War agro weapon question

[pijan]

Currently have a frostbringer and winter fury. Do you think this will be enough agro once I can proc FB or should I invest in a second proc like WESS or something? On a side not how hard is it to get Infestation? Is it really just the poison proc that's so good for it? If so is scorpikis claw a suitable replacement for lower levels?

[bigjeff100]

WESS is wonderful agro, top notch agro. BUT it can be a bit risky. A risk many don't care to deal with. Problem with your winter fury is no proc. A good cheap option would be a Sarnak Warhammer. I always liked mine, still bust it out when i'm tankin casters. Blood point would be a better poison proc option, but will run ya close to 2k. Silken whip of ensnaring will get ya agro too but just like the WESS not sure the root aspect is something u want to deal with...

[beargryllz]

WESS is fantastic aggro weapon and I think FB/WESS is one of the best possible combos a warrior can outright purchase for a small fee in EC tunnel

Infestation is superior to either, and it isn't very hard to get at all. Plenty of them rot and Vilefang is only a 24h spawn requiring 1 solid group to kill.

Infestation + Frostbringer is probably the best possible tanking combination until you get epics

[Jimjam]

Isn't silken whip snare, not root?

Infestation has a couple of small drawbacks (which somewhat overlap with those of WESS); piercing has a lower skill cap so does less dps against mobs close to your level. Also, it has a small dot component which can make target switches more tricky if your group is using mez as its primary form of crowd control.

[bigjeff100]

Isn't silken whip snare, not root?

Infestation has a couple of small drawbacks (which somewhat overlap with those of WESS); piercing has a lower skill cap so does less dps against mobs close to your level. Also, it has a small dot component which can make target switches more tricky if your group is using mez as its primary form of crowd control.

haha yup ur right, i spaced...

[Troxx]

Infestation is superior to either, and it isn't very hard to get at all. Plenty of them rot and Vilefang is only a 24h spawn requiring 1 solid group to kill.

Depends how you look at it. I agree infestation is the better overall weapon as it has much better melee threat and dps which makes it more consistent when you don't get a proc. Additionally, it doesn't have the whole blind issue which can rarely cause problems. Overall, yep I'd say it's better and will likely always be in my primary slot. If you only cared about raw aggro over time though, WESS will run circles around infestation. The extra poison counter, blind, and debuff on the proc are that potent. In every day routine use where you don't always get an early proc, however, infestation will be more consistently good.

WESS also comes with very nice AC plus resists. Even though it has a paltry 11/23 ratio, it makes an excellent offhander.

Having said that, I generally use infestation + FB unless the group needs snare ... in which case I'll use infestation and the 14/28 silken whip of ensnaring.

+ Frostbringer is probably the best possible tanking combination until you get epics

Infestation generates a lot more aggro than red epic. 900 threat per proc vs ~500 more than makes up for red epic's ratio. Blue epic is great for dps but has no proc. Velious tradeable weapons made epics obsolete/optional. For tanking threat, FB + WESS (or WESS + FB) will generate a lot more aggro than dual epics. Toss infestation (not tradeable) into the equation and epics are a functional trophy at best. Blue will always have a niche for the attack boost.

[Sonderbeast]

Sarnak battlehammer + frostbringer is good dps and good aggro

[Jauna]

Get a Wurmslayer mainhand and use that frostbringer in the offhand.

procs are neat on raids and people romanticize the idea of procs because that is what they use to tell people to attack but leveling up shit dies much too fast at all levels to worry about procs to hold agro.

Try a Wurmslayer out for awhile, worst case scenario this post cost you 2k

[pijan]

Get a Wurmslayer mainhand and use that frostbringer in the offhand.

procs are neat on raids and people romanticize the idea of procs because that is what they use to tell people to attack but leveling up shit dies much too fast at all levels to worry about procs to hold agro.

Try a Wurmslayer out for awhile, worst case scenario this post cost you 2k

Wurm gets worse as your increase in level right? Since your main hand bonus goes up weapon speed becomes more and more of a factor?

[Qtip]

Wurm gets worse as your increase in level right? Since your main hand bonus goes up weapon speed becomes more and more of a factor?

