Warrior Aggro

[Audacious93c]

Hey people, just looking for a little help. I played a Wood Elf Warrior back in 99-01. I decided to do the same class/race combo again for nostalgia of course! ;)

My problem comes down to aggro or Mob hate to be more specific. I'm currently level 15 using a Screaming Mace, and Unicorn Shield. All skills are maxed, or close to being maxed (got 15 not long ago.) My stats are 78 strength, agility is 100, and dexterity is 84. I have all skills available up to lvl 15 (Dual Wield, Double Attack Etc.) I cant remember if I had problems holding aggro on a mob back then or not with a Warrior. Ive also forgotten, what exactly increases aggro or hate on a mob.
Ive been grouping with shadow knights, and their spells pretty much end up being instant taunts. Where as, I'm lucky if my taunt does anything at all. Even though, I have better equipment/weapons I cant hold the same type of aggro as them. Could someone please explain to me the intricacies of classic hate/aggro on mobs? I just feel like I'm doing a terrible job, when in reality; I'm doing all I can to get them to just even glance my way at times. :(

Thanks in advance :)

Ps. Is it just me, or do mobs hit like a freakin MAC truck? I dont recall them ever being so brutal sometimes, but then again I dont remember simple stuff. Just curious.

[President]

Mobs hit for a lot. Taunt isn't very useful until higher levels when you are fighting blues. Warriors cant old aggro over SK // Pally's due to super-hate from spells.

weapons that proc are your only hope until you are fighting blue/light blue mobs, and even then, you have little hope.

Im a 46 war.. BTW

[Sponge]

I'm currently level 15 using a Screaming Mace, and Unicorn Shield.

If you want to increase your aggro generated, never ever use a shield, instead use two one hand weapons that proc some sort of stun/dd/snare/whatever on your target. Having high dex helps too.

I'm lucky if my taunt does anything at all

Taunt, if successful, puts you at the top of the aggro list ahead of the second person by 1 aggro point. Once you are on top of the list, the only way in classic to keep building aggro is to continue to do damage, procs, and other abilities like kick/disarm/whatever (if disarm wasn't broken...). Taunt does almost nothing if you're already at the top of the aggro list, it is not a good way to build aggro. Try and save it to use immediately when you lose aggro. It also fails.. a lot.. and in classic there are no failure messages.

Taunt isn't very useful until higher levels when you are fighting blues.

This doesn't really make any sense, taunt fails more on higher cons, but it still works...

Warriors cant old aggro over SK // Pally's due to super-hate from spells.

Any Pally/Sk in a group as dps with a warrior that is tanking should learn to minimize their hate by not casting stuns or snares, etc. However, in an all out competition, I'm sure a hybrid would prevail.

[Audacious93c]

Not that it matters much, but Unicorn Shield is basically an 8/40 piercing weapon with 10 ac. Ill try to find a good 2h with a proc and see if that helps. Thanks :)

[Sponge]

Ill try to find a good 2h with a proc

I don't know if you read what I posted wrong but I strongly recommend two one handers for when aggro is needed. 2H is nice when you're just dps. I think tanking 2 handers were introduced with PoP. Blade of War, etc. And mostly only because riposte is pretty bad when you're fighting something that hits for like 5k. I doubt we'll see that in classic. :P

[canardvc]

Yeah, you can for sure hold aggro well with 2 Short Sword Of the Ykesha ... If you have the money.

Good 1 handers and proccing 1 handers are mostly expensive to buy whereas some two handers are affordable and can dish out some good damage, moreso if you got a haste (<3 you Chanters/Bards). While having two good one handers is your best bet, at lower level (at 15 only few procs do proc) a 2 hander is nice to have.

[Yilza Moosik]

If you are seeking agro for cheap money - get 2 stun whips.(Gnoll Hide Lariat - 15-20pp per. Even free for kind people) They are almost got the same agro as 2 SSoYs. But damage on them are weak. I even used them to lvl 50 when grouping, as damage from a warrior dont matter much if grouping with a full group.

[Rifter]

Get a Langseax of the Wolves. It's more than enough for aggro at your level if people aren't being stupid about DPS. This advice is from experience.

Also Gnoll Hide Lariats are going to be useless until they start procing.

[Yilza Moosik]

Also Gnoll Hide Lariats are going to be useless until they start procing.

This is true. Wont proc untill lvl 25 - but probably will be your best agro, unless you get SSoYs.

[Shads]

Taunt, if successful, puts you at the top of the aggro list ahead of the second person by 1 aggro point. Once you are on top of the list, the only way in classic to keep building aggro is to continue to do damage, procs, and other abilities like kick/disarm/whatever (if disarm wasn't broken...). Taunt does almost nothing if you're already at the top of the aggro list, it is not a good way to build aggro. Try and save it to use immediately when you lose aggro. It also fails.. a lot.. and in classic there are no failure messages.


