My Theory About Why Feminism is Currently Irrelevent to Millenials

[mickmoranis]

no, what makes them special is the same thing that makes any minority that seems to be successful in society... culturally they dont think the system is taking advantage of them so they just commit crime instead of working hard at being a model member of it.

[loramin]

no, what makes them special is the same thing that makes any minority that seems to be successful in society... culturally they dont think the system is taking advantage of them so they just commit crime instead of working hard at being a model member of it.

The flaw in your thinking is that you don't consider where culture comes from. If you have rich parents who can send you to college, don't you think that might have an effect on your "culture", what occupation you go into, and how successful you are at it? Similarly, if you and most people you know had single moms working multiple minimum wage jobs just to put food on the table, don't you think that might affect your "culture" (and occupation and financial success)?

Nothing comes from a void, our history affects all of us deeply.

[loramin]

I am an expert so here.

point 1 - Police are "racist" when theyre in ghettos that you would be to afraid to even drive through, so stop pretending that police are racist in the vast majority of places outside of them.

2 - society does see all race equally but when a black person dresses like a gangbanger you're supposed to also see them the same way as the black guy on the other side of the isle who is wearing cargo shorts and a super hero t shirt.

3 - if you are in contact with people who think black people feel less pain than white people, than I suggest you move cus you live in an unfixable part of missisippi and have no hope at a decent life there.

4 - you cannot predict a persons economic state unless you look at how they dress and by the numbers black people who are not poor dress poor and therefore people make assumptions about them. (so their heart rate rises)

1 and 2) You have a legitimate point here. It's hard to make the future better when the present sucks, and the present very likely will suck if the past sucked. You could just give up all hope of improving things, or you could say "that's a challenge, but not an insurmountable one".

3) That study was about ALL people, not racists Mississippians. Racism is subtly pervasive in our society

4) But you can look at equally well-dressed black and white men and correctly guess (better than 50/50 at least) that the white man is better off financially, because whites as a group are better off financially

[Patriam1066]

That's a good thing to point out to people spouting all this pseudoscience about blacks just being plain born inferior.

I think its because they don't have a rebellious attitude toward what Bill O'reilly once called the "white establishment." They don't have a Black American accent they have a Nigerian one (or just sound white). It's not looked down on nearly as much.

I'm glad we're admitting that there are variables at play in comparative success outside of skin color. You haven't identified the operative ones separating Nigerian success from African American abject failure, but you're on the right track

-Sent from my iPhone

[Lhancelot]

4) But you can look at equally well-dressed black and white men and correctly guess (better than 50/50 at least) that the white man is better off financially, because whites as a group are better off financially

That's because the well-dressed black man holds himself back by thinking he is at a disadvantageous point, according to Mick. :D

[Patriam1066]

That's because the white man drives a Honda Accord and the black man lives paycheck to paycheck leasing a Cadillac

Bling bling n1gga

[mickmoranis]

The flaw in your thinking is that you don't consider where culture comes from. If you have rich parents who can send you to college, don't you think that might have an effect on your "culture", what occupation you go into, and how successful you are at it? Similarly, if you and most people you know had single moms working multiple minimum wage jobs just to put food on the table, don't you think that might affect your "culture" (and occupation and financial success)?

Nothing comes from a void, our history affects all of us deeply.

Oh so poor white working class families don't exist?

its becoming more and more clear that you see white people as wealthy and black people as poor and actually are the racist here.

The descriptions you have of both white and black people in the last few posts are alarmingly casually racist. I suspect you know this and the reason you're a social justice warrior right now is to balance the behavior you have had in the past.

That's ok though, admitting that you're a casual racist is a huge step for a lefty. But what you need to understand is that righties don't think the same way, we don't see black people as victims or criminals, we see them as Americans. So when you tell us that we're racist or that society is racist as a collective then we get upset, because in our circles it's not true.

But what you're actually saying is that YOU are racist and you need to change, and that's cool, we agree.

I suggest taking a road trip around the country, it might change your opinion about how well off white oeople have it and how much of a victim black peoples are.

You might find out neither are true.

[JurisDictum]

You want to know what it's like be black as a white guy? Well dress like this:

9131

and this hang out with some young black men dressed similarly while your making some kind of public disturbance. Then you'll know how cops treat black kids dressed that way.

Not the real deal but should give you some idea. Make sure you also get busted with weed in some red neck state like Texas -- bring lube with you for jail. Because unlike black guys, your pretty much guaranteed to get raped if you are some skinny sub-24 year old white boy (probably by a black guy).

Apparently everyone in America thinks its funny when men get raped in jail. So it happens a lot. Maybe they don't realize its not like the big bad motherfuckers get raped...its the skinny young ones you idiots.

[Patriam1066]

Harris county (Houston) doesn't even arrest you for weed anymore

It's 2017 pussy Texas leads the nation in everything, especially masculinity

[skarlorn]

Harris county (Houston) doesn't even arrest you for weed anymore

It's 2017 pussy Texas leads the nation in everything, especially masculinity

dude your posts legit make me miss texas WTF? god bless you

[mickmoranis]

Update:

so feminism is such bullshit that we manged to turn the entire thread into a conversation of race relations in america.

So if you needed a reminder: Feminism is dead.

https://i.imgur.com/KY8GUTS.png

[AzzarTheGod]

Harris county (Houston) doesn't even arrest you for weed anymore

It's 2017 pussy Texas leads the nation in everything, especially masculinity

The rent looks cheap for good luxury n square feet in H Town.

I'm eyeing it as a move. keep in mind i have not experienced the goodness of the california living but im looking to maximize my dollars before i make the cali jump to no-dollars status.


dude your posts legit make me miss texas WTF? god bless you

*pans lens to Texas*

[hyejin]

I miss Golden Corral but the twinks are worth the trade

[mickmoranis]

Texas is great. There's no reason not to love it there. I spend as much of my time as I can in that state.

Cali is also great but it's got more problems, cost of living being the main one, also the insufferable know it all pajama boys are lurking everywhere.

[maskedmelon]

The Jews are a very interesting case, because they're different even from other "model minorities" (eg. Japanese and Korean immigrants). What makes the Jews special is, ironically, laws created by Christians. Christians weren't allowed to lend money, and Jews weren't allowed to own land, so these Christian laws all but forced Jews to go into banking, money-lending, and mercantilism. It turns out that being involved with money while everyone around you isn't is kind of good for accumulating money, and when you apply that over hundreds and hundreds of years you get their out-sized influence (which is not to say that a secret cabal of Jews runs the world, just that on average in many countries a Jew will have more money/influence than the average non-Jewish citizen).

Contrast that with people who literally owned nothing less than 200 years ago, had no such laws benefiting them (ironically, although those laws were meant to hurt the Jews, they wound up being helpful) and I think it becomes a lot clearer how one "former slave group" could be vastly more successful than another former slave group (and that's not even accounting for the wealth of other factors that separate Jews from blacks).

This is what I'm talking about ;n; You don't even read the post before responding with unrelated information associated tangentially with one of the words you find most compelling.

You saw "jews," assumed I was making a comparison between contemporary populations and responded with information on that topic. had you read the rest of the post, you would realize it lacked any serious argument. you need to slow down, stop attempting to infer motives and listen to the question. It is evident you know a lot ^^ stop being so eager to simply share what you know and you'll find it will serve you better. or continue to troll ^^

[skarlorn]

cali is just so fucking expensive.

I find lack of topography somewhat oppressive in much of Texas, particularly my homecity of H-Town. Additionally, walking around Houston mostly sucks, and I am a person who loves to walk places.

Houston's increasing diversity, affordability, warm weather, and good tax situation all make it pretty dank.

I'm eyeing a move out of Cali myself. Struggling to choose, either gonna be PDX area cause I have some siblings there... or idk.

Sometimes it's hard to be a digital marketer with no geographic business roots.

If you're a granola or "I MUST HAVE NATURE" type person, houston also sucs. But I'm coming to realize I am a deep lover of gritty Metropolis, industry, and shizzz

[mickmoranis]

This is what I'm talking about ;n; You don't even read the post before responding with unrelated information associated tangentially with one of the words you find most compelling.



What if me and loramin were the same person ^_______________-

[mickmoranis]

cali is just so fucking expensive.

I find lack of topography somewhat oppressive in much of Texas, particularly my homecity of H-Town. Additionally, walking around Houston mostly sucks, and I am a person who loves to walk places.

Houston's increasing diversity, affordability, warm weather, and good tax situation all make it pretty dank.

I'm eyeing a move out of Cali myself. Struggling to choose, either gonna be PDX area cause I have some siblings there... or idk.

Sometimes it's hard to be a digital marketer with no geographic business roots.

If you're a granola or "I MUST HAVE NATURE" type person, houston also sucs. But I'm coming to realize I am a deep lover of gritty Metropolis, industry, and shizzz

Try the south!

Avoid the north east imo

Pacific nw is also good but you will find some people who ride unicycles, wear tootoos and top hats that won't stop yelling about how conservatives are steifiling their creativity.

[maskedmelon]

What if me and loramin were the same person ^_______________-

I was afraid to make the accusation (o^^o)

[skarlorn]

yes i often struggle with the PNW culture of unicycle riding anti-capitalist grungy heroin addicts

[hyejin]

PNW is clearly the best until your fortune is secure

[maskedmelon]

PNW is clearly the best until your fortune is secure

it is a super nice area ^^

[mickmoranis]

PNW is clearly the best until your fortune is secure

in the south people that work in the service industry own their homes.

PNW is more a retirement place than a build your fortune IMO

[JurisDictum]

Is it fair to unattractive women -- all this sex-positive feminism stuff?

Most women aren't born very attractive. I mean that in the literal sense, they aren't VERY attractive. Very attractive girls are a privileged minority.

Yet these women's right to their sex appeal to advance themselves is defended by ALL women. Seems a bit a elitist.

Its almost as if, once apon a time feminism was for those highly intelligent girls unfairely rejected by society. Often masculine, willful, or lesbian -- these women railed against how unfair it is that they can only be successfand accepted by society as housewife and mother.

Now those women are out -- college isn't about them anymore. In with the spoiled brats with access to their parent's credit card. A lot of cheer leading feminists, Soccer playing college feminists, stuck up artsy feminists. And what do they want? They want to be respected even if they are a sex worker or housewife damnit!

What do you homely girls get out of the slut walk exactly? I'm being rude -- but serious. What's going on?

You know that shit isn't about you right? It's about these rich preppy girls dressing up and pretending like their helping out girls that get raped in shit areas of some inner city. It's a god damn excuse you put on a tube top and hotpants and show your ass off. About 1/3 of them want to be tied up and spanked! But oh yes, this is all about helping all women out.

Maybe you guys need to clear house a bit and you wont sound like the alpha beta capa feminist house or whatever the fuck -- I never understood what the lettering was all about and never asked.

I promise you -- hot women have all the support they need. They don't need you. Their just that selfish -- to ask their fucking underprivileged ugly friends for help like that. Women that don't have guys throwing money at them for their sex appeal could use you a lot more. They would be a more faithful recruitment base.

[AzzarTheGod]

PNW is clearly the best until your fortune is secure

*squeezes Super 8 trigger on whale*

[Lulz~Sect]

Is it fair to unattractive women -- all this sex-positive feminism stuff?

Most women aren't born very attractive. I mean that in the literal sense, they aren't VERY attractive. Very attractive girls are a privileged minority.

Yet these women's right to their sex appeal to advance themselves is defended by ALL women. Seems a bit a elitist.

Its almost as if, once apon a time feminism was for those highly intelligent girls unfairely rejected by society. Often masculine, willful, or lesbian -- these women railed against how unfair it is that they can only be successfand accepted by society as housewife and mother.

Now those women are out -- college isn't about them anymore. In with the spoiled brats with access to their parent's credit card. A lot of cheer leading feminists, Soccer playing college feminists, stuck up artsy feminists. And what do they want? They want to be respected even if they are a sex worker or housewife damnit!

What do you homely girls get out of the slut walk exactly? I'm being rude -- but serious. What's going on?

You know that shit isn't about you right? It's about these rich preppy girls dressing up and pretending like their helping out girls that get raped in shit areas of some inner city. It's a god damn excuse you put on a tube top and hotpants and show your ass off. About 1/3 of them want to be tied up and spanked! But oh yes, this is all about helping all women out.

Maybe you guys need to clear house a bit and you wont sound like the alpha beta capa feminist house or whatever the fuck -- I never understood what the lettering was all about and never asked.

I promise you -- hot women have all the support they need. They don't need you. Their just that selfish -- to ask their fucking underprivileged ugly friends for help like that. Women that don't have guys throwing money at them for their sex appeal could use you a lot more. They would be a more faithful recruitment base.

https://i.imgur.com/1tlTYRu.gif

[Patriam1066]

Houston is a great place. Good food, cool bars, tons of parks in my area, affordable

Cons: traffic, walkability like Skarlorn said, equatorial heat resulting in swamp ass 9 months of the year, and flooding

If you're looking to move here I can recommend areas based on what you're looking for. Wherever you go, if you rent, don't live on the 1st floor. We've flooded 3 years in a row

The heights: gentrified as fuck but overall a cool place. 50% attractive Asians and 50% gay dudes. Ghetto interspersed with wealth but like I said, gentrified and a cool place. I'm guessing lost of y'all would like it. My liberal son lives there but he makes $200k as a CRNA. It's not cheap

Med center/rice village: I live in this area because my wife likes museums, culture, and night life, and I like parks. I can walk to a lot of places to eat and do shit in my area and parks / dog parks are within walking distance. I'm wealthy and this place is expensive (just like the heights). If y'all are urban professionals I imagine you can afford to rent in the med center and it is a cool area once you get to know it. Plus nurses are in the area so if any of you want to man up and start a family there's that

Memorial: expensive, very nice, but even though its urban it's too suburban for my taste. Most people love it since they get the city life but can fade into a subdivision-esque slice of peace away from traffic and shit

Midtown: true city life. Couldn't pay me to live in the area but Washington street is where my children and all the other successful upper 20 somethings hang out

As an aside my favorite bar is in the heights and is called eight row flint. Whiskey bar

Oh and the food all over this city is great. If you're looking for Indian or Persian cuisine and you're in the city PM me I'll send a list

[Patriam1066]

PNW is clearly the best until your fortune is secure

I'd go Colorado if I ever left Texas. I want to retire there

[skarlorn]

I grew up in the Heights before it got gentrified dawg

*locks and loads the remington as gangs blast by*

[hyejin]

I'd go Colorado if I ever left Texas. I want to retire there

Good taste. I like UT. :)

[mickmoranis]

https://i.imgur.com/rppDYGn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6FZyBqf.jpg

[fash]

The mickposting is strong in here, and people are eating it up. Makes me wonder if mick is some next level troll that is able to dial in on people's urge to counter-post.

[Jimjam]

But I'm coming to realize I am a deep lover of gritty Metropolis, industry, and shizzz

I'm getting me the new release of the Necromunda board game for Christmas. It's American industrial metropolis gangs ... IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

For the femmies, I think like half the models in the set are female!

