The 1HS+Shield vs 2HS Shadowknight debate

[LulzSect©]

Dear elfs, I’m a pretty filthy SK casual and would like to know what’s the ideal weapons setup for my blue SK?

**lowbie group dungeon crawl playstyle Green Jade Halberd ATM

[Troxx]

If you don't have a ton of cash to invest, 1h and shield is always a good bet; especially as sks get some nice cheap(ish) high ratio 1 handers.

[rajax]

Or in other words your budget determines your “ideal” with how abundant gear is on p1999.

For soloing or group content most people would recommend just using your best DPS ratio weapon in your bags (typically a 2h after the level 20 damage cap increase) to keep fights as short as possible and therefor taking less damage overall then additional shield AC/stats would have mitigated. Also consider there are less enemy ripostes and less enemy Damage Shield hits being taken while using 2h weapons. If you need a shield to bash, like to interrupt vital spells such as gate then certainly swap one in when needed.

There are rarer end game tradeable Knight class 1h that have significantly better DPS ratios then your halberd but consider if spending tens of thousands of PP for improved damage on a class that uses spells to tank and hold threat is worth it over your 200-400pp halberd when you could spend the money improving your durability with better armor and Hp jewelry. Or spending it on getting convenience items like Jboots.

For comparison:

2h “budget?” upgrade

http://wiki.project1999.com/Exquisite_Velium_Battle_Axe

Vs

1h “budget” dps downgrade

http://wiki.project1999.com/Noctivagant_Blade

Vs the “ideal?”

https://wiki.project1999.com/Massive_Dragonclaw_Shard

[LulzSect©]

thank you for your informative posts

i will stick with my Green Jade Halberd as i have already spent all my plat (lol)

after achieving a satisfactory FashionQuest state my next priority item acquisition will be haste

[Danth]

2H weapons are typically better than 1-hand options of the same price, and that's without factoring in the additional cost of a shield. Long term, most Shadow Knights probably end up using both types as the situation dictates.

Danth

[elwing]

Use the gjh to level, remember to keep other cheap weapon to train all weapons as you level, having to close a 150 skill point gap suck... Once higher level, get a rotting sword of pain from velktor's lab...

[Snaggles]

My understanding (never parsed) is that a Jade Halberd or Deathbringer Rod is going to outdamage most all 1h's except for the $80k+ Massive Dragonclaw Shard. The MDS is going to do less damage than and Exquisite 2h or a Reaver which is 1/10th to 1/4th the price. If you are face-tanking with a quick 1h you are going to eat more ripostes and your own ripostes will be lower dmg.

After haste once you have the other cheap HP items I would get a Noc Blade or MOSS and a Clay Guardian Shield. You can eventually get a free Sword of Pain in the bear pets of Velks (19/24) or upgrade the MOSS to an Ebon Mace.

Having a 1h/board and 2h is always recommended simply to keep you from getting bored. Your only chores in a group are aggro and sometimes pulling; it's not like you are a rogue training 1hb in each hand and gimping the team.

[LulzSect©]

That’s awesome to hear. I feel more powerful already.

[beargryllz]

Ebon Mace is cheap and the ratio is only barely worse than the best tradeable 2h

You might as well take advantage of bash and the oddball stats you find on any cheap shield

You *can* swap out weapons to bash, but it's pretty irritating. I did this on my warrior and hitting lvl 55 was the best day of my life (warrior kicks auto stun at lvl 55)

Ripostes, either given or taken are such an infinitesimal amount of damage either way that I don't think they enter into discussion at all unless you're talking about Furious disc to generate initial aggro and allow your CH chain to get into the correct position. Shadowknights don't get Furious disc, so who cares? Me? I've used that tactic like twice in the last 15 months of raiding. When I was a small child, I thought riposte was the single coolest ability ever. It's sadly just irrelevant. It's cool, but irrelevant in the numbers department.

[elwing]

1h +board is better against casters, you generally get more resist like that and bash... For pretty much all else 2hs probably makes more sense... Less chance to get riposted, heavier riposte, better dps, obviously you can have more ac/hp with two items but I wonder where that really worth the loss.. Definitely not on casual dungeon groups...

