New Shaman - Buffing

[ryeandi]

Hiya. I'm a first-time Shaman that's really enjoying the class. Playing in groups is much more enjoyable to me than soloing so I try and do that most. I don't have much experience playing a lot of classes so I'm confused as to who I should be buffing and why. I just turned 11. I SoW everyone in my group but beyond that I've been calling for group members to ask for buffs. Some know what they want and others want everything. For mana efficiency I'd rather just buff based on class and ask for re-applies. So, which classes should I be buffing and with what?

Looking through my spell-line I have buffs for:
HitPoints
AC
agi
dex
str
sta
cha
resists

Thanks

[loramin]

It's been awhile since I buffed an under 60 group, but ...

AC, Stamina, strength and maybe dexterity for the tank. Also HP once you get it

Strength and maybe dexterity for other melees

Maybe Charisma on Bards/Enchanters

Everyone else (low priority): stamina (and HP once you get it), and maybe AC if you're bored/full of mana

Agility is basically worthless, and you should only do resists only when specifically needed (eg. you're about to fight a bunch of casters).

[bigjeff100]

Tank here- I want dex dex dex!!!

[ryeandi]

The dex maybe's I'm guessing are depending on whether they are carrying a proc'ing weapon? And the maybe on charisma for Bards/Enchanters is if they're charming? I think cha affects mez's for Enchanters too, correct?

I'm confused about agility. Doesn't that raise AC and help with defense? Seems like that would be a good buff for a tank.

Also, what about pets? I often duo with a Necro. Should I throw the tank buffs on his skelly or not bother? Also, he personally asks for the stamina buff too. Something to do with his ability to convert HPs into mana/heals. Is this a legitimate request?

[bigjeff100]

The dex maybe's I'm guessing are depending on whether they are carrying a proc'ing weapon? And the maybe on charisma for Bards/Enchanters is if they're charming? I think cha affects mez's for Enchanters too, correct?

I'm confused about agility. Doesn't that raise AC and help with defense? Seems like that would be a good buff for a tank.

Also, what about pets? I often duo with a Necro. Should I throw the tank buffs on his skelly or not bother? Also, he personally asks for the stamina buff too. Something to do with his ability to convert HPs into mana/heals. Is this a legitimate request?

As far as i knew, agility has no real benefits above the soft cap of 75.. If you were below the cap, then agility would add significant AC. Above that soft cap, agility really isn't going to help a tank.

[loramin]

The dex maybe's I'm guessing are depending on whether they are carrying a proc'ing weapon? And the maybe on charisma for Bards/Enchanters is if they're charming? I think cha affects mez's for Enchanters too, correct?

Correct, but I thought maybe Charisma helped Bards with something other than charm? Not sure.

I'm confused about agility. Doesn't that raise AC and help with defense? Seems like that would be a good buff for a tank.
As BigJeff100 said, below 75 Agility matters. After 75, it's extremely insignificant. It does add AC, but at a terrible ratio (your entire Agi buff might add 2-3 AC; try casting it on yourself and see), so it's not usually worth it.

Also, what about pets? I often duo with a Necro. Should I throw the tank buffs on his skelly or not bother? Also, he personally asks for the stamina buff too. Something to do with his ability to convert HPs into mana/heals. Is this a legitimate request?
When you're just duoing you have less people to buff, so the "should I waste mana on this buff?" bar gets lowered, but even if it wasn't I think all the tank buffs will benefit a pet.

As for the necro they (like Shaman) have a spell that let's them convert HP to mana, so that's why he (legitimately) wants stamina. Plus everyone likes more HP :) However, once you get Chloroplast/Regeneration that's when Necros will really love you, because their HP => Mana spell is passive, so passive regeneration balances it perfectly.

[ryeandi]

Thanks for the replies everyone. After reading here about the uselessness of agility I've been trying to figure out exactly why it's useless. From what I can gather, agility contributes to AC in the form of avoidance, where as worn/natural AC is seen in mitigation. What's confusing to me is that avoidance would be 100% mitigation. That doesn't seem useless unless the number of hits being avoided is insignificant. If my casting of Feet Like Cat helps a tank avoid 3 hits in a fight, I'd say that's worth it. If it only helps them avoid 3 hits over its duration, that would be a waste of mana. With as math-nerdy as people seem to be around here, I was surprised there isn't a clear answer (at least one I can find) as to exactly how much 1 point of agility contributes to the chance of avoiding a hit. I'll defer to those who know better and not cast it, but I'd still love to know why.

[Doctor Jeff]

TL;DR most of the thread but you guys are completely wrong about agility.

