Ranger vs Warrior Archer

[oqrelord]

Im thinking of making a toon focusing on archery for fun.
What class do you think would be more fun or could do more dps with a bow?

Rangers get obv utilities and can crit / later can do double dmg 51+ but only in groups with bow.

Warrior can cripple blow archery and kite with sow pots.

Anyone with experience of either please chime in.

[beargryllz]

Ranger

Warriors will always be way more effective in melee

Rangers at least have a few niche encounters where they prefer archery

[fastboy21]

I prefer the charm of an ogre warrior archer.

Everybody has an Elven/Human Ranger...you'll be unique as a dedicated ogre archer.

[Turd]

So bow kiting is rough.

I actually bow kited from 1 to 20 on a ranger without leveling any melee skills.

It took me about a week or so. Other melee rangers I have leveled go from 1 to 20 in about 2 days of FoB/Kurns.

If you are going archery though, ranger is the way to go. Warrior would be fun, but you won't be able to go very high with solely archery on either toon.

Also its pretty impossible to solo after about 55 on a warrior, but you can take ranger solo all the way to 60 if you're ballsy enough.

[skarlorn]

Ranger gonna be easier warrior way cooler and useful in the end.

[oqrelord]

Rule of cool it is!

Thanks all, will let you know how it goes.

[Baler]

Ranger is thee archer class on p99. yeah, yeah warrior and sk can play cowboy and indian with bows. Legolas was a ranger.

[Ivory]

AN ARCHERY QUESTION?! :3 Hold my milk!!

((I soloed with archery on my ranger till 56, untwinked! But, if you plan to twink, a little secret is that bow damage isn't limited like melee damage is....so you can run around shooting stuff for 40 at level 1))

1) Ranger - Very good archery soloing if you can get a decent bow (which, with bow of the huntsman isn't that hard even if you have no money. If you really want one of these you could could it at level 10 or sooner with a little random passerby help).

And, of course, once you get the wuoshi bow (skydarkener, Pal + SHD also get it btw).... everything becomes insane (starts to proc at 35 if you are lucky enough to get it before 50. It is an AE of 184 damage. I've had it proc 5 times in a row ). You suddenly find yourself able to quad kite non stop like a wizard :| Making you capable of doing stuff like quadding urthomirs or armors in wakening land....or whatever anyone else quads.

Takes a little longer, sure, but you never need to med (and actually, rangers get one AE spell that is pretty decent to throw in there as you run around).

Rangers also can root rot in dungeons and basically anywhere you can back up a little bit.

Rangers are actually one of the strongest soloers in the game....oddly enough. I could even outpace necromancers. Or do things no one else can do, like solo sand giants at level 12. Rangers are only limited by the size of their quiver ...and once you get the bracer to summon arrows, you aren't even limited there anymore (with a good bow, you can even kill casters and shoot further than they can cast...).

Just don't forget to use your spells between shots (DD spells, or dots when rooting....even flame lick helps). A lot of rangers tend to ignore the power of their spells. But as an archer you can med while killing stuff! You only need to stand for a split second to shoot and then sit back down.

This lets you bow + cast even in a group and keep up. Though much more work.

2) Shadowknights .....the fabled "shadow archer". This was a theory I had while being a ranger and eventually tried out (problem is their more limited number of bows). It is actually stronger than a ranger at kiting!!!!

The problem is lack of sow, lack of root, and lack of longer lasting snare (which makes bow killing in cramped spaces in a dungeon harder).

BUT being able to keep such high agro with disease cloud and other dots means you can run around with your pet hitting on it (adding some ok free damage).

I'm not too sure how the shadow archer scales later levels (since they don't get the double damage on stationary targets, or the trueshot discipline....and they don't get the ability to summon their own arrows).....but pets + dot stacks + bow is a pretty decent contender (maybe even passing a rangers typical damage).

3) Warrior - ....eehhh. I've thought about it a lot. But the lack of spells means you aren't really working with much. Yea they can crit, but I'm not sure that is enough to make up for the lack of spells (on a ranger, spells are a big source of damage).

My only theory with warrior is if you could somehow keep yourself low life so you cripple strike a lot. That might make an interesting build and make up for the lack of damage? But, again, you just lack SO much utility and i doubt you would make up the difference in damage.

4) Holy Archer - Paladin archery?!?! This is something I haven't tested....but I have a good idea how it would work.

They get root (which is great for being able to med while fighting) but they don't get much in the way of damage additions to help out with the bow fighting (except vs undead, in which case they are better than ranger).

They do get access to the wuoshi bow like SKs though....which is a big advantage later on.