On my warrior, who is only lvl 40 still. A wurmy puts out some crazy dps with Rbg and the clicky from watchmen arms. 50+ I will probably replace, but as of right now. I dont know anything that compares for the 1.5k I spent on it.

[beargryllz]

Depends how you look at it. I agree infestation is the better overall weapon as it has much better melee threat and dps which makes it more consistent when you don't get a proc. Additionally, it doesn't have the whole blind issue which can rarely cause problems. Overall, yep I'd say it's better and will likely always be in my primary slot. If you only cared about raw aggro over time though, WESS will run circles around infestation. The extra poison counter, blind, and debuff on the proc are that potent. In every day routine use where you don't always get an early proc, however, infestation will be more consistently good.

WESS also comes with very nice AC plus resists. Even though it has a paltry 11/23 ratio, it makes an excellent offhander.

Having said that, I generally use infestation + FB unless the group needs snare ... in which case I'll use infestation and the 14/28 silken whip of ensnaring.



Infestation generates a lot more aggro than red epic. 900 threat per proc vs ~500 more than makes up for red epic's ratio. Blue epic is great for dps but has no proc. Velious tradeable weapons made epics obsolete/optional. For tanking threat, FB + WESS (or WESS + FB) will generate a lot more aggro than dual epics. Toss infestation (not tradeable) into the equation and epics are a functional trophy at best. Blue will always have a niche for the attack boost.

You'll understand this after you've been tanking for a while, but the added aggro on WESS is honestly irrelevant in that it's excessive. It's also unreliable. It's also not an issue because the other people generating aggro either have evade, FD, or are swinging a 2H for damage. On fights that matter, you're going to dump a net or some mallet charges into the boss. On fights that don't matter, nobody cares if a rogue fails to play properly and ends up eating a few too many melee hits and needs to get rezzed

Red might proc for slightly less +hate than Infestation or WESS, but it's still a superior tanking weapon because it has 50 HP and the alternatives have 0 HP. Once you've tanked for a while, you'll see what I mean.

Swinging FB + infestation might generate more aggro, but nobody cares about a dead tank that had lots of aggro. You want a living tank that still has a crazy amount of aggro generated.

[ScruffMacBuff]

Yeah WESS is a ton of aggro but honestly unnecessary for group exp. You don't need to generate butt loads of aggro every fight, you just need to out pace the next guy and there's only one or two items better at that than Infestation, but none so easy to get as Infestation.

I've said this in other threads, but I'll primarily keep Infestation in my mainhand for aggro and offhand will depend on who I'm grouped with. If I'm having trouble keeping aggro I'll use Frostbringer. If it's easy enough I'll use Dagas. If I need MR it's Jagged Blade of Mourning. If I wanna have some fun I'll use Club if the Ice Ocean as well. For raiding I recently tried out WESS in primary and Dagas in off hand for Vindi. If it's something you're gonna dump a midnight mallet on then you're probably gonna get Torpored as well as using defensive discipline at which point your dps doesn't matter. But with those weapons I had an extra 32 AC, 100HP, and 5 MR, which was great because I'd never lose aggro with 5 mallet charges + a few procs of the whip.

I think I got off topic a bit.

[Troxx]

Red might proc for slightly less +hate than Infestation or WESS, but it's still a superior tanking weapon because it has 50 HP and the alternatives have 0 HP. Once you've tanked for a while, you'll see what I mean.

Half the aggro per proc is not *slightly less*. Red's proc is around 500 threat. Infestation is ~900 threat. WESS? That one is simply nuts. 4 poison counters (1200 hate) + debuff + blind which bring it close to or just above 2000 threat - close to 4x stronger that red proc. The ratio is disappointing but it does have 12ac and 5sv magic. I agree with you that the hate on WESS is overkill - hence why I don't use it most of the time now that I have infestation, but don't downplay the difference in proc strength.

Red is a fine weapon. It'd be absolutely stellar if you could use it offhand. It's got a great ratio, 5 sv all, 50hp, and 15 stamina. I'd use it if I had it, but my point still stands: Velious tradeable weapons made epics completely optional in a functional sense and obsolete from a pure threat standpoint. They're worth having, but unlike in kunark you can not only function without them - you can outperform them. Prior to velious tanks were stuck with sarnak warhammer + silken whip of ensnaring (or troch's skean if you scored one for offhand) until you had epics or the VP blade.