[Danth]

Ripostes, either given or taken are such an infinitesimal amount of damage either way

Beyond leveling content, ignore riposte at your peril. It looks small on a log parser but it's the spikes that kill you. Damage spikes due to riposte damage become very significant when tanking difficult opponents, particularly since the knightly classes lack any discipline-based damage reduction. Eating a couple of 400 or 500 damage ripostes in quick succession can quickly make the difference between a complete heal landing versus eating dirt. If I'm a tank for something that I'm worried might kill me, I won't even turn on attack and hold hate solely with spells.

-----------------------------------------------

For the most part there isn't a lot of difference between 1H and 2H. You see Shadow Knights (and Paladins) using either because, ultimately, either will get the job done. Don't over-think it.

Danth

[LulzSect©]

as the situation dictates.

please explain this statement to me like i am level 5

[Snaggles]

If you are face tanking casting taps between Ebon Mace swings will ruin your dps. A slow as F 2hander, not so much. Even aggro spells, while fast casting, aren't as quick as a 24 delay hasted 1h.

Less an issue for group work than solo or duo.

[LulzSect©]

So if I’m casting a spell it skips the attack until the next swing, is that right?

[B4EQWASCOOL]

So if I’m casting a spell it skips the attack until the next swing, is that right?

No.

[Snaggles]

As I understand it just suspends the swing timer. You don't miss one but rather you will swing as soon as the spell lands.

You still want to try and cast between swings but it's not as bad as missing an entire round. With a 1h that's way harder than a 40 delay thumper. Part of the reason why an Oggok Cleaver has an iffy ratio but it's still pretty great for a SK if you're casting slow taps.

[elwing]

Yrep, snaggles, that's exactly that, when your swing timer is out, if casting it is suspended and will resume as soon as the casting is done, resulting in instant hit, you will not miss swing, but it delay them resulting in lower dps... At this time, my 2hander is better than my one hander, so it's a no brainer when you take in account raw dps, the ripost issues, the time lost casting... It's 2hs all the way, except when I really need those extra resist on some boss aes...

[LulzSect©]

On launch, I played my SK to 30 on red without knowing this information.

Thank you 2 the last 2 postsers 😃🙏🏽

**still murdered alot ppl tho

[24kanthony]

I try to start cast right after a melee round. This keeps that lost time to a minimum.

[aaezil]

Lol at people discussing sk dps...

Hint: you have none

[Danth]

Take the trolling to RnF; this isn't the place for it. Can't kill a monster by looking at it so Shadow Knight damage output--while modest--is nonetheless quite relevant in solo or duo situations.

Danth

[aaezil]

Pointing out that which is demonstrably true can hardly be called trolling my friend.

May want to check yourself (Before you wrecketh thyself)

[Snaggles]

Lol at people discussing sk dps...

Hint: you have none

It's all relative. Inconsequential on a raid, not a big deal in a group.

When solo or duo? Yea...it's something to think about. The slower you kill, the more you tap, the more you med.

[24kanthony]

...and upon deliberation, it was affirmed that numbers are relevant in a math based game.
Thanks for trying aazel

[LulzSect©]

Me Bash Gud noW!

[LulzSect©]

22% haste acquired

What's next SK priority? (LvL 27)

AC | HP | STR ? plS adVise

[elwing]

I'd say hp/sta->ac->str->dex. Resist are also of high importance but at 27 I think you better level...

[LulzSect©]

tyty

ok so what does DEX | AGI officially do for me?

[elwing]

AGI in theory help with defense, in practical it is bugged and has little effect, beware through you want to be higher than 75 (I think,might be 60 or 70) otherwise you get a bad ac penality... DEX helps with weapon proc, so it's use depends on your weapon...

[LulzSect©]

preciate the answers thx

[Snaggles]

Agil = Slightly effects AC. Sub 75 is a penalty, not a problem for you as a DE.
Dex = Procs. Not sure if self-procs use it as a factor.
AC = mitigation from melee attacks
HP's = obvious
Stam = similar to hps
Str = attack

It kinda depends on what you want to do. If you are a classic grind group tank with a cleric then hps > all. If you are duoing melee mobs and not taking CH then AC is very handy. For reverse kiting AC is also nice in that those fear breaks will be less painful.
Str will speed up your kills a bit but not nearly as much as haste or a good weapon.

