Raid Rotation

[dennardscott86]

Want to Bring Back Class R and Class C guild Rotation on Raid mobs!!!

What are your thoughts?

[Argh]

lol

[Baler]

Rotation seems like a good way to combat petition quest.

[jpetrick]

Will Temple of Veeshan be restricted to class C only?

[Ravager]

Will Temple of Veeshan be restricted to class C only?
This server isn't advancing and it isn't going anywhere. It's okay to take a break once every 3 weeks.

[dennardscott86]

Will Temple of Veeshan be restricted to class C only?

Class C = Casual Raid Guild Example: Blooad Guard and Paradigm Shift
Class R = Hard-Core Guild Example: Aftermath and Awakened

1 week Break after you kill a dragon (Example: Kill CT this week, Wait 2 weeks before you Kill CT again)

ToV Named 7 day spawns Besides Ntov Dragons NOT INCLUDING Eashan and Ikiatar should be Class R only.

VP, Kunark, WtoV, Eashan, Ikiatar, Small Dragons in Velious, Dain, and CT would be Class C.

[RedXIII]

Two great servers that rotate mobs:

https://www.takproject.net/ (if you dont wanna pay)
https://www.everquest.com/register (if you want to pay some cash to have funsies!)

Go there if you want to rotate things server-wide. Leave us alone with our classic everquest without enforced rotations.

[loramin]

Leave us alone with our classic everquest without enforced rotations.

Classic EverQuest had rotations too. Some servers handled things one way, others handled it differently.

[RedXIII]

Classic EverQuest had rotations too. Some servers handled things one way, others handled it differently.

GM enforced rotations?

I know about player agreements and player made rotations but not a GM enforced rotation.

Haven't heard of but i will take your word for it. ;)

[skarlorn]

It's a bad idea.

And this is coming from someone who benefited from class rotations and wanted them.

[dennardscott86]

It worked in the past during the old days of Kunark raiding. Some good ole GM enforced rotation could allow Smaller guilds to really experience raiding towards end game and would mostly cut down on Petitions all around. Its not like A/A don't already have a Player Agreed rotation set up, this is just expounding on the current agreement.

[loramin]

GM enforced rotations?

I know about player agreements and player made rotations but not a GM enforced rotation.

Haven't heard of but i will take your word for it. ;)

My server, Bristlebane, had them in PoP but not in the classic era. I'm also pretty sure that (in the many other threads like this that have been created over the years) others have mentioned having them even earlier on their servers ... but I'm too lazy to look it up.

[icedwards]

Originally Posted by Sirken

I wasn't gonna post in this thread, but then 293 posts later, my opinion changed and there's a couple things I'd like to say.

Firstly, we as a staff and as a community, are juggling many different play-styles here on P99. That includes everything from players that will only ever reach mid levels and those level appropriate dungeons, it includes super casual guilds that may only get together once a week or every other week to farm planes, guilds that are capable of downing content but do not want to do anything besides show up to partake in that content, as well as guilds that are willing to track, race, be in voice chat & on batphones, mobilize & react to things extremely fast at any time, and a bunch of play-styles that fall between the aforementioned descriptions.

When you are dealing with that many different people, with that many different play-styles, it is literally impossible for one single course of action to make everyone happy. Surely it's possible to make one group happy, but i'm a firm believer in the school of a good negotiation means no one walks away from the table completely satisfied.

It really bothers me when I see some (not all) of the casual guilds acting like the staff doesn't care about them, and never does anything to help them. We dramatically shorted the variance window from what it was as a direct response to casual guilds complaining that it was too big (and lets be honest, hardcore guilds hated it and complained about it too), so we agreed to shorten the windows on the condition that players would stop poopsocking; we held up our end of the bargain, players did not. At this point, we will not entertain offers from players that involve the promise to stop the sock (because they already spent that card, and the staff is still awaiting it to be delivered), and we will not offer to shorten the variance any more (for the same reason).

Now, as for racing; my personal opinion aside, there is literally no universe in which an argument can be made that having an hour to kill a target that you FTE does anything besides help casual guilds get to experience more content. This change was added solely for the purpose of helping casual guilds, without destroying or removing play-styles that are enjoyed by the more hardcore guilds.

That said, Project 1999 is literally the only place where you can play Classic EQ with any kind of population and also still enjoy a competitive raid scene. It is not a server that allows you to just show up and press the "free loot" button, and it's not a server that rewards you for simply existing. And as much as I hate saying it, I have had to tell guild leaders that if all they really want is instanced raid zones, or a forced rotation, that maybe P99 just isn't the right server for them or their guild. Literally every other server has instances and/or rotations, and some guilds might just be happier there.

Before anyone tries to jump in and play the "we don't care about pixels, we just care about experiencing content" card, let me just stop you because if it was just about content and not about loot people would have been more than ok with rotating all but two VP dragons (PD & Hosh), and people would have been ok with literally any mob split or agreement, as it would still result in casual guilds getting more content than they would be getting if there was absolutely nothing in put in place (be it by staff or a player agreement).

People can complain all they want, but at the end of the day if you guild isn't forcing its members to be in voice chat, isn't utilizing some form of batphone, or is somehow still under the belief that you have to stare at a screen for 16 hours to get a mob, then you guys need to look inwards and fix those problems (and yes, those are absolutely problems if you want to be a raiding guild) because there's literally nothing that the staff or player-base can do to help you if you aren't willing to help yourselves first.

In closing, I'm sick of hearing things aren't "fair". Things are more fair now than they have been in 5+ years. Fair doesn't mean everyone gets the same amount of mobs or loot. Fair means everyone gets the same opportunity to kill those mobs or get that loot, and right now, while it might not be the perfect system for your desired play-style, it is a 100% fair system as it gives everyone a fair and equal opportunity to engage any content, and doesn't even require your raid force to be parked or even in game anymore as you now have the hour to kill.

