Cleric or Shaman?

[VincentVolaju]

Hey all, so I started playing here with a friend of mine. He made a warrior and I made a Cleric, we figured since this is player run server there prob wouldnt be a very big server population so we might as well pick the 2 things needed to make any group work... a tank and healer.

Were still low level atm and I have been reading alot about Shaman being the best duo w/ melee characters.

So I was wandering ... what are the main difference between Cleric and Shaman? How are the shamans heals compared to a Clerics? Which is needed more / more of a "must have" in a group, Cleric or Shaman? Are there more Clerics or Shamans on the server?

I figured I should ask here on the forums and get as many opinions as I could before I make up my mind on if I should or shouldnt reroll shaman.

THANKS ALL!!!

[Otis]

Well as far as I know, here's how the healing classes rank in regards to healing power:
1). Cleric
2). Druid
3). Shaman

However, Shamans get abilities that melee classes like such as: Slow, Buffs, SoW, etc. Plus, Shamans can off-tank in a pinch at lower levels.

[Taminy]

For duoing, warrior/shaman is much better than warrior/cleric.

As for which would be more desirable in a full group, it's about even. Maybe a slight nod to the cleric.

[President]

I found that a lot of the time when making groups at lower levels, I could survive a group with 1 cleric, but 1 druid or 1 shaman was rough. I would generally get 2 druids, 1 druid/1 shaman, 2 shamans or something like that if I couldn't find a cleric. It definitely becomes a lot more noticeable once clerics get complete heal. Your XP group will be hands down better if you only need to rely on 1 healer instead of 2. Resurrect will also be invaluable at later levels.

The shaman may be considered more of a fun class, and a more soloable class (buff, heal, debuff, slow, dps, sow, etc.) whereas a cleric you are basically going to buff/heal and that's about it.

Either way I don't think the combo of a warrior/shaman or warrior/cleric is really going to be that good at duoing. If you are wanting a warrior, then plan to group (or at least add dps and be a trio+) and I would suggest sticking with the cleric.

EDIT* war/shm war/clr won't be good at duoing unless you can afford fbss yakx2

[VincentVolaju]

Well we pretty much only really play the characters when were both online, so I will always be grouped with the warrior because we want to stay same level.

It sounds like in a group a Cleric is better because the heals are much stronger. What we wanted to do was pick the 2 most important class's, so we can make groups faster/easier, because its always much easier to fill in DPS and CC once you the tank/healer.

I guess if I went Shaman, I would be more of a buffer/debuffer with off heals, so we would still need to find a healer for the group anyway, right?

So far I am leaning on just sticking with the Cleric just because we can make just about any group work with a warrior / cleric combo ... I guess it isnt the same way for a Shaman though?

Does anyone know which class is more popular on the server?

[Otis]

As an aside, make sure your Warrior gets some good weapons. Taunt is screwy on this server, so weapon procs are very important.

[President]

Well we pretty much only really play the characters when were both online, so I will always be grouped with the warrior because we want to stay same level.

It sounds like in a group a Cleric is better because the heals are much stronger. What we wanted to do was pick the 2 most important class's, so we can make groups faster/easier, because its always much easier to fill in DPS and CC once you the tank/healer.

I guess if I went Shaman, I would be more of a buffer/debuffer with off heals, so we would still need to find a healer for the group anyway, right?

So far I am leaning on just sticking with the Cleric just because we can make just about any group work with a warrior / cleric combo ... I guess it isnt the same way for a Shaman though?

Does anyone know which class is more popular on the server?

There does seem to be a lack in shamans at higher levels, but if you are wanting to have the core classes to start groups, cleric/warrior is going to be it. And, you are never going to get turned down from a guild because you are a cleric....

[VincentVolaju]

Ive never really played EQ much, or raided for that matter. Are Clerics more useful in raids or groups? Or is there not much difference between the 2?

[President]

They are going to be useful in both. Shamans big raid usefulness is debuff/slow, but that can be done in most raids by a couple shamans if not 1. Larger & complete heals will always be useful in groups or raids. Later on once we start hitting Kunark and Velious, we will more than likely start seeing the 4-5 cleric CH rotation come back to life.

[Taminy]

EDIT* war/shm war/clr won't be good at duoing unless you can afford fbss yakx2

FBSS + yakx2 isn't needed for duoing.

FBSS + decent weapon(s) even fairly cheap ones would work fine for duoing, or a mith2h. Still expensive though of course.

[Recyclebin]

Cleric please, we need more than 1-2 for a server of 400-500 that are non-/anon tagged that actually can give you the time of the day for a rez for 250pp

[President]

FBSS + yakx2 isn't needed for duoing.

FBSS + decent weapon(s) even fairly cheap ones would work fine for duoing, or a mith2h. Still expensive though of course.

Thanks for clarifying my point....

[vageta31]

No one can heal as good as a cleric. Period. If you're talking end game usefullness in old school EQ then cleric wins hands down. However if you're talking duo ability then Cleric's aren't the best choice. They can lull which makes it easier to break some camps but have zero utility really.

