View Full Version : Scout Roll: Can roll for others?
Doujou
10-05-2017, 12:30 PM
Didn't think this was the case but wanted to clarify.
Today Aikons from AM won the roll and turned in tools, but let Sovs from AM (who rolled and lost) loot the gear.
From my understanding, the winner of the roll turns in tools and loots gear. The fact you rolled is your agreement to the player-made agreement. Am I wrong in understanding how this works?
Legidias
10-05-2017, 01:00 PM
Roll is just for turn in (needs tools) / "ownership" of spawned mob, that person can then decide whatever to do with loot including looting, giving, or even destroying if thats what they really want in life.
Diabolic2442
10-05-2017, 01:05 PM
Didn't think this was the case but wanted to clarify.
Today Aikons from AM won the roll and turned in tools, but let Sovs from AM (who rolled and lost) loot the gear.
From my understanding, the winner of the roll turns in tools and loots gear. The fact you rolled is your agreement to the player-made agreement. Am I wrong in understanding how this works?
I thought I've seen people sell MQ's of this if they win the roll. Is that also not allowed?
Doujou
10-05-2017, 01:22 PM
I thought I've seen people sell MQ's of this if they win the roll. Is that also not allowed?
If what Legidias says is true, then I don't see why not. I hope that's not the case, as I thought the roll agreement was that the winner turns in tools / loots item. What's stopping people from camping a factioned toon there and rolling, then selling MQs? People will stop helping, as they're not going to constantly help people pull/tag/kill Captain so said person can sell a MQ.
username17
10-05-2017, 01:30 PM
The player agreement I see stated every Scout is you roll only if you have tools. You turn in tools. YOU loot the gear and turn it in.
Based on those rules everyone (well most people) stick around to help with the kill. I agree with Doujou if people start selling their rolls as MQs/Loot rights nobody's gonna stick around and help.
SiouxNation
10-05-2017, 01:56 PM
Greed ruining a great experience on P99? I'm shocked.
Ay_1017
10-05-2017, 02:02 PM
That's what AM always do, no surprise at all
Dreenk317
10-05-2017, 02:12 PM
every scout ive been to has had the "you roll, you turn in tools, you loot disk" rules, if im not mistaken, by rolling, you have agreed to the rules, and if you then break them, you are in violation of a player made agreement. and iirc, Sirken said in his last stream that he would enforce player made agreements among those parties that had consented to them. So, if someone rolls, and then sells it, or swaps to an alt to loot, or gives to a guildy. Theyve technically broken the player made agreement as stated before the rolls happened.
Maner
10-05-2017, 02:19 PM
every scout ive been to has had the "you roll, you turn in tools, you loot disk" rules, if im not mistaken, by rolling, you have agreed to the rules, and if you then break them, you are in violation of a player made agreement. and iirc, Sirken said in his last stream that he would enforce player made agreements among those parties that had consented to them. So, if someone rolls, and then sells it, or swaps to an alt to loot, or gives to a guildy. Theyve technically broken the player made agreement as stated before the rolls happened.
Please show me where this player made agreement has been formalized in writing and isn't just your assumptions and or opinion of how things should be.
NecroP99
10-05-2017, 02:31 PM
Picking a fight with Aikons is not a good idea - he is AM royalty (and he is honestly a really nice guy from my interactions with him)
Erati
10-05-2017, 02:48 PM
Roll is just for turn in (needs tools) / "ownership" of spawned mob, that person can then decide whatever to do with loot including looting, giving, or even destroying if thats what they really want in life.
this is why Scout tools rolling is stupid and doesnt solve the bigger issue with how easy it is to re-acquire tools.
Rivera
10-05-2017, 02:48 PM
Picking a fight with Aikons is not a good idea - he is AM royalty (and he is honestly a really nice guy from my interactions with him) You're contradicting yourself dude.
Doujou
10-05-2017, 04:18 PM
Picking a fight with Aikons is not a good idea - he is AM royalty (and he is honestly a really nice guy from my interactions with him)
Who is picking a fight? I stated what happened.
Kesselring
10-05-2017, 04:38 PM
Please show me where this player made agreement has been formalized in writing and isn't just your assumptions and or opinion of how things should be.
Not written anywhere, thats just what people always say before every roll and everyone tends to agree. I mean it makes sense. Otherwise people will just show up with dual BoB's or talismans already and roll to sell loot or roll for their buddies.
Legidias
10-05-2017, 04:54 PM
I have never heard this loot locking at all, and it has always been roll for ownership (FTE if you will) of mob as long as you have tools regardless of what you want to do with loot, as in regular FTE rules. Seems weird this one singular mob has so many different rule sets (that have not been written anywhere?)
