Bring back the Seafurys

[Kelor]

Since the nerf to seafurys prices seem to of gone down a lot, nothing seems to be worth much anymore. Only thing that seems to of gone up is fungi for some reason?

[Lhancelot]

Since the nerf to seafurys prices seem to of gone down a lot, nothing seems to be worth much anymore. Only thing that seems to of gone up is fungi for some reason?

https://i.imgur.com/tAaDmlz.gif

[Rivera]

We've always gone through pockets like this. Lots of drama queens lately.

[aaezil]

somebody call the waaaaaaahmbulance?

[Lhancelot]

We've always gone through pockets like this.

https://i.imgur.com/thRlo7W.gif

[Triiz]

Every item on this server that still drops should be becoming less valuable. When the demand (population) goes down or stays the same, and the supply is unchanged shit shouldn't hold the same value forever.

Prices should be dropping more than they have, fat cats and stupidity prop them up.

[Premaximum]

Every item on this server that still drops should be becoming less valuable. When the demand (population) goes down or stays the same, and the supply is unchanged shit shouldn't hold the same value forever.

Prices should be dropping more than they have, fat cats and stupidity prop them up.

It's not that simple, honestly. You're not factoring in the fact that even if the population remains stable, people make new characters every day, and those characters buy all new items.

[Baler]

You can still get exp from doing seafuries. For a part of my mage's life that's how I got exp.
Also I said it before and I'll say it again. Sea fury drop table was just brought down to be in line with other mobs that drop similar stuff. Nerf well yes but it's just the way it should have been from the start.

If your life revolved around sea furies I feel bad for you son I got P99 problems but a seafury aint 1.

---
Every item on this server that still drops should be becoming less valuable. When the demand (population) goes down or stays the same, and the supply is unchanged shit shouldn't hold the same value forever.
Project 1999 Does not have supply and demand. The sooner you understand that the sooner you'll see things for what they are.
If that's the only economy you know of google the phrase "economic systems". Not trying to talk down to you. I wish more people understood the diversity of economics.

[Dreenk317]

Every item on this server that still drops should be becoming less valuable. When the demand (population) goes down or stays the same, and the supply is unchanged shit shouldn't hold the same value forever.

Prices should be dropping more than they have, fat cats and stupidity prop them up.

You know that's not the case when there is most likely more cloaks of flame on the server than active players, and there still worth 70k

P99 economy is special.

[Raev]

I'm curious why you say P99 does not have supply and demand, and I'm far to lazy to google it and try to guess what you are saying.

[Lhancelot]

If your life revolved around sea furies I feel bad for you son I got P99 problems but a seafury aint 1.

---

Project 1999 Does not have supply and demand. The sooner you understand that the sooner you'll see things for what they are.
If that's the only economy you know of google the phrase "economic systems". Not trying to talk down to you. I wish more people understood the diversity of economics.

OP probably doesn't even kill SFs. :rolleyes:

Holgresh Elder Beads. They no longer drop, were not farmed for years before they were nerfed, and the price on Beads has jumped quite rapidly since they were nerfed. That's "supply and demand," isn't it? A lack of beads dropping, becoming more rare over time has definitely made them more valuable.

[solleks]

just because people have cof in their posession doesnt count as supply just cause you googled something doednt make you smart

[Triiz]

It's not that simple, honestly. You're not factoring in the fact that even if the population remains stable, people make new characters every day, and those characters buy all new items.

People have always made alts.


Project 1999 Does not have supply and demand. The sooner you understand that the sooner you'll see things for what they are.
If that's the only economy you know of google the phrase "economic systems". Not trying to talk down to you. I wish more people understood the diversity of economics.

P99 does have supply and demand. If Fungi's stopped dropping tomorrow, they would be 500k+. Drums of the beast went from 250k to ~100k in less than a year and still dropping because even though it's a BIS droppable item there wasn't enough bards that give a shit. If the population doubled tomorrow, the price of everything would go up. If there are multiple people in EC trying to sell the same item and no one is buying they will start undercutting each other, what is that if not supply and demand?

There are exceptions, and like I said fat cat manipulation and stupidity plays a large part, but supply and demand is the guiding principle.

[Lhancelot]

just cause you googled something doesn't make you smart

QFT ^

[Baler]

*sigh* what ever you people tell yourselves to sleep well at night I guess.

P99's economy is not supply and demand.

[Lhancelot]

P99's economy is not supply and demand.

If you mean, does not have supply and demand then you are wrong. Many items like Holgresh Elder Beads prove this. P99 economy is screwy but it most certainly does involve supply and demand.

[solleks]

googling shit does not mean jack shit cat boi, baler you are a fucking conspiracy theory dumb ass. its a free market with random dropping goodies that people use their plat to buy.

[Transylvania]

OP probably doesn't even kill SFs. :rolleyes:

Holgresh Elder Beads. They no longer drop, were not farmed for years before they were nerfed

Holgresh Elder Beads did not exist until Velious live in early 2016 and were farmed 24/7 with a list a light-year long.

[Baler]

Don't get it twisted or try to put words in mouth. For the third time P99 aint supply and demand. Otherwise all items would work that way. :)
Don't hate because you don't want to try & understand. Also this 'google' excuse to not educate yourself is weak. Google is a search engine, it doesn't actually supply the information.

---
Meanwhile fat cats are laughing at us spamming EC.

---
On topic There is enough plat on p99 to emulate old Sea Fury drops for the next 10 years+.

[solleks]

Google is a faux search engine , it controls the collective mind and theory nuts like you. the only way that p99 would not be supply and demand is if the supply was controlled and its not. its a fair competition so neck beard harder if you want to control the supply. is someone stopping you from getting items?

