there. I did that when I first started my druid ages ago, which was before velious but after manastones etc.

I also happened to take a break from p99 before Velious was released, so I missed out on holgresh beads too.

I missed all the good rare item camps! Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing now.

[Thugnuts]

Yeah, it will be a clusterfuck as long as some people can RMT them. And even without RMT activity, some folks view in-game currency and accomplishment as real life achievement, as sad as that is.

Careful, I got banned for saying this last month.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Not classic. NEXT!

[loramin]

Not classic. NEXT!

I mean it's not so much the behavior I was saying is classic, but admin trying to thwart such ingame activities, such as people camping items for too long. This is not classic.

I think perhaps you suffer a little from Rosy-Tinted-Glasses Syndrome when you reflect on the past and Everquest as many of us do.

True, but it's also possible to play here so long you forget what "classic" was actually like. Luckily I found this wonderful link to remind me (which I recommend checking out if only for the nostalgia): Kunark Era GM Guide (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4jUmfLZ0VsQJ:na_koa.tripod.com/stories/PandP0600.rtf+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)]Zone/Area).

Disruption - monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area rather than stealing from a specific player or group of players, ... refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by a CS Representative

Now of course, GMs on live Everquest were anything but uniform, and I'm sure interpretations of that clause (one of like five million, if you follow the link) varied greatly across servers. And even that clause doesn't specifically address players locking down a camp for weeks at a time (most likely because it wasn't even an issue back then).

But at the same time, EQ live was a paid product, and the last thing Verant wanted was isolated bad players ruining the fun for other (paying) customers. If you read the guidelines I linked that much is pretty clear.

Classic staff absolutely interceded in player issues, so it's not unreasonable to think that the staff here (especially when the whole server supports it) might do the same ... if there's a viable way for them to do so. That viable part is tricky though, because P99's all-volunteer team obviously has far less resources/staff than the live team did.

[Kesselring]

If green ever happens, there should be lines for certain camps. Youre next in line when the person(s) leave, you get the camp. Not their friends. This should be the same with everything. If you're physically at Ancient Cyclops camp waiting in line and nobody else is... you're next in line period. Not some arbitrary list. Nobody in a sane mind would argue with this logic. People are putting in time to WAIT for something they should have the next go at it. When the GM's go to look at who was there longer in zone, that's all that should matter during camp disputes. You don't get to pass off camps to people you want if there's people actively waiting right there. That's how it was on live, hell we had a line for scout back in the day too. There was a literal calendar full of player names on our servers forums for scout. Yes that isn't sitting there physically but we all agreed that waiting 10 hours per spawn physically was a bit much.

It's simple, nobody waiting in line for your camp? You give it to whomever the fuck you want.

[Illsiff]

Start a publicly visible list:

1) Create a Discord server.
2) Name it p99 poopsocking.
3) List all the poopsocking camps as channels. (These are easily searchable with ctrl + k.)
4) Make it publicly accessible to anyone who joins.
5) Create a few rules for etiquette, but keep it simple
6) Pray for cooperation
7) Pixelquest

I don't see it really working any other way.

[Evia]

Start a publicly visible list:

1) Create a Discord server.
2) Name it p99 poopsocking.
3) List all the poopsocking camps as channels. (These are easily searchable with ctrl + k.)
4) Make it publicly accessible to anyone who joins.
5) Create a few rules for etiquette, but keep it simple
6) Pray for cooperation
7) Pixelquest

I don't see it really working any other way.


I like this idea.

[Mead]

I get the idea, but I don't see how it could realistically be implemented without a GM at X item camp 24 hours a day 7 days a week which obviously wont happen.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but from a casual standpoint I imagine camping a Manastone on a new server to be a pipe dream for 95% of the server. People always talk about how bad camping AC is 7+ years into the server, I imagine Manastone/Guise would be that multiplied by at least 100.

I mostly play EST mornings, I never really get to play during the server "prime time", there is usually ~500 people on when I log in but it wouldn't even take 100 people to keep every valuable classic item perma-camped.

If you don't play p99 80+ hours a week you are at a huge disadvantage, that's just the reality of classic eq. Poopsockers gonna poop sock.

If anything you're realistic.


I finally get to write it first!!!! Sorry Loramin...

THAT'S NOT CLASSIC!

Honestly though, I see no way they could enforce such a rule. They already have guide time monopolized by trying to monitor raids, how could they even begin to start trying to watch specific camps in the game?

All this would do is create constant petitions for every camp on the server. They would have petitions sent in complaining about that loser lvl 50 necro that farms orc1 and orc2 daily every morning for 4 hours, etc.

The petitions would never end.


If green ever happens, there should be lines for certain camps. Youre next in line when the person(s) leave, you get the camp. Not their friends. This should be the same with everything. If you're physically at Ancient Cyclops camp waiting in line and nobody else is... you're next in line period. Not some arbitrary list. Nobody in a sane mind would argue with this logic. People are putting in time to WAIT for something they should have the next go at it. When the GM's go to look at who was there longer in zone, that's all that should matter during camp disputes. You don't get to pass off camps to people you want if there's people actively waiting right there. That's how it was on live, hell we had a line for scout back in the day too. There was a literal calendar full of player names on our servers forums for scout. Yes that isn't sitting there physically but we all agreed that waiting 10 hours per spawn physically was a bit much.

It's simple, nobody waiting in line for your camp? You give it to whomever the fuck you want.

One of the biggest issues with this type of rule implementation is the stress placed on the GMs. They're already stretched thin with the raid scene and the million rules that require a p99 licensed attorney. The last thing you want to do is add more rules to this place when they're having a hard enough time enforcing or probably even understanding the current rules themselves.

Unfortunately, obtaining things like manastone, guise, and fungi staff has rarely been attainable for the casual player. That's part of what makes this game the way it is. Be prepared for that to not change.

[Lhancelot]

Unfortunately, obtaining things like manastone, guise, and fungi staff has rarely been attainable for the casual player. That's part of what makes this game the way it is. Be prepared for that to not change.

Yep.

[loramin]

Unfortunately, obtaining things like manastone, guise, and fungi staff has rarely been attainable for the casual player. That's part of what makes this game the way it is. Be prepared for that to not change.
I guess it depends on when you're talking about and what you mean by casual. Arguably everyone in classic was "casual": nobody was pooping in socks in '99. Also no one knew these items would get nerfed ... but that cat's out of the bag now, and there's no way to put it back in.

Still even with everyone knowing about these items now, there's a big difference between "you literally cannot get this item unless (maybe) you log in at 4AM several nights in a row" vs. "it will take you hours and hours of waiting in line to even get the camp, and then you've got the RNG to deal with once you do". Even the latter will prevent 90% of the player base from ever getting such an item, but when someone locks the camp down it means 99.9% of the server won't get to camp the item. I don't believe that is in any way classic or an unavoidable part of the game.

One of the biggest issues with this type of rule implementation is the stress placed on the GMs. They're already stretched thin with the raid scene and the million rules that require a p99 licensed attorney. The last thing you want to do is add more rules to this place when they're having a hard enough time enforcing or probably even understanding the current rules themselves.

Amen. As I said, even if lockdowns would have been prevented on live (and again, read that GM manual and I think you'll agree they probably would have), we're not on live and we don't have a paid GM staff. So if we're going to prevent lockdowns here it has to work for the staff.

So far the simplest, least staff effort idea that I've heard amounts to "new rule: you can only pass a camp off to the next person who has been waiting in line, in zone." Staff already have to deal with fights over camps today, and I would imagine they have a way to find out how long someone has been in a zone, so I don't think this rule would add a huge amount of work for them, Maybe when it first gets added, but pretty soon everyone would learn that if you don't pass the camp properly you get petitioned, and once people learn that I think the staff would have no more fights over camps than they already do.

[Maner]

Even the elder bead line wasn't something the guides enforced and it was ignored multiple times by people locking the camp down within their own guilds.

[Maner]

That queue lol, reminds me of this >> https://i.imgur.com/uozjYdA.jpg

i remember getting on the list friday night and having my turn come up on monday

[Kesselring]

If anything you're realistic.







One of the biggest issues with this type of rule implementation is the stress placed on the GMs. They're already stretched thin with the raid scene and the million rules that require a p99 licensed attorney. The last thing you want to do is add more rules to this place when they're having a hard enough time enforcing or probably even understanding the current rules themselves.

Unfortunately, obtaining things like manastone, guise, and fungi staff has rarely been attainable for the casual player. That's part of what makes this game the way it is. Be prepared for that to not change.

There's no 'rule' that says you can pass the camp to whomever you want either. The rules state if someone else is trying to camp what you're camping or if you camping multiple things you have to compromise. So if you wait in line thats technically a player trying to get in on that camp and it has to be honored if theyve been waiting. Nothing in the rules say "you can pass camps to whoever you want". It should be a no brainer and theres no reason that GM's should have to be involved in on it as long as you act like a decent human being.