This message has been brought to you by the letter P and the number 99.

[Shinko]

no cuz i never want to do a meeting with TMO BDA AND FE again
fuck that shit

[Crust]

Its not like A/A don't already have a Player Agreed rotation set up, this is just expounding on the current agreement.

QFT

[Triiz]

Originally Posted by Sirken


Pretty sure Sirken also recently said on his stream something along the lines that his stance on rotations is changing since A/A are already rotating a number of mobs.

[danzig]

This server isn't advancing and it isn't going anywhere. It's okay to take a break once every 3 weeks.

Yup a mere 70% of the month raiding is a much more healthy ratio yup

[Argh]

If you want to get onto the A/A rotation you just need to attempt to snipe the mobs that they rotate. It should be easier to do so since you will only be contesting one of them rather than both. You don't even need to be that successful with this to annoy them enough to breakup their rotation, get into their rotation, or snipe a mob.

[dromar]

I guess we need to add another number with the text "Begging for raid rotations"

[Legday]

If you want to get onto the A/A rotation you just need to attempt to snipe the mobs that they rotate. It should be easier to do so since you will only be contesting one of them rather than both. You don't even need to be that successful with this to annoy them enough to breakup their rotation, get into their rotation, or snipe a mob.

Its as simple as that. I don't understand the logic of people pointing to us rotating 10% of raid mobs as a reason to open up a server wide rotation on all mobs. We only rotate those few mobs with one another because they were the mobs that lead to petitions and the increased suspension lengths are a deterrent, and because we only have competition from one another on them. Show up and go for them and you will probably get a few with minimal effort.

[Nuggets]

Define "minimal effort"

[trite]

Yeah, minimal effort is begging for pixels on the forums. If you want to get into a player agreement with other guilds, you need to show up and compete.

But who knows, the GM's have created pseudo rotations on this server by deciding to ban A/A for whatever reasons at the same time. Or banning guilds for arbitrarily long durations (3 and 4 weeks at a time).

[dennardscott86]

So far the only thing ive seen done with minimum Effort is casual guilds scraping thier barrels trying to get members to come to ToV because a dragon has been up or more than 10 min. A hour later of convincing that they MAY have a chance at actually killing it, they managed to get 30-40 people from different guilds to show up, get buffed ONLY to watch A/A mobilize in less than 3, jump OVER the Casuals and Tokyo Drift that Dragon into oblivion RoFL further killing the casuals spirits of raiding. Then when asked "why you do that?" we get" You are too slow, either join us or continue watching.."


I vote Raid rotation all day.

[Joeannamelissa]

Or eliminate the main thing that gives no lifers a big advantage over casuals, 16 hour windows. That window is single handedly preventing actual competition that the hardcore players always seem to cry about. If windows were 4-8 hours I guarantee you'd see a hell of a lot more people willing to "compete". Until then your standard p99 player will continue to play the game for fun and ignore the raid scene while the neckbeards spend their playtime standing in a zone doing absolutely nothing 90% of the time.

In before "not classic"...16 hour windows aren't either

[trite]

My server, Bristlebane, had them in PoP but not in the classic era. I'm also pretty sure that (in the many other threads like this that have been created over the years) others have mentioned having them even earlier on their servers ... but I'm too lazy to look it up.

So far the only thing ive seen done with minimum Effort is casual guilds scraping thier barrels trying to get members to come to ToV because a dragon has been up or more than 10 min. A hour later of convincing that they MAY have a chance at actually killing it, they managed to get 30-40 people from different guilds to show up, get buffed ONLY to watch A/A mobilize in less than 3, jump OVER the Casuals and Tokyo Drift that Dragon into oblivion RoFL further killing the casuals spirits of raiding. Then when asked "why you do that?" we get" You are too slow, either join us or continue watching.."


I vote Raid rotation all day.


I don't know what you want, there are bi-monthly earthquakes...if you can't marshal a force to kill one or more of the dozens of targets on an hour or two's notice twice a month, you aren't a raid guild.

[trite]

Or eliminate the main thing that gives no lifers a big advantage over casuals, 16 hour windows. That window is single handedly preventing actual competition that the hardcore players always seem to cry about. If windows were 4-8 hours I guarantee you'd see a hell of a lot more people willing to "compete". Until then your standard p99 player will continue to play the game for fun and ignore the raid scene while the neckbeards spend their playtime standing in a zone doing absolutely nothing 90% of the time.

In before "not classic"...16 hour windows aren't either

I'd say the majority of the raid guild players only play a couple hours a week. They are just better organized than the "casuals".

If you want to turn every raid encounter into the scout quest then by all means take away variance. The server didn't used to have variance and they added it because life was terrible.

[mattydef]

I'd say the majority of the raid guild players only play a couple hours a week.

Majority of raid guild players...couple hours a week...this guy definitely isn't an idiot, he definitely knows what he's talking about.

[Legday]

Define "minimal effort"

When I say minimal effort what I mean is - the minimal effort required to be put forth before Sirken would/should care what your complaints are. Get the timer, have people park, batphone your guild when it spawns. If that sounds like too much then he isn't going to feel bad for you and help you out with a rotation.

If you haven't read the Sirken quote that Murkeye posted a page or so ago you should really read it to get incite into the way he views the server.

[HalasHermit]

Everquest is a team game, A/A just play better as a team. I know plenty of no lifers in CSG/PS/etc that play way more than a lot of Awakened players and see little to nothing for their efforts while the 4 hour a week 15% 30 day RA crowd in A/A are getting a close to if not BIS piece every few weeks. (And I know both A/A have trained up a lot of people and taught them how to play the team game, so you can't say we are hoarding info or something).

