Discussion about what constitutes a camp and how to hold a camp

[Teppler]

Recently I was in a discussion about camps on every quest and it was amazing to me everyone seems to have a different idea even though camps are often highly contetested. It would be good to have the rules plainly in front of us so everyone can be on the same page.

I’m going to start with my interpretation and where it comes from.

From what I understood anything can be a camp. Any 1 mob anyone chooses, they can lock it down if they choose to do so.

It is your camp as long as someone else wasn’t there first. You keep the camp as long as you are keeping your mobs engaged within a few minutes of them spawning. If someone wants the camp and you are sitting around while the mobs you are claiming are up, you forfeit camp. This shouldn’t be any different whether you are a group, solo, duo or trio. You can claim any mob(s) you want as long as you are keeping them down.

This is drawn from this:

In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off..

I don’t see anything about having to be right on top of spawn points, just that you have to keep your spawns killed.

This ruling allows most camps to work as group content. Off the top of my head I think of crypt, howling stones north and west.

Many people think you have to be right on top of spawn points to claim a camp. I don’t see the wording in the quote I posted to support that. Is it right? I’m not sure where it comes from but it would be a ruling that would kill the crypt camp for groups.

Imagine your group is camping crypt for hours but you can’t possibly stand on all your valuable spawn points. Imagine you’ve been camping crypt for hours and shaman a decided to sit on hiero spawn, shaman b decides to sit on duke spawn and shaman c decides to sit on emp spawn.

I don’t believe the rules allow this to happen but maybe I’m wrong.

[Tuurin]

In a static/dungeon area, the rules change once a camp is "contested"- aka, you're killing stuff and another person/group wants a part of what you're killing. The rules say, figure out how to share. If you're killing 10 spawns and someone comes in and contests the camp, whoever was there first gets (group A) gets first dibs on ONE of the spawns, then group B gets to claim a different spawn other than the one that group A claimed. You can't just claim the entire zone and say, "we're keeping them down, so fuck off" to the other people who want to participate. Have to share/play nice. You also can't just walk into a dungeon and claim a spawn either if someone else was there first. Group A gets first pick of the spawns.

Beyond the rules though- it's generally a d-bag move to come in and contest a spawn if there's a group there exp'ing or whatever. It's a big game- find something else to do.

[jackd104]

If a dude is in a place killing stuff, another dude shouldn't come along and interfere. If there's some problem, the dudes should talk it out like grown dudes and come to a solution. If one dude is less of a dude and more like a dude-child, there may not be much the other dude can do and may just have to be the grown dude and move on with their life. Must it be any more complicated?

[loramin]

Personally I've always thought that if you want people to follow the rules of any game, you should make those rules as easy to understand as possible.

In contrast the staff's opinion, as I understand it at least, is that they don't want to codify anything, because they want the ability to make judgements on the fly, and writing down any rules would mean they can't change those rules as necessary to make fair judgements. Because of this, I don't think you will ever see a clear definition of camp, camp stealing, etc. written down.

But, since this topic interests me, I've done my best to learn the "hidden" rules of P99 camps (based on my own experiences and reports from the forums), and I think I can give halfway decent answers to your questions:

From what I understood anything can be a camp. Any 1 mob anyone chooses, they can lock it down if they choose to do so.

Mostly correct, with a couple caveats. FIrst, that's the "outdoor" rule: indoors camp definitions are less clear. Second, even outdoors that doesn't include the exceptions, namely all raid mobs plus a few other special cases.

It is your camp as long as someone else wasn’t there first. You keep the camp as long as you are keeping your mobs engaged within a few minutes of them spawning. If someone wants the camp and you are sitting around while the mobs you are claiming are up, you forfeit camp. This shouldn’t be any different whether you are a group, solo, duo or trio. You can claim any mob(s) you want as long as you are keeping them down.

Again basically all correct, although there's probably some exceptions I'm forgetting, and the definition of "within a few minutes" has never (and probably never will be) defined: it's exactly the number of minutes a GM feels like it should be at that moment.

Many people think you have to be right on top of spawn points to claim a camp. I don’t see the wording in the quote I posted to support that. Is it right? I’m not sure where it comes from but it would be a ruling that would kill the crypt camp for groups.

Again, this comes down to GM discretion. Let's take Droga as an example: when no one is there it's common for one player to do both the Chief and Soothsayer camps, which are almost on opposite ends of the zone (but less than a minute or so apart). In general if you kill Chief, run up to Soothsayer, and then someone logs in at Chief, you will be able to say "even though I'm across the zone at another camp, I'm killing Chief, as you can see because his PH is down, and I'd like to keep the Chief camp, but since I can only have one you can take the Soothsayer (or some other camp)". As long as you make it back to Chief before he respawns, you're golden.

But what if Chief spawns while you're running back? If you make it back 2 seconds after he spawns can you keep claiming it? What about 20 seconds, or 2 minutes? The answer is that there is no answer: it depends entirely the staff member. And it's not even just about them; Llandris (for instance) might normally give you a minute to get back to the camp, but because he saw you rudely cussing the other guy out he may decide to give it to them after only five seconds.

Imagine your group is camping crypt for hours but you can’t possibly stand on all your valuable spawn points. Imagine you’ve been camping crypt for hours and shaman a decided to sit on hiero spawn, shaman b decides to sit on duke spawn and shaman c decides to sit on emp spawn.

I don’t believe the rules allow this to happen but maybe I’m wrong.

So in theory as long as the CE group isn't letting the Crypt mobs stay up for very long (which is easy to ensure with a halfway-decent CE group), no one can take them. The most rules-lawyery thing any of those Shaman can say is "there are 7 total nameds/camps: 4x crypt, cryptkeeper, emp, and blood; you have six people so pick six and I want the last one". But again, indoor camps aren't necessarily a 1 player to 1 mob thing, so the staff could say "no, you can't have any, because they're one camp and the group has it". Or they could agree with the rules lawyer logic ... but no one wants to camp just the cryptkeeper or just the blood, so that never happens.

When it gets interesting is when the CE group can't kill fast enough and Crypt mobs are sitting up for "too long" (where, of course "too long" is defined by the staff at that moment). In that scenario, the GM could either say "sorry CE group, you left those mobs up for so long they became unclaimed, and the Shaman had a right to claim them" OR they could say "sorry CE group, you're trying to camp more mobs than you can kill, you need to pick the top X (probably either 'everything in crypt' or Emp/blood) and let others have the rest."

So in theory it's the amount of time the Crypt mobs are left up that matters: barely any time = group keeps them, awhile = group has to give up some of their spawns, but they get to choose which, and too long = group loses any claim they had. But in practice, since the staff defines "barely any", "awhile", and "too long" as they see fit, it's impossible to describe the rule any better than that.

