Scout's an absolute joke. So let's change the "rules"

[Jan Jensen]

I know I'm not alone when I think this set of "rules" imposed by a minority of players on the server at large is a bunch of hogwash.

So, here's a compromise:

Between the hours of 6pm - 6am Est, you can have your /random where 40 people show up and put no effort forth to get free loot.
Between the hours of 6am - 6pm Est, we fall back on a clickfest, where 10-15 people show up and have to at least try for a turnin. And, yes, they're allowed to transfer loot rights to a friend or buyer.

[Swish2]

This doesn't sound very fair on Euro (or Russian/Asian) time zone players.

[Swish2]

they're allowed to transfer loot rights to a ... buyer.


You don't want to open that Pandora's Box, you just lengthened your odds on winning the roll by a noticeable amount.

[zodium]

Sorry pal, this doesn't sound very reasonable. There are just a lot of people rolling because the items are good and the barrier to entry is low. Short of mechanics changes, a roll is the least bad option. Click fests are worse.

[Foxplay]

Sorry you didn't win the roll

[indiscriminate_hater]

Sorry you didn't win the roll

[Sadiki]

Spoken by a true hero who clearly did not live in that clickfest hell. Let the people roll their dice.

[deezy]

I miss the clickfest

[yooperdave23]

I like the roll.

[Rizzle]

The clickfest was the absolute worst. Keep the roll.

[ScaringChildren]

I don't even know what we're talking about but I disagree anyway

[Jan Jensen]

Spoken by a true hero who clearly did not live in that clickfest hell. Let the people roll their dice.

Wrong.

There are just a lot of people rolling because the items are good and the barrier to entry is low.


That's the thing, there is no barrier to entry right now. Faction? pfft. You show up, you get free loot - you don't even need friends for it. Personally, I'm a fan of not letting simple chance dictating whether you accomplish something or not.

[feniin]

This is the only good thing on the server. Stop trying to ruin it.

[Wonkie]

The clickfest was the absolute worst. Keep the roll.

[Cecily]

I argued for you win roll you decided what happens to disk, alts or sales included. I have two alts I’m not allowed to roll for who aren’t factioned and won’t be factioned till they get a disk. They won’t ever have one under this rule set and it’s stupid.

I convinced a lot of people on this compromise in the thread that got this implemented but got drowned out by people screeching HOW DO WE KNOW YOU WONT SELL IT?!

[Nexii]

Highest platinum bid wins, winner of the roll gets the plat after Captain dies
Only semi serious about this just throwing it out there

[Cecily]

Speaking of drowning out with dumb ideas.

[Champion_Standing]

Best solution is to wipe it clean

[Phenyo]

Rolling is awful, should be FTE

[Nexii]

Idea #2
Whoever gets yellow text on Captain should get the disk. This one encourages guild/friend groups to come help

[aaezil]

100 players made an enforced rule happen for 2k+ players wrap your head around that one

[feniin]

Anyone who doesn't like scout roll doesn't like good things. Scout and Ring 8 are some of the only decent things about this server. Player agreements are much better than dick waving clickfests. Work together you numpties.

[Nexii]

I'm trolling, the roll off is fine. You should be able to sell the disk or loot it on whatever alt you want, or give it to a friend though

Autofire era was dumb, a very few people would usually win and half the Captains would rot

[enjchanter]

Sorry pal, this doesn't sound very reasonable. There are just a lot of people rolling because the items are good and the barrier to entry is low. Short of mechanics changes, a roll is the least bad option. Click fests are worse.

As someone who lost the ring 8 roll 61 times total (which is a much higher Barrier to entry) before finally getting it on a quake, I feel like a roll is the most fair way to do it and agree with gat. As soon as you let buyers loot the piece you will have people literally show up every day lotto style for their chance at an easy 20-30k

Fun side note: One time me and a guildie actually tied for the winning roll and rather than a re roll we dueled for it in front of the crowd which was a fun experience (even though I was brutally slain lol)

[loramin]

That's the thing, there is no barrier to entry right now. Faction? pfft. You show up, you get free loot - you don't even need friends for it. Personally, I'm a fan of not letting simple chance dictating whether you accomplish something or not.


I'm a fan of not letting simple chance dictating whether you accomplish something or not

What do you think a click fest is?!? Unless you use autofire, it's simple chance dictating whether you accomplish something or not.

Clickfest and /random are both random rolls: the only difference is one is fair to everyone, and one allows cheaters to potentially use banned (but hard to detect) programs.

[Dithien]

DKP Scout roll. Maintained by OP. 1 DKP per Scout roll attended.

[zodium]

What do you think a click fest is?!? Unless you use autofire, it's simple chance dictating whether you accomplish something or not.

Clickfest and /random are both random rolls: the only difference is one is fair to everyone, and one allows cheaters to potentially use banned (but hard to detect) programs.

A clickfest isn't chance based. Specifically, it overwhelmingly goes to low ping player(s).

That's why back in clickwar days, the "FTE" would invariably be won by a few players like Taborlin, who used a combination of low pings and prepositioned trade windows to consistently win the turnin, then either sell the MQ or let the mobs depop if they couldn't. That's before you even get into autofire or client alteration speculation; this was all potentially legitimate under clickwar rules.

Gatmanno only got his Talisman because Taborlin took pity on me one day and let me bring an Awakened force for a turnin he couldn't kill anyway. My odds of winning were extremely low, simply because of my ping being >100ms. :o

[loramin]

A clickfest isn't chance based. Specifically, it overwhelmingly goes to low ping player(s).

That's why back in clickwar days, the "FTE" would invariably be won by a few players like Taborlin, who used a combination of low pings and prepositioned trade windows to consistently win the turnin, then either sell the MQ or let the mobs depop if they couldn't. That's before you even get into autofire or client alteration speculation; this was all potentially legitimate under clickwar rules.

Gatmanno only got his Talisman because Taborlin took pity on me one day and let me bring an Awakened force for a turnin he couldn't kill anyway. My odds of winning were extremely low, simply because of my ping being >100ms. :o

I'm skeptical that Autofire was never a factor, but that's a really excellent point. So to revise what I said, both are random, but rolls are random in a way that's fair to everyone, whereas clickfests are random but (heavily?) biased towards people with low ping connections (and/or a willingness to cheat).