[Kesselring]

I guess it depends on when you're talking about and what you mean by casual. Arguably everyone in classic was "casual": nobody was pooping in socks in '99. Also no one knew these items would get nerfed ... but that cat's out of the bag now, and there's no way to put it back in.

Still even with everyone knowing about these items now, there's a big difference between "you literally cannot get this item unless (maybe) you log in at 4AM several nights in a row" vs. "it will take you hours and hours of waiting in line to even get the camp, and then you've got the RNG to deal with once you do". Even the latter will prevent 90% of the player base from ever getting such an item, but when someone locks the camp down it means 99.9% of the server won't get to camp the item. I don't believe that is in any way classic or an unavoidable part of the game.



Amen. As I said, even if lockdowns would have been prevented on live (and again, read that GM manual and I think you'll agree they probably would have), we're not on live and we don't have a paid GM staff. So if we're going to prevent lockdowns here it has to work for the staff.

So far the simplest, least staff effort idea that I've heard amounts to "new rule: you can only pass a camp off to the next person who has been waiting in line, in zone." Staff already have to deal with fights over camps today, and I would imagine they have a way to find out how long someone has been in a zone, so I don't think this rule would add a huge amount of work for them, Maybe when it first gets added, but pretty soon everyone would learn that if you don't pass the camp properly you get petitioned, and once people learn that I think the staff would have no more fights over camps than they already do.

Exactly that, GM's can see how long someone has been in zone. It's pretty easy to wait in line and pretty simple rule to follow. It's even more hardcore playstyle to physically wait in line for a camp. Nowhere would the rules imply passing a camp off to a friend is how it works. In fact I've been on frenzy in velks multiple times where this is exactly the case. Someone waits at the camp wanting to get it next, someone else tries to tell their friend to come take it from them and the ive seen the guy waiting in line win the GM's favor in a petition (at least so they told me, which i can't exactly confirm, but it makes sense).

[jpetrick]

I never even heard of such a thing on live during Velious (or even for awhile after). Plus, I feel like (based on everything else they did) GMs on live would have gotten involved if someone was preventing everyone else on a server from accessing (non-raid) content for weeks or months at a time.


There was a plat farmer on Tallon Zek that had Lodi on lock. If you wanted to finish your eyepatch you had to buy it from him. It was this dude's job so literally no one else got it.

GMs finally stopped him when whatever expansion after PoP came out.

Shit's classic. Lame. But classic.

[gizmo]

None, that I'm aware of. The concern is more about when Green comes out someday

It's classic but if y'all are still playing when Green finally comes out then you got bigger concerns

[Muggens]

Teachers pet/hall monitor meeting going on - get all ur lists and lines rdy in time for green99

[Illsiff]

Teachers pet/hall monitor meeting going on - get all ur lists and lines rdy in time for green99

I know who's calling in sick.

[Maner]

There's no 'rule' that says you can pass the camp to whomever you want either. The rules state if someone else is trying to camp what you're camping or if you camping multiple things you have to compromise. So if you wait in line thats technically a player trying to get in on that camp and it has to be honored if theyve been waiting. Nothing in the rules say "you can pass camps to whoever you want". It should be a no brainer and theres no reason that GM's should have to be involved in on it as long as you act like a decent human being.

Exactly that, GM's can see how long someone has been in zone. It's pretty easy to wait in line and pretty simple rule to follow. It's even more hardcore playstyle to physically wait in line for a camp. Nowhere would the rules imply passing a camp off to a friend is how it works. In fact I've been on frenzy in velks multiple times where this is exactly the case. Someone waits at the camp wanting to get it next, someone else tries to tell their friend to come take it from them and the ive seen the guy waiting in line win the GM's favor in a petition (at least so they told me, which i can't exactly confirm, but it makes sense).

The compromise rules have literally nothing to do woth making and enforcing a line for a camp. There are literally no rules that state you have to create and honor some player made line. Just because you can spin them that way doesn't make it true and I highly doubt your personal experience at frenzy even happened let alone set a precedence.

[Triiz]

I guess it depends on when you're talking about and what you mean by casual. Arguably everyone in classic was "casual": nobody was pooping in socks in '99.


My entire time on live was on Veeshan, and Fires of Heaven made some of the neckbeards on this server look like employed, productive citizens. I quit around the time Velious came out, but those guys made EQ their life from 1999-2001. A year or so ago I read an old Reddit post that was a story from Furor recalling how during Kunark he helped a guild do a CR in one of the Planes with his 20 personal Staves of Forbidden Rites. Those guys were not "casual" in any sense of the word.


Casuals may have been the majority, but poopsockers have always been a part of EQ.

[Lhancelot]

Exactly that, GM's can see how long someone has been in zone. It's pretty easy to wait in line and pretty simple rule to follow. It's even more hardcore playstyle to physically wait in line for a camp. Nowhere would the rules imply passing a camp off to a friend is how it works. In fact I've been on frenzy in velks multiple times where this is exactly the case. Someone waits at the camp wanting to get it next, someone else tries to tell their friend to come take it from them and the ive seen the guy waiting in line win the GM's favor in a petition (at least so they told me, which i can't exactly confirm, but it makes sense).

This is all bull crap. ^^^

It's been explained by admin that the person holding the camp CAN pass it to whoever they want.

Player made lists are only honored because the player holding the camp chooses to do so.

[Hasbinbad]

wasn't as noticeable.
Penoy held that camp for like 9 days and pulled dozens of manastones out of it for himself.

There was a guild that had it most of the rest of the time, do not remember their name, but it was certainly noticeable.

[Menden]

Haha, if a new server ever happens we'll just have nerfed items drop at launch and give out the cool stuff during GM events only. /s

[NegaStoat]

Haha, if a new server ever happens we'll just have nerfed items drop at launch and give out the cool stuff during GM events only. /s

I like that idea. Another thought is to simply make an expanded table of equal-level mobs that a key item would normally drop off of and rotate drop tables every 24 or 48 hours. You want a Guise of the Deceiver? Odd, it's not dropping in Lower Guk today... But somewhere in Cazic Thule, Permafrost, Kedge Keep, or even open world, it might make an appearance.

Not classic, I know. But no GM is going to want to referee the manastone camp on a fresh server either. Good luck with that.

[Menden]

^^^

The camp disputes would be worse than OOT AC.

[Canelek]

My entire time on live was on Veeshan, and Fires of Heaven made some of the neckbeards on this server look like employed, productive citizens. I quit around the time Velious came out, but those guys made EQ their life from 1999-2001. A year or so ago I read an old Reddit post that was a story from Furor recalling how during Kunark he helped a guild do a CR in one of the Planes with his 20 personal Staves of Forbidden Rites. Those guys were not "casual" in any sense of the word.


Casuals may have been the majority, but poopsockers have always been a part of EQ.

Sort of. It was mostly the case of them being so far ahead of everyone else. Sure, there were a couple other guilds close, but once Velious landed, I rarely saw them (as an officer of a lower tier raiding guild). That said, there was indeed the occasional run-in for a contested mob. But more often, I'd find my guild tangling with guilds that were nipping at the heels of FoH.

Alas, I do not think any of the Veeshan FoH alum still play p99 due to Agnarr in anticipation of Pantheon.

And as far as neckbearding, man, so many of us did exactly that!

[beargryllz]

I mean, if someone really does want to spend 96 hours in front of their computer with a towering pillar of empty, half-crushed monster cans and crusty Kleenex to lord over, can we really judge them? This is Everquest, after all

[Mortiis]

There was a plat farmer on Tallon Zek that had Lodi on lock. If you wanted to finish your eyepatch you had to buy it from him. It was this dude's job so literally no one else got it.

GMs finally stopped him when whatever expansion after PoP came out.

Shit's classic. Lame. But classic.


I remember this. Man, it's been awhile. I can't remember the asking price either, but I know at the time it wasn't cheap.

[Legidias]

You dont even have to "hand off" a camp to a friend to get past a list.

Invite said friend to group, as in "oh hey camp this WITH me".

Leave camp 5 mins later. "lul wife called, car doesn't start at work". Its not a hand off, its a continuation. Not really GM enforceable?

[Tuurin]

If you want to get a sneak peak at what this is going to look like, watch how Spirit Wracked Cord spawns go once the Chardok revamp drops.

[Whirled]

Implement a token to all magic items like a hidden lore item. If they try to loot another, they get disconnected, but only after a big box flashes on screen stating the obvious greedy gesture and then LD'ing them for a 24 period of time.

[fastboy21]

I support a real life intervention for whatever neckbeard that spends a real life week locking down any single camp 24/7.

It is in the long run best interest of the server that these people get help before they lose their jobs and ability to play due to eviction, bill problems, divorce, etc. These accounts, therefore, should be suspended until verification that real life treatment has commenced.

Let's work together to have fun, not ruin our lives due to video game addiction. Also, hugs not drugs. The Chinese government has been successfully helping its people with very similar policies to what I am advocating for here. China is life.

