Why does root suck?

[1203jjt]

Could someone please explain why root breaks all the time? I'm talking about casting it on blues, and it breaks 2 seconds later. This sort of defeats the purpose of having a root spell at all...

[loramin]

Higher level root spells last longer (I think Paralyzing Earth may be as long as two minutes), so at least you have that to look forward to. I still remember the base "Root" spell to be pretty useful on its own though ...

[skarlorn]

you need to flick your wrist more 3/4 of te way thru spel

it's similar to wingardium leviosA instead of wingardium leviOSa

[1203jjt]

Higher level root spells last longer (I think Paralyzing Earth may be as long as two minutes), so at least you have that to look forward to. I still remember the base "Root" spell to be pretty useful on its own though ...

I'm a lvl 34 druid...and it still sucks.

[1203jjt]

Nothing, I'm just tired of having to cast it 5 times to kill a single mob...spending as much mana on root nearly as dots.

[1203jjt]

I literally just had to cast it 6 times in one fight to kill a rhino...that's outrageous. This cannot be correct.

[skarlorn]

are you basing this complaint off of your rhino quest or all mobs?

i think rhinos are especially resistant

[Supaskillz]

I have been playing my shaman quite a bit and it seems fine. I seem to get max duration roots over 50% of the time on blue cons that are quite a bit below me (will likely turn green next level). Then of course nukes and some dots have a chance to break it when the land. I don't have any data, but feels like about 20% of the time it breaks on one of those.

It was a long time ago, and i'm not going to go do a bunch of research, but this is consistent with my memory that roots were not guaranteed duration and nukes and shit could break them.

[1203jjt]

Where are you hunting Supaskillz? Because it's not in the OT I'm guessing...

[loramin]

Where are you hunting Supaskillz? Because it's not in the OT I'm guessing...

Mobs in OT have crazy resists, which is why I never animal charm there (but happily animal charm without issue in many other zones). I have no idea if that's classic or a P99 thing (it feels like a P99 thing to discourage people from an already overly-popular zone, but I didn't play a Druid much back on live so I don't know for certain).

Either way, I wouldn't base your entire opinion of the spell solely on how it works against some of the most resistant (for their level) animals in the entire game.

P.S. As a side note, a Druid of your level can get XP MUCH faster with animal charming than with root/rotting (especially if you can get a Goblin Ghazugi Ring, although even if you can't and have to cast invis on yourself it's still better XP). I definitely recommend checking it out.

[Supaskillz]

Sol b mostly. I'm certain different mobs have different mr which I assume impacts duration, but my point is just it doesn't seem that bad to me /shrug

[1203jjt]

Maybe it's just this zone then...or Kunark or some crap.

[loramin]

Maybe it's just this zone then...or Kunark or some crap.

It's just the zone. Kunark mobs in general have normal/sane resists. I could charm in Emerald Jungle just fine, and plenty of druids root/rot dragons in Skyfire (next door to OT) without issue. There's just something unique about the P99 OT code that says "all animal mobs here have +50 (or so) magic resist."

/shrug

[1203jjt]

And it just broke 8 times on a hill giant in NK, forcing me to gate...a white con, which I was only able to get to 70% health because root kept breaking...this is not right.

[Baler]

I am late to this party but...
Mobs break root like crazy when you're sub 60 and even very often when you are 60. Malo/Tash line of spells will help with root breaks due to -MR...
Root Break is checked on server ticks, every 6 seconds.

You could land root 1ms before the server tick and have it break instantly.

The topic of root/enstill/immobilize/PE/etc get's brought up a Lot on p99...
Searching the forums (https://www.project1999.com/forums/search.php) you can find dozens of threads on this topic.

---
It's getting to the point in my opinion where all root spells should come with a user warning so these questions stop getting asked so often. (no offense op)
And it's my opinion that the root and charm break chance is not classic, aka happens more than it should.

[Itap]

NPC level plays a large part also. Your root will land and last a longer duration on a NPC that is 5+ levels lower than you, as opposed to one that is even con (as mentioned above) or 1 - 2 levels lower than you.