The point remains that if OP claims to be against random rolls, then they should be against click fests, because click fests are still random rolls (or worse) unless the OP happens to have an exceptionally good connection and/or plans to cheat.

[Nexii]

50k from winning a scout roll sure would have been nice when I was levelling as a cleric. I would have passed up Talisman to buy my epic and been very happy with that

[Jan Jensen]

Clickfests ain't random... and they require more effort on a person's part than simply showing up. And, by that token, they weed out half the people who don't have the initiative to put forth that effort, automatically assume the world is out to get them, and give up in dejection.

Whereas, with /random, anyone and their inbred cousin shows up for free loot. Nothing personal against Kentucky.

[icedwards]

Clickfests ain't random... and they require more effort on a person's part than simply showing up. And, by that token, they weed out half the people who don't have the initiative to put forth that effort, automatically assume the world is out to get them, and give up in dejection.

Whereas, with /random, anyone and their inbred cousin shows up for free loot. Nothing personal against Kentucky.

You're about to enter year 4 of Velious, nerd.

[Nexii]

The roll off should be after Captain dies. Then everyone has to at least have to put in the effort to help kill.

[Jan Jensen]

Year 19 really.

[Lammy]

18

[Cecily]

17

[SamwiseRed]

eq, the elf dress up simulator

[Canelek]

Awww. Was AutoFire not a free app?

[Doil_Boil]

I like how this thread backfired for OP

[Jan Jensen]

Entire server is a backfire for EQ nostalgia, so you just resign yourself to that fact in the end.

I like how this thread backfired for OP

[Swish2]

Enable pvp and make it a no customer service zone.

Is your body ready?

[Jorgam]

Yeah lets make it an all spam, model squeeze, shit fest again! I loved losing to Shiftyfiver every day! Sometimes twice a day. It was the best. Speaking of, is that you, Shifty?

I'm fine with losing a roll and then helping out, but the clickfest was a lose/lose situation unless you were one of a few cheaters that won every time. No thanks.

[White_knight]

As someone who lost the ring 8 roll 61 times total (which is a much higher Barrier to entry) before finally getting it on a quake, I feel like a roll is the most fair way to do it and agree with gat. As soon as you let buyers loot the piece you will have people literally show up every day lotto style for their chance at an easy 20-30k

Fun side note: One time me and a guildie actually tied for the winning roll and rather than a re roll we dueled for it in front of the crowd which was a fun experience (even though I was brutally slain lol)

This made me smile. People still enjoying EQ =)

[Droxx]

Scout roll is literally a pixel welfare line.

Solution? Stop killing the mob for everyone who wins.

40 people show up and 1 wins the roll? Cool, hope they have a friend or two, because everyone that didn't win should go on their way.

Until you abolish the system of handing out free loot (a la everyone helping kill the encounter), people will show up en masse to collect the handout.

[jpetrick]

Random 1k for winner; winner should be able to do what they want with their disc and should have to provide their own kill force

[Metham]

Random 1k for winner; winner should be able to do what they want with their disc and should have to provide their own kill force

This right here needs to be an option in the poll so i can change my vote.
Gotta bring my own kill force to ring roll.

[Frudrura]

I haven't done scout roll for a couple of years. I heard about the rolling thing but everyone stays behind to help with the encounter? During clickfest if you got it, I think the way it was done was you had to bring your own force for the captain.

I can see why people would be upset if that is how it is done now.

[Wonkie]

the premise of these replies seems to be: dedication is necessary to deserve pixels

I submit to you a question: why? this is a video game

[Legidias]

Petition to rename clickfest to autofirefest, macrofest, third party program fest, etc...

[branamil]

One time I played a video game where I stood in line for 3 months to get +20 health to wrist.

[Misek84]

Clickfest will just skew the results towards a few (mostlikely rmt’er using autofire)

Being able to sell/give loot rights away will just increase the number of people rolling/clicking.

Even though the current situation isnt perfect its a whole lot more fair towards the majority of players than the alternatives.

[Ravager]

Let the neckbeards have their bracers and move on with your life. Velious was beat with Kunark gear. You don't need it.

[Kesselring]

Let the neckbeards have their bracers and move on with your life. Velious was beat with Kunark gear. You don't need it.

Think thats the problem tho. The neckbeards arent getting their bracers coz the noobs coming in and relying on everyone else there for the kill as well. Im sure the neckbeards would rather go with the clickfest as that would mean they could get 2 bracers the same day, rather than 1 bracer in 3 months.

Im personally fine with how it is now but expecting everyone to help all the time is a bit ridiculous. If someone wants to log to go to sleep because they lost let them. Theres plenty of good spirited people there to help, dont need 40 people to kill a mob that could be duod.

[Tetsuo]

Think this should be in RnF

[indiscriminate_hater]

hiring an autofiring scumbag to get my disk was the best 20k I ever spent

[Wonkie]

hiring an autofiring scumbag to get my disk was the best 20k I ever spent

[Nexii]

hiring an autofiring scumbag to get my disk was the best 20k I ever spent

Wow you got a deal. Back then I offered 30k and no one would sell at all. Going price got up to 50k

[wagorf]

cry us a river op

nobody gonna give a damn abt ur proposition

[Leiker]

No thanks.

Its much better now than before. Only problem is scrubs that log off after rolling instead of helping and turds who bring low level useless chars, but I can live with that to be honest.

If the disk was sellable of passable, it would be a much bigger shitshow, so I am glad that it is not.

[Doil_Boil]

I would support making the roll level 60 only.

[snyder43]

I would support making the roll level 60 only.

I'm surprised it took until page 7 for someone to suggest a level requirement. Level 60 only might be a little too strict, though.

[icedwards]

I would support making the roll level 60 only.

Player made agreements work because they allow everyone to roll, arbitrary restrictions are dumb.

[Jimjam]

I think the lower level the winner the better. It's not a huge upgrade to a 60. Pretty awesome for a melee in their 40s though.

[Erati]

Glad I earned mine in the “wild west” clickfests with BDA monitoring the spawn.

Back then if you summoned a pet near the spawn, Chest would personally deal with you.

#ComehomeChest

[Girthro]

I've won 5 times when it was a clickfest and I am so happy it's a roll now. I have won 0 times after it became a roll, but that clickfest ate dick.