[AzzarTheGod]

Houston is a great place. Good food, cool bars, tons of parks in my area, affordable

Cons: traffic, walkability like Skarlorn said, equatorial heat resulting in swamp ass 9 months of the year, and flooding

If you're looking to move here I can recommend areas based on what you're looking for. Wherever you go, if you rent, don't live on the 1st floor. We've flooded 3 years in a row

The heights: gentrified as fuck but overall a cool place. 50% attractive Asians and 50% gay dudes. Ghetto interspersed with wealth but like I said, gentrified and a cool place. I'm guessing lost of y'all would like it. My liberal son lives there but he makes $200k as a CRNA. It's not cheap

Med center/rice village: I live in this area because my wife likes museums, culture, and night life, and I like parks. I can walk to a lot of places to eat and do shit in my area and parks / dog parks are within walking distance. I'm wealthy and this place is expensive (just like the heights). If y'all are urban professionals I imagine you can afford to rent in the med center and it is a cool area once you get to know it. Plus nurses are in the area so if any of you want to man up and start a family there's that

Memorial: expensive, very nice, but even though its urban it's too suburban for my taste. Most people love it since they get the city life but can fade into a subdivision-esque slice of peace away from traffic and shit

Midtown: true city life. Couldn't pay me to live in the area but Washington street is where my children and all the other successful upper 20 somethings hang out

As an aside my favorite bar is in the heights and is called eight row flint. Whiskey bar

Oh and the food all over this city is great. If you're looking for Indian or Persian cuisine and you're in the city PM me I'll send a list


*examines post*

[JurisDictum]

There are two articles that caught my eye on politico front page:

Axis of harassment: Hollywood, Washington and the media confront their demons (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/30/hollywood-washington-media-harassment-270492?lo=ap_a1)

and

GOP places risky bet on trickle-down tax cut (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/30/republicans-trickle-down-tax-cut-196333)

One is a fake story about how because Bill'O Reilly and Roger Ales got sued by wealthy people -- Sexual Harassment is over. It was everywhere now its "an end of an era."

The other is a fake story about how the Republicans think trickle-down economics works.

When are people going to get sick of the dog and pony show? Do I have to sit here and pretend like Paul Ryan is actually trying to help poor people with his tax plan?

[Rader]

There are two articles that caught my eye on politico front page:

Axis of harassment: Hollywood, Washington and the media confront their demons (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/30/hollywood-washington-media-harassment-270492?lo=ap_a1)

and

GOP places risky bet on trickle-down tax cut (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/30/republicans-trickle-down-tax-cut-196333)

One is a fake story about how because Bill'O Reilly and Roger Ales got sued by wealthy people -- Sexual Harassment is over. It was everywhere now its "an end of an era."

The other is a fake story about how the Republicans think trickle-down economics works.

When are people going to get sick of the dog and pony show? Do I have to sit here and pretend like Paul Ryan is actually trying to help poor people with his tax plan?

Just who the F do you think is trying to help poor people? Most large cities in the US have been under Democratic leadership for half a century and the percentage of poor people in those cities has gone UP.

[JurisDictum]

Just who the F do you think is trying to help poor people? Most large cities in the US have been under Democratic leadership for half a century and the percentage of poor people in those cities has gone UP.

My argument is that Republicans and Democrats in the establishment are bought out by lobbyists -- like Ryan. So Ryan ia paying them back and pretending to be stupid enough to think this will help everyone. Meanwhile, the Democrats have to look like their fighting for someone. The only problem is the lobbyists have paid them off to not fuck with the economy -- shoot -- I guess we'll have to talk about Sexual Harassment in Hollywood that took place 25 years ago now.

The one article on the level is:

Wavering Senators Buy Trump’s Assurances on Taxes. Really. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/opinion/wavering-senators-buy-trumps-assurances-on-taxes-really.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2F opinion)

After Trump visited the Times editorial board last year seeking our endorsement, I told my older brother, Dan, how moderate Trump had sounded.
Dan said he was amazed at how gullible I was after four decades in journalism. “That’s just the Trump that he wants the Times editorial board to believe exists,” he said.

We need to stop force feeding people this habit of gullibility. "Ryan is paying back soso lobbyist" (we should know them by name) -- that's the story we want to read.

[Amyas]

Because movements/groups get hijacked by nutjob extremists.

[mickmoranis]

My argument is that Republicans and Democrats in the establishment are bought out by lobbyists -- like Ryan. So Ryan ia paying them back and pretending to be stupid enough to think this will help everyone. Meanwhile, the Democrats have to look like their fighting for someone. The only problem is the lobbyists have paid them off to not fuck with the economy -- shoot -- I guess we'll have to talk about Sexual Harassment in Hollywood that took place 25 years ago now.

The one article on the level is:

Wavering Senators Buy Trump’s Assurances on Taxes. Really. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/opinion/wavering-senators-buy-trumps-assurances-on-taxes-really.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2F opinion)



We need to stop force feeding people this habit of gullibility. "Ryan is paying back soso lobbyist" (we should know them by name) -- that's the story we want to read.

I always wondered if the feminism crap was going to lose the Democrats the election in 2020 but the fact that it redpilled JD proves it.

[JurisDictum]

Because movements/groups get hijacked by nutjob extremists.

Feminism has not been hijacked by extremists. Feminism has been hijacked by preppy girls that want to tell their life story in a magazine and get a round applause for it.

Extreme feminists barely exist -- but are referenced by real feminist so they can talk about how not-extreme they are. It's all just self-indulgent nonsense.

Feminism is a sorority system where the rich girls get the nicer houses.

[Pokesan]

My argument is that Republicans and Democrats in the establishment are bought out by lobbyists -- like Ryan. So Ryan ia paying them back and pretending to be stupid enough to think this will help everyone. Meanwhile, the Democrats have to look like their fighting for someone. The only problem is the lobbyists have paid them off to not fuck with the economy -- shoot -- I guess we'll have to talk about Sexual Harassment in Hollywood that took place 25 years ago now.

The one article on the level is:

Wavering Senators Buy Trump’s Assurances on Taxes. Really. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/opinion/wavering-senators-buy-trumps-assurances-on-taxes-really.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2F opinion)



We need to stop force feeding people this habit of gullibility. "Ryan is paying back soso lobbyist" (we should know them by name) -- that's the story we want to read.

deficit hawk rhetoric will be back in style AFTER the tax plan passes. gee whiz guys we don't have the revenue to afford anything, blame the black feller.

[maskedmelon]

Feminism has not been hijacked by extremists. Feminism has been hijacked by preppy girls that want to tell their life story in a magazine and get a round applause for it.

Extreme feminists barely exist -- but are referenced by real feminist so they can talk about how not-extreme they are. It's all just self-indulgent nonsense.

Feminism is a sorority system where the rich girls get the nicer houses.

i don't think feminism has been hijacked by anyone. it's "progressed." that's what socially progressive movements do. once we have bridged the chasm of inequality, we must imagine new obstacles to battle anew because there is no destination, only progress. there must always be more progress.

[maskedmelon]

also, it seems to me that the tax plan benefits the poor and rich at the expense of the middle class. eliminating the home mortgage deduction eliminates one of the most effective means of building wealth. but hey, people only gotta pay 12%
on income up to 78k, so they can spend more at wal*mart.

[JurisDictum]

also, it seems to me that the tax plan benefits the poor and rich at the expense of the middle class. eliminating the home mortgage deduction eliminates one of the most effective means of building wealth. but hey, people only gotta pay 12%
on income up to 78k, so they can spend more at wal*mart.

That's true. I guess My line between poor and middle class tends to be more poor/middle and upper middle class in my head these days. How are you Republican types OK with that BTW? It's a big deal for anyone that ever can slowly pay off a house.

[maskedmelon]

That's true. I guess My line between poor and middle class tends to be more poor/middle and upper middle class in my head these days. How are you Republican types OK with that BTW? It's a big deal for anyone that ever can slowly pay off a house.

im not a republican and it does not please me. we don't need subsidies for the poor anymore than we need for the wealthy. im not concerned with my ability to
compete, but the long term implications of wealth balloons at the top are troubling. most people can't compete and while i do not believe anyone is entitled to anything, it is bad policy for a society with any sort of long term aspirations to promote poverty either by making staying in it more easily managed or by pushing people down into it.

highly competent individuals will always outperform less competent ones and an unrestricted environment the most competent individuals (those operating at 2 or more standard deviations above the mean) will win all available resources. That is a problem.

On top of it, while their children will have more resources contributing to their chance at success, there is no guarantee that they will be as competent/productive as their parents and they will almost certainly be less ambitious, which is why the estate tax is vitally important and republican talk of "eliminating the death tax," is idiocy. Yeah,
Some farmers may have to downsize when passing to the next generation, but maybe then we'd spend less laying them to destroy crops. The lifetime exemption covers ordinary people. The tax itself needs to be much higher though.

[Rader]

That's true. I guess My line between poor and middle class tends to be more poor/middle and upper middle class in my head these days. How are you Republican types OK with that BTW? It's a big deal for anyone that ever can slowly pay off a house.

Personally I own my house and have benefited from the mortgage interest deduction. But I would rather have a simpler tax code with lower rates overall. And why are the bleeding hearts not complaining about how regressive the mortgage interest deduction is? Renters have to suck up and pay rent with no tax benefits, but own your home and get a big tax benefit? Oh yeah, that might lose your side votes, can't have that.

[JurisDictum]

Personally I own my house and have benefited from the mortgage interest deduction. But I would rather have a simpler tax code with lower rates overall. And why are the bleeding hearts not complaining about how regressive the mortgage interest deduction is? Renters have to suck up and pay rent with no tax benefits, but own your home and get a big tax benefit? Oh yeah, that might lose your side votes, can't have that.

Your going to love this: there is a popular academic opinion that it is racist because whites are way more likely to get a mortgage and pay it off. Technically -- some of that tax money is money from people that can't afford a house going to people that can (but a lot of these people get more back from the government than they pay in). But you can argue its regressive to poor. Or that it is racist because poor blacks are paying taxes and can't afford houses while this helps white people that can afford houses.

Edit: Just to give this argument its best front, it's worth pointing out blacks live in cities often. It's fucking unaffordable to buy houses in a lot of these areas. They don't live in the suburbs because they are less comfortable with the culture there and have less connections etc. So even if you make OK money -- no way you gonna get a house bro. You got to the man these days to buy a house in a big city.

Meanwhile Whitey McRichardson and his white-acting wife buying a $2,000,000 Condo get the deduction because its their first home / primary residence.

[Pokesan]

Personally I own my house and have benefited from the mortgage interest deduction. But I would rather have a simpler tax code with lower rates overall. And why are the bleeding hearts not complaining about how regressive the mortgage interest deduction is? Renters have to suck up and pay rent with no tax benefits, but own your home and get a big tax benefit? Oh yeah, that might lose your side votes, can't have that.

kinda silly to talk about sides given the republicans can pass it without any democrat help.

remember this in april.

[JurisDictum]

I just want to add -- this is the problem with Race getting in the way of conversations about class. Why don't we just talk about how to help all people get their first house in a way that is fair to everyone? Instead -- got to talk about whites getting the edge on tax cuts. They are always going to get the edge on tax cuts -- "whites" (which I claim is getting to be more cultural than ethnic with my generation) will almost certainly always have more money because they started with more. Therefore, they get disproportionate benefit with any kind of tax break.

We can't let stupid talking point factoids get in the way of pushing for the one issue we ALL care about: Economic Inequality.

[Patriam1066]

I grew up in the Heights before it got gentrified dawg

*locks and loads the remington as gangs blast by*

Haha

Honestly I prefer that part to the hipsters who've moved in. You ever go to Lee's Chicken and Donuts? I get the 4 piece sometimes on cheat days

[Patriam1066]

I just want to add -- this is the problem with Race getting in the way of conversations about class. Why don't we just talk about how to help all people get their first house in a way that is fair to everyone? Instead -- got to talk about whites getting the edge on tax cuts. They are always going to get the edge on tax cuts -- "whites" (which I claim is getting to be more cultural than ethnic with my generation) will almost certainly always have more money because they started with more. Therefore, they get disproportionate benefit with any kind of tax break.

We can't let stupid talking point factoids get in the way of pushing for the one issue we ALL care about: Economic Inequality.

Zoning laws in blue cities and states raise the price of housing. See: san Francisco

Conversely, having no zoning creates dystopian nightmares like Houston's piss poor infrastructure

Give and take buddy, there's not really a solution to these complex problems

[mickmoranis]

https://youtu.be/mXntoTverSg

this video gets better and better and better as it goes on fyi

[Jimjam]

I'm just curious, for those who have worked in management positions, what are your experiences of males vs females in terms of them asking for raises?

[AzzarTheGod]

kinda silly to talk about sides given the republicans can pass it without any democrat help.

remember this in april.

almost missed this 1

hella dunks

[AzzarTheGod]

Zoning laws in blue cities and states raise the price of housing. See: san Francisco

Conversely, having no zoning creates dystopian nightmares like Houston's piss poor infrastructure

Give and take buddy, there's not really a solution to these complex problems


woke

[Lhancelot]

Give and take buddy, there's not really a solution to these complex problems

There are always solutions to every problem it's just a matter of having the ambition, will and money in many cases to do what it takes to solve the problem.

[Jimjam]

I'm just curious, for those who have worked in management positions, what are your experiences of males vs females in terms of them asking for raises?

I didn't want to relay my own experience without others having a chance to share theirs first, but I never had a female employee ask me for a raise, whereas this was a pretty frequent thing among the guys that worked under me.

Men's magazines (from my stunted experience) occasionally run articles advising how to get a rise or promotion. As a guilty pleasure I will read ladies magazines (you know, if a friend or relative has one, if I'm in a waiting room at the surgery, or whatever). Those ladies magazines always seem to be about 'how to blow your man's mind in bed', but rarely address real women's issues, such as the paygap, and when they do, they don't go into the most obvious solution (ask employer for more money please).

[Rader]

I didn't want to relay my own experience without others having a chance to share theirs first, but I never had a female employee ask me for a raise, whereas this was a pretty frequent thing among the guys that worked under me.

Men's magazines (from my stunted experience) occasionally run articles advising how to get a rise or promotion. As a guilty pleasure I will read ladies magazines (you know, if a friend or relative has one, if I'm in a waiting room at the surgery, or whatever). Those ladies magazines always seem to be about 'how to blow your man's mind in bed', but rarely address real women's issues, such as the paygap, and when they do, they don't go into the most obvious solution (ask employer for more money please).

Number one reason for the gender gap in pay-men desperately need money to attract women and get laid. Women actually may want to tone down their earnings, making too much money is not feminine and could make it harder to attract a man.

[JurisDictum]

Any woman that is naturally attractive is encouraged to focus on that before graduating highschool -- rather than developing skills. If your a hot blond 16 year old girl -- chances are you aren't going to be serious about your school work. A 16 year old boy is about x20 more likely not to have the same kind of temptation to go out partying and getting attention from the opposite sex every night.

So this puts a dent in a lot of STEM professions for women. Science is harder -- it's for people that try harder than Humanities students. There are exceptions (I think I was one) -- but most Humanity majors don't work nearly as hard as Science majors -- and we all know it. Women also don't want to look like "Computer Nerds" when their girls -- not sexy

[loramin]

Just wanna point out that the Jews were slaves too. They went straight from slavery to wandering a desert for 40 years before pulling up their bootstraps and reclaiming their homeland. 600 years later they slew god. They were second class citizens beneath a pagan empire, but outmaneuvered their oppressors to WIN. all it took was a little effort, a fair amount of cunning and a whole lotta DESIRE.

what's your excuse?

#hardworkpays
#nomoreexcuses
#i<3katyperry

Your argument certainly seems to be "the jews were oppressed, but with some cunning, effort and desire they worked their way into not being opressed". You can claim the post "lacked any serious argument", but I think that's what most reasonable people would take away from it.

It also seems to me I read your post, understood it, and responded by explaining the Jewish history was far more complex then you made it out to be, and in fact the reason for their successful escape from oppression had nothing to do with their cunning or will, and everything to do with the historical accident of Christian law:

The Jews are a very interesting case, because they're different even from other "model minorities" (eg. Japanese and Korean immigrants). What makes the Jews special is, ironically, laws created by Christians. Christians weren't allowed to lend money, and Jews weren't allowed to own land, so these Christian laws all but forced Jews to go into banking, money-lending, and mercantilism. It turns out that being involved with money while everyone around you isn't is kind of good for accumulating money, and when you apply that over hundreds and hundreds of years you get their out-sized influence (which is not to say that a secret cabal of Jews runs the world, just that on average in many countries a Jew will have more money/influence than the average non-Jewish citizen).