Obligatory Legalese: I am neither a judge, lawyer, nor staff member of P99, and all of the above is just based on my flawed understanding as a player

[DinoTriz]

If a dude is in a place killing stuff, another dude shouldn't come along and interfere. If there's some problem, the dudes should talk it out like grown dudes and come to a solution. If one dude is less of a dude and more like a dude-child, there may not be much the other dude can do and may just have to be the grown dude and move on with their life. Must it be any more complicated?

Dude Law™

https://i.imgur.com/2TqsLIS.jpg

[Teppler]

Again, this comes down to GM discretion. Let's take Droga as an example: when no one is there it's common for one player to do both the Chief and Soothsayer camps, which are almost on opposite ends of the zone (but less than a minute or so apart). In general if you kill Chief, run up to Soothsayer, and then someone logs in at Chief, you will be able to say "even though I'm across the zone at another camp, I'm killing Chief, as you can see because his PH is down, and I'd like to keep the Chief camp, but since I can only have one you can take the Soothsayer (or some other camp)". As long as you make it back to Chief before he respawns, you're golden.

But what if Chief spawns while you're running back? If you make it back 2 seconds after he spawns can you keep claiming it? What about 20 seconds, or 2 minutes? The answer is that there is no answer: it depends entirely the staff member. And it's not even just about them; Llandris (for instance) might normally give you a minute to get back to the camp, but because he saw you rudely cussing the other guy out he may decide to give it to them after only five seconds.

I think if you go strictly with the way camps work, based on my understanding at least, if that guy is letting his mob pop and he's not engaging within a 1-3 minutes, another player has a right to tell the original camper he's not holding the camp to the letter of the word and put pressure on him. I think it would be bad taste and a bad look to just take his camp but I do think it is morally acceptable to challenge him to keep his mobs down faster if that other person really wants the camp too. And this is going to bring me to my next paragraph.

So in theory as long as the CE group isn't letting the Crypt mobs stay up for very long (which is easy to ensure with a halfway-decent CE group), no one can take them. The most rules-lawyery thing any of those Shaman can say is "there are 7 total nameds/camps: 4x crypt, cryptkeeper, emp, and blood; you have six people so pick six and I want the last one". But again, indoor camps aren't necessarily a 1 player to 1 mob thing, so the staff could say "no, you can't have any, because they're one camp and the group has it". Or they could agree with the rules lawyer logic ... but no one wants to camp just the cryptkeeper or just the blood, so that never happens.

When it gets interesting is when the CE group can't kill fast enough and Crypt mobs are sitting up for "too long" (where, of course "too long" is defined by the staff at that moment). In that scenario, the GM could either say "sorry CE group, you left those mobs up for so long they became unclaimed, and the Shaman had a right to claim them" OR they could say "sorry CE group, you're trying to camp more mobs than you can kill, you need to pick the top X (probably either 'everything in crypt' or Emp/blood) and let others have the rest."

So in theory it's the amount of time the Crypt mobs are left up that matters: barely any time = group keeps them, awhile = group has to give up some of their spawns, but they get to choose which, and too long = group loses any claim they had. But in practice, since the staff defines "barely any", "awhile", and "too long" as they see fit, it's impossible to describe the rule any better than that.

Obligatory Legalese: I am neither a judge, lawyer, nor staff member of P99, and all of the above is just based on my flawed understanding as a player

Personally I've always played it safe and wait for the whole crypt to spawn before I even think about taking a camp there. After whole camp is spawned, I think you've lost the camp. It's probably still good taste to give them 4-5 minutes after that but I think that should come down to the discretion of whoever is currently at the camp.

A half decent crypt team will, indeed, be able to keep emp and crypt down with plenty of time to spare.

Now how about someone soloing hiero, duke and baron. The best cash mobs in crypt. Let's say a soloer(certainly not me >:D) is camping all 3 and is keeping them down with time to spare. Can a group walk right in and take 2 of these spawns? I don't see anything in the rules that allows for that. Do solo people have less rights than groups? How about duos? Trios? 4 people? 5 people?

Would it be so bad to put a time limit on when you lose camp or mob? Like you have 3 or 4 minutes to engage something after it spawns or you lose claim to it?

[maximum]

For those looking for the 2013 Play Nice Policy, here it is https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

#2 is about "Contested Spawns" and camping

[fastboy21]

The only thing that will adequately handle someone who actively seeks to be a jerk is a direct GM babysitter. The server doesn't have enough of these...and the few we have don't deserve to be treated like babysitters for man children that want to shove as many pixels into their fat faces as possible.

You don't need a rule clarification. You need to return to kindergarten on the day they taught everyone about sharing and playing nice. Stop wasting people's time with your man child lifestyle.

[loramin]

I think if you go strictly with the way camps work, based on my understanding at least, if that guy is letting his mob pop and he's not engaging within a 1-3 minutes, another player has a right to tell the original camper he's not holding the camp to the letter of the word and put pressure on him.

Personally I've never seen that "1-3 minutes" figured specified anywhere. AFAIK the amount of time is entirely up to whichever GM answers the petition (although it will probably be in that general ballpark).

Let's say a soloer(certainly not me >:D) is camping all 3 and is keeping them down with time to spare. Can a group walk right in and take 2 of these spawns? I don't see anything in the rules that allows for that. Do solo people have less rights than groups? How about duos? Trios? 4 people? 5 people?

Solo people don't have less rights, but they certainly don't have more either. In general, everyone on the server gets to claim one spawn point, period, end of story. You can absolutely camp more than that if no one wants them, but the moment anyone else wants one of those mobs you get one (of your choice), they get one (their choice of what's left) and the rest are FTE (first to engage).

So yes they can walk right up and take not just one but two spawns ... but whoever was there first gets to keep the Heiro spawn (or whichever one they prefer). This would be true even if it was a single person or duo who walked up and not a group.

As for the rest of your question, it again falls into the "its up to the staff" category. They can choose to call Crypt one camp, and say your group of 2, or 3, or whatever can hold that whole camp. Or they can decide that you have two (or three) people so you can hold two (or three) spawn points. Again, AFAK there is no official definition of what is/isn't a camp, and therefore nothing specifies which way the staff has to rule.

Would it be so bad to put a time limit on when you lose camp or mob? Like you have 3 or 4 minutes to engage something after it spawns or you lose claim to it?

Personally I think any further rules clarification would be good ... but then again I don't have to host a server with thousands of assholes like myself on it, and then get a bunch of my friends to volunteer their time to manage it. If I did I'd probably be more sympathetic to their point of view, ie. that specifying 3, 4, or any specific number of minutes would remove their ability to adjust rulings on the fly, which is something they need to be able to "babysit" this server properly.

[Canelek]

whats that guys name? he is fascinatingly pretty

alice

Jude Law

Dude Law

[Canelek]

Also:

Ya know, there are a lot of good camps out there. If someone sees fit to rule-lawyer, that is their choice and right.

That said, it seems rather childish, trite and mememe-ish, dontcha think? I mean, sure, if Group A members are being jerks, but why bother normally? People are generally decent elfhobbits on this server.