[aaezil]

I would support making the roll level 60 only.

plz god yes

just need 100 lvl 60s to make the new petition thread and done

[skarlorn]

i've boycotted this quest ever since velious was released due to the chancre sore it imposes upon the existential frame of any sentient being forced to perceive the autistic bottleneck which the p99 playerbase, like so many parasitic larvae, latch on to in a desperate attempt to cram themselves to the other side, the promised land of +30 hp wrist slots and ranged items with good stats for casters. the roll is the only thing keeping people from ending their lives (seriously)

[Ravager]

That might be the best Filbus scribing yet.

[Swish2]

I would support making the roll level 60 only.

Not everyone can clear the late 50s in a hurry, and with the chances slim...why make it 60 only?

Maybe what's needed here is actually a blacklist of people who log out.

[branamil]

In trying times like these we should stop and ponder what the original developers intended by making a trivial quest bottleneck at 10 hours. Oh wait they were all on drugs and this quest is distilled autism. Have fun pressing /ran for the next 3 months in the hopes of getting a marginal upgrade so you can slay polygons the same way you have been (stats don't matter). BF Skinner would be proud

[Triode]

Simple fix: new minimum level req. of 60 to hand in tools to Charisa and complete the quest. Player agreement amended so only level 60's can roll. It would be a nice reward at the top, and there would be no more having to roll against dozens of low level alts.

[icedwards]

A reminder that Velious was beaten 3 years ago in Kunark gear. Hard cringe at anyone proposing level requirements for elfsim barbie dress-up.

[Wonkie]

55+ is a reasonable number

[Doil_Boil]

A reminder that Velious was beaten 3 years ago in Kunark gear. Hard cringe at anyone proposing level requirements for elfsim barbie dress-up.

Hard cringe at people who say hard cringe

[ScaringChildren]

Hard cringe at people who say hard cringe

https://i.imgur.com/QFMZCbE.jpg

[Erati]

Can we get a zone wide shout that explains the Scout roll rules each time the roll officially is about to commence so no one is unclear as to what is going on or if the ruleset changes?

[Wonkie]

Can we get a zone wide shout that explains the Scout roll rules each time the roll officially is about to commence so no one is unclear as to what is going on or if the ruleset changes?

is scout roll staff enforced? under the impression it's only a lack of courage preventing the return of clickfest.

[Nixtar]

In trying times like these we should stop and ponder what the original developers intended by making a trivial quest bottleneck at 10 hours. Oh wait they were all on drugs and this quest is distilled autism. Have fun pressing /ran for the next 3 months in the hopes of getting a marginal upgrade so you can slay polygons the same way you have been (stats don't matter). BF Skinner would be proud

Immersion is the common idea yet one has to wonder what's immersive about a static world where everyone who dies pop back into existence. Where you can also find other people who pop back into existence but in different places with no clothes on, who are in turn camping the other non-player characters who pop back into existence with a random chance of carrying something different.

Perhaps the NPCs are time travellers trying to repair a mistake as we players are locked in a constant loop of endless war as we commit atrocity after atrocity in the form of murder and genocide.

I mean the most common way to raise a faction is either an insane obsession with muffins (contributing to obesity in Norrath) or wholesale slaughter of hundreds of creatures just so someone else might like us more.

#shutitdown before we lose ourselves completely. :(

[Phantasm]

They got rid of click fest and we still complain? What have we become?

I think click fest was fair at 19ms

[loramin]

They got rid of click fest and we still complain?

I think "we" might be to strong of a word: the people complaining are the minority.

[Phantasm]

Humans always complain.

That's why I rolled iksar. We endure

[Whackin]

Hail lizard brother!

In response to the OP, having lived through the clickfest era AND managing Scout DKP for our guild for a year, updating 2.4 times per day EVERY DAMN day, and dealing with all the drama and revisions to our rules regarding that insanity, a roll-off sounds heavenly! Despite the PTSD it caused me, I'll admit the clickfest was fun though at some times (usually when we won it).

[Phenyo]

Scout DKP

lmao BDA

[Chrysus]

Simple fix: new minimum level req. of 60 to hand in tools to Charisa and complete the quest. Player agreement amended so only level 60's can roll. It would be a nice reward at the top, and there would be no more having to roll against dozens of low level alts.

I agree and would like to see this change.

[OfftuneRZ]

2018 and you blue server nerds are still complaining about scout.

[Whackin]

lmao BDA

We called them SCP, Scout Charisa Points. You couldn't exactly loot council that madness and it was a real pain in the ass to keep up with. Don't let it be said that BDA was completely opposed to DKP mechanics!

[aaezil]

38 people at roll this morning lots of low lvl 50s

Only you have the power to stop the madness

[Ravager]

There are lots of things 38 people can do in the morning to stop the madness. Exercise, meditate, read, walk, go to work, go to school, groom, etc.

[Metham]

How am i supposed to double bracer my naggy/vox toon with lvl 60 req?

[Kesselring]

How am i supposed to double bracer my naggy/vox toon with lvl 60 req?

This, THINK ABOUT THE ALTS!

[Rainik Stormseeker]

Think this should be in RnF

[branamil]

the p99 playerbase, like so many parasitic larvae, latch on to in a desperate attempt to cram themselves to the other side, the promised land of +30 hp wrist slots and ranged items with good stats for casters

[indiscriminate_hater]

Simple fix: new minimum level req. of 60 to hand in tools to Charisa and complete the quest. Player agreement amended so only level 60's can roll. It would be a nice reward at the top, and there would be no more having to roll against dozens of low level alts.

So then people park one of their 60 toons for the roll and log over to the alt to loot it

[tylercanuck]

Yeah lets make it an all spam, model squeeze, shit fest again! I loved losing to Shiftyfiver every day! Sometimes twice a day. It was the best. Speaking of, is that you, Shifty?

I'm fine with losing a roll and then helping out, but the clickfest was a lose/lose situation unless you were one of a few cheaters that won every time. No thanks.

And he denies ever cheating to this day...

[BarackObooma]

I vote for top two rollers (or highest & lowest) duel to the death, winner take all.

This would also discourage but not totally eliminate pre-60 alts. It would also be an entertaining consolation prize for the losers.

Or, roll takes place after the captain dies to ensure everyone puts in effort.

[JackofSpade]

Attendance taken after kill. Top 3 highest total attended roll. Level 55+ only

[Doil_Boil]

I vote for top two rollers (or highest & lowest) duel to the death, winner take all.

