Regarding the new spell file and such.

[Bubbles]

I guess they should just stop patching the server until they find something to nerf for each class.


Well, they painted a pretty broad stroke this time considering every spell caster (and hybrid) on the server probably spent an hour today re-arranging their spell book as well as making and saving spell sets. lol.

I know, it's not as horrid as book-in-the-face medding or anything, but there s a fine line between having fun on a classic server and being those freaks at Denny's at 2 am arguing over irregularities in the content and timeline of the Star Trek Universe.

I know, right clicking to hotswap spells on the go isn't 'classic' per se.. But it's just another time-sinky annoyance in a game that, at it's heart, is supposed to be fun. Not everything that happened post 1999 was Bazaar and Nexus-y. Some of it was simply just UI updates and devs going 'Jeez, this prob doesnt need to be this annoying. It's not like we're Amish here".

Something as simple as soul-binding Plane of Sky keys would shave hours off a raid up there, and it's certainly not like the use of necros and wizards and clerics to make a chain is exactly rocket science or adds anything to the experience beyond a time sink. It's not like it's a matter of talent or skill, just an added sink in the name of "classic-ness".. It's there and i can't think of a real reason beyond sanity (something we all lack, btw heh) that the sky daisy chain is being re-lived 10+ years later, but yet it is!

I know, I know.. go play on EZ or whatever. Anytime someone steps up and says 'hey, does this actualy have to be *this* annoying 10 years later? ppl rage at ya like you're at the park on a sunday jogging and stop to tell one of the guys beating on each other with a nerf sword that his watch is showing, or his kilt is a couple centuries off from the rest of his motif.

We're not bad people (well, outside of RnF), we don't deserved to be punished. We appreciate the insane amount of research and waybacking and coding that go into making this the premire classic spot around. Just please, guys, keep in mind there's a ton of us that *have* been here since the Classic beta and it's the fun factor that keeps us coming back and signing up for more.

I'm not asking anyone to change anything, just to remember it's always been a mix of striving for the classic element with newer UIs in the first place that's kept this place truckin along. I'd be curious to see if everyone got their 'wish' and the only option was 'tinybox in window' 640x480 resolution' and book in face medding that we'd be where we are today. And i get that Rogean and Nil would still be tinkering with this place even if no one came to play at all, but i'm sure there's a certain satisfaction they also get from seeing high peak numbers, legend status, and tallying up all the missed work days, wrecked relationships, and godknowswhatelse their polarizing force has wreaked upon our lives.

Thank you. Keep it Real. But not 'too' Real. :)

[Ravendawn]

I was wondering what happened to the contextual spell menu... i have been trying to fix it without luck.

[regatta]

You can still save spell sets. I'm a cleric so what I've done is made spell sets for whatever situation I may encounter. A spell set for group healing, spell set for raid buffing, spell set for resist buffing, spell set for solo'ing (both undead and live mobs). It's still almost just as easy as it was. No reason to make reasons why it should be like it was when it's not going to change back. Just adapt-and-overcome.

[Noselacri]

Yeah. I don't like that. It had no real effect on gameplay, but it helped immensely and was just an UI thing. As a laptop player using a touchpad (yeah, say what you want, I do better than average), playing a caster just became nearly impossible. Constantly sifting through 75+ spells is not appealing. Spell sets don't work with the classic UI.

[Leokaiser]

I agree with the sentament. I'm sure everyone has a list of features (or lack-there-of) which annoyed the hell out of them in classic (and probably still do today); these things were put up with because they didn't detract from the game so much to make the experience as a whole unenjoyable.

Thing is, this list will be different for everyone. For some it will be the spell book, for others hybrid penalties, corpse runs or the lack of parity between melee and casters. I'm sure there are even a few out there who think PoK was the best thing to happen to EQ. No one is right or wrong as these issues are a matter of preference. How then does someone running a server like this choose which changes (improvements or otherwise) need to be reverted to keep it feeling classic?

Personally I would like to have seen the dev's take classic and improve on it, but as noted, what consitutes an improvement is subjective. I guess by following history as closely as possible everyone knows what they are in for (for the most part), even if it's not fun for everyone, or even the majority (the majority on one subject will be the minority on another).

[Daldaen]

Well if the desire to stay classic is strong enough, /rewind and /hidecorpses looted shouldn't function here. Nor should you be able to ajust the gamma so that playing a human without a torch isn't like being a blind person at night.

There are plenty of annoyances EQ got rid of over the years, some that people here would hate to see get fixed. Some that you would Q_Q about leaving (like being able to med sub 35 without being blind).

Idk, things like requiring a Druid to be in a dungeon to cast their port spells in kunark, is a bug that I don't want to see go live but I bet it will because it is "classic".

[Bubbles]

You can still save spell sets. I'm a cleric so what I've done is made spell sets for whatever situation I may encounter. A spell set for group healing, spell set for raid buffing, spell set for resist buffing, spell set for solo'ing (both undead and live mobs). It's still almost just as easy as it was. No reason to make reasons why it should be like it was when it's not going to change back. Just adapt-and-overcome.

Yeah i play a necro and a cleric.

The cleric is the easy one to set up, since you're almost always going to have 2-3 heals up, two DAs and a couple slots that are fluid.. Or you're on the raid buff set, or the typical root-n-nuke soloing set. about our only annoyance there is swapping in some stuns, blinds, and dispells based on where we are raiding. Plus we can always hit DA and have 18 seconds to find a root or gate or nuke or whatever in our spell book when we are being beaten on.

A class like shaman, while they'll have to pull their hair out getting their spell book tidy, is going to have a long, long list of buff sets that'll be less-than-joyous to put together.