Common sense and communication are helpful if you aren't an insane person. Of course, I've seen level 60 folks murdering level 25 hobbit wall-walkers for 10pp/kill, so there is certainly a P99 segment that sucks down too many welfare meds to earn pixelfunds so...

[MagpieRockyl]

if jude law cucked me i would understand.

I would be upset and feel threatened. but i wwould understand

[kaluppo]

Good thread. I had wondered about this ever since I was challenged for upper bear pits camp in permafrost. There are nine mobs that everyone kills at the camp. The way I would do it is kill the first two bears, then the two mobs behind them, then the three mobs by the stairs and finally two of the three wolves in the back room (most people don't kill the third because it does not agro and cannot be pulled with any spells).

Now at this point I am usually 20m and need to med up before I am ready to rinse and repeat. So I sit at the spot where the two bears that started the cycle will re-pop. They usually re-pop when I am about 60m. I need to be FM so I sit and stare at them for a few minutes until I get to FM and then I clear the camp again.

But that few minutes of medding when the two bears have re-popped always made me wonder if anyone could come and pull them right in front of me. I guess the answer is maybe yes and maybe no depending on the GM's mood that day :P

[Teppler]

Personally I've never seen that "1-3 minutes" figured specified anywhere. AFAIK the amount of time is entirely up to whichever GM answers the petition (although it will probably be in that general ballpark).

I've never seen 1-3 minutes written anywhere either. That's just my own personal opinion on the play nice etiquette as the bare minimum. If someone jumps a camp in a minute I would consider that out of line.

Solo people don't have less rights, but they certainly don't have more either. In general, everyone on the server gets to claim one spawn point, period, end of story. You can absolutely camp more than that if no one wants them, but the moment anyone else wants one of those mobs you get one (of your choice), they get one (their choice of what's left) and the rest are FTE (first to engage).

So yes they can walk right up and take not just one but two spawns ... but whoever was there first gets to keep the Heiro spawn (or whichever one they prefer). This would be true even if it was a single person or duo who walked up and not a group.

As for the rest of your question, it again falls into the "its up to the staff" category. They can choose to call Crypt one camp, and say your group of 2, or 3, or whatever can hold that whole camp. Or they can decide that you have two (or three) people so you can hold two (or three) spawn points. Again, AFAK there is no official definition of what is/isn't a camp, and therefore nothing specifies which way the staff has to rule.



Here's what I can't understand. Solo people don't have more or less rights than groups. Then why can groups run around camps and not maintain presence right on top of their spawn points yet still claim ownership of the camp yet solo people can't also run from different spawn points and hold down multiple mobs in camps? If solo people have equal rights, why can't a soloer call duke from hiero room but a group can call emp from crypt room?

Personally I think any further rules clarification would be good ... but then again I don't have to host a server with thousands of assholes like myself on it, and then get a bunch of my friends to volunteer their time to manage it. If I did I'd probably be more sympathetic to their point of view, ie. that specifying 3, 4, or any specific number of minutes would remove their ability to adjust rulings on the fly, which is something they need to be able to "babysit" this server properly.

I do agree on all of this. It's easy for me to add my 2 cents in from my limited experience. I'm talking from longer camps but waiting 3-4 minutes on lets say 6 minute camps is excessive and wouldn't work. I do understand their need for flexibility.

[fastboy21]

People tend not to like solo farmers that monopolize content when a group wants to do the same thing. It has nothing to do with rights or rules, its a community / EQ player culture.

Its just the nature of the EQ beast: folks generally don't like solo farmers that play in popular "group" areas. It was largely the same way on live too.

[loramin]

Then why can groups run around camps and not maintain presence right on top of their spawn points yet still claim ownership of the camp yet solo people can't also run from different spawn points and hold down multiple mobs in camps?

Soloers can absolutely run around leaving their camp behind, as long as they get back in time. As I said about Droga, you can kill the Chief, run to the other end of the zone, possibly kill the Soothsayer (if he's unclaimed) and run back. It wouldn't matter if a full group of players had all been waiting at the chief camp the entire time you were gone: as long as you got back before the Chief spawns it's still your camp.

Where it gets murky is what happens if you come back after your camp respawns. This certainly should encourage people who are eager to snipe someone else's camp to wait a more than reasonable amount of time before taking over, because their "reasonable amount of time" might not be the same as a GM's.

If solo people have equal rights, why can't a soloer call duke from hiero room but a group can call emp from crypt room?

Technically the crypt group can't. Let's say a group calls CE, goes to the crypt, finishes it off, and starts walking over to Emp, but at that moment another group logs in outside the Emp room and goes inside first. That group gets the Emp, because it doesn't matter what the Crypt group may have called, the login group was the First to Engage the unclaimed Emp.

Or at least, if you assume the staff would consider C and E as separate camps. You never know for sure. Anyhow, the important thing is, 99.9% of the time no one else wants Emp, so that's why everyone calls both C and E at once.

The other issue is the one person, one camp principle. Like I said before, GMs define indoor camps however they want, so there doesn't have to be a one player to one named ratio ... but even if there was, a group of 6 can claim 6 of the 7 CE spawns, and no one else wants the 7th mob.

So even by the most lawyerly count, a group of six players can claim 6 mobs and then FTE the (unwanted) 7th. But you as a solo player can only claim one spawn (Heiro). You can kill Duke or anything else while your Heiro is respawning, but only if no one else has claimed it and you engage first.

... again, as I understand things.

[Teppler]

Can no one truly claim north in howling stones if they are soloing? Can a group come in and take over?

[fastboy21]

Can no one truly claim north in howling stones if they are soloing? Can a group come in and take over?

You're trying to extrapolate an answer to a specific question, to which you want a certain answer, by asking questions that aren't relevant.

Yes, someone solo'ing can probably claim the named in HS north. No, a group probably can't come in and take over. Howling Stones north isn't Sebilis crypt (no matter how much you want it to be).

The rules don't exist so that folks can get away with doing things that are against the spirit of the rules.

This is why the rules are left general and GMs are given the latitude to examine situations on a case by case basis, use precedent, and apply the general principles of the rules.

[Wonkie]

please don't teach teppler how to steal camps

[Foxplay]

When I solo farm I don't go to zones that are popular with groups

Not because I can't make a profit in those zones...

It's cause I'm not a dick... Why bother getting 6ppl mad at me on a daily basis when there is other things I can do that won't pee in anyone elses Cheerios.

[Swish2]

One of the great features about the red server is you don't need to pre-read an encyclopedia of rules, and rules made about those rules before you play.

[Teppler]

You're trying to extrapolate an answer to a specific question, to which you want a certain answer, by asking questions that aren't relevant.

Yes, someone solo'ing can probably claim the named in HS north. No, a group probably can't come in and take over. Howling Stones north isn't Sebilis crypt (no matter how much you want it to be).

The rules don't exist so that folks can get away with doing things that are against the spirit of the rules.