This would also discourage but not totally eliminate pre-60 alts. It would also be an entertaining consolation prize for the losers.

Or, roll takes place after the captain dies to ensure everyone puts in effort.

So somebody that didn’t win has to get their tools again?

[Stroboo]

Loot is not required in this game, if you don't like the rules that were put in place specifically for overall player mental health - just move on and pretend that loot does not exist - i have done this for my shaman, necro and SK epics...

[aaezil]

^Incorrect, scout rules weren't put in for mental health, they were put in because 100 players voted on a thread and made a rule that now applies to 2k+ players

[Xaeophi]

I bought my two bracers of benevolence from some dude with an auto clicker. Best 20k ever spent.

[loramin]

Attendance taken after kill. Top 3 highest total attended roll. Level 55+ only

While I like the idea of treating Scout like guild loot .... who is going to show up to every scout roll to take attendance? And what three other players from different guilds are going to keep copies of those attendance records to ensure that no one cheats and changes the numbers?

^Incorrect, scout rules weren't put in for mental health, they were put in because 100 players voted on a thread and made a rule that now applies to 2k+ players

And whether they said it or not, I'm all but certain the staff's sanity was a factor. The clickfest must have been a frequent source of petitions for them.

[JackofSpade]

While I like the idea of treating Scout like guild loot .... who is going to show up to every scout roll to take attendance? And what three other players from different guilds are going to keep copies of those attendance records to ensure that no one cheats and changes the numbers?

Making sure attendance was tracked honestly would obviously be the most difficult part of this type of system but if enough people were in favor of something like that I am sure it could be worked out to make cheating very very difficult. And if staff was behind the idea a permanent account ban if caught manipulating would make for an excellent deterrent.

[Jorgam]

Making sure attendance was tracked honestly would obviously be the most difficult part of this type of system but if enough people were in favor of something like that I am sure it could be worked out to make cheating very very difficult. And if staff was behind the idea a permanent account ban if caught manipulating would make for an excellent deterrent.

What we don't need at scout is a bureaucracy. An agreed upon lvl min and required no-role or anon toons where winning toon must loot the disk, would be enough to declutter the scout roll.

[aaezil]

55+ ammendment make it so just need 100 of us

[Jimjam]

38 low 50s are capable of killing captain so I don't see the sense in banning their participation.

[aaezil]

Its 2018. How long has it been velious a decade now or so?

[indiscriminate_hater]

Is this rule GM-enforced?

[remen]

What we don't need at scout is a bureaucracy. An agreed upon lvl min and required no-role or anon toons where winning toon must loot the disk, would be enough to declutter the scout roll.

You've described exactly how it already works unless I am missing something, and it is quite cluttered as is. It's not the worst way to do it but it's a massive crapshoot and can be frustrating that's some people are winning for the 4th / 5th time (or more), while others have gone 40 or 50 rolls and still haven't won once for their main.

38 low 50s are capable of killing captain so I don't see the sense in banning their participation.

While this is true, setting the min to 55 would reward people who have put more time into their char, increase the chances for people who still haven't won on their main, and raise the barrier to entry so that there are hopefully less roll offs consisting of 40-50 players.

[fortior]

While this is true, setting the min to 55 would reward people who have put more time into their char, increase the chances for people who still haven't won on their main, and raise the barrier to entry so that there are hopefully less roll offs consisting of 40-50 players.

Setting the min to 56 would reward people who have put even more time into their char and would make the pool of rollers smaller still.

[zodium]

Only I should be allowed to roll, IMO.

[Wonkie]

55 is very reasonable

[aaezil]

55 is very reasonable

[JackofSpade]

What we don't need at scout is a bureaucracy. An agreed upon lvl min and required no-role or anon toons where winning toon must loot the disk, would be enough to declutter the scout roll.

Not sure how my suggestion would constitute a bureaucracy, it is a player enforced meritocracy where those who have put in the most time are at the top of the list. All I was suggesting in regards to staff involvement is an extremely harsh punishment for cheaters who try to manipulate attendance logs.

[icedwards]

All elves are equal, but some elves are more equal than others.

[loramin]

Making sure attendance was tracked honestly would obviously be the most difficult part of this type of system but if enough people were in favor of something like that I am sure it could be worked out to make cheating very very difficult. And if staff was behind the idea a permanent account ban if caught manipulating would make for an excellent deterrent.

Not sure how my suggestion would constitute a bureaucracy, it is a player enforced meritocracy where those who have put in the most time are at the top of the list. All I was suggesting in regards to staff involvement is an extremely harsh punishment for cheaters who try to manipulate attendance logs.

You're clearly new or newish to the high-end P99 scene, and so you're naturally (not blaming you) unaware of the history of agreements and interactions between end-game players here.

But rather than give you an oral history of P99 ("in my day TMO ran this server, and I had to walk uphill in the snow, both ways, to get to a raid ...") instead just take it from someone with too high of a post count: what you're describing will never work here, and threats of bans from the staff will not stop people from trying to cheat. Just as importantly, the staff do not have the time to police a player agreement by monitoring a ledger that changes three times a day to make sure no one cheats.

Any solution to any problem on P99 needs to be heavily optimized towards being as little effort as possible on everyone's part (both the staff and players), and must be clear and transparently fair despite said optimization. "Everyone must roll": doable. "Everyone must be 55 (or 56 or whatever) to roll": also doable. Anything that involves tracking a 3/day event with an honest ledger maintained by multiple players that the staff monitors to ensure stays honest: never going to happen.

[Wonkie]

You're clearly new or newish to the high-end P99 scene, and so you're naturally (not blaming you) unaware of the history of agreements and interactions between end-game players here.



drain the swamp

[loramin]

drain the swamp

Green 2020! Green 2020! ;)

[Erati]

New P99 forum drinking game - each time Loramin makes a post that has the words "Green Server" or "Green99" - you must take a shot or do your drugs.

[remen]

Setting the min to 56 would reward people who have put even more time into their char and would make the pool of rollers smaller still.

I picked 55 arbitrarily thinking it is a nice reward for getting through the hell level of 54. Plus, if someone has finished the grind through 54 they are pretty dedicated to that character and it's less likely the item will sit on some unplayed / barely played alt. Also, 55 is the speed limit on a lot of roads.