If you want the best partner to a melee class strictly in a duo sense then you can't go wrong with Shaman. Shaman's can slow the mob up to 70% which reduces the need for a complete heal altogether. Shaman's excel at increasing the output of their melee partner by being able to debuff a mob, haste the melee, buff strength for more damage, dex buff for more proc's and have decent HP/AC buffs as to top it off. Not to mention they have utility like sow, shrink, regen, resist buffs for all 5 resists, etc...

With a Cleric/Warrior it comes down to... Warrior engages mob. When down to low health Cleric casts CH. If you get adds root for crowd control and hope it doesn't break before your next CH is off.

With Shaman/Warrior it goes like this... Warrior engages mob, Shaman sends in hasted pet. After aggro is established(if warrior has proc weapon then he will be hasted and dex buffed by shaman) Shaman casts slow. Heal as necessary and if mob needs to die quickly then Shaman can cast a DoT as well. If you get adds Shaman can off tank pretty well, at least long enough to root park, slow and heal if need be. My shaman got to 50 by tanking specs right up in their face, no kiting or root parking necessary.

Basically a Shaman/Melee will burn through mobs much easier and safer due to the utility and extra DPS from pet. Cleric/Melee is a great combo, just not as efficient. Assuming the mob can be slowed then most encounters become trivial as long as the shaman doesn't run out of mana. Once you get into planes and boss mobs then even with slow the Shaman won't be able to keep up with heals, but based on your post I doubt this is something you're worried about.

At lower levels you can aggro kite with the Shaman and let the melee run behind and get free DPS without even getting hit. Slow, malise, dots, etc.. cause massive aggro so if his pet and the melee don't taunt it isn't hard to keep the mob's attention. If outside you can easily run around after pissing off the mob and let dog and melee get free damage. Very mana efficient way to kill mobs much higher than you if you're willing to put out the effort.

Then there's Kunark... Shaman's really become strong in Kunark and even better in Velious.. Shaman/Monk is unreal. Clerics are always needed and rezzes are like gold. But if you want to duo with your buddy most of the game then you can't go wrong with a Shaman. Oh and go Ogre or go home. No frontal stun > all. Period.

[Uaellaen]

zero utility? hmm .. root, stun, memwipe, undead DDs, hp / ac buffs, lull ...

[VincentVolaju]

Hmm, Shaman and Warrior sound pretty amazing lol. Im wondering though, whats the xp diff between grouping with a full group of people in an instances or somethin, compared to duoing with another player? Ive always assumed that being in a full group in an instance grinding would be the fastest way to level, thats why I figured Cleric. Cause I was assumeing I will always be wanted in groups, and I could easily start my own group with my warrior friend.

But if leveling duo is just as fast / or faster, then Shaman starts to sound a little more appealing.



edit: Also, you say Ogre Shaman is the best but... I heard the boats and stuff like that are bugged on this server or something? Where traveling as an evil race is near impossible because guards everywhere kill you? Like I said Ive never really played EQ so I dont know from experience, thats just what Ive heard.

[Myth]

Go with a barbarian shaman

[Viscerate]

The thing that Clerics get that Druids & Shamans don't is complete heal, but until that point Clerics get their heals one spell level earlier. For example, from 9-13 a Shaman will heal just as well as a cleric.

Shaman would probably be the best combo with slow, canni, pet(at 34), compared to druids who have damage shield and teleporting.

[quido]

Go with a barbarian shaman

Barbarian Shamans are the best race/class evar!!

[Taminy]

Hmm, Shaman and Warrior sound pretty amazing lol. Im wondering though, whats the xp diff between grouping with a full group of people in an instances or somethin, compared to duoing with another player? Ive always assumed that being in a full group in an instance grinding would be the fastest way to level, thats why I figured Cleric. Cause I was assumeing I will always be wanted in groups, and I could easily start my own group with my warrior friend.

But if leveling duo is just as fast / or faster, then Shaman starts to sound a little more appealing.


First there are no instances. There are dungeons, but they aren't instanced.

How fast a shaman/warrior duo levels compared to a few group has a few factors:

In particular, it will make a huge difference in the duo (not quite as much in a full group) if both characters are well geared. Especially the warrior.

Also it will depend on where you hunt. Sometimes a full group will be able to hunt in a particular dungeon that has a huge ZEM (zone experience modifier) that the duo may not be able to hunt in - or may have to wait a few extra levels before they can hunt there.

On the other hand, the downside to grouping is that you need to actually find people to group (and wait for them to meet you, etc) and that they aren't going to get you killed. Usually what you can do if you want to group is start duoing, and then just "LFG" until you find people to group with. Or go back to duoing if the group breaks apart.

[Danth]

"The thing that Clerics get that Druids & Shamans don't is complete heal"

Superior Heal too, actually; Druids and Shamans don't get Superior heal until 50+.

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"Cleric please, we need more than 1-2 for a server of 400-500 that are non-/anon tagged that actually can give you the time of the day for a rez for 250pp"

My wife read that and laughed to herself. There might be a larger number of 'non anon' Clerics on the server if a massive proportion of the server wasn't constantly begging the Clerics not only for rezzes, but to do all the footwork and even look for their bodies because apparently people are lazy and have over-inflated senses of entitlement.