This is why the rules are left general and GMs are given the latitude to examine situations on a case by case basis, use precedent, and apply the general principles of the rules.

Well there are 3 named spawns in north and a boss.

How about basement where there aren’t even any names? Can someone solo basement and claim it?

That would be a soloer monopolizing group content which you said is a no-no. See this is where it gets difficult.

How about this- does it matter how crowded a zone is at any given time? Is that something to take into consideration?

The other side of the coin is that there’s other places for groups to exp too. It’s not like groups are running out of level appropriate camps to do.

[Troxx]

The only thing that will adequately handle someone who actively seeks to be a jerk is a direct GM babysitter. The server doesn't have enough of these...and the few we have don't deserve to be treated like babysitters for man children that want to shove as many pixels into their fat faces as possible.

You don't need a rule clarification. You need to return to kindergarten on the day they taught everyone about sharing and playing nice. Stop wasting people's time with your man child lifestyle.

[Teppler]

Soloers can absolutely run around leaving their camp behind, as long as they get back in time. As I said about Droga, you can kill the Chief, run to the other end of the zone, possibly kill the Soothsayer (if he's unclaimed) and run back. It wouldn't matter if a full group of players had all been waiting at the chief camp the entire time you were gone: as long as you got back before the Chief spawns it's still your camp.

Where it gets murky is what happens if you come back after your camp respawns. This certainly should encourage people who are eager to snipe someone else's camp to wait a more than reasonable amount of time before taking over, because their "reasonable amount of time" might not be the same as a GM's.



Technically the crypt group can't. Let's say a group calls CE, goes to the crypt, finishes it off, and starts walking over to Emp, but at that moment another group logs in outside the Emp room and goes inside first. That group gets the Emp, because it doesn't matter what the Crypt group may have called, the login group was the First to Engage the unclaimed Emp.

Or at least, if you assume the staff would consider C and E as separate camps. You never know for sure. Anyhow, the important thing is, 99.9% of the time no one else wants Emp, so that's why everyone calls both C and E at once.

The other issue is the one person, one camp principle. Like I said before, GMs define indoor camps however they want, so there doesn't have to be a one player to one named ratio ... but even if there was, a group of 6 can claim 6 of the 7 CE spawns, and no one else wants the 7th mob.

So even by the most lawyerly count, a group of six players can claim 6 mobs and then FTE the (unwanted) 7th. But you as a solo player can only claim one spawn (Heiro). You can kill Duke or anything else while your Heiro is respawning, but only if no one else has claimed it and you engage first.

... again, as I understand things.

If you get most lawyerly, no, groups cannot maintain presence on 6 or 7 spawns. They have to group up and work together. Melees need to be DPSing on top of mobs. Bards need to be close for their songs. Chanters need to be close to CC. And so on. So technically, you would need 3 people at a minimum to do 2 spawns points if you want to maintain a presence on top of spawn points.

I mean it's pretty clear through this discussion that solo, duo, trio have less rights than groups. And that's fine if that's the way it is. At the end of the day we are at the mercy of the staff. But lets just come out and say it. Solo, duo or trio people can be pushed around and out of content that they were holding if a group desires to take it from them in certain situations. And in the same way, it can't be done to groups.

It sounds like you think not all GMs will rule that way but lets say 50% of them do. If you roll the dice and challenge groups as a soloer and 50% of the GMs disagree, you are going to get in trouble pretty quick. Maybe not the first occurrence but by occasion 3-4 the odds are you will be.

[Rang]

Squats in heiro camp.
Teppler lawyers it from group.
Logs off. Sleeps alone.

[Tuurin]

Do you guys not read? The link to the rules was already posted, and seems pretty clear.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

Soloer/group is treated the same- if a "camp" is contested, you have to work to figure it out and compromise. Nobody get to "steal" a camp from someone who's already there, but nobody gets to tell someone/a group to fuck off if they are asking to share/contest the camps. Whoever was there first gets first dibs on the named spawn, but have to share the overall spawns if another group asks to.

Not sure what's vague about this.

[Baylan295]

Can no one truly claim north in howling stones if they are soloing? Can a group come in and take over?

I have, myself, kept down almost all of North short of the boss room. If a group wants to come in, North is considered a camp by... everyone I know, and they can have the boss room. In fact, usually I would offer the boss room. If they wanted to be dicks and take one of the side rooms, I guess they would be entitled to do it, but neither the loot nor the experience would be good enough for a group in any of the side rooms.

[Valakut]

Recently I was in a discussion about camps on every quest and it was amazing to me everyone seems to have a different idea even though camps are often highly contetested. It would be good to have the rules plainly in front of us so everyone can be on the same page.

I’m going to start with my interpretation and where it comes from.

From what I understood anything can be a camp. Any 1 mob anyone chooses, they can lock it down if they choose to do so.

It is your camp as long as someone else wasn’t there first. You keep the camp as long as you are keeping your mobs engaged within a few minutes of them spawning. If someone wants the camp and you are sitting around while the mobs you are claiming are up, you forfeit camp. This shouldn’t be any different whether you are a group, solo, duo or trio. You can claim any mob(s) you want as long as you are keeping them down.

This is drawn from this:



I don’t see anything about having to be right on top of spawn points, just that you have to keep your spawns killed.

This ruling allows most camps to work as group content. Off the top of my head I think of crypt, howling stones north and west.

Many people think you have to be right on top of spawn points to claim a camp. I don’t see the wording in the quote I posted to support that. Is it right? I’m not sure where it comes from but it would be a ruling that would kill the crypt camp for groups.

Imagine your group is camping crypt for hours but you can’t possibly stand on all your valuable spawn points. Imagine you’ve been camping crypt for hours and shaman a decided to sit on hiero spawn, shaman b decides to sit on duke spawn and shaman c decides to sit on emp spawn.

I don’t believe the rules allow this to happen but maybe I’m wrong.

"From what I understood anything can be a camp. Any 1 mob anyone chooses, they can lock it down if they choose to do so. "

- This only counts for outdoor zones

"You keep the camp as long as you are keeping your mobs engaged within a few minutes of them spawning. If someone wants the camp and you are sitting around while the mobs you are claiming are up, you forfeit camp. This shouldn’t be any different whether you are a group, solo, duo or trio. You can claim any mob(s) you want as long as you are keeping them down."

- I would not expect a few minutes from anyone. I'd say if you got a full minute that would be very generous. If you are in an outdoor zone you can camp/claim 1 spawn and if you're duo or trio then each person can hold down 1 spawn only if they are 100% only killing that one mob. If you're killing pathers or other random shit while trying to camp that single spawn then you've forfeited the camp. If you are in an indoor zone then there are generally certain mobs associated with camps that are within proximity of the named. If you can burn the named but can't clear the trash and maintain the camp then you aren't camping it. If you can kill the entire camp but don't touch the trash then you are camping it.