It really does surprise me that literally the only server that has "competition" the way I remember it on Fennin Ro has a push to turn it into another rotation server, leaving no home for the people that want competition.

I didn't apply to Rampage because I didn't think I'd have the time to be worth it with a long term relationship and a 50 hour a week job, turns out I had plenty of time to contribute during the Rampage days but instead I stayed in Haggard Krew and got minimal reward for my efforts only to watch leadership RMT themselves and the guild bank off the server.

I have a lot of friends that would just walk away from the server if there wasn't competition because it's not about the pixels (we all play for different reasons afterall), and I'm sure many of you all do as well. Should we just tell them to F off because others want a rotation when every single other server already has one?

Honestly half the people asking for a rotation don't even want the mobs, they are just doing it out of hate against A/A, a lot of which seems to be misplaced after everything that's come out the last few weeks....

[Vilkata]

Everquest is a team game, A/A just play better as a team. I know plenty of no lifers in CSG/PS/etc that play way more than a lot of Awakened players and see little to nothing for their efforts while the 4 hour a week 15% 30 day RA crowd in A/A are getting a close to if not BIS piece every few weeks. (And I know both A/A have trained up a lot of people and taught them how to play the team game, so you can't say we are hoarding info or something).

It really does surprise me that literally the only server that has "competition" the way I remember it on Fennin Ro has a push to turn it into another rotation server, leaving no home for the people that want competition.

I didn't apply to Rampage because I didn't think I'd have the time to be worth it with a long term relationship and a 50 hour a week job, turns out I had plenty of time to contribute during the Rampage days but instead I stayed in Haggard Krew and got minimal reward for my efforts only to watch leadership RMT themselves and the guild bank off the server.

I have a lot of friends that would just walk away from the server if there wasn't competition because it's not about the pixels (we all play for different reasons afterall), and I'm sure many of you all do as well. Should we just tell them to F off because others want a rotation when every single other server already has one?

Honestly half the people asking for a rotation don't even want the mobs, they are just doing it out of hate against A/A, a lot of which seems to be misplaced after everything that's come out the last few weeks....

I get confused everytime I hear someone say they want competition. All I see are 2 guilds with multiple lvl 60 toons, many with BIS gear parked in many different zones ready to log in and zerg any mob that pops. Ive seen King Tormax drop minutes after spawning. No casual guild could ever compete with that. Then you admit you rotate mobs with the one guild that could actually compete with you. I am not advocating for a rotation. Dont think any would last. I just find it slightly funny about the competition thing. Ive also noticed big guilds leaving the tougher mobs in ToV up just to roll over lesser targets cause they know nobody else can get many of the NTOV mobs. Is Gorenaire really more valuable to you than Lord Feshlak?

[HalasHermit]

I get confused everytime I hear someone say they want competition. All I see are 2 guilds with multiple lvl 60 toons, many with BIS gear parked in many different zones ready to log in and zerg any mob that pops. Ive seen King Tormax drop minutes after spawning. No casual guild could ever compete with that. Then you admit you rotate mobs with the one guild that could actually compete with you. I am not advocating for a rotation. Dont think any would last. I just find it slightly funny about the competition thing. Ive also noticed big guilds leaving the tougher mobs in ToV up just to roll over lesser targets cause they know nobody else can get many of the NTOV mobs. Is Gorenaire really more valuable to you than Lord Feshlak?

In no particular order....


The rotation is only on the mobs that yielded 90% of the petitions, given the escalating ban rule, this is just common sense. And as Legday pointed out, prime opportunity to snipe, I know both PS and CSG have leveraged this to their advantage in the past couple months.
That's the whole point, they don't care about the pixels, they just enjoy racing another guild to a mob.
All I'm saying is it doesn't make sense to eliminate the only competition server for classic EQ in existence.
Sirken himself in his big post listed earlier that current situation is the most fair it has been in a long time.


On a separate note, special shout out to those of you that have reached out over the ban with logic and level headed thinking as opposed to blind hatred, <3 you all.

[Vilkata]

In no particular order....


The rotation is only on the mobs that yielded 90% of the petitions, given the escalating ban rule, this is just common sense.
That's the whole point, they don't care about the pixels, they just enjoy racing another guild to a mob.
All I'm saying is it doesn't make sense to eliminate the only competition server for classic EQ in existence.
Sirken himself in his big post listed earlier that current situation is the most fair it has been in a long time.


On a separate note, special shout out to those of you that have reached out over the ban with logic and level headed thinking as opposed to blind hatred, <3 you all.

But the rotation you have allows you to focus more on lesser mobs that casual guilds would go for to build themselves up. If you were still racing with each other, lesser guilds could sneak in Eashen, Dagarn and the like.

[HalasHermit]

But the rotation you have allows you to focus more on lesser mobs that casual guilds would go for to build themselves up. If you were still racing with each other, lesser guilds could sneak in Eashen, Dagarn and the like.

Last I checked, triples weren't considered 100% USDA Prime time....I actually remember it was our turn for triples back in early Feb and a couple casual guilds teamed up to go for triples and we left them alone for a few hours and after 9 or 10 tries they finally got the pulls down and got one down, then the other then the other.

Hell our pull team was even cheering them on in ooc....

[Legday]

But the rotation you have allows you to focus more on lesser mobs that casual guilds would go for to build themselves up. If you were still racing with each other, lesser guilds could sneak in Eashen, Dagarn and the like.

Actually believe it or not but outside targets such as Sev and Gore are just as sought after as a mob like Fesh (who has one of the worst loot tables in tov). We have members that want green or white scales more than anything else. Not to mention Prayers of Life and torpor. Just because kunark dragons can drop vendor trash doesn't mean they don't have top loot.