Like Enchanter, Necros are the jack-of-all-trades class that is most affected by this, as we probably experience far more 'on the fly' spells swaps compared to the more traditional priest and nuker classes. I'm sure everyone that has played EQ has laughed at a necro or enchanter in a bad spot who's had to mem gate on the fly. At least the necro can do it between feigns. :)

[Droxx]

You can still make/change/load spell sets. Its just not as easy as it was.

[Glorfinrod]

Is there a way to save/load spell sets with a text command? The velious style UI doesn't have the book button.

[nilbog]

Is there a way to save/load spell sets with a text command? The velious style UI doesn't have the book button.

Classically, there was no book button. So by default, that is how it appears.

However, I believe Savok included the spell bar WITH the spellbook as an optional piece of Velious UI extras. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11949

Hope that helps.

[Autotune]

someone should monkey around and re-fix it. Has to be some way to bypass it.


other than that, i guess you can just have 50 saved partial spell sets and 10 full spell sets and just on the fly mix and go if you had to.

[Ravendawn]

So it would be safe to assume the contextual menu for spells is gone for good?

[Messianic]

Honestly, I have no clue what you guys are referring to and I assume you were able to mem/unmem entire spell sets with macros or some other functionality...

But I've always arranged my spellbook in a way where I could drop and mem whatever I needed asap. Of course, the highest caster i've ever played is a wizard, so situational memming is really just stuns, AEs, gates, evacs, and lower level DD.

But my spellbooks are usually very well organized anyhow, so...

[Estu]

Yeah, maybe I'm some sort of troglodyte but I never used spell sets or contextual menus; I just organized my spellbook whenever I got new spells. I know where everything is and can mem what I need to very quickly (and as a shaman, I'm changing spells a lot). Maybe not as quickly as someone with a macro, but just as quickly as someone using a context menu. I wasn't even aware of context menus or spell sets until I read about them on this forum. I see where you guys are coming from, though, and why it's maybe not the most necessary of changes to make.

[Ravendawn]

Ya it wasnt game breaking but as a bard... it made the game more enjoyable. Now it just means i need like 50 spell sets in stead of a couple. For me, it was one of those things that should have always been there as it did not take away from game play and only removed a "Pain in the ass" factor.

I am just wondering if it was meant to be removed or was a result of something unforseen. Managing your spell book was one of those tedious tasks which did not add anything to the game. Maps can be game breaking, this was just an annoyance.

[Autotune]

Ya it wasnt game breaking but as a bard... it made the game more enjoyable. Now it just means i need like 50 spell sets in stead of a couple. For me, it was one of those things that should have always been there as it did not take away from game play and only removed a "Pain in the ass" factor.

I am just wondering if it was meant to be removed or was a result of something unforseen. Managing your spell book was one of those tedious tasks which did not add anything to the game. Maps can be game breaking, this was just an annoyance.

it was meant to be taken away.

also, idk how anyone in their right mind could play a bard without this, and melody... crazy ass bastards.

[rovaira]

Nevermind, I just found the spells files. The main information on how to update your spells file are on the maing page project1999.org. It's the eqchanges file in the setup guide that needed updated on mine, and that's because I play sometimes on other servers.

[Noselacri]

Ugh, I'll have to go and buy a mouse now. It's not doable with a touchpad as an enchanter anymore, having to swap out 2-3 spells mid-combat every fight when charm-killing. I was so proud of being a touchpad player, too :(

[Ralexia]

So it would be safe to assume the contextual menu for spells is gone for good?

If we complain loud enough, it might change.

Lets go people!

[Mcbard]

it was meant to be taken away.

also, idk how anyone in their right mind could play a bard without this, and melody... crazy ass bastards.

The smart ones read that this was coming a month in advance and made spell sets/organized their book accordingly. ;)

Thankfully we only have like 5 pages of songs at the moment too, so that's nice!

[Bruno]

Just tell your group you couldn't find the spell.

[guineapig]

Honestly we did get a ton of advanced warning and I have always rotated my spellbook to have the first handful of pages be the spells I could ever need and obsolete spells have gone to the back pages.

There is no class in the game that will ever need quick access to more than roughly 6 pages of spells. Iv'e played every caster class now for long enough to be able to state this as fact.

And as previously stated, 10 full spells sets to memorize is huge when compared to not having anything of the sort available back in classic.

[JayDee]

I dread this change

[dredge]

.

[Toehammer]

I know, right clicking to hotswap spells on the go isn't 'classic' per se.. But it's just another time-sinky annoyance in a game that, at it's heart, is supposed to be fun. Not everything that happened post 1999 was Bazaar and Nexus-y. Some of it was simply just UI updates and devs going 'Jeez, this prob doesnt need to be this annoying. It's not like we're Amish here".

...

Thank you. Keep it Real. But not 'too' Real. :)

Good post Miley. I have been trying to elucidate this logic to people for a while. Making the game more fun while keeping it non-WoWlike or Luclin-like is doable with some of the AWESOME changes Sony instituted. Purple item linking text makes selling/buying smoother, spellsets make things smoother, improved velious UI makes things smoother. When I started EQ in 1998 beta, I was slightly annoyed at the choppiness to gameplay/interface, however the game was so good I was hooked. In the original Diablo, you had to click the mouse incessantly to kill monsters, but in Diablo 2 you could just hold down the mouse button. Maybe the most prudent change in video game history, hehe. (although now and then I miss the tap-tap-tap-splurt of killing an enemy)

I think some people on this server get overly nostalgiac for EQ. People don't wanna look like a newbie poser; "dude their first album was the only good one" or "staring at the spellbook is so classic i love it". However the ones have been around since the very beginning can recognize some of the great changes. Spellsets are at the TOP of the list. Right-click spell list is cool too (although since spellsets are still around I am not really too mad).

so can someone explain how you make a spell set and load it please?