[maskedmelon]

solution is to not enforce camps. then anybody can get a chance at it anytime and zero support needed ^^

[trite]

Isn't this non-instanced content that requires perseverance and social engineering to acquire what makes this game great. Otherwise pixels aren't fun at all. I'm surprised to see so many posters with thousands of posts to their names having anti-neckbeard opinions...

[Legidias]

How much chaos do you expect 8 extra people will bring on blue exactly?

[Ikon]

I finally get to write it first!!!! Sorry Loramin...

THATS NOTCLASSIC!

Honestly though, I see no way they could enforce such a rule. They already have guide time monopolized by trying to monitor raids, how could they even begin to start trying to watch specific camps in the game?

All this would do is create constant petitions for every camp on the server. They would have petitions sent in complaining about that loser lvl 50 necro that farms orc1 and orc2 daily every morning for 4 hours, etc.

The petitions would never end.
Its absolutely CLASSIC!

The rules on this server are NOT CLASSIC!

I have posted multiple times including one response to Sirken who asked for evidence, and then ignored the 10 or so links I posted from GM's, EQ's Producer Gordon Wrinn, EQ Guides and players in era, which clearly showed there was a no lockdown rule that was enforced regularly - it was called the PnP.

Some people try to claim that it would never work because "lack of staff" however Gordon expressively stated that it did not create any more workload on the staff after the change.

Some people ranted and raved saying it was never enforced but refused to show any actual evidence of that as opposed all the evidence I posted that showed it WAS ENFORCED.

My guess it was the same people that ranted and raved about there never having been a leash in Kunark or later when I first showed with lots of evidence that there had been.

Do a search you can find my post and the evidence - In Regards to Monopolizing a Spawn.

Date : 10/03/2000

Topic : Play Nice, Or...

This came of the official EverQuest message boards.
Kill Stealing Policy :

Kill Stealing is now officially defined as Killing an NPC or Mob for any reason, that is already attacking another player. Any player that is caught intentionally kill stealing by a guide or GM may now be warned. These warnings when accumulated, can lead to the player being suspended or banned from EverQuest by a GM.

Play Nice Policy :

Spawns in the game can no longer be claimed or controlled by a single player or group. Whether it is a single or multiple spawn, for an item or for XP, low or high level, all groups wishing to camp a spawn must work out some type of rotation or means to share the spawn.

This information somehow got leaked before we were ready to comment on it, hence it showing up on the boards before we had a chance to talk to you about it.
I'll have a new Producer's Letter up early next week to address the new rules, how they are going to be enforced, and the spirit behind the letter.

- Gordon

Heres the link to my thread, I posted in era evidence throughout the entire thread - https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260672&highlight=monopolizing+spawn

[lctucker2999]

I've only been on this server a few months but I've wondered why there isn't a rotation for key targets like NToV, Dain, AoW, KT, planes, etc. I guess it all comes down to pixel lust? The highest tier players on the server are finally "at the top" of some aspect of their lives? I mean there is a finite amount of content on P99 unlike on live where the top guilds were working on the current expansion while the smaller guilds could work their way through the previous xpac or 2 and I suppose that has a lot to do with it too.

It just seems like it would be healthier for the server and players to rotate targets. And I literally mean healthier as in you can go outside and breathe fresh air and not have to stare at the screen, because you know when your turn on NToV is going to be.

[Erati]

I've only been on this server a few months but I've wondered why there isn't a rotation for key targets like NToV, Dain, AoW, KT, planes, etc. I guess it all comes down to pixel lust? The highest tier players on the server are finally "at the top" of some aspect of their lives? I mean there is a finite amount of content on P99 unlike on live where the top guilds were working on the current expansion while the smaller guilds could work their way through the previous xpac or 2 and I suppose that has a lot to do with it too.

It just seems like it would be healthier for the server and players to rotate targets. And I literally mean healthier as in you can go outside and breathe fresh air and not have to stare at the screen, because you know when your turn on NToV is going to be.

Try TAKP - they have all raid targets rotated between 4-5 guilds or Agnarr where Temple of Veeshan is instanced and raided weekly by 10+ guilds.

[Nexii]

It's only an issue with a few drops (Manastone, Guise, Beads really).

The thing is these items were never as contested on live because players didn't know that the devs were later going to remove them from the game. Here, we have that advance knowledge and so player behavior on green would be much different than live.

It might not be popular POV but I would say these items shouldn't exist on green. On live they weren't retroactively removed because it would have been unfair to those that had earned them.

[loramin]

Spawns in the game can no longer be claimed or controlled by a single player or group. Whether it is a single or multiple spawn, for an item or for XP, low or high level, all groups wishing to camp a spawn must work out some type of rotation or means to share the spawn.

This (100% classic) rule alone would solve everything. Oh you want some Holgresh Elder Beads?

Old way: If you're the first person there you hold camp as long as you can while getting as many beads as possible, then give the camp to a friend to get as many beads as they can. If you're not first you have to show up, outlast whoever got their first AND any friends they may invite to takeover the camp, and then if you somehow manage that now you get to monopolize the camp for as long as possible.

New way: Just like OOT AC: after you kill a Holgresh Elder (or maybe after you loot a beads, but that'd be hard to prove since no one can see whether you looted them or not) you have to give the camp to the next person in line. If you want to keep going you have to go to the back of the line, and if you don't a GM will happily give you a suspension for ignoring the server rules.

[Ikon]

This (100% classic) rule alone would solve everything. Oh you want some Holgresh Elder Beads?

Old way: If you're the first person there you hold camp as long as you can while getting as many beads as possible, then give the camp to a friend to get as many beads as they can. If you're not first you have to show up, outlast whoever got their first AND any friends they may invite to takeover the camp, and then if you somehow manage that now you get to monopolize the camp for as long as possible.

New way: Just like OOT AC: after you kill a Holgresh Elder (or maybe after you loot a beads, but that'd be hard to prove since no one can see whether you looted them or not) you have to give the camp to the next person in line. If you want to keep going you have to go to the back of the line, and if you don't a GM will happily give you a suspension for ignoring the server rules.
Yeah this exactly.

Some of the peepz that will soon turn up will likely say "lolz, who wants to take turns at X mob" but the reality is nobody usually does and taking turns was generally a punishment by guides / GM's for those that petitioned rather than sorting out the issue themselves (like getting their item and leaving rather than giving to friend (cough alt cough) or corpsing.

An additional benefit is you'd find, like you did on live, that disputes went down because there was a rule that everyone was aware of that didn't involved foot racing, FTE and other nonsense that was not classic. Its a simple rule and its difficult to break and non-rule lawyerable.

[Crashking]

Here's a solution for green -- take the nerfed items and just never put them in no camping required then. They then can be GM event rewards? Yep not classic, but then how one defines classic can differ.

A slightly different method to avoid the major poop socking would be public waitlist you get added to list and it just goes in order by your ability to show. Once you have had camp you are removed from the list.. ie just a giant queue but not needing to poop sock in zone, but this would rely on player honesty. Only issue here is what other rules would be dropped in place -- level limit or what not. I mean why can't I loot something to a level 1 if I manage to get it killed and can get toon there?

[Jimjam]

It's only an issue with a few drops (Manastone, Guise, Beads really).

The thing is these items were never as contested on live because players didn't know that the devs were later going to remove them from the game. Here, we have that advance knowledge and so player behavior on green would be much different than live.

It might not be popular POV but I would say these items shouldn't exist on green. On live they weren't retroactively removed because it would have been unfair to those that had earned them.

Post legacy and pre-planar/pre-sol ro temple would be a great start point to a new server imho.

What does stuff like manastone really add, beyond nerd bickers?

[MasterCS]

A little late to the party and only read the first couple of pages, so I apologize if this has already been said. One solution to this problem could be coded into the game. You can set boundaries within the zone around said camp/mob spawn by location. Have that boundary be relative to the max distance (plus some fluff) someone could aggro the mob with either a range item, spell or pet. Once the item is registered to the persons account, a timer starts for the area the item just dropped from. If the person (associated by IP) were to step into this area within the given time frame, it ports you back to the entrance of the zone. Once you’re outside of the timer window, you can go back to the area until you get another drop. Obviously this isn’t classic, but it could be done with some work. Just proposing a solution.

[aMindAmok]

It's not classic but there is a simple fix. All items (regardless of value) that stop dropping could be tagged as lore for the account. No more accounts with the same no longer drops items on every character. Of course, people have multiple accounts and would still get away with it. But, it would lessen the extent to which these items are hoarded. If those items are tagged that way from day one of a new server it would preemptively fix the issue all together.

[branamil]

It's a volunteer staff working on their hobby. It's an an old game originally created with spaghetti code. Don't hold your breath for technical resolutions to in game problems!

[fastboy21]

It's a volunteer staff working on their hobby. It's an an old game originally created with spaghetti code. Don't hold your breath for technical resolutions to in game problems!

I'm not so sure about this. Nilbog and the devs have been able to implement plenty of pretty complicated fixes/changes. The only two barriers have been does the client make the change possible, and is the change "classic".

The rules for "camping" on p99 have nothing to do with coding, they are just rules posted by the GMs and enforced in game via petitions. Those rules could be whatever they feel like enforcing.