The thing about holy archers that make them shine is their group friendlyness. I think being able to med while archering would make them great for grouping and helping out to heal and CC with roots (since, like I said with rangers, being able to med while fighting is a big advantage and gives hybrids way more use of their magic than they would ever get if they have to melee all the time).

Especially if you take the time to get a good bow early on....you will be contributing more than most others in the group.

I think a lot of people underestimate hybrids spells. But even with my ranger I remember my heals being a HUGE help in grouping situations during 20's and 30's. I can only imagine how much better it would be as a paladin.

But, again, the damage dropping off so drastically if you aren't fighting undead....and the issue with scaling later in the game (lack of high end bows and no double damage at 51 on stationary targets)....are big problems.

SKs keep up with the pets + spells (especially important if you are soloing a lot). But with paladin I guess they are more of a group friendly archer.

[Jimjam]

Hah! I was sure this question was to bring Ivory out from lurking!
and once you get the bracer to summon arrows, you aren't even limited there anymore.

Provided you can buy the time to cast the summon, of course.

I think the Holy Archer could kinda work when a paladin is forced into the role of healing. The paladin could pop off a quick /stand /sit between med ticks to fling an arrow as 'free' dps..

[Muggens]

^The Arrow Dance

[Troxx]

Rangers are actually one of the strongest soloers in the game....oddly enough.

Lol no.

I could even outpace necromancers.

Divorced from reality much?

[Ivory]

Lol no.

Divorced from reality much?

You underestimate my powerrr!

End game though it changes when dealing with anything that summons of course. And in dungeons it isn't ideal.

I think the Holy Archer could kinda work when a paladin is forced into the role of healing.

I really want to try it...but knowing the low skill cap on archery and lack of damage vs normal monsters....and lack of access to bows (like no easy bow of huntsmen) ....and the worse part of all, can't be gnomes....makes it hard to go with it -_-

[Troxx]

Have you ever actually played a necromancer?

[Ivory]

Have you ever actually played a necromancer?

Only to 51 :o

[mickmoranis]

I prefer the charm of an ogre warrior archer.

Everybody has an Elven/Human Ranger...you'll be unique as a dedicated ogre archer.

especially if you only wear green armor, either player crafted somehow or by questing to find that green stuff.

Green ogre archer would be amazing lol

especially if you RP'd and everytime your group yelled at u you were like ME FLING ARROW ME DA BEST ME RAISED BY RANGER AND ME A RANGER and just ignored their instructions.

[Muggens]

Green ogres rule - I have two

[mickmoranis]

ME RAISED BY RANGER AFTER SOME PALADIN KILL MOMMY AND DADDY IN WEST KARNARARNARA IN OUR CAMP. ME LUV NATURE AND ME USE NATURE TO FLING ARROW AT BEAST WHO TRAMPLE ON NATURE

[skarlorn]

especially if you only wear green armor, either player crafted somehow or by questing to find that green stuff.

Green ogre archer would be amazing lol

especially if you RP'd and everytime your group yelled at u you were like ME FLING ARROW ME DA BEST ME RAISED BY RANGER AND ME A RANGER and just ignored their instructions.

i absolutely agree with this

i can craft you and dye you a set of green fine plate OP

it will be so god damn good

[Foxplay]

Warrior, cause rangers cant be iksar's

[Munkh]

So this thread was an absolute waste of time.

[Valrok]

i absolutely agree with this

i can craft you and dye you a set of green fine plate OP

it will be so god damn good

[fastboy21]

So this thread was an absolute waste of time.

As compared to your serious no-nonsense EQ business?

[QFuzzle]

I liked this thread and I especially enjoyed Ivory's enthusiasm. He made some bold statements, but I am betting the people who doubt him haven't actually tried what he has done.
I like when people challenge themselves in this game and try new things. Making a point to visit zones they've never been to, do quests they've never done, play a class they've never played, and even some more creative and challenging scenarios.

[skarlorn]

I liked this thread and I especially enjoyed Ivory's enthusiasm. He made some bold statements, but I am betting the people who doubt him haven't actually tried what he has done.
I like when people challenge themselves in this game and try new things. Making a point to visit zones they've never been to, do quests they've never done, play a class they've never played, and even some more creative and challenging scenarios.

Yeah she is a master of alternate questing.

[mickmoranis]

OK gentlemen

we have determined there is now such thing as a (roleplay) ogre ranger, by only using green armor and a bow.

What other roleplay classes are there and could I think I would like to play one.. but idk what etoeher combos could you make that would be fun to RP and annoy other players with?

1. Ogre Ranger (only bow, green or dyed green armor only)
2. ?
3. ??
4. ???
5. ????
6. ?????

[Jimjam]

Halfling Shadowknight of Bristlebane.

Electrobuzzer handshake harm touch prank.