[zodium]

New P99 forum drinking game - each time Loramin makes a post that has the words "Green Server" or "Green99" - you must take a shot or do your drugs.

Moving on from slaying dragons to slaying players I see, Tani? :o

[snyder43]

I picked 55 arbitrarily thinking it is a nice reward for getting through the hell level of 54. Plus, if someone has finished the grind through 54 they are pretty dedicated to that character and it's less likely the item will sit on some unplayed / barely played alt. Also, 55 is the speed limit on a lot of roads.

Why hasn't someone made this into a poll yet? I expect that it will fail, but whatever.

[Phantasm]

If this truly is the state of P99 EQ yikes. A roll off is universally fair. Youre not special, the loot is not "yours"

If my 23rd alt wants a disk to rot in inventory then by Cabilis it will be that way

[White_knight]

Rofl at the guy who would win the roll then try sell it and if no one bought it would let it rot/depop.

Can only imagine how many fat rolls this guy has, and how his "office" chair creaks under the strain of shifting loads as he reaches for his doritos.

[loramin]

New P99 forum drinking game - each time Loramin makes a post that has the words "Green Server" or "Green99" - you must take a shot or do your drugs.

Now I'm going to mention Green in every post I make, just for you :p But to be fair, every time I do I'll pack a nice big bowl (you should see the size of my piece) and smoke it.

[remen]

If this truly is the state of P99 EQ yikes. A roll off is universally fair. Youre not special, the loot is not "yours"

If my 23rd alt wants a disk to rot in inventory then by Cabilis it will be that way

You're not special either and you are playing a multi player game on a server with other people. Sure it's not technically against any rules to win a 23rd disc and have it rot in your inventory, but how about just don't be a dick and pass on it to others who will actually get use out of it?

This is a social game and it's at its best when players are treating each other with decency. Speaking from personal experience some of the most fun times I have had were times I ended up randomly helping a noob out with something with no expectation of getting anything for myself, and then getting to share in their excitement at experiencing something new in the game.

[aaezil]

55+ make it happen bros

[fortior]

I picked 55 arbitrarily thinking it is a nice reward for getting through the hell level of 54. Plus, if someone has finished the grind through 54 they are pretty dedicated to that character and it's less likely the item will sit on some unplayed / barely played alt. Also, 55 is the speed limit on a lot of roads.

I don't know, I think level 55s aren't nearly as dedicated as level 60s, and if you're level 60 and don't have your epic do you even care about your character? My vote is for level 60 with epic and at LEAST one BiS item.

[Jimjam]

I vote only 51s-59s may participate.

[loramin]

I vote only 51s-59s may participate.

I can already see the pile of un-rezzed corpses every neckbeard will create just before each Scout roll :)

I'm sure a lot of them will be wearing Green armor ...

[remen]

I don't know, I think level 55s aren't nearly as dedicated as level 60s, and if you're level 60 and don't have your epic do you even care about your character? My vote is for level 60 with epic and at LEAST one BiS item.

You make great points, thank you so much for your vote.

[aaezil]

On the verge of a breakthrough and people are trolling send help

[Jimjam]

The breakthrough would be CSR attending a few scouts in ghost mode and observing habitual roll/not helpers and handing out bans for the offenders.

[Phenyo]

The breakthrough would be CSR attending a few scouts in ghost mode and observing habitual roll/not helpers and handing out bans for the offenders.

That sounds very dystopian, miniluv

[Jimjam]

I know, awesome, right! Maybe throw out some raid bans too!

As a Brit dystopian governance is what I am most familiar with.

[Check12345]

I know, awesome, right! Maybe throw out some raid bans too!

As a Brit dystopian governance is what I am most familiar with.

sorry about your brexit

[Etherelia]

Pretty simple actually. Change scout respawn to 1 hour. In about 1 week it will be down to a normal amount of players.

Then it would be more like classic/live, where Scout is up most of the time but you don't get a free raid force to kill the Captain anymore, you have to bring your own.

Kills two birds with one stone, gets ppl their quest gear and fixes the 'free loot' concept, as very quickly there will be the Scout left up unattended because there is not a force to engage.

Alot of encounters on p99 could be fixed by a faster spawn timer, letting ppl get their pixels, and everyone stop arguing over windows and socking, but that's a bigger discussion.

Make scout 1hr.

[JackofSpade]

Pretty simple actually. Change scout respawn to 1 hour. In about 1 week it will be down to a normal amount of players.

Then it would be more like classic/live, where Scout is up most of the time but you don't get a free raid force to kill the Captain anymore, you have to bring your own.

Kills two birds with one stone, gets ppl their quest gear and fixes the 'free loot' concept, as very quickly there will be the Scout left up unattended because there is not a force to engage.

Alot of encounters on p99 could be fixed by a faster spawn timer, letting ppl get their pixels, and everyone stop arguing over windows and socking, but that's a bigger discussion.

Make scout 1hr.

Without commenting on whether or not this is a good idea, it's not classic and it's not gonna happen.

[Etherelia]

Without commenting on whether or not this is a good idea, it's not classic and it's not gonna happen.

Sigh, why did I know the first response was going to be 'not classic'.

Neither is FTE. Neither is Sont's AE being a proc. Neither is the leashing rules in NToV that allow pulling to zone. Neither is the current state of the Sneak skill. Neither is half a dozen spells that don't work like classic. There are no class based XP penalties like classic. Levitate for boats to avoid collision issues didn't exist on live. Neither is FD's memblur. Restrictions on swarming did not exist, nor AOE targets. etc etc etc

If people ever want to see progress in this game and things like this made better, they need to realize that this game is not classic right now and stop using that argument. Improvements that are not classic are all over p99. It's 2018, it's time to continue to improve upon the game in other quality of life areas. Add the PoP trade skill UI to save everyone's carpal tunnel. Add Surefall glade TP spells to save the damn WK walks. Turn off coin weight, or fix the coin WR bags. Reduce timers so more people can actually see content and play the game. We all have jobs and kids and none of us can play 18hrs a day anymore.

I'm not saying change the game to be not like EQ, but adapt to the community and times to make some small changes that will help out the current player base in 2018.

Let's start with something small.... the scout timer. It's no drop gear, so the economy is not affected. It will be more like classic in the end, requiring you to drag a few groups out to kill the captain instead of a free shot twice a day. Nobody loses with that small change, and it enhances everyone's gameplay.