I assume its like "/load spell set buffs " or something but what are the commands to save and load please?

To make it just right-click on the little book above your 8 spell hotbuttons and save spell set, and it will save the spell set as you name it with the current 8 spells you have out. I don't know of any "/blahblah" type command to save a spell set. However "/memspellset X" will memorize the spellset you named X. THat you can make a hotkey for... hotbutton bank 5 is all 10 of my spellsets... as a shaman this I cannot live without, especially on raids, if people be wanting buffs!

i guess you can just have 50 saved partial spell sets and 10 full spell sets and just on the fly mix and go if you had to.

WHAT? partial spell sets? EXPLAIN MORE!

[Autotune]

Good post Miley. I have been trying to elucidate this logic to people for a while. Making the game more fun while keeping it non-WoWlike or Luclin-like is doable with some of the AWESOME changes Sony instituted. Purple item linking text makes selling/buying smoother, spellsets make things smoother, improved velious UI makes things smoother. When I started EQ in 1998 beta, I was slightly annoyed at the choppiness to gameplay/interface, however the game was so good I was hooked. In the original Diablo, you had to click the mouse incessantly to kill monsters, but in Diablo 2 you could just hold down the mouse button. Maybe the most prudent change in video game history, hehe. (although now and then I miss the tap-tap-tap-splurt of killing an enemy)

I think some people on this server get overly nostalgiac for EQ. People don't wanna look like a newbie poser; "dude their first album was the only good one" or "staring at the spellbook is so classic i love it". However the ones have been around since the very beginning can recognize some of the great changes. Spellsets are at the TOP of the list. Right-click spell list is cool too (although since spellsets are still around I am not really too mad).



To make it just right-click on the little book above your 8 spell hotbuttons and save spell set, and it will save the spell set as you name it with the current 8 spells you have out. I don't know of any "/blahblah" type command to save a spell set. However "/memspellset X" will memorize the spellset you named X. THat you can make a hotkey for... hotbutton bank 5 is all 10 of my spellsets... as a shaman this I cannot live without, especially on raids, if people be wanting buffs!



WHAT? partial spell sets? EXPLAIN MORE!


say your mem'd spells looks like this

1) heal
2) heal over time
3) Direct Dmg1
4) Direct Dmg2
5) Snare
6) Gate
7) Buff1
8) Utility1

so you are on the fly and would really like to change your Direct dmg1 and direct dmg 2 spells to dmg/time1 and dmg/time2 spells. You also want to be able to switch back to those WITHOUT having to remem all your spells.

well you do this. You clear all you spell gems and make them empty. then you mem spell sets like this.

1)
2)
3) Dmg/time1
4) Dmg/time2
5)
6)
7)

1)
2)
3) Direct dmg1
4) Direct dmg1
5)
6)
7)
8)

now by saving these spell sets like this you can swap out spells in those slots while leaving spells that are memmed in the empty spots. Basically allowing you to do the same ability as right clicking to change spell files without having to worry about sitting down to mem all 8 spell slots. Reducing time, and just in case* you get hit before memming, you don't lose all of your spells.

Edit: This is what I meant by mixing partials on the fly. Any spell gem slot that is left empty when a spell set is saved will not be overwritten/erased when you load it. basically all current mem'd spells will stay the same unless there is a spell being loaded into that slot.
hope that explains it.

[Randy]

Is there a way to save/load spell sets with a text command? The velious style UI doesn't have the book button.

You can copy the spell bar file (EQUI_CastSpellWnd.xml) from the default UI into the Velious style one and its basically the same as the normal velious bar but with the book button added at the bottom. That's what I did.

As far as the change... as soon as I stop trying to right click an empty spell slot to add a spell I'll be fine with it.

[Chrushev]

honestly i didnt even know about this. I always clicked spell in the book and on the bar like I did when i played on Live a decade ago....

[chuck norris]

This change was one of the worst decisions made thus far. Like many have stated it's impossible to bring this sever back to what it was like in 1999 and even if you could nobody wants to stare at a 640x480 spellbook for 35 levels.. People are here for the content of the world itself and to have fun with other people, not silly ui nostalgia. We came back because live was too big and empty and many of us didn't get to experience enough of EQ back in it's prime. I can remember when they did ui or gameplay updates I never thought "that was a bad idea." Even live UI right now is good it's all the new world content that killed it.

Many more people can appreciate that the devs will leave in some great ui changes while we get to experience classic content.

Lets take a small look at some of the things that are still here and some that are gone and see what the benefit of removing them is for the players.

/autofire - removed - benefit: now rangers can't be super OP with the awesome bows that are available, instead we can work with the CD bug that will reset your button CD if you hit it too fast.

Right click spell listing - removed - benefit: ?? we're closer to staring at the book for 35 levels but without killing the entire population.

Detrimental spells wearing off message - implemented - not 99 - benefit: self explanatory. great update

Pet buff window/buff wearing off message - removed - benefit:none Now without the spell explinations we just get to guess timers on every beneficial spell cast on any npc.

/melody - removed - benefit: ? 6 second durations are awesome to have to spam

new merchant windows- implimented -not 99 - benefit: players can arrange wares by name, price, or quantity. Great feature

There are many many more features to go through but the principle is the same. The devs keep removing good things about the game trying to get closer to classic to what end? We will (hopefully) never get back to that point, and if we did; it's my personal opinion that the server would be worse off for it. We aren't going to get more people here because the UI sucks more like classic. Furthermore there are many updates that can be "fixed" but were left in the game because it just makes it better and even the devs see that.