Contrast that with people who literally owned nothing less than 200 years ago, had no such laws benefiting them (ironically, although those laws were meant to hurt the Jews, they wound up being helpful) and I think it becomes a lot clearer how one "former slave group" could be vastly more successful than another former slave group (and that's not even accounting for the wealth of other factors that separate Jews from blacks).

To which you attack me with:

This is what I'm talking about ;n; You don't even read the post before responding with unrelated information associated tangentially with one of the words you find most compelling.

You saw "jews," assumed I was making a comparison between contemporary populations and responded with information on that topic. had you read the rest of the post, you would realize it lacked any serious argument. you need to slow down, stop attempting to infer motives and listen to the question. It is evident you know a lot ^^ stop being so eager to simply share what you know and you'll find it will serve you better. or continue to troll ^^

So we're having a whole conversation about race and disparities, but because your mentioning of the Jews' involvement in the passion of Christ was flippant ("slew God"), and because you threw a hashtag Katy Perry joke at the end I should just ignore the argument in everything else you wrote, which pretty clearly was that the Jews pulled themselves up by their bootstrap, and what ... respond to the Katy Perry hashtag? And because I didn't I'm a troll?

I'm done doing this with you, you're almost as bad as Mick. The posts above speak for themselves: I'll let everyone else decide whether I'm some troll who just spouts out unrelated information or whether I was trying to have an honest discussion and making arguments with supporting information.

[Rader]

Your argument certainly seems to be "the jews were oppressed, but they wanted to not be oppressed, so with some cunning, effort and desire they worked their way into not being pressed" (even though you later claim the post "lacked any serious argument").

It seems to me I read your post, understood it, and responded by explaining the Jewish history was far more complex then you made it out to be, and in fact the reason for their successful escape from oppression had nothing to do with their cunning or will, and everything to do with the historical accident of Christian law:



To which you attack me with:



So because your mentioning of the Jews' involvement in the passion of Christ was flippant ("slew God"), and because you threw a hashtag Katy Perry joke at the end I should ignore everything else you wrote, which pretty clearly does make an argument that the Jews pulled themselves up by their bootstrap?

I'm done with trying to have an intelligent discussion with you, you're almost as bad as Mick. The posts above speak for themselves, and I'll let everyone else decide whether I'm some troll who just spouts out unrelated information or whether I make cogent response with relevant points.

Troll.

[hyejin]

i don't think feminism has been hijacked by anyone. it's "progressed." that's what socially progressive movements do. once we have bridged the chasm of inequality, we must imagine new obstacles to battle anew because there is no destination, only progress. there must always be more progress.

This is a problem with Marxism. It is a problem most of the socially progressive movements in USA share with each other. You build a big dumb amoeba to accomplish a political goal and it works but it develops its own economy and the people milking it pump grain into it until the most profitable Hollywood movies and craze television shows are NAMBLA propaganda. If only somebody like me were appointed to regulate these things.

Any woman that is naturally attractive is encouraged to focus on that before graduating highschool -- rather than developing skills. If your a hot blond 16 year old girl -- chances are you aren't going to be serious about your school work. A 16 year old boy is about x20 more likely not to have the same kind of temptation to go out partying and getting attention from the opposite sex every night.

So this puts a dent in a lot of STEM professions for women. Science is harder -- it's for people that try harder than Humanities students. There are exceptions (I think I was one) -- but most Humanity majors don't work nearly as hard as Science majors -- and we all know it. Women also don't want to look like "Computer Nerds" when their girls -- not sexy

Mr. Allen and I discussed this over dinner last Thursday. I told him:

women still have open to them a glorious and natural path that is way more fulfilling to most people than the chrome ladder. It's so attractive that it even pulls people across the gender line to escape their fluoridated alienation! Of course there are consequent pay gap and functional differences in socialization. It is not the ability to choose for oneself but the coercion of every individual's labor and attention into the economic machine that is the only remaining functional goal of organized feminism. We're already past the point where only the wealthy get to enjoy the luxury of traditional gender roles.

His rebuttal was an impish smirk ^^

[loramin]

I didn't want to relay my own experience without others having a chance to share theirs first, but I never had a female employee ask me for a raise, whereas this was a pretty frequent thing among the guys that worked under me.

Men's magazines (from my stunted experience) occasionally run articles advising how to get a rise or promotion. As a guilty pleasure I will read ladies magazines (you know, if a friend or relative has one, if I'm in a waiting room at the surgery, or whatever). Those ladies magazines always seem to be about 'how to blow your man's mind in bed', but rarely address real women's issues, such as the paygap, and when they do, they don't go into the most obvious solution (ask employer for more money please).

This is exactly it! Some conservatives seem to think "well disadvantaged group X just stopped being officially disadvantaged by law: they're perfectly equal now!"

Ummm ... for literally hundreds of years men were the providers, and our society/culture was built around that. For the past past 60-odd years feminists have made immense strides towards equality, but to expect something as deeply woven into our culture as "what people write about in men's/women's magazines" to change overnight is just unrealistic. And without that change, women aren't going to ask for raises as often.

Women won't truly get equal pay until they ask for it as often as men, or until the system changes so that asking for a raise isn't part of it. And given how slow social progress is vs. how quickly AI is progressing and taking over more and more parts of business, I think we'll see the latter before we see the former.

[mickmoranis]

TBH anyone outraged but this cuckery has not been raped, the constant reminder that you get about a rape from all you white people thinking you're helping just makes every day a flashback.

You don't care at all about the people you pretend to care about. You just want to be heard cus you're a little fish in a big pond.

Your selfishness is so apparent and your vapid souls just can't comprehend it.

Leave rape victims alone for gods sake, I haven't thought about that tape for 20 years now I'm reminded 10 times a fucking day. Give it a rest.

[skarlorn]

i will pay for a sex robot, especially if i get married.

[maskedmelon]

Your argument certainly seems to be "the jews were oppressed, but with some cunning, effort and desire they worked their way into not being opressed". You can claim the post "lacked any serious argument", but I think that's what most reasonable people would take away from it.

It also seems to me I read your post, understood it, and responded by explaining the Jewish history was far more complex then you made it out to be, and in fact the reason for their successful escape from oppression had nothing to do with their cunning or will, and everything to do with the historical accident of Christian law:



To which you attack me with:



So we're having a whole conversation about race and disparities, but because your mentioning of the Jews' involvement in the passion of Christ was flippant ("slew God"), and because you threw a hashtag Katy Perry joke at the end I should just ignore the argument in everything else you wrote, which pretty clearly was that the Jews pulled themselves up by their bootstrap, and what ... respond to the Katy Perry hashtag? And because I didn't I'm a troll?

I'm done doing this with you, you're almost as bad as Mick. The posts above speak for themselves: I'll let everyone else decide whether I'm some troll who just spouts out unrelated information or whether I was trying to have an honest discussion and making arguments with supporting information.

*looks down warily at Loramin's post and draws in a long breath before affixing a second frowny face to Loramin's avatar.*


*looks up and stares blankly ahead, lips pursed, eyes wide, clearly flummoxed*


*blinks*


*looks back down to Loramin's paper and angrily covers his avatar corner to corner with frowny faces.*

[loramin]

TBH anyone outraged but this cuckery has not been raped, the constant reminder that you get about a rape from all you white people thinking you're helping just makes every day a flashback.

You don't care at all about the people you pretend to care about. You just want to be heard cus you're a little fish in a big pond.

Your selfishness is so apparent and your vapid souls just can't comprehend it.

Leave rape victims alone for gods sake, I haven't thought about that tape for 20 years now I'm reminded 10 times a fucking day. Give it a rest.

It's almost like you're asking for trigger warnings on our posts Mick ... ;) Seriously though, traumatic events (rape or otherwise) affect people, and we all need to be compassionate towards each other and recognize that talking about something which doesn't bother bother us might bother other people. So I'll just say my piece and then be done with the topic.

Look, I don't like talking about rape ... I don't think anyone does. It's a very unpleasant topic. But sometimes you have to talk about unpleasant things in order for them to change. I spent two years as a rape prevention peer educator, putting on workshops that drew connections between the toys we all played with as children to the definitions of what it means to be "male" or "female" in our society to how those societal gender expectations naturally lead to rape.

Not only did I have to spend my free time giving workshops where I talked about rape, I also had to go to retreats and such where I'd spend whole weekends learning rape facts and information, hearing 911 calls from rape victims, and doing other very not fun stuff.

But I did all that because I wanted to help stop rape, and the only way to truly do that is to change people's minds. Similarly here, I genuinely believe that if you want society to grow you can't just preach to the young college students, you have to convince everyone in society, and that includes conservative-minded people in elf-sim forums.

Rape is horrible. Rape is a function of society's gender expectations (fun fact: matriarchal early societies had no record of rape, and if you graph countries and how much power women have in them it it's basically the inverse of that country's rate of rape). The only way we can solve rape, and many other "feminist"/gender-related problems, is to come to greater understanding and empathy for each other.

Sometimes bringing up the horror of the problems we face can help motivate us to tackle them ... but it can also trivialize that horror, and so again I'll do my best to make this the last time I talk about it.

[mickmoranis]

look another white male trying to tell me how I should feel about my own rape.

NEXT

[hyejin]

I think my posts have jumped the shark for the day. pokesan slapped me too good :o

Have a pleasant weekend pals!

[mickmoranis]

let me explain something:

When talking about rape culture, you are getting self gratification and are being selifsh.

You are not stopping future rapes by yelling about how wrong you think rape is.

Rapists do not care what you think at all.

Victims have to listen to you.

Keep your mouth shut about it and volunteer somewhere in private to help individuals that ask for your help.

[skarlorn]

last line of ur last post is pretty nice mick although sometimes I think a man must say "rape is bad" in order to maintain social face among the hysteric feminine crowd

[loramin]

look another white male trying to tell me how I should feel about my own rape.

NEXT

I never did nor would I ever presume to do that. This is something I feel very passionately about (not about white males, but about anyone telling any trauma victim how to feel). Please re-read my post and I think you'll find I did not do that.

let me explain something:

When talking about rape culture, you are getting self gratification and are being selifsh.

You are not stopping future rapes by yelling about how wrong you think rape is.

Rapists do not care what you think at all.

Victims have to listen to you.

Keep your mouth shut about it and volunteer somewhere in private to help individuals that ask for your help.

Look I said I'd get off the topic, but if you're going to bring it up ... you are 100% right, you don't stop future rapes by yelling about how wrong you think rape is. You stop rapes by changing society so that men aren't defined by their society as the "strong/powerful gender" and women aren't defined as the "passive/submissive gender" (and of course those aren't binary distinctions, it's a matter of degrees).

Again, on a societal level, rape correlates with women in that society having little power. Although no one is taking surveys or anything, you can be pretty sure women are raped with much greater frequency in somewhere like Afghanistan than here, because women have more power and agency in our society.

So the way you stop rape (of both men and women) is to get people to realize, and reinforce to their peer group, that it's ok for men to be passive and for women to be assertive ... which is one part of the larger gestalt of feminism, ie. the thing I waste way too much of my time arguing for in elf sim forums.

It's not easy, it's not fun, and it's far from guaranteed to be successful ... but if you really want to fight an evil like rape you have to be willing to do what it takes to win, even if it's incredibly hard and difficult.

[mickmoranis]

TIL that animals have sex with eachother so that the male animal can feel strong and powerful.

Thank god all those cows want to feel strong and powerful or I wouldnt be able to eat hamburgers!

[loramin]

TIL that animals have sex with eachother so that the male animal can feel strong and powerful.

Thank god all those cows want to feel strong and powerful or I wouldnt be able to eat hamburgers!

Really, you think all of the complexity of human behavior can be reduced to cows?

[mickmoranis]

It has been noted that behavior resembling rape in humans is observed in the animal kingdom, including ducks and geese, bottlenose dolphins,[1] and chimpanzees.[2] Indeed, in orangutans, close human relatives, copulations of this nature may account for up to half of all observed matings.

It is hypothesized that rape is homologous to similar behavior in other animals. "Human rape appears not as an aberration but as an alternative gene-promotion strategy that is most likely to be adopted by the 'losers' in the competitive, harem-building struggle. If the means of access to legitimate, consenting sex is not available, then a male may be faced with the choice between force or genetic extinction."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape

rape is a natural part of evolution, im not saying its good but its a part of life.

rape is a result of the lack of sex, not to gain power over someone.

A college student doesnt rape some passed out person because they want power over them, they just want to nut.

Its not what you say it is. You cannot stop it by social championing stopping it.

Raise yo kids right. That's all ya can do.

[JurisDictum]

This is exactly it! Some conservatives seem to think "well disadvantaged group X just stopped being officially disadvantaged by law: they're perfectly equal now!"

Ummm ... for literally hundreds of years men were the providers, and our society/culture was built around that. For the past past 60-odd years feminists have made immense strides towards equality, but to expect something as deeply woven into our culture as "what people write about in men's/women's magazines" to change overnight is just unrealistic. And without that change, women aren't going to ask for raises as often.

Women won't truly get equal pay until they ask for it as often as men, or until the system changes so that asking for a raise isn't part of it. And given how slow social progress is vs. how quickly AI is progressing and taking over more and more parts of business, I think we'll see the latter before we see the former.

This is the one thing Hillary Clinton said that I remember thinking "I like that woman."

When the BLM crew came in to talk with her and they said "they want to change hearts and minds," Clinton calmly explained to them that was stupid. You don't change hearts in minds with marches and protests. That is for changing laws. Hearts and minds respond to kindness over a long period of time. You won't hate blacks if you live next to them, make some friends with blacks, and don't get robbed hopefully by black people before the first step (it happens).

Protesting is to change laws. Social Justice Movements are being treated like god damn social clubs. They are social clubs these days! But that's highly counter productive in some sense -- because SJM also create division. It's supposed to be temporary -- to change laws.

Modern Feminism practical impact is to divide people more then bring them together -- without any concrete legal goals that can possibly make any of this worth it. Keep in mind, pro-choice isn't a feminist-only stance....yet whenever I say something like this people bring up feminists protecting abortion rights.

Whatever. That can be completely separated from feminism. Evidenced by how many pro-life feminists there are. Most of this stuff can besides the pay gap.

We are over-using the lens. That's what conservatives do. They pick a lens to see the world through -- and have a hard time taking it off and putting new ones on. But man can they rationalize how that one lens is always right. Liberals have more lenses but know them less well.

Modern feminism is a sanctuary for conservatives. But that word is only used to connotation Republicans in this country...I mean conservative in the traditional since. They want to keep what is old more than progress what is new.

[loramin]

This is the one thing Hillary Clinton said that I remember thinking "I like that woman."

When the BLM crew came in to talk with her and they said "they want to change hearts and minds," Clinton calmly explained to them that was stupid. You don't change hearts in minds with marches and protests. That is for changing laws. Hearts and minds respond to kindness over a long period of time. You won't hate blacks if you live next to them, make some friends with blacks, and don't get robbed hopefully by black people before the first step (it happens).

Protesting is to change laws. Social Justice Movements are being treated like god damn social clubs. They are social clubs these days! But that's highly counter productive in some sense -- because SJM also create division. It's supposed to be temporary -- to change laws.

Modern Feminism practical impact is to divide people more then bring them together -- without any concrete legal goals that can possibly make any of this worth it. Keep in mind, pro-choice isn't a feminist-only stance....yet whenever I say something like this people bring up feminists protecting abortion rights.