I'm not sure any changes are needed. I don't feel like there has to be a solution that creates an outcome where everyone can get a manastone or a guise. I'd like to see a solution that somehow enrages and punishes whatever neckbeard tries to collect all the manastones like they are M&Ms, but that's only because I'd find it really entertaining to watch on the rants and flames board.

[loramin]

It's a volunteer staff working on their hobby. It's an an old game originally created with spaghetti code. Don't hold your breath for technical resolutions to in game problems!

This, plus THE ENTIRE POINT of Project 1999 is to re-create classic EverQuest. Historically the extent of the staff's willingness to add non-classic rules has been things like FTE messages (which literally do nothing other than announce who hit the mob first) and the 25 mob AoE limit (which was more or less a technical limitation for the majority of EQ players in 1999 anyway).

My point being, entirely new changes to the game (like account-lore items) are an anathema to the entire project because by definition they're not classic. The only thing I could see (and one staff member mentioned this, but I think they may have been joking) is eliminating items like mana stones from the beginning. One could justify that as "classic" because even the classic developers took them out, and presumably would have done so at launch had they known what problems those items would cause.


I'm not sure any changes are needed. I don't feel like there has to be a solution that creates an outcome where everyone can get a manastone or a guise. I'd like to see a solution that somehow enrages and punishes whatever neckbeard tries to collect all the manastones like they are M&Ms, but that's only because I'd find it really entertaining to watch on the rants and flames board.

I don't see it as a binary issue, ie. it's not like the only two options are "allow losers to hold a camp for months at a time" or the Oprah option ("you get a manastone, and you get a manastone, and you ...."). As has already been mentioned, simply enforcing the classic/live Play Nice Policy would prevent both those outcomes, and instead force people to "wait in line" for manastones the same way they wait in line for the OOT Ancient Cyclops now.

Now could a neckbeard with no job or life wait in line longer, and thus have a much better chance of getting a manastone? Absolutely. Classic EQ will always reward people who are willing to invest more of their time. But giving the person who spends more time a proportionally higher chance of getting an item is completely different from letting the person with the absolute most time monopolize the item and prevent anyone else from getting it.

[Pokesan]

It's only an issue with a few drops (Manastone, Guise, Beads really).

The thing is these items were never as contested on live because players didn't know that the devs were later going to remove them from the game. Here, we have that advance knowledge and so player behavior on green would be much different than live.

It might not be popular POV but I would say these items shouldn't exist on green. On live they weren't retroactively removed because it would have been unfair to those that had earned them.

i'd say let them drop because classic but only allow no-drops to be moved at the end of the timeline

so you end up with a fun server and a pixel empire server. win-win

[SamwiseRed]

no lock down rule only leads to instancing.

[Maner]

This (100% classic) rule alone would solve everything. Oh you want some Holgresh Elder Beads?

Old way: If you're the first person there you hold camp as long as you can while getting as many beads as possible, then give the camp to a friend to get as many beads as they can. If you're not first you have to show up, outlast whoever got their first AND any friends they may invite to takeover the camp, and then if you somehow manage that now you get to monopolize the camp for as long as possible.

New way: Just like OOT AC: after you kill a Holgresh Elder (or maybe after you loot a beads, but that'd be hard to prove since no one can see whether you looted them or not) you have to give the camp to the next person in line. If you want to keep going you have to go to the back of the line, and if you don't a GM will happily give you a suspension for ignoring the server rules.

The other part you didnt quote was the guides saying whoever gets the mob first gets it which is FTE... Later you go on to claim FTE wasnt classic. I played throughout classic on live and never once remember a rotation on a 1 group camp enforced. The closest i remember was a gm coming in and kicking some people out of sky who were camped on the last island after the guild i was in cleared all the way up. But that is in no way the same.... You are using a conversation without any proof of implementation as evidence.

[loramin]

The other part you didnt quote was the guides saying whoever gets the mob first gets it which is FTE... Later you go on to claim FTE wasnt classic. I played throughout classic on live and never once remember a rotation on a 1 group camp enforced. The closest i remember was a gm coming in and kicking some people out of sky who were camped on the last island after the guild i was in cleared all the way up. But that is in no way the same.... You are using a conversation without any proof of implementation as evidence.

I think you might be mistaken: show me where I claimed that FTE wasn't classic. Also, if the instruction manual for staff during the Kunark era doesn't convince you that something was classic, I'm not sure what could convince you, especially since (as I already noted earlier) different GMs did different things on different servers.

But since you have such passion against people sharing in EQ, what would you propose as a better system?

[Maner]

I think you might be mistaken: show me where I claimed that FTE wasn't classic. Also, if the instruction manual for staff during the Kunark era doesn't convince you that something was classic, I'm not sure what could convince you, especially since (as I already noted earlier) different GMs did different things on different servers.

But since you have such passion against people sharing in EQ, what would you propose as a better system?

If you want a "better system" then play on a different server. The GMs rules obviously weren't enforced universally and using a handful of examples from personal experience is not proof of anything and is anecdotal at best. This server handles camps the same exact way xev did during live. If different GMs responding differently is classic then why are you even bitching for a universal rule?

Just because you don't have enough friends to lock down king doesn't mean someone else should be forced to share with you. I mean fuck, they don't even force kids to share in elementary schools anymore, if they ever did. You sure do like to assume that every idea you come up with is somehow a beniifit to the server...

[aubie]

IP Lore Item (same as two people can't share an IP). Simple solution, one item per ISP. No idea if that is feasible or not though.

[Pokesan]

maner "if you want things to be better, play a different server"

listen to this wise man and catch me on takp. pm if you want help starting

[Maner]

IP Lore Item (same as two people can't share an IP). Simple solution, one item per ISP. No idea if that is feasible or not though.

So don't roll alts. You get one character who can get all the loot on p99 after that you're done. Great idea with a super outlook towards the longevity of the server.

maner "if you want things to be better, play a different server"

listen to this wise man and catch me on takp. pm if you want help starting

The least you could do is copy my actual comment poke. It ruins your narrative but at least it's honest. Personally I think this server is the best out of the options in EMU. If you and Lora disagree no one is stopping you from using the door. In fact I doubt anyone would even notice if both of you just disappeared.

[Pokesan]

If you want a "better system" then play on a different server.


hit me up yowl happy to save some souls

[aubie]

So don't roll alts. You get one character who can get all the loot on p99 after that you're done. Great idea with a super outlook towards the longevity of the server.


Not every item. I thought we were talking about super rare poopsocking items; not just good items. But way to go to the extreme.:)

[Maner]

Not every item. I thought we were talking about super rare poopsocking items; not just good items. But way to go to the extreme.:)

Who gets to decide what is a "super rare poopsocking item"? The example given was king, how many fungi tunics are on the server right now? that obviously isn't a super rare anything. Do you mean something like elder beads? there was an actual GM enforced rotation on that due to a player made agreement and a list that was 5-8 days long...

Right now people like Lora are complaining due to a feeling of self entitlement where they want rules made to cater to their specific play style. The only person whose play style this server would cater to would be Rogean's. Just because you didn't get a chance to camp the king in seb last week doesn't mean anything needs to be fixed.

[loramin]

Right now people like Lora are complaining due to a feeling of self entitlement where they want rules made to cater to their specific play style. The only person whose play style this server would cater to would be Rogean's. Just because you didn't get a chance to camp the king in seb last week doesn't mean anything needs to be fixed.

Everyone's entitled. I feel like all players who are willing to spend enough time are entitled to a chance at "so powerful they were removed from the game" items, just like they are for any other item (and just like the Kunark GM manual specified). No one guarantees you a fungi, but if you spend enough time trying to get king groups in Seb you'll get one eventually.

You feel like a one or a handful of the most dedicated people should have the server rules written in a way that entitle them and their friends to a monopoly over those items.

[Maner]

Everyone's entitled. I feel like all players who are willing to spend enough time are entitled to a chance at "so powerful they were removed from the game" items, just like they are for any other item (and just like the Kunark GM manual specified). No one guarantees you a fungi, but if you spend enough time trying to get king groups in Seb you'll get one eventually.

You feel like a one or a handful of the most dedicated people should have the server rules written in a way that entitle them and their friends to a monopoly over those items.

No, i feel that those willing to put in the time and effort deserve to benefit from it. Not be forced to share cause some spoiled self entitled brat complains about monopolization. I personally haven't camped the king is probably over a year if not two years. I could care less who monopolizes it as it is there right to do so. Please show me where this server is or has ever been advertised as a way for everyone to go back and experience everything. Show me where you are guaranteed your "turn" at any camp. Clearly the real problem is your assumptions coming in were based purely on your misconception about the server. You can experience everything, but you have to be willing to commit the time in order to do so. That is classic everquest.

You could of had your chance at those items before they were removed. I personally remember waiting over a week for my name to come up in the elder beads cave. I am sorry that you feel you should have been able to walk right in and make demands of people waiting days for their turn. That just screams entitlement though

You keep quoting this "kunark GM manual" and yet if it was an actual rule book for GMs then it would have been enforced unilaterally which you even admit it wasn't. Therefore it is proof of nothing, good intentions don't equate to specified rules.