[Vilkata]

Last I checked, triples weren't considered 100% USDA Prime time....I actually remember it was our turn for triples back in early Feb and a couple casual guilds teamed up to go for triples and we left them alone for a few hours and after 9 or 10 tries they finally got the pulls down and got one down, then the other then the other.

Hell our pull team was even cheering them on in ooc....

I think that was really nice of your guild to cheer them on. But how many times is that going to happen? I still refer back to my earlier point. I think if you were still worried about losing mobs to Awakened, more lesser targets like triplets would fall to smaller guilds. No rotation needed.

[Vilkata]

Actually believe it or not but outside targets such as Sev and Gore are just as sought after as a mob like Fesh (who has one of the worst loot tables in tov). We have members that want green or white scales more than anything else. Not to mention Prayers of Life and torpor. Just because kunark dragons can drop vendor trash doesn't mean they don't have top loot.

I stand corrected.

[beargryllz]

I think that was really nice of your guild to cheer them on. But how many times is that going to happen?

Triplets/Twins are left up almost every single time. It takes quite a while to push back Vulak's window far enough to make going for twins/triplets viable for A/A. This last ban, AM could sit on Vulak forever to push him out of window, but that isn't normal. Or is it?

Casuals could literally spend 3 hours mobilizing and they'd still have time to spare after a quake and still walk away with several NTOV dragon kills

[Ravager]

When you are dealing with that many different people, with that many different play-styles, it is literally impossible for one single course of action to make everyone happy. Surely it's possible to make one group happy, but i'm a firm believer in the school of a good negotiation means no one walks away from the table completely satisfied.
It's true they can't make everyone happy, but they could at least try to make most happy. I'll go out on a limb and say most people in A/A don't like waking up to batphones, but it's the only way they can see those pixels. Why enable the tiny fraction of raiders who want to do that to have so much control over so much content?



That's the whole point, they don't care about the pixels, they just enjoy racing another guild to a mob.


I bet this isn't true for most people on those raids. Most are there for the pixels because it's the only way to get them.

[loramin]

I'll go out on a limb and say most people in A/A don't like waking up to batphones, but it's the only way they can see those pixels. Why enable the tiny fraction of raiders who want to do that to have so much control over so much content?

QFT

[HalasHermit]

I bet this isn't true for most people on those raids. Most are there for the pixels because it's the only way to get them.

Never said it was the majority or made any reference to numbers or breakdowns. My main point was that those people do exist and this is the only server that offers that play style.

[trite]

Majority of raid guild players...couple hours a week...this guy definitely isn't an idiot, he definitely knows what he's talking about.

Yeah I looked at your magelo profiles, where vindi gear is your best gear lol. I know what I'm talking about. Raid guilds have a core of neckbeards, these people do the majority the tracking and other bs and they are the only ones full BiS or close to it (oftentimes they burn out). Then there is everyone else. Everyone else is ready to log in only when they get a text message saying there is stuff to kill. Otherwise they are off doing other stuff.

There are just as many neckbeards in casual guilds, they're just doing less productive stuff

[Nibblewitz]

Let's not forget about the neckbeards in casual guilds who do track, only to have their efforts squandered by poor mobilization.

[Ruhtar]

Yeah I looked at your magelo profiles, where vindi gear is your best gear lol.

Yikes.

Any shitter with a 60 who wants to put up with people like you can get better gear, but some people choose not to. Bringing someone's gear into question about their knowledge on the game or how long an average A/A member is online seems irrelevant. Then you wonder why your guild gets so much flak.

Truth is, for every A/A member that only plays 4 hours a week, there's another who does most of the leg work, playing well over 50. Just because some of your members choose to show up for welfare pixels and not contribute, doesn't mean that's the average or even close to. Hence, your lack of understanding.

[loramin]

Never said it was the majority or made any reference to numbers or breakdowns. My main point was that those people do exist and this is the only server that offers that play style.

You completely ignored the second half of what Ravager wrote (even though you agree that "those people" are the minority):

Why enable the tiny fraction of raiders who want to do that to have so much control over so much content?

Simply because "this is the only server that does *any particular thing*" doesn't mean any particular thing is worth doing. Perhaps there's a reason no other server has (entirely unclassic BTW) batphones?

[aaezil]

p99 is already rotated lmao why not make it official

[Nibblewitz]

p99 is already rotated lmao why not make it official

Agreed. Let's make Sontalak the gateway mob.

[skarlorn]

If you kill Sontalak, you are allowed to join the Vindi Rotation!

Where can I sign on Rivervale Vanguard?

[Ravager]

Let's not forget about the neckbeards in casual guilds who do track, only to have their efforts squandered by poor mobilization.
Yes, this server does a fine job of catering to that play style too!

[Terrel]

Couple VP dragons and Triplets have been up for hours uncontested and none of the casuals have moved on them...

....

They're working!

[dennardscott86]

Couple VP dragons and Triplets have been up for hours uncontested and none of the casuals have moved on them...

I need you to try to remember the Old days of TMO. No mobs were left standing past 30 mins of their spawn times. TMO took no prisoners and if you wanted a Epic you either paid Millions of plat or joined TMO and put in a ass load of work. That left Casual guild begging for mercy all the time.