In short, this is EQ and you shouldn't *expect* a rez, certainly not until you're 40+. If you get one, great! If not, suck up the exp loss and keep on truckin'.

-----------------------------------------------

As for the choice between Cleric and Shaman: I see sufficient numbers of both classes online (Clerics aren't nearly so rare here as they were on Live). Shamans are arguably superior if you intend to primarily solo or duo. Both classes shine in a group setting. Clerics in particular often form the backbone of their groups. Clerics posses much more raw healing power, and get their heals sooner, while Shamans offer greater combat utility. They play differently enough that my advice is to pick the one you like better.

Danth

[vageta31]

zero utility? hmm .. root, stun, memwipe, undead DDs, hp / ac buffs, lull ...

Did I stutter? Yes I said practically zero utility. HP/AC buffs? I already covered that and it's obvious. Root? Most caster classes get that besides mage so it's not special. Undead DD, great but Shaman's get regular DD as well so unless you're in Unrest or Lower Guk it won't help. I already mentioned lull as being a good thing, and memwipe is nice but how often will you really use it?

I knew this would draw fire from clerics but why? My entire response was based on the OP asking for "DUO" in which Shamans have the advantage. The utilities a cleric has are in no comparison to a Shaman, especially when you consider Shamans can make potions and get IVU, damage shields, resists that stack with normal resist line, etc... Did you know the cold resist potion adds another 25sta that stacks with our big stamina spell? I didn't think you did.

And yes Ogre shaman. Barb shaman is the weakest choice unless you just want to be able to be in the good cities. They get the lowest str/sta of the 3 but only 5 more wisdom than an Ogre. And in the world of Shamen HPs > pure wisdom for canni so higher hps is not just a luxury, it's a necessity. My Ogre when self buffed can reach the 255 str cap and can hit for 66 with a 20dmg weapon. He also can self buff to 202 sta without even adding any sta items and not using that potion buff as I mentioned. My Ogre shaman has about 1500hps self buffed at lvl 50 and I don't even focus on HP items at the moment. Who cares about the boat. Just invis yourself and it's a non-issue anyways. Don't choose a race based on where you think you can go safely because once you're 40+ it doesn't matter anyways... Trolls are great too, but they have lowest wis and only mediocre sta/str. They get regen which is awesome, but with self regen spells it only adds so much to what shaman can already get and once Kunark comes out the fungi tunic closes the gap even more. No frontal stun cannot be beaten by anything. Think of all the times you've been bashed during a cast and had to start over. Well with Ogre's that just doesn't happen. You can easily cast through almost anything and no other racial ability comes close to just how badass that is from level 1 to 60.

Clerics are awesome, but for a duo there are better choices. Even if a cleric had some more utility he has to save all of his mana for CH anyways. He won't have left over to be having fun doing DD, stuns and anything else he may be able to cast. Shamans have massive self regen and can add actual DPS to a fight(put a FBSS on him, add Alacrity and watch him go). They can handle taking a beating long enough to root even high level mobs, then step back and let their regen do the healing instead of having to waste mana on heals. Get a Totem of Widdershins and you'll get free Malisement that procs all the time(I know I have one) and smacking mobs for 66 dmg while hasted.

Also consider a Shaman can solo a shit ton better than clerics so when your warrior buddy isn't online you can do many, many things solo.

[Toboggan]

As I remember, there were particular choices that were pretty standard for duos.

Cleric + Warrior
Shaman + Monk

Not to say that these are the only choices for duos, but perhaps optimum choices. What is a warrior but hit points and armor class? What is a monk but a DPS machine?

As a druid, I've partnered with most if not all classes. Some classes work very well in conjunction with mine, others not so much. And as important as the classes, if not more so, is the play style of the people at the keyboard. I've grouped with people and had amazing success, only to try again with another player and be subject to abject failure.

[Taminy]

As I remember, there were particular choices that were pretty standard for duos.

Cleric + Warrior
Shaman + Monk

Not to say that these are the only choices for duos, but perhaps optimum choices. What is a warrior but hit points and armor class? What is a monk but a DPS machine?


A well geared warrior is definitely not just AC and HP. They won't be outdamaging rogues or monks, but with the right weapons their DPS can be pretty decent actually.

They are kind of weak in classic, but kunark (and velious) they get much better weapons that aren't raid loot, clicky toys, almost the same weapon skill caps as monks, and if you're smart a warrior/shaman duo will fight weak mobs for exp grinding and keep the warrior constantly berserk for crippling blows. Although it was at level 60, warriors were also the only ones who got triple attack during kunark. Monks didn't get triple attack until it was patched in much later (Luclin?).

I've found there are two types of people who play warriors: those who think the only thing the class can do is tank, and those who tank and also make the best out of their melee abilities with proper gearing. Monks will always do more, but it's closer than most people think - and of course the warrior takes hits better than the monk as well (more efficient on mana). I think what absolutely makes monk + shaman the clear winner over warrior + shaman isn't the DPS difference, it's FD pulling...