/rant off

disclaimer: I appreciate all work the devs/gm's do and am in no way discrediting them, only providing constructive criticism. lolz

[zianlo1]

This is along the same lines as having the compass or even newbie area maps. It doesnt affect gameplay at all, its just a nicety to have.

Also, who are the dumbasses who add tags to these threads??? Most of them are stupid as shit.

[Humerox]

usually I'm pretty hardcore on "classiquese".

however...I gotta go wit bubbles on this one.

:D

[runlvlzero]

screw it i love not being able to PBAoE scarbs in EC according to the devs (super sarcasim because if they were serious about serious business they'd recode mob run speed from the ground up)... but not being able to right click spell mem is even better and a great substitute for changing core game mechanics that really need to be fixed.

[Toehammer]

say your mem'd spells looks like this

1) heal
2) heal over time
3) Direct Dmg1
4) Direct Dmg2
5) Snare
6) Gate
7) Buff1
8) Utility1

so you are on the fly and would really like to change your Direct dmg1 and direct dmg 2 spells to dmg/time1 and dmg/time2 spells. You also want to be able to switch back to those WITHOUT having to remem all your spells.

well you do this. You clear all you spell gems and make them empty. then you mem spell sets like this.

1)
2)
3) Dmg/time1
4) Dmg/time2
5)
6)
7)

1)
2)
3) Direct dmg1
4) Direct dmg1
5)
6)
7)
8)

now by saving these spell sets like this you can swap out spells in those slots while leaving spells that are memmed in the empty spots. Basically allowing you to do the same ability as right clicking to change spell files without having to worry about sitting down to mem all 8 spell slots. Reducing time, and just in case* you get hit before memming, you don't lose all of your spells.

Edit: This is what I meant by mixing partials on the fly. Any spell gem slot that is left empty when a spell set is saved will not be overwritten/erased when you load it. basically all current mem'd spells will stay the same unless there is a spell being loaded into that slot.
hope that explains it.

ahh yes, I already do this. I guess I was more thrown off by the number 50 you gave. I have pretty much 6 full spell sets and 4 partials... how do I get 50? lol

It always says that I cannot have more than 10 spell sets

[Messianic]

screw it i love not being able to PBAoE scarbs in EC according to the devs (super sarcasim because if they were serious about serious business they'd recode mob run speed from the ground up)... but not being able to right click spell mem is even better and a great substitute for changing core game mechanics that really need to be fixed.

I love whiney, presumptuous idiots who insult people who provide a free service as "not doing it right."

Don't reproduce.

[Weezard]

I would just love to hear the reasoning behind removing the contextual spell menus. It just boggles my mind. Why remove it? Please don't respond with "it's not classic." You know that's an illogical response considering you left spellsets in, along with item linking, classic UIs, compasses, newbie zone maps, etc.

What was the point of this removal, seriously? Were you just bored and felt like riling up the casters? Is this some backhanded slap at overpowered pet classes (not me, I play a wiz)? I just don't get it. You had it in for so long, let people get accustomed to it, and then remove it to achieve what exactly?

I understand that this is your sandbox and we're all here enjoying the fact that you let us play in it, but don't whip sand in our eyes for no reason. I love this server, and love the fact that it's available and you guys work on it, but changes like this are just annoyances that seem to be made with zero logic behind them other than to incite some people.

Do us all a favor, including yourselves so you can stop dealing with threads like this, and change it back. Let's focus on content, the driving force behind this game, and let petty UI stuff alone.

[Rael]

you left spellsets in, along with item linking, classic UIs, compasses, newbie zone maps, etc.

Those things are all hard coded into the game client, I'm sure they would remove them if they could. That said, I also think that removing right click->mem spells was a terrible idea.

[nilbog]

I would just love to hear the reasoning behind removing the contextual spell menus. It just boggles my mind. Why remove it? Please don't respond with "it's not classic." You know that's an illogical response considering you left spellsets in, along with item linking, classic UIs, compasses, newbie zone maps, etc.

What was the point of this removal, seriously? Were you just bored and felt like riling up the casters? Is this some backhanded slap at overpowered pet classes (not me, I play a wiz)? I just don't get it. You had it in for so long, let people get accustomed to it, and then remove it to achieve what exactly?

I understand that this is your sandbox and we're all here enjoying the fact that you let us play in it, but don't whip sand in our eyes for no reason. I love this server, and love the fact that it's available and you guys work on it, but changes like this are just annoyances that seem to be made with zero logic behind them other than to incite some people.

Do us all a favor, including yourselves so you can stop dealing with threads like this, and change it back. Let's focus on content, the driving force behind this game, and let petty UI stuff alone.

Hello, I understand you do not know what the client controls. It controls such things as the compass, newbie zone maps, etc. Obviously we didn't 'leave these in'. The client says you can have them, and how they work, so they work. So, you might want to look into what is illogical about saying non-classic, thanks.

If I had to guess.. the spell menus weren't removed on purpose. Probably a byproduct of the massive spells change done. Haven't seen that assumption posed yet.

[runlvlzero]

I love whiney, presumptuous idiots who insult people who provide a free service as "not doing it right."

Don't reproduce.

plz bannhammer us both messianic is the jesus love of all that is holy and righteous

Messianic you have no idea what your doing you just log on here to look for easy to critizize posts... was i nice consise and assertive no, and i don't feel like being so

but is my logic sound? yap

am i gonna argue it with you ... newp at least i didnt resort to name calling. "idiots"

never said the devs were idiots lol

[Messianic]

whip sand in our eyes for no reason.