Actively camping and maintaining a camp are two key adjectives that are slightly open to interpretation. This is where player made agreements come into play. If 2 people are at odds on the camp rules then they should try to come to a mutual agreement even if the agreement is unorthodox. If no agreement can be made and a GM is involved then the GM can do whatever they want which may include neither person being able to camp that area for any given period of time.

If you live by the lawyerquest then you will die by the lawyerquest. Typically certain guilds have reputations for being fair or sharing and so you work extra hard to share with them. Other guilds are turds and so you should not give one inch because you won't receive the same consideration. This makes camp ruling difficult for the unguilded but there is a guild for everyone out there.

[Rang]

You guys are trying to rationalize with a person who was one of those kids in class who keeps raising their hand to correct the teacher because they "know better". He tries to claim both heriophant and duke while not clearing ICGs or the other skeleton names and thinks that is legit because he had been there "for hours". Hate to break it to ya neckbeard Teppler, but that's not how camps work.

https://i.imgur.com/abuYNql.png

[Teppler]

I have, myself, kept down almost all of North short of the boss room. If a group wants to come in, North is considered a camp by... everyone I know, and they can have the boss room. In fact, usually I would offer the boss room. If they wanted to be dicks and take one of the side rooms, I guess they would be entitled to do it, but neither the loot nor the experience would be good enough for a group in any of the side rooms.

Crypt is no different but people are saying a solo person can't claim all of crypt or eventually a GM is going to rule against you. If you're going to have a ruling like that to crypt, I really don't understand the consistency is saying a solo person can camp all of howling stones north. Or any other camp that works like this for the matter.... and there's a lot of them.

Do you have to be on top of your 1 spawn or not as a soloer? Or 2 spawn points as a duo etc... Howling stones north has multiple valuable rooms, just like crypt.

I've done the whole north wing and have kept all the spawns down too which is why I specifically asked and am using North Wing of Howling Stones as an example.

You're absolutely right that everyone plays that way to interpret North as one camp and a soloer can claim it but through this topic it's being established that a group has a right to push you around in that situation because at the end of the day a solo person can be bogged down to only 1 spawn point.

[MagpieRockyl]

tepp you're 100% right

[NegaStoat]

Five years ago the answer to this question was simple, even from the GM's. A camp was a set of spawns that are in Line of Sight of each other AND reasonably close to each other, which could be held by as few as one player as long as the spawns remained constantly broken to one single being up at any given time.
A single player could hold the Sister camp in Lesser Faydark. A single player could hold all of a given chamber in Guk. No one really petitioned this sort of thing unless a single player was hopping from chamber to chamber in a dungeon to kill key loot drops in a fairly robust manner, and even then the person doing the mass killing knew what a GM would say so they would negotiate with the newcomer as to how the mobs would be divided, with the first person getting first pick.

Fast forward to now. A player can now only camp ONE (1) mob outdoors of ANY KIND and have it be theirs. If you want more than that, you better have people in your party to match the number of spawns you want to keep down. Been there, done that, had dwarves in Butcherblock Docks ripped off as a result which never would have happened 5 years ago.
Dungeon spawn claiming is a complete mess. The old line of sight rule was tossed out the window for some reason. It's literally the old west now where you can hold a reasonable camp, a person can walk in, and if either kicks off a petition a crabby GM will rule with dartboard justice. No offense to the game staff here - you've put up with an enormous load of crap over the years. I get it.

The point of my rant is this. The power to change things is entirely in the player's hands if they want. If someone on the forum made up their OWN rules about outdoor and indoor camping that seemed fair and reasonable and got a poll running which carried something like a 70% vote of approval, the server staff would probably breathe a sigh of relief along with a "It's about fuggin' TIME." and enforce it until the plug is pulled.

[Dreenk317]

Crypt is no different but people are saying a solo person can't claim all of crypt or eventually a GM is going to rule against you. If you're going to have a ruling like that to crypt, I really don't understand the consistency is saying a solo person can camp all of howling stones north. Or any other camp that works like this for the matter.... and there's a lot of them.

Do you have to be on top of your 1 spawn or not as a soloer? Or 2 spawn points as a duo etc... Howling stones north has multiple valuable rooms, just like crypt.

I've done the whole north wing and have kept all the spawns down too which is why I specifically asked and am using North Wing of Howling Stones as an example.

You're absolutely right that everyone plays that way to interpret North as one camp and a soloer can claim it but through this topic it's being established that a group has a right to push you around in that situation because at the end of the day a solo person can be bogged down to only 1 spawn point.

You can solo crypt. Not against the rules. Issue is that crypt is 4 named spawns. And it can be argued that all 4 are seperate little camps as they all spawn in there own little rooms. Which means, it could be argued ou have to give up some of them and pick one to hold if another group comes in.

[loramin]

I would not expect a few minutes from anyone. I'd say if you got a full minute that would be very generous. If you are in an outdoor zone you can camp/claim 1 spawn and if you're duo or trio then each person can hold down 1 spawn only if they are 100% only killing that one mob. If you're killing pathers or other random shit while trying to camp that single spawn then you've forfeited the camp.

As a spawn camper you shouldn't expect even one second: you should always do your best to be at your camp the moment the mob spawns. But as someone who is trying to take a camp from someone who isn't keeping it clear, I would strongly encourage you to A) send them a tell, and B) give them as much time as you can (ie. probably more than a minute), because you don't know whether a GM will agree that a minute is enough.

Look, for all you know the guy was religiously holding down the camp for hours, and then right when you showed up their kid was about to walk off a balcony and they had to go run and grab them or something. Maybe they deserve more than a minute. But even if they don't, a GM might think they do, so it's better to be safe/nice and wait awhile ... long enough that if the guy does petition, you feel sure a GM will agree that you waited the right amount of time.

If you are in an indoor zone then there are generally certain mobs associated with camps that are within proximity of the named. If you can burn the named but can't clear the trash and maintain the camp then you aren't camping it. If you can kill the entire camp but don't touch the trash then you are camping it.

False (as I understand it). The surrounding mobs have nothing to do with your camp. If you can pacify every mob around Emp (not sure that's possible, but hypothetically) and then you were able to kill Emp while leaving those mobs up, you 100% could claim and maintain a camp on Emp.

Again, as I understand it, there is no obligation whatsoever to have to keep any other mob down in order to claim a specific mob; all that matters is that you keep the specific mob down.

I really don't understand the consistency is saying a solo person can camp all of howling stones north. Or any other camp that works like this for the matter.... and there's a lot of them.

HS (North or any other camp) is no different than anywhere else. If for some crazy reason there's 80 people soloing in HS (maybe Rogean does a +200% bonus weekend?) then there can be 80 different "camps", because the one of the golden rules of P99 is that everyone has to share and each player can only claim one camp (ie. usually one spawn point).

But in practice there are never 80 people in HS, so this never comes up. Normally if someone has HS North already the next guy won't force them to split the camp, they'll just take South, or East, or another unclaimed camp. It's only if two players both want a certain spawn (eg. Drussela) that the rules get involved, and then whoever was camping Drussela first gets to keep her and the second person can claim a different named in East.