Dont get me wrong, I love the roll and way better than shitty click fest, but at the same time loot on this shouldnt be some special thing that no one else can loot.
People staying to kill mob is a nice courtesy even if disk is sold, since next time you might win it and not them.
And I have never seen anyone type out whole agreement before roll, its always been "Roll for charisa at XX:YY /random 1000"
Edit note: I have been there for many rolls and never won one, and am not salty in the least if someone won it fairly and decided to sell it
Boilon
10-05-2017, 04:56 PM
this is why p99 can't have nice things. Because people like to go and fuck things up.
indiscriminate_hater
10-05-2017, 05:14 PM
There's nothing wrong with selling loot rights - it's within the written rules, and it's classic. The best 20k I've spent on this server was paying someone to let me log in for 5 mins, loot disk, and grab a Talisman. The few hours I spent farming stuff to fund this purchase was infinitely more pleasing than standing around clicking at air with 20 other elfs.
Tupakk
10-05-2017, 05:38 PM
this is why Scout tools rolling is stupid and doesnt solve the bigger issue with how easy it is to re-acquire tools.
The roll stops the click/petiton fest.
Rivera
10-05-2017, 06:10 PM
The roll stops the click/petiton fest. Did you ever figure out the mystery of the NPC in Rivervale, sir?
vorpal_raddish
10-05-2017, 07:26 PM
Every time I've been at a scout roll off "you win, you loot" was specifically agreed upon beforehand, but I don't stop by it much these days.
The best 20k I've spent on this server was paying someone to let me log in for 5 mins, loot disk, and grab a Talisman. The few hours I spent farming stuff to fund this purchase was infinitely more pleasing than standing around clicking at air with 20 other elfs.
This a million times over.
azeth
10-05-2017, 07:39 PM
ITT people are mad at roll-winners selling rights, thinking it will disrupt crowd-sourcing of the force needed to kill the mob.
perhaps show up with the needed force to make the kill? then what's it matter if Aikons sells it? If you won... then you'd successfully kill and loot. And if he won... you wouldn't help.
Like was stated previously, rolling prevents the click/petition fest. It's not for any other purpose.
ZiggyTheMuss
10-05-2017, 07:42 PM
try red
scout up no rolls needed
But then that means that you would be playing on red which also means you fail at life.
Nathaniel
10-06-2017, 03:09 AM
If you are wearing Silver Bracelet of Speed and whatever other bracer from ToV that is far better than Scout bracer, you should not be going to Scout and roll. This only screws over the players there that are trying to get an upgrade, now that we finally have a nice thing going at Scout. The best thing would be if everybody agrees that Scout is you win roll - you hand in tools - you loot disc. This would stop people from bringing extra guildies in to roll just to increase win chance, selling loot rights and other forms of abusing it like we saw yesterday.
aaezil
10-06-2017, 03:13 AM
Selling winning roll - 5k get at me
Fragged
10-06-2017, 04:31 AM
Hey guys.
I didn't mean to step on anyones toes. I think I have helped more than 30 people or so get their scout items, never once sold it. This time around I chose to roll for the loot. I put in the same amount of effort as everyone else there and was lucky enough to win the loot rights.
I guess it comes down to this. If you start excluding people with rules they don't agree to, they will just chose not to roll and then you are back to the clickfest.
That being said, if anyone ever needs a hand with the captain or anything else don't hesitate to ask me for help.
Ay_1017
10-06-2017, 04:52 AM
AM does not treat player agreement as a thing.
They broke the Ring War agreement and sniped it.
Now they won the roll and passed the loot right.
William_Munny15
10-06-2017, 04:54 AM
Guess you can inspect the winner and see if they have better and not help those people who obviously have better / want to sell it? But even then it's easy to bag a bracer or whatever before the roll. Just how things are, greedy people will look at scout as easy money unfortunately. Scout Charisa serving up the devil's pie on p99 since 2015!
raato
10-06-2017, 05:28 AM
He's now a rulebreaker and wasn't much of a monk in his Europa days. There's your alternative perspective.
This is fake news tho. As former RL of Europa/CSG I have no bad words to say about him during his time in either Europa or AM.
Althought I think its a douche move to pass the roll win to some friend/guildy. And by doing so you'll soon have 100ppl at scout rolling for a "friend".
Nathaniel
10-06-2017, 05:51 AM
...
I guess it comes down to this. If you start excluding people with rules they don't agree to, they will just chose not to roll and then you are back to the clickfest.
...
So what you're saying is that if you will not be allowed to come and roll for your friends/guildies, you will just screw the roll altogether and hand in anyways? Nice.