[Skew]

P99 NEEDS A FEDERAL RESERVE.
STABLE PRICES MEANS 2% INFLATION PER YEAR!! WUT?

[Triiz]

If you mean, does not have supply and demand then you are wrong. Many items like Holgresh Elder Beads prove this. P99 economy is screwy but it most certainly does involve supply and demand.

Even some stuff that still drops go up because of patches that impact the supply and demand. People think the triple attack patch is coming soon (for almost a year now lol) so the demand for T-Staff goes up, the price almost doubles, and stays there. Sneak pulling nerf happened, Bio Orb became more useful for pulling, price skyrockets.

[Lhancelot]

Even some stuff that still drops go up because of patches that impact the supply and demand. People think the triple attack patch is coming soon (for almost a year now lol) so the demand for T-Staff goes up, the price almost doubles, and stays there. Sneak pulling nerf happened, Bio Orb became more useful for pulling, price skyrockets.

Right. ^

I honestly have no idea how Baler says "there's no suppy and demand on p99," then proclaim all who do not agree as ignorant or less intelligent.

It's pretty clear there definitely is a supply and demand facet to the economy on p99.

[Tiax]

P99's economy is not supply and demand.

Explain what you mean, or be quiet.

[Lhancelot]

Explain what you mean, or be quiet.

He won't bother, it's too complicated for people like us. :p

[NachtMystium]

Lol @ Baler's argument.

"P99 is not supply and demand"
"It's not entirely supply and demand, but there are are S&D factors in the economy"
"*sigh* it is not supply and demand, youre stupid"
"What do you mean IT *isn't*? The economy is more complex than that"
"Gahhh, you just don't get it. It's not supply and demand"

Gee whizz, what a supreme economic genius

[Baler]

There comes a point where people are so rooted in their own belief they can't even hear you if you're screaming it in their face. And that's what is happening. Shit posting and people looking for me to slip up and say something dumb.

I never claimed to be the all knowing economist. But I know for a fact that P99 and other emulated mmorpg servers are not supply and demand. And just because YOU don't have my experience doesn't mean I'm wrong. But if you're unwilling to even consider the idea then anything I say will just be another log on your fire.

inb4 someone quotes a specific spot or trys to twist my words. I make 1 post and people start having a conniption. jeez.

[NachtMystium]

There comes a point where people are so rooted in their own belief they can't even hear you if you're screaming it in their face. And that's what is happening. Shit posting and people looking for me to slip up and say something dumb.

I never claimed to be the all knowing economist. But I know for a fact that P99 and other emulated mmorpg servers are not supply and demand. And just because YOU don't have my experience doesn't mean I'm wrong. But if you're unwilling to even consider the idea then anything I say will just be another log on your fire.

inb4 someone quotes a specific spot or trys to twist my words. I make 1 post and people start having a conniption. jeez.

It's not that you "just made one post not claming anything"

It's that you made a post refuting someone and if someone asks you "What do you mean?" You just reply with "You're just wrong, sorry if you don't believe me". Not a very engaging discussion and worthy of mockery.

[Faiding]

There comes a point where people are so rooted in their own belief they can't even hear you if you're screaming it in their face. And that's what is happening. Shit posting and people looking for me to slip up and say something dumb.

I never claimed to be the all knowing economist. But I know for a fact that P99 and other emulated mmorpg servers are not supply and demand. And just because YOU don't have my experience doesn't mean I'm wrong. But if you're unwilling to even consider the idea then anything I say will just be another log on your fire.

inb4 someone quotes a specific spot or trys to twist my words. I make 1 post and people start having a conniption. jeez.

Any market, real or virtual, that has an exchange of goods or services incorporates the economic principle of supply and demand. What you really meant to say was "some emulated mmorpg servers have a lower price elasticity of demand than others".

Other than that, you are simply incorrect.

[fadetree]

There comes a point where people are so rooted in their own belief they can't even hear you if you're screaming it in their face. And that's what is happening. Shit posting and people looking for me to slip up and say something dumb.

I never claimed to be the all knowing economist. But I know for a fact that P99 and other emulated mmorpg servers are not supply and demand. And just because YOU don't have my experience doesn't mean I'm wrong. But if you're unwilling to even consider the idea then anything I say will just be another log on your fire.

inb4 someone quotes a specific spot or trys to twist my words. I make 1 post and people start having a conniption. jeez.

Well, alright, so explain it. All you've done is say people are wrong and should google. Explain what you mean, please, I actually am interested. I like economics theory, and I'd be interested in what you have to say besides 'you are all wrong'.

[Pokesan]

thread is supplying the lols but i must demand more!

good troll baler-kun

[NachtMystium]

thread is supplying the lols but i must demand more!

good troll baler-kun

"I was only pretending to be retarded!!!"

[dbouya]

Well for one everquest is too small of an economy to see supply and demand hold up reliably. it's too easy for something like one man on earth owning every pig on earth (didn't that actually happen once or some shit in the 1910s?). It's too easy to setup an epic MQ cartel that price fixes to keep prices high, not even necessarily for profit, but to justify their own interest in the task with their guild in the first place.

But it's hard to see what baler's point is when he doesn't elaborate.

[Lhancelot]

"I was only pretending to be retarded!!!"

I am highly disappointed in Pokesan, giving troll credit when Baler was 100% serious in his highly intelligent (sarcasm there) argument of why p99 "is not supply and demand," whatever that even means. :p

To the point of fungis rising, I honestly believe they have been rare enough that all it took was for 3-5 people to bump the price up on them to make them seem to have gone up in worth.

Fatjoe and Co. seem to have stopped their fungi tunic farm machine awhile back, and since then you don't see a fungi hitting the market every other hour. (Slight exaggeration, but there were far more fungis being farmed and sold 1-2 months and further back.) Not to say only Fatjoe was farming fungis for sales but I just noticed him more than others in the past.

