Intentional Manipulation of EC Market

[Brocode]

I d like to invoke the EC Comission here to investigate, really easy to spot those who manipulate, random char in which spam a High Value item undervalue for a few times and suddenly offline or the otherway around Overprice an items that its value is way less, so Wiki/Ahungry registers so fool people thinking its worth.

For those that dont know the prices on wiki doesnt mean its a closed deal, its just the prices that are logged from time to time from someone auctioning, doesnt mean the guy sold that item, just that they believe he did because he did so many auctions at that said item, so if i auction constantly an item, from time to time i ll appear at the item wiki list creating a false or true idea of a seller/sold item.

Thats pretty much how they manipulated Holgresh Elder Beads from 100k to 400k, so many auctions that its creates an illusion that the item suddenly is being sold for alot more, also creating an idea that its going more and more up, making some people buying for higher prices thinking its gonna grow even more, as an example those manipulations are pretty common with midia/false news on Cryptocurrency.

That said i know nobody will care or control it, but sucks to see it happen. I guess thats why the auctions page that controlled the real prices got attacked so the real "traders" could keep manipulating the market.

[fastboy21]

I d like to invoke the EC Comission here to investigate, really easy to spot those who manipulate, random char in which spam a High Value item undervalue for a few times and suddenly offline or the otherway around Overprice an items that its value is way less, so Wiki/Ahungry registers so fool people thinking its worth.

For those that dont know the prices on wiki doesnt mean its a closed deal, its just the prices that are logged from time to time from someone auctioning, doesnt mean the guy sold that item, just that they believe he did because he did so many auctions at that said item, so if i auction constantly an item, from time to time i ll appear at the item wiki list creating a false or true idea of a seller/sold item.

Thats pretty much how they manipulated Holgresh Elder Beads from 100k to 400k, so many auctions that its creates an illusion that the item suddenly is being sold for alot more, also creating an idea that its going more and more up, making some people buying for higher prices thinking its gonna grow even more, as an example those manipulations are pretty common with midia/false news on Cryptocurrency.

That said i know nobody will care or control it, but sucks to see it happen. I guess thats why the auctions page that controlled the real prices got attacked so the real "traders" could keep manipulating the market.

In part, yes. As a total explanation not even close.

Your own example of the HEBs doesn't hold water. There are many more factors going on here than just a few folks intentionally auctioning high prices for them to create an over evaluation from a buyer.

You are a on a static server, near the end of the last content to be released. There are some items at this point (like HEBs) which have an extremely high utility and their supply only decreases (no more drop, some folks won't sell, some folks quit without passing them on, etc.). Very few folks are interested in selling an item that they really enjoy and get a lot of utility out of when they know that the price is only going to continue going up. Same with any nerfed item that folks actually use.

What you are calling manipulating the market is really more like trickery, deception, border line scamming. Unless someone is actually buying all the HEBs and releasing them slowly at higher prices (dialing back quantity on the market, dialing up price on the market). One is just playing with smoke and mirrors (and hoping a sucker comes along) the other is actually changing the market by deliberate buying and selling.

Neither one, btw, is actually against the rules.

[Skew]

I still have no idea where the demand for them comes from especially at >300k.
The half dozen pulling monks on the server have them. And where else do you use them apart from HoT and Kael ? Whats everyone else want them for - To proc hammer off to OT?

[Tupakk]

I still have no idea where the demand for them comes from especially at >300k.
The half dozen pulling monks on the server have them. And where else do you use them apart from HoT and Kael ? Whats everyone else want them for - To proc hammer off to OT?

Tell you don’t play a monk. There is soooooo much you can do outside of tov and kael.

As far as the price gap there was ample time to buy them. They went from 20k to 60-80k before the patch to 100-125 after. A few months later it went up to 250 Halloween I think. Then after the new year to 300 to now prices.

So it’s not like it just immediately happened. If you are new to the server trying to get beads that does suck but if you’ve been around the block and back we’ll then you just were EQing right.

[Brocode]

In part, yes. As a total explanation not even close.

Your own example of the HEBs doesn't hold water. There are many more factors going on here than just a few folks intentionally auctioning high prices for them to create an over evaluation from a buyer.