[Bummey]

Neither is the current state of the Sneak skill.

?

[aaezil]

Almost a week since the creation of this thread and scout is still a joke and still terrible. Lets keep the idea/action train chuggin

[Wonkie]

Sigh, why did I know the first response was going to be 'not classic'.

Neither is FTE. Neither is Sont's AE being a proc. Neither is the leashing rules in NToV that allow pulling to zone. Neither is the current state of the Sneak skill. Neither is half a dozen spells that don't work like classic. There are no class based XP penalties like classic. Levitate for boats to avoid collision issues didn't exist on live. Neither is FD's memblur. Restrictions on swarming did not exist, nor AOE targets. etc etc etc

If people ever want to see progress in this game and things like this made better, they need to realize that this game is not classic right now and stop using that argument. Improvements that are not classic are all over p99. It's 2018, it's time to continue to improve upon the game in other quality of life areas. Add the PoP trade skill UI to save everyone's carpal tunnel. Add Surefall glade TP spells to save the damn WK walks. Turn off coin weight, or fix the coin WR bags. Reduce timers so more people can actually see content and play the game. We all have jobs and kids and none of us can play 18hrs a day anymore.

I'm not saying change the game to be not like EQ, but adapt to the community and times to make some small changes that will help out the current player base in 2018.

Let's start with something small.... the scout timer. It's no drop gear, so the economy is not affected. It will be more like classic in the end, requiring you to drag a few groups out to kill the captain instead of a free shot twice a day. Nobody loses with that small change, and it enhances everyone's gameplay.

go play a different game this is everquest

[aaezil]

The game hes playing isnt classic everquest though

[zodium]

Sigh, why did I know the first response was going to be 'not classic'.

Neither is FTE. Neither is Sont's AE being a proc. Neither is the leashing rules in NToV that allow pulling to zone. Neither is the current state of the Sneak skill. Neither is half a dozen spells that don't work like classic. There are no class based XP penalties like classic. Levitate for boats to avoid collision issues didn't exist on live. Neither is FD's memblur. Restrictions on swarming did not exist, nor AOE targets. etc etc etc

If people ever want to see progress in this game and things like this made better, they need to realize that this game is not classic right now and stop using that argument. Improvements that are not classic are all over p99. It's 2018, it's time to continue to improve upon the game in other quality of life areas. Add the PoP trade skill UI to save everyone's carpal tunnel. Add Surefall glade TP spells to save the damn WK walks. Turn off coin weight, or fix the coin WR bags. Reduce timers so more people can actually see content and play the game. We all have jobs and kids and none of us can play 18hrs a day anymore.

I'm not saying change the game to be not like EQ, but adapt to the community and times to make some small changes that will help out the current player base in 2018.

Let's start with something small.... the scout timer. It's no drop gear, so the economy is not affected. It will be more like classic in the end, requiring you to drag a few groups out to kill the captain instead of a free shot twice a day. Nobody loses with that small change, and it enhances everyone's gameplay.

No

[JackofSpade]

Almost a week since the creation of this thread and scout is still a joke and still terrible. Lets keep the idea/action train chuggin

Amen. To me out of the changes presented so far the level 55+ restriction seems like the best suggestion that is also still viable to implement.

[kaev]

Amen. To me out of the changes presented so far the level 55+ restriction seems like the best suggestion that is also still viable to implement.

"Best" is relative. None of these suggestions counter abusive behavior between players, none counter an ongoing abuse/exploit of game mechanics, none promote a more "classic" feel to gameplay. therefore each and every one of them is terrible in the context of Project 1999.

There is a pretty obvious underlying method to our p99 overlords' madness, it's not at all about giving shiny pixels to you personally.

[loramin]

Sigh, why did I know the first response was going to be 'not classic'.

Neither is FTE. Neither is Sont's AE being a proc. Neither is the leashing rules in NToV that allow pulling to zone. Neither is the current state of the Sneak skill. Neither is half a dozen spells that don't work like classic. There are no class based XP penalties like classic. Levitate for boats to avoid collision issues didn't exist on live. Neither is FD's memblur. Restrictions on swarming did not exist, nor AOE targets. etc etc etc

If people ever want to see progress in this game and things like this made better, they need to realize that this game is not classic right now and stop using that argument. Improvements that are not classic are all over p99.

This sort of post pushes my buttons, so wall of text inc.

A few things. First, you're just flat out wrong about some stuff. For instance, classic totally had XP penalties for classes.

Second, there are things that are unclassic because they can't be fixed. Levitate for boats for instance: boats were buggy as hell on live, and the devs had particular difficulty making them work here. On live if a player fell off a boat a paid GM or guide would come get them, but P99 doesn't always have that, so to avoid players being stuck in the middle of oceans they added levitate. Similarly some spells don't work the same (eg. all the Stamina ones) because P99 uses the Titanium client and it's impossible to have classic Stamina with it.

Third, some things are unclassic to be more classic. Was there an official swarm limit on live? No ... but there also wasn't Bards dominating entire zones (like P99 used to have). On live there was a limit, it just wasn't in the game: it was called shitty 1999-2001 Internet (and before you say "well I was the 1% that had a personal T1 line", great, but 99% of the players didn't, and the vast majority were on dial-up). This (and the cost) was also why 2-boxing was rare on live during the classic era.

Plus, another factor in several of the above issues is that we have an all volunteer staff, and that staff doesn't have time to constantly fish people out of the ocean or break up fights between swarm kiters and everyone else in OT.

Finally, and this is perhaps the most important point, the "B" in Blue stands for Beta. The Blue server is not the perfect classic server. It's not even the "perfect, except for all the factors I just mentioned" server. It's the "this is the best the dev team has so far" work-in-progress server. Unless you want to stop playing (devs can't play) and sign up to code with them the only way it's going to get better is patience (though players can help speed things up with well-reasoned, well-documented bug reports).

So, at the end of the day you get to choose. You can wish for unclassic features on a server that's been dedicated to being classic for as you've been playing on it (and then several times over). You can complain about all the unfinished bits, and all the things that can't be finished for one reason or another. You can ignore everything that's great about P99 and focus only on the negatives ...

... or you can enjoy your 100% free almost classic beta server, not expect a volunteer-run project to be perfect, and maybe even submit a helpful bug report every now and then.