It may suck to not have that functionality, but it can hardly be called "whipping sand in your eyes." It's more like removing your favorite truck from the sandbox. They aren't harming you at all - you just don't have access to a certain functionality you once enjoyed.

Don't dramatize this beyond what it actually is.

[nilbog]

screw it i love not being able to PBAoE scarbs in EC according to the devs (super sarcasim because if they were serious about serious business they'd recode mob run speed from the ground up)... but not being able to right click spell mem is even better and a great substitute for changing core game mechanics that really need to be fixed.

Yo brodog, you got that new code for us? Does it have anything to do with spells? That's right, this isn't a thread about runspeed dawg.

[Messianic]

Messianic you have no idea what your doing you just log on here to look for easy to critizize posts

Apparently yours fit the bill.

was i nice consise and assertive no, and i don't feel like being so

Then don't expect me to be when I respond to your nonsense.

but is my logic sound? yap

1) I can't PBAoE scarabs in EC - therefore, the devs aren't doing it right

That's some sound logic there.

I'm curious to see why you tied PBAoE spells to run speed. Do you mean targeted AoE's? Because they work fine when I quad specs. I've been killing junk with AoEs for more than 20 levels, and it works just fine.

2) The devs choose not to re-code run speed from the ground up (if that is even possible or wouldn't take 500+ man hours) - therefore, they're not serious about the server

Tell me, oh mighty God of coding, how long that would take. Then, I want you to tell me why that's such a massive priority despite the fact that the difference between classic mob run speed and current p99 run speed is probably a 15-20 percent difference - tops.

never said the devs were idiots lol

I never said that you said they were idiots.

You were more patronizing than that. You insulted them as "not being serious" about it. Given the time investment they've put into the server, That's pretty ridiculous. Would like to see you back that "logic" up.

[Weezard]

Hello, I understand you do not know what the client controls. It controls such things as the compass, newbie zone maps, etc. Obviously we didn't 'leave these in'. The client says you can have them, and how they work, so they work. So, you might want to look into what is illogical about saying non-classic, thanks.

If I had to guess.. the spell menus weren't removed on purpose. Probably a byproduct of the massive spells change done. Haven't seen that assumption posed yet.

Fair, and I honestly didn't know that. Lesson learned.

If it wasn't an intentional removal, does that mean there is a possibility it could be added back in? :)

[Dr4z3r]

Personally I would like to have seen the dev's take classic and improve on it, but as noted, what consitutes an improvement is subjective. I guess by following history as closely as possible everyone knows what they are in for (for the most part), even if it's not fun for everyone, or even the majority (the majority on one subject will be the minority on another).

I cannot /agree with this enough.

[runlvlzero]

Apparently yours fit the bill.

1) I can't PBAoE scarabs in EC - therefore, the devs aren't doing it right

That's some sound logic there.

I'm curious to see why you tied PBAoE spells to run speed. Do you mean targeted AoE's? Because they work fine when I quad specs. I've been killing junk with AoEs for more than 20 levels, and it works just fine.

2) The devs choose not to re-code run speed from the ground up (if that is even possible or wouldn't take 500+ man hours) - therefore, they're not serious about the server


because scarabs ran slow an un-sowed wizard could do 8-16 in EC very fast by rounding up scarabs and using spells like numbing cold

Nothing is impossible code wise, it might just be that its easier to get 5 gold stars by CTRL F and replacing a text file 20x to remove the spell functionality vs learning 2 code functions or ... who knows maybe mob speed was left out because adding in dynamic ranges would slow the server down to a crawl... I havn't seen any posts about it other then "its really hard, and part of the greater bigger emu project they can fix it, were gonna do other stuff instead" which is a somewhat more valid reason then its just "too hard"

Is it game breaking? no, is it anything i'm upset enough about to not play a wizard no? same thing with spell gems...

But it is a FAR MORE relevant fix then nerfing the UI needlessly (which I am going to stand by)

Also if the emu code is anything like any freshmeat or sourceforge project or google code project or open CVS repository... it would simply take re-submitting code back to the original EMU code base and upgrading the servers from .8 to .801b or whatever they use...

I have no idea but it seems like a good place to start and they would help the entire emu community as a whole

again my logic is sound in that it is A. more relevant to a classic experience, it doesn't just affect wizards etc it also effects high end quad kiting for all classes and bard swarms etc.

Anyway name calling asside thanks for giving me a reason to type up a slightly more consise and assertive post to defend my position.

I had a cup of coffee, perhaps you should get one as well.

[Striiker]

...

If I had to guess.. the spell menus weren't removed on purpose. Probably a byproduct of the massive spells change done. Haven't seen that assumption posed yet.

Hey Nilbog,

Thank you first of all for the server. It's a dream come true... I have lamented for so many years about the lack of a solid classic server and then I found P1999.

I wanted to ask if we should be posting in the bugs section with any changes which are noticed but aren't listed in the change log? An example would be the damage shield duration changes which were recently enabled or the significant reduction in agro to the disease cloud spell or the noted concerns around the spell menu changes. I ask only because when I experience changes which are not listed, I assume that that it was probably intended and learn to deal with it. Are the change logs usually accurate? Perhaps people would take their energy from complaining (as some do, although this thread was started with good intentions and in a mature manner) and put that energy into bug reporting.

[Messianic]

I had a cup of coffee, perhaps you should get one as well.