[loramin]

And it just broke 8 times on a hill giant in NK, forcing me to gate...a white con, which I was only able to get to 70% health because root kept breaking...this is not right.

LOL the fact that you're higher than level 4 and think you should be able to solo even cons without immense effort is what's not right.

[Ciksharn]

I am late to this party but...


The topic of root/enstill/immobilize/PE/etc get's brought up a Lot on p99...
Searching the forums (https://www.project1999.com/forums/search.php) you can find dozens of threads on this topic.

---
It's getting to the point in my opinion where all root spells should come with a user warning so these questions stop getting asked so often. (no offense op)
And it's my opinion that the root and charm break chance is not classic, aka happens more than it should.
This just needs to be reposted

[Fragged]

If you think root sucks here you should have tried playing on live, back then you couldn't even look at a mob and root would break let alone have any source of melee DPS on the rooted mob.

[indiscriminate_hater]

shit's classic

[rollin5k]

Please make easy game easier please

[Bboboo]

Did you ever once consider that it might be you that sucks and not root?

[kaev]

Could someone please explain why root breaks all the time? I'm talking about casting it on blues, and it breaks 2 seconds later. This sort of defeats the purpose of having a root spell at all...

OMG quit you whining, root more reliable here than it was on live. Had a few quick root breaks the other day and it was nostalgia time baby.

[fastboy21]

Its just straight resist checks.

If you tash/malo the mob it will stay rooted much longer. For most blue mobs you can expect the root spell to last the entire duration at higher levels.

I rarely see a blue mob break paralyzing earth (3 min root) unless I nuke it. For harder mobs frequently tash/malo makes it last the full duration.

I do think that there is actually something screwy about how root break checks work on p99, but I don't think thats what you are describing. Sounds like you are just low lvl and trying to get root to stick on even cons or high mr mobs.

The only thing I will actually consider is that waaay back they did adjust the root resist checks (several years ago). I don't think that I've played a low lvl caster since they made those changes...it is possible that the resist checks at low lvl need tweaking. Again, all things above considered, it may just be your lvl and choice of mobs.

[jakerees]

Good question OP and very understandable your confusion as many often just assume that the root spell holds the mobs in place by sucking them down to the ground like some kind of quick sand or something but that is more in the paralyzing earth line while the root spell actually causes roots that are in the ground to grow out and grab the creature by the foot/leg/whatever movement method they use and holds them for a certain amount of time, either until the roots weaken on their own or until the creature's magical resistance allows them to break free of these roots so hope this helps and let me know if you come by a child's tear you want to sell for 5k or so we can talk ok thanks. Double it until it

[Brandonian10]

And it just broke 8 times on a hill giant in NK, forcing me to gate...a white con, which I was only able to get to 70% health because root kept breaking...this is not right.

[kaev]

Good question OP and very understandable your confusion as many often just assume that the root spell holds the mobs in place by sucking them down to the ground like some kind of quick sand or something but that is more in the paralyzing earth line while the root spell actually causes roots that are in the ground to grow out and grab the creature by the foot/leg/whatever movement method they use and holds them for a certain amount of time, either until the roots weaken on their own or until the creature's magical resistance allows them to break free of these roots so hope this helps and let me know if you come by a child's tear you want to sell for 5k or so we can talk ok thanks. Double it until it

OMG Jake, I think I love you.

[aaezil]

Good question
Also why does charm suck?

[Buellen]

Played a druid during live 1997 and on.


was my understanding a mob that was rooted could break root upon taking direct damage(melee / spell/ability)

Why druid kind of sucked due to most of the druid root line having a dd component. You would cast root mob become root then damage was applied and since you did direct damage could break root right away. DOTS that did no direct damage would not break root this way.

so much uproar from druid complaining led to Sony changes the druid spell lines. They where changed so that initial DD component of root had a reduced or no chance to break the root I do not remember exact changes.

How P1999 goes about this implementing this effect i do not know. In my time here on p1999 I have seen other classes root behave like i remember them from live in so far that if you beat on the mob and or direct damage them while it is rooted they tend have root break.