Whatever. That can be completely separated from feminism. Evidenced by how many pro-life feminists there are. Most of this stuff can besides the pay gap.

We are over-using the lens. That's what conservatives do. They pick a lens to see the world through -- and have a hard time taking it off and putting new ones on. But man can they rationalize how that one lens is always right. Liberals have more lenses but know them less well.

Modern feminism is a sanctuary for conservatives. But that word is only used to connotation Republicans in this country...I mean conservative in the traditional since. They want to keep what is old more than progress what is new.

I strongly agree with most of your post, but when you (or anyone in this forum) starts talking about "modern feminism" the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Assuming you're not involved yourself with the modern feminist movement, how do you define "modern feminism"? To put it another way, is it possible your beliefs might be based on a few crazies who are good at getting TV airtime and choose to identify as "modern feminists"?

I had an Ancient Greek Literature class (I don't know why all these conversations take me back to college, but they do). In that class we watched a short piece from the History channel, which included a "feminist historical expert" who went off about how the myths were full of phallic symbolism and a bunch of other nonsense. Afterwards our teacher explained that while most of the stuff in the video was relevant, that one lady was just some crank the History channel had found somewhere. None of the stuff she was talking about was supported by anything, and no other serious Greek scholar believed any of the ideas she espoused.

This was fine for us watching the segment in class, but it made me think: what if you're just a random person watching the History channel? You see this supposed "expert", and you certainly aren't an expert on feminist ancient Greek literature, so the only natural thing for you to do is believe it, or at least believe that's what feminist historians as a group think ... because you don't have a knowledgeable professor in your living room who can tell you that the"expert" on TV (who supposedly represents a certain group) is actually just a lone crank (who doesn't).

I'm not saying that what you wrote is wrong (again, I agree with the bulk of it), but I just really wonder if a lot of what everyone here thinks is "modern feminism" is similarly distorted.

[JurisDictum]

when you (or anyone in this forum) starts talking about "modern feminism" the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Assuming you're not involved yourself with the modern feminist movement, how do you define "modern feminism"? To put it another way, is it possible your beliefs might be based on a few crazies who are good at getting TV airtime and choose to identify as "modern feminists"?



Well to be fair to Feminism as a label -- its all people identifying as feminist. You can add a qualifier so that real wack jobs and trolls don't count -- This is what Muslims argue about ISIS (but not every radical group).

But I think its helpful to seperate 2 things labeled feminism:

1) Academic Feminism as a form of scholarship -- usually OK unless from a werid institution.

2) Your run of the mill feminist that follows media trends.

Now 1 is the intellectual basis for 2...but a lot gets lost in translation. Like basically all of it but a slogan or two.

Academic Feminism as a college subject -- important stuff (but don't oversell the B.A. in it IMO).

Media feminism and popular feminism and what most feminists do most the time...not as much. It can be useful when mobilized for a legal goal IMO. But there isn't one really strictly feminist policy. And frankly -- they got a bad rap in the media. It doesn't help the cause usually to say "feminists believe x."

Why does 2020 need to be about sexual assault and Trump? We aren't going to win that. Even if we do -- yea us, we got ourselves a fucking Clinton or some centrist that makes rich feminists happy. The media is all about girls in their pussyhats -- but wouldn't cover Occupy Wallstreet worth a shit. Except for when it was time to make fun of the bums showing up.

[Pokesan]

'e cannae be scot'sh barne, 'e got jib'ers

[loramin]

Well to be fair to Feminism as a label -- its all people identifying as feminist. You can add a qualifier so that real wack jobs and trolls don't count -- This is what Muslims argue about ISIS (but not every radical group).

But I think its helpful to seperate 2 things labeled feminism:

1) Academic Feminism as a form of scholarship -- usually OK unless from a werid institution.

2) Your run of the mill feminist that follows media trends.

Now 1 is the intellectual basis for 2...but a lot gets lost in translation. Like basically all of it but a slogan or two.

Academic Feminism as a college subject -- important stuff (but don't oversell the B.A. in it IMO).

Media feminism and popular feminism and what most feminists do most the time...not as much. It can be useful when mobilized for a legal goal IMO. But there isn't one really strictly feminist. And frankly -- they got a bad rap in the media. It doesn't help the cause usually to say "feminists believe x."

Why does 2020 need to be about sexual assault and Trump? We aren't going to win that. Even if we do -- yea us, we got ourselves a fucking Clinton or some centrist that makes rich feminists happy. The media is all about girls in their pussyhats -- but wouldn't cover Occupy Wallstreet worth a shit. Except for when it was time to make fun of the bums showing up.

Amen. Once again I agree with the almost all of your post, but just one thing: I don't see it as just academic feminism vs. media feminism, or that either is "popular" feminism.

To me at least, "real modern feminism" ("popular feminism") is in Facebook. I have one artist friend (not from college, surprisingly) who makes things like Elizabeth Warren "she persevered" t-shirts and pro-Planned Parenthood coffee mugs. I have have several friends from my college rape prevention peer education group; only a few are still active, but they all still hold ("modern") feminist values. I also have (way) more friends who would identify as feminist, but have never actually been "active in the movement".

To me the real "popular feminism" are both the boots on the ground protesting (literally or virtually) AND it's the ones who just (say) consider their senator's position on rape in the military when they're deciding who to vote for. Numerically there are far more of these people than there are either academic or media feminists, yet unless you happen to have them on your Facebook feed all you'd ever know about "modern feminism" is the media and maybe the academics.

When MLK or Malcolm X led their respective segments of their movement it was clear that they represented them. I just don't feel that the people on TV with the word "feminist" underneath their name represent the "real feminists" the same way, and so I don't think it's the best idea to lump them all into one "modern feminist" lump ... especially since many of those non-representative media feminists say some crazy ass shit (which is likely why the TV channel put them on in the first place).

[mickmoranis]

Theres two types of feminists: people who treat men and women as equals, and then people who yell at those people for not being feminists cus they yell at everyone.

The latter is far smaller a number, but it is the voice of the entire feminist movement.

[loramin]

Theres two types of feminists: people who treat men and women as equals, and then people who yell at those people for not being feminists cus they yell at everyone.

The latter is far smaller a number, but it is the voice of the entire feminist movement.

I just came from a thread where a very angry melon and I finally reached an understanding, and now I come here and find a post of your's that I 100% agree with? My head might explode, but if not today is a good day :)

[mickmoranis]

welcome to crazy town, population 3.

[maskedmelon]

i actually was pretty mad too (*^^*) i threw my phone and hurt my hand. I feel better now though ^^

[mickmoranis]

Oh man ima have to go read this exchange, what thread/ pages?

[Rader]

'e cannae be scot'sh barne, 'e got jib'ers

No one here is the fuckface whisperer, dude, what the F kind of response are you hoping for?

[Pokesan]

No one here is the fuckface whisperer, dude, what the F kind of response are you hoping for?

fash picked it up in the other thread

you're swine :)

[Lulz~Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/B5mFLKe.jpg

[AzzarTheGod]

https://i.imgur.com/B5mFLKe.jpg

I'm taking far right n second from far right

Rest can diaf

[JurisDictum]

I'm taking far right n second from far right

Rest can diaf

I would tell them all I was a big time modeling talent agent. Then I would invite them back to my place to discuss a career in modeling....and just wipe my dick out and jerk off.

[JurisDictum]

You guys ready for some good ol' American outrage? (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/robert-fulford-mattel-thinks-hijab-barbie-is-cute-and-progressive-its-not)

In a burst of bogus feminism and commercial ambition, Mattel Inc., the global doll-maker, has announced that in 2018 it will market a Barbie doll wearing a hijab. Barbie dolls rarely impinge on political and social issues but this one is so unsettling that it evokes a wide range of responses.

The following quote will tell you about who the Barbie was modeled after and the general tone of the coverage:

Mattel fashioned their hijab Barbie after a real young woman, Ibtihaj Muhammad, a New Jersey-born athlete whose Muslim parents steered her toward fencing because it would allow her to be fully covered. She joined her high-school fencing team at age 13, and became Junior Olympic Champion while at university. Among fencers she ranks No. 2 in the U.S. and No. 8 in the world. At the 2016 Olympics she won a bronze medal while becoming noticeable as the first American to compete wearing a hijab. In the midst of arguments about Muslim immigrants she became, the Guardian said, “one of the best symbols against intolerance America can ever have.”

Is it so bad to put a Hijab option on the market? They are supposed to offer Barbie examples from every damn culture these days.

IDK if the Hijab is going away guys. Women don't want to be told to wear a Hijab...but they don't want to be told not to either. So their just going to do whichever one pisses you off more.

[Pokesan]

I'm taking far right n second from far right

Rest can diaf

I'd pack her fanny

what the hell is idiot brunette in the middle doing with her face tho?

[maskedmelon]

I'd pack her fanny

what the hell is idiot brunette in the middle doing with her face tho?

the one standing in the back? look like she doing duck lips.

[rahmani]

I'll give you a better reason why millennials are indifferent to feminism, a lot of us had teachers, then professors, advisers, bosses who are females. For me, there's virtually zero thought about whether my colleagues or supervisors are females. It just isn't something I think about (until I am cursing them under my breath for unrelated reasons)

[Lhancelot]

the one standing in the back? look like she doing duck lips.

lol, one of the most annoying habits of modern women is this! A family friend who is fairly attractive does this in all her pictures it's the most retarded shit I seen in a long time.

She's very vapid and wants to get butt implants and all kinds of stuff, obviously some serious self-esteem issues going on along with her duck lip pout.

[skarlorn]

I'll give you a better reason why millennials are indifferent to feminism, a lot of us had teachers, then professors, advisers, bosses who are females. For me, there's virtually zero thought about whether my colleagues or supervisors are females. It just isn't something I think about (until I am cursing them under my breath for unrelated reasons)
This is pretty close to my thoughts on the matter.

[mickmoranis]

Times person(s) of the year are a bunch of rich white cunts with a one sentence nod to working class rape victims.

[hyejin]

I'll give you a better reason why millennials are indifferent to feminism, a lot of us had teachers, then professors, advisers, bosses who are females. For me, there's virtually zero thought about whether my colleagues or supervisors are females. It just isn't something I think about (until I am cursing them under my breath for unrelated reasons)

it's funny. I never had an influential female teacher (since grade school anyway) or mentor even, and every female supervisor I had before I joined the owner class was a sadist/proceduralist with no insight into the work being done. I do tend to exist in very much male-dominated spaces though!

[mickmoranis]

it's funny. I never had an influential female teacher (since grade school anyway) or mentor even, and every female supervisor I had before I joined the owner class was a sadist/proceduralist with no insight into the work being done. I do tend to exist in very much male-dominated spaces though!

this is an interesting point, I cant think of a teacher I had that was female beyond the awesome one I had in 9th grade and 4th and 3rd grades.

[loramin]

Heh, plus if you're talking about female progress in society, female teachers (a profession which has been "gendered" female for centuries in America) aren't exactly the best evidence of it. It'd be like saying "look there are lots of female nurses, women are equal!" ... and not considering how (relatively) few female doctors there are.

This is so wrong. I'm sick of people getting this wrong. I actually noticed that dictionaries changed the definition in the recent years. "Fem"inism. It is women's rights solely, and always was until maybe a year or two ago. Feminists started spewing this bullshit about feminism meaning equality for everyone. Equality for everyone is egalitarianism. Tranny pos.

Someone needs to re-read their history books. Since it's inception feminism has always been about equality of the genders. Egalitarianism is a more general term for the equality of all peoples, not specifically the different genders.

Men, their rights, and nothing more; women, their rights, and nothing less.
The day may be approaching when the whole world will recognize woman as the equal of man.

But you have to remember, just saying "women are equal to men" was a radical idea for the vast majority of human history. It's so easy to dismiss both what feminists in the past have done AND what feminist work still needs to be done precisely because those women fought and made great strides towards winning that equality (ie. because the feminists made this a much more feminist world, it's harder to see that it still is far from equal).

[maskedmelon]

(ie. because the feminists made this a much more feminist world, it's harder to see that it still is far from equal).

so long as we keep faith in oppression it may continue to haunt us. unfortunately for contemporary feminists, rule-of-thumb laws have been abolished, women's sufferage achieved and modesty marginalized. There is naught for them to do, but wage wars on imagined issues, sound science and ordinary thinking.

[loramin]

You are so full of shit dude. Don't tell me to read a history book. How on earth could you argue your point? Ask a linguist, or a professor of first or second wave feminism what they think of the word feminism you fucking shill.

Hope liberal arts is treating your checkbook well, loser.

I would assume English isn't your first language, if it was you would likely understand the prefix and suffix of the word FEMINISM

I was actually an English (well, Modern Literature, same diff) major ... but what you're talking about is Linguistics, not English.

Luckily however I lived with multiple linguists (and had even more in my D&D group; yes we had a character named "!xabu"). If any of them were here I promise they would tell you that words are not in fact defined by their Latin roots (prefix, suffix, or otherwise), but rather by what people think they mean. What you're referring to is commonly known as the etymological fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy).

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think it's pretty clear what (most) first- or second- wave feminists meant when they used the word, but since you didn't like Susan B. Anthony I suspect you'd just dispute any feminist scholar I could quote, so let's let Wikipedia settle the debate. Here's the very first sentence of the "feminism" article:

Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social equality of sexes.

P.S. Now just to be clear (so that I don't get accused of making an etymological fallacy myself ;) ), I understand "feminism" means different things to different people, and it legitimately means "man-hater" to some people. I'm not trying to dispute that, I'm just arguing that for most feminists, today or historically, feminism refers to the fight for gender equality.

[Patriam1066]

"Feminist scholar"

Now there's an oxymoron

[fash]

It was "rights for women" long before it became "equality for the genders" in the 80s or maybe before.

I might have already said this here, but you're too idealistic in how you represent groups or movements like feminism. Instead of paining an accurate picture of the group, you put forth only the abstract ideals they hide behind, as if you're either peddling their propaganda or falling for it.

Stalinism was all about freeing the workers from the capitalists, not the mass murders.

The Patriot Act was all about patriotism, not infringing on civil liberties and privacy. It's right there in the name!

[loramin]

It was "rights for women" long before it became "equality for the genders" in the 80s or maybe before.

I might have already said this here, but you're too idealistic in how you represent groups or movements like feminism. Instead of paining an accurate picture of the group, you put forth only the abstract ideals they hide behind, as if you're either peddling their propaganda or falling for it.

Stalinism was all about freeing the workers from the capitalists, not the mass murders.

The Patriot Act was all about patriotism, not infringing on civil liberties and privacy. It's right there in the name!

Heh, we're in agreement on Stalinism and The Patriot Act, but there's one HUGE difference between them and rights movements: top down vs. bottom up. With top-down stuff you have people in power needing a justification for getting more power. With bottom up stuff you have people without (or with far less) power trying to get equal power.

Obviously the former has (almost transparent) reasons for their justification. But rights groups have no hidden agenda to justify, they just have their actual agenda.

Women really aren't equal in our society. Women really don't want to be second-class citizens (even if they are a whole lot closer to first-class citizens than their grandmothers were). Why is it so hard to believe there's no agenda beyond that?

*preps for incoming barrage of feminist conspiracy theories*

[loramin]

This is from 2010
https://web.archive.org/web/20100216155549/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

"The term feminism can be used to describe a political, cultural or economic movement aimed at establishing equal rights and legal protection for women."

C'mon don't cherry-pick, keep going ...

The term feminism can be used to describe a political, cultural or economic movement aimed at establishing equal rights and legal protection for women. Feminism involves political, cultural and sociological theories, as well as philosophies concerned with issues of gender difference. It is also a movement that advocates gender equality for women and campaigns for women's rights and interests.

So because someone moved the equality part from sentence #3 to sentence #1 in a more recent version of the page, this makes feminism not about equality?