Nixtar
10-06-2017, 06:03 AM
I guess it comes down to this. If you start excluding people with rules they don't agree to, they will just chose not to roll and then you are back to the clickfest.
Ah, the tried and true method of "if I don't get it my way, I'll take the ball home"-approach. Well, AM did it with the Ring War so I guess it is just business as usual for you guys.
The good news is you do not really need this quest since this server is already done. No more content, no secrets, just an increasingly petty and bitter end game where, I assume, the end game guilds are so bored they need the drama to keep things interesting.
Fifield
10-06-2017, 07:40 AM
WTS Scout roll turn in, 10k
Bellringer
10-06-2017, 07:49 AM
Not an uncommon theme with aftermath. This is their leadership too. A wonder example they set for their members. ;)
Fifield
10-06-2017, 08:07 AM
Not an uncommon theme with aftermath. This is their leadership too. A wonder example they set for their members. ;)
You just jump on any occasion to shit talk don't you.
Were all just competition bro, not your enemy
thiz1234
10-06-2017, 08:17 AM
WTB Scout item hit me up.
Scout went fine this morning. The person that won the roll looted the disk and got the talisman. I tanked, had adequate heals and more than 80% of the people that rolled stuck around to help out with the pull and dps afterwards.
Please don't let this get fucked up. It's working. Let it.
Rygar
10-06-2017, 08:31 AM
Hey guys, bump this thread and hopefully will cut down on some competition as it would require you to wait around for a 1hr window for Scout Charisa:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281965
LiQuid
10-06-2017, 09:17 AM
I'm sure it has happened a bunch of times before, and no one made a stink about it. The only issue here is that people saw the Aftermath tag and instantly went on the attack. If that was an untagged player, giving the item to another untagged player, no one would have a word to say.
Hate em', cause you ain't em'.
And no, I am not in Aftermath.
Eh, I dunno about that, yesterday someone in my guild won and THEN realized he didn't have his tools on him, so everyone immediately pounced and demanded it go to 2nd place who also happened to be someone in my guild. In the spirit of fair play and not wanting to upset the agreement and the wishes of the people that show up to these things every day, the 2nd place guy got the reward even tho he was willing to give it to the original guy who I can attest has put in a ton of time doing scout rolls.
And yes it HAS happened in the past where someone would win and then let their friend loot the disk, or log in an alt and loot the disk and it was frowned upon EVERY time because it's a lame way to take advantage of an otherwise honored system that is fair for everyone who shows up looking for a legitimate upgrade. The only recourse that can be taken against people that do that is to associate them with their guild tag and choose not to help them if they win another roll. This is why myself and my guild will never help a member of Savage with this fight, tho they seem to have given up the quest since all 5 of their members have finished the turn in already.
punkbythebook12
10-06-2017, 11:11 AM
Well if anyone is just gunna come roll and pass off to a friend, expect many others to come just to roll that way. Does this happen on ring roll? Hell no it doesnt. It should coincide with this also. Its a nice player agreement so far. I think that if you roll and want to pass off to a friend that you bring your own kill force. Easy peasy.
Dreenk317
10-06-2017, 11:25 AM
Please show me where this player made agreement has been formalized in writing and isn't just your assumptions and or opinion of how things should be.
Before every roll..... the rules for the roll are stated in /ooc. By rolling you have agreed to the rules, otherwise why roll? If you have agreed to the rules, by rolling, and then don't follow them, you would be in violation of said agreement.
AdrenolineLove
10-06-2017, 11:28 AM
Ive been meaning to post this for a long time because we havent had any issues like this yet. So come vote and make your opinion matter rather than beat this dead horse.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282447
Fragged
10-06-2017, 11:40 AM
Well if anyone is just gunna come roll and pass off to a friend, expect many others to come just to roll that way. Does this happen on ring roll? Hell no it doesnt. It should coincide with this also. Its a nice player agreement so far. I think that if you roll and want to pass off to a friend that you bring your own kill force. Easy peasy.
It does happen at the ring roll, A LOT. It's being heavily farmed by people that already have ring 10s, they then sell ring 9 MQs or MQ it to alts and guildies. There are people that have whole crews rolling in order to do so.
Legidias
10-06-2017, 11:42 AM
Before every roll..... the rules for the roll are stated in /ooc. By rolling you have agreed to the rules, otherwise why roll? If you have agreed to the rules, by rolling, and then don't follow them, you would be in violation of said agreement.
See earlier post, it is never stated in ooc.