Do you have to be on top of your 1 spawn or not as a soloer? Howling stones north has multiple valuable rooms, just like crypt.

You absolutely have to be on top of your 1 spawn, in the sense that you need to engage almost as soon as it spawns. But if you are camping Drusella and no one else is in East you can go kill the rest of east (eg. Howling Spectre) because you're the first to engage an unclaimed mob. This is how one person "camps" all of East: they're technically camping one spawn, it's just no one is competing for the other mobs.

it's being established that a group has a right to push you around in that situation because at the end of the day a solo person can be bogged down to only 1 spawn point.

That's not "pushing around" anyone. Let's remove specific zones/mobs. You're in Fantasy Zone with 20 named mobs all in one room. You're a soloer killing the top N mobs of that 20, and suddenly six other soloers show up. Now you get the best of those 20, because you were there first. The six soloers get the next best of those 20 (in the order they showed up). Everyone gets one mob (fair), you as the first player got your choice (fair), and y'all race to get any of the remaining 13 unclaimed mobs (fair).

It's the exact same thing when a group moves in on a soloer (in Fantasy Zone, crypt, or anywhere else). You now have seven people where there was one, the one keeps their choice mob, and the remaining six take six more. The only difference is that in the right places a group could potentially claim a "camp" of more than six nameds (eg. a GM could rule all of CE is one camp, so even though it's seven mobs six people can claim them), so if for some odd reason a soloer showed up after a group was there they might not even be able to take the 7th mob (eg. cryptkeeper). In practice we'll never know because no one wants to camp only the cryptkeeper (the 7th mob).

[fastboy21]

Do you guys not read? The link to the rules was already posted, and seems pretty clear.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

Soloer/group is treated the same- if a "camp" is contested, you have to work to figure it out and compromise. Nobody get to "steal" a camp from someone who's already there, but nobody gets to tell someone/a group to fuck off if they are asking to share/contest the camps. Whoever was there first gets first dibs on the named spawn, but have to share the overall spawns if another group asks to.

Not sure what's vague about this.

The part that needs a ruling from a GM is to determine which mobs are the same camp and which mobs are a different camp. You are entitled to hold only one camp. If you are taking multiple camps then you'd have to pick if someone contests one of them. Is the Crypt one camp? Is it four camps? The answer to that question would change the appropriate outcome. Only a GM can make that ruling, it has absolutely nothing to do with what it "should" be or what it was "back on live on my server" --- it is entirely up to the GM to make a decision.

Most highly disputed camps have had this question answered on p99, and generally most veterans on p99 know the "case law" needed to move from the rules to actually resolving a specific area's status.

Classic example: Hands/WL in KC. Most groups consider it to be one camp, but GMs have specifically ruled that it is, in fact, to be considered as two camps. You can make an argument for why it ought to be one way or another, but the in our system you can't specifically answer this question until a GM rules on it. The ruling is that its two camps.

There is an issue with many players on p99 not really knowing the "case law" and there not being a great single online repository (I'm sure you can forum search to find GM posts on many camps). The result can be player conflict --- not just because of asshatery --- but because two parties will both honestly think that they are right about how the camp ought to be considered.

[Menden]

Enjoy...

Again, this comes down to GM discretion. Let's take Droga as an example: when no one is there it's common for one player to do both the Chief and Soothsayer camps, which are almost on opposite ends of the zone (but less than a minute or so apart). In general if you kill Chief, run up to Soothsayer, and then someone logs in at Chief, you will be able to say "even though I'm across the zone at another camp, I'm killing Chief, as you can see because his PH is down, and I'd like to keep the Chief camp, but since I can only have one you can take the Soothsayer (or some other camp)". As long as you make it back to Chief before he respawns, you're golden.

But what if Chief spawns while you're running back? If you make it back 2 seconds after he spawns can you keep claiming it? What about 20 seconds, or 2 minutes? The answer is that there is no answer: it depends entirely the staff member. And it's not even just about them; Llandris (for instance) might normally give you a minute to get back to the camp, but because he saw you rudely cussing the other guy out he may decide to give it to them after only five seconds.

In a dungeon, if you're camping 2 named/spawn points in different areas of a zone and another player wants you to share, you get to pick one. Keep in mind, if we get a petition that someone is stealing their camp and that new player kills a mob that has been up a reasonable amount of time, we may side with that new player because you were not holding the camp.


Personally I've always played it safe and wait for the whole crypt to spawn before I even think about taking a camp there. After whole camp is spawned, I think you've lost the camp. It's probably still good taste to give them 4-5 minutes after that but I think that should come down to the discretion of whoever is currently at the camp.

A half decent crypt team will, indeed, be able to keep emp and crypt down with plenty of time to spare.

Now how about someone soloing hiero, duke and baron. The best cash mobs in crypt. Let's say a soloer(certainly not me >) is camping all 3 and is keeping them down with time to spare. Can a group walk right in and take 2 of these spawns? I don't see anything in the rules that allows for that. Do solo people have less rights than groups? How about duos? Trios? 4 people? 5 people?

Would it be so bad to put a time limit on when you lose camp or mob? Like you have 3 or 4 minutes to engage something after it spawns or you lose claim to it?

Crypt issues infuriate me. People get petty over dumb stuff, honestly guys, if someone/duo/group/whatever is at spot 17 and is keeping all the mobs down, leave them be. I mean, the area could be viewed like the HHK goblins as multiple camps, but in reality it's just a douche move. A Guide/GM could interpret it as a single camp or multiple so you are taking a risk contesting that area, every situation is different.

For dungeons, we tell folks agro range/LOS. This works for almost everything. The exceptions could be KC Captain or seb king/crypt. If there's people there, just go somewhere else. Don't be douche.

But that few minutes of medding when the two bears have re-popped always made me wonder if anyone could come and pull them right in front of me. I guess the answer is maybe yes and maybe no depending on the GM's mood that day :P

Douche move to take your stuff while medding, about the GM's mood. Pretty much.

Here's what I can't understand. Solo people don't have more or less rights than groups. Then why can groups run around camps and not maintain presence right on top of their spawn points yet still claim ownership of the camp yet solo people can't also run from different spawn points and hold down multiple mobs in camps? If solo people have equal rights, why can't a soloer call duke from hiero room but a group can call emp from crypt room?

Solo/Group can run around to as many camps as they want till contested. Once contested they must return to the area they are camping and stay there but they are taking a risk while doing this and should really consider responding to a CC. Do keep in mind there's mobs that are 99% of the time contested. Like AC in oot, don't kill him/ph then go run around, that's dumb. Or SF, don't "claim" SF then run around, that's also dumb.

EQ is a very social game, we expect players to communicate.