And again, we're only even looking at Wikipedia because the words of an actual feminist like Susan B. Anthony (who was so central to the feminist movement she got her own coin!) weren't good enough. But if you want to keep burying your head in the sand I can all but guarantee (having done no advance googling at all) that I could find several more quotes from several other famous historical feminists.

[loramin]

People like you are the reason for any hint of inequality among modern humans. By dragging these issues on and on and making them relevant, you are inevitably perpetuating inequality. You are probably one of those white guilt shills too. Grow a pair soyboy.



Susan Anthony would barf if she saw trigglypuff, or any other third wave femnazi

So, option #1: bury head in the sand, pretend everyone's equal when they're not, let the world stay the same or get worse. Option #2: fight to make people aware that the world does have problems, that there are solutions, and that if they embrace those solutions the world can in fact get better.

Call me crazy, but somehow it seems to me the people who pick option #1 are the ones more responsible for inequality.

Susan Anthony would barf if she saw trigglypuff, or any other third wave femnazi

For a very long time people have attacked rights movements by ignoring the bulk of the movement and focusing entirely on the extreme fringe elements. For instance, in the 60's lots of white people attacked the civil rights movement by ignoring MLK and the tens of thousands of protesters he represented, and instead argued "well these black panther folks are crazy, and they represent the civil rights movement: if you're against them you're with us."

All you're doing is following the same sad historical pattern which has long been used to attack, dismiss and demean rights movements.

[maskedmelon]

i listen to him and while I disagree on various points, i have learned things from the exchanges :3

[mickmoranis]

Whoever you think you are helping by "fighting" doesn't need your help, or any kind of help. You probably think affirmative action isn't racist, right? What about dumping Native Americans in trailer parks with a lifetime supply of liquor?

Eat a dick

And dude, the MLK reference. No one within the current femnazi or black lives matter regime can even hold a candle to that man. By comparing the supposed inequalities of today to the civil rights movement of the 1960s you are insulting those people. He was fighting for something entirely different. People were being lynched in the name of racism.

Who do you have now? Al Sharpton?

I'm done talking. Anyone who could possibly listen to this indoctrinated faygate obviously can't make up their own opinions.

Have a nice afternoon you "privileged" asshole

https://i.imgur.com/0Tbj7rH.png

[loramin]

You probably think affirmative action isn't racist, right?

Actually, in this very thread (or possibly the Why are most of the artists in the USA democrats?; both are rather long now and blurring in my head) I actually addressed affirmative action. Obviously it's racist. Obviously that's not a bad thing if you're using it to combat racism; no one with a brain would say targeting the untouchable caste in India for housing/educational/whatever benefits is a bad thing, because the untouchables have been screwed over in India for centuries. But of course it is "racist" to target a race.

My problem with affirmative action though isn't that it's racist, it's that it's not an ideal mechanism. Like if it worked perfectly great, let the targeted specific racist thing continue to fight overall societal racism. But affirmative action doesn't do that as well as it could: it ignores disadvantaged kids whose race has historically done well, and it privileges the most well-off members of disadvantaged minority communities (eg. it helps rich blacks and doesn't help poor whites).

As I said before, the solution isn't to eliminate the consideration of background in higher education, the solution is to target by social class. If you give preference to the poor kids, and more blacks are poor, then by definition you give preference to blacks (and specifically the ones who need it) without ever having to even know the applicant's race.

What about dumping Native Americans in trailer parks with a lifetime supply of liquor?

Honestly I'm not really up on the latest Native American issues, but I think anyone with a brain and even minimal knowledge of our reservation system knows it's completely fucked up.

No one within the current femnazi or black lives matter regime can even hold a candle to that man. By comparing the supposed inequalities of today to the civil rights movement of the 1960s you are insulting those people. He was fighting for something entirely different. People were being lynched in the name of racism.

Who do you have now? Al Sharpton?

Ok obviously things are better now than in the 60s, but look at what you're (more or or less) arguing: minorities have been systematically repressed for centuries, but because they made a few gains in the 60s they must be perfectly equal now, and since Al Sharpton (who, BTW, I completely agree is a total fuckwad) is no MLK there's no reason to think about race or have anyone advocate for racial issues anymore. Yay!

[loramin]

i listen to him and while I disagree on various points, i have learned things from the exchanges :3

https://i.imgur.com/3kFM8df.gif

[loramin]

I think people like you enjoy feeling like they are a part of something important. That you are doing something for the greater good of humanity. I understand. I think it's human nature.

We're in agreement. If people couldn't get some kind of gratification out of fighting to make the world better I think we'd all go mad and nothing would get any better.

But I have no illusions about my importance: the entirety of my agenda here (and that's if I'm wildly successful, which I doubt I've been) is just to change a few nerds' minds. Obviously that alone won't do jack.

But you can't look at it like that, you have to look at it like, if we're ever going to get to a place where we actually solve these problems, we're going to have to have the support of a wide swath of the population. History has proven as much: you can't get feminist improvements in society just from feminists, or even just from women: men have to believe things need to change too. Ditto for black issues and whites: we'll never make the races in our society equal without the support of (many) white people.

Minorities and women don't want your help, or need your help. I think you are looking at a very narrow gap of human rights in the grand scheme of humanities existence. There will always be people complaining about shit, and there has been since the creation of communal societies. When someone isn't on top they will do whatever they can to get there themselves. Race, gender, they are all scapegoats to compartmentalize and control masses of humans.

First off, they do want our help. I was specifically recruited to be a Rape Prevention Peer Educator (by an extremely feminist organization) precisely because I was male. Think about how little everyone here listens and believes me ;) Now imagine how much less you'd believe a woman (that is, if she wasn't trolled off the forum long before page 37). Now this is not to say the very feminist organization believed men were better communicators, it's just that they recognized a basic human fact, that we are all more receptive of ideas that come from people more similar to us.

And yes, it's human nature to complain, and human nature to believe that larger forces are responsible when really it's your own damn fault things are going poorly. I 100% agree. But that doesn't invalidate anything. You can believe humans like to complain, and also believe that some people have less advantages in our society than other people: the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive. The fact that some people blame society for their personal problems does NOT mean that every problem is a personal one or that there are no societal ones.

[mickmoranis]

I think people like you enjoy feeling like they are a part of something important.

https://i.imgur.com/2O8vjfv.gif

[fash]

Someone needs to re-read their history books.

Gotta agree with ya here.

White supremacy will be strengthened, not weakened, by women’s suffrage.

--Carrie Chapman Catt, founder of the League of Women Voters

The enfranchisement of women would insure immediate and durable white supremacy, honestly attained, for upon unquestioned authority it is stated that in every southern state but one there are more educated women than all the illiterate voters, white and black, native and foreign, combined.

--Belle Kearny, suffragist, first female Senator of Mississippi

Alien illiterates rule our cities today; the saloon is their palace, and the toddy stick, their scepter. The colored race multiplies like the locusts of Egypt.

--Frances Willard, feminist lecturer, founder of the National Council of Women, women's suffragist, instrumental in the passage of the 19th amendment

What will we and our daughters suffer if these degraded black men are allowed to have the rights that would make them even worse than our Saxon fathers?

--Elizabeth Cady Stanton, suffragist, social activist, abolitionist, and leading figure of the early women's rights movement, woke feminist

The white men, reinforced by the educated white women, could ‘snow under’ the negro vote in every state, and the white race would maintain its supremacy without corrupting or intimidating the negroes.

--Laura Clay, founder and first president of the Kentucky Equal Rights Association, leader of the American women's suffrage movement, powerful orator, active in the Democratic Party

Wew, these woke feminists are too edgy for me.

[loramin]

Gotta agree with ya here.











Wew, these woke feminists are too edgy for me.

Wow, people 70+ years ago (even some feminists) were racist? :eek:

Seriously though, people are a product of their time, and humanity has gotten better over time. Many historical figures had terrible flaws: Ghandi basically killed his wife (by not letting the doctors give her penicillin) and was a racist, Mother Theresa was largely a church fundraiser and not a humanitarian, MLK cheated on his wife and (at the end) was basically a communist ... you get the idea.

But still I don't think the fact that human beings are flawed disproves the relevance of rights groups.

[fash]

But still I don't think the fact that human beings are flawed disproves the relevance of rights groups.

Heh, of course. That wasn't my point. :)

But, do you think they raised legitimate points?

[AzzarTheGod]

I think people like you enjoy feeling like they are a part of something important. That you are doing something for the greater good of humanity. I understand. I think it's human nature.

Minorities and women don't want your help, or need your help. I think you are looking at a very narrow gap of human rights in the grand scheme of humanities existence. There will always be people complaining about shit, and there has been since the creation of communal societies. When someone isn't on top they will do whatever they can to get there themselves. Race, gender, they are all scapegoats to compartmentalize and control masses of humans.

Humans have become way too concerned with petty social issues instead of economic issues.

Can't wait for humans to evolve into sentient orbs that communicate through telepathy so we can get rid of this bullshit.

REGARDING GENDER
There is this thing called sex chromosomes. boys have xy, girls have xx,

inb4 gender and teh sexes is diffrentz

my VIP on so tight all i see is MTB's,

behind these all black shades,

number 9 trae,

red poster rep where u stay,


posting campaign off champagne,

can't slow down MTB fast lane,

he's off that kerosene,


toe down that cuck,

let the walls blow out,

a psychokinetic DMT nega, twist the fro n let it gro out



***MIC DROP***

[JurisDictum]

What they have found with affirmative action is people are OK with it if:

1) The minority appears disadvantaged that is getting the affirmative action.

2) They feel like they are getting enough to get by economically speaking.

If 1 or 2 goes to shit, Affirmative action basically causes racial tension. People that work and barely afford groceries get much more annoyed by a big family coming in on food stamps that a person with a good salary (generally speaking).

"You can always hire one half of the poor to kill the other half."

[hyejin]

my VIP on so tight all i see is MTB's,

behind these all black shades,

number 9 trae,

red poster rep where u stay,


posting campaign off champagne,

can't slow down MTB fast lane,

he's off that kerosene,


toe down that cuck,

let the walls blow out,

a psychokinetic DMT nega, twist the fro n let it gro out



***MIC DROP***

this one bangs

[Patriam1066]

What they have found with affirmative action is people are OK with it if:

1) The minority appears disadvantaged that is getting the affirmative action.

2) They feel like they are getting enough to get by economically speaking.

If 1 or 2 goes to shit, Affirmative action basically causes racial tension. People that work and barely afford groceries get much more annoyed by a big family coming in on food stamps that a person with a good salary (generally speaking).

"You can always hire one half of the poor to kill the other half."

Affirmative action, if employed at all, should reflect socioeconomic status and nothing else

[loramin]

But, do you think they raised legitimate points?

"White supremacy will be strengthened, not weakened, by women’s suffrage."
"The enfranchisement of women would insure immediate and durable white supremacy"

History seems to have proven both of those wrong, as I'm pretty sure white supremacy as a belief has declined since then. No legit points there.


"Alien illiterates rule our cities today; the saloon is their palace, and the toddy stick, their scepter. The colored race multiplies like the locusts of Egypt."

The context of that quote was that she had just come back from the South and was bitter that her temperance (no booze) campaign had failed, so she was blaming black people. Hard for me to have any sympathy for someone like that. She probably has a legit point about "illiterates" though. After all it's to be expected that a people only a few generations removed from slavery (when literacy was punishable by death), and who were still heavily repressed, might not have the best reading skills.


"What will we and our daughters suffer if these degraded black men are allowed to have the rights that would make them even worse than our Saxon fathers?"

Flat out racist; everyone deserves rights, even if that's somehow inconvenient for Elizabeth Cady Stanton. But you have to keep people's context in consideration before judging them, and she was from a different time so ... /shrug I'm not judging her, I just don't think she has a legit point.


"The white men, reinforced by the educated white women, could ‘snow under’ the negro vote in every state, and the white race would maintain its supremacy without corrupting or intimidating the negroes."

Yeah, white people had lots of options for disenfranchising black people (aka Jim Crow), and they continued to do so up until the civil right movement (and after too, to a lesser extent). Saying white people had ways to screw over black people during that era is plain and simple history, ie. definitely a legit point.

[JurisDictum]

This article (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/10/yoffe-sexual-harassment-college-franken-216057) describes a little bit of what I've been on about:

The movement to stop sexual harassment in the workplace will eventually move past this moment of shocking allegations against famous men, and should soon focus on the many nonfamous people in quotidian circumstances. But top news organizations are not likely to provide as much due diligence about those cases. No doubt many disputes will more resemble those on campus, in that the charges will be about ambiguous situations for which there is little evidence. This amazing moment has a chance to be truly transformative. But it could also go off track if all accusations are taken on faith, if due process is seen as an impediment rather than a requirement and an underpinning of justice, and if men and women grow wary of each other in the workplace. As Laura Kipnis, a feminist professor at Northwestern, writes in her book, Unwanted Advances, “I can think of no better way to subjugate women than to convince us that assault is around every corner.”

The author (Emily Yoffe) is focused on due process given to non-famous men...

She as an older elite woman herself can't completely see how different it is for millennial middle class and working class men. But she does much better than I expected. Most rich white feminists, expect there to be plenty of working class and middle class men playing power games with female co-workers and inferiors.

It doesn't occur to them that Millennial men simply aren't as arrogant and backward as people like Bill O'Reilly. They have seen and experienced sexism. They see sexist bosses getting away with shit... So the assumption is that's how the entire country is structured.

But the lower orders are frankly -- a lot more feminist. Especially the younger generation. We don't the luxury of smacking some girls ass and risking ruining our life. That's only something older rich guys get arrogant enough to do. And BTW -- they do this because they know it's wrong. That's what makes it exciting for them. It's not like we all need a big education in what's is and isn't appropriate behavior. They just need a kick in the balls and the rest of society can move on.

I don't know if Obama can take credit for this shift. But the author gives Obama a lot of credit (indirectly) for making the younger generation less sexist. She also claims he is partially responsible for the negative side effects of kangaroo courts in college, and rape hysteria.

[stormlord]

But when crime is disproportionately perpetrated by black people, and black criminals dress exactly the same as black people, aka as a thug, and police have been using profiling to both protect themselves and us, as the central ability for them to investigate and stop crime for the last 100 years, what do you expect to happen?

Hear me out... I know your teeth are grinding at the perceived racism above.... It's not though.

The left has this ability to be like, "well I think racism is real so cops must only operate because of institutional racism"

No, they operate the way they do around black people, because of STATISTICS, and they use those statistics to police. Then someone finds out that they do that, and they think its institutional racism.

The number of institutional racism vs regular profiling is drastically less than. its just modern libs cant tell the difference and think what they read on buzzfeed is the truth.

If you think the science behind profiling is wrong, then watch Mindhunter on netflix and you'll see its how we use it to prevent murder very often.



They are treated worse in most contries that accept them, because they are immigrants and that right off the bat in racist europe is a mark against you, and also they are entitled and create nasty crime, which gives them a bad reputation, and oh what happens? The above, the police profile them, people missinterperate that to institutional racism, they cry that its not fair, they give up trying, because, WHY try when the institution is against you!

The spiral continues. Crime goes up, riots happen, more profiling, less hope yadda yadda etc etc.



There are solutions besides demanding some sort of change in the way other people operate.. like idk, stop acting like a victim and start taking responsibility for your own actions? The black community in america suffers from this very thing. They feel like there is no point in trying, because WE tell them the system is rigged against them. Why would you try when the whole system is rigged against you?!

Then what happens when a black person works on them self? THEY EXCEL they do wonderful, they fit RIGHT into society...

WHY?

Because america is NOT a racist country. The system isn't rigged against them. They are free and equal just like anyone else. That's why.