Hope this helps or whatever 8)

general info on root roting tactic but desribes my memories of playing druid during live :

http://everquest.wikia.com/wiki/Root_rotting

[Buellen]

root discussion from p1999 boards circa 2014:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156778&page=5


INFORMATION BELLOW IS NOT EVIDENCE:

I post this here as it correlates with this discussion and i could not find any era correct information. the information makes sense to me but each of you reading this will do your own interpretation.

http://wiki.eqemulator.org/p?Spells_Mechanics

"
ROOT

SE_Root (99)
​Root has an innate chance to break every buff tick.
There is a 70% chance to trigger a resist check each tick.
If resist check fails root will fade.
There is a lower bounds 6% chance per tick of root breaking no matter what. (If you have 0% chance to resist the spell due to Tash/Green con)
Root has an innate chance to break every time a direct damage spell is applied
​There is an approximately 70% chance of root breaking from a DD spell if target is greater than your level, equal to your level or (1) level less than you.
There is an approximately 55% chance of root breaking from a DD spell if the target is (2) levels less then you.
There is an approximately 42% chance of root breaking from a DD spell if target is between (3) and (20) levels less then you.
There is an approximately 14% chance of root breaking from a DD spell if target is (20) levels less then you.
SE_RootBreakChance (244) 'Visicid Roots AA' Reduces the baseline root break chance (ie 70%) by the effect value.
When a root is cast by a player with this effect the reduced root break chance is applied directly to the root.
The benefit is therefore given to any player casting on that NPC with the root. (opposed to only the caster of the root).
When multiple roots are applied to the same target the root in the first slot is always removed first from spell damage.
Only roots from determinental spells can be broken by direct damage spells. "

[Buellen]

Sorry for all this info but:


found druid root changes:

------------------------------
April 10, 2000
------------------------------

***Patch Day***

The following is a list of changes that were implemented on the Live
EverQuest servers today:

*Spells*
- You will now receive a message when attempting to mesmerize a
creature that is immune to that type of spell.
- You can now right-click-and-hold on bard songs to determine what
instrument skill is used by the spell.
- Dyn's Dizzying Draught has had its casting time lowered
significantly.
:confused:


Here is the discussion about druid spell stacking and Druid root fix.


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.games.everquest/1BNQOI6_gxc



Ok I should really sleep now hope this was helpfull

[Buellen]

Sorry for all this info but:


found druid root changes:

------------------------------
April 10, 2000
------------------------------

***Patch Day***

The following is a list of changes that were implemented on the Live
EverQuest servers today:

*Spells*

- Corrected a bug in the Druid root + damage spells (Enveloping roots
series) that caused the spell's damage to have a chance of breaking the
spell. They work much better now.

Here is the discussion about druid spell stacking and Druid root fix.


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.games.everquest/1BNQOI6_gxc



Ok I should really sleep now hope this was helpfull

[Jimjam]

Could someone please explain why root breaks all the time? I'm talking about casting it on blues, and it breaks 2 seconds later. This sort of defeats the purpose of having a root spell at all...

Nukes break roots.

Also, root is the most OP spell in the game. A chance for random early breaks is just balance, amirite?

A J-Staff for tash can help root approach it's full duration more often.

Don't forget, the bigger the level difference, the greater the effect on the chances of early root break (low cons almost always last full duration, high cons rarely last long if they last at all).

If you want to solo hill giants you should have rolled a ranger and started kiting them at level 12.

Pewpew!

[kjs86z]

And it just broke 8 times on a hill giant in NK, forcing me to gate...a white con, which I was only able to get to 70% health because root kept breaking...this is not right.

/facepalm


Stick to XP green / easy blue for a while. You'll have a far less stressful experience and the levels will come just the same.

[Utmost]

Many theory on the over there. Could be majic or cactus but can’t be sure.