[Ikon]

If you want a "better system" then play on a different server. The GMs rules obviously weren't enforced universally and using a handful of examples from personal experience is not proof of anything and is anecdotal at best. This server handles camps the same exact way xev did during live. If different GMs responding differently is classic then why are you even bitching for a universal rule?

Just because you don't have enough friends to lock down king doesn't mean someone else should be forced to share with you. I mean fuck, they don't even force kids to share in elementary schools anymore, if they ever did. You sure do like to assume that every idea you come up with is somehow a beniifit to the server...

Your opinion doesn't matter. Your experience on your server doesn't matter. Unless you were an employee, guide or GM in classic everquest then all you were was a single player out of a a million or so who had no idea how the internal petition process operated.

What I linked was classic posts and threads from the community service manager, guides, GMs and in classic time period players stating that rotations were classic official rules, were enforced, describing them being enforced on multiple servers over extended periods.

That's what matters.

Edit: Also play on TAKP as well as P1999, main reason I made the move - the P1999 PnP makes it just another emulated server, there is no real feeling of original EQ left in it. It has the mechanics of EQ classic, the player base of EvE Online and the rules of Sirken.

[Maner]

Your opinion doesn't matter. Your experience on your server doesn't matter. Unless you were an employee, guide or GM in classic everquest then all you were was a single player out of a a million or so who had no idea how the internal petition process operated.

What I linked was classic posts and threads from the community service manager, guides, GMs and in classic time period players stating that rotations were classic official rules, were enforced, describing them being enforced on multiple servers over extended periods.

That's what matters.

No, you linked forum posts with literally no proof except anecdotal evidence that they were enforced sporadically and not uniformly which is what it would require for there to be any change here. Were you an employee guide or GM? do you have a copy of this kunark GM manual you claim has all these rules in it or just excerpts from random forums? If as you claim i have no place to talk, then why the fuck are you opening your mouth?

There were no officials enforcing rotations on the server i played on. I did not use that as evidence to say that there were no enforced rotations on other servers, stop assuming. I used it as evidence that your so called GM manual wasn't enforced on every server and you haven't even established that it was even given to all guides and GMs. I never stated my opinion. i stated how this server has been run, and will most likely continue to run. They aren't here to cater to you and those who feel like they should be given everything without having to invest the amount others already invest. That was my opinion, however it is supported by sirken who told those like you where the door was.

You clearly believe however that your opinion somehow carries more weight... I guess its because you are now invested in your so called "proof" and cant handle being incorrect. All that matters is the experiences people had on their servers, since they seem to differ with your so called rule book, it obviously wasn't an actual rule book...

If you want to experience everything then go get a job and play on agnarr where your schedule can be catered to by all kinds of guilds.

[Pokesan]

love it or leave it is dumb garbage from the bush administration and i invite you to get a clue and join us in 2017

[Ikon]

No, you linked forum posts with literally no proof except anecdotal evidence that they were enforced sporadically and not uniformly which is what it would require for there to be any change here. Were you an employee guide or GM? do you have a copy of this kunark GM manual you claim has all these rules in it or just excerpts from random forums? If as you claim i have no place to talk, then why the fuck are you opening your mouth?

There were no officials enforcing rotations on the server i played on. I did not use that as evidence to say that there were no enforced rotations on other servers, stop assuming. I used it as evidence that your so called GM manual wasn't enforced on every server and you haven't even established that it was even given to all guides and GMs. I never stated my opinion. i stated how this server has been run, and will most likely continue to run. They aren't here to cater to you and those who feel like they should be given everything without having to invest the amount others already invest. That was my opinion, however it is supported by sirken who told those like you where the door was.

You clearly believe however that your opinion somehow carries more weight... I guess its because you are now invested in your so called "proof" and cant handle being incorrect. All that matters is the experiences people had on their servers, since they seem to differ with your so called rule book, it obviously wasn't an actual rule book...

If you want to experience everything then go get a job and play on agnarr where your schedule can be catered to by all kinds of guilds.

Lets take an analytical approach to this:

Gordon Wrinn:

Gordon Wrinn entered the gaming profession in December of 1999 as the Internet Relations Manager for EverQuest. After 9 months in that position, he was promoted to the role of Associate Producer on EverQuest expansions. Following several expansions, and fame in many online, print, TV, and movie media forums, he moved to be a programmer on EverQuest 2. He and two other programmers were responsible for roughly 90% of the gameplay code at the launch of EverQuest 2.

Date : 10/03/2000

Topic : Play Nice, Or...

This came of the official EverQuest message boards.
Kill Stealing Policy :

Kill Stealing is now officially defined as Killing an NPC or Mob for any reason, that is already attacking another player. Any player that is caught intentionally kill stealing by a guide or GM may now be warned. These warnings when accumulated, can lead to the player being suspended or banned from EverQuest by a GM.

Play Nice Policy :

Spawns in the game can no longer be claimed or controlled by a single player or group. Whether it is a single or multiple spawn, for an item or for XP, low or high level, all groups wishing to camp a spawn must work out some type of rotation or means to share the spawn.

This information somehow got leaked before we were ready to comment on it, hence it showing up on the boards before we had a chance to talk to you about it.
I'll have a new Producer's Letter up early next week to address the new rules, how they are going to be enforced, and the spirit behind the letter.

- Gordon

We have here the most important and relevant type of information, that of an original developer, an official post, describing the official rules of EQ at the time, in the era that P1999 is in.

Now show us your links and information that discredit this? No? Can't? Yeah...

Here's another from Gordon - Does what he describes sound like what's been happening on P1999 for years? Yes, It, Does:

The Play Nice Policies were created because a growing number of customers were being subordinated by other, more powerful, groups of players. These other groups would claim "ownership" of spawns, loot drops, and even entire zones, refusing to allow other people a chance to experience them. On some servers, guilds had certain areas camped 24x7.

The play nice policies, in regards to spawns and camping, are designed to promote equal access to the areas. If a group can get into a room, they have as much right to be there as anyone else. Are the policies perfect? No, of course what is? No matter what policy we adopt, there will be people who are helped by the policy, and others that are hurt. Sometimes the policy may help them in one instance and hurt in another.

As I've mentioned in the past, if anyone has any ideas for policies that are easy to understand, are enforcable, do not require a larger CS team than before or after the Play nice policies, and will please everyone, I'd be happy to discuss them. - Gordon

One can also reasonably infer given the highlighted texts, that the new PnP did not involve considerable new resources over the old petition system.

[Maner]

So your own "evidence" confirms that nothing was actually put into place and he was in fact looking into a PnP and was asking others for feedback... Those quotes in no way prove that there was an all encompassing Play nice policy that was ever put into place.

[aMindAmok]

There is so much selective dumb in this thread.

Fact. P99 is not classic and never will be. But, it provides the best and closest experience that exists. Kudos to the developers for that.

This thread is proof that any imaginary future server should never exist.

[Ikon]

So your own "evidence" confirms that nothing was actually put into place and he was in fact looking into a PnP and was asking others for feedback... Those quotes in no way prove that there was an all encompassing Play nice policy that was ever put into place.
You must be smoking some pretty good stuff :)

[Lhancelot]

So your own "evidence" confirms that nothing was actually put into place and he was in fact looking into a PnP and was asking others for feedback... Those quotes in no way prove that there was an all encompassing Play nice policy that was ever put into place.

What?

Maner do you not comprehend English, or do you not read what others post and just comment to yourself what you want to think others wrote?

Clearly Ikon posted a direct quote from Gordon, and it says...


Quote:

"The Play Nice Policies were created because a growing number of customers were being subordinated by other, more powerful, groups of players. These other groups would claim "ownership" of spawns, loot drops, and even entire zones, refusing to allow other people a chance to experience them. On some servers, guilds had certain areas camped 24x7. "


Gordon wrote that the PnP WAS CREATED ffs dude. Just stop this you sound dumb and I know you are not dumb. Just stop. Please.

Ironically, what "Gordon" wrote nearly 18 years ago describes the climate of the raid scene and big money camps to a "T" on P99.

There is a reason many "casuals" like myself and hundreds others have found other ways to enjoy P99 without touching the raid scene and it has nothing to do with the actual content of P99 and the game itself. It has everything to do with the awful attitude and BS you have to put up with from other players if you decide to raid.

That's right, the players on P99 have ruined the raid scene of an 18 year old game on a emu server because they cannot control their greed for pixels. Let that sink in. It has nothing to do with putting in the "work" for said pixels as you say to justify this mental illness some players possess.

[aaezil]

the sad part is sirken/staff here has been siding with the likes of deranged maner//detoxx types for too many years. Dont see that changing any time soon sadly

[fastboy21]

Your opinion doesn't matter.

That's what matters.

