About Rangers at 50 or 60

[Cribanox]

So Im going to be 50 this week and im trying to decide on an alt to work on twinking. Im basically between a monk and a ranger.

I played a 60 monk on live, so ive been there done that, but a melee class with swords has always caught my interest.

Rangers really dont look that bad as a damage class. I mean, they get to quad (duel wield and double attack), so they have that in common with a monk. Monks get flying kick, but rangers do get some decent DDs (300-400?) and a ton of utility (sow snare thorns root invs etc).

Im not sure what era monks get a higgen chance for triple attack though.

I dont get why I wouldnt want to roll a ranger. During raids there wont be many more of them to fight with over loot, and I think Id generally like the class.

Anything im missing as to why rangers are hated on so much?

[Tiphae]

A lot of being a ranger is aggro management. When to get it and when to not. Rangers don't get the level of defensive skills as monks, sk, Pali, war. Nor as many health points. You are very gear dependent as a ranger.

On the plus side, a well geared, skilled ranger is good dps and can weild any weapon you throw at it.

On last piece of warning 40% xp penalty and being passed up on groups for rogues and monks is painful. Unlike sk's and pali's.

[Hobby]

Aye, rangers have an issue with aggro. Being able to reduce the aggro they cause (that flux blade ax is a bitch), is key. But, once you manage to do that, you are a very useful class.




However you might still be used as DT bait :p

[Gorgetrapper]

Aye, rangers have an issue with aggro. Being able to reduce the aggro they cause (that flux blade ax is a bitch), is key. But, once you manage to do that, you are a very useful class.




However you might still be used as DT bait :p

Honestly, I see more bards and monks as DT sponges than rangers right now lol. Then again, it's probably because there are more of them than rangers.

[Hobby]

Like 6 raiding rangers >.< and i usually see applicants to the guild being used lol.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Hope you like to solo. From 1-50, I spent over 90% of my time alone. The flux-bladed axe is unusable in a group unless you're going to root everything onto the tank. The only thing you really get to shine at is tracking, and SEQ does it better than you.

[Sparkin]

Eh, flux axe is gonna be shortly obsolete soon anyways. There are better available weapons in Kunark which are tradeable and don't have high aggro procs.

Ranger is fine you don't mind the fact that monks are going to outdamage you, take hits better than you, and pull better than you in most cases. In a group situation there are things you can do better than a monk, but they are situational (track, pull outdoors, tank easy content, some spot CC). Unfortunately, snare is largely useless on this server compared to how necessary it was on live. Kinda sucks really that the effort was never put forth to make mobs run earlier and faster the way they are supposed to. Snare was a tool every group wanted back in the days and its unnecessary here, so one of the biggest things rangers had to add to a group is gone.

In a raid setting, the first ranger becomes pretty important in Kunark to make sure the raid has pred at least, and then every ranger afterward at least adds a WS which can be handy. Other than those two things, pretty much inferior raiders to a monk for the next couple expansions.

If you care more about having fun than min / maxing, I'd say try it out. Can always roll a monk later if you want.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I completely agree about the weapons and it might be advisable to wait for some of those to become available before leveling. I would definitely not recommend dumping 15K on dragon claws when they turn to junk in a few weeks.

[Dr4z3r]

Monks have Feign Death.

[Messianic]

Monks have Feign Death.

This.

Rangers are fun and all - they actually have really good dungeon viability in KC because it's considered outdoors (at least my memory is very affirmative that this is so).

But where i'm really torn is SK vs monk.

Sure, monks have a far more versatile version of FD and mend - but SKs have a crapton of other utility that's really tempting - undead lull, both kinds of invis, lifetaps as heals, etc...

Sorry for the derail ;)

[Phallax]

Ranger can be a very fun class. I played a friends thought Kunark here and there.
As you said they bring a lot of utility.

About the tripple attack. I believe both monk and warrior get hidden tripple at 60.

[guineapig]

They are the only melee class that doesn't need to waste money on j-boots or SoW pots. :p

Seriously that should be worth something.

And with the size of Kunark zones, ranger tracking will be in high demand for quests etc. I tested out bard and druid track there and it totally sucked in comparison.

Rangers don't get FD but sow and snare can still be pretty damn awesome when you just want to get to a zoneline by any means necessary.