Toomuch
10-06-2017, 12:13 PM
I was there for this instance of the scout roll yesterday morning, and as fate would have it, it was my first time being there. To me, it struck me as a little bit of a surprise that Aikons won the roll, as I highly doubted he needed it himself, but my very next thought was "oh, I guess that's how it works then, and it's one of those things that anyone can roll on, and sell/give away to their person of choosing". I didn't know a whole lot about the roll agreement personally, so I just thought that's how it was. Reading through this thread, however, it seems the waters are still a little bit murky on what the terms of the agreement really are.
It all comes down to the agreement being one way or the other, no room for interpretation. Either anyone/everyone can roll, or you roll for yourself only, with your own tools, your own loot. Both ways are ways that can work, and are justifiably "fair". I really am 100% OK with it either way. It just needs to be set in stone so that nobody can say "but I thought that it wasn't like that! That's not fair!!"
Fasttimes
10-06-2017, 12:14 PM
Upping my offer. WTB 22k pm me
Lojik
10-06-2017, 12:16 PM
See earlier post, it is never stated in ooc.
Do you think that the person who wins rolls needs to at least turn in tools?
I think it should be either you need tools and need to loot for yourself, or you don't need anything and anyone can roll.
thiz1234
10-06-2017, 12:19 PM
Upping my offer. WTB 22k pm me
I'll buy your paid loot right off you for 23k hit me up.
Legidias
10-06-2017, 01:02 PM
Do you think that the person who wins rolls needs to at least turn in tools?
I think it should be either you need tools and need to loot for yourself, or you don't need anything and anyone can roll.
Roll is for turn in, not rolling to designate loot, hence when you roll you turn in tools, then mob belongs to you. Not complicated in the least.
Synthlol
10-06-2017, 03:59 PM
I have all the scout items I want, but I'd love to roll for my guildmates to score them those sweet benevolence items. They've all told me that you're only allowed to roll for yourself, though. Was Aikons being sketchy, or is this actually allowed?
I get the feeling we're in the territory where it isn't against the rules, but is generally frowned upon. Except there are clearly some players that don't care.
punkbythebook12
10-06-2017, 05:09 PM
Thats funny aikons, I came a few times to ring roll to help my buddy try to win. I didnt need it of course but then people told me I couldnt roll unless i was ready for it. Didnt know shady stuff was going on. I guess you cant trust peeps nowadays. I did see something on forums about doing some sort of variance like lodi, not sure the logistics, but it seems to be better than just rolling or giving loot rights away. If u want that item so bad, camp it like most rest of us heh. just my two cents
punkbythebook12
10-06-2017, 05:12 PM
And usually people will /say 10-15 mins before scout an agreement of what to come. You dont have to agree with the terms, but most people just comply with what was said and it seems to work. other times it does not. Depends on the players. Im still going to try scout again from time to time, but any change that is done I will follow thru with :) Reputation is far more worth to me than pixels
Maner
10-06-2017, 06:27 PM
Thats funny aikons, I came a few times to ring roll to help my buddy try to win. I didnt need it of course but then people told me I couldnt roll unless i was ready for it. Didnt know shady stuff was going on. I guess you cant trust peeps nowadays. I did see something on forums about doing some sort of variance like lodi, not sure the logistics, but it seems to be better than just rolling or giving loot rights away. If u want that item so bad, camp it like most rest of us heh. just my two cents
your first problem is not being familiar with the servers rules.
your second problem was letting random people, who are not server admins, tell you what you could or couldn't do.
He literally did camp it like the "most rest of you". He rolled and won the roll, what exactly is the problem? you werent and your friend wasnt going to get the item so the final outcome has no affect on you.
Jmcwrestling
10-06-2017, 07:22 PM
I personally don't see anything wrong with selling your winning roll but I would think that out of respect to everyone there, you bring your own kill force and if you don't have one you shouldn't be able to sell it.
Or tip out each person who assisted.
Not entirely plausible but brainstorming
aaezil
10-06-2017, 11:58 PM
Oh my god guys you mean AM is trying to be shady and skirt the rules/player agreements? That's like so not like them - what happened?
Maner
10-07-2017, 12:32 AM
Oh my god guys you mean AM is trying to be shady and skirt the rules/player agreements? That's like so not like them - what happened?
What player made agreement? All i see is one person trying to push their opinion onto everyone with over 30% who voted disagreeing. Doesn't sound like there currently is a player agreement on scout.
Dreenk317
10-07-2017, 12:49 AM
See earlier post, it is never stated in ooc.
Whatever, it's put in a public channel and everyone can see it if they are at scout.
Rivera
10-07-2017, 12:51 AM
This really has all the ingredients for an RNF thread now.
Move please.
Freakish
10-07-2017, 01:16 AM
When is scout?