I prefer tea ;) (not to sound too much like a wood elf hipster) but thanks, your response was at least relevant and you took a legitimate stand. However, I disagree here:

But it is a FAR MORE relevant fix then nerfing the UI needlessly (which I am going to stand by)

again my logic is sound in that it is A. more relevant to a classic experience, it doesn't just affect wizards etc it also effects high end quad kiting for all classes and bard swarms etc.

Unless I was p99 staff, I wouldn't feel qualified to tell them what was more relevant - i'd probably comment if i had combed the bug and and resolved issues forums to see if I could find any relevant facts then post in the bug forum. Also, it's intellectually dishonest to assume the ui nerf was intentional and done in some draconian "ITS NOT CLASSIC GRAWRRWRR" fashion.

See this:

If I had to guess.. the spell menus weren't removed on purpose. Probably a byproduct of the massive spells change done. Haven't seen that assumption posed yet.

And getting back to bubbles' original post - it is nice to have the updated UI's (I use Duxa's and love it - even tho the nostalgia of the original ui is nice, it doesn't compare in functionality).

However, what i've read elsewhere tells me it's still there under the surface:

As for your spell sets. They are all still there, or at least mine were. All you need to do is "/memspellset, /savespellset, or /loadspellset" followed by the name of the spell set you wish to load, create, or memorize as. Without spell sets the switching between all your buffs can get very tedious.

And Nilbog commented on that post and didn't repudiate the claim...

So in reality, I don't know if it's actually been nerfed. The dust doesn't appear to have settled, as is the case after massive changes take place.

All in all, my point in posting such a sharp reply was to get a real response out of you or see if you'd rageflame me. Glad I did get a real one.

[Mad Jacq]

Classically, there was no book button. So by default, that is how it appears.

However, I believe Savok included the spell bar WITH the spellbook as an optional piece of Velious UI extras. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11949

Hope that helps.

It helped me. I was previously using the classic Velious interface. Thanks to your post I now have the tricked out spell set one.

[nilbog]

Hey Nilbog,

Thank you first of all for the server. It's a dream come true... I have lamented for so many years about the lack of a solid classic server and then I found P1999.

I wanted to ask if we should be posting in the bugs section with any changes which are noticed but aren't listed in the change log? An example would be the damage shield duration changes which were recently enabled or the significant reduction in agro to the disease cloud spell or the noted concerns around the spell menu changes. I ask only because when I experience changes which are not listed, I assume that that it was probably intended and learn to deal with it. Are the change logs usually accurate? Perhaps people would take their energy from complaining (as some do, although this thread was started with good intentions and in a mature manner) and put that energy into bug reporting.

Yah, if you see changes that aren't included in a changelog(spells), or patch notes, mention it as it might be a bug.

The spells_us.txt file, relevant changes, and a request for players to test with feedback.. were posted (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26504) in January, by Uthgaard. So, you can consider that the changelog for the spells. Unfortunately, it appears most of the players hadn't even updated their spells since last summer, if at all. This makes it difficult for us, because we do not know what is really broken.. and didn't give us the feedback we needed. If we post something like New spell file, instructions and discussion.. and players want to know whats coming, and/or have a voice in what happens, they need to test it. This is precisely the reason there was a Test Server on eqlive.

So, as you might see from our perspective.. and the beta testers for the past 2 months, these changes aren't new, and might already be reported, awaiting additional details of what is wrong, or non classic about them.

[Bubbles]

If I had to guess.. the spell menus weren't removed on purpose. Probably a byproduct of the massive spells change done. Haven't seen that assumption posed yet.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0JjK2c-5-N0/Sx_jiEha7mI/AAAAAAAAD3I/yw1FQU16BjU/s320/a_chance.jpeg

So..you're saying... there's... a... chance? :)

[karsten]

i've posted before in my support of the original posting by bubbles, and I will reiterate what he and many others have echoed in this thread -- the line to draw between how classic this server should be is subjective, and with many issues, a large majority of us are in agreement with the changes being made.

I believe I can also definitively say that this is not one of those times. Not being able to right click spell gems is masochistic on a completely unnecessarily painful level, and I urge, please, for the devs to reconsider this particular issue.

[Savok]

i've posted before in my support of the original posting by bubbles, and I will reiterate what he and many others have echoed in this thread -- the line to draw between how classic this server should be is subjective, and with many issues, a large majority of us are in agreement with the changes being made.

I believe I can also definitively say that this is not one of those times. Not being able to right click spell gems is masochistic on a completely unnecessarily painful level, and I urge, please, for the devs to reconsider this particular issue.

You could say the same thing about /melody but most people couldn't give a shit about it. As a bard having both would be awesome but then its not classic. Its all subjective.

Where do you cross the line?

[Striiker]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0JjK2c-5-N0/Sx_jiEha7mI/AAAAAAAAD3I/yw1FQU16BjU/s320/a_chance.jpeg

So..you're saying... there's... a... chance? :)

That made me laugh because I could see/hear that scene in my mind. (and I laughed when I first saw that part in the movie)

[xshayla701]

ok I know I'm a little late... but I guess being new to the game helped me out here. I didn't know you could right-click spell gems to mem until I was already 50. spell book is already organized :D

[karsten]

oh even as a non-bard I highly support melody being ingame, but that is a somewhat different issue

[Extunarian]

As someone who plays a shaman and an enchanter, I wasn't super thrilled about this change. However after sitting down and re-arranging my spell book and polishing up my spell sets I have most of my bases covered. And for those weird one-off spells like see invisible or summon food I just threw all of them on a random page in the back and made a /book 44 hotbutton.

I found this actually makes spell swapping faster for me because I was always too lazy to create a really robust list of spell sets, and individually selecting can mean a lot of extra actions. YMMV, I suppose.