[Seaweedpimp]

They are the only melee class that doesn't need to waste money on j-boots or SoW pots. :p

Seriously that should be worth something.

And with the size of Kunark zones, ranger tracking will be in high demand for quests etc. I tested out bard and druid track there and it totally sucked in comparison.

Rangers don't get FD but sow and snare can still be pretty damn awesome when you just want to get to a zoneline by any means necessary.

Sow isnt till level 39. Sooooo your getting jboots anyway.

[guineapig]

Sow isnt till level 39. Sooooo your getting jboots anyway.

What? Show me one ranger who did the j-boots quest prior to level 39 because they couldn't wait and had 5k to burn.

[aggresor223]

Honestly, I see more bards and monks as DT sponges than rangers right now lol. Then again, it's probably because there are more of them than rangers.

We had a necro take our first DT!!! =D Yay apoc!

[Aadill]

What? Show me one ranger who did the j-boots quest prior to level 39 because they couldn't wait and had 5k to burn.

Sadly I thought SoW was 30 and was so distraught when I found out it was level 39, but not enough to make me go out and spend my entire bank account on something that would get replaced in just a few days of leveling.

A ranger with Jboots isn't a ranger, it's a twink :mad:

[Seaweedpimp]

Regardless, you're still buying sow potions up to 39 and thats probably in the ballpark of atleast 3k?

[Aadill]

I pimp walked like a boss. Screw SoW pots, I'm poor.

[guineapig]

Anyway, this is about rangers 50-60, not 1-39.

I've never had a problem getting Sow and tend to stay in a specific zone for many levels at a time anyway. Shaman and druids are everywhere.

/end derail

[Aadill]

Anyway, this is about rangers 50-60, not 1-39.

/end derail

Indeed.

Back on track: the items, skills, and disciplines that rangers acquire in Kunark and Velious really do set them apart in some aspects. In my opinion, it becomes quite a challenging class to play as it's more akin to being a specialty class that's focus is maintaining rogue-like status in terms of evasion but without the skills to do so. The majority of the weapons attained cause massive agro and therefore require a lot of attention to your placement if you accidentally do get primaried.

I tend to play sniper-esque classes in every game I play... good at long distance and capable of holding their own at close distance, but under a lot of extra stress to make every bit count. That's why I picked a ranger this time around.

They're flimsy, bow-totin' beasts. <3

[Chippy]

Rangers get SoW at level 30 during kunark I thought.

[Messianic]

Rangers get SoW at level 30 during kunark I thought.

That's mid-early velious

[xshayla701]

Regardless, you're still buying sow potions up to 39 and thats probably in the ballpark of atleast 3k?

Shoot, back in my day I had to run from SK to Neriak without a sow or sow pot. Young akyra was poor :(

Do I sound cool yet?

[YendorLootmonkey]

A few things from the perspective of someone who played a ranger from 1-65 from classic to just before GoD...

As far as "need jboots/sow potions pre-39"... most of the time, if you get into trouble, you're going to snare/rootpark mobs and book it to the zone line. If you're pulling outdoors, you're going to harmony stuff to EZ-mode pull singles. Having SoW available that early is just going to make you sloppy, and it's important to be a well-played ranger if you want to find groups, because a poorly-played ranger offers very little for that 40% XP penalty you're sharing with the group.

SO, for those reasons, unless you've got money to blow, you're not going to get J-Boots or SoW potions for your ranger pre-39. There's gear you need to blow your money on first to make your ranger viable -- armor, HP/STA/STR gear, haste item, and some good weapons. Wait for a pair of 9/19 lammies to come down in price in Kunark... if you can't wait for that, shell out for fangs for a pair of 7/21 EBWs. Don't go for anything that procs... after about level 40, the stuff you have to kill to get XP, you won't want to draw aggro on unless you plan on getting twinked out with nice Kunark gear and maybe then you'd be good until level 50ish in classic zones tanking.

Your biggest issue will be the 40% XP penalty in terms of leveling and finding groups, especially when the server is full of min-maxers who, even despite everything a ranger has to offer in terms of versatility (most of it's already mentioned above, so I won't rehash it here), will still opt for the Holy Trinity (Warrior/Shaman/Cleric) in Kunark and then round out the group with monks/rogues/enchanters/bards for DPS/crowd control/mana regen. That being said, there will be a niche role for certain levels of rangers pulling in the outdoors zones, especially the hunter/forager cycle in TT in Kunark and maybe the named cycle in Frontier Mountains.