But they're conditioned to think they are second class citizens, by even the very minority groups that are trying to help them. The minority activist groups say that they're being screwed, so agian, why try?! Not until I get what I deserve!



Exactly like I said above, by telling a group of people that they are being screwed, when they are not, you discourage them actually working towards the goal that they hope to achieve, independence. You make them dependent on other people. The black communities in america, suffered GREATLY from this (not saying they didnt from a whole bunch of fucked up shit pre civil rights movement/slavery) and they suffer from it every day today.

When you tell someone they dont have a shot, they dont try to take one.



This is a myth, myths like this create animosity between two groups that up until then were getting along. That is harmful to the end goal of equality.




We have, the civil rights movement got us there. But our generation has had such a failed educational system, that nobody today KNOWS that this happened. They now wander around reading headlines from buzzfeed and huff po and NYT and CNN and think that whatever they read in that poorly written op-ed is true.

They get mad, they fight, they create animosity, they shoot themselves in the foot.

Why? So some media corporations can make profits off advertising. Its sick.



The thing is you have people going, "look at these immigrants, they come to this country, they have no money, they work super hard doing 3 low paying job, just to make ends meet." But what theyre not telling you is theyre living in fucking CALIFORNIA and they have a hosue with like 17 fucking people in it, half of them are kids (aka dreamers) that they have to provide for and on top of that, they SEND MONEY HOME...

OF COURSE you cant get ahead when you have that many dependents lol, but then to say its the system, its institutional racism, its rigged, to say that THAT is the reason? That is just sad, and it enables their bad behavior.

If you want to get ahead in america, you have to work hard of course, but you have to work SMART as well.

Telling people that the system is rigged against them, or that there is institutional racism holding them back, or that men are going to cheat them out of their hard work, doesn't help. It enables the ability for the gap (that we solved with the civil rights movement and woman's rights movement in the 60's and 70's) to grow and grow.

You dont ahve to agree, but lor, i feel like you might be able to at least understand why the cause's on the left are not worth fighting for.

They exist because of boredom because we live in a good society that allowed for our generation to forget their history and want some drama in an otherwise working and unexciting political climate.

They exist to elect politicians and to make the corporations cash so they can dump money onto those same politicians to get rid of things like net neutrality or allow them to build a housing development.

They exist simply, because Americans are dumb.
I think racism and patriarchal abuses were real pre-civil rights movement, but lately I been questioning its severity. How much of this is people being convinced it's a problem BECAUSE THEY'RE TOLD. Or because it's a scapegoat to all their perceived problems? For example, feminism roared to life in the 20th century. Early on, woman couldn't vote for president. When this country was founded, woman couldn't even own property. They were rarely educated beyond grade school. Mom's would tell their daughters to learn homemaking and find a husband. Family farms were very common in those days, meaning people were more focused at home than at careers. This meant daughters who failed to find husbands would still work with the family farm. It was common for daughter to learn how to use a gun because the boys or father weren't always home. Numbers of marriages were high and divorce rate was relatively low compared to modern times. Free education through highschool for both genders became common early to mid 20th century. So by the time woman were educated and being independent was more possible for everyone, it's only 1+1=2 woman would want equality! So really if you're a woman before all these thigns came about, why should you care about it when it's like caring about the price of tea in China?

I'm saying racism and womans rights issues ARE real. I'm not denying that. What I'm getting at is the world in those days wasn't the same as it's now. Priorities were different because what was expected of you was different. When those things changed, it only makes sense woman's rights would become like a tidal wave.

My view changed when I started reading stories about family life in the 19th century. There were woman learning all varieties of skills. It's not like men were beating up woman all day and woman were always victims. Woman weren't just "barefoot and pregnant" either. Not if these're self-respecting people. Picking out the worst of the people is not representative or fair, but it seems common to do these days when discussing the past. I believe people do that now because this world is different and they can't understand the older world. Yes, the modern world is different BECAUSE THERE'S LESS ABUSE OR PREJUDICE, but don't let that exclude anything else that might make them different. This is the flaw in modern perspective. The revulsion to the old world is like an open sore and it prevents objective discussion.

Some people will dismiss me as racist/sexist enabling, but I think this discussion is similar to modern EQ and classic EQ arguments. Most players agree modern EQ is better, but some still prefer the older. I know racism and ignorance and sexism and bigotry existed in the past, but that's not the only thing I see in the past. It's just like modern players who ONLY see grind, corpse runs, no maps, waiting lists, meditation spellbook and other in classic EQ. They--for whatever reason--cannot see past those things. They can't see the whole system. This means they can never fully understand how the old world worked. It will just baffle and disgust them into perpetuity.

That's how I feel. We're rewriting history IMHO by only looking at the bad. It's like condemning a person on a fault rather than judging all of the positives they might have. It's might be the appropriate thing to do morally, but objectively we should be careful we don't condemn eveyr person on Earth.

[mickmoranis]

I know racism and ignorance and sexism and bigotry existed in the past, but that's not the only thing I see in the past.

most modern libtards think that everything that makes up the past was just pure lynch mob racism. Like if you say, boy id like to live in the 50's theyre like OH YOU WANT TO KILL BLACK PEOPLE?

its like jesus christ, maybe the problem is YOU not me? ya know?

I mean they actually think that by reminding everyone about columbus on columbus day (and making it a non payed holiday) is some how going to solve racisim?

Like people were racist because of columbus?

Its so sad, the left just cant let their depression not control their entire lives.

Meanwhile, if a child has a parent the left disagrees with, they think its fine to bully them, even though 24 hours eariler they were crying about how sad it was that that same kid was bullied.

yeah, sure, ill listen to the fickle mob tell me Im wrong about the state of equality in america, surrrereeee Ill listen to em :rolleyes:

[Kaight]

I mean they actually think that by reminding everyone about columbus on columbus day (and making it a non payed holiday) is some how going to solve racisim?

Like people were racist because of columbus?

...

Meanwhile, if a child has a parent the left disagrees with, they think its fine to bully them, even though 24 hours eariler they were crying about how sad it was that that same kid was bullied.

No, we don't. We, us lefty libtards, think that it's not right to be celebrating this happy myth of ~~Columbus Sailing the Ocean Blue in 1492!~~ when he exploited and enslaved indigenous people and was just all-around a piece of shit. Why not use this day to celebrate the people that were actually here first? Are you really that big of a Columbus fan that this deeply offends you? You can remain true to your conservative values while conceding that maybe celebrating an asshole isn't cool. You'd still get your "payed" day off.

We, the modern libtards, do not think it's okay to bully, even if the kid was using the n-word and the bullies were trying to get him to stop. It's especially not okay because that poor kid was indoctrinated by his racist mother, who tried to take advantage of his tears and exploit him for money.

[jakerees]

No, we don't. We, us lefty libtards, think that it's not right to be celebrating this happy myth of ~~Columbus Sailing the Ocean Blue in 1492!~~

It's a myth that Columbus sailed across the Atlantic in 1492? Cool, I learn all kinds of stuff here

Why not use this day to celebrate the people that were actually here first?

Isn't November (the whole month) Native American Heritage Month? And the purpose of this month is "a time to celebrate rich and diverse cultures, traditions, and histories and to acknowledge the important contributions of Native people."

[Kaight]

It's a myth that Columbus sailed across the Atlantic in 1492? Cool, I learn all kinds of stuff here

Isn't November (the whole month) Native American Heritage Month? And the purpose of this month is "a time to celebrate rich and diverse cultures, traditions, and histories and to acknowledge the important contributions of Native people."

Happy myth and ~~~~ are the key to that sentence. But I think you knew that.

Sure! And that's great! Doesn't make that fact that we celebrate a monster on a Monday in October untrue.

[JurisDictum]

The guy was a genocidal pirate. Who the fuck cares about disrespecting Columbus. We can acknowledge his importance in history class. I think you will find that we will do a better job of that if its not a politically charged topic.

But school should be open on his birthday. It is in Oregon anyway. I guess some like the indigenous people's day idea better. If you are angry at that -- I'm sensing a bit of white identity politics there. And nothing is more god damn stupid than feeling sorry for yourself for being white. White is still the way to go my friend. Despite all the recent nerfs.

Edit: the importance of Columbus historically -- is that he was the first one to establish sustained contact between Europe in the Americas. He is the guy that started the whole colonial era in the Americas. That's why he is more important to American history than the Vikings for example.

[jakerees]

We can acknowledge his importance in history class.

Hah, that made me think of a Seinfeld episode when Jerry and George are discussing explorers. George says his favorite is De Soto

Jerry: De Soto?
George: He found the Mississippi!
Jerry: Oh like they wouldn't have found that anyways.

[stormlord]

do you actually know anyone who doesnt?
I'm seriously thinking the sexes will segregate themselves. Why? Because a men can't be a man now without being discriminated or hated. Toxic masculinity is passive aggressive attack on males. So what does he do? He associates with other men. Two guys can get into a fist fight and still proudly slap each others back in friendship when it's over. A woman can slap a man, but if a man slaps her he gets 20 years in prison and the rest of his life is destroyed. Similarly, a woman can slap a man's butt and it's dismissed, but if a man does he's 5 years in prison and listed as a sexual predator. Granted, I'm exaggerating it, but the end result is men are getting the boot in the face. Men have no security--if they ever had any, and being under attack, they're seeking out each other instead of woman. Just to live freely. Society is to blame for stoking the flames of a witch hunt and making men into witches. My opinion.

MGTOW!

I also think non-binary genders will become common. Bisexuality will be prevalent. But people will also voluntarily kill their sex and sex drives with pills and surgeries. Asexuality. Being "fixed" might have health benefits. If the benefits are strong, society might quietly encourage people to do it.

This will no longer be a minority:
http://time.com/2889469/asexual-orientation/

[mickmoranis]

No, we don't. We, us lefty libtards, think that it's not right to be celebrating this happy myth of ~~Columbus Sailing the Ocean Blue in 1492!~~ when he exploited and enslaved indigenous people and was just all-around a piece of shit. Why not use this day to celebrate the people that were actually here first? Are you really that big of a Columbus fan that this deeply offends you? You can remain true to your conservative values while conceding that maybe celebrating an asshole isn't cool. You'd still get your "payed" day off.

We, the modern libtards, do not think it's okay to bully, even if the kid was using the n-word and the bullies were trying to get him to stop. It's especially not okay because that poor kid was indoctrinated by his racist mother, who tried to take advantage of his tears and exploit him for money.

why dont YOU use the day to celebrate them, instead of using the day to celebrate nobody and shit on anyone that doesnt agree with you and is happily trying to get on with their lives?

[maskedmelon]

perhaps we could celebrate the development of the western world in lieu of genocidal explorers and savage peoples? there is nothing inherently virtuous about perpetrating violence upon others or failing to advance one's society more than a step from the trees.

how about we celebrate electricity, plumbing or the wheel?

[hyejin]

It's certainly relevant economically to a big chunk of millenials, but the current woker-than-thou deal has jumped the shark and is phasing out. for-profit "transgression" generation engines even among the very libtarded are swinging back right in search of the current ideological pulse and the new trope is going to be appearing lockstep while subverting the tired sjw mechanics (the woman of color is the abuser in this interracial marriage, not the very masculine whiteman! And it's written by a woman of color!) Ideological correction has already made it VERY marketable to be a conservative with feminist strugglecred; this just hasn't filtered down to peasant consciousness through TV yet (or maybe it is now).

Basically the economy's booming, the tone of discourse is going to get saner for awhile, and I'm exempt from the draft. Trump is the greatest President of my lifetime.

Who was I replying to?

[Patriam1066]

Does Columbus actually offend people? The mongols killed way more than European colonization as a percentage of global population. Blame smallpox and the retrograde society in the Americas that couldn't prevent it. By the way, 100% of vaccines were made by white males. The score card reads far more net lives saved by Aryans than taken

Hope this helps,
The Last Aryan

[Patriam1066]

PS:

Could someone tell Africans to stop spreading HIV. Thanks!

[JurisDictum]

PS:

Could someone tell Africans to stop spreading HIV. Thanks!

We can start with the Pope...

[Patriam1066]

We can start with the Pope...

I don't follow the papacy as I'm not a Christian but nonetheless advocate for Protestantism due to my intense reverence for texas' superior culture and work ethic. What did the pope do regarding HIV?

[Patriam1066]

you mean contraception? Give me a break if they listened they'd practice monogamy or abstinence so you can't blame him. If they followed his advice they'd be good

But yes I agree with sex Ed, I just disagree with Africans having 6 kids per woman, contributing nothing, having zero progress, and sending refugees to invade everyone else

[JurisDictum]

Condoms are an important part of AIDs prevention -- The Catholic Church continues to tell people its wrong (ran by whites of course). This causes AIDs. And then there is even more AIDs because being a homosexual is wrong...so no education on that.

Unless you count the times the priest molests you. But I'm guessing they don't bag it up.

[Pokesan]

the incel makes a good point

[Kaino]

Minorities vote for the dnc in 90+ percentiles, and white women vote with them. Women are born tribal traitors which is why smears always are targeted to sway them specifically. Reversal of women back to property when?

[Patriam1066]

Condoms are an important part of AIDs prevention -- The Catholic Church continues to tell people its wrong (ran by whites of course). This causes AIDs. And then there is even more AIDs because being a homosexual is wrong...so no education on that.

Unless you count the times the priest molests you. But I'm guessing they don't bag it up.

I agree with this, just pointing out we might care more about the Middle East and Africa having zero progress and overpopulating the planet (guaranteeing conflict) as more important issues than whether people celebrate Columbus Day

[Kaino]

AIDS is spread by male homosexuals because on average their sexual partner count is high compared to heterosexuals and their "one-night stand" stranger fucking numbers are also unbelievably high (again in comparison to heterosexuals)

with google being available there is no excuse to be uneducated on these very easily graspable talking points that are backed by CDC statistics

i wont even elaborate on their "pozzed" and "bugchasing" communities either where the act of getting AIDS is fetishized

[maskedmelon]

We can start with the Pope...

pope's too busy encouraging Catholics to secure their withering minds with lamentations of satan's supreme intellect and beguiling charisma.

DONT TALK TO HIM OR YOULL BE LOST.

he actually said that. Basically, "don't engage well mannered reasoned discussion, because it's Satan tryin' steal you cloud!!!"


it's okay though, eventually all of Africa will be Muslim and we can diversify blame.

[loramin]

We can start with the Pope...

Say what you will about him, but Francis is the equivalent of a radical left-wing revolutionary within the Catholic church. I strongly suspect that if he could he'd bring a ton of common sense decisions, like allowing birth control, to the church. However, just trying to make the smaller changes he's made so far has caused a huge backlash (https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/oct/27/the-war-against-pope-francis).

In other words, I wouldn't blame the pope specifically, as he's actually a force for good and change. Blame the church and all the entrenched conservatives who do things like protect child pedophiles and hold back any liberalization of the church.

[Kaino]

francis is fucking terrible and the liberalization of all christian churches is only accelerating their path to irrelevancy

[Pokesan]

the pope is the antichrist

[Patriam1066]

the pope is the antichrist

Lol

[Pokesan]

Lol

hey you said you liked protestantism

*plays john deere ad*

[kb2005]

i wont even elaborate on their "pozzed" and "bugchasing" communities either where the act of getting AIDS is fetishized

I was gonna put you on blast for believing obvious nonsense, but it looks like this is a real thing. Jesus.

[mickmoranis]

I pray the draft happens and world war 3 goes big enough to need one so yall feminists can learn what equality acrtualy means.