This is not the way I remember taunt working in classic. It was not snap agro and is not snap agro here. Taunt adds threat (i.e. builds threat), this is the reason you taunt 2-4 times before breaking mez.

If I am wrong please elaborate...

[Rifter]

This is not the way I remember taunt working in classic. It was not snap agro and is not snap agro here. Taunt adds threat (i.e. builds threat), this is the reason you taunt 2-4 times before breaking mez.

If I am wrong please elaborate...

You taunted multiple times before breaking mez simply because taunt is inclined to fail a lot. Taunt either works or doesn't, it doesn't build threat through multiple use.

[Shads]

You taunted multiple times before breaking mez simply because taunt is inclined to fail a lot. Taunt either works or doesn't, it doesn't build threat through multiple use.

Says who...

[Rogean]

Taunt puts you at the top of the aggro list. If you are already at the top, it does nothing.

[Shads]

Taunt puts you at the top of the aggro list. If you are already at the top, it does nothing.

I stand corrected, thank you.

[Yoite]

some agro tips.

the closer you are to the mob the more agro you can get. So when tanking stand right up on it. Also sitting cause alot of agro, help at low lvls when tuant fails all the time, just use sitting instead. If your grping with an SK and you want to tank, ask them NOT to cast disease cloud and you should be fine. For pally ask them not to cast flash of light. Obsidian shards proc 30DD + AC debuff at lvl 16, try to get two of these.

[Rogean]

Distance to mob doesn't matter once inside melee range unless the mob is rooted, then he will prefer his closest target over anyone.

[guineapig]

Taunt puts you at the top of the aggro list. If you are already at the top, it does nothing.

I stand corrected, thank you.

It often didn't seem like snap agro on live because it's only taking the current highest agro number and adding +1 to it. In some cases something else might happen at the same time or a split second afterwards that changed everything.

Example:

Warrior has 1098 agro, enchanter has 1000 agro
Enchanter agro goes up to 1200 from a nuke (made the number up)
Warrior hits TAUNT (which lands) making his agro automatically 1201.

At this point if the warrior kicks, bashes, procs or wahtever, his agro will continue to stay on top.

However, if the warrior doesn't do any additional agro building and the enchanter sits down immediately after the nuke lands then that taunt has just been completely wasted.

Will somebody please clean that enchanter off the walls?

[Cubehacker]

I've noticed that once you hit level 20 and your skills get over 100 points, it starts to work a lot better. It won't be perfect, but Taunt works about 50-75% of the time at that point. But yeah, a SK's disease cloud spell is just insane for agro. If you have an SK in the group, either tell him to lay off that spell, or just let him tank.

[Witness]

It often didn't seem like snap agro on live because it's only taking the current highest agro number and adding +1 to it. In some cases something else might happen at the same time or a split second afterwards that changed everything.

Example:

Warrior has 1098 agro, enchanter has 1000 agro
Enchanter agro goes up to 1200 from a nuke (made the number up)
Warrior hits TAUNT (which lands) making his agro automatically 1201.

At this point if the warrior kicks, bashes, procs or wahtever, his agro will continue to stay on top.

However, if the warrior doesn't do any additional agro building and the enchanter sits down immediately after the nuke lands then that taunt has just been completely wasted.

Will somebody please clean that enchanter off the walls?

Using the same number idea.

If warrior has 1800 agro and next on list has 1000, would a successful taunt bring you to 1801, or 1001? I've heard different stories from different people, some people say if you have top agro, hitting taunt will actually hurt your agro (this is the argument that it will bring you to 1001)

[logiktrip]

It wouldn't do anything. All it does is place you on the top if it succeeds.

[guineapig]

Using the same number idea.

If warrior has 1800 agro and next on list has 1000, would a successful taunt bring you to 1801, or 1001? I've heard different stories from different people, some people say if you have top agro, hitting taunt will actually hurt your agro (this is the argument that it will bring you to 1001)

It's a very good question and I'm not certain of the answer.
The previous poster is correct that if you have agro you should never use taunt. However, I am not certain what happens to the agro numbers if you do.


EDIT: I have also heard it referred to as Taunt = HATE+1 and that it takes HATE+4 to actually turn a mob (a swing usually accomplishes this).
Although I cannot confirm this 100% it would explain why if you just sit there and taunt a mezzed mob twice and do nothing else the mob will still go after the chanter once mez wears off (unless it was broken by a stun or bash or something along those lines).

[Viscerate]

Yeah, only use taunt when you lose aggro, and SK's aggro control isn't as good as it becomes in velious I think, whenever they were given those ac and atk steal debuffs. Also the people you play will need to understand aggro too, otherwise it won't matter even if you are the best aggro tank in the world.