Now look at now. TMO is replaced by A/A and even worst, farm crews. Now by all means neither of these are totally bad and i admit does bring a sometimes Healthy sense of Competitiveness but the damage has already been done by the Heavy raiding guilds. You can Leave Eashan up for 8 hours and Casuals will still have to think twice about attempting because, And Dont play me, if ANY guild mobilizes for what looks like an attempt, AM would NOT hesitate to Jump over as fast as possible to kill it. Casuals are afraid of raiding bigger mobs because even the slightest bit of effort gets Blocked like we were in Dikembe Mutombo house. Look We have both been in the position of Casuals and now you are in the Elite, BoTB raiding tier tell me you dont feel like TMO? Like you dont control the server because you cant be contested by any entity?

Tell me thats not true. Ill wait.....

Look Im not saying you should End your way of raiding because That wold NOT be fair to you and Awakened. You guys are beast of your own Nature and should have your moments to Duke it out AL you want. What I believe is that WE THE CASUALS should NOT have to compete against A/A Like a Mom and Pop Grocery trying to open next to a Super Walmart. We deserve to see End game content and Healthy Competition. A Class rotation is the Best option for that.

[Nibblewitz]

I think Velketor, Vindi, and Wuoshi are already rotated.

[Argh]

We deserve to see End game content and Healthy Competition.

Then why not go after mobs that get left up while more desirable targets are still in window, or go after mobs that are rotated between A/A?

[dennardscott86]

Then why not go after mobs that get left up while more desirable targets are still in window, or go after mobs that are rotated between A/A?

What mobs are left up? Velkator? Lord boB? Master of Sprite? and we cant compete with A/A. A 30 man Casual group VS a 80 man Force. I sat in Fear with my guild competing again AM for Golems. They had 70 people in zone... 70 people and at the same DAMN TIME had 40 AM in Kael killing KT.... How do we compete?

[Matalus]

What mobs are left up?

And while your posting this, there are mobs up that no one is touching.

I understand your playstyle, I really do, but you can't place blame or Team A or B for the raid scene. If you want it to change anyone here has the power to change it. Step up to the plate. No one is stopping you, I'll dare say most encourage it. No one will take you serious sitting here on the forums asking for a server forced rotation, when mobs are up not being touched and you aren't even attempting.

[bmcgaffey20]

No one has moved on them? How bout a shout out to Lord Bob and Venerate forces for moving on Sevalak at 10am pacific this morning? Cekenar popped at 14%, wiping us out at 9%. This would have been the second week in a row that LB and Venerate forces killed Sevalak. And by a few mere moments we missed out on an opportunity to kill all three of them today.

Leave sevelak up for us, and LB will deliver another open raid target in NToV to the server. Unfortunate timing today, but stop hating on the casuals, we're trying =)

Coming from the Guild Leader of Venerate; I am perfect fine with the way things are. Understanding we're not in the position to directly compete with either a/a (but especially not a), we take the opportunities we get. Guilds at the end-game that have encountered our forces have generally been fair, and civil. No complaints. Just stop rubbing it in someone's face if they fail. Linking netted kelp and telling people they can buy it today and tell their friends they got loot in ToV simply because you are smashing out the competition is unclassy at best.

[bmcgaffey20]

After reading a bit further back into this thread, I have noticed some talk about the doubles and triplets in ToV. I Think this particular situation pertains especially to Venerate. Our entire focus for a few months has been aimed at the limited opportunities at success for those dragons. Recently, the fruits of our labor have started to show... Leading to our first recent kills and engagements. Let me tell you what; it feels real good on some of my members and officers that have worked tirelessly at this. DONT throw this away for a rotation. Uncontested kills don't mean anything.

[bmcgaffey20]

One more thing. When Cekenar popped today when Sevalak was at 14%... I was quick to receive tells letting me know LB and Ven were DQ'd from Cekenar. Yet, Triples have been up all day and none of the casuals have moved on it. What do I actually have to do to make and actual real move to you people?

[bmcgaffey20]

yes, please root the dragons. Aarynar, Vyemm, and the others that were perma rooted.

[Legday]

One more thing. When Cekenar popped today when Sevalak was at 14%... I was quick to receive tells letting me know LB and Ven were DQ'd from Cekenar.

Who told you that you were DQ'd from Cekenar?

[Docx]

Linking netted kelp and telling people they can buy it today and tell their friends they got loot in ToV simply because you are smashing out the competition is unclassy at best.

That was me who posted the auction but on NO WAY did I mean it towards your guild(s?), it was more of a fun way to sell my item with a bunch of people in zone. I’d be the first to say lol F off if you were offended by a joke of mine but again this wasn’t my intention. I literally logged on for the first time in days saw a bunch of people and tried to sell my shit helm which is still for sale by the way.

Other items I’ve tried to sell while in ToV, ravenscale mask, schws, orb of tishan, etc. it’s a great place to sell items when there are a bunch of people in zone!

[xzhaa]

That was me who posted the auction but on NO WAY did I mean it towards your guild(s?), it was more of a fun way to sell my item with a bunch of people in zone. I’d be the first to say lol F off if you were offended by a joke of mine but again this wasn’t my intention. I literally logged on for the first time in days saw a bunch of people and tried to sell my shit helm which is still for sale by the way.

Other items I’ve tried to sell while in ToV, ravenscale mask, schws, orb of tishan, etc. it’s a great place to sell items when there are a bunch of people in zone!

Yeah I tought that was funny too lol ..... People these day get way too easily offended

[Skew]

No one has moved on them? How bout a shout out to Lord Bob and Venerate forces for moving on Sevalak at 10am pacific this morning? Cekenar popped at 14%, wiping us out at 9%. This would have been the second week in a row that LB and Venerate forces killed Sevalak. And by a few mere moments we missed out on an opportunity to kill all three of them today.



Thats unfortunate. If not all triplets have popped you should take a bit longer and clear the 2 static wurms and the pathing flurry and fight in the hallway outside (the hallway that used to be safe in classic but P99 decided to add a non-classic roaming flurry drake...)