You are a on a static server, near the end of the last content to be released. There are some items at this point (like HEBs) which have an extremely high utility and their supply only decreases (no more drop, some folks won't sell, some folks quit without passing them on, etc.). Very few folks are interested in selling an item that they really enjoy and get a lot of utility out of when they know that the price is only going to continue going up. Same with any nerfed item that folks actually use.

What you are calling manipulating the market is really more like trickery, deception, border line scamming. Unless someone is actually buying all the HEBs and releasing them slowly at higher prices (dialing back quantity on the market, dialing up price on the market). One is just playing with smoke and mirrors (and hoping a sucker comes along) the other is actually changing the market by deliberate buying and selling.

Neither one, btw, is actually against the rules.

i bet theres a lot more factors, i havent been in EC for long, those are some that i noticed being there last month, HEB was just an example, i have seen any items, randomly, even some that i was selling, suddenly random name takes the link announce with different price and almost instantly not online and never see that guy announce that item again, meaning the bold part.

And for sure there are naive sells/buys that is just a good deal from time to time, but not that easy to find.

[Ravager]

HEB are worth 750k. Someone said it. So now it's true. Don't question it.

[fadetree]

All people have to do is not buy it at a price they don't like. Who is really doing the manipulation, the sellers or the buyers? Both have a part.

[Skew]

Tell you don’t play a monk. There is soooooo much you can do outside of tov and kael.

As far as the price gap there was ample time to buy them. They went from 20k to 60-80k before the patch to 100-125 after. A few months later it went up to 250 Halloween I think. Then after the new year to 300 to now prices.

So it’s not like it just immediately happened. If you are new to the server trying to get beads that does suck but if you’ve been around the block and back we’ll then you just were EQing right.

Naw.

[Tupakk]

They are fun you should give em a try.

[Haghar]

Sounds clever to me.

[oqrelord]

you either dont play a monk or are playing a monk wrong if you cant find the value of HEB

they are the best item a monk can have... i've seen bad monks made to look decent because of them tbh

Whats is the difference between beads and some stalking probes?

I could see it being uber valuable if you didnt have any alternatives, but you can get a few stalking probes for a few hundred pp and recharge them for 4pp. Also, they are instant cast, which is actually better. And with monk sneak, you can recharge them anywhere.

By the time you'd have broken even with HEB and recharging probes you'd have quit the game already.

i can see a lot better uses with 3-500k then beads... but thats just me. You could buy a bard or mage epic and have a much more novel experience, rather than buying something you can already do in a similar capacity.

Root nets, stalking probes, sow pots... or am i missing something with HEB thats justifies getting them?

[xKoopa]

Whats is the difference between beads and some stalking probes?

I could see it being uber valuable if you didnt have any alternatives, but you can get a few stalking probes for a few hundred pp and recharge them for 4pp. Also, they are instant cast, which is actually better. And with monk sneak, you can recharge them anywhere.

By the time you'd have broken even with HEB and recharging probes you'd have quit the game already.

i can see a lot better uses with 3-500k then beads... but thats just me. You could buy a bard or mage epic and have a much more novel experience, rather than buying something you can already do in a similar capacity.

Root nets, stalking probes, sow pots... or am i missing something with HEB thats justifies getting them?

Just my opinion, but i like bag space. Id rather have one slot that gives eyes perma vs using 8-10 slots of probes and having to recharge constantly

[oqrelord]

Just my opinion, but i like bag space. Id rather have one slot that gives eyes perma vs using 8-10 slots of probes and having to recharge constantly

And that is very true, its definitely a quality of life improvement. But for what youre actually getting vs what youre paying its very extreme.

There is nothing you can do with a HEB that will be a game changer that you cant do already.

Im just writing to let people know that, with 3-400k you could do so much more and have more fun than buying a HEB. Its your money though, so its up to you.

But quantify lets say on avg 500p an hour that would mean almost 1000 hours spent to afford something you can already do without. Just seems like an excessively expensive purchase.

[Sage Truthbearer]

The server is 10 years old, has zero money sinks, will never wipe, and will never have another expansion. With those factors any kind of semi-useful item that is drop-restricted is going to be inflated as fuck.