Canelek
10-07-2017, 01:24 AM
What player made agreement? All i see is one person trying to push their opinion onto everyone with over 30% who voted disagreeing. Doesn't sound like there currently is a player agreement on scout.
Weeelll, 30% disagreeing would simply constitute a minority disagreeing.
Now that that has been stated, I do agree that the loot rights on the roll should be counted as such and the roll winner should be able to do what he wants with the loot. Fair or not, it sure as shit beats some asshats with macro-click applications to gain unfair advantage.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 11:28 AM
Didn't think this was the case but wanted to clarify.
Today Aikons from AM won the roll and turned in tools, but let Sovs from AM (who rolled and lost) loot the gear.
From my understanding, the winner of the roll turns in tools and loots gear. The fact you rolled is your agreement to the player-made agreement. Am I wrong in understanding how this works?
Roll is just for turn in (needs tools) / "ownership" of spawned mob, that person can then decide whatever to do with loot including looting, giving, or even destroying if thats what they really want in life.
The fact that this is how it is is exactly why the roll format is shit. What I've been saying all along.
loramin
10-07-2017, 12:22 PM
The fact that this is how it is is exactly why the roll format is shit. What I've been saying all along.
Here's the thing: there's the server we want, and the server we have. If I phrased a poll the right way I'm willing to bet 10k plat I could get a majority to say that they (like me) want a server that goes to PoP ... but it wouldn't matter, because the devs will never even go to Luclin.
Same deal here: many people want a fair GM-enforced mechanism that prioritizes the people who most deserve the spawn to get it. That's a great idea, and I fully support the spirit in which my awesome guild mate Glitter proposed it ... but it can't happen because the staff won't go for it (if only because they are 100% volunteers and are busy enough without having to add more work for themselves).
Because of this, any agreement whatsoever has to be opt-in: whether we like it or not that's how this server works. This is why even the roll agreement is tentative: if assholes (not naming any names) don't agree and want to have a click-fight, they can.
However, as I pointed out in the other thread, there's one other piece here, and that's the fact that the players involved also "opt-in" to helping whoever wins the roll with their fight. Now if that player isn't doing the fight for themselves, all those other players may not want to help them, and they have a 100% legitimate right not to do so.
TLDR: Here's what I suggest. Leave the roll itself as is, not necessarily because it's what anyone wants, but because we can all agree that it's better than a click fest (and we can't agree on anything else). But when it comes time to fight after, everyone helping should demand that the roll winner say who they're doing it for. If they lie and people help them they've violated the server rule on defrauding. But if they are doing it for themselves they get to see the great spirit of this server with free help from kind people.
I'm not saying it's the best possible option, but it seems like the best possible option for our server, with it's limits.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 01:13 PM
I feel like I needed to break down your post one-by-one, and offer rebuttals. So here we go:
many people want a fair GM-enforced mechanism that prioritizes the people who most deserve the spawn to get it.
Will never happen because there is no way to truly prioritize "who most deserve."
Because of this, any agreement whatsoever has to be opt-in: whether we like it or not that's how this server works. This is why even the roll agreement is tentative: if assholes (not naming any names) don't agree and want to have a click-fight, they can.
These "assholes" are people who keep the spirit of classic alive, which is the key founding element of this server.
However, as I pointed out in the other thread, there's one other piece here, and that's the fact that the players involved also "opt-in" to helping whoever wins the roll with their fight.
And what stops this from happening during the classic click-fest? Besides the people who feel like they're entitled to loot because they can't EQ as well as other players.
Now if that player isn't doing the fight for themselves, all those other players may not want to help them, and they have a 100% legitimate right not to do so.
There is no definite way to figure out whether or not someone is doing the fight for themselves. So this point is about as sharp as a spoon.
TLDR: Here's what I suggest. Leave the roll itself as is, not necessarily because it's what anyone wants, but because we can all agree that it's better than a click fest (and we can't agree on anything else). But when it comes time to fight after, everyone helping should demand that the roll winner say who they're doing it for. If they lie and people help them they've violated the server rule on defrauding. But if they are doing it for themselves they get to see the great spirit of this server with free help from kind people.
If you wanted a roll rule, then it should be only ONE roll per GUILD. This was a suggestion by a dude a while back at Scout that didn't make much sense to me at the time, however, based on OP's complaint (amongst other compliants, similar, from other players), this is probably the most logical player agreement that could be made. I say this, because it prevents Asshole Soandso and his band of 10 to 30 dingleberries from tipping the scale in their favor. It would make a fair chance across the board, and people could still assist in the fight. And at that point, if a guild wanted to decide who the loot would go to, they could without other people being salty about it.
Buuuuuuuut, people on this server don't understand logic, so it'll never happen. Therefore, I stay in favor of the click-a-thon.