As for Seafuries, I feel these have nothing to do with prices going up or down. Some things have gone up lately, while others have gone down. Mostly high end items seem to be more expensive than in the past while low tier items have dropped. Seafuries being nerfed wouldn't have this kind of impact on item prices imo.

[fastboy21]

Virtual world economics are actually kind of interesting, especially when they interact with real world money (not p1999 of course).

Its true that one of the fun things about virtual world economies is that not all logical premises that exist in the real world necessarily exist. I.E. Just because something works a certain way in the real world doesn't mean that it will work that way in the virtual world. In the end, if you want to prove something about p1999's economy you have to demonstrate it in the data...which isn't exactly easy to gather or control for.

In any case, I'm not sure what the poster means by saying that there isn't a supply and demand of goods and services in p1999. It certainly seems to me that there is. If he is saying something slightly more subtle, like the real world expectations about supply and demand don't exist that is possible...but it wouldn't be totally analogous imo. There is a limited production of goods, limited demand for goods, etc. Since the problem of scarcity exists in our p1999 virtual world I'm not sure what reason there would be to throw out supply and demand as reasonable describers of p1999's virtual economy.

[Lhancelot]

Virtual world economics are actually kind of interesting, especially when they interact with real world money (not p1999 of course).

Its true that one of the fun things about virtual world economies is that not all logical premises that exist in the real world necessarily exist. I.E. Just because something works a certain way in the real world doesn't mean that it will work that way in the virtual world. In the end, if you want to prove something about p1999's economy you have to demonstrate it in the data...which isn't exactly easy to gather or control for.

In any case, I'm not sure what the poster means by saying that there isn't a supply and demand of goods and services in p1999. It certainly seems to me that there is. If he is saying something slightly more subtle, like the real world expectations about supply and demand don't exist that is possible...but it wouldn't be totally analogous imo. There is a limited production of goods, limited demand for goods, etc. Since the problem of scarcity exists in our p1999 virtual world I'm not sure what reason there would be to throw out supply and demand as reasonable describers of p1999's virtual economy.

OP never mentioned supply and demand, that discussion began with Baler. We still waiting for his explanation of how p99 "is not supply and demand."

[Rivera]

Good stuff in here.

Arguing online is retarded.

Like, actually retarded.

You're sitting here typing paragraphs at a complete stranger you've never and will never meet. This solves nothing 98% of the time.

[Lhancelot]

Good stuff in here.

Arguing online is retarded.

Like, actually retarded.

You're sitting here typing paragraphs at a complete stranger you've never and will never meet. This solves nothing 98% of the time.

But it's fun. Sometimes you got to do things for the giggles, and not worry about solving anything. :D

[Jimjam]

Good stuff in here.

Arguing online is retarded.

Like, actually retarded.

You're sitting here typing paragraphs at a complete stranger you've never and will never meet. This solves nothing 98% of the time.

The eventual heat death of the universe can never be solved.

All we can do is to make sure everyone has plenty of lolz so our hearts aren't cold and empty unlike existence's fate.

[Mead]

Baler pulled a Swish. It got too hot in here. Time to bounce.

[fadetree]

yeah. He could at least have made up some shit with scientific-sounding terminology in it, it doesn't take much to fool a lot of people.

[Lojik]

Baler is right there is no supply and demand in EQ. I got my masters in Eqonomics and one of the topics we covered was behavioral economics and price theory in virtual worlds. We only spent a few classes talking about p99 in particular but essentially Rogean et al act very similar to the federal reserve in manipulating the platinum supply. Sometimes they do it directly via bans to accounts with lots of platinum or items(under the guise of RMT enforcement) and then other times they use a different approach and tamper with the velocity of platinum (nerfing seafuries to "bring in line with classic drop tables.") p99 is actually a secret branch of the federal reserve, and if you look closely at patch dates and nerft dates you'll see that it's all an attempt to achieve target employment rates in the general population (nerfs tend to push unemployed neckbeards to get jobs cuz eq sucks now.)

[Lhancelot]

Baler is right there is no supply and demand in EQ. I got my masters in Eqonomics and one of the topics we covered was behavioral economics and price theory in virtual worlds. We only spent a few classes talking about p99 in particular but essentially Rogean et al act very similar to the federal reserve in manipulating the platinum supply. Sometimes they do it directly via bans to accounts with lots of platinum or items(under the guise of RMT enforcement) and then other times they use a different approach and tamper with the velocity of platinum (nerfing seafuries to "bring in line with classic drop tables.") p99 is actually a secret branch of the federal reserve, and if you look closely at patch dates and nerft dates you'll see that it's all an attempt to achieve target employment rates in the general population (nerfs tend to push unemployed neckbeards to get jobs cuz eq sucks now.)

I feared an actual expert on MMO economics would find this thread and discount the majority and prove Baler right regarding supply and demand.

When the technical facets of P99 economics is laid bare and naked before us, even explaining behind the scenes market manipulation involving the staff I personally feel this debate is dusted and cased in ice.

Well done Qaos. I just hate that you had to provide us with real facts that back up Baler's poorly debated side of things. Before you jumped in, we had him cornered and ball-gagged. afraid to even venture back into these parts.

With this kind of support, Baler may be enboldened enough to crawl back into the discussion he started.

[Lemonhead]

"Supply and demand" isn't an overarching type of economy like socialism. It is a complex concept in economics and has many concepts contained within. So saying P99 is or isn't "supply and demand" is just way too simplified, and needs elaboration.

[HippoNipple]

The saddest part of this thread isn't that OP thinks seafurys not dropping enough gems is ruining his trade prices, it is that Baler isn't even trying to troll.