Or you can just wait a few years for Green which will be "finished", and will be a lot more classic.

[kaev]

On live if a player fell off a boat a paid GM or guide would come get them, ...

Ahahahahahahahahaha! LOL, nope! Back in the day lowbies learned young to ride the boat naked. Many a corpse rotted in the Ocean of Tears.

[loramin]

Ahahahahahahahahaha! LOL, nope! Back in the day lowbies learned young to ride the boat naked. Many a corpse rotted in the Ocean of Tears.

Maybe by Velious (when I started) they were nicer. I don't remember it being fast, but I definitely remember being rescued at least once when a boat failed me (probably only once; after that I imagine I knew better and just gated or swam).

[fortior]

This sort of post pushes my buttons, so wall of text inc.

A few things. First, you're just flat out wrong about some stuff. For instance, classic totally had XP penalties for classes.

Yeah that's what they're saying, classic had class based XP penalties and this server doesn't (because they're lame)

[loramin]

Yeah that's what they're saying, classic had class based XP penalties and this server doesn't (because they're lame)

Since when do we not have class penalties? I mean, it's not like I check the leveling rate of two toons with different classes to see if one is leveling faster than the other very often ... but still the last I heard (which was that Velious patch which removed racial penalties) we did have class penalties.

If we don't I'm sure that's just a bug (remember Blue = Beta) that will get fixed eventually.

[fortior]

https://puu.sh/BvDEQ/44833aa870.png

Since 2015 according to this. Also I said it was because they were lame, but iirc they were actually removed at some point on live as well. I didn't have them when I played, but I didn't play in 1999.

[Dark_Magic]

I would agree with the OP’s suggestion if it weren’t for the “friend or buyer” bullshit. If you’re not there to complete the quest for your own toon, get lost.

[kaev]

I would agree with the OP’s suggestion if it weren’t for the “friend or buyer” bullshit. If you’re not there to complete the quest for your own toon, get lost.

That is the one thing i like best about the roll vs. the clickfest.

Problem with the clickfest was that ultra-low ping toon (not naming names) had huge advantage, I beat him once in maybe 30 tries. I benefited from the clickfest (he was in my guild) but I'm not comfortable with it. Roll as is now is such a huge improvement that it seems silly (and selfish!) to me to be whining about the details.

If you really care, then keep it amongst the players (no staff involvement!) and convince everybody to refuse to help kill for toons under level XX so lowbies would have to bring their own killforce. That would be legit, imo. This demand to have staff enforce a minimum level feels like the sort of entitlement attitude that makes so many of us despise the hanger-on zerglings that join the supposedly elite dkp guilds so they can boast about their fancy pixels they get for answering batphones. After all, levels in this game are primarily about time spent logged in, and how in hell can any rational person consider that anything special?

[anarchy_84]

In fairness, some “elite DKP guilds” are capable of completing content with low / adequate numbers. Don’t lump everyone into Aftermath’s ‘just throw corpses at it’ mentality.

[Xzorn]

Ahahahahahahahahaha! LOL, nope! Back in the day lowbies learned young to ride the boat naked. Many a corpse rotted in the Ocean of Tears.

I think your experience is shard based and not game wide.

Different servers had very different caliber of GMs and Guides.

On Bristlebane where I guided I doubt that was a common occurrence.

Our server had one of the more active GM/Guide event interactions with players of any server. There are still pics of our Halfling High Drive event on ZAM. An event which served no purpose other than to interact with the community.

By comparison the server I played on, Cazic-Thule had just about no interaction unless a petition or wedding was made and I witnessed 0 non-scripted events.

My point is not just that a person's experience could vary widely based on the shard they played on but the choice these devs made for Levitating boats was obviously a coded change to reduce overhead and policing of problems involved with boats. it would seem they're not above changes which make their lives easier and I wouldn't blame them for it. This is, in the end an emulation and will never be perfect.

[Nikkanu]

You'll never win a popular vote trying to take away casual's ability to get free loot from a roll.

[loramin]

On Bristlebane where I guided I doubt that was a common occurrence.

Our server had one of the more active GM/Guide event interactions with players of any server. There are still pics of our Halfling High Drive event on ZAM. An event which served no purpose other than to interact with the community.

As it happens I was on Bristlebane, so if you ever saved a stranded player who fell off a boat it might have been me.

Nice to "meet" one of our guides after all this time.

[aaezil]

staff should throttle everyones connection so we all connect at the same dial up speed.

Make EQ classic again

[Swish2]

If people are trying to use third party programs to get a hand in completed (and it's proven) it should be a permaban on the account.

Not sure what happened to Catherin but I don't think he lost his account for the Ragefire shenanigans a few years back.

[aaezil]

You do realize everyone at lodi + most variance spawns use third party programs/hardware for FTE, right? If staff were gonna ban for that you think they would have by now

[Harshmallow]

I would think a level 52 minimum would alleviate concerns of Nagy / Vox toons... I don't have one nor likely will. My main issue with lower levels being able to show up and roll is the impact to the wrist economy. Devalues all other options. Just my opinion though! Don't much care.

[AbstractVision]

I think the winner of the roll should be able to do whatever they want with their loot. Sell it, trade it, give it to a friend or guildie, collect multiple talismans cause you are a boss like that, whatever..

[Baler]

main only level 60 With at least 1 BIS already.

Only these people should be winning these rolls.

---
not a level 45 alt who won't play in a month.

[Xzorn]

As it happens I was on Bristlebane, so if you ever saved a stranded player who fell off a boat it might have been me.

Nice to "meet" one of our guides after all this time.

Oh wow, if it was between Kunark and Luclin eras then it's very possible.

My guide was Amingdale. I was a Bard Guide and got pretty into the role by telling stories to players and RP with then when they'd ask questions outside petitions.
Bugged the Exec GM for months to let me have a Lute but it was against policy for Guides to have any items.

Never did get my lute but it was always worth it when we could turn into monsters or other races with the GM and RP events against and with players. Everything these days is scripted. There was a magic back then we may never see again sadly.

[loramin]

Never did get my lute but it was always worth it when we could turn into monsters or other races with the GM and RP events against and with players. Everything these days is scripted. There was a magic back then we may never see again sadly.

Amen.