[guineapig]

Hey people, just looking for a little help. I played a Wood Elf Warrior back in 99-01. I decided to do the same class/race combo again for nostalgia of course! ;)

My problem comes down to aggro or Mob hate to be more specific. I'm currently level 15 using a Screaming Mace, and Unicorn Shield. All skills are maxed, or close to being maxed (got 15 not long ago.) My stats are 78 strength, agility is 100, and dexterity is 84. I have all skills available up to lvl 15 (Dual Wield, Double Attack Etc.) I cant remember if I had problems holding aggro on a mob back then or not with a Warrior. Ive also forgotten, what exactly increases aggro or hate on a mob.
Ive been grouping with shadow knights, and their spells pretty much end up being instant taunts. Where as, I'm lucky if my taunt does anything at all. Even though, I have better equipment/weapons I cant hold the same type of aggro as them. Could someone please explain to me the intricacies of classic hate/aggro on mobs? I just feel like I'm doing a terrible job, when in reality; I'm doing all I can to get them to just even glance my way at times. :(

Thanks in advance :)

Ps. Is it just me, or do mobs hit like a freakin MAC truck? I dont recall them ever being so brutal sometimes, but then again I dont remember simple stuff. Just curious.



On a side note there is a bunch of info that can be found on taunt here:

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/archive/index.php/f-2.html

Just do a ctrl+F and search for "taunt"

Some of the info mentions AA's so ignore those parts since we will never have AA's on this server.
Long story short, you can't always blame taunt or the warrior. This game was made to be challenging and other people in the group are supposed to know how to manage their own aggro. That's why certain classes specifically get aggro reduction spells and abilities.

On live I only ever had agro problems in pick up groups but when I was in a guild group everything always went smoothly so don't necessarily beat yourself up over this. Hit 20, max taunt and see if things improve (test on blue cons to start).

[Yoite]

good way to pick up agro on a mesed mob it taunt and then sit then attack, that way you will get a lot more agro than just +1.

[Bashez]

It often didn't seem like snap agro on live because it's only taking the current highest agro number and adding +1 to it. In some cases something else might happen at the same time or a split second afterwards that changed everything.

Example:

Warrior has 1098 agro, enchanter has 1000 agro
Enchanter agro goes up to 1200 from a nuke (made the number up)
Warrior hits TAUNT (which lands) making his agro automatically 1201.

At this point if the warrior kicks, bashes, procs or wahtever, his agro will continue to stay on top.

However, if the warrior doesn't do any additional agro building and the enchanter sits down immediately after the nuke lands then that taunt has just been completely wasted.

Will somebody please clean that enchanter off the walls?

It is a lot more complicated than you are painting. If a warrior has 1098 aggro and the enchanter nukes to 1200 then the warrior should hold aggro provided the enchanter isn't in melee range and doesn't do something silly like sit. If the enchanter sits then the mob will tear off for the enchanter and if they stand before the mob gets to melee range then the mob will turn back to the warrior. Sitting enchanters are a warrior's bane. I've grouped with many rogues that don't pay attention to the rooted mob beating on them so I just run off and sit to move the mob. Sitting is big aggro.

I've also been of the mind to spam taunt. I don't really understand waiting to lose focus before taunting. You can lose aggro without losing focus and taunt should put you back on top and nobody knows how bad of a class you are because the mob never hit anyone else.

[Rogean]

That last line in your post only makes sense if you have terrible reflexes, in which case people will have already noticed how bad of a tank you are. Taunt should be used only if your not on aggro, with fast enough reaction if you do lose aggro that you only lose it for a couple seconds. If taunt is down because you mashed it like a retard you'll have to wait for it to come back up.

If your already at the top of hate and hit taunt, it does nothing.

Who can tell I play a warrior on eqlive >_>

[guineapig]

It is a lot more complicated than you are painting. If a warrior has 1098 aggro and the enchanter nukes to 1200 then the warrior should hold aggro provided the enchanter isn't in melee range and doesn't do something silly like sit. If the enchanter sits then the mob will tear off for the enchanter and if they stand before the mob gets to melee range then the mob will turn back to the warrior. Sitting enchanters are a warrior's bane. I've grouped with many rogues that don't pay attention to the rooted mob beating on them so I just run off and sit to move the mob. Sitting is big aggro.

I've also been of the mind to spam taunt. I don't really understand waiting to lose focus before taunting. You can lose aggro without losing focus and taunt should put you back on top and nobody knows how bad of a class you are because the mob never hit anyone else.

You basically just repeated everything I have said. Then negated it all by saying that mashing taunt is useful... I'm confused by your post.

(P.S. It's best for a chanter to stay in melee range when using a high taunt spell like Tash or slow on live. If done right the chanter won't get agro. If done wrong the mob is still in range of the warrior's taunt, melee and other abilities. Nobody uses root to keep agro on live, it's just a bad idea.)