And for those who claim there was no warning for this change:


Right-clicking a spell gem no longer brings up a context menu. Organize your spellbooks, you'll be spending more time in them.


The question for Uthgaard is: was this intentional? Certainly seems so by the message.

[Messianic]

The question for Uthgaard is: was this intentional? Certainly seems so by the message.

It's worthwhile to mention that it could be intentional, but only because it wasn't avoidable given certain changes also being implemented. It's possible it's like the issue where we can't currently bind at the NK gypsy camp - just the way the source is designed or how hard it would be to pull off and how easy it is to break makes it annoying.

Or maybe it was just a "not classic" thing so they removed it in purpose.

Dunno. Just listing the possibilities.

[nilbog]

I know, it's not as horrid as book-in-the-face medding or anything
..
I'm not asking anyone to change anything, just to remember it's always been a mix of striving for the classic element with newer UIs in the first place that's kept this place truckin along. I'd be curious to see if everyone got their 'wish' and the only option was 'tinybox in window' 640x480 resolution'
..
Thank you. Keep it Real. But not 'too' Real. :)

i've posted before in my support of the original posting by bubbles, and I will reiterate what he and many others have echoed in this thread -- the line to draw between how classic this server should be is subjective, and with many issues, a large majority of us are in agreement with the changes being made.

Are you guys saying, and i'm not specifically referring to right-clicking spell gems.. if p99 was completely classic, you wouldn't play? Aka, you log in, hear old music, walk around in dark, if you're a caster you must open the spellbook to meditate till you're lvl 35, item links don't work, ducking doesn't immediately interrupt spells and f10 goes between this (http://i52.tinypic.com/2qdq5jc.jpg) and this (http://i55.tinypic.com/2wntgyc.jpg)?

640x480 wasn't mandatory btw, even in 1999, iirc. I had a hercules geforce 1, r.i.p.

[Malrubius]

Are you guys saying, and i'm not specifically referring to right-clicking spell gems.. if p99 was completely classic, you wouldn't play? Aka, you log in, hear old music, walk around in dark, if you're a caster you must open the spellbook to meditate till you're lvl 35, item links don't work, ducking doesn't immediately interrupt spells and f10 goes between this (http://i52.tinypic.com/2qdq5jc.jpg) and this (http://i55.tinypic.com/2wntgyc.jpg)?

640x480 wasn't mandatory btw, even in 1999, iirc. I had a hercules geforce 1, r.i.p.

I'd play that in a heartbeat and never look back, but I know there isn't a "switch" you can flip that does it all in one fell swoop. And I know that if there WAS such a switch, you'd use it in a second. :D

I hope we all understand that we are slowly evolving towards classic Everquest (not away from it). And although we may never get there 100%, we might get there 99%.

99% classic EQ (currently maybe 90%?) is FAR closer than anything else out there. Not sure about the rest of you, but that's why I'm here.

[Humerox]

even though some changes may not be popular, people should be bowing down and kissing the devs behinds.

since this is server chat i'll be nice...but all you people blasting the devs are on crack.

i'd play if nary a thing was different from the original classic. we've all been somewhat spoiled here.

:D

[Bubbles]

Are you guys saying, and i'm not specifically referring to right-clicking spell gems.. if p99 was completely classic, you wouldn't play? Aka, you log in, hear old music, walk around in dark, if you're a caster you must open the spellbook to meditate till you're lvl 35, item links don't work, ducking doesn't immediately interrupt spells and f10 goes between this (http://i52.tinypic.com/2qdq5jc.jpg) and this (http://i55.tinypic.com/2wntgyc.jpg)?

640x480 wasn't mandatory btw, even in 1999, iirc. I had a hercules geforce 1, r.i.p.

nah, you're forgetting your #1 appeal : longevity.

You haven't just provided a past time where people go 'oh wow thats neat!" and play a month and move on to something else. Because this has strived to be close to classic and been done so extremely well we stay. We whine about the stupidest of things, but we keep logging in. Which is the real feedback, when it all comes down to it.

Without the 1999 classic tag you would have gotten the same 10k faces through the door. You wouldnt have kept 1k around logging in nightly and god knows how many more come kunark without the efforts to keep the integrity. Most EMU custom content servers have about a 3month shelf life for the new soul logging in and creating a toon. There's a ton of people who have been here for over a year.

You also have to factor in how many are here that *weren't* around in 1999. It's astounding the amount of people i've walked through lower guk and mistmoore and sol b who simply had never, ever been in those zones. There's a ton of people who clocked in here to find out what 'classic was really like'.

In a lot of ways, this *is* 1999 for a lot of people that weren't there in the beginning. Some people really are shocked that Breeze wasn't always there at 16, that newbie quest armor isn't supposed to be there, that they can find a ton of people in EC tunnel and Oasis at all hours.. etc..

You merely need to hit the EQC forum to see the fruits of single-mindedly obsessing over getting anything and everything completely classic. If this server mirrored that flag banner as opposed to the 'lets get it as close as we can on the fly, come try us out in the meantime anyways' mantra that's prevailed on here, we might never have held the numbers we have for this long.

That's why you'll always have factions on both sides of issues, whether it's ganking out manastones and guises, whether there is boats or teleporters.. UI issues like this one, and the neverending 'why is my class nerfed!?!?!' threads. Not everyone knew what it was like back then, and it's silly to assume that everyone here even cares. You care, of course, and you're calling the shots. So that's what really matters, at the end of the day.