Swinging FB + infestation might generate more aggro, but nobody cares about a dead tank that had lots of aggro. You want a living tank that still has a crazy amount of aggro generated.

If 50hp makes the difference between a living tank and a dead tank, you've got cleric problems, not warrior gear problems.

Once you've tanked for a while, you'll see what I mean.

I've got a decade of raid leading/tanking with a warrior under my belt, thanks.

Edit: I do need to state that it wasn't until my time here on p99 that I observed the practice of dumping clickies into a raid target on engage being commonplace. During the classic timeline the approach was to give the warrior ample time to establish aggro prior to raid dps engage ... and on tough targets to suicide a ranger to weaponshield to help the tank establish a lead on aggro. Mallet/strings/net dumping makes warrior weapon choices less important unfortunately. Procs mattered then - a lot. This is also the reason why Aten Ha Ra's gloves were so coveted from luclin onward. PoP introduced that range item that gave you a spell buff imbued stun proc also - now 2 invaluable items that gave warriors 2 extra procs per minute.

[Jauna]

Wurm gets worse as your increase in level right? Since your main hand bonus goes up weapon speed becomes more and more of a factor?

I do not know, my war is still using a wurmslayer at 51 because of its reliability on agro. Now that I think about it I am not 100% sure if the MH bonus effects agro.

[Troxx]

Wurmslayer is competitive for dps up until the low 50s. From then on a faster weapon with a ratio of 0.5 or greater will generally win out, especially something like a jade mace that's fast.

[Goodest]

Tserrina Whip (https://wiki.project1999.com/Tserrina%27s_Whip) (procs at level 35) + Infestation (https://wiki.project1999.com/Infestation)

unless a war has ToV drops like deep sea's or a few VP drops even with epics is hard for them to out aggro me with these things on. White dmg not so good but with seahorse belt + eye patch im getting after them really good self buffed i'm always pulling mobs off SK's and pally with these things that snare + counter, mobs hate is very high.

SO
WESS proc at level 1
Infestation proc at level 1
Venom Axe of the brood procs at level 1
Frosty at level 40
everything else of use not till 50...(you cant even zone in till level 46)

any combo of the above works very well through the level's

[demokatt]

What about using a frostbringer + Club of the ice ocean from 51 when club procs?

[Troxx]

Club of the ice ocean has an alright ratio but the proc is only ~150 threat (about half of a poison counter's worth of aggro). Silken whip of ensnaring proc is about twice as strong.

[Newt]

WESS is fantastic aggro weapon and I think FB/WESS is one of the best possible combos a warrior can outright purchase for a small fee in EC tunnel

Infestation is superior to either, and it isn't very hard to get at all. Plenty of them rot and Vilefang is only a 24h spawn requiring 1 solid group to kill.

Infestation + Frostbringer is probably the best possible tanking combination until you get epics

For a "Small fee"... Speak for yourself!

[fastboy21]

The goal is to hold aggro with white damage. Relying on procs for aggro is rolling the dice...white damage is 100% consistent.

Until you have a kit that lets you do that you need to rely on proc weapons. Most of the usual suspects have already been listed here in this thread. If you are a super twink and can afford to drop a ton of plat there are some high end weapons you can proc at lvl 1.

Personally, my fav aggro weps at low lvl are Infestation and Wavecrasher. Both proc from lvl 1 and are strong aggro weps you can use from lvl 1 all the way until raid gear/epic.

Trochilik's Skean is somewhat easy to get (folks let them rot) and decent too but doesn't proc until 46. Only putting it here because you prob find one for free if you are just starting out on the server.

The Tserinna whip is very good....but hella rare. Unless you get lucky and happen to get one I wouldn't invest the time doing this, but I agree its a very nice proc.

[smitho1984]

Blood point would be a better poison proc option, but will run ya close to 2k. Silken whip of ensnaring will get ya agro too but just like the WESS not sure the root aspect is something u want to deal with...