[Shinko]

Make all dragons spawn in random zones and force people to log in and mobilize to them

Tov dragons in b maze? Perfect

[bmcgaffey20]

No worries. It was just by a matter of moments. A phone call I had to take pre-engagement. Waiting for people to trickle in for an hour. The stunt we pulled to get into position for the kill. All these things took time. Time we are looking to shave out of our routine. Hopefully we can see you all again next week.... until next time, casuals signing out.

Also, if you were present at that raid, and you are reading this... Get signed into cleric accounts earlier, get parked out earlier. Part of this is <LB> leaderships fault.... but every single one of us know what day it is, and what time it is. We now see we are capable of our goals and have not been wasting time. Focus our power together casual troops and lets do this shit.

[Tobius]

It's fair now if you completely ignore RL.

The current non rotation favour no lifers.

It's not about casuals being entitled to free loot. Beating the encounter is earning the loot. Socking for 18 hours is not the content.

The problem is self perpetuating. Casuals who have done all except the cock blocked content leave, sockers remain. Eventually the server is full of maniacs and all the cool people have left. That's not a classic vibe either.

Rotation isn't classic but classic never stayed classic, it had new content. Permanent classic is not classic. A rotation would solve this. Everyone will still get all the pixels eventually, just slightly less fast but everyone would gain thousands of more valuable rl hours they used on socking.

Maintaining the spirit of classic (i.e actually being fun) is more important than literally mechanical classic. We never had all the knowledge of game mechanics we do now back then, that alone makes it different.

Make P99 good again. Bring back rotation.

[Daloon]

Rotation isn't classic but classic never stayed classic, it had new content. Permanent classic is not classic. A rotation would solve this. Everyone will still get all the pixels eventually, just slightly less fast but everyone would gain thousands of more valuable rl hours they used on socking.


There is less socking right now on Project1999 than in the entirety of the last 5 years.

[eezl]

It seems to me that tracking every ToV spawn so that a guild can log in 60 toons and kill it in 10 minutes IS socking. You still may need to win a race to FTE it, but your guild has had someone dedicated to socking every mob every week for 5+ years, and it hasnt slowed down in 2018.

[loramin]

Rotation isn't classic

Almost one year after the public release of Everquest, server overcrowding is a constant topic of debate. On the established servers, overcrowding in the "high-level" hunting areas has led to server migrations, "play-nice" rules being instituted, and on my server (Cazic-Thule) a reservation system where guilds actually reserve a dungeon, or plane, for months in advance.

While technically I guess that quote describes a "scheduling" rather than a "rotation", the point is that GM-enforced sharing of raid targets did exist (on some servers) even back in classic. And certainly in Luclin and PoP I know for a fact that some servers did literal rotations, because mine (Bristlebane) did.

Oh, and as a side note, our lack of server migrations is definitely not classic ;)

[Metham]

I can't stand this notion that persists that rotations are necessary to spread the wealth. The bulk of A/A are not getting bis 2nd and third alts. Im still on my first 60, i have arguably 3 bis items but no epic. Ive been with AM for well over a year, by definition im casual. Why is my epic or ring ten less important than yours even though your guilds dont show up but bellyache about not being able to compete. Why should i have to rotate chances at pixels i want when im out here trying to get stuff done. You want it, come get it, end the rotation talk, no free loot button.

[Endonde]

I can't say for 5, but right now we have more guilds going for more targets than anytime in the last 2 years I've been raiding. The entire scene changed with bi-monthly repops. The fact that mob windows don't get spread out for months at a time greatly reduces the amount of tracking required. The next step is to #rootthedragons. If we could get a Vulak ring event and most of NTOV rooted we'd see even more guilds getting involved while the top end raiders are busy doing the hardest content. This could even stand to increase the loot drops to classic levels.

You must have an awful memory, the number of competing guilds has plummeted.

I'm not arguing for full rotations, but the server has been far healthier in the past.

[Dman2701]

If you can't get raid targets with 2 earthquakes a month than your not a raid guild and don't belong in any discussions involving raiding.

[Endonde]

https://i.imgur.com/W3mQDR6.jpg

There are far more guilds getting mobs every month than the 2 years previous.

Kk so at the start of Velious you had these guilds actively killing Velious mobs weekly with no rotations, and less repops.

BDA
Divinity
Rampage
Forsaken
Asgard
Taken
CSG

These days you have

Aftermath
Tempest?
CSG
Paradigm Shift

And these days it seems Europa, and Omni really only do repop mobs, or rotated mobs due to top guilds being suspended.

Blood Guard, Kittens, Anonymous aren't actively competing, and this is nothing against those guilds, there is certainly a place on the server for guilds like them.

As Velious has progressed it has become more, and more unfriendly to the casual playerbase, the only reason poopsocking is at an all time low is because the top guilds are suspended a large portion of the time. Outside of those suspensions though to be able to FTE 1 Dragon in ToV you need at roughly 5 people to be able to pull the target, and then another 6 or so to be on and ready at a moments notice for an incoming dragon. By comparison during 1 hour lock outs you needed 1 person.

[Detoxx]

Kk so at the start of Velious you had these guilds actively killing Velious mobs weekly with no rotations, and less repops.

BDA Vindi? Maybe
Divinity Cant think of one thing they killed. Maybe a random Telk / Gozz
Rampage
Forsaken
Asgard Was killing Severilous on launch day and Class C Scraps
Taken Poop Socked VS, killed nothing else
CSG Wasn't competing very much after Class System

These days you have

Aftermath
Tempest?
Azure Guard
Euromni
Blood Guard
Paradigm Shift

Point being: guilds that existed at the launch of Velious does not mean they were killing things in Velious (BDA, Taken, CSG). Guilds that exist today actually kill mobs in Velious.