Do you guys not read? The link to the rules was already posted, and seems pretty clear.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

Soloer/group is treated the same- if a "camp" is contested, you have to work to figure it out and compromise. Nobody get to "steal" a camp from someone who's already there, but nobody gets to tell someone/a group to fuck off if they are asking to share/contest the camps. Whoever was there first gets first dibs on the named spawn, but have to share the overall spawns if another group asks to.

Not sure what's vague about this.

Huh, someone actually read the guidelines, I like you.

"From what I understood anything can be a camp. Any 1 mob anyone chooses, they can lock it down if they choose to do so. "

- This only counts for outdoor zones

Mostly true. But they must engage the mob quickly, like AC in oot. My best advise is if you want to camp a single spawn point in an outdoor/open zone, sit on that point.



The bottom line is, don't be a douche. People in Crypt able to hold it by themselves? People killing all the sisters in lfay? People in zone out room killing king? Sure, some of these places are out of LOS/agro range, but you know what? These are player defined camps, it's been this way for a long long time. Sure, some player defined camps we won't recognize, but it's the nice thing for you to do. You REALLY do not want us involved in camp mediation, there are several outcomes to it you may not like. Examples could be, forced out of the zone, suspended for a few hours/days or DT. Don't rule lawyer us during a dispute, accept our ruling and move on.

I'll end with, I have play toons, as all Guides do. I have my favorite camping spots. If I see someone there, guess what I do? Either play another toon or have a conversation with them on how long they plan on camping it. I know communicating is hard, but I know you can do it.

[Teppler]

Thank you very much. Appreciated.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

The bottom line is, don't be a douche.

There you have it Teppler. What everyone has already been telling you. If you actually require rules in place to guide you on how to communicate like an adult and not be a douche, then you are in fact a douche. Hope you get help soon!

[Rang]

https://i.imgur.com/LSbj4nz.gif

[Canelek]

If there's people there, just go somewhere else. Don't be douche.

[ghimmhala]

Here is one that I know is true.

Monk A is camping Nobles and Bards in HHK for hours.
Monk B shows up and wants Bards or nobles.
Monk A has to chose which he wants to camp Nobles or Bards.

[Legidias]

Trick question, Shaman mafia has all nobles and bards camped

[Teppler]

There you have it Teppler. What everyone has already been telling you. If you actually require rules in place to guide you on how to communicate like an adult and not be a douche, then you are in fact a douche. Hope you get help soon!

I’m sorry you’re such a scrub that none of this matters to you but this has been a great discussion for anyone who has been in a tense situation with camps and not sure what is right.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

I’m sorry you’re such a scrub that none of this matters to you but this has been a great discussion for anyone who has been in a tense situation with camps and not sure what is right.

Don’t be a Teppler.

[MagpieRockyl]

Tepp Is p o s
No one even mom like him
Real loser clearly

[Mead]

Do you guys not read? The link to the rules was already posted, and seems pretty clear.
https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

Soloer/group is treated the same- if a "camp" is contested, you have to work to figure it out and compromise. Nobody get to "steal" a camp from someone who's already there, but nobody gets to tell someone/a group to fuck off if they are asking to share/contest the camps. Whoever was there first gets first dibs on the named spawn, but have to share the overall spawns if another group asks to.

Not sure what's vague about this.

lol I was wondering this myself until I ran into your post. It's been pretty clear for a long time now.

[Teppler]

Tepp Is p o s
No one even mom like him
Real loser clearly

Looks like skarlorn is so obsessed he can’t help but work on ban #2 within the same month as ban #1. I wonder what’s the point staff says it’s not worth the trouble anymore and makes it a perm.

[Argh]

Lol good job clearing this up guys.

[Carkle Jackson]

I’m sorry you’re such a scrub that none of this matters to you but this has been a great discussion for anyone who has been in a tense situation with camps and not sure what is right.

You don't know what's right
Due to flawed moral compass
Steroids can't fix that

I find your obsession with Teppler disturbing... Even if he is a dirtbag. And some of your Teppler haikus aren't great. This one made me laugh though. Hard.

[aaezil]

if a player or group is holding a <word we refuse to define> and another group wants to contest a <word we refuse to define>, then its really anyones guess since its <undefined>

[Tuurin]

if a player or group is holding a <word we refuse to define> and another group wants to contest a <word we refuse to define>, then its really anyones guess since its <undefined>

Ok, so your preference is that the CS staff define every single camp in every single zone in the game? The official policy is already posted in the wiki and a guide has already commented in this thread with about as much clarity as necessary for any rational adult.

If you want instanced dungeons or something, there are a number of games out there that offer that. This is CLASSIC EVERQUEST. It's an open world game. You have to talk to people and/or compromise sometimes. The "don't be a douche" guideline is really all that should be necessary most of the time.

[Sguchi]

-trys to hold back laughter-

red is here for you if you need a shoulder to cry on friends

[Mead]

Theoretically speaking there are 5 camps in crypt (duke, hiero, baron, harbinger, and caretaker) and 2 in emp (emp and blood). So you could have 7 different people or groups camping each spot.

Did I win?

[fastboy21]

Theoretically speaking there are 5 camps in crypt (duke, hiero, baron, harbinger, and caretaker) and 2 in emp (emp and blood). So you could have 7 different people or groups camping each spot.

Did I win?

No. Those are the rules you just made up.

[Troxx]

The bottom line is, don't be a douche.

Take a minute to read this portion of the quote repeatedly Teppler.

That's the big take away.

[Mead]

No. Those are the rules you just made up.

I did?

[Teppler]

Take a minute to read this portion of the quote repeatedly Teppler.

That's the big take away.

You mean like make a post like you just did?

[fastboy21]

I did?

yes. 1 spawn <> 1 camp.

there can be multiple spawns in a single camp.

[Raavak]

Being a social game, playing alongside hundreds of other people, the best rule is "don't be a douche". Another rule is "play smart".

Like a few months ago in South Karana someone was killing the gnolls at the spires. Someone else came in and set up camp too, and an OOC fight started. Is it their Right to camp a spire? Yes. Should they do it? No, as they are now splitting the exp, and there are plenty of other places to go where they wouldn't have to.

[Menden]

Being a social game, playing alongside hundreds of other people, the best rule is "don't be a douche". Another rule is "play smart".

Like a few months ago in South Karana someone was killing the gnolls at the spires. Someone else came in and set up camp too, and an OOC fight started. Is it their Right to camp a spire? Yes. Should they do it? No, as they are now splitting the exp, and there are plenty of other places to go where they wouldn't have to.

<3

[Sadiki]

My idea of a camp is just doing something else if it's occupied at the time. I don't know why everything is a big argument on this server and why no one wants to get along ever. It's EQ...

Most people around here don't care what a camp is, it's whatever made-up rule they can throw at someone to try to make them leave. Logging on when a X hour spawn is about to come up, lying to anyone in the vicinity about having been there camping it, trying desperately to monopolize it using petition scare tactics... lest someone else actually kill a mob. Arguing about exp camps aside, good luck seeing a Tranix or a Drusella if 2 people out of the several thousand playing here wish to take every single one.

pls chill p99 players ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

[Teppler]

My idea of a camp is just doing something else if it's occupied at the time. I don't know why everything is a big argument on this server and why no one wants to get along ever. It's EQ...