The biggest advantage is, of course, the lack of competition for ranger items in XP groups and raids.

Managing your aggro outside of "auto attack off and backing up when the mob starts turning towards you" doesn't become an option until level 55 when you get your first tool to reduce aggro... Jolt. And even then, it's not going to work on magic resistant mobs (which is why Cinder Jolt, the fire-based version, was added in Velious). In fact, you risk a resist and drawing even MORE aggro. So with haste and fast weapons, and double attack/dual wield, if you are not careful you will have aggro issues with Kunark content until you reach 55 and mem Jolt. This is where SK/Pal tanks are nicer to have in groups for you, but then you've got two hybrids in the group and the min-maxing pure classes will go slit their wrists.

This gets even better when you find out your epics are swords that have... 41% haste and a slow proc. Great, more aggro generation without the damage mitigation!

Sparkin's forgetting the hybrid disciplines don't get put in until Velious, so you won't even have the Trueshot or Weaponshield discs in Kunark to look forward to. The best thing to happen to rangers aside from Jolt is the double-damage modifier to archery for stationary, non-rooted mobs... and arguments can be made that unless you have Windstriker (oops, stun proc... more aggro!) or one of the top Kunark bows available, you're still going to max out DPS with melee vs. archery -- although then archery would be at least somewhat viable if you want to still do damage outside of AoE range on a raid.

Is it all worth it? To me, yes, since it's a really fun class and very useful when played by a player willing to adapt to the different roles you can play in a raid/group at a moment's notice. Which is why I rolled one here, knowing full well the hand rangers got dealt a d--

The Spiroc Lord shouts "YENDOR!"
Yendor has been slain by The Spiroc Lord!

[Prince]

rngr sux tbh, make shm or sk both op as fuk

[Noselacri]

Ranger DPS is really not great. It's okay, sort of on the level of a warrior or a rogue who doesn't backstab. Monk DPS is better and they have a clearly defined role in raids, so if you're worried about what class would be "best" to play, fact and logic dictates that it's the monk. You might enjoy the ranger more, especially if you've already played a monk once and it won't be an experience of discovery, but that's something you have to decide for yourself. Ranger is a weak class that can be put to decent use by good players, but those same players could achieve more with just about any other given class. Rangers are good in the hands of good players. Any other class is better in the hands of those same players, because they're good players.

Kunark is especially nice for monks whereas it was kind of a step back for hybrids. That expansion really caters to the class, with vastly improved itemization and a number of unique weapons that are both amazing and universally accessible - anyone can get a Tranquil Staff or an Imbued Fighter's Staff or whatever. The monk epic is also a good deal easier to get than ranger epics. Rangers will be useful in Kunark because of its large outdoor zones and wandering dragons and quest mobs, but I consider that such a small aspect of the class that it would never define the playing experience. You have to really, truly love the ranger class to get over the fact that it is inarguably the worst class in the game until Luclin/PoP. If you can, it'll be an entertaining and uncommon class to play. If not, you'll never be without the nagging feeling that you're sub-par.

[Sparkin]

The monk epic is also a good deal easier to get than ranger epics.

I don't recall the monk epic fights too well off the top of my head but I do know the ranger one is relatively easy once epic fever gets rolling. Certainly no 10+ hour camps involved in the ranger epic a la Raster.

the ranger class to get over the fact that it is inarguably the worst class in the game until Luclin/PoP

It's certainly not inarguable. Knights and mages have to be right up there.

[Noselacri]

Ranger epic requires the shattered emerald of corruption which is unspeakably rare. It can't really be camped, so you have to just wait for it to drop some day and hope you get it. Lots and lots of people simply never did. They increased the drop rate in like 2004 or something and put it on trash mob loot tables as well, so don't trust the allakhazam comments where they say they got it from hideous rats and stuff. It used to only drop off the PoH mini-bosses, and with a 1% chance or so. Considering the competition on this server, less hardcore players will have a hard time getting this.