[Ravager]

I can't stand this notion that persists that rotations are necessary to spread the wealth. The bulk of A/A are not getting bis 2nd and third alts. Im still on my first 60, i have arguably 3 bis items but no epic. Ive been with AM for well over a year, by definition im casual. Why is my epic or ring ten less important than yours even though your guilds dont show up but bellyache about not being able to compete. Why should i have to rotate chances at pixels i want when im out here trying to get stuff done. You want it, come get it, end the rotation talk, no free loot button.
Except for the one you press to login to P99.

You don't need 3 BIS items on your char, let alone 1. Why do you deserve them more than someone else? Because you were first to the buffet line? Rotations don't make the loot free. There isn't any more loot dropping with a rotation. What effective difference does it make to you whether you have 3 BIS vs 1 BIS and two others having 1 BIS each? You are still playing the same game against the same content with the same outcomes. Why does being sleep deprived and being on call for pixels make you more entitled?

If it's about getting inspects in EC, pro-tip: you can do that with a set of bamboo armor from Warrens.

Besides, don't kid yourself. You're already standing in line for pixels in your own guild, except you're not going to have any chance at the very best pixels for years if you're playing casual as you say. At least in Clue you can /random for them and get a good night's sleep.

[Endonde]

Point being: guilds that existed at the launch of Velious does not mean they were killing things in Velious (BDA, Taken, CSG). Guilds that exist today actually kill mobs in Velious.

You're clearly just misrepresenting the current raid scene because it benefits your guilds dominance.

[Ravager]

Can't single tank AoW with 1 BIS item.
With 60+ people, I'm sure you can find another tank.

Besides, your argument here is an argument for getting easier loot, which has always been the argument against rotations.

[Nibblewitz]

Rotations are shit. That's why I forced BDA's hand to blow up the rotation.

[Metham]

Except for the one you press to login to P99.

You don't need 3 BIS items on your char, let alone 1. Why do you deserve them more than someone else? Because you were first to the buffet line? Rotations don't make the loot free. There isn't any more loot dropping with a rotation. What effective difference does it make to you whether you have 3 BIS vs 1 BIS and two others having 1 BIS each? You are still playing the same game against the same content with the same outcomes. Why does being sleep deprived and being on call for pixels make you more entitled?

If it's about getting inspects in EC, pro-tip: you can do that with a set of bamboo armor from Warrens.

Besides, don't kid yourself. You're already standing in line for pixels in your own guild, except you're not going to have any chance at the very best pixels for years if you're playing casual as you say. At least in Clue you can /random for them and get a good night's sleep.

You're right, i am aleeady in line in my own guild, and i get plenty of sleep. So why should i want the line to get longer by agreeing to rotate with guilds that dont even try to compete anyway. Its not an entitlement issue either, no one deserves a free bis item. Doesnt matter if youre on first, fourth, or your 3rd 60 alt, come put the work in.

[pogs4ever]

had raid rotations in 99 on Rathe Server, was fun.

[Bones]

had raid rotations in 99 on Rathe Server, was fun.

yup thank you. I was also on rathe during vanilla - velious and rotation worked just fine

[DayForz]

A third former Rathe player checking in, rotation system we had was great!

[Ravager]

You're right, i am aleeady in line in my own guild, and i get plenty of sleep. So why should i want the line to get longer by agreeing to rotate with guilds that dont even try to compete anyway. Its not an entitlement issue either, no one deserves a free bis item. Doesnt matter if youre on first, fourth, or your 3rd 60 alt, come put the work in.
Since when is showing up work? You say you get sleep, so you're a warm body who simply shows up for dkp at your convenience. How is this different for a guild in a rotation? I ask again, why should you showing up for pixels entitle you to more than anyone else showing up for pixels?

[Argh]

Everyone is severely underestimating the amount of time and effort that is required for maintaining a rotation agreement.

[Ravager]

Everyone is severely underestimating the amount of time and effort that is required for maintaining a rotation agreement.
On one server with 30 guilds, yes, but it is 2018 and we have these things called computers which do a lot of the heavy lifting. It's one spreadsheet and one calendar to maintain.

The real problem is that a single blue server is completely unclassic. Live wouldn't have rotated 30 guilds on one server, because there weren't 30 raiding guilds for the top end content on any given server at once.

One thing this server does have, that live didn't, however, is a locked at Velious timeline and a shit-ton of nerds who have been playing here for years on end and will continue to play here for years on end. So a 30 guild rotation isn't a ridiculous proposition, because where the hell else will you be playing classic EverQuest 10 years from now anyway? Who cares if it takes you a year to get the one thing you want vs a month? You're going to be here long after that anyway.

[Argh]

Who cares if it takes you a year to get the one thing you want vs a month? You're going to be here long after that anyway.

All of the guilds participating in the rotation who view themselves as the top tier guilds will care.

Once the time sink of competing for spawns (poopsocking) barrier to entry is removed there is basically no need for a guild larger than 30-40 players. Basically every guild that exists now would want to get into the rotation (rightfully so since they all can basically kill everything in the game if there is no competition to actually get the mob) and every top-end casual guild will want the entry process into the rotation to be as restrictive as possible and take as long as possible which would increase the chance that smaller guilds would actually try to circumvent the rotation and just try to snipe mobs against weaker links in the rotations, eventually causing it's dissolution.

On the other hand if the rotation was effortless to join the likelihood of the top end casual guilds no longer wanting to participate in the rotation greatly increases and them leaving guarantees the failure of the agreement.

And the constant battle between these two positions is where all the time and effort is devoted in the form of non-stop rule change propositions and dispute handling--not something solved by a 'spreadsheet or calendar.'