Naethyn
10-07-2017, 01:35 PM
TLDR: Here's what I suggest. Leave the roll itself as is, not necessarily because it's what anyone wants, but because we can all agree that it's better than a click fest (and we can't agree on anything else). But when it comes time to fight after, everyone helping should demand that the roll winner say who they're doing it for. If they lie and people help them they've violated the server rule on defrauding. But if they are doing it for themselves they get to see the great spirit of this server with free help from kind people.
I'm not saying it's the best possible option, but it seems like the best possible option for our server, with it's limits.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 01:48 PM
TLDR: Here's what I suggest. Leave the roll itself as is, not necessarily because it's what anyone wants, but because we can all agree that it's better than a click fest (and we can't agree on anything else). But when it comes time to fight after, everyone helping should demand that the roll winner say who they're doing it for. If they lie and people help them they've violated the server rule on defrauding. But if they are doing it for themselves they get to see the great spirit of this server with free help from kind people.
I'm not saying it's the best possible option, but it seems like the best possible option for our server, with it's limits.
Come up with that all on your own? :-P
Naethyn
10-07-2017, 01:52 PM
Come up with that all on your own? :-P
Are you one of the guys upset that it isn't a click fest? I'm guessing you've deleted all of your texture files to click faster and now that is all for nothing. Hope you have a backup.
loramin
10-07-2017, 02:03 PM
There is no definite way to figure out whether or not someone is doing the fight for themselves. So this point is about as sharp as a spoon.
But there is, and it doesn't require any new rules to implement. Let me walk you through it:
Bob: I won the roll
Fred: Congrats! I will help you if you are doing this for yourself; are you?
Bob: Yes
Bob: *wins fight with Fred's help, let's Chris loot the corpse.*
Fred /petition Bob just violated server rule 4.9
4.9. You may not defraud other players.
Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense.
Maner
10-07-2017, 02:06 PM
But there is, and it doesn't require any new rules to implement. Let me walk you through it:
Bob: I won the roll
Fred: Congrats! I will help you if you are doing this for yourself; are you?
Bob: Yes
Bob: *wins fight with Fred's help, let's Chris loot the corpse.*
Fred /petition Bob just violated server rule 4.9
But how do you know Fred actually looted it without petitioning and having the GMs look into it?
loramin
10-07-2017, 02:07 PM
But how do you know Fred actually looted it without petitioning and having the GMs look into it?
(Point of clarification: Chris is Bob's guildmate/customer/whatever; Fred is the guy helping with the fight.)
Well if you (Fred) hang around don't you see Chris physically loot the corpse?
P.S. Re:
Come up with that all on your own? :-P
This forum has a convention where if you agree with someone (but don't have anything in particular to add) you quote their message, or at least part of it, verbatim. If you watch for it now you'll likely notice that many of us longtime posters use this technique, so it's not like Naethyn was being unoriginal, he was just sort of saying "I agree with this" in the way that's part of our forum culture.
Fasttimes
10-07-2017, 02:07 PM
Still wtb 4 scouts PM me
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 02:12 PM
But there is, and it doesn't require any new rules to implement. Let me walk you through it:
Bob: I won the roll
Fred: Congrats! I will help you if you are doing this for yourself; are you?
Bob: Yes
Bob: *wins fight with Fred's help, let's Chris loot the corpse.*
Fred /petition Bob just violated server rule 4.9
So your solution to Scout is to require the GMs, who created and assist this server out of the kindness of their hearts, to babysit more than what they already do now? Pretty sure Rogean & Co. don't want to, nor do they truly give a shit about Scout Charisa and the dramatic bullshit it carries. Which is why its been a click FTE mob since the beginning, as it was on live EQ some nearly 17 years ago.
loramin
10-07-2017, 02:21 PM
So your solution to Scout is to require the GMs, who created and assist this server out of the kindness of their hearts, to babysit more than what they already do now? Pretty sure Rogean & Co. don't want to, nor do they truly give a shit about Scout Charisa and the dramatic bullshit it carries. Which is why its been a click FTE mob since the beginning, as it was on live EQ some nearly 17 years ago.
The staff would only be involved in the very rare occasions when one asshole lies to his fellow players in order to get assistance with his fight. This would be an incredibly small minority of all such fights, as most players would either:
A) tell the truth and do the roll for themselves
B) tell the truth and bring a kill force
C) tell the truth and acknowledge that they are doing the roll for someone else, but politely ask for help anyway (I imagine many players still would)
The only time the staff would be involved is if a player lies to his fellow players to get loot ... just like the staff only gets involved in trades when one player lies to another to get loot. Having the defrauding rule doesn't get them involved in the 99.9% of normal/legit trades.