Parses over the course of 200 minutes in combat, with 100 AGI and 200 AGI respectively, indicate that every 10 points between 100-200 gives roughly 1% damage mitigation in avoidance.

10% mitigation from just an avatar proc, or 5% from a 52 point Deliriously Nimble is in no way negligible.

Edit: Between 75-100, you gain even more avoidance per point.

Values applicable at level 60*

[Pringles]

On my monk the difference between 100 and 255 agility can definitely be felt even without a parse. Huge avoidance.

I believe the AC buffs raise your softcap so it's also worth throwing on for min/mix.

[loramin]

TL;DR most of the thread but you guys are completely wrong about agility.

Parses over the course of 200 minutes in combat, with 100 AGI and 200 AGI respectively, indicate that every 10 points between 100-200 gives roughly 1% damage mitigation in avoidance.

10% mitigation from just an avatar proc, or 5% from a 52 point Deliriously Nimble is in no way negligible.

Edit: Between 75-100, you gain even more avoidance per point.

Values applicable at level 60*


We're not talking about raid buffing, we're talking about a level 11 Shaman here. Agility above 75 is meaningless (as are the Agi buffs low level Shaman get).

But yeah, someday it can be worthwhile, and that is worth mentioning.

[Tethler]

Nearly everything has been said already, but I would point out that giving the puller Magic Resist can be worthwhile as well once you get a few levels higher. I noticed it making a difference starting in the mid 20s at HHK goblin camp when the puller was often getting rooted before making it back to the party.

I also read somewhere here on the forums that giving str buff to pets had a significant impact on the pets rate of getting max damage rolls, though I have no confirmation or data to back that up. Maybe not a top priority, but also worth doing if mana permits.

[Jimjam]

AC and in secure to people that take regular hits, str to melees. Dex to tank with proc. charisma if someone is lulling or enchanter charming. Agi if you can push someone to 75+ agi.

Maybe agi on some one that takes hits if you can push them to 91+. Iirc that was the next step up in avoidance, but it was a much smaller one than 75.

I don't bother with stamina at low levels, it's an expensive buff for very little hp.

As someone mentioned spell AC is almost always worth it as it supersedes the work cap.

Mr to puller, and if tank is a war then him to. Being slowed on a warrior trashes his aggro.

[Raev]

+1 for agility. When I read the TAKP source code, I was surprised to realize that 100 agility is something like +10% avoidance ac. After that I went around proccing avatar with my shaman whenever he was tanking.

Low level shamans are pretty much garbage. Forget about Torpor; you don't even have regen, canni, haste, pet, or slow over 50%. So I'd focus on heals (with inner fire!) and hand out buffs if/when you are over 50% mana or so with the primary goal being to keep your group mates happy.

You'll find that small groups tax your mana pool a lot less. You'll have fewer players to buff and fewer npcs to debuff due to lower damage. In my opinion the Shaman shines in duos and trios. Monk, Necro, and SK are probably the best matches, but practically any two classes will work.

[Dalyana4215]

I don't know if I would say that Agi is meaningless at 75+. When i offtank on my 60 monk(162 agi) I take far less damage than the 60 ranger I normally group with that has similar ac, but agi is much lower. It is even more noticeable with shaman AGI buff that puts me over 200.

[ScaringChildren]

At level 11, don't even worry about STA or AGI buffs. They will become useful at later levels though.

Tank
Give STR
Give DEX (they usually have weapons that proc)
Give AC (if you don't have a Cleric in your group)

Melee DPS
Give STR
Give AC (if you don't have a Cleric in your group)

Crowd Control(Enchanter/Bard)
Give CHA
Give AC (if you don't have a Cleric in your group)

That's the basics at level 11. Heal if you don't have a Cleric and DPS if you do.

At this level, you just buff and try to help the group in whatever way you can.

Also, Shamans don't really slow mobs until around 30ish as the low level mobs usually die too quick.

[loramin]

I don't know if I would say that Agi is meaningless at 75+. When i offtank on my 60 monk(162 agi) I take far less damage than the 60 ranger I normally group with that has similar ac, but agi is much lower. It is even more noticeable with shaman AGI buff that puts me over 200.

We're not talking about raid buffing, we're talking about a level 11 Shaman here. Agility above 75 is meaningless (as are the Agi buffs low level Shaman get).

But yeah, someday it can be worthwhile, and that is worth mentioning.

FWIW as others have correctly pointed out, Stamina-buffing also has incredibly low returns at that level, and probably isn't worthwhile either.