Lull/Soothe

[Ket]

How the frikkity frak does this even work?

I played a rogue on Live. Never tanked or messed around with any casters, so I figured I'd give a Paladin a chance. Been fun so far, but I can't figure this damn line of spells out.

At first, it was my understanding that if there was a group of 3 mobs, I'd lull two, pull the 1 who is un-lulled, and be able to single pull that way. Someone then mentioned that it only lessens the aggro radius, so it wouldn't work if those 3 were all up in each others kool-aid.

Yet, yesterday when I tried it on those 3 damn Ogre Shamans in West Karana, it didn't even pretend to do anything and all 3 just ran right at me.

Someone educate me. I'm old and stupid.

[skarlorn]

Is it possible you got resisted? Critical Lull resists will aggro the mob and all the mobs with whom it shares aggro.

[Ket]

Is it possible you got resisted? Critical Lull resists will aggro the mob and all the mobs with whom it shares aggro.

Definitely did not know that.

I don't recall seeing a resist message of any kind, but I'm sure it's possible. So a critical resist draws aggro, but a normal resist doesn't? Do you get an indication of some kind when/if it resists?

[Jauna]

It does reduce the radius and if the three are close nit, patting or you pulled from another angle, you are ganna have a bad time.

[Crede]

Definitely did not know that.

I don't recall seeing a resist message of any kind, but I'm sure it's possible. So a critical resist draws aggro, but a normal resist doesn't? Do you get an indication of some kind when/if it resists?

A resist has the chance to draw aggro, it's called a critical resist when it actually does aggro. For most classes, a resist means they're coming right after you. CHA affects the chance to get crit resists.

Also, lull/soothe don't have the greatest effect on frenzy/aggro radius. You might find yourself doing much better with calm at lvl 49, which has a great duration/aggro reduction. Pacify is nice too, but it only lasts 7 ticks.

[Ket]

It does reduce the radius and if the three are close nit, patting or you pulled from another angle, you are ganna have a bad time.

Ok, so using the three ogre shamans as an example.

They're arranged in an acute triangle shape. Two are close together (A and B) and one is at the farthest point (C).

If I am standing in front of C, successfully Lull A and B without any resists, and pull C with an arrow - he should aggro without bringing A and B along with him? How large is the aggro radius when they're lulled?

If I stand on the other side in front of Ogre's A and B, and lull A and C - can I then pull B by himself, or will B aggro because he's too close? How close is too close?

Too much Gdamn math up in this bish.

[Jauna]

You lost me.

[skarlorn]

If the mob you pull paths directly over a lull'd mob, the lull'd mob will often agro. And yes, Calm is when it gits gud

[jackd104]

Ok, so using the three ogre shamans as an example.

They're arranged in an acute triangle shape. Two are close together (A and B) and one is at the farthest point (C).

If I am standing in front of C, successfully Lull A and B without any resists, and pull C with an arrow - he should aggro without bringing A and B along with him? How large is the aggro radius when they're lulled?

If I stand on the other side in front of Ogre's A and B, and lull A and C - can I then pull B by himself, or will B aggro because he's too close? How close is too close?

Too much Gdamn math up in this bish.

Yes basically you are correct. If the lull is successful you should see a message like “so and so looks ambivalent”. If not you’ll get a message that the spell was resisted. If it is resisted there is a chance agro will be drawn. In my experience with lull, radius hasn’t been an issue - if lull lands successfully the mob doesn’t agr even if close to other mobs.

[Rygar]

Yes basically you are correct. If the lull is successful you should see a message like “so and so looks ambivalent”. If not you’ll get a message that the spell was resisted. If it is resisted there is a chance agro will be drawn. In my experience with lull, radius hasn’t been an issue - if lull lands successfully the mob doesn’t agr even if close to other mobs.

I don't think you get any kind of success message with the lull lines. It was meant to be a bit obscure. I don't ever recall seeing one with my enchanter.