Edit: Also play on TAKP as well as P1999, main reason I made the move - the P1999 PnP makes it just another emulated server, there is no real feeling of original EQ left in it. It has the mechanics of EQ classic, the player base of EvE Online and the rules of Sirken.

Just ignore Ikon. He returns to the forums every so often to spout his nonsense. It borders on being troll-like, but in reality I'm pretty sure he is just dense. His comments are rude, unfounded and insulting to other players and the server staff.

By his own commentary he has moved on to the "real" classic experience over at TAKP. That pretty much sums up his entire opinion in a nutshell.

[Ikon]

Just ignore Ikon. He returns to the forums every so often to spout his nonsense. It borders on being troll-like, but in reality I'm pretty sure he is just dense. His comments are rude, unfounded and insulting to other players and the server staff.

By his own commentary he has moved on to the "real" classic experience over at TAKP. That pretty much sums up his entire opinion in a nutshell.
If trolling = stating a position, posting evidence based on time relevant developer posts as well as posts by GM, guides and over 70 in era player posts all agreeing that there was a broad based enforced rotation policy then guilty as charged.

Even if that doesn't make me a troll I must be one because I don't exclusively play on P1999 ;)

[Mblake1981]

I don't feel like there has to be a solution that creates an outcome where everyone can get a manastone or a guise.

https://i.imgur.com/OIZAqsJ.png

I'd like to see a solution that somehow enrages and punishes whatever neckbeard tries to collect all the manastones like they are M&Ms, but that's only because I'd find it really entertaining to watch on the rants and flames board.

There is always single player Skyrim or a co-op game. why not try taking to the people that have a camp on lockdown and make new friends on an MMO...so you can get that sweet item that is the prize. Make fwends with neckbeard, make neckbeard laugh.. get your manastone or whatevs. No harm in being a good dude or gal that is liked and thus helped out.

I have got the AC camp twice for my toons that needed the item just by sticking around and being social. People that were on the list are in some other zone not talking to the people that are actively camping it.

Making MMOs ever more anti-social is counter intuitive to me.

[fastboy21]

https://i.imgur.com/OIZAqsJ.png



There is always single player Skyrim or a co-op game. why not try taking to the people that have a camp on lockdown and make new friends on an MMO...so you can get that sweet item that is the prize. Make fwends with neckbeard, make neckbeard laugh.. get your manastone or whatevs. No harm in being a good dude or gal that is liked and thus helped out.

I have got the AC camp twice for my toons that needed the item just by sticking around and being social. People that were on the list are in some other zone not talking to the people that are actively camping it.

Making MMOs ever more anti-social is counter intuitive to me.

english. gud.

[fastboy21]

If trolling = stating a position, posting evidence based on time relevant developer posts as well as posts by GM, guides and over 70 in era player posts all agreeing that there was a broad based enforced rotation policy then guilty as charged.

Even if that doesn't make me a troll I must be one because I don't exclusively play on P1999 ;)

Right. But, your evidence is faulty and your analysis of it is wrong. I don't doubt that in your own head you believe you are being logical. Like I said, I don't think you are actually a troll: you're just not bright.

Whoops...I broke my own rule. Ignore back on.

[Ikon]

Right. But, your evidence is faulty and your analysis of it is wrong. I don't doubt that in your own head you believe you are being logical. Like I said, I don't think you are actually a troll: you're just not bright.

Whoops...I broke my own rule. Ignore back on.
Well I guess that's it then, HE hath Spoken, nothing more to discuss :)

[Pokesan]

being put on ignore is a sign you've beaten someone completely

[Mblake1981]

english. gud.

Thanks fwend, you the bestest neckbeard ever despite what Ikon says.

[Maner]

What?

Maner do you not comprehend English, or do you not read what others post and just comment to yourself what you want to think others wrote?

Clearly Ikon posted a direct quote from Gordon, and it says...





Gordon wrote that the PnP WAS CREATED ffs dude. Just stop this you sound dumb and I know you are not dumb. Just stop. Please.

Ironically, what "Gordon" wrote nearly 18 years ago describes the climate of the raid scene and big money camps to a "T" on P99.

There is a reason many "casuals" like myself and hundreds others have found other ways to enjoy P99 without touching the raid scene and it has nothing to do with the actual content of P99 and the game itself. It has everything to do with the awful attitude and BS you have to put up with from other players if you decide to raid.

That's right, the players on P99 have ruined the raid scene of an 18 year old game on a emu server because they cannot control their greed for pixels. Let that sink in. It has nothing to do with putting in the "work" for said pixels as you say to justify this mental illness some players possess.

Created does not equate to implemented universally. Thanks for trying

[Pokesan]

Created does not equate to implemented universally. Thanks for trying

*moves goalposts to Mars*

[Maner]

*moves goalposts to Mars*

Except this is the same stance I have had since my first post in this thread... every single example of a server that didn't have a PnP is evidence that the policy was never implemented. If you're going to accuse me of some type of deflection poke, the least you could do is comprehend what you're accusing me of...

Come back when you have the actual GM manual that people claim existed. Or when you have the memo stating when the PnP policy was going to take affect. Right now all you have is anecdotal evidence that shows a policy was being discussed nothing that proves it ever went past that.

[Pokesan]

eh you asked for pnp and he showed you pnp. not much else to say dude.

[Ikon]

Except this is the same stance I have had since my first post in this thread... every single example of a server that didn't have a PnP is evidence that the policy was never implemented. If you're going to accuse me of some type of deflection poke, the least you could do is comprehend what you're accusing me of...

Come back when you have the actual GM manual that people claim existed. Or when you have the memo stating when the PnP policy was going to take affect. Right now all you have is anecdotal evidence that shows a policy was being discussed nothing that proves it ever went past that.
Rather famous post from Guide Tweety, who was let go by Sony for the post:
http://www.erollisimarr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4061

Play nice policies. My personal feelings aside (lay off the wacky weed, Verant), I get to enforce it. Do you know how much I hate you at the end of a long shift? What kind of asshole thinks the king room in Lower Guk can be shared by TWO GROUPS OF 12? Conversely, what kind of screaming cocksucker thinks it's okay to camp the king room for 36 hours? I think you both suck. The only people lamer than you are the ones that PNP over derv camps in North Ro and then act surprised when I send one group to the DESERTED derv camp a 30 second walk away.

[Maner]

Rather famous post from Guide Tweety, who was let go by Sony for the post:
http://www.erollisimarr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4061

Again, using one persons anecdotal experience as wide spread proof is a logical fallacy. You aren't proving what you think you are proving troll. You have no actual statement from anyone in charge saying that this PnP ever made it to implementation. I mean shit, that last quote literally proves nothing in regards to dozens of servers and millions of players... I can find twice as many posts saying that guides and GMs never followed the same playbook and their rulings were usually inconsistent. If there was a universal PnP that wouldn't be the case...

eh you asked for pnp and he showed you pnp. not much else to say dude.

No, I asked for proof that is a universal policy. You are just doing a terrible job at trolling.

[Pokesan]

you see, the exact words of an official SOE guide are anecdotal at best and furthermore,

[Maner]

you see, the exact words of an official SOE guide are anecdotal at best and furthermore,

You realize guides weren't even paid employees for the most part right? They were volunteers. How many guides were there again? Do you even know? What makes someone an official guide? Where was this posted from, was it from a guide message board? You actually think that one quote proves anything?

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that there is literally no evidence here that supports a universal play nice policy?

Is the quote in question the account of one guide and not that of the entire guide program? Yes it was therefore it by definition anecdotal....

That quote doesn't prove anything other than guides solved disputes however they felt like it at the time lol. Not that there was an actual guideline or rulebokk like people have been claiming.

Notice how you deflected this time though..

[Pokesan]

no need to get triggered, snowflake. Ikon dunking on you twice with classic staff quotes isn't the end of the world

[Ikon]

you see, the exact words of an official SOE guide are anecdotal at best and furthermore,
Hehehe.

Yeah, here's some more anecdotal evidence that much less reliable than the The FaX that He Gnoes..

Player: egodonor
Server: Bertoxx
Next day one of my fellows sends me a tell. Seems the othe guy not only got one of his guildmates involved (this is a totally diferent topic, and btw, who cares about higher levs KSing for thier guildies? but got 2 GM's involved. Thats right, a full blown conflagaration over 2 freaking aviaks.

Long story short: my fellows were told to share the spawn, that camping the two birds was not abiding by the play nice policies.

LOLOL....play nice? Communism isnt my idea of play nice. I cant wait for a large guild to camp some high level area only to be forced into playing nice and letting an even larger or more powerful guild "share the spawn"....

Player: Code Slave
Server: Prexus / Vallon
PnP works for me. Sorry your guildmates had to put up with a jerk, but they don't OWN the aviaks. People want to believe that EQ is first come first serve, but it isn't.

Player: Shiara_Shadowblood
Server: Unknown
I prefer to call it "fair" instead of communistic. The whole uberguild thing you mention isn't theoretical at all, it's the exact reason play nice was implemented. Players with your attitude would make sure a guildmate were at particular uber spawns 24/7 and farmed them permanently. It was this attitude that was destroying parts of the game and play nice has rectified it by forcing greedy powercampers to allow other players a shot.