Lotta dudes here in need of some estrogen blockers.
Should check out Amazon.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 02:26 PM
Are you one of the guys upset that it isn't a click fest? I'm guessing you've deleted all of your texture files to click faster and now that is all for nothing. Hope you have a backup.
Actually, its still an click FTE mob, regardless of this so-called roll agreement. But more importantly the serious question: How does removing texture files help for faster click?
I've never heard of such a thing before. Then again I play a pretty solid comp with some pretty solid internet, so I may not have to.
EDIT: Forgot to answer your question. No, I'm not upset. I just think the roll thing is stupid and pointless because of instances such as the OPs original post and amongst other scenarios.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 02:28 PM
Lotta dudes here in need of some estrogen blockers.
Should check out Amazon.
Lol
Naethyn
10-07-2017, 02:28 PM
Actually, its still an click FTE mob, regardless of this so-called roll agreement. But more importantly the serious question: How does removing texture files help for faster click?
I've never heard of such a thing before. Then again I play a pretty solid comp with some pretty solid internet, so I may not have to.
You can remove texture files thereby making the mob box appear faster on your screen. The guys who show up and win this every time they are there are doing this, and more.
Knowing that invalidates any argument I've come across that says it should continue as an FTE click fest.
loramin
10-07-2017, 02:30 PM
Actually, its still an click FTE mob, regardless of this so-called roll agreement. But more importantly the serious question: How does removing texture files help for faster click?
I've never heard of such a thing before. Then again I play a pretty solid comp with some pretty solid internet, so I may not have to.
If we can just take a step back here, do you think players should have an equal chance? Just as a general concept in games, do you think the guy with (for instance) more money should have an advantage over other players? If you honestly answer yes then (with no snarkiness intended) might I suggest that a Daybreak server might serve you better?
But if you think basic player equality is a good thing, try to see the basics of click vs. roll. Click wins are influenced by various factors, one of which is your ability to cheat without getting caught (another, evidently, is your texture settings). Rolls are fair and give every participant (no matter what setup, checkbook balance, etc. they have) an equal chance.
Isn't that better?
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 02:34 PM
You can remove texture files thereby making the mob box appear faster on your screen. The guys who show up and win this every time they are there are doing this, and more.
Knowing that invalidates any argument I've come across that says it should continue as an FTE click fest.
Are these custom texture files you're referring to? If so, then thats not the problem of anyone other than the person using them. And if so, that invalidates the argument of the roll.
Naethyn
10-07-2017, 02:35 PM
Are these custom texture files you're referring to? If so, then thats not the problem of anyone other than the person using them. And if so, that invalidates the argument of the roll.
No
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 02:40 PM
If we can just take a step back here, do you think players should have an equal chance? Just as a general concept in games, do you think the guy with (for instance) more money should have an advantage over other players? If you honestly answer yes then (with no snarkiness intended) might I suggest that a Daybreak server might serve you better?
MFer, you're the one that's suggesting to bring a non-classic rule into a classic environment. Maybe a Daybreak server might serve you better, lol.
But if you think basic player equality is a good thing, try to see the basics of click vs. roll. Click wins are influenced by various factors, one of which is your ability to cheat without getting caught (another, evidently, is your texture settings). Rolls are fair and give every participant (no matter what setup, checkbook balance, etc. they have) an equal chance.
Isn't that better?
If something is against the rules, I'm sure Rogean & Co. would do something about it as is.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 02:42 PM
No
Is there actual proof of this working? Anyone have a video anywhere?
Triiz
10-07-2017, 02:50 PM
If we can just take a step back here, do you think players should have an equal chance? Just as a general concept in games, do you think the guy with (for instance) more money should have an advantage over other players? If you honestly answer yes then (with no snarkiness intended) might I suggest that a Daybreak server might serve you better?
But if you think basic player equality is a good thing, try to see the basics of click vs. roll. Click wins are influenced by various factors, one of which is your ability to cheat without getting caught (another, evidently, is your texture settings). Rolls are fair and give every participant (no matter what setup, checkbook balance, etc. they have) an equal chance.
Isn't that better?
This has been mentioned in some of the other 100's of scout threads I think, but one of the "advantages" is also determined by where you live. My ping pretty much never goes over 30-40ms, but I know people with decent internet/computers that say theirs pretty much never goes below 100ms. Not sure how much of an advantage that actually gives because I would never spam click air for "fun", but there's really no way for everyone to be on equal footing for something as stupid as that.
Is there actual proof of this working? Anyone have a video anywhere?
I doubt people cheating are uploading videos of them cheating. Probably learned from the mistakes of the alt-tab jump FTE guys.