And yes, I did play during that time. Here are some random screenshots from Bristlebane GM events. I don't know if you remember, or were even involved in any of these, but hopefully they bring back memories.

Avatar of Love (Valentine's Day?):
https://i.imgur.com/9HwWam3.png
https://i.imgur.com/3a7Eprb.png

Bristlebane turning players into cyclops:
https://i.imgur.com/c9C0IAM.png
https://i.imgur.com/AV3Ed0D.png

Random Elves (I guess the GM characters did get gear):
https://i.imgur.com/j3vRk8p.png
https://i.imgur.com/fmwpscy.png

[wittles]

Sigh, why did I know the first response was going to be 'not classic'.

Neither is FTE. Neither is Sont's AE being a proc. Neither is the leashing rules in NToV that allow pulling to zone. Neither is the current state of the Sneak skill. Neither is half a dozen spells that don't work like classic. There are no class based XP penalties like classic. Levitate for boats to avoid collision issues didn't exist on live. Neither is FD's memblur. Restrictions on swarming did not exist, nor AOE targets. etc etc etc

If people ever want to see progress in this game and things like this made better, they need to realize that this game is not classic right now and stop using that argument. Improvements that are not classic are all over p99. It's 2018, it's time to continue to improve upon the game in other quality of life areas. Add the PoP trade skill UI to save everyone's carpal tunnel. Add Surefall glade TP spells to save the damn WK walks. Turn off coin weight, or fix the coin WR bags. Reduce timers so more people can actually see content and play the game. We all have jobs and kids and none of us can play 18hrs a day anymore.

I'm not saying change the game to be not like EQ, but adapt to the community and times to make some small changes that will help out the current player base in 2018.

Let's start with something small.... the scout timer. It's no drop gear, so the economy is not affected. It will be more like classic in the end, requiring you to drag a few groups out to kill the captain instead of a free shot twice a day. Nobody loses with that small change, and it enhances everyone's gameplay.

No.

Go play WoW.

[Xzorn]

FTE was classic.

It was actually just about the only rule involving mob ownership. It wasn't called FTE at the time but generally whoever tagged a mob first owns that mob including where that mob goes such as training / griefing.
What's not classic is having only one engagement per guild at any given time, camping and the zone line races.

Camping was a player created concept that was never upheld by GMs on live and the other rules are obviously put in place to make a single server option more bearable since a single zerg guild would otherwise dominate.

To my knowledge, none of these were player made agreements. They're Dev enforced rules that are not classic.

There are many coded examples that are not classic either. One in particular that has been address before yet I still find somewhat potent is the Endurance stat not working.

Either way non-classic changes both rules and code are made for a better overall experience and scout is something more than half the server likely takes part in. I don't agree with OP's solutions. I feel a simple level cap should be coded so scout Ignores players not of that level. Planar zones work this way and most Guild raids work this way.
Creating a level cap will lower the number of people who roll on Scout naturally by weeding out players who are not actually invested in the characters they're rolling with.

[Ghostly]

Either way non-classic changes both rules and code are made for a better overall experience and scout is something more than half the server likely takes part in.

Half the server takes part in Scout??

[kaev]

Half the server takes part in Scout??

hehe, that would imply truly epic levels of boxing

[Xzorn]

Half the server takes part in Scout??

I don't mean at the same time and that should be obvious.
I mean Scout is something likely half the server population has taken part in at some point or still does takes part.

It's not a simple thing that affects 40 people out of 1200. It affects many people who play this game and should not be trivialized. Just because someone has their VP key doesn't mean rules on camping Pained Soul should not be strictly enforced or revised based on future conflicts.

That's kinda what's wrong with Scout roll. It's a selfish roll. In by that I mean people engaged in it only care how it affects them and not other players. Once they're done they don't care anymore either. That's why players have started bringing lvl 30's and 40's to the roll. They don't care how it affects others. They just want their pixels.

Sometimes rules need to be revised, ie Fear Golems.

[aaezil]

60 people at scout tonight

Very normal should stay the same amirite

[misterbonkers]

60 people at scout tonight

Very normal should stay the same amirite

i won it, so it's perfectly fine as is

[Swish2]

i won it, so it's perfectly fine as is

See you tomorrow for your next character and his attempt at winning the roll <3

[Jimjam]

See you tomorrow for your next character and his attempt at winning the roll <3

It's an excellent mechanic to incentivise players to keep helping others even after their main is fully scouted out.

[Xzorn]

i won it, so it's perfectly fine as is

Gratz Timorous Deep nomad.
0 - 68
5 months and counting.

What's sad is I ran the numbers with an avg of 40 players at scout and highest I've seen of 72. My loss rate isn't outside reason. About 18% probability of 0 results with 68 attempts.

Over the past 5 months of rolling I've watched the avg of participating players continue to increase because the avg level range of rollers is decreasing. So the odds are only getting worse in spite of a winner every 10 hours. More if you count 2 EQs a month.

A Level restriction should really be put in place for this quest.

[Freakish]

If you don't like the lvl 30 winning a scout, don't help him kill it. That's what I did. I would help any one of appropriate level but I don't care one whit about your underleveled alt. If those people want it they can bring their own force. Enough people with that attitude and your lvl 30s won't be killing captain and the problem takes care of itself.

[Quizlop]

Give Scout a 25% chance to skip, and a 25% chance to spawn a flurry drake instead.

[Nexii]

I still don't understand why the rolloff isn't after Captain dies.

[Phenyo]

I still don't understand why the rolloff isn't after Captain dies.

Spawning the captain requires a set of tools to be consumed in the turn in

[Nexii]

Spawning the captain requires a set of tools to be consumed in the turn in

True but they take like 2 minutes to go get for a porter bound at scout

[radda]

True but they take like 2 minutes to go get for a porter bound at scout

For a porter

[Sadiki]

True but they take like 2 minutes to go get for a porter bound at scout
You expect a P99 player to turn in their tools and voluntarily waste 2 minutes of their time getting new ones?

[Nexii]

You expect a P99 player to turn in their tools and voluntarily waste 2 minutes of their time getting new ones?

Eh it could work still. Let them roll early and go do the tool restock while the rest kill it

[Zuranthium]

LOL, PvE server.

[Wonkie]

LOL, PvE server.

this "pvper" attacked me once. i laughed at him and told him to knock it off.

[sinmaster]

back to click fest!