[mickmoranis]

hopefully it is a non "fair" draft to begin with and its just men, but then shortly after im sure you women will protest to be able to receive draft letters right? and you transgenders? surely youll be fighting to get those in the mail right?

this generaiton needs to learn some lessons instead of living in your cush twitterverse

[Kaight]

hopefully it is a non "fair" draft to begin with and its just men, but then shortly after im sure you women will protest to be able to receive draft letters right? and you transgenders? surely youll be fighting to get those in the mail right?

this generaiton needs to learn some lessons instead of living in your cush twitterverse

Wait but I thought you didn’t want us in combat roles! Pick a side, man. Same with “transgenders” - now you WANT them in the military?

Oh, in the Twitterverse, like where our President resides?

[bluddyragz]

It's amazing how much of a shitstorm all these women can stir up from the confines of their kitchens.

[Kaight]

It's amazing how much of a shitstorm all these women can stir up from the confines of their kitchens.

HAHA! A JOKE ABOUT WOMEN STAYING AT HOME!! LOL GOOD ONE HAHA

[mickmoranis]

Does kaight have what it takes to be an off topic gladiator? Can this chick stand the heat of the kitchen? I doubt a woman can handle it. Prove me wrong tho please.

[bluddyragz]

HAHA! A JOKE ABOUT WOMEN STAYING AT HOME!! LOL GOOD ONE HAHA

I LOVE SARCASM AND ALL CAPS :D

[Pokesan]

Does kaight have what it takes to be an off topic gladiator? Can this chick stand the heat of the kitchen? I doubt a woman can handle it. Prove me wrong tho please.

a desperate plea for attention from a cougar with bangs. Sad!

[bluddyragz]

a desperate plea for attention from a cougar with bangs. sad!

so sad. #veryfake

[Kaight]

Does kaight have what it takes to be an off topic gladiator? Can this chick stand the heat of the kitchen? I doubt a woman can handle it. Prove me wrong tho please.

https://imgur.com/3LTwt2A.gif

[Kaight]

a desperate plea for attention from a cougar with bangs. Sad!

(It's working)

[bluddyragz]

^^^ Cersei is such a MILF

[Pokesan]

i phrased that poorly, just take it as the latest round in my blood war with mick

[Kaight]

i phrased that poorly, just take it as the latest round in my blood war with mick

Oh, I get it now. But I'm not a cougar, thank you very much. Unless Mick is like 15 or something. To which I would not be surprised at all.

[mickmoranis]

no he did in fact call you old

[Pokesan]

im disinclined to argue about it but age 32 has been implied. there's not much else to say if that's true.

[hyejin]

speech like that is just about violence

[AzzarTheGod]

no he did in fact call you old

*interlocks elbows with Mick, desperately throws bodies in front of Kaight, knocking Pokesan aside*

We'll shield you from forumquest m'lady.

[JurisDictum]

im disinclined to argue about it but age 32 has been implied. there's not much else to say if that's true.

Women look great in their 30s. I would say boys dressed like women look a little better younger (men look more feminine 18-24)... but trans girls aren't exactly just boys dressed like girls. Make up allows girls in their 30s and even 40s to stretch their youth quite a bit.

But I honestly don't know if trans benefit from the rounding of the hypes that comes with age in women.

My point is: Pokesan is going to hell. For making girls cry among other crimes. He only gets a pass if he suffers from low self esteem...but we all know that's not the case.

[Jimjam]

Women look great in their 30s. I would say boys dressed like women look a little better younger (men look more feminine 18-24)... but trans girls aren't exactly just boys dressed like girls. Make up allows girls in their 30s and even 40s to stretch their youth quite a bit.

But I honestly don't know if trans benefit from the rounding of the hypes that comes with age in women.

My point is: Pokesan is going to hell. For making girls cry among other crimes. He only gets a pass if he suffers from low self esteem...but we all know that's not the case.

People with depression often have highly volatile sense of self esteem, one moment on the edge of megalomania, the next of utter worthlessness.

[loramin]

People with depression often have highly volatile sense of self esteem, one moment on the edge of megalomania, the next of utter worthlessness.

I think that's only true for Bipolar depressives ... although they probably make up a good percentage of the overall depressed population.

Non-bipolar depressed people don't get the "fun" of the manic (ie. megalomaniacal) side. Their self-esteem just ranges between "enough to function" to "not enough to get out of bed".

[Lulz~Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/FuP4MBJ.png

😬

[skarlorn]

love thos wite girls born an bred as the dotters of mans whomstdve succeled tha teet uv Empire

[loramin]

love thos wite girls born an bred as the dotters of mans whomstdve succeled tha teet uv Empire

It sounds like you're saying children of the privileged should never speak out about injustice.

Like who cares if that girl was next in line to inherit the Heinz fortune, why does that mean she can't call Columbus a piece of shit?

[Lulz~Sect]

Where does the "MUHHHH GENOCIDE QQ" stop?

[skarlorn]

I GUESS WHAT I'M REALLY TRYING TO SAY IS THAT PROTESTING COLUMBUS AIN'T GONNA DO SHIT ABOUT CHANGING THE STATUS QUO OF AMERICAN IMPERIALISM, ROOTED IN THE IMPERIAL ANCESTRY OF FORMER EMPIRES WHICH SUPPORTED COLUMBUS AND THAT IF SHE REALLY WANTS TO HELP INSPIRE CHANGE I WOULD APPRECIATE A LITTLE BIT MORE EFFORT AND DISCOURSE THAN PUTTING ON EYELINER AND POSTING PROTESTS TO ELEMENTARY HISTORICAL CORRUPTION IN ORDER TO GET LIKES AND HEART REACTS.

[JurisDictum]

It sounds like you're saying children of the privileged should never speak out about injustice.


I definitely think children of the privileged should not derail the issue of wealth inequality with other concerns they have (because they don't have to worry about wealth inequality). This is what they have been doing weather they ever own it or not.

[Lulz~Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/5Y8zGP0.png

[loramin]

https://i.imgur.com/5Y8zGP0.png

Yeah, it makes no sense whatsoever to be anti-nationalist and apologetic about history. Like Germans today should totally go back to that whole Aryan-first belief system, and they shouldn't in any way feel apologetic about the Holocaust. Makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

[loramin]

IF SHE REALLY WANTS TO HELP INSPIRE CHANGE I WOULD APPRECIATE A LITTLE BIT MORE EFFORT AND DISCOURSE THAN PUTTING ON EYELINER AND POSTING PROTESTS TO ELEMENTARY HISTORICAL CORRUPTION IN ORDER TO GET LIKES AND HEART REACTS.

I get what you're saying, but don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. Would it be better if she did more? Sure, but that's true of anyone, and let's be honest here: none of us even know how much she has done outside that picture. The odds are she's a far more active activist than any of us.

But even if she isn't, isn't her eyeliner/hashtag/whatever you want to call it protest still better than not doing anything at all (which 99% of the kids her age are doing)? It doesn't seem to me like attacking someone for doing a little bit gets people to do more; it just scares off anyone from trying and then getting attacked for not doing enough.

I definitely think children of the privileged should not derail the issue of wealth inequality with other concerns they have (because they don't have to worry about wealth inequality). This is what they have been doing weather they ever own it or not.

I also hear what you're saying, but I don't think anyone gets to decide whose rights are more important, and I don't think rights are mutually exclusive. Making feminist progress does not mean that wealth inequality goes backwards, and it's also not like every person who is interested in feminism would just magically become poverty activists if feminism magically disappeared. Both women and the poor can be advocated for at the same time without one "derailing" the other, and history has shown as much. For instance, both African Americans and women saw huge rights gains during the civil rights movement. Neither derailed the other, and there's an argument to be made that in fact they helped each other.

Or in other words, the fact that the powers that be have traditionally tried to play different minority groups against each other (which 100% is a fact) does not inherently make them enemies of each other (and historically minority groups have found real benefits to allying with one another).

[Lulz~Sect]

I was more meme-posting vs delving into this debate.

Civilization isn't pretty. This apologize for the past shit is getting out of hand was more my point. It's contrived.

[loramin]

I was more meme-posting vs delving into this debate.

Civilization isn't pretty. This apologize for the past shit is getting out of hand was more my point. It's contrived.

Fair enough. I think we can both agree anyone apologizing for anything they haven't done (including modern Americans apologizing for the sins of their ancestors) is dumb. Hopefully we can also both agree that while we shouldn't apologize for them, we should learn from those sins.

[Lulz~Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/56apLru.gif

[skarlorn]

i mean i was making alittle joke and you cast deep aspersions loramin maybe u should loosen up a hair

[mickmoranis]

Fair enough. I think we can both agree anyone apologizing for anything they haven't done (including modern Americans apologizing for the sins of their ancestors) is dumb. Hopefully we can also both agree that while we shouldn't apologize for them, we should learn from those sins.

ill delve deep

who the hell hasnt learned that slavery is wrong, or genocide of american indians? lmao are you thinking america is some white nationalist nazi recreation of disnyeland??

get real

the only one who hasnt is the left, who thinks feminism and the womans movement didnt happen and that through hard work over decades we have finally achieved equality among sexes and different cultures in america.

kneel to the flag because of FACEBOOK videos lmao... thats why everyone on the left is upset, seriously.. patient zero is facebook. lol can you believe that? it took 1 milk toast website to shake the foundation of everything you believe?

[skarlorn]

SOME words of wisdom in mick's above post

[mickmoranis]

oh shit i forgot Muslims haven't learned any of that. Shoot, but now im a racist for saying that :confused:

[loramin]

who the hell hasnt learned that slavery is wrong, or genocide of american indians?

Politicians like Roy Moore? I mean, I guess you could say it's a question of the magnitude of appreciation, but potato potatoe; either way it's clear the guy had no appreciation for the true "wrongness" of slavery:

In response to a question from one of the only African Americans in the audience – who asked when Moore thought America was last “great” – Moore acknowledged the nation’s history of racial divisions, but said: “I think it was great at the time when families were united – even though we had slavery – they cared for one another…. Our families were strong, our country had a direction.”

[loramin]

i mean i was making alittle joke and you cast deep aspersions loramin maybe u should loosen up a hair

It's hard to tell sarcasm in text in general, and on an internet forum where people are seriously discussing a topic it's even harder. Use a /s or smiley or something :p

Then again, one could argue it's my bad for even trying to have a serious discussion on an elf sim forum, so ... I guess neither of us are blameless.

[skarlorn]

I thought the retarded style I typed was a pretty clear signal it was not meant to be taken as more than a smarmy jest.

[Lulz~Sect]

LOL TROLL’D

[mickmoranis]

Politicians like Roy Moore? I mean, I guess you could say it's a question of the magnitude of appreciation, but potato potatoe; either way it's clear the guy had no appreciation for the true "wrongness" of slavery:

Did he win? Oh no? Does he represent anyone you’ll ever have a conversation with? No? So why do you act like this is a “teachable” philosophy if it’s like .01% of the population? Maybe wake up to the world around you instead of the fantasy one the media wants you to think is reality.

[mickmoranis]

It's hard to tell sarcasm in text in general, and on an internet forum where people are seriously discussing a topic it's even harder. Use a /s or smiley or something :p

Then again, one could argue it's my bad for even trying to have a serious discussion on an elf sim forum, so ... I guess neither of us are blameless.

My best is to have a laugh the entire time you debate anything or you will be unfun to be around. This is a problem for liberals because liberals think “discussing” things is “actually doing something”

[Ahldagor]

Did he win? Oh no? Does he represent anyone you’ll ever have a conversation with? No? So why do you act like this is a “teachable” philosophy if it’s like .01% of the population? Maybe wake up to the world around you instead of the fantasy one the media wants you to think is reality.

He wasn't much of a loser. Few thousand votes is all...

[mickmoranis]

He wasn't much of a loser. Few thousand votes is all...

those votes were not for his views on slavery they were for his affiliation with the church.

Again you live in a childish fantasy world likely because you were raised primarily by television, watching things like star wars.

[loramin]

This is a problem for liberals because liberals think “discussing” things is “actually doing something”

Is there some other way to change people's minds besides discussion? Besides creating discussion-provoking art (because I'm no artist/novel writer/movie director)?

those votes were not for his views on slavery they were for his affiliation with the church.

They chose to vote for him in spite of or because of his views on slavery (or his views on appropriate dating age differences, or his views on ...). Either way that says something.

[mickmoranis]

Is there some other way to change people's minds besides discussion? Besides creating discussion-provoking art (because I'm no artist/novel writer/movie director)?



They chose to vote for him in spite of or because of his views on slavery (and the like 500 other objectionable views he holds). Either way that says something.

1. Yes don’t be a baby, don’t make assumptions about people.
2. Nope wrong, you’re projecting your opinions about your assumptions about other people onto other people. You already fucked up step 1. Work on it.

[loramin]

1. Yes don’t be a baby, don’t make assumptions about people.
2. Nope wrong, you’re projecting your opinions about your assumptions about other people onto other people. You already fucked up step 1. Work on it.

Dude, it's a fact: Moore said crazy shit, it was made public, and the people of his state almost elected him anyway. There is literally no assumption in that sentence, just fact (well, I guess "crazy shit" is subjective, but by current American political standards some of the stuff he said was objectively crazy).

Also what does not making assumptions about people have to do with changing minds through discussion? You're losing the thread of the conversation again: my point was that discussion changes minds. Changing minds is the only way to change society (how did we go from homosexuals being freaks to being almost accepted in a few decades without discussion and mind-changing?)

[stormlord]

I agree with this, just pointing out we might care more about the Middle East and Africa having zero progress and overpopulating the planet (guaranteeing conflict) as more important issues than whether people celebrate Columbus Day
Oh come on you can't give a better argument than that? Coward.

Epidemic of Ignorance: The Difficult Struggle Against AIDS in Africa
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/epidemic-of-ignorance-the-difficult-struggle-against-aids-in-africa-a-485715.html
How Belief in Magic Spreads HIV in Africa:
https://www.livescience.com/28118-how-belief-in-magic-spreads-hiv-in-africa.html
Why is AIDS Worse in Africa?:
http://discovermagazine.com/2004/feb/why-aids-worse-in-africaUnlike many African countries, where government AIDS programs have been desultory, the Botswanan government is at war against the virus. Anti-AIDS banners are everywhere, and news about the epidemic appears daily in newspapers and on the radio and TV. Free condoms are available in remote clinics, bars, and shops. Botswana’s was the first African government to offer free treatment with antiretroviral drugs. The government has also funded a Danish-run program that employs field-workers to bring the message of HIV prevention to every household.

Despite these efforts, the HIV epidemic in Botswana shows few signs of abating. Harvard anthropologist Edward Green, who also serves on the Bush administration’s Presidential Advisory Council for HIV and AIDS and is the author of Rethinking AIDS Prevention, believes he knows why. Like many government AIDS programs in Africa, Botswana’s has been heavily influenced by Western donors, who have spent billions of dollars promoting condoms but have placed little emphasis on advising people to have fewer sexual partners. Studies show that even when used consistently, condoms fail to prevent infection 10 percent of the time, due to breakage and human error. In any case, most people do not use condoms every time they have sex but only with prostitutes and casual partners. Many people use them early in a long-term relationship but then dispense with them later on as a gesture of trust. But these long-term relationships are the very ones that Morris believes are the most risky.

No I'm not support white people, merely pointing the arguments used are flaccid.

[Patriam1066]

He wasn't much of a loser. Few thousand votes is all...

I'm a low turnout off year special election in Alabama

Doesn't mean much. Plus, slavery would be an improvement for about 50% of America. At least they wouldn't be obese!

[stormlord]

Women look great in their 30s. I would say boys dressed like women look a little better younger (men look more feminine 18-24)... but trans girls aren't exactly just boys dressed like girls. Make up allows girls in their 30s and even 40s to stretch their youth quite a bit.

But I honestly don't know if trans benefit from the rounding of the hypes that comes with age in women.