Lojik
10-07-2017, 02:55 PM
Is there actual proof of this working? Anyone have a video anywhere?
IDK, maybe it's true? But I feel like it just replaced the "they're using auto fire" complaints, probably because GMs told someone that winners weren't using auto fire.
I had 0 problems winning click fest w/o auto fire or macros or messing with files.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 03:43 PM
IDK, maybe it's true? But I feel like it just replaced the "they're using auto fire" complaints, probably because GMs told someone that winners weren't using auto fire.
I had 0 problems winning click fest w/o auto fire or macros or messing with files.
Me either since I learned the strategy of how to do it.
Pokesan
10-07-2017, 03:43 PM
I'm willing to take Naethyn at his word, he's a very experienced player and knows all the dirty tricks.
a video would require the offender being dumb enough to fraps themselves cheating...
Check12345
10-07-2017, 04:30 PM
I feel like I needed to break down your post one-by-one, and offer rebuttals. So here we go:
Will never happen because there is no way to truly prioritize "who most deserve."
These "assholes" are people who keep the spirit of classic alive, which is the key founding element of this server.
And what stops this from happening during the classic click-fest? Besides the people who feel like they're entitled to loot because they can't EQ as well as other players.
There is no definite way to figure out whether or not someone is doing the fight for themselves. So this point is about as sharp as a spoon.
If you wanted a roll rule, then it should be only ONE roll per GUILD. This was a suggestion by a dude a while back at Scout that didn't make much sense to me at the time, however, based on OP's complaint (amongst other compliants, similar, from other players), this is probably the most logical player agreement that could be made. I say this, because it prevents Asshole Soandso and his band of 10 to 30 dingleberries from tipping the scale in their favor. It would make a fair chance across the board, and people could still assist in the fight. And at that point, if a guild wanted to decide who the loot would go to, they could without other people being salty about it.
Buuuuuuuut, people on this server don't understand logic, so it'll never happen. Therefore, I stay in favor of the click-a-thon.
what
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 04:35 PM
what
You don't quote so well. lol
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 04:37 PM
IDK, maybe it's true? But I feel like it just replaced the "they're using auto fire" complaints, probably because GMs told someone that winners weren't using auto fire.
I had 0 problems winning click fest w/o auto fire or macros or messing with files.
I mean...thats what it feels like to me. I could be wrong though.
Naethyn
10-07-2017, 04:48 PM
Anyone who doesn't think this is going on hasn't experienced the end game of this server where every tiny advantage is exploited to its fullest. In many ways this is pretty cool, eq game mechanics pushed the furthest, but sometimes it is just cheating.
This didn't start at scout.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 05:21 PM
Anyone who doesn't think this is going on hasn't experienced the end game of this server where every tiny advantage is exploited to its fullest. In many ways this is pretty cool, eq game mechanics pushed the furthest, but sometimes it is just cheating.
This didn't start at scout.
So...sometimes it's cool and sometimes it's cheating? Got it.
Pokesan
10-07-2017, 05:31 PM
So...sometimes it's cool and sometimes it's cheating? Got it.
you are arguing in extremely bad faith. cut it out this is server chat.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 06:38 PM
you are arguing in extremely bad faith. cut it out this is server chat.
I'm arguing in bad faith? How's that? I'm pointing out how dumb statement sounds exactly that: Dumb.
skarlorn
10-07-2017, 06:54 PM
I'm arguing in bad faith? How's that? I'm pointing out how dumb statement sounds exactly that: Dumb.
Stop it.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 06:58 PM
Stop it.
No
Pokesan
10-07-2017, 08:31 PM
No
mind your agreement, boy
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 09:36 PM
mind your agreement, boy
Boy? Lol.
I mind my agreement in the forum. Fact of the matter is that you can't create a rational or logical thought to counter with. So instead you decide to try to fling a petty and insinuating insult to make a poor attempt to get under my skin. So unless you actually have a point to make in the original context of this thread, I advise you to take your petty insults to my inbox and mind your policy agreement, son. :D
Rivera
10-07-2017, 09:52 PM
:D You're not fooling anyone.
Pokesan
10-07-2017, 09:56 PM
Stop it.
ErlickBachman
10-07-2017, 10:19 PM
No
Pokesan
10-08-2017, 12:10 AM
it's treason, then
aaezil
10-08-2017, 10:00 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_damage
Baler
10-08-2017, 10:40 AM
No you can't roll for someone else. What do you think this is a game?
Cecily
10-08-2017, 03:53 PM
So...sometimes it's cool and sometimes it's cheating? Got it.
It's a very important distinction depending upon if it's your guild doing it or someone else.
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