[Pokesan]

The saddest part of this thread isn't that OP thinks seafurys not dropping enough gems is ruining his trade prices, it is that Baler isn't even trying to troll.

intent doesn't matter, he made the thread funny w/angry replies

[Lojik]

The saddest part of this thread isn't that OP thinks seafurys not dropping enough gems is ruining his trade prices, it is that Baler isn't even trying to troll.

marginal product of anger goes up as labor hours go down, thus baler is merely attempting to efficiently capture as much of the mads as possible

[HippoNipple]

marginal product of anger goes up as labor hours go down, thus baler is merely attempting to efficiently capture as much of the mads as possible

If he was pretending to be stupid it would be a good troll. When people are getting mad because he actually is stupid it is just sad.

[Lhancelot]

intent doesn't matter, he made the thread funny w/angry replies

True. I wish he would post more often, his "angry" replies are my favorite!

I guess he kind of Forrest Gumped his way into making the thread even better. "P99 isn't supply and demand." Pure forum gold, a real gem created by Baler. :p

[NachtMystium]

Supply & Demand:
Baler posts in thread
Fellatios are nowhere to be seen(needs demand)
Pokesan enters thread, supplies the fellatio to Baler, creating surplus
Baler demands more, Pokesan naturally obliges

Economy 101

[Lhancelot]

Supply & Demand:
Baler posts in thread
Fellatios are nowhere to be seen(needs demand)
Pokesan enters thread, supplies the fellatio to Baler, creating surplus
Baler demands more, Pokesan naturally obliges

Economy 101

Pokesan has a good heart he can't help it. Not so much fellatio, as it is giving a helping hand when it's needed. Whether it's deserved or not is another story. ;)

[Pokesan]

Supply & Demand:
Baler posts in thread
Fellatios are nowhere to be seen(needs demand)
Pokesan enters thread, supplies the fellatio to Baler, creating surplus
Baler demands more, Pokesan naturally obliges

Economy 101

im confused about the surplus. is baler multiple-endowed or something?

anyway PM me if you want to chat this way, it doesn't belong in server chat.

[NachtMystium]

im confused about the surplus. is baler multiple-endowed or something?

anyway PM me if you want to chat this way, it doesn't belong in server chat.

this thread should've been moved to RnF a long time ago, I'm just calling it like I see it

[ErlickBachman]

this thread should've been moved to RnF a long time ago, I'm just calling it like I see it

No kidding.

Truthfully, I don't think the Seafuries should've been nerfed. I honestly don't know why it did happen. I can only speculate that it was possibly because of some sort of link to RMT on the server.

[Lojik]

No kidding.

Truthfully, I don't think the Seafuries should've been nerfed. I honestly don't know why it did happen. I can only speculate that it was possibly because of some sort of link to RMT on the server.

Or that it probably reduced the number of petitions that unpaid guides have to deal with by 50%.

[ErlickBachman]

Or that it probably reduced the number of petitions that unpaid guides have to deal with by 50%.

That's a very good possibility.

[mattydef]

You know that's not the case when there is most likely more cloaks of flame on the server than active players, and there still worth 70k

P99 economy is special.

This comment made me chuckle. I believe there are 5 mobs that can drop a cof. So if all 5 100% dropped one every week since this server has been out (even though 3 of the mobs are kunark) there would be about 2,000 cloaks on the server. So a more realistic estimate would be about 500 cloaks on the server, and that's including a few double drops in there for the hell of it.

[Transylvania]

No kidding.

Truthfully, I don't think the Seafuries should've been nerfed. I honestly don't know why it did happen. I can only speculate that it was possibly because of some sort of link to RMT on the server.

When you are RMTing expensive items the last thing you want is easily attainable platinum for every Joe on the server.

[Lhancelot]

im confused about the surplus. is baler multiple-endowed or something?

rofl. That brings to mind some interesting imagery.

[dbouya]

Don't parts of quantum mechanics like the zero energy disprove the heat death of the universe? or at least raise questions of doubt about it?

[fadetree]

Quantum mechanics implies a base level of entropy that can not be raised, as well as leaving open the possibility of fluctuations that lower local entropy enough such that the state of no thermodynamic free energy is violated.

The universe is not supply and demand, after all. Duh.

[Lhancelot]

Quantum mechanics implies a base level of entropy that can not be raised, as well as leaving open the possibility of fluctuations that lower local entropy enough such that the state of no thermodynamic free energy is violated.

The universe is not supply and demand, after all. Duh.

Finally a explanation that makes some sense, thank you Fade-tree!

[Dreenk317]

OP never mentioned supply and demand, that discussion began with Baler. We still waiting for his explanation of how p99 "is not supply and demand."

In a true supply and demand economy, as the supply of something increases, the demand for it would go down, so the price would go down. That HAS happened over the years, looking at fungi tunics in particular, they used to sell for 100k+. But let's take the Tstaff for example. Everyday there are more Tstaffs on the server, yet the price has nearly doubled over the last year. White dragon scales, 6 months ago I know of someone that sold one for 600k, then a few month after that I saw one listed for 250k, just the other week another friend sold one for 400k.

When you look at these three things separately, it's hard to see it as a pure supply and demand system, when the supply for some items simply doesn't reflect in the prices some people are paying.

Supply and demand factors in, sure. But more than that is the factor of what people think it's worth, regardless of the demand or its supply.

[Lojik]

In a true supply and demand economy, as the supply of something increases, the demand for it would go down, so the price would go down. That HAS happened over the years, looking at fungi tunics in particular, they used to sell for 100k+. But let's take the Tstaff for example. Everyday there are more Tstaffs on the server, yet the price has nearly doubled over the last year. White dragon scales, 6 months ago I know of someone that sold one for 600k, then a few month after that I saw one listed for 250k, just the other week another friend sold one for 400k.