My point is: Pokesan is going to hell. For making girls cry among other crimes. He only gets a pass if he suffers from low self esteem...but we all know that's not the case.
Because of C-section and other medical technologies, woman's pelvis are probably narrowing. IN the past, a narrow pelvis is more likely to f*** the baby. This meant woman with lager pelvis produced more viable offspring. So anyway. If transgirls are ever implanted with wombs, it's entirely possible for them to have babies, even if their "hypes" are narrow.

Just something to know.

[mickmoranis]

Dude, it's a fact: Moore said crazy shit, it was made public, and the people of his state almost elected him anyway. There is literally no assumption in that sentence, just fact (well, I guess "crazy shit" is subjective, but by current American political standards some of the stuff he said was objectively crazy).

Also what does not making assumptions about people have to do with changing minds through discussion? You're losing the thread of the conversation again: my point was that discussion changes minds. Changing minds is the only way to change society (how did we go from homosexuals being freaks to being almost accepted in a few decades without discussion and mind-changing?)

You’re assuming a lot about everything you clearly believe. If you eliminate all your assumptions about other people then you’re entire belief structure crumbles.

People who voted for Moore probably never even heard a word he’s ever said. He got votes because of the elderly Christian vote. That’s not a assumption, it’s how he poled.

If someone makes an excuse for someone =\= supporting or believing the ideas they are excusing.

[loramin]

You’re assuming a lot about everything you clearly believe. If you eliminate all your assumptions about other people then you’re entire belief structure crumbles.

People who voted for Moore probably never even heard a word he’s ever said. He got votes because of the elderly Christian vote. That’s not a assumption, it’s how he poled.

If someone makes an excuse for someone =\= supporting or believing the ideas they are excusing.

So in ordinary races "down ballot" voting is totally normal and common. And I'm willing to grant that some of that certainly happened in the Moore election, just like in any election.

But Roy Moore's campaign was anything but normal. His quotes got news coverage not just across his entire state, but across the entire country. On top of that Democrats spent a ton of money to support their guy (too lazy to look it up, but we're talking a huge amount of TV commercials). The people of Alabama were exposed practically non-stop to anti-Roy Moore ads that told the voters of Alabama exactly what the guy said ...

... and Alabama very nearly elected him anyway.

[mickmoranis]

low turn out, small election, church influence, but you obviouvlsy beleive in your fantasy that there are enough americans that believe we should reinstitute slavery that you have to go on a holy idiological war online.

cant help you, you dont want to grow and you believe lies your superiors have brainwashed you with

[Pokesan]

turnout 795,606
turnout 1.4 million
turnout 1.3 million

[JurisDictum]

low turn out, small election, church influence, but you obviouvlsy beleive in your fantasy that there are enough americans that believe we should reinstitute slavery that you have to go on a holy idiological war online.

cant help you, you dont want to grow and you believe lies your superiors have brainwashed you with

IDK if this means the Democrats are in for a sweep. I think they probably are. But the real significance of that election is that it showed that you can't just say "the liberal northern atheist faggots are challenging our values" and completely ghost your pervert history.

It marks a cultural shift in Alabama. And they need one. When I think of Roy Moore I think of a scene like this:

9208

All those Christian gay boys from Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia etc. They all end up drugged up and used up in Atlanta. Because of that psychotic shit they preach from the pulpit. They get disowned and end up in night clubs looking for some $upport.

Now the preacher is probably going on about the Northern Liberal Atheist Faggots corrupting these fine young men. But this whole situation was created by him and his institution.

Roy Moore was the guy signaling this was never going to change. We'll see. But I think it just might be starting to lighten up in Graceland a bit.

[mickmoranis]

cultural shift lol

these results happen every. single. election

one side wins the general the other side wins the midterms.

talk about liberals being un aware of reality lol :rolleyes:

you mellennials are so self important and think your generation is the first to realize or do anything lol its what i been saying from the get go.

surpise the womans movement happend. suprise civil rights movment happened. suprise the losing side wins midterms

think youre not a millennial? I got a suprise 4 u

[Patriam1066]

Was slavery really that bad? Btw Persians were the first to have an abolition movement. You're welcome

[mickmoranis]

https://i.imgur.com/EXG7N4Y.png

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/8/cristina-garcia-metoo-advocate-investigated-sexual/

[bomaroast]

Why are you even worrying about this? Do you have the ability to change it?

[mickmoranis]

why are you worrying about me afaik ur a fat nobody irl

[Patriam1066]

Hey umm

Not gonna post a link but male dogs win Westminster dog show 2-1 over bitches

I LOLed.

[aMindAmok]

It baffles me why feminist focus 99% of their effort trying to fix 1% of the problem.

[mickmoranis]

It baffles me why feminist focus 99% of their effort trying to fix 1% of the problem.

It is an attempted coup d'état to insert a female dominant society where men are slaves.

Were in stage 2 but its like an elaborate 12 stage plan, anti-fa, social justice warriors, cucks, democrats.. those are all the unaware, cult style brainwashed soldiers that have been manipulated to fight on the front lines, we are in the initial stage of the invasion so to speak.

In other words, they are spending 99% of their energy because they are not trying to fix, or even change 1% of the problem, they are trying to execute a complete 100% take over of humanities way of life. That takes 99% of any secret societies energy. Especially when that secret society is weak, cus it is organized and the top levels are made up of only women. Who are not known for their rational behavior.

[JurisDictum]

It is an attempted coup d'état to insert a female dominant society where men are slaves.

Were in stage 2 but its like an elaborate 12 stage plan, anti-fa, social justice warriors, cucks, democrats.. those are all the unaware, cult style brainwashed soldiers that have been manipulated to fight on the front lines, we are in the initial stage of the invasion so to speak.

In other words, they are spending 99% of their energy because they are not trying to fix, or even change 1% of the problem, they are trying to execute a complete 100% take over of humanities way of life. That takes 99% of any secret societies energy. Especially when that secret society is weak, cus it is organized and the top levels are made up of only women. Who are not known for their rational behavior.

They would have a plan to round up all the gays if any of this was true. Gay men are clearly their biggest problem in the lens of the world.

[mickmoranis]

They would have a plan to round up all the gays if any of this was true. Gay men are clearly their biggest problem in the lens of the world.

actually gays are just allies, like for example, the axis of evil.

Hitler had every intention of ruling the world, but you need allies to win the war. Do you seriously think he was going to let japan have the other half of the planet? Italy gets the Mediterranean, just miles from their capital?

[Patriam1066]

Women are still better than men and will do better in the economy of the future

It's a fact

[AzzarTheGod]

Women are still better than men and will do better in the economy of the future

It's a fact

Only cuz men are more susceptible to ADHD u sexist


























720

[skarlorn]

women suck my cock so i often favor them

[aMindAmok]

women suck my cock so i often favor them

+1

[Jimjam]

women suck my cock so i often favor them

Better a suck to cock, than a cuck to 'sock!

[AzzarTheGod]

women suck my cock so i often favor them

720

[mickmoranis]

More serious data https://youtu.be/iSp4ii7B7kc

[AzzarTheGod]

More serious data https://youtu.be/iSp4ii7B7kc

woke

[mickmoranis]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-gina-haspel-cia-director-seasoned-spymaster-2018-03-13/

FUNFACT: The sexist donald trump has promoted more women to head positions than any president in american history

funner fact?: That's becuse hes secretly setting the system to fail and collapse so he can take over

GOTEM

[skarlorn]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-gina-haspel-cia-director-seasoned-spymaster-2018-03-13/

FUNFACT: The sexist donald trump has promoted more women to head positions than any president in american history

funner fact?: That's becuse hes secretly setting the system to fail and collapse so he can take over

GOTEM

;)

[Kaight]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-gina-haspel-cia-director-seasoned-spymaster-2018-03-13/

FUNFACT: The sexist donald trump has promoted more women to head positions than any president in american history

funner fact?: That's becuse hes secretly setting the system to fail and collapse so he can take over

GOTEM

Oh don't worry your little head, Mick! That's simply not true (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/13/lara-trumps-claim-that-trump-has-appointed-more-women-than-any-other-president/?utm_term=.e93983f59edd).

TL;DR, despite what Lara Trump claimed...


Under no metric has Trump appointed more women than any previous president. In fact, he currently lags behind Obama and Clinton and possibly George W. Bush in terms of the percentage of female appointments. As we noted, the RNC tweet could have been better worded, especially since RNC officials concede this point. Trump may be better than other presidents, but not recent presidents.

The RNC said Trump has hired more women than "other administrations" (refer to linked article) -- not ANY OTHER administration. i.e. He hired more than George Washington but less than Obama, Bush, and Clinton. :)

Would love to see your sources though.

[loramin]

I know Mick linked CNBC and not Fox, but since there was nothing in the article he linked to back up what he said, I'm going to assume it originally came from Fox ...

https://i.imgur.com/y028pZK.jpg

[Kaight]

I know Mick linked CNBC and not Fox, but since there was nothing in the article he linked to back up what he said, I'm going to assume it originally came from Fox ...

Heh, that was going to be my original comment, but decided to investigate where this theory even came from. Trump family itself, how shocking.

[maskedmelon]

women are less suited to governing than men who aren't suited for it at all. Even a dumb man liek trump understands this.

[skarlorn]

lol the xxaanka sig fucking hilarious

[JurisDictum]

i didnt even dig deep into this i clicked the first suggested image a couple of times and wound up watching a haitian looking 5 year old looking girl getting her toes cut off in hollywood bluray rip quality

[Irulan]

'Women' can govern just fine. It's just not the average woman. The average man sucks at it too.

[Irulan]

P.S. I yelled at a bunch of pedos on imgur and got downvoted by like 358 incel cucks for critiquing this dumb bitches balyage that was fucking god awful and done by the least skilled person on the planet, and she was also a dumb drunk hoe who can't hide her money and wearin her purse to be snatched.

The sheer amount of ignorance and white knighting by pedomen on display was horrific. They don't want to empower this women, they want her to be a fucking victim.

[JurisDictum]

Oklahoma mom who once married her son will now go to jail for marrying her daughter
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article205088159.html#storylink=cpy

9633

[JurisDictum]

Benefits from feminism

Calls feminism useless

[Irulan]

https://i.imgur.com/c6g4PEL.jpg

[AzzarTheGod]

it's one thing to make a statement but another to be able to back it up. i once echoed this sentiment as well but put some deep thought into this one with me: name one political decision either determined by women voters, created by a woman lawmaker, or spearheaded by a woman politician that wasn't a disaster. not counting suffrage because then we run into a chicken and egg dilemma.

there's a couple examples... globally and historically.. but yeah it's pretty grim when you actually think about it.

i think women are capable of being politicians, but they don't make good voters.

Right. Its the "exception not the norm" problem. They are genetically inclined not to govern and that comes with a whole set of information processing circuitry to go along with it. I don't go as far as Big J and call them useless cows however which treads on woman hating.

[JurisDictum]

Speedd got fired from Taco Bell eventually, after skipping out work repeatedly to train raids on Sullon Zek.

[skarlorn]

men can't put in an artistic touch when they build

fuckin KEK

[nilzark]

Feminism is top-down. The top females in society are rich (white or white-acting) women. Rich white women have the most privileged position in society besides rich white (or white-acting) men. Men have to trade comfort for responsibility -- but nevertheless are given more power that lasts much longer into old age.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=242&pictureid=1049

[AzzarTheGod]

http://www.journalnow.com/news/state_region/company-behind-florida-bridge-that-collapsed-also-was-fined-by/article_79e97ac2-a66e-55ee-bef4-cdee553f305f.html

rofl the whole company is full of grrl power types too

cringe.

women in STEM when?

[this user was banned]

"It’s very important for me as a woman and an engineer to be able to promote that to my daughter, because I think women have a different perspective. We’re able to put in an artistic touch and we’re able to build, too.”

https://news.fiu.edu/2018/03/community-gathers-to-watch-950-ton-bridge-move-across-southwest-8th-street/120395


Because men can not ever be artistic?
Pablo Picasso
Leonardo da Vinci
Paul Cézanne
Rembrandt van Rijn
Claude Monet
Paul Gauguin
Vincent van Gogh
Rafael
Andy Warhol
Salvador Dalí
Sandro Botticelli
Pierre Auguste Renoir
to name just a very few.

How fucking blatantly sexist is that shit? Aren't there more famous male artists, directors, musicians anyway?

Let's not forget Leonardo da Vinci was also a very famous inventor as well as an artist.

[AzzarTheGod]

Because men can not ever be artistic?
Pablo Picasso
Leonardo da Vinci
Paul Cézanne
Rembrandt van Rijn
Claude Monet
Paul Gauguin
Vincent van Gogh
Rafael
Andy Warhol
Salvador Dalí
Sandro Botticelli
Pierre Auguste Renoir
to name just a very few.

How fucking blatantly sexist is that shit? Aren't there more famous male artists, directors, musicians anyway?

Let's not forget Leonardo da Vinci was also a very famous inventor as well as an artist.


man this sega just raid bossed on feminism

[Tnair]

one of the things people dont tell you about when it comes to equality is that men will spend 30% of their paycheck on their spouse and women will spend 10% so the pay gap is necessary (even though it is a myth and doesn't exist)

Part of the financial inequality has to do with expectations of professionalism, too.

My wife has to spend an hour putting on makeup and doing her hair, and spend about $100-150 a month on products that work to do so, or *everyone will ask her all day if she's ok* and she's *not* automatically considered "professional" enough to be the manager she is. People's opinion of her looks, both men and women, strongly affects her career options. Strangers feel comfortable telling her what they think of her makeup or not makeup, because everyone still assumes that a woman's looks are for everyone.

Meanwhile I got promoted to manager wearing goodwill sweaters and five-year-old combat boots. All I have to do is shave and use shampoo.

[mickmoranis]

Part of the financial inequality has to do with expectations of professionalism, too.

My wife has to spend an hour putting on makeup and doing her hair, and spend about $100-150 a month on products that work to do so, or *everyone will ask her all day if she's ok* and she's *not* automatically considered "professional" enough to be the manager she is. People's opinion of her looks, both men and women, strongly affects her career options. Strangers feel comfortable telling her what they think of her makeup or not makeup, because everyone still assumes that a woman's looks are for everyone.

Meanwhile I got promoted to manager wearing goodwill sweaters and five-year-old combat boots. All I have to do is shave and use shampoo.

1. she loves every minuet of spending that money that she doesnt spend on you
2. she loves every wink she gets from dudes that are bigger than you while you both walk by down the street
3. employers do not promote women cus they look like whores unless your wife looks at a strip club

[loramin]

1. she loves every minuet of spending that money that she doesnt spend on you
2. she loves every wink she gets from dudes that are bigger than you while you both walk by down the street
3. employers do not promote women cus they look like whores unless your wife looks at a strip club

Look at the single guy telling the married guy about his own wife (because apparently Mick's knowledge that half our species are completely identical to each other trumps Tnair living with his wife) ... while at the same time blatantly ignoring some incredibly obvious truths about our society.

I don't mean for this to be a personal attack, so let me be clear that when I say the word "know" I mean it in a "to know as a real person" sense, not in a "to know them Biblically" sense, but ...

... Mick when was the last time you (really) knew a woman?

[Patriam1066]

Tnair made a good point

[Patriam1066]

Are redheads attractive? I'm disgusted by all minorities and generally only liked brunettes, by now I'm into blondes. Trying to figure out these redheads currently plz halp

[Patriam1066]

can we agree that as far as professional presentation goes, perhaps too much is not expected of women but rather too little is expected of men.

go into a law office and try to find me a man wearing a properly tailored suit. you can't. it just won't happen. men dress like absolute trash from mcmanagers all the way up to ceo's. it's even been a trend/meme among west coast tech types trying to parrot steve jobs and bill gates. slovenliness on purpose.

maybe men should start trying again

Know how I know you're gay? You're checking out dudes suits