Just believe me when i say: you got the top 5% from about 10 different servers here, and you're going to want to seriously consider two full servers come kunark, because while a typical Verant Server in 2000 may have had 2k people on it, they sure as hell weren't all level 50.9999 and ready to wreak hell on one another and RnF. And all the ones who went afk for kunark are about to reawaken. You were caught by surprise by your own succes when beta ended and live launched the first time. Be ready for the chaos this time. :)

As a selfish personal request, any chance you can leave beta open after launch? For the times we feel like goofing off without the 2k people who were 'too uber and angry' to participate in beta? I'm going to miss that place. :)

As a random suggestion as a thank you to all those who came late, how about a nice little day or two "Thanks all for a great year on p99/Goodbye to Classic' celebration where random mobs drop a couple pre nerf guises and manastones and rubi pieces and whatever, like a small gm event for a lil 'see ya classic, hello kunark' send off?

[Sharkeye]

I found this actually makes spell swapping faster

Yeah, me too! Schlurp schlurp!

[Chrushev]

I would love if all of the maps were completely removed from the game along with the compass. I would be forced to use Sense heading :)

[Humerox]

nah, you're forgetting your #1 appeal : longevity.

You haven't just provided a past time where people go 'oh wow thats neat!" and play a month and move on to something else. Because this has strived to be close to classic and been done so extremely well we stay. We whine about the stupidest of things, but we keep logging in. Which is the real feedback, when it all comes down to it.

With the 1999 classic tag you would have gotten the same 10k faces through the door. You wouldnt have kept 1k around logging in nightly and god knows how many more come kunark.

You also have to factor in how many are here that *weren't* around in 1999. It's astounding the amount of people i've walked through lower guk and mistmoore and sol b who simply had never, ever been in those zones.

In a lot of ways, this *is* 1999 for a lot of people that weren't there in the beginning. Some people really are shocked that Breeze wasn't always there at 16, that newbie quest armor isn't supposed to be there, that they can find a ton of people in EC tunnel and Oasis at all hours.. etc..

You merely need to hit the EQC forum to see the fruits of single-mindedly obsessing over getting anything and everything completely classic. If this server mirrored that flag banner as opposed to the 'lets get it as close as we can on the fly, come try us out in the meantime anyways' mantra that's prevailed on here, we might never have held the numbers we have for this long.

That's why you'll always have factions on both sides of issues, whether it's ganking out manastones and guises, whether there is boats or teleporters.. UI issues like this one, and the neverending 'why is my class nerfed!?!?!' threads. Not everyone knew what it was like back then, and it's silly to assume that everyone here even cares. You care, of course, and you're calling the shots. So that's what really matters, at the end of the day.

Just believe me when i say: you got the top 5% from about 10 different servers here, and you're going to want to seriously consider two full servers come kunark, because while a typical Verant Server in 2000 may have had 2k people on it, they sure as hell weren't all level 50.9999 and ready to wreak hell on one another and RnF. And all the ones who went afk for kunark are about to reawaken. You were caught by surprise by your own succes when beta ended and live launched the first time. Be ready for the chaos this time. :)

As a selfish personal request, any chance you can leave beta open after launch? For the times we feel like goofing off without the 2k people who were 'too uber and angry' to participate in beta? I'm going to miss that place. :)

too valuable to lose to a new page~

[Extunarian]

I found this actually makes spell swapping faster
Yeah, me too! Schlurp schlurp!

Way to cherry-pick my post, ass.

I found this actually makes spell swapping faster for me because I was always too lazy to create a really robust list of spell sets, and individually selecting can mean a lot of extra actions. YMMV, I suppose.

[Malrubius]

I would love if all of the maps were completely removed from the game along with the compass. I would be forced to use Sense heading :)

The first one is easy to do - just delete the maps directory. One of the first things I did along the way to getting my complete client down to 1.15gb.

The second one is too - just use a UI that does not include the Compass window, or, kill the Compass window. Basically, I use SH all the time.

[Mcbard]

I for one fully support the sort of "backwards-evolution" this server is trying to attempt, and although it may be an inconvenience in the short term to lose things like the context menus, in the long run it will allow me personally to appreciate the server much more. Which brings up another point that Bubbles mentioned, a lot of us will probably be on here for quite a while because we genuinely loved this game as it was when we began playing, and the closer we get to that the happier I am. If the game looks and functions like it did in the screenshots provided by Nilbog by the time Velious drops, I'll be happy as a clam. :)

[moklianne]

When is the old UI rolling out? The original box UI? It has to roll out if we are keeping the timeline and staying true to the mission right? At least until Velious drops.

I sometimes wonder if the majority of the internet's gaming masochists are concentrated right here, in P1999.

[mimixownzall]

Hum... i always used the spell book anyways. I still think it is faster to just organize your spell book and use it to swap spells

[Uthgaard]

When is the old UI rolling out? The original box UI? It has to roll out if we are keeping the timeline and staying true to the mission right? At least until Velious drops.

I sometimes wonder if the majority of the internet's gaming masochists are concentrated right here, in P1999.

It's already available. As well as the answer to the rest of your sarcastic questions. Search the forums.

[Ravendawn]

Thank you to the Devs Uth and Nil,

While we complain in this forum, it is good to know that this was probably an oversight or not intentional. It didnt make sense to be intentional. I find the server to be a good mix of nastalgia and usefull modern changes... well to some degree coughbettertexturestostopeyebleedcough.

I would prefer the devs spent time on things that are game breaking like resists being high and mana regen problems.

I absolutely hate not having contextual menus but i will drudge on without them. I just hope they were an oversight.

Thanks for all the efforts and hard work. We should give a little less grief and a bit more pat on the back.... oh and when thats done... i need contextual menus:p