[Ravager]

All of the guilds participating in the rotation who view themselves as the top tier guilds will care.

Once the time sink of competing for spawns (poopsocking) barrier to entry is removed there is basically no need for a guild larger than 30-40 players. Basically every guild that exists now would want to get into the rotation (rightfully so since they all can basically kill everything in the game if there is no competition to actually get the mob) and every top-end casual guild will want the entry process into the rotation to be as restrictive as possible and take as long as possible which would increase the chance that smaller guilds would actually try to circumvent the rotation and just try to snipe mobs against weaker links in the rotations, eventually causing it's dissolution.

On the other hand if the rotation was effortless to join the likelihood of the top end casual guilds no longer wanting to participate in the rotation greatly increases and them leaving guarantees the failure of the agreement.

And the constant battle between these two positions is where all the time and effort is devoted in the form of non-stop rule change propositions and dispute handling--not something solved by a 'spreadsheet or calendar.'
I acknowledge that I'm in the vast, vast, vast minority majority on this server who comes here for the nostalgia and not to try to be the best or get the most of something that really doesn't matter, so I see your point. It's just wishful thinking of mine that people really shouldn't care about this shit and share and play nice.

[Endonde]

All of the guilds participating in the rotation who view themselves as the top tier guilds will care.

Once the time sink of competing for spawns (poopsocking) barrier to entry is removed there is basically no need for a guild larger than 30-40 players. Basically every guild that exists now would want to get into the rotation (rightfully so since they all can basically kill everything in the game if there is no competition to actually get the mob) and every top-end casual guild will want the entry process into the rotation to be as restrictive as possible and take as long as possible which would increase the chance that smaller guilds would actually try to circumvent the rotation and just try to snipe mobs against weaker links in the rotations, eventually causing it's dissolution.

On the other hand if the rotation was effortless to join the likelihood of the top end casual guilds no longer wanting to participate in the rotation greatly increases and them leaving guarantees the failure of the agreement.

And the constant battle between these two positions is where all the time and effort is devoted in the form of non-stop rule change propositions and dispute handling--not something solved by a 'spreadsheet or calendar.'

Damn it almost sounds like you are speaking from experience...

[Ravager]

lol do you even eq? thats some fairytale shit right there. even casuals have pixel lust.
You don't see them here, because they don't post on these forums, they just play the game, but most people don't get passed level 50 if they ever get there at all. They have their nostalgia, then quit good and proper when they see the ceiling that is the end game and how awful it is. There are not 1200 raiders playing on this server at prime time.

Differentiating between a casual raider and a hard core raider is like differentiating between between a wino and an alcoholic. If you're playing this game more than 15 hours a week, you're not really a casual. True casuals are only playing a few hours a week and there's more than you think, and no they don't have the pixel lust.

[Swish2]

I acknowledge that I'm in the vast, vast, vast minority majority on this server who comes here for the nostalgia and not to try to be the best or get the most of something that really doesn't matter, so I see your point. It's just wishful thinking of mine that people really shouldn't care about this shit and share and play nice.

We tried the rotation thing, remember who screwed it up and dissolved it? Your guild. Then they went and instanced raided on a dying server and don't exist anymore. Can't win even when you can raid 4 nights a week uncontested :o

There's people who'd argue that live EQ is equally nostalgic...I wouldn't agree, but the alternative exists.

[Ravager]

We tried the rotation thing, remember who screwed it up and dissolved it? Your guild. Then they went and instanced raided on a dying server and don't exist anymore. Can't win even when you can raid 4 nights a week uncontested :o

There's people who'd argue that live EQ is equally nostalgic...I wouldn't agree, but the alternative exists.
...

Get over it. BDA's gone and won't be destroying anymore rotations. FYI, it wasn't my decision to blow it up, but I did understand the frustration of my guildmates of other guilds triple dipping in it.

Now, next time you try to troll me, before you post, don't bother. You never have anything new to say. It'll either be a try red post or a BDA blew up the rotation post. Why they let you get away with creating more accounts after a permaban and troll the same people over and over is beyond me.

[Argh]

People quit at 50 because they can't kill ntov mobs? The early raid scene is super accessible to all guilds and not really a shit show.

[clstrider]

my 2 cents. Everyone join 1 Guild <P1999> and everyone follows a single dkp or reward system.
Done

[Just facts]

Point being: guilds that existed at the launch of Velious does not mean they were killing things in Velious (BDA, Taken, CSG). Guilds that exist today actually kill mobs in Velious.

Selective memory, I see nothing has changed, want another try at your point?

http://wiki.project1999.com/Server_Firsts#Velious_Kills


As for others points about rotation not being classic I can link to old guild forums where they complain about the rotation that the top guilds had and how hard it is to join the rotation, you had to be able to be able to kill stuff to join part of the rotation.
One thing that is even more classic is that the rotations never lasted long on any server that had them.

[Detoxx]

Selective memory, I see nothing has changed, want another try at your point?

http://wiki.project1999.com/Server_Firsts#Velious_Kills


As for others points about rotation not being classic I can link to old guild forums where they complain about the rotation that the top guilds had and how hard it is to join the rotation, you had to be able to be able to kill stuff to join part of the rotation.
One thing that is even more classic is that the rotations never lasted long on any server that had them.

Unsure what you're trying to prove linking Server Firsts? If you're BDA then I guess ya, you killed a couple big targets in Kael that Forsaken and Rampage skipped on opening day to race for ToV and ST keys then you never killed them again.

Easy to kill shit when the 2 top guilds go right by. Also, iirc your guild leader ate a suspension for training the fuck out of people at WL. Grats on server first Wuoshi and Velk, though!

That is if you're BDA, if you arent then your point is even more futile.