[Messianic]

I think Rangers got a nice shot in the arm during the velious hybrid revamps. There were a ton of spells that Rangers should have had from the start - firefist, panic animal, etc...And they should have gotten sow at 30 all along. It was very odd to give a level 14 druid spell to a Ranger only once he hit 39. Meanwhile, SK's get the level 29 Necro pet at 49, Paladins get the level 24 heal at 39, etc...It just didn't fit the normal level arrangements for Hybrid spells.

But Noselacri is nearly 100% right - You won't enjoy a Ranger if you just want to be a super bad arse. You best go monk for that.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I don't recall the monk epic fights too well off the top of my head but I do know the ranger one is relatively easy once epic fever gets rolling. Certainly no 10+ hour camps involved in the ranger epic a la Raster.

Yeah, good luck on your drop off of Inny and your drop off Venril Sathir that druids also need for their epic.

[Sparkin]

Ranger epic requires the shattered emerald of corruption which is unspeakably rare. It can't really be camped, so you have to just wait for it to drop some day and hope you get it. Lots and lots of people simply never did. They increased the drop rate in like 2004 or something and put it on trash mob loot tables as well, so don't trust the allakhazam comments where they say they got it from hideous rats and stuff. It used to only drop off the PoH mini-bosses, and with a 1% chance or so. Considering the competition on this server, less hardcore players will have a hard time getting this.

Ehh, like is mentioned above, the emerald originally dropped off Inny himself, every time two at a time I believe. That one wouldn't be too much problem to get since only rangers need it, just a matter of getting up to Hate for an Inny kill.

Yeah, VS would be a bit of a pain here to wait for here, forgot rangers have to share that drop with druids. Still, I believe VS drops 2 at a time, every time, on a 3 day spawn.

[jrwriter]

Vs easy mode inny gona be a pain

[YendorLootmonkey]

Ehh, like is mentioned above, the emerald originally dropped off Inny himself, every time two at a time I believe. That one wouldn't be too much problem to get since only rangers need it, just a matter of getting up to Hate for an Inny kill.

Yeah, VS would be a bit of a pain here to wait for here, forgot rangers have to share that drop with druids. Still, I believe VS drops 2 at a time, every time, on a 3 day spawn.

Except gods will still be instakilled on spawn by quick to mobilize guilds and VS drops Kunark legs so that will be on perma lockdown as well. So, unless you're a ranger in a guild that can poopsock/race for these mobs... probably not as easy as you are making it out to be. Your memory is incorrect or you did epics well after they were put in game. :)

[jrwriter]

This is ghost bro I kno it'll be permanent lock down but vs is easier to get then inny stones will rot eventually

[Noselacri]

Yeah, I'm a bit hazy on the exact details. The fact remains that the ranger epic requires drops that are gonna be pretty much exclusive to a couple of guilds (and they were always pretty rare in the first place) while monk epic is more about camping things in the zones you'd be leveling in anyway.

[Sparkin]

So, unless you're a ranger in a guild that can poopsock/race for these mobs... probably not as easy as you are making it out to be. Your memory is incorrect or you did epics well after they were put in game. :)

Neither, I got mine in early Kunark on a server where guilds worked together.

We'll see. Those guilds that do kill VS *should* offer up the stones somehow after they no longer need them themselves. May auction them off or something? I dunno.

As to the Inny stones, they're going to rot probably after the first kill or two post epics for pretty much any guild (no guild having more than 4 50+ rangers). Again, the guild that kills him will either auction up the stones or simply let rangers loot them if the ranger has the means to get to hate in the first place (they wouldn't have nearly the value of VS stones).

Anyways, I guess monk is *easier* but i personally hate doing anything on this server that requires retarded camps. And like I said, the stone in Hate isn't rare, drops off Inny every time. It only dropped off minibosses post revamp. Nothing needed for ranger epic is rare.

[Rennya]

some truely comical comments here by those who quite clearly played a ranger much later than they claim. Yendor speaks sense. end of discussion.

[Seaweedpimp]

Pretty sure there was a shattered emerald of corruption in the druid epic as well.

I could be cool and research it in the time it took me to post this.

[Prince]

ranger good class to play if you are a masochist

[Salty]

Emerald and Jade reaver were crazy rare.

The emerald was dropping off of nothing but Inoruuk for a long time.