Player: Anne99
Server: Nameless
Unfortunately the play nice "share" rules designed to fix rare spawn camps have become a means by which people drive others off from exp (non-uberloot) camps.

Link to 3 page thread with over 60 individual players from various different servers confirming PnP existed, was implemented, they used it, they had it used on them, they loved it, they hated it.... yadayadayada.
https://web.archive.org/web/20000815225307/http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum2/HTML/004652.html

[Ikon]

You realize guides weren't even paid employees for the most part right? They were volunteers. How many guides were there again? Do you even know? What makes someone an official guide? Where was this posted from, was it from a guide message board? You actually think that one quote proves anything?
Tweety made it into the 10th Anniversary EQ Book (http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/08/14/everquests-10th-anniversary-book/) even - Or when soon to be ex-Guide Tweety (and soon after to be DAoC community manager) posted her infamous “Nutless Assmuncher” post.

Can't really Argue with it :)

[Maner]

How many players were there at the time? How many servers? Do you have posts confirming the same policy was being enforced unilaterally across all of them? Because so far you haven't proven that. All you need is a post from the person in charge of the guide program stating when the PnP was going to go into affect. Go find that post and then come back, otherwise you are just using people's personal experience as evidence which is ANECODTAL.

Tweety made it into the 10th Anniversary EQ Book (http://westkarana.com/index.php/2008/08/14/everquests-10th-anniversary-book/) even -

Can't really Argue with it :)

And one example disproves me comment now? Nice job ignoring all the other questions though troll

You are not entitled to anything on this server. Either put in as much time as the other people or stop bitching when you don't have the same gear. That is classic

[Pokesan]

Ikon, you'll farm 3 jeldorins before convincing Maner of anything. he's not interested in facts.

[Ikon]

Ikon, you'll farm 3 jeldorins before convincing Maner of anything. he's not interested in facts.
I know but it is fun watching him squirm.

[Ikon]

Do you have posts confirming the same policy was being enforced unilaterally across all of them? Because so far you haven't proven that. All you need is a post from the person in charge of the guide program stating when the PnP was going to go into affect. Go find that post and then come back.
If I provide this will you concede? I doubt it.

[kaev]

It has the mechanics of EQ classic, the player base of EvE Online and the rules of Sirken.

Damn, best distillation of p99 I've ever read. It only covers about half the players of course, but since it's the shitty half who do most of the raiding and all of the forum posting it's pretty on target.

[Ikon]

As requested by the lovely Maner,

Producer Letter: Lets Play Nice (2000), G, Wrinn, Verant Interactive

Play Nice Policies: A revision to the GM/Guide FAQ and the Rules of Conduct.

Back in October, Jeff Butler, EverQuest’s Customer Service Manager, outlined some new Customer Service Guidelines in the Producers Letter. Shortly after these policies were publicized, we announced that their implementation would be postponed pending some revisions necessary to insure enforceability and consistency across the servers and different levels of our Customer Service organization. Last week, our policy team completed their public revision of those policies, and we are ready to implement them at this time. Before we get in to the wording of the "Play Nice Policies", I’d like to take a moment to discuss their spirit, and why we feel that they are necessary.

EverQuest continues to astound everyone involved with it almost daily. Nearly one year since we opened our doors, EverQuest boasts a community of current players numbering nearly 200,000, most of whom still play on a daily basis. In all actuality, EverQuest has gone beyond what could be described with a term such as "community". We are all, in fact, part of the EverQuest Society.

Like any society, each person has the ability to place his or her mark upon it. The vast majority of people in our society do their best to insure that their mark is positive, by abiding to the laws that we, much like the government, bring forward. Some of you choose to become pinnacles of honor, dignity, and respect in your individual communities by forming guilds, promoting honorable actions by your members, and by supporting EverQuest on your web-sites.

Also like any society, we have our underbelly, a relatively small number of people who live to prey upon the honorable. It is frequently the goal of these people to see to their desires, no matter the effect of their actions upon others around them. They are the ones who claim ownership of servers, zones, or spawns, and cause or threaten harm to anyone who does not share their disregard and contempt. They are the ones who live, not to enjoy the game with everyone else, but to enjoy at everyone else’s expense.

For the first few months after EverQuest’s release, we felt that a policy of non-interference in many of these matters was warranted. However, we continued to lose good players. This was not due to any deficiency or dissatisfaction in the game, but due to dissatisfaction with the treatment that they received from their fellow players, and the perceived inability of our Customer Service department to intervene. Late last year, we made a commitment to our players to begin playing an active role in many of these situations.

The intent of these policies is to provide the players with general guidelines for what is or is not acceptable behavior in EverQuest, and give them with the opportunity to work out differences prior to involving the EverQuest Customer Service Staff. Naturally, in a game as multifaceted as EverQuest, we are not able to cover every possible issue that could arise as part of these policies. In these cases, it is the spirit of a rule that will prevail over any discrepancies in the letter.

The policies below are now in effect and will be reflected in the GM - Guide/Conduct FAQ in the near future.

Kill Stealing
Kill Stealing will now be regarded as disruption and will result in disciplinary action when witnessed by any EverQuest Customer Service Representative (EQCSR). The EQCSR will review these situations on an individual basis and issue a decision which is considered binding upon all parties involved. Kill Stealing is defined as the killing of a mob for any reason that is already fighting or pursuing another player or group. The intent of this rule is discourage and make note of habitual Kill Stealers, not to punish those who honestly try to work together or those who make an honest mistake. Its enforcement by the EverQuest Customer Service Staff will reflect this philosophy.

Contested Spawns
There are cases where two or more groups wish to kill the same thing. In these cases, the groups are required to compromise. If an equitable compromise cannot be reached between the players prior to EverQuest Customer Service Staff involvement, the EQCSR will mandate a binding compromise. Refusing to abide by a compromise mandated by an EQCSR will be considered disruption. It is therefore strongly suggested that the groups make every attempt to reach a compromise that they can live with prior to involving an EQCSR, who may mandate a compromise that does not suit you to the extent that a player-devised compromise would.

Note: A "group" in this case is defined as a party of one or more characters that are united in a common belief or goal and are capable of completing that goal.

Foul Language
Excessive use of foul language in an inappropriate context, including swear words, real-world racial slurs, and other language that is not consistent with the fantasy environment and designed to hurt, will be considered a disruption. The existence of the filter (/filter) is not a license to be profane.

Harassment
Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. Harassment can take many forms, as it goes to the state-of-mind of the person or party on the receiving end of the action. However, in order to account for those who are excessively thin-skinned, the EQCSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not the average person would feel "harassed" and act accordingly.

Zone/Area Disruption
Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes things such as:


Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

Deliberately blocking a doorway or narrow area so other players cannot get past.

Refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by an EQCSR.

http://www.network54.com/Search/view/6204/953127207/EQ'ers+you+will+want+to+read+this+-+long?term=200T&page=51370

Made the part you requested really big with red writing and underlined and bolded it just in case. I could possibly get it converted into another language of your choice if English is troublesome. Tah.

[heartbrand]

What the fuck is a mana orb

[heartbrand]

Also PNP is very classic, I used it to grief groups in lower guk by forcing them to share frenzied with me.

[Ezrick]

For those of you who are newbs (which is most of you if you weren't around in Mar of 99) consider the EQ was launched without the concept of Lore items.

Lore was introduced just a few weeks after launch in an attempt to stop monopolization of, wait for it, the Polished Granite Tomahawk. It was actually the second attempt to do this, the first being increasing the weight to make it a severe stamina drain to dual wield.

You have to remember, there wasn't a single cleric capable or rezzing a player on any server so the concept of corpsing items didn't exist. Introducing the concept of Lore was intended to force players to get the item they were after and move on to something else.

So yes, at least the concept of trying to stop players or groups of players from monopolizing spawns was around right from the start.

[loramin]

As requested by the lovely Maner,


Producer Letter: Lets Play Nice (2000), G, Wrinn, Verant Interactive

Play Nice Policies: A revision to the GM/Guide FAQ and the Rules of Conduct.

https://i.imgur.com/1SAKQBD.gif

[Tuurin]

How many players were there at the time? How many servers? Do you have posts confirming the same policy was being enforced unilaterally across all of them? Because so far you haven't proven that. All you need is a post from the person in charge of the guide program stating when the PnP was going to go into affect. Go find that post and then come back, otherwise you are just using people's personal experience as evidence which is ANECODTAL.



And one example disproves me comment now? Nice job ignoring all the other questions though troll

You are not entitled to anything on this server. Either put in as much time as the other people or stop bitching when you don't have the same gear. That is classic

Way to tee yourself up there bud.

[Lhancelot]

eh you asked for pnp and he showed you pnp. not much else to say dude.

[supermonk]

if you're not in a raiding guild, you're going to hit a ceiling fairly quickly. if you still want to progress what other option do you have besides farming? you can't win on this box; you receive vitriol if you're in a raiding guild for not sharing mobs. the same concept applies if you're a farmer..but you only farm in order to buy items from raiding guilds.