I'd stack AC and HPs whenever possible. Have enough str so you aren't always encumbered (hero bracer is a solid cheap add). If fashionquesting some Dark Forge and the cheap Blood Ember slots, hp rings, etc.

And if it's not already obvious for 200p a nerfed circlet of shadows is awesome. It works 25 levels before the BE Bracer and is a faster cast.

[elwing]

Circlet of shadows also work 5 lvl earlier than your spell... Meaning you can already use it at 27 even through you do not get gather shadow before 30

[Snaggles]

Circlet of shadows also work 5 lvl earlier than your spell... Meaning you can already use it at 27 even through you do not get gather shadow before 30

It actually works lvl 20 :). Even better!

[LulzSect©]

sweet, all i have to do is save 250,000 pp for a prenerf CoS

/s

https://i.imgur.com/HlR5tUY.jpg

[elwing]

sweet, all i have to do is save 250,000 pp for a prenerf CoS

/s

https://i.imgur.com/HlR5tUY.jpg

Prenerf cos is great and a gamechanger, but the nerfed one is cheap and is a great clicky to get

[bigjeff100]

I’ve been debating on what race to make for an SK. Troll or DE are my two options. Regen is great but I hate being fat.

Awww think outside the box! Roll Erudite!

[elwing]

Awww think outside the box! Roll Erudite!

Or better, join the Bloodsabers! We even got a blood swimming pool!

[24kanthony]

As far as Dex goes, I have parsed all kinds of weapons on my SK and I can tell you that DEX will also affect how often you land your melee hits. At 60, I'd say that max DEX gives me about 20 more DPS depending on weapon.

[Quizlop]

As far as Dex goes, I have parsed all kinds of weapons on my SK and I can tell you that DEX will also affect how often you land your melee hits. At 60, I'd say that max DEX gives me about 20 more DPS depending on weapon.

Extremely skeptical about this. I have not seen anyone purport that DEX affects melee accuracy outside of PvP, and if it is true then there will need to be a serious reevaluation of stat priorities for people looking to maximize DPS.

[24kanthony]

The easiest way for me to test was with my Great Spear of Dawn. The high delay and lower skill cap makes it easy to see how much the extra dex is affecting me. In that situation, it's obvious enough I can see it in the white damage without a parser.

[24kanthony]

Also, for anyone who doesn't already know:
You won't generate any more aggro from a hit than a miss. You gain aggro based on the max dmg you could do on a swing X the number of swings you've taken at the mob. I've had rounds where I missed both hits in the round with the great spear and I still pulled aggro off the person tanking because of my possibility to do 292dmg on each of the two hits I just missed.

[LulzSect©]

i didn’t know about the swing miss but I’ve seen It happen and thought hmmm weird about it

Thx!

[24kanthony]

So when people say haste doesn't matter for an SK, they aren't thinking about the extra white dmg aggro they can generate with the extra swings. This will help save some mana when actively fighting after you need to aggro wash a lot of mobs but can't use DC because of mez breaks. Haste also helps out a lot when fear kiting.

[24kanthony]

I've parsed regular and then with only dex buffs. Gamparse says I miss less. Not sure what else to make of it.

[Jimjam]

I've parsed regular and then with only dex buffs. Gamparse says I miss less. Not sure what else to make of it.

It's plausible there is a non classic mechanic here, it is only an emulator after all.

I suppose you may have switched between weapons with different skills, gained some skill ups, or fought mobs with different avoidance values to produce this effect.

I actually have a suspicion that attack buffs here improve your accuracy (even though they obviously shouldn't). Never tested it cos I reckon I am just crazy.

[elwing]

So when people say haste doesn't matter for an SK, they aren't thinking about the extra white dmg aggro they can generate with the extra swings. This will help save some mana when actively fighting after you need to aggro wash a lot of mobs but can't use DC because of mez breaks. Haste also helps out a lot when fear kiting.
Haste matter, but I will happily take the 34% item over the 36%one if the stats are better...