[Phatez]

The server is 10 years old, has zero money sinks, will never wipe, and will never have another expansion. With those factors any kind of semi-useful item that is drop-restricted is going to be inflated as fuck.

False. 200K + a week in recharges from the top guilds is a huge money sink.

[Ravager]

And that is very true, its definitely a quality of life improvement. But for what youre actually getting vs what youre paying its very extreme.

There is nothing you can do with a HEB that will be a game changer that you cant do already.

Im just writing to let people know that, with 3-400k you could do so much more and have more fun than buying a HEB. Its your money though, so its up to you.

But quantify lets say on avg 500p an hour that would mean almost 1000 hours spent to afford something you can already do without. Just seems like an excessively expensive purchase.
Time is more valuable than plat that you're making anyway simply playing the game. Who wants to spend a half hour after every session running to a vendor?

[oqrelord]

Time is more valuable than plat that you're making anyway simply playing the game. Who wants to spend a half hour after every session running to a vendor?

I guess in summation, my advice is for anyone who is curious or is thinking about acquiring a HEB for personal use should try out stalking probes first.

That will give you an idea of whether or not the investment is worth it for you at a very low cost.

[indiscriminate_hater]

market manipulation is part of the game

[mefdinkins]

Market manipulation only works to a degree.

Patience and posting on the forums, checking EC, and checking the auction sites is prob enough to protect you.

TStaff is an example of crazy price jumps. There was speculation price would rocket when triple attack is patched in for monks. If TStaff is the BIS tradeable DPS weapon for monks then it will certainly jump in price to a degree. However, when I saw people asking 50k I tried selling for 50k for 2 months b/c it wasn't worth 50k to me. No one bit. When I finally included it in a trade it was valued below 50k. Later, when I farmed up some more money I was ready to buy for 37-39k and lo and behold, no one would sell to me. It wasn't until I started getting closer 40-43k that people would bite. So yeah things probably valued around 42-46 now a days but take your time if you want to buy or sell an item like that.

So yes, maybe some people manipulate the market but take your time in EC, check the forums, post in the forums, ask your guild. If no one is biting your price is off. If you have 100 offers immediately you're probably selling too low or offering too much. In the end it's just a game and you prob don't need a PHD in economics to make sure you're not getting ripped off.

[skarlorn]

WTS Evil Eye Lens (14 charges) now only 49.5k PST immediately this offer will NOT last

[Jimjam]

The trick is to create a high profile forum post asking if it is worth saving for a fungi when you are in fact the one with a fungi to sell.

[Sonderbeast]

HEBs are overfarmed and worth 60k on this server. Don't pay any more for them.

[Ravager]

HEBs are overfarmed and worth 60k on this server. Don't pay any more for them.
I'll pay that if you're selling.

[Lemonhead]

Wts Evil Eye Lense 19 charges. 67,178 plat 5 gold 7 silver 1 copper.

[fastboy21]

I think people are confusing the intentional nefarious manipulation of the market with just old fashioned salesmanship and speculation. The end result is the same, but one is almost a form of dishonesty and cheating.

Buying T-Staffs before the triple attack change because you think the price will jump will CAUSE the price of T-Staffs to go up. Its perfectly legit speculation...which regardless of any patch (they could have decided not to put in the patch at all) would still cause a rise in the price of T-Staffs. The market price changed due to speculation, not dishonest manipulation.

Even slightly nefarious behaviors---like advertising the change on the forums as a way to grease the wheels for the price increase---is really just good business.

Personally, as long as you don't intentionally deceive someone (like starting false auction threads for example) I don't think its an issue. I don't think the GMs can really police this stuff though...so it is a real buyer beware market.

One of the fun things about playing the p99 economy over the last 8 years has been that (unlike real life) almost all of us know the major shocks that are coming. Which items will be nerfed, removed from game, made obsolete by expansion upgrades, etc...is all pretty much solidly known information. Folks who have paid close attention to this have learned how to make a great deal of plat just banking on the right items at the right times. It still boggles my mind how anyone would not have farmed/bought at least a few HEB before the nerf.