When you look at these three things separately, it's hard to see it as a pure supply and demand system, when the supply for some items simply doesn't reflect in the prices some people are paying.

Supply and demand factors in, sure. But more than that is the factor of what people think it's worth, regardless of the demand or its supply.

Perhaps there are other forces at work here! I suspect this is likely due to horizontal price fixing, likely sanctioned by p99's corporotocracy globalists. It could also be due to extremely outdated and excessively strict IP laws regarding pull strategies and guild management.

[Menden]

I have no idea why they got nerfed, but I'm glad they did. The amount of petitions for that stupid island was insane. I'd be fine with them being brought back, if PVP was enabled. ;)

[ErlickBachman]

When you are RMTing expensive items the last thing you want is easily attainable platinum for every Joe on the server.

I guess. From my experience, the Seafuries would be farmed by folks who farmed them regularly. Grant it, you would get new people who would come out there trying to get in on the loots, but most wouldn't stay. Some years back, I would park either my druid or necro out there for weeks at a time and I would /who all oot on other characters to see how many were out there. If the ping came back with 5 or less lvl 45+ chars, I'd switch over and farm for a bit. I even had times when Seafury island would be completely to myself. Also back then, people weren't so big on going /anon in OOT. When the zone population started to lean more towards /anon versus non-/anon, I knew it was well time for me to leave that farming altogether. So I started dungeon crawling Seb, KC, and HS. And that move paid off better than if I would've stayed trying to farm those Seafuries.

[ErlickBachman]

I have no idea why they got nerfed, but I'm glad they did. The amount of petitions for that stupid island was insane. I'd be fine with them being brought back, if PVP was enabled. ;)

Well PVP on the island probably wouldn't work. All players camping seafuries would drag those poor one-eyed bastards out into the ocean or over to the AC island and kill them there.

[Evia]

Well PVP on the island probably wouldn't work. All players camping seafuries would drag those poor one-eyed bastards out into the ocean or over to the AC island and kill them there.

Make the entire zone PvP. Problem solved.

[Freakish]

I have no idea why they got nerfed, but I'm glad they did. The amount of petitions for that stupid island was insane. I'd be fine with them being brought back, if PVP was enabled. ;)

I would be a horrible GM. My solution would be to DT both parties and summon them to vp hoshkar pad until they worked out a solution between themselves.

[ErlickBachman]

Make the entire zone PvP. Problem solved.

Yeah, so that way people who are taking the boat can just slaughter each other... That in itself would create even more petitions for the Server Staff.

[Mead]

In a true supply and demand economy, as the supply of something increases, the demand for it would go down, so the price would go down. That HAS happened over the years, looking at fungi tunics in particular, they used to sell for 100k+. But let's take the Tstaff for example. Everyday there are more Tstaffs on the server, yet the price has nearly doubled over the last year. White dragon scales, 6 months ago I know of someone that sold one for 600k, then a few month after that I saw one listed for 250k, just the other week another friend sold one for 400k.

When you look at these three things separately, it's hard to see it as a pure supply and demand system, when the supply for some items simply doesn't reflect in the prices some people are paying.

Supply and demand factors in, sure. But more than that is the factor of what people think it's worth, regardless of the demand or its supply.

The price started going up with talks of triple attack patch. This would still be within the supply and demand theory.

[Baler]

One negative aspect of the seafury nerf is it makes information on the forums and wiki about how great their drops are invalid. So for newer players digging around trying to find a super great farm. They may get mislead.

[Menden]

I would be a horrible GM. My solution would be to DT both parties and summon them to vp hoshkar pad until they worked out a solution between themselves.

Well, I think we all got close to that many, many times. People get really upset about pixels.

[Synthlol]

In a true supply and demand economy, as the supply of something increases, the demand for it would go down, so the price would go down.

This guy is clearly an idiot.

[Lhancelot]

I have no idea why they got nerfed, but I'm glad they did. The amount of petitions for that stupid island was insane. I'd be fine with them being brought back, if PVP was enabled. ;)

This is an awesome idea!

OOT should be rendered a PVP enabled zone, and Seafuries need to drop worthy loot again! It would be so fun PKing chumps sitting half afk while on their "list" at the AC camp for Jboots.

Rofl that would be fun times.

[Lhancelot]

One negative aspect of the seafury nerf is it makes information on the forums and wiki about how great their drops are invalid. So for newer players digging around trying to find a super great farm. They may get mislead.

It is bad information to say SFs are awesome for plats now, I assume anyway. I wonder if anyone still farms them for plat and how bad the gem drop is now? Or, if it's all rumor and they still drop a great amount of gems for plats?

[HippoNipple]

They drop fungi tunics now

[loramin]

It is bad information to say SFs are awesome for plats now, I assume anyway. I wonder if anyone still farms them for plat and how bad the gem drop is now? Or, if it's all rumor and they still drop a great amount of gems for plats?

When I checked shortly after the nerf classic correction the gems were dropping in something like 1/4th - 1/5th of the amounts they used to.

Also I think the PvP idea is fun, but clearly it's not classic and so will never happen. But what could (hypothetically) happen is a new custom zone with an arena in it (it'd be un-classic to have PvP enabled anywhere else). That arena would be filled with mobs that drop good, but not too good, loot (so that it's not too popular). It might also have other inconveniences (eg. ice, pits, etc.) to discourage the whole server from showing up. To save GM sanity they might need the mobs there to do an FTE shout or something, but I could see it working ... at least in theory.