[Arkanjil]

I just don’t see the argument how rangers are the best at archery. Warriors have a higher attack potential, crippling shots (3x), and can use the very best bow. Sure rangers get true shot, but warriors get precision. I’d put my money on a crippling precision warrior throwing shots over any ranger disc. Crippling blows aren’t just a replacement for critical hits. They also happen far more often.

Plus Ogre....

[oqrelord]

I just don’t see the argument how rangers are the best at archery. Warriors have a higher attack potential, crippling shots (3x), and can use the very best bow. Sure rangers get true shot, but warriors get precision. I’d put my money on a crippling precision warrior throwing shots over any ranger disc. Crippling blows aren’t just a replacement for critical hits. They also happen far more often.

So im still in the process of crafting this character. It could still go war or ranger at this point...

Ive played neither to high level... what about ranger being able to gain double dmg on stationary targets? Do you guys think that would edge out warriors?

3x dmg crippling war
4x dmg crit stationary ranger

Am I missing something?

[paulgiamatti]

Double damage doesn't require a stationary target, or at least if it's supposed to then it doesn't on P99. In fact, it's the opposite - stationary targets mitigate 50% bow damage, which I'm sure is true for any class. I'd say double damage is about a 50% proc rate, and yeah because of this a ranger is going to destroy a warrior in bow DPS.

[paulgiamatti]

Stationary targets will mitigate 50% archery damage across all classes I believe. Double damage can still occur for a ranger on a stationary target, but in that case it will just be doing normal damage.

Edit: Apparently double dmg on stationaries is a feature of Trueshot for rangers, should be working as intended on P99. Also worth noting that Trueshot has a 2-minute duration.

[Murri]

There is no way a warrior beats a trueshot ranger with BFG/epic/fleeting quiver

[oqrelord]

Stationary targets will mitigate 50% archery damage across all classes I believe. Double damage can still occur for a ranger on a stationary target, but in that case it will just be doing normal damage.

Edit: Apparently double dmg on stationaries is a feature of Trueshot for rangers, should be working as intended on P99. Also worth noting that Trueshot has a 2-minute duration.


Dang so there is no actual added damage multiplier for pewing stationary mobs that you cant achieve by kiting it?

So aside from trueshot a crippling bowshot will be the biggest hit?

Im leaning more towards war now if this is the case.

[paulgiamatti]

Dang so there is no actual added damage multiplier for pewing stationary mobs that you cant achieve by kiting it?

I'm not entirely sure on the mechanics here, but it sounds like Trueshot simply negates the intrinsic 50% damage mitigation you normally get when shooting stationary mobs with a bow. Archery nerds may want to weigh in.

So aside from trueshot a crippling bowshot will be the biggest hit?

Im leaning more towards war now if this is the case.

A double damage, critical Trueshot hit will be the biggest - the multipliers will stack. A non-Trueshot, double damage critical hit will still be bigger than a warrior's crippling blow. I'd bet my life that even without Trueshot, ranger archery will still greatly out damage a warrior's with equal stats & gear.

Also, proc-snaring stuff as a warrior would be a total pain in the ass. Archery sucks in EQ, but it sucks the least for rangers.

[skarlorn]

i'm sure ranger is the superior min/max choice but who gives a fuck about min/max?

we all wanna see a massive ogre wearing green plate hauling ass across the horizon doing 360 noscope bowshots for 1k damage

[Sajan]

Level 51+ Rangers deal double damage on all stationary, non-rooted targets at all times. Trueshot allows you to hit for max damage or up to double damage with a bow with an increased hit probability on top of the bonus you get to stationary targets.

[Jimjam]

Fun fact!

Against giant mobs where their melee circle is larger than the minimum range for bow, you can put your fire beetle eye in your primary slot, pop trueshot, shoot your range slot while pulsing auto attacking with your off hand!

Ghetto BFG!

[Troxx]

For ranger double damage:

If rooted and not moving no double dmg
If moving no double dmg
If not rooted and not moving ie being tanked - ranger gets double dmg.

Basic ranger mechanics.

[paulgiamatti]

That makes more sense. Using Windstriker, I was under the impression that snared and moving targets could still be hit for double damage, but now I see the double dmg was only hitting after the stun proc, during the stun duration. Looks like I usually get off about 3 shots during the stun. Just another reason why Windstriker is arguably the best bow in the game.

[Kealenfists]

especially if you only wear green armor, either player crafted somehow or by questing to find that green stuff.

Green ogre archer would be amazing lol

especially if you RP'd and everytime your group yelled at u you were like ME FLING ARROW ME DA BEST ME RAISED BY RANGER AND ME A RANGER and just ignored their instructions.

haha

[paulgiamatti]

Oh also,

If rooted and not moving no double dmg

Rooted mobs will mitigate 50% archery damage, so you'll hit for half damage - this is what I thought people meant by "stationary". Stationary is probably the wrong word, but easier than saying "stunned or engaged in melee and not rooted".