[Nagoya]

Using early Lull is like investing in stocks.
Only use money you truly don't need.
If your plan A is for lull to fail then by all means use it, you could be surprised :) if it's your only chance to farm a camp, change camp.

[fastboy21]

I don't think you get any kind of success message with the lull lines. It was meant to be a bit obscure. I don't ever recall seeing one with my enchanter.

When you cast there is a message. Either a resist message (you'll know its a crit resist if the mob charges at you) or the "X looks less aggressive" for lull message. Depending on your windows and filters you might not see these on your screen, but they are there in the game.

Lull line spells have three variables basically:
the max level you can effect with the spell,
the size of the reduced aggro radius,
and the duration of the lull.

Lull won't ever completely eliminate the aggro radius, so if you pull two mobs near each other or if one paths near (or over) the lulled mob it will still aggro. Due to pathing issues this usually means learning how mobs can be lulled/pulled from tight areas on a trial and error basis when you learn a new camp.

It is slightly more complicated than this if you really want to get fully into it, but that is basically what 95% of players in EQ need to know about how lull works.

Considering the camp you were at it sounds like either you got a critical resist --- maybe using a spell that can't land on mobs the level of your target even --- or they pathed near each other after the cast.

[wagorf]

There is literally zero math, and this is arguably one of the simplest mechanics in everquest to comprehend, short of auto attack.

Your lull's at low level suck. Good luck using lull or soothe for much at all.
Calm is when they become good. Godly even.

End thread.

There is a series of lull spells, ranging by level and effect. Basically as a paladin you don't have access to the good ones until high level. Also take into consideration that cha and level will contribute to spell resist chances.

[Crom]

I don't think you get any kind of success message with the lull lines. It was meant to be a bit obscure. I don't ever recall seeing one with my enchanter.

[Sun Mar 11 20:36:38 2018] You begin casting Lull.
[Sun Mar 11 20:36:40 2018] A drolvarg sentry looks less aggressive.

There was a big test of the lull lines in classic on the eqcleric site, think the result was might as well go with the lowest version if I remember correctly.

I used to have a +cha set as a dorf cleric back then in my bags for when I had to go from one end of kael to the other.

This site talked about it and ref to some old posts

http://eqclassic.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=639&p=9276

[joppykid]

I've had pretty good luck with Soothe so far. I'd say 75% success rate. I'll have to see what my CHA is, I don't think its great.

[Atmas]

So as already mentioned, critical resists will cause agro. All resists will display a resist message but you won't know it's critical unless they start running at you. Charisma is supposed to impact the success of landing a lull type spell.

The line of spells going from Lull to Pacify progressively make the agro radius of a mob smaller. None, completely eliminate agro, so take that into account when pulling mobs or lulling to run past them. Don't pull right through or run directly through mobs you lulled.

My experience from leveling my Paladin is that you will get more resists at lower levels but it isn't necessarily because of the spell you used. In general you see more resists on blue creatures at lower levels because the level disparity isn't as large between you and blue mobs as it is when you are at higher levels. Expect to get resists and be prepared to root.

People have said that higher level spells get resisted less, I don't think that is necessarily true. However, they do reduce agro radius further so take that into consideration when determining if you want to spend the extra mana for the higher level spell.

[cubiczar]

As others have said plan on running. I used lull on live back in 2000 and I've used it here and it seems like the critical resist chance is WAY too high here (200+ Cha enc here). The resist rate even seems high to me but given the high crit fail rate I'll admit I don't push my luck much.

That being said lull is fine but if the mobs are within like the height of a human distance apart you will definitely catch aggro. Might be as far as twice the height of a human. So yeah good spell when it works definitely will fail tons (critically) and if the mobs are too close to start or path too close due to the pull you will get adds

[fadetree]

I think the 'ambivalent' message os for necros undead lull. You should see 'blahblah seems less aggressive'.