[Gozuk]

It is bad information to say SFs are awesome for plats now, I assume anyway. I wonder if anyone still farms them for plat and how bad the gem drop is now? Or, if it's all rumor and they still drop a great amount of gems for plats?

I've taken my Ranger out there several times since the change, probably out of a mix of boredom/denial. Although at level 57 my experience bar moves a bit so that's cool.

As far as the change in drop rates, while I wouldn't even begin to guess or care to do the math to figure out a percentage, I'll go ahead and say it's a massive nerf. Not even close to what it used to be. Before, the drops were so common I honestly felt robbed every time a gem didn't drop lol. They weren't playing around.

[Dreenk317]

This guy is clearly an idiot.

Yup, how does supply and demand work in your mind?

[Nisei]

I did 49-55 on my Mage after the nerf. I loved it.

[Synthlol]

Yup, how does supply and demand work in your mind?

When price falls, the quantity demanded increases.

In a true supply and demand economy, as the supply of something increases, the demand for it would go down, so the price would go down.

Making this statement means you have no idea what you're talking about. To be correct, it would need to be revised to state "as the supply of something increases, ceteris paribus, the equilibrium price decreases, so the quantity demanded goes up.".

Shifts in the supply curve directly affect price, not demand. The quantity demanded then reacts to the change in price the same way a 6 year old would intuitively expect it to.

An illustrated example with an explanation can be found here (https://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/microeconomics/supply-demand-equilibrium). It is Economics 101. The top left example at the 2 minute mark is the one you need to pay attention too.

If you need any more help than this you'll have to pay my consulting fee.

[Endymion]

Still no idea why you would take the gem drops away...for a lot of players it was a nice way to earn some plat...not get ridiculously rich but just earn some plat

[Troxx]

Still no idea why you would take the gem drops away...for a lot of players it was a nice way to earn some plat...not get ridiculously rich but just earn some plat

Aside from the fact that the drop rate was not classic (reason enough to nerf it) seafury island was pumping significant amounts of cash into the economy contributing to inflation.

I've been to the island since the nerf and it's much nicer. Few if any people there and the gem drops (cash) are still very good compared to plat potential at comparable level hunting grounds. Since it's no longer an absolute plat fest, the island isn't occupied 24/7 by level 60s hogging all the spawns.

It was a good change.

[prc018100]

I've always been frustrated with "nerfs" as they give advantage to players that utilized the benefit prior to the nerf. I camped seafuries a lot and never felt it was ridiculously overcamped before the nerf. At most, I saw 5-6 players camping various spawn locations on the island.

As for the argument that it wasn't in-line with "classic" drop rates. I haven't done any research but I find it hard to believe anyone would be able to prove that. I definitely remember tons of gem drops on live.

Also, proof of non-classic clearly doesn't matter in other instances. Take, for example, the Magician epic bottleneck (earth staff in hate). This is an economic heavy-weight as it sells for ~1M plat. This item has been changed to have a non-classic respawn rate without any reason that I've seen from the staff. In addition, from my experience, albeit anecdotal evidence, the drop rate for the staff was way higher on live. When I got my earth staff, it had actually dropped twice from Magi P'Tasi in the same hate raid. I farmed it a lot with my guild on live and continued to see it drop atleast 1-2 times a week. The rate here I hear is like 1-2 times a month at best.

Before reading this thread, I was certain the changes on Seafuries and the Mage staff drop were intended to slow the economy and reduce the # of rarer epics, but now I think you guys might be on to something with the reduction of guide work. I know the earth staff also created a burden for guides as it was highly contested

[ErlickBachman]

When I checked shortly after the nerf classic correction the gems were dropping in something like 1/4th - 1/5th of the amounts they used to.

Does anyone have any evidence that this is a "classic correction?" Because I recall Seafuries didn't get this adjustment until Luclin/Pop era. Grant it, I could be completely wrong on that timeline because I didn't really hunt Seafuries for plat in Velious era on live.

[wwoneo]

When price falls, the quantity demanded increases.



Making this statement means you have no idea what you're talking about. To be correct, it would need to be revised to state "as the supply of something increases, ceteris paribus, the equilibrium price decreases, so the quantity demanded goes up.".

Shifts in the supply curve directly affect price, not demand. The quantity demanded then reacts to the change in price the same way a 6 year old would intuitively expect it to.

An illustrated example with an explanation can be found here (https://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/microeconomics/supply-demand-equilibrium). It is Economics 101. The top left example at the 2 minute mark is the one you need to pay attention too.

If you need any more help than this you'll have to pay my consulting fee.

FYI, this guy is correct. Dreenk317, you're an idiot.

[Lhancelot]

Since it's no longer an absolute plat fest, the island isn't occupied 24/7 by level 60s hogging all the spawns. It was a good change.

I remember ages ago as my druid neared 50-51 I was told about the awesome loots dropped by the SFs, so I headed there to check it out.

I seen 2 necros that had a large swath of area totally dominated, both were red to me so I assumed they were probably 60s, and then I seen a 60 shaman who sat his big fat bear ass in a spot where he could turn and root rot SFs with his epic as soon as they popped, effectively holding down 3-5 spawn spots. Then I noticed myself, and a few other lower levels running around hoping to find a wandering SF to kill, it was just retarded.

I stayed for a long while, just thinking maybe the necros or that shaman would leave. After a few hours they never left but I did.

I decided to try it again, a few days later and lo and behold the same shaman was perched in the same spot as before. I determined some people probably lived on SF island and simply never left. I didn't even bother trying, it was't worth the time invested when so many higher lvls camped the island for loots.

Classic? I suppose. Retarded? Most definitely.

I never wasted my time going to SF island ever again.

[Ortnit]

Since the nerf to seafurys prices seem to of gone down a lot, nothing seems to be worth much anymore. Only thing that seems to of gone up is fungi for some reason?