[24kanthony]

My miss rate is still higher with max STR and lower dex than it is with max STR and DEX.
I could be off but it seems to me that on my SK DEX does the same thing for white dmg that it does for crits. Maybe the higher dex raises atk also and i didn't notice?

[Ennewi]

I remember a post where Haynar basically laughed off the idea of dex being anything more than negligible. Shields are useful when pulling and tanking casters. 2hers are good for anyone new to fear-kiting. Do whatever you prefer though because this game will consume so much of your real life, might as well do what you enjoy the most.

[LulzSect©]

How is a shield better for tanking casters? Am I missin something g ? I can already slam

[Jimjam]

I guess it is a mix of extra slot for hp/resist stack and faster 1 hander for push?

[LulzSect©]

ah, does faster attacking interrupt casting or just bash/slam?

[Quizlop]

Every time you successfully hit an enemy they get physically pushed a little bit, so it's possible to interrupt casting by having a bunch of people beating on the mob while facing the same direction. The amount you push the enemy with each attack is the same regardless of what weapon you use, so a faster weapon will let you push a mob further in a shorter period of time and increase the chance that they will fail their chanelling checks.

[LulzSect©]

I just acquired an Oggok Cleaver!

https://wiki.project1999.com/Oggok_Cleaver

**thoughts vs Green Jade Halberd? (WE 22% haSTe NOW)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Green_Jade_Halberd

[Haghar]

How is a shield better for tanking casters? Am I missin something g ? I can already slam

Large races can slam, not all races.

[Snaggles]

If you can slam then I'd keep using that 2h on casters.

I'm not sure it's possible to interrupt a caster with melee attacks (non slam/bash ones). Not saying it's impossible...just frankly don't know. In my experience though, if people aren't actively trying to interrupt NPC casters they never fail to get those spells off.


I just acquired an Oggok Cleaver!

https://wiki.project1999.com/Oggok_Cleaver

**thoughts vs Green Jade Halberd? (WE 22% haSTe NOW)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Green_Jade_Halberd

I'd keep both on you.

In theory the OC is a better weapon if you are over level 30: Bigger ripostes, less ripostes from the NPC, easy casting between swings even for slow taps (especially with spell haste). For self-hasted reverse kiting though the delay might drive you crazy. I remember having an OC on my lvl 30 sk with a 30/36 2hs and while soloing I exclusively used the faster one as the dps was more consistent.

[LulzSect©]

thx~!

[24kanthony]

Every missed round with that cleaver will kill you a little inside.
You will always have situations where you need the most ac and hp you can get so a shield is always good to have

[LulzSect©]

noted~! thx

[MagpieRockyl]

thx 4 the memoris

[LulzSect©]

After dinging 30, Oggok Cleaver (22%’d) is p neat after damage cap lifted! When double attacks land it’s like a nuke!

[elwing]

50 sta, no hp, no ac - 10vs all... You'd be way better served with an ice cream cone of doom for tanking, no ? 50sta is impressive but the rest is quite bad. And even if the 11/18 is not important, but the 25/25 is more like it through... But 3dkp is a nice investment until you can find gozzrem...

[LulzSect©]

neckbeards :p

[24kanthony]

If you just hang out in ToV during dragon kills long enough, you'll end up getting those because rot.
Got my lance off thunder by being in HoT and not anon but it's been in my bag ever since I got Great Spear of Dawn :- /

[Phenyo]

Just looted https://wiki.project1999.com/Katana_of_Pain for 3 DKP on my SK, Good for tanking. I prefer my https://wiki.project1999.com/Lance_of_Thunder and https://wiki.project1999.com/Black_Rock_Maul_of_Crushing for DPS though. The Mace is 23/23 ratio on P99 also - wiki shows it 20/23

#LulsIsPoor

seething

[LulzSect©]

i went back to GJH and swap in the OC for thorns/tormented mobs

[proxytoon]

Depends on the situation,level and mobs you are fighting imo