I just wish people had the sense to talk it out with the opposing party instead of instantly petitioning for feeling slighted, not being slighted.

[Tuurin]

I've seen this sentiment expressed a few times here- do you really think you can just crack open a minotaur hero brew and shoot the shit with people and they're going to give up their precious monopoly on a camp? Have you ever had one of these types of interactions? It really doesn't work that way most of the time.

Most of the time you'll be either completely ignored (afk?) or ridiculed and called a newb for not knowing the rulebook. At best, you'll politely be told that they're planning on camping it for another 8 hours or so and there are 4 other people on the list after them so come back on Tuesday if you want a chance at the camp.

If something is technically allowed in the rules, people will do it and quote the rulebook to you despite any level of logical discourse you try to have. EQ is/was a pretty hardcore-type of game, and P1999 is the boiled-down neckbeardy version of EQ so of course it's going to have a disproportionate level of people who would gladly spend DAYS camping something to farm plats to pay for a MQ to get 20 more Hps out of their wrist slot.

[loramin]

At best, you'll politely be told that they're planning on camping it for another 8 hours or so and there are 4 other people on the list after them so come back on Tuesday if you want a chance at the camp.

I'm sure "8 hours or so and ... 4 other people on the list" was meant to be hyperbole, but I've played here for years and that really doesn't match what I've seen (except perhaps for the OOT AC at peak times). At all other competitive camps you have about a 35% chance to get the camp in less than an hour (either it will be free or the current camper will leave within an hour), and if you sit around waiting for them to leave on purpose (or die or zone,) your odds grow to like 80% in about two hours.

So if you want (say) an Earring of Essence from the Soothsayer in Droga just show up (at off-peak times if possible). If someone is there ask them how long they'll be, and then AFK and check back in every so often for a couple hours. You're likely to get the camp in that time, and if not you're very likely to get it by doing the same thing for another night or two. Or, don't wait around as long and log back in to check on the camp more frequently instead.

It still might take a lot of goblins to spawn a Soothsayer, and a lot of Soothsayers to get the earring, but hey that's EverQuest. The point is, it's not other players stopping you from getting the earring, it's your own willingness to be patient and play at off-peak hours, and the actual game itself.

[Tuurin]

I'm confused Loramin- didn't you start this thread? The thread is about locking down mobs/drops for extended amounts of time (days/weeks) to prevent others from accessing content and hoarding vast amounts of rare gear. Of course that's not the case at the Soothsayer camp in 2017.

If you want to see how this might play out in current meta, wait until Chardok 2.0 drops and Regal Band/Spirit Wracked Cords are on the table. You'll not be able to negotiate, play at off-peak, group up and cooperate, etc. for Drusella and/or angry goblin spawns. It'll be locked down 24/7 for a year+. And no level of patience or cooperation will allow you access either, because people will just hand off the camp to a friend, who will then hand it back to their alt, who then /gu when they're about to leave and have a guildy come and hold the camp while they sleep, etc.

And yes, it's exactly what happened in classic EQ, which prompted the PNP.

[loramin]

I'm confused Loramin- didn't you start this thread? The thread is about locking down mobs/drops for extended amounts of time (days/weeks) to prevent others from accessing content and hoarding vast amounts of rare gear. Of course that's not the case at the Soothsayer camp in 2017.

Yeah sorry I lost the context when I was reading your post and misread it as a general whine about camps on P99. Please ignore.

[Mblake1981]

I've seen this sentiment expressed a few times here- do you really think you can just crack open a minotaur hero brew and shoot the shit with people and they're going to give up their precious monopoly on a camp? Have you ever had one of these types of interactions? It really doesn't work that way most of the time.

But it does happen. I have had these interactions a good many times. No, they were not concerning rare spawns or dragon pixels. I have been on p99 now since 2012 and I haven't had much issue with getting camps eventually. I just don't get them all the time when I want them now.. you know like laying down with tears on my cheeks while pounding my fists and kicking my feet.

If its camped and I get no play, I move on my way to something else. Come back later.

Most of the time you'll be either completely ignored (afk?) or ridiculed and called a newb for not knowing the rulebook. At best, you'll politely be told that they're planning on camping it for another 8 hours or so and there are 4 other people on the list after them so come back on Tuesday if you want a chance at the camp.

Come back Tuesday, newb. /ingore .. j/k. But yeah check on it or come back on Tuesday.

If something is technically allowed in the rules, people will do it and quote the rulebook to you despite any level of logical discourse you try to have. EQ is/was a pretty hardcore-type of game, and P1999 is the boiled-down neckbeardy version of EQ so of course it's going to have a disproportionate level of people who would gladly spend DAYS camping something to farm plats to pay for a MQ to get 20 more Hps out of their wrist slot.

I have heard this complaint in various forms so many times in the past 17 years. Eventually when the player gets past their hump in life and reaches to point to seek BiS items some may chose to camp plat to achieve this and the circles comes around fully. Ask yourself if you are truly upset because a camp is taken or is it BiS or even upper end gear is just out of reach.

Honestly, what camp is that hard to get eventually?. King Camp for fungi, Jboots or high end Dragon pixels?

An instance MMO is far more up their ally, just like DVR tv they can watch it when they want how they want. No need to get heartbroken when they can have it now... NOW. Not later, NOW damnit. The game should cater to just the way they like their backs scratched. When and How.

*sigh*... achieve what you can achieve, everything good under the sun is not entitled and that includes the Norrath pixel sun as well.

[loramin]

*Reply that also misses the context*.

I feel better now that I'm not the only one ;)

[Mblake1981]

tense shoulders /shrug

Apologies if I misunderstood what was going on here. Have a good one.

[Zekayy]

None, that I'm aware of. The concern is more about when Green comes out someday, as it will have mana orbs and similar targets (along with, presumably, a significantly larger server population).

EDIT: Also +1 to Baler's idea, but since I thought most rotations were entered into voluntarily, I'm not clear on how they'd be staff enforced.

Lol Aftermath/forsaken locked down chardok during double exp bonus till the mob limit was changed we locked it down till the exp bounus was over

But of course you plebs know nothing about this sort of thing

[Lovebags]

I mean it's not so much the behavior I was saying is classic, but admin trying to thwart such ingame activities, such as people camping items for too long. This is not classic.

I think perhaps you suffer a little from Rosy-Tinted-Glasses Syndrome when you reflect on the past and Everquest as many of us do.

I am pretty sure even back then when Velious was fresh, there were nerds capable of camping items for extreme periods of time and passing camps only to their friends.

The only way you avoid this is... Instances. And, THAT'S NOT CLASSIC either.

Creating community rules governing camps and engagements is classic, end of story. Doesn't matter if the particular rule was classicly present because the issue it adresses may not have been classicly present. P99 faces many non classic community challenges, and the rate of occurence of those challenges is also non classic. The wiki is non classic, and is a source of many challenges that didn't exist in classic simply because information was harder to come by.

[Zekayy]

Creating community rules governing camps and engagements is classic, end of story. Doesn't matter if the particular rule was classicly present because the issue it adresses may not have been classicly present. P99 faces many non classic community challenges, and the rate of occurence of those challenges is also non classic. The wiki is non classic, and is a source of many challenges that didn't exist in classic simply because information was harder to come by.

Ummm They had a website called allakhazam's magical realm which is still around today I remember using that website back in the day

Allakhazam.com was started in 1999 by Jeffrey Moyer as a simple guide to the game EverQuest on a free web hosting service. It quickly became known by the EverQuest player base for its extensive quest descriptions. Mr. Moyer then teamed up with programmer Andy Sharp, acquired the url allakhazam.com, and the site was expanded into a database format covering quests, items, mobs and other aspects of the game. By the year 2000, Allakhazam was the most popular site on the internet covering Everquest and was getting over 10 million page views a month.

[Ikon]

Creating community rules governing camps and engagements is classic, end of story. Doesn't matter if the particular rule was classicly present because the issue it adresses may not have been classicly present. P99 faces many non classic community challenges, and the rate of occurence of those challenges is also non classic. The wiki is non classic, and is a source of many challenges that didn't exist in classic simply because information was harder to come by.
The PnP is classic.

P1999 is supposed to recreate the classic experience as closely as possible according to its stated intent.

Why its not enforced given the ease of enforcing (does not require coding, more resources than the current ruleset - likely substantially less) it raises some interesting questions IMO.

Ignorance of the situation whereby you state "just wait for the camp" doesn't help. You cannot wait for a camp when a person or guild is monopolizing things like Scout with autofire or hate golems with round the clock farming.

There is a reason some epic pieces are farmed and hoarded on alts to be sold for 500,000 pp. There is also a reason you often see the words "WTS loot rights" in EC or forum posts. Reason is not to do with people waiting a few hours to get their camp.

When you consider 500,000 pp would take a normal (non-neckbeard) a year or two of farming the suggestion the camps are available is ludicrous.