TRIGGERED!

[Lojik]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89449

shit like this is probably why it was nerfed, petition nightmare galore

[Lhancelot]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89449

shit like this is probably why it was nerfed, petition nightmare galore

That's probably exactly why they nerfed the gems.

I always prefered not nerfing, but instead bolstering the weaker facets... Meaning, why didn't they just enable gem drops on all mobs in that level range? Then, we'd never had issues with people constantly camping SFs and only Sfs sending in hundreds of petitions.

[Polyphemous]

Project 1999 Does not have supply and demand. The sooner you understand that the sooner you'll see things for what they are.


Supply/demand isn't a system, its an observation of what exists wherever people 'do' economics.

[HowlingMad]

I have to give this thread two thumbs up.

I was thoroughly entertained.

My small two cents. The market is definitely impacted by any waves of bans from people that RMT or any other permanently bannable offenses.

T-Staffs going all over the place in price? Wouldn't that be directly dependent on how many people make monk alts?

Definitely would be an interesting study to try and catalog that data and then apply some loot to character ratios. It would take a lot of time to do but what a neat read.

I am sure the people with access to the DB (SQL? MYSQL?) on this server can obtain that information pretty easily given the right code commands. If I am wrong, sorry for my ignorance.

Again fun read. Please continue.

[Drewciferss]

ok im going to just put this out there from what i have seen on Blue since starting a couple months ago. First pricing on certain items that have been on the server for so long like fungi at this point should only be about 20K. go to EC and watch 10 different people selling them at 40-55k. thats everyday. now the other problem with the economy is that you have lvl 60's farming things that are attainable by lower lvl people that would be a better item for them and also grant them exp. The only real sollution is to farm hard plat. now Seafurries while granting exp to people in there 40's also dropped items that made them pp. which i think we can all agree in the beginning when just starting was a good thing for everyone. Hillgiants is the same way they were the second best HARD plat mob to kill to give you exp and money for the mid lvls. when you have lvl 60's killing an exp mob and money mob noone that is lower lvl can afford to buy your high priced items in ec which makes the economy suck. idk idc thats my thought on the economy..im going to keep doing what im doing. if you read this cool if your gonna troll this thats even cooler.

[HowlingMad]

ok im going to just put this out there from what i have seen on Blue since starting a couple months ago. First pricing on certain items that have been on the server for so long like fungi at this point should only be about 20K. go to EC and watch 10 different people selling them at 40-55k. thats everyday. now the other problem with the economy is that you have lvl 60's farming things that are attainable by lower lvl people that would be a better item for them and also grant them exp. The only real sollution is to farm hard plat. now Seafurries while granting exp to people in there 40's also dropped items that made them pp. which i think we can all agree in the beginning when just starting was a good thing for everyone. Hillgiants is the same way they were the second best HARD plat mob to kill to give you exp and money for the mid lvls. when you have lvl 60's killing an exp mob and money mob noone that is lower lvl can afford to buy your high priced items in ec which makes the economy suck. idk idc thats my thought on the economy..im going to keep doing what im doing. if you read this cool if your gonna troll this thats even cooler.


I think the argument to that is the prices are based at 40-50k because people are actually paying that much for the item. If people stopped paying 40k+ for item XYZ then the price would fall.

The argument could be made that people are putting a lot of effort into farming item xyz and time is money (Plat). The camper wants the highest return.

Also given the variance in knowledge of money camps based broadly on what people know/play/class capabilities. You come up with more variances to why prices are higher or lower. There are so many factors that it can lead to a nose bleed if you really want to break it down beyond numbers.

I think the important thing is the economy is healthy due to the player base. The cost of items holding value means they are still worth camping and the value of plat is still relevant. For clarification we haven't switched to certain items holding value as currency. Can I get a "20 SoJ's for that 7% Mana/Life leach neck!" reference!

For now I am going to stop my post here in case someone else wants to add information.

[Lhancelot]

ok im going to just put this out there from what i have seen on Blue since starting a couple months ago. First pricing on certain items that have been on the server for so long like fungi at this point should only be about 20K. go to EC and watch 10 different people selling them at 40-55k. thats everyday. now the other problem with the economy is that you have lvl 60's farming things that are attainable by lower lvl people that would be a better item for them and also grant them exp. The only real sollution is to farm hard plat. now Seafurries while granting exp to people in there 40's also dropped items that made them pp. which i think we can all agree in the beginning when just starting was a good thing for everyone. Hillgiants is the same way they were the second best HARD plat mob to kill to give you exp and money for the mid lvls. when you have lvl 60's killing an exp mob and money mob noone that is lower lvl can afford to buy your high priced items in ec which makes the economy suck. idk idc thats my thought on the economy..im going to keep doing what im doing. if you read this cool if your gonna troll this thats even cooler.

I for one appreciate your perspective Drewciferss! (No one trolls here, it's server chat btw.)

I too find it very frustrating when I see high lvls farming mobs for money or items when they could be farmed by players of the appropriate levels for gears they probably need more than said high levels!

One of my biggest pet peeves is seeing a lvl 20-30 or even worse, 50-60 farming EC orcs for the belts they drop while some 6-10 lvl group sits watching them farm it, leaving the group with no mobs to kill no items to farm for themselves that are the appropriate level for them.

I have farmed belts on higher lvls, but I also leave when I see a lower level wanting the orcs, in fact I will buff them and have even PL'd lowbies at the orc camps when lowbies come for XP!

How pathetic is a player that needs to farm items that literally sell for only 3-5pp per when they could be killing mobs that drop weapons for 5-20pp depending on the mobs?

You will hear "it's classic" as the excuse for this greed, but I too find it dishonorable as you for a player to practice such selfishness.