Most people around here don't care what a camp is, it's whatever made-up rule they can throw at someone to try to make them leave. Logging on when a X hour spawn is about to come up, lying to anyone in the vicinity about having been there camping it, trying desperately to monopolize it using petition scare tactics... lest someone else actually kill a mob. Arguing about exp camps aside, good luck seeing a Tranix or a Drusella if 2 people out of the several thousand playing here wish to take every single one.

pls chill p99 players ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Lying is a dangerous game. If admins want to be thorough they will find out what you are lying about.

Even if you're a good guy Greg some situations are bound to come up. Lets say you log on and get a really valuable camp that you've wanted to do for a long time. Then someone or some group comes in later and rule lawyers you for it. You need to know the rules yourself, if anything, just so you don't get pushed around.

[Jimjam]

using petition scare tactics...

The number of times people claim to be petitioning, but it doesn't come to anything... c'mon guys, pull the trigger! All our wives, husbands and children would be eternally satisfied for even a 1 week ban.

[aaezil]

Ok, so your preference is that the CS staff define every single camp in every single zone in the game? The official policy is already posted in the wiki and a guide has already commented in this thread with about as much clarity as necessary for any rational adult.

If you want instanced dungeons or something, there are a number of games out there that offer that. This is CLASSIC EVERQUEST. It's an open world game. You have to talk to people and/or compromise sometimes. The "don't be a douche" guideline is really all that should be necessary most of the time.



No... Thats not what i would suggest at all.

What i would suggest is something that's at least consistent throghout the game. For example in some zones a camp is 1 spawn, in some zones its as many as 20+ (CE). For some "camps" you are only "required" (changes by gm mood) to kill the named and not the surrounding mobs while for other "camps" (like lucan) you are required to keep the surrounding mobs clear even though he is not a PH and the other mobs have nothing to so do with the quest at all. Its just a bunch of arbitrary rulings that you can never be sure on.

Since this information is not written anywhere easily accessible (hidden in 40 pages of gm rulings for all sorts of "special" mobs) nor is it consistent between zones/"camps" we have many more rules laywers and petitons that could all be avoided.

Would love to see some sort of solution

[kjs86z]

Crypt issues infuriate me. People get petty over dumb stuff, honestly guys, if someone/duo/group/whatever is at spot 17 and is keeping all the mobs down, leave them be.

[WarTurtle62]

The problem I have been running into a lot are the high level Monks and such who camp entire floors or even the whole zone of Paineel, but act annoyed when others come along. Most of these folks will camp The Palace, which contains 4-5 easier mobs and four harder guards. I understand these folks are on a mission to rack up cash, but it doesn’t seem right for a “camp” in this instance to involve nine mobs to be claimed by one person. If they were being rude about not sharing, wouldn’t I have the right to at least claim one or two? How do you define what is a camp in this instance? Would we both pick one and first to engage from there? Seems like it would be a bloody DPS race I’d never win anyway unless a GM was involved. FYI I usually move on instead of confronting but there are a few choice jerks out there.

[fastboy21]

I'm not in favor of "code law" when it comes to camps or other rules. The spirit of the rules is kept best when GMs have the authority to make a judgement based on the specific circumstances within the framework and through lens of the general server rules and past precendent.

However, when it comes to major camps that are high volume areas (Jboots, Hands/WL, frenzy, stormfeather, crypt etc.) the precedents should be so numerous at this point that sharing them with the community as known rulings would help honest people when legitimate (not asshat) disputes arise. Some of these camps already have very well articulated rules, but not all.

[Legidias]

Classic HHK gobs was 4 camps. You can split it into 4 camps on p99.

[Teppler]

Classic HHK gobs was 4 camps. You can split it into 4 camps on p99.

You can but you shouldn't and I don't think a GM will find sympathy for you if you try to lawyer it that way. We got a ruling on it just a few pages ago. GM's don't like it when you try to split that camp when it's already been being cleared.

They said theres a few camps like this. Crypt, KC Captain. Howling Stones wings(north and basement at least) are gonna be the same as is that goblin camp. It's the same spirit of the ruling.

[Teppler]

Classic HHK gobs was 4 camps. You can split it into 4 camps on p99.

You're more on top of that goblin camp than I am with crypt. :P

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2572361&postcount=112

[Teppler]

Crypt issues infuriate me. People get petty over dumb stuff, honestly guys, if someone/duo/group/whatever is at spot 17 and is keeping all the mobs down, leave them be. I mean, the area could be viewed like the HHK goblins as multiple camps, but in reality it's just a douche move. A Guide/GM could interpret it as a single camp or multiple so you are taking a risk contesting that area, every situation is different.

For dungeons, we tell folks agro range/LOS. This works for almost everything. The exceptions could be KC Captain or seb king/crypt. If there's people there, just go somewhere else. Don't be douche.


Some naughty people in crypt today need to read the rules.

[MagpieRockyl]

Nice triple post.

I hear they are taking action against spammers.

[Teppler]

Nice triple post.

I hear they are taking action against spammers.

You would know better about getting banned than me. Feel free to petition it if you think it's an offense.

[skarlorn]

You would know more*

[MagpieRockyl]

You would know better about getting banned than me. Feel free to petition it if you think it's an offense.

I concede please continue.

[Slave35]

You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.

Not sure what's vague about this.


It's vague because the wording just in these two sentences is self-contradictory. The first one states that you must give up all your camps but one. The second one states that you may choose one camp to give up.

If you are camping 4 spawns, if you go by the first sentence, you get to choose 1 of those spawns to camp when another party shows up. In the second sentence, you get to choose 3 of those spawns to camp.

[Teppler]

Crypt issues infuriate me. People get petty over dumb stuff, honestly guys, if someone/duo/group/whatever is at spot 17 and is keeping all the mobs down, leave them be. I mean, the area could be viewed like the HHK goblins as multiple camps, but in reality it's just a douche move. A Guide/GM could interpret it as a single camp or multiple so you are taking a risk contesting that area, every situation is different.

For dungeons, we tell folks agro range/LOS. This works for almost everything. The exceptions could be KC Captain or seb king/crypt. If there's people there, just go somewhere else. Don't be douche.



Bump

[Teppler]

bumped

[loramin]

It's vague because the wording just in these two sentences is self-contradictory. The first one states that you must give up all your camps but one. The second one states that you may choose one camp to give up.

If you are camping 4 spawns, if you go by the first sentence, you get to choose 1 of those spawns to camp when another party shows up. In the second sentence, you get to choose 3 of those spawns to camp.

You get to choose 1 to keep, not 1 to give up. The second person then gets to pick 1 of the remaining, and then any other mobs remaining are "FTE" (First to Engage, whoever agroes them first gets them).