So it's more like,

If mob is rooted, no double dmg + halves dmg
If mob is moving, no double dmg
If mob is not rooted and not moving ie engaged in melee/stunned, ranger gets double dmg

[Ivory]

So much misinformation!

Archery doesn't work like melee weapons.....it isn't that it is doing half damage, it is just that it doesn't get the bonus as you level up and it calculates the weapon damage differently.

So a 20/40 bow feels like a 10/40 sword (but it isn't some natural mitigation coming from the mobs). But, unlike melee, archery also has arrows. So having a 20 damage bow + a 10 damage arrow means you are wielding a 30 damage weapon (though, again, in melee terms it feels more like a 15 damage weapon).

This is why a really fast bow can actually be strong if you are using some high damage arrows (though who wants to burn through money like that? :P Still, would be interesting to see how well it would DPS with the right bow / arrow combo).

Also rangers are the only ones who get double damage at 51 against unmoving (and unrooted) targets. This sets them apart at higher levels when using pure archery. But you also have to remember that doing damage as an archer isn't just the bow.....adding onto it with spells is SUPER important (something warriors can't really do).

Trueshot also doubles your damage (stacking with the ranger natural double damage). So if you would have shot for 10, you would hit for 20 instead. This means you can have some pretty wimpy trueshot shots. But also some spectacular criticals.

[7thGate]

Ranger DPS with bows and high quality arrows is actually not bad. ALS has been having our rangers shoot from outside AOE range on a number of different targets. We did a parse once on the bee queen in sky, and the two rangers did 5075 and 4281 damage respectively in, IIRC, 55 seconds with trueshot active (60 and 56 rangers, Exquisite Velium/Windstriker and 5 damage arrows, respectively). That was 2nd and 3rd on the raid, behind a 60 rogue at 5975. We also had the 56 ranger parse against Vindi once, and did about 3500 damage/minute.

The important part about it is that arrows can't eat enrage if the mob death touches and flips on the DPS, they can't be disrupted with dragon fear, they can't be slowed or stunned by breath weapon attacks. Its just 80-90% of rogue DPS for 2 minutes completely unimpeded by whatever a mob's abilities to mess with the raid are, and that can be very strong, especially against old world mobs that rely on AOE damage/debilitation effects to stop the raid from just straight up murdering their small HP pools.

[Jimjam]

Your mention of sky has reminded me; bows are also a great way to avoid PBAoE dispels! Also, when kiting casters, during the time they stand still to cast their spells you will get the stationary bonus as a 51 ranger.

[Asscastle]

OK gentlemen

What other roleplay classes are there and could I think I would like to play one.. but idk what etoeher combos could you make that would be fun to RP and annoy other players with?



The only gnome SK in the game - a bertoxx cleric who spams the initiate symbol clicky (disease cloud) and melees things to death. If anyone asks about the complete heals, just say that you have a lot of reapers of the dead in your bags. Get a staff of discord to make it look like you have a painbringer's rod. Insist on tanking in every group.

[skarlorn]

Ranger DPS with bows and high quality arrows is actually not bad. ALS has been having our rangers shoot from outside AOE range on a number of different targets. We did a parse once on the bee queen in sky, and the two rangers did 5075 and 4281 damage respectively in, IIRC, 55 seconds with trueshot active (60 and 56 rangers, Exquisite Velium/Windstriker and 5 damage arrows, respectively). That was 2nd and 3rd on the raid, behind a 60 rogue at 5975. We also had the 56 ranger parse against Vindi once, and did about 3500 damage/minute.

The important part about it is that arrows can't eat enrage if the mob death touches and flips on the DPS, they can't be disrupted with dragon fear, they can't be slowed or stunned by breath weapon attacks. Its just 80-90% of rogue DPS for 2 minutes completely unimpeded by whatever a mob's abilities to mess with the raid are, and that can be very strong, especially against old world mobs that rely on AOE damage/debilitation effects to stop the raid from just straight up murdering their small HP pools.
love u guys

[Xealias]

Oh also,



Rooted mobs will mitigate 50% archery damage, so you'll hit for half damage - this is what I thought people meant by "stationary".

Literally every post you've made in this thread has been wrong. You should feel bad if you main a ranger.

Ivory seems like the bestest ranger tbh. I think I love him/her.

[Rainik Stormseeker]

love u guys

Thanks Skar =) Our bee fight trueshot ranger line is indeed glorious.

[kotton05]

A warriors bow is better, higher skill