I am realistic about it though, it is classic and we are playing a game with other humans. Humans are selfish creatures.

I see you have a great attitude about it though, you know how it is. You strive forward regardless how you have your back against the wall, pushing yourself to advance even when higher levels strip the very fruits of your desire away right before your eyes!

Keep on pushing forward, you will survive and reap the benefits of your stoic efforts!

[acidosis]

First pricing on certain items that have been on the server for so long like fungi at this point should only be about 20K. go to EC and watch 10 different people selling them at 40-55k.

stopped reading after this stupidity...

[Boyblunder]

We exist in a Virtual world, slaves to people controlling the electrons.

[Robbintha Hood]

I for one appreciate your perspective Drewciferss! (No one trolls here, it's server chat btw.)

I too find it very frustrating when I see high lvls farming mobs for money or items when they could be farmed by players of the appropriate levels for gears they probably need more than said high levels!

One of my biggest pet peeves is seeing a lvl 20-30 or even worse, 50-60 farming EC orcs for the belts they drop while some 6-10 lvl group sits watching them farm it, leaving the group with no mobs to kill no items to farm for themselves that are the appropriate level for them.

I have farmed belts on higher lvls, but I also leave when I see a lower level wanting the orcs, in fact I will buff them and have even PL'd lowbies at the orc camps when lowbies come for XP!

How pathetic is a player that needs to farm items that literally sell for only 3-5pp per when they could be killing mobs that drop weapons for 5-20pp depending on the mobs?

You will hear "it's classic" as the excuse for this greed, but I too find it dishonorable as you for a player to practice such selfishness.

I am realistic about it though, it is classic and we are playing a game with other humans. Humans are selfish creatures.

I see you have a great attitude about it though, you know how it is. You strive forward regardless how you have your back against the wall, pushing yourself to advance even when higher levels strip the very fruits of your desire away right before your eyes!

Keep on pushing forward, you will survive and reap the benefits of your stoic efforts!

Yeah, even when I do deputies in RV, I'll just finish up if I'm in the middle of a run or hand it over to them as long as he/she isn't acting like a turd. It's just some relaxing platinum gained at high level.

There's no point in being a dickhead to lower levels, especially when those lower levels are just starting the game. And a quick inspect can always determine that.

[IgglooV2]

As a new player to Project 1999 blue server, with only two newbie characters, the highest of which is level 19, I find the economy to be daunting.

Yes, I played classic EQ up to PoP and know how to make a little plat here and there, but a lot of lowbie items are not for sale anywhere because veterans don't even bother to sell them, and higher end items are out of my reach.

So I have to get them myself, and it is possible, but a little frustrating when I know they surely exist in droves on the server. Joining guilds helps I suppose but I hate begging for items or asking people to help me.

[Robbintha Hood]

As a new player to Project 1999 blue server, with only two newbie characters, the highest of which is level 19, I find the economy to be daunting.

Yes, I played classic EQ up to PoP and know how to make a little plat here and there, but a lot of lowbie items are not for sale anywhere because veterans don't even bother to sell them, and higher end items are out of my reach.

So I have to get them myself, and it is possible, but a little frustrating when I know they surely exist in droves on the server. Joining guilds helps I suppose but I hate begging for items or asking people to help me.

What classes are you playing? I have a Crafted Velium Claidhmore (http://wiki.project1999.com/Crafted_Velium_Claidhmore), Sarnak Battlehammer (http://wiki.project1999.com/Sarnak_Battlehammer), and Silken Whip of Ensnaring (http://wiki.project1999.com/Silken_Whip_of_Ensnaring) rotting in my bank right now. Don't think I have any armor as of right now, but if you can use something out of that, PM me your in game name and I'll hook ya up.

[IgglooV2]

I appreciate the gesture. Alas I have a druid and cleric. :)

My point is just that it's hard to legitimately buy items starting out, few are for sale, and thus, I can see why plat farming becomes a thing as people focus on money above pretty much all else.

I'm actually doing just fine on my second character, a level 9 druid, equipment wise, because I just focused on killing stuff that got me sellable items like bone chips and HQ pelts.

But my poor level 19 cleric is still wearing rags and I can barely afford spells, because I didn't have that focus on money from the start, and actually sought to group with people and stuff.

[Tuurin]

If you're having trouble with getting the cash for spells or basic armor for your cleric (banded?) then I'd suggest hanging around where a high-level type is killing guards or other FS droppables and offer to either toss them a couple buffs to clean out their corpses or being a vendor/bank mule.

One good spot for that is Felwithe- guards there drop $ vendor items that often rot due to weight. If you offer to sell them and split the profits with the guy killing, in a fairly small amount of time you can probably bank a couple hundred plat to buy a set of banded and a couple circles of spells.

Just a suggestion- no begging required and you might make a friend or two.

[IgglooV2]

Good idea. Thanks! My approach thus far was, I was going to make a druid, and solo for plat.

[Bummey]

If you're having trouble with getting the cash for spells or basic armor for your cleric (banded?) then I'd suggest hanging around where a high-level type is killing guards or other FS droppables and offer to either toss them a couple buffs to clean out their corpses or being a vendor/bank mule.

One good spot for that is Felwithe- guards there drop $ vendor items that often rot due to weight. If you offer to sell them and split the profits with the guy killing, in a fairly small amount of time you can probably bank a couple hundred plat to buy a set of banded and a couple circles of spells.

Just a suggestion- no begging required and you might make a friend or two.

No good necro lets those 22p Two Handed Swords rot. Loot 'em all and drop them to a level 1 tunare worshipping enchanter alt with maxed charisma for highest sale price. It's easier to have a newbie do it than play the character hopping game every 16-20 kills though.