[guineapig]

That last line in your post only makes sense if you have terrible reflexes, in which case people will have already noticed how bad of a tank you are. Taunt should be used only if your not on aggro, with fast enough reaction if you do lose aggro that you only lose it for a couple seconds. If taunt is down because you mashed it like a retard you'll have to wait for it to come back up.

If your already at the top of hate and hit taunt, it does nothing.

Who can tell I play a warrior on eqlive >_>

Yup yup, my secondary character was a lvl 65 Halfling warrior.
I even got to be main tank on Terris Thule raid when I was just 63!

[Sponge]

Did anyone even read my post near the beginning of this thread? :P

[Murphy]

Derail: AC debuff spells hate needs to be upped. (looking at you, Obsidian Shatter / Flamelick)

[axius]

on this server as a warrior you have 2 options:

2x obsidian shards - get these ASAP

use those until you can get:

2x ssoy's

that's the end of the discussion so far as what you CAN do for better threat on this server

[Bashez]

That last line in your post only makes sense if you have terrible reflexes, in which case people will have already noticed how bad of a tank you are. Taunt should be used only if your not on aggro, with fast enough reaction if you do lose aggro that you only lose it for a couple seconds. If taunt is down because you mashed it like a retard you'll have to wait for it to come back up.

If your already at the top of hate and hit taunt, it does nothing.

Who can tell I play a warrior on eqlive >_>

If you are generating 75 threat per second while a caster is doing 100 threat per second and you start at 500 and they start at 0. I've immediately mashed taunt and it has done nothing. 6 seconds later you have 950 and they have 600. Another 6 seconds and it is 1400 to 1200. Mashing taunt does nothing again. Another 6 seconds go by. 1850 to 1800. Another 6: 2300 to 2400. I still have aggro because I am melee range and the caster is not. I mash taunt and my threat goes to 2401. Now with 100% taunt success I can never lose aggro because the caster cannot put enough distance on me in 6 seconds to draw aggro. As the aggro numbers grow higher I need a less effective taunt to hold aggro as well. Additionally in the instance of a failed taunt my taunt will be refreshing (because I mashed it) and yours will need a full cooldown because your missed came after already losing focus.

My argument of course rests on two things I'm not 100% on. That at range players need a percentage increase in threat over the tank to take aggro. And that being second on hate but first on focus (due to being closer) taunting will actually move you to first on hate. Back in the day we didn't have any way to tangibly measure taunt so if taunt works differently I'd like to know.

[Yilza Moosik]

on this server as a warrior you have 2 options:

2x obsidian shards - get these ASAP

use those until you can get:

2x ssoy's

that's the end of the discussion so far as what you CAN do for better threat on this server

Obsidian shards aint that good agro - think ac debuff or something is bugged, cause agro aint that great. Gnoll Hide Lariats are way better for agro, than obsidian shards. But less damage of course. :)

[Bashez]

My bard friend had aggro problems with his staff of writhing. I let him use my obsidian shards and he stopped getting aggro. They have been pretty terrible aggro as far as I can tell.

[guineapig]

My bard friend had aggro problems with his staff of writhing. I let him use my obsidian shards and he stopped getting aggro. They have been pretty terrible aggro as far as I can tell.


Yeah, that staff uses a chanter nuke and all chanter nukes give HUGE agro.
This is partially due to the fact that they include a split second stun component of course.

[Rifter]

My bard friend had aggro problems with his staff of writhing. I let him use my obsidian shards and he stopped getting aggro. They have been pretty terrible aggro as far as I can tell.

Was your bard friend's level high enough to proc those weapons? Those things are mad aggro.

Also, bards are terrible at melee.

[Frankee]

I've also noticed a huge difference in threat gen when I have a damage shield so im guessing you get the threat generated by it.

I would suggest if your in a group with a damage shield buffer that you be the only person to receive it. It's even harder pulling mobs back from group mates who have DS'es as well.

Anyone confirm / deny this?

[Icecometus]

Before they took out the "your spell has wore off" messages I don't remember seeing a message after having the shards proc multiple times within the 1min duration of the AC penalty. Does anyone else? It might be that the AC debuff is not working correctly.

[Yoite]

when we still had the so and so spell has worn off messages you would get a new message each time the shard proced if it proced again before the debuff normal duration expired.

[Dantes]

I think it's working fine. The proc still creates plenty of hate.

[Chicka]

I've also noticed a huge difference in threat gen when I have a damage shield so im guessing you get the threat generated by it.

I would suggest if your in a group with a damage shield buffer that you be the only person to receive it. It's even harder pulling mobs back from group mates who have DS'es as well.

Anyone confirm / deny this?

I can tell you that was the way it worked on classic live but haven't done any testing here. As proof I will present the list of expletives I used when someone DS'd my cleric cause he was getting hit... in another post maybe.