[cubiczar]

So in the chart here assume that you as the 'luller' are #5 and trying to break the room that contains mobs 1,2,3,4

things to consider:

If you Crit resist off the bat they are all 4 coming regardless of anything

If you lul a front one and then crit resist a back one, most like the back one will path over the front one and agro.

So in the below situation the thing to do would be Lul #2, then #1, then #4, then #3

This way if you get off lulz on mob #1 and #2 and then crit resist on #3, only mobs #3 and #4 will come.

If you started your lul rotation with #3, then #4, then #1, then you got a crit resist on #2, most likely you would agro the door mobs and #2, #3, and #4 would all come.

So being smart about the order you lul help. General rule for me is start the furthest away and work your way forward to minimize Crit resist heart attack moments.

Generally what happens is normal resist, normal resist then critical resist. I've mostly stayed outdoors here so the room model isn't quite accurate but yeah I lull the furthest away first. Sometimes I'll get a single success and then start hitting resists. At this point though if I get one resist I'm likely to bail on it because the risk just isn't worth it given how likely the critical resist seems to be.

[Nagoya]

I've mostly stayed outdoors here so the room model isn't quite accurate

remove the walls from the picture. everything else same.

[Ket]

Appreciate the help, ya'll. I can see clearly now.

[Rygar]

Maybe I'm thinking you don't get a message that the effect wears off. Or maybe it shouldn't have a success message in classic and only have a chance to work..? To the research lab!

[Legidias]

Bard one for sure says that the target looks sad on working.

[Triiz]

If the Lull line is the same as Live and the range data on the wiki is right (the max levels are definitely wrong), Lull reduces aggro/assist radius to 15 range, and Calm reduces aggro/assist range to 5. Pacify reduces range to 1, but costs twice as much mana as Calm and has a really short duration. Calm should allow you to split most mobs in the game if it's successful.

Lull is not useless like a lot of people seem to be suggesting, it has limited uses when mobs are on top of each other but it's something you will get a feel for. Again if the wiki is right for p99, Lull reduces aggro/assist range the same amount as Harmony does.

Even if the wiki ranges aren't exact for p99, I have both an Enchanter and a Druid I feel like Lull does reduce aggro range about the same as Harmony. The big difference obviously is Lull isn't AOE, it can be resisted/crit resisted, and isn't limited to outdoors

[TheOutdoorNerd]

I always use Calm on my chanter and hardly ever get a crit resist with 255 CHA. Which is why I think you should always use a chanter to do it for your group, if you have a chanter. I've been in groups where the cleric insists on lull'ing and that doesn't make much sense to me since the crit resists roll against CHA. And also because it's bad mojo for the cleric to die, where chanters are used to dying every pull.

The whole line has a fixed duration, so no matter which one you use, lull everything quickly, and pull what you're gonna pull quickly. There's no message when it wears off. My problem used to be that I was using Pacify (which has a shorter duration) and then taking too long to get everything lull'ed, which is a bad combination.

[Kaezyr D`Shiv]

The whole line has a fixed duration, so no matter which one you use, lull everything quickly, and pull what you're gonna pull quickly. There's no message when it wears off. My problem used to be that I was using Pacify (which has a shorter duration) and then taking too long to get everything lull'ed, which is a bad combination.

Can confirm, Duration is very important, especially since there is no worn off message. If you use GINA, I recommend creating a timer for the lull durations (can cast on yourself at your current level and check log for timer, I believe it scales with levels.) I did this on my cleric and it worked out very well when I was soloing in the bottom floor of befallen.

[Splade]

There is literally zero math, and this is arguably one of the simplest mechanics in everquest to comprehend, short of auto attack.

Your lull's at low level suck. Good luck using lull or soothe for much at all.
Calm is when they become good. Godly even.

End thread.
At 50 on my chanter the level 4 soothe spell is still pretty much the only lull I use lol

[Crede]

Calm no qualm bro