Blood point is lifetap proc not poison and silken whip is snare not root proc nor does WESS have a root proc aspect for clarification. Focus on white damage till 40's, fast ratio in primary and get haste item immediately. FBSS or CoF if you can afford it.

[Troxx]

Infestation + any relevant offhand weapon with a proc will get the job done. Even with 14/28 snare whip offhand you have enough white damage threat to hold you over until you score a proc. Unless Lady Luck hates you, with 200+ dex you should see your first proc in the first 20 seconds. I favor infestation and FB most of the time as 9/18 and 12/22 are solid ratios. I will bust out the WESS on longer/bigger fights if I know there are trigger-happy nukers ready to unload. To be honest though the difference in white threat between 12/22 and 11/23 for your offhand is fairly minimal. The proc on FB has a DD and ac debuff though which nets quite a bit more damage output. The ac debuff makes all melee damage from all sources a bit more effective.

I've done about 8 scout charisa fights on my Druid so far. The most solid aggro I've seen for this fight was a 57 warrior with WESS primary FB offhand. He scored a WESS proc in the first 2-3 seconds. As soon as I saw that proc Fire I unloaded with chain nukes @ 1024 a pop. 9 nukes later boss was dead and I didn't peel aggro. I've not been able to unload like this on any other run without ganking aggro, including a few fights with 60 pal vs sk tanking.

Procs are the meat and potatoes of warrior threat but a bad run of luck can leave you high and dry.

[Raev]

The real question is why weapon procs aren't capped at 400 hate like they should be.


--- We reduced the amount of hate that can be caused by a proc. Due to
the high proc rates at upper levels, the amount of hate generated from
procs, and the spells that were selected for those procs, made keeping
the attention of the creature much too easy a task for the tank.
Simply, it nearly eliminated the challenge of keeping a foes attention
at levels above 50.

<3 Abashi's 3rd grade grammar.

This should also substantially nerf mallets, puppet strings, and the bio orb as well.

[Raev]

with 200+ dex you should see your first proc in the first 20 seconds.

With 255 dex and two proccing weapons, you have a 50% chance of a proc with 14s, a 75% chance of a proc within 27s, a 90% chance of a proc within 45s, and a 95% chance of a proc within 58s. It's subjective, but in my opinion it's quite easy to go long periods without proccing, and god forbid you don't have a shaman around for 255 dex. This is why the bio orb is so powerful.

[Warmonger]

What would be a good MH OH for a new warrior I don't have much more than 3k for weapons. I don't have a haste as of yet.

[Qtip]

What would be a good MH OH for a new warrior I don't have much more than 3k for weapons. I don't have a haste as of yet.

Buy a Wess and scorpiks impaler. Save up 1k for schw

[Sonderbeast]

What would be a good MH OH for a new warrior I don't have much more than 3k for weapons. I don't have a haste as of yet.

2x Wakizashi of the Frozen SKies

You will thank me at level 20.

[Warmonger]

Thank you both for the help. So I should focus on getting proc weapons early on to tank?

[Snagglepuss]

Thank you both for the help. So I should focus on getting proc weapons early on to tank?

For what it's worth, when I leveled my warrior (Kunark era), I didn't bother using weapon processes to hold aggro until I could proc Ykesha at the minimum. Even then, if you can make it to 46, you can focus on weapon procs as the mobs are tougher and will take longer to kill by a group.

Part of the reason I went this route is that mobs die so quickly at lower levels and procs are so sporadic. I figured I was better off dps'ing with my staff of battle, dual lammies, or jade mace / fist of zek while letting the fungi IFS monk tank in between roots. Warriors are pretty terrible 40 through 50 in my opinion (because the skill caps). However after that they get considerably stronger with each level. I was always jealous of my monk pal Raev tanking just as well as me and doing more damage while holding aggro non-stop!

That being said, I'm sure there are even better dps options with nice damage procs now that Velious is out.

TLDR; it's kinda silly to wield a bad proc'ing ratio weapon on a trash exp mob for aggro purposes when its going to die in 15-20 seconds. If it's that important you tank, just ask for the mob to be rooted.

-Merimac McLanis