[skarlorn]

Could be majic or cactus but can’t be sure.

god blss

[1203jjt]

Played a druid during live 1997 and on.


was my understanding a mob that was rooted could break root upon taking direct damage(melee / spell/ability)

Why druid kind of sucked due to most of the druid root line having a dd component. You would cast root mob become root then damage was applied and since you did direct damage could break root right away. DOTS that did no direct damage would not break root this way.

so much uproar from druid complaining led to Sony changes the druid spell lines. They where changed so that initial DD component of root had a reduced or no chance to break the root I do not remember exact changes.

How P1999 goes about this implementing this effect i do not know. In my time here on p1999 I have seen other classes root behave like i remember them from live in so far that if you beat on the mob and or direct damage them while it is rooted they tend have root break.

Hope this helps or whatever 8)

general info on root roting tactic but desribes my memories of playing druid during live :

http://everquest.wikia.com/wiki/Root_rotting

Thank you for a response with something other than trolling. That definitely helps, and makes me wonder if P99 is under the old system of root?

[1203jjt]

Sorry for all this info but:


found druid root changes:

------------------------------
April 10, 2000
------------------------------

***Patch Day***

The following is a list of changes that were implemented on the Live
EverQuest servers today:

*Spells*

- Corrected a bug in the Druid root + damage spells (Enveloping roots
series) that caused the spell's damage to have a chance of breaking the
spell. They work much better now.

Here is the discussion about druid spell stacking and Druid root fix.


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.games.everquest/1BNQOI6_gxc



Ok I should really sleep now hope this was helpfull

I may just be extremely unlucky, but this sounds like what I'm talking about. I root a mob, even a blue con, and then before I even have a chance to cast a dot or nuke, the root has already broken. It wasn't resisted, but it's basically like it was resisted because the mob momentarily paused in it's movement, and then continued. Yesterday in a different Kunark zone it was equally bad (FoB), but in an old-world dungeon it worked better. In both zones I was fighting blue mobs.

[fastboy21]

I may just be extremely unlucky, but this sounds like what I'm talking about. I root a mob, even a blue con, and then before I even have a chance to cast a dot or nuke, the root has already broken. It wasn't resisted, but it's basically like it was resisted because the mob momentarily paused in it's movement, and then continued. Yesterday in a different Kunark zone it was equally bad (FoB), but in an old-world dungeon it worked better. In both zones I was fighting blue mobs.

The server tick is not related to when your root lands. Every six seconds, zone/server wide, the game checks every rooted mob. This means that the first check can be almost instantly after you land root or almost 6 seconds after you land root.

The result is the chance to get the "instant" root break even though the spell wasn't resisted.

In all honesty, if you really feel like the resist rate is off what you need to do is parse it and share the data. I wouldn't be surprised if it has never been tested at lower levels, where there is actually a good chance that the formula is off from where it should be. The devs most certainly HAVE adjusted resists and root break chances multiple times on p99 (independent of the live patch notes) in their effort to fine tune it. It isn't perfect. It is only an approximation of what they think it should be from the era. There is a good chance that when they tested it they didn't look closely at lower lvl resist rates compared to max level testing, where it is actually pretty good.

The anecdotal "my root seems to break all the time" doesn't really help the folks who write the scripts.

Also as a side mention, the "blue"ness of the mob isn't the factor. Its the level difference. A mob that is only one level below you will be blue, but should resist/break root much more than a mob that is 5 levels below you (and still blue) . Also, as folks have mentioned there are some mobs which are just notoriously MR.

Also, Druid is one of the few casters I have never played on p99. I have no idea if the DD on the root is currently working as intended for the time line for a chance to break a root. The patch notes above do seem to indicate that at one time the DD on root did have a chance to break the unresisted root...but that it was changed at some time during classic to not have that chance. Druid experts?

[NegaStoat]

My level 24 ranger was strolling over to the outpost in Firiona Vie from Lake of Ill omen and I picked up a Pirate that saw through my invis and chased me to the guards.

http://wiki.project1999.com/A_Pirate

The guards didn't care. None of the NPC's in Firiona Vie cared. Out of desperation I rooted it. The root stuck, even though it was a red con, so I ran and sat to camp out. The duration didn't cut the mustard and it was on me again. After using more mana and several low duration attempts, I was on my last attempt and it stuck. I diagonal straffed and jumped to gain distance and camped. I faded out with about 2 full seconds to spare. So After close to 6 attempts, I did get a full 30 second duration root which saved me.

From my experience on Brell Serilis back on classic, root would rarely land on a red con target, much less for full duration. I found it odd that it was landing as much as it did on the Pirate, even though the durations were minimal for nearly all of them. For what it's worth, snare refused to land on the rooted target at all.

[Raavak]

For what it's worth, snare refused to land on the rooted target at all.It's coded that way. Snare before root works.

[kaev]

It's coded that way. Snare before root works.

Um, no. I snare rooted targets all the time (my lazy 56 druid rotting geonids in WL), it works very well thank you. His snare vs root results were just the p99 rng.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Wahhh wahhhh wahhhhhhhhhh!

Are you new to EQ? Dude, root would be one of the most OP spells in the game if it didn’t have a chance to wear off early, you serious right now?

[skarlorn]

a funnier title would be

"why does root stuck?"

smdh

[Buellen]

Also, Druid is one of the few casters I have never played on p99. I have no idea if the DD on the root is currently working as intended for the time line for a chance to break a root. The patch notes above do seem to indicate that at one time the DD on root did have a chance to break the unresisted root...but that it was changed at some time during classic to not have that chance. Druid experts?

Since Velious Release Dec 5 2000 The patch notes i posted should already be implemented here on project 1999. They were from april 2000. I to have not played a druid much recently so i can not talk to the current state here of their roots.


During my time of playing a druid live Root breaks on successful landing of spell where very common, But if the root landed and held was very handy to drop them dots and med till it broke. I always thought i was just part of how druid where balanced vs other classes.

[fastboy21]

Since Velious Release Dec 5 2000 The patch notes i posted should already be implemented here on project 1999. They were from april 2000. I to have not played a druid much recently so i can not talk to the current state here of their roots.

Yes. My question is was it ever changed here or was it always working this way here?

[Buellen]

fastboy21


Not sure to be honest. I will see if i can find past notes for p1999 saying druid root where changed.

Checked all the way back to 2012 patch notes for P1999:

No where could i find the information form april 2000 patch with druid root spell line change in live.


for completeness sake i did find these: the june 24th patches are spell scaling related.

January 2001 - Era has been enabled:

Root and Movement Speed type effects will now stack.



Patch Notes: Tuesday, June 24th, 2014

Enveloping Roots updated max1
Ensnaring Roots updated max1
Engulfing Roots updated max1

[wagorf]

root was never reliable, even back in the classic days 1998/1999. on top of that it never works well with mobs close to your level

nothing wrong with this, cheap spell what do u expect?

[commongood]

I'm gonna bandwagon this thread and ask a root-related question:

Does the level of the root spell influence the odds of having it break upon direct damage?

So if I have a mob rooted and I then cast a nuke. Will the chances of that nuke breaking my root increase if it's the lowest lvl Root compared to if it's, say, Paralyzing Earth? Or will both of those roots have an equal risk of breaking upon a nuke landing?

[Jimjam]

I'm gonna bandwagon this thread and ask a root-related question:

Does the level of the root spell influence the odds of having it break upon direct damage?

So if I have a mob rooted and I then cast a nuke. Will the chances of that nuke breaking my root increase if it's the lowest lvl Root compared to if it's, say, Paralyzing Earth? Or will both of those roots have an equal risk of breaking upon a nuke landing?

For most roots it is the level of caster,not spell, that matters. Perhaps some higher level roots may have a resist mod on though?

[fadetree]

Root can be annoying at low levels, very random. As you get higher spell levels in it it gets much better. You just have to be ready to recast, and always snare first. As was said, it would be totally OP if it had a fixed duration, even if it still had the initial resist check.
Speaking of resists, and for mobs that are below your level, any kind of MR debuff helps a LOT. For higher mobs it's pretty much just RNG and you can bet it's not going to work well. If I have to escape I usually just snare and run really far away to camp